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Author Topic: 🌟🚀 [Pre-ANN] AZULIK: adding privacy to DAG fee-less instant transactions 🌟🚀  (Read 7180 times)
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January 13, 2018, 09:52:49 PM
Last edit: March 09, 2018, 07:37:38 AM by AzulikProject
 #1

Introduction
https://image.ibb.co/gJoyWS/AZL_mockup_v1.png
What is AZULIK ?

Azulik aims to be Raiblocks with privacy.
We may make some changes to the Raiblocks protocol, but in the end, we want to offer a decentralised, fee-less, anonymous, and instant cryptocurrency.

At this stage we confirm that Colin's words were right, it's not possible to apply privacy to XRB as we kown it today ( zkSNARKs).

Adding the privacy feature is harder than it may look, simply applying a ZK-SNARKs protocol (the underlying protocol of Zcash) would make the transaction time increase a lot.

That why we are currently working on two approaches:
  • Having an optional privacy feature, allowing to have instant transaction or privacy
      
  • WPI (witness-indistinguishable proof ) or recursive zkSNARKs approach which for us would be the best way to have both instant transaction and privacy

See below and our whitepaper for details.

Who are we ?

We are two colleagues, two engineers working at a famous tech company. One of our friends in the company will join us in the near future to work on the project management, marketing, and exchange listings.

Here’s a little bit about us:

There is nothing really sexy about it. We are rather young guys who graduated from very good universities. The skinny one is better at C++ than he is with girls and the fat one doesn't remember the last time he played a sport.

You won't know more about us than that, though, because our company's compliance rules don't allow outside of business activities. Hence, we wouldn't take the risk of being fired.

We have been in the blockchain and crypto world for years. We followed the development of XRB and we have been fascinated with Colin's work. Especially this epic thread that none of us understand…Don't worry, we are joking!

Why Azulik ?

We like Colin, he is certainly super smart, but we have read somewhere (and they were reported words) that adding privacy to Raiblocks wasn't possible.

When we saw that, we thought: “Challenge accepted!”

We started to work on it. We dug a bit into the problem and we would like to offer a potential solution we found.

Yes, we aim to build a decentralized, fee-less, and instant cryptocurrency.

But, most of all, we believe that privacy is an amazing touch to add to it.

Give us more details !

In a nutshell we show that applying Zero Knowledge proof (ZK-SNARKs) to DAG is something feasible. At this stage we believe that the privacy feature and instant transaction aren't compatible, however we think about making private transaction an option allowing to handle instant transaction or full privacy. But for sure it's a more complex problem than just apply SNARKs to Raiblocks, our next direction is to check the feasability to apply witness-indistinguishable proof.

Quote
A witness-indistinguishable proof (WIP) is a variant of a zero-knowledge proof for languages in NP. In a typical zero-knowledge proof of a statement, the prover will use a witness for the statement as input to the protocol, and the verifier will learn nothing other than the truth of the statement. In a WIP, this zero-knowledge condition is weakened, and the only guarantee is that the verifier will not be able to distinguish between provers that use different witnesses. In particular, the protocol may leak information about the set of all witnesses, or even leak the witness that was used when there is only one possible witness.

Witness-indistinguishable proof systems were first introduced by Feige and Shamir.[1] Unlike zero-knowledge proofs, they remain secure when multiple proofs are being performed concurrently.
(wikipedia)

We believe that applying WIP to Raiblocks could be the solution to have both instant and fee-less transaction. Furthermore given to Witness-Indistinguishability Against Quantum Adversaries it would also be possible to make Azulik quantum resistant, which is currently not our priority.

For more details check our whitepaper first draft by clicking here. We know it's still very light as we have been mainly working on the privacy feature for the moment but expect updates frequently, it's mainly a summarize of a US army protocol encryption that we have been testing and from the results are below .

UPDATE:

First of all, thank you for all of your messages. They are really documented and very interesting. We will give further details below:


Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks (3), recursive-ZK-Snakrs (2) (linearisation), and WPI (1).

As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.

https://image.ibb.co/d3DjA7/1516471445_finalresultsazulik.jpg

On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.


So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.

Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.

First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If  I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .

Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.

It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is  equal or higher to the number of  users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back.  

So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s  still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.



https://image.ibb.co/dLVmOS/1516527377_azulikproject.jpg


The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.

Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.

Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.

We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.


To summarise:

- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free

What next:

Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.

We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.



Here’s what’s next:

  • Finishing a proper whitepaper and public release of the Github the 16th of March
  • End of donation the 16th of March
  • Wallet development
  • Testnet open the first week of april
  • Official launch in the begining of May

Distribution:

It's very early to speak about the distribution as we expect months of work ahead, especially because we are busy with our daily work at the office, but we would like to find a very fun, fair, and new way to distribute Azulik. Any ideas?


Can i help ?

Of course you can, we are always interested in people having expertise and wanting to share, do not hesitate to contact us and give us your toughs, concerns, comments or complaints. If you have no expertise in this field hence you can motivate us if you are as excited by the project as we are.  

Donation:

We will update the list (or tell us for remaining anonymous), all donation will be very appreciated and we will remember it when we finally release Azulik! (and we secretly expect to leave our job and work full time on Azulik as it's much more interesting) .

Currently we haven't really dig the distribution process, it's not the top priority as of today. We have to define the supply, the part given to the contributors, the team and through faucet.
 
We will study all of your propositions, and the preliminary supply will be 666 millions coins.


All of this above isn't definitive and could be updated. Furthermore all donation should be considered as donation nothing more


At the moment, we want Azulik to work as soon as possible.



Thanks for reading.

Azulik Project

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January 13, 2018, 09:59:40 PM
 #2

So basically this is simply a copy of RaiBlocks with a privacy feature added? hmm look like a very interesting project.

I'll be waiting for the whitepaper and more information regarding this, sounds pretty promising!

By the way, what is the total supply of this coin? Thank you dev.
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January 13, 2018, 10:05:12 PM
Last edit: January 13, 2018, 10:35:39 PM by AzulikProject
 #3

So basically this is simply a copy of RaiBlocks with a privacy feature added? hmm look like a very interesting project.

I'll be waiting for the whitepaper and more information regarding this, sounds pretty promising!

By the way, what is the total supply of this coin? Thank you dev.


Indeed it is, adding the privacy feature is harder than it may look, simply applying a ZK-SNARKs protocol would make the transaction time increase a lot.
That why we are currently working on two approaches:

  • Having an optional privacy feature, allowing to have instant transaction or privacy
  • WPI approach which for us would be the best way to have both instant transaction and privacy


Regarding the total supply it will depend of two factors:

  • The distribution way used
  • The community though, as on our side we believe a higher supply will make the token price lower and easier to use on daily basis in real life.
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January 13, 2018, 10:07:16 PM
 #4

I will be following this project,I think privacy coins are going to be big this year (also DAG coins)
In case you ever needed translations,I'm reserving Turkish translations.
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January 13, 2018, 10:14:54 PM
 #5

Your preliminary work looks very impressive, i like the way you explain that simply adding ZK-SNARKs won't solve the problem and you are really thinking about an alternative.

I will closely follow this project which seem very promising and professional.

www.bitairt.io - World First Artificial Intelligence Artist on the Blockchain - Start to collect !
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January 13, 2018, 10:17:33 PM
 #6

I will be following this project,I think privacy coins are going to be big this year (also DAG coins)
In case you ever needed translations,I'm reserving Turkish translations.

Thank you very much, it's highly appreciated.
We will be in touch when we will need translation. Currently our main priorities are the whitepaper and making good progress on the code and share everything with you.

Your preliminary work looks very impressive, i like the way you explain that simply adding ZK-SNARKs won't solve the problem and you are really thinking about an alternative.

I will closely follow this project which seem very promising and professional.

Thank you for your support, let's make it happen ! The sooner the better.
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January 13, 2018, 10:21:27 PM
 #7

Great idea guys!
Will it be POS or POW or POS/POW? Are there any thoughts on mining algos/masternodes etc.
I was too late to reserve Turkish translations, so I am reserving Czech, if you need.
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January 13, 2018, 10:21:58 PM
 #8

I have followed your project and I am quite excited, I need some more background information on the upcoming activities of the project to decide on investing in it. Hope you can share some more information here so that other investors can follow and support your project.
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January 13, 2018, 10:22:47 PM
 #9

Hi can you make this coin possible for mining. It will get more support.
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January 13, 2018, 10:24:19 PM
 #10

Two engineers sounds interesting, but the roadmap must be huge?
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January 13, 2018, 10:30:56 PM
 #11

Great idea guys!
Will it be POS or POW or POS/POW? Are there any thoughts on mining algos/masternodes etc.
I was too late to reserve Turkish translations, so I am reserving Czech, if you need.


It will be DPOS with a very quick POW for sending and receiving coins in order to avoid spamming as it will be fee-less. Thank you for raising your hand to help we really like that !


I have followed your project and I am quite excited, I need some more background information on the upcoming activities of the project to decide on investing in it. Hope you can share some more information here so that other investors can follow and support your project.
Feel free to ask any question, regarding our very next steps we want to finish our whitepaper, and make good progress on the code. We will of course share all these steps with our community.

Hi can you make this coin possible for mining. It will get more support.
Unfortunatly the coin won't be mineable, we'll try to get support by having an amazing product, fee-less, instant, green and anonymous.

Two engineers sounds interesting, but the roadmap must be huge?
Indeed it's huge, especially the challenging part of keeping both instant transaction and privacy, we will face a huge amount of work. To be honest, we like that, the issue may come from our wifes as we currenly work remotly together late in the night.
That's why we plan to rent an office for our weekend of work in order to be in a peaceful atmosphere and spend our weekend working on it as much as we can.
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January 13, 2018, 11:01:55 PM
 #12

I had an old monero wallet, i sent you the whole balance as i believe it will be more useful.

Very proud to be the first donator to the Azulik project !!!

www.bitairt.io - World First Artificial Intelligence Artist on the Blockchain - Start to collect !
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January 13, 2018, 11:12:37 PM
 #13

I had an old monero wallet, i sent you the whole balance as i believe it will be more useful.

Very proud to be the first donator to the Azulik project !!!

Thank you, i will add you to the list of donator.
We will keep the funds in the dev wallet and not touch it, we will justify each use we make with your funds such as our office rental and hardware things for our new office or a company to work on the website...
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January 14, 2018, 12:06:42 AM
 #14

I'll dig the WP and donate accordingly.
Keep us updated frequently.
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January 14, 2018, 12:16:59 PM
 #15

We have made some update in our whitepaper.

Our very next step is to provide your our simulation results, to show you that applying ZK-SNARKs would make transaction slow whereas applying WPI would make it almost instant.

If it goes well we would be the first to apply privacy to DAG-Block-lattice and among the very first to offer almost instant anonymous transaction. That's very exciting.
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January 14, 2018, 12:48:37 PM
 #16


Azulik aims to be Raiblocks with privacy.
We may make some changes to the Raiblocks protocol, but in the end, we want to offer a decentralised, fee-less, anonymous, and instant cryptocurrency.

Who are we ?

We are two colleagues, two engineers working at a famous tech company. One of our friends in the company will join us in the near future to work on the project management, marketing, and exchange listings.

Here’s a little bit about us:

There is nothing really sexy about it. We are rather young guys who graduated from very good universities. The skinny one is better at C++ than he is with girls and the fat one doesn't remember the last time he played a sport.

You won't know more about us than that, though, because our company's compliance rules don't allow outside of business activities. Hence, we wouldn't take the risk of being fired.

We have been in the blockchain and crypto world for years. We followed the development of XRB and we have been fascinated with Colin's work. Especially this epic thread that none of us understand…Don't worry, we are joking!

Why Azulik ?

We like Colin, he is certainly super smart, but we have read somewhere (and they were reported words) that adding privacy to Raiblocks wasn't possible.

When we saw that, we thought: “Challenge accepted!”

We started to work on it. We dug a bit into the problem and we would like to offer a potential solution we found.

Yes, we aim to build a decentralized, fee-less, and instant cryptocurrency.

But, most of all, we believe that privacy is an amazing touch to add to it.

Give us more details !
In a nutshell we show that applying Zero Knowledge proof (ZK-SNARKs) to DAG is something feasible. At this stage we believe that the privacy feature and instant transaction aren't compatible, however we think about making private transaction an option allowing to handle instant transaction or full privacy. But for sure it's a more complex problem than just apply SNARKs to Raiblocks, our next direction is to check the feasability to apply witness-indistinguishable proof.

Quote
A witness-indistinguishable proof (WIP) is a variant of a zero-knowledge proof for languages in NP. In a typical zero-knowledge proof of a statement, the prover will use a witness for the statement as input to the protocol, and the verifier will learn nothing other than the truth of the statement. In a WIP, this zero-knowledge condition is weakened, and the only guarantee is that the verifier will not be able to distinguish between provers that use different witnesses. In particular, the protocol may leak information about the set of all witnesses, or even leak the witness that was used when there is only one possible witness.

Witness-indistinguishable proof systems were first introduced by Feige and Shamir.[1] Unlike zero-knowledge proofs, they remain secure when multiple proofs are being performed concurrently.
(wikipedia)

We believe that applying WIP to Raiblocks could be the solution to have both instant and fee-less transaction. Furthermore given to Witness-Indistinguishability Against Quantum Adversaries it would also be possible to make Azulik quantum resistant, which is currently not our priority.

For more details check our whitepaper first draft. We know it's still very light as we have been mainly working on the privacy feature for the moment but expect updates frequently.


Here’s what’s next:

  • Finishing a proper whitepaper
  • Discussing other potential solutions or improvements with you guys
  • In the meantime, working on the coding
  • Sharing advancements with you on Github
  • Working a bit on the marketing (website, logo, etc.)
  • A functional wallet

Distribution:

It's very early to speak about the distribution as we expect months of work ahead, especially because we are busy with our daily work at the office, but we would like to find a very fun, fair, and new way to distribute Azulik. Any ideas?


Can i help ?

Of course you can, we are always interested in people having expertise and wanting to share, do not hesitate to contact us and give us your toughs, concerns, comments or complaints. If you have no expertise in this field hence you can motivate us if you are as excited by the project as we are.  

Donation:

If you guys are excited, liked the small piece of work we offer you today, and want to see more, or if you can't wait for the release of Azulik and you want us to reveal our identity and leave our job to work full-time on it, do not hesitate to donate.

We will update the list (or tell us for remaining anonymous), all donation will be very appreciated and we will remember it when we finally release Azulik! (and we secretly expect to leave our job and work full time on Azulik as it's much more interesting) .

  • Bitcoin: 1E6HaTHMwdWsQEPHyMoiNHyxTjKzAXC8sU
  • Litecoin: LQcsBj8e9jHHdFyG6cZLCzPpzC5ydnJQKj
  • Ethereum: 0x21D0241bf0aB261D52c10767c89Bc9F764472167
  • Monero: 44MyZttQH891CTTA8Gg71Cdh68zfUs28WGGynFzcpePiLuE2weVenAVRGfFzjzcusKe2qYUYCGqXk31 mNjG3QqkLKMdm7UU
  • Raiblocks: xrb_1dtmp1g9rfkusja6ogpktazgt846kj4ett6afwowpu8xz6wq8kimergzkrug

Thanks for reading.

Azulik Project

What about Stone project, which is exactly what you're saying you want to do?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2581762.new;topicseen#new
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January 14, 2018, 12:55:40 PM
 #17

Quote

What about Stone project, which is exactly what you're saying you want to do?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2581762.new;topicseen#new

Stone project argues:
Quote
I've been experimenting with the idea of using zkSNARKs

At this stage we confirm that Colin's words were right, it's not possible to apply privacy to XRB as we kown it today ( zkSNARKs).

Adding the privacy feature is harder than it may look, simply applying a ZK-SNARKs protocol (the underlying protocol of Zcash) would make the transaction time increase a lot.

That why we are currently working on two approaches:

  
  • Having an optional privacy feature, allowing to have instant transaction or privacy
      
  • WPI (witness-indistinguishable proof ) approach which for us would be the best way to have both instant transaction and privacy

We hope to confirm very soon that using WPI would highly decrease the transaction time. We are currently working on simulation right now.

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January 14, 2018, 01:05:35 PM
 #18

Quote

What about Stone project, which is exactly what you're saying you want to do?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2581762.new;topicseen#new

Stone project argues:
Quote
I've been experimenting with the idea of using zkSNARKs

At this stage we confirm that Colin's words were right, it's not possible to apply privacy to XRB as we kown it today ( zkSNARKs).

Adding the privacy feature is harder than it may look, simply applying a ZK-SNARKs protocol (the underlying protocol of Zcash) would make the transaction time increase a lot.

That why we are currently working on two approaches:

  
  • Having an optional privacy feature, allowing to have instant transaction or privacy
      
  • WPI (witness-indistinguishable proof ) approach which for us would be the best way to have both instant transaction and privacy

We hope to confirm very soon that using WPI would highly decrease the transaction time. We are currently working on simulation right now.



I'll then follow both projects, as private dag based crypto seems like the future of crypto imo.
Good luck to you both, and keep us updated!
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January 14, 2018, 01:11:44 PM
 #19

Discord channel?
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January 14, 2018, 01:13:57 PM
 #20

What about Stone project, which is exactly what you're saying you want to do?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2581762.new;topicseen#new

I'm well invested in XRB and in love with the technology.

Stone project isn't legit at all:

I think i have been the first one to raise the accusation that Stone was only a copy and paste from Wikipedia. Post #31

Since, someone uploaded this video


We must be carefull with Azulik project as well, but at least here:

  • they quote Wikipedia and don't try to hide it like Stone
  • they have a draft of whitepaper with original content
  • they don't say we will take XRB protocol and add zkSNARKS whithout any other explanation.
  • they offer a new approach with WIP and optional privacy
  • they want to discuss with the community and get challenged with their approach.

I have been so disapointed by Stone and Manta but i want to believe it's possible to add privacy to Raiblocks.
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