Bitcoin Forum

R9 thru R12 has reached the minimum hashrate which was promised. We're still awaiting software improvements to chainminer, which we hope will help hashrate as well.

R9-R12 have been merged into one big mega pool and will all be paid out the same (as well as compensated for lost hashrate as we waited to get to our minimum hashrate.

Therefore: To reduce clutter on the GB forum and to simplify R9-12 discussions, please move your questions and discussions for these 4 rounds to this thread.

Thanks.

Great job.  Looking forward to even more :)  Can we get an explanation of how the lost hashrate will be compensated?  Really appreciate how hard you guys work on this.

thank you.

 i see it is at 3.35 th or so.    and I see we are at 14 plus btc.  now it is early in the morning in NJ.  I know we were not at half power from the first day up to now.  we were a better then half power on avg.  if we were half power we would be short 14 coins..  So I know the compensation is under 14 coins. I also know it is more then 5 coins since we average less then 75% power.


 if we average 50%   14 / .5 = 28 we are owed 14 coins.    if we averaged 75%   14 / .75 = 18.67 we are owed 4.67 coins.

So we are owed less then   14 coins and more then 4.67 coins.      I am sure some one can get the right number   in the next few days.

 BTW  BTC is 342 usd at coin base

Thanks for the updates and new thread. Everything good when you keep letting us know what is going on! :)

I will be compensating the GB's for a total of 7 BTC to be added to the payout pool, to be paid out the 15th.

Based on my number of lost coins and that the hashrate started at 33% and ramped up to ~80 till yesterday, I think 7 coins is fair. Please let me know what yall think of this, I am open to ideas. Now this is in addition to no hosting fees till Dec 15th. I cant thank yall for being patient with me, been a long trip.

7 is close enough thanks!

I made a promise- best I can do is fulfil it :)

I'm good with 7, thanks bob.

ditto, thanks Bob! I am sure most of us have lost some money in these group buys on the forum, glad this one is legit and panning out.

The fact that we are getting ANY compensation is what makes this Co-Op best one out there

Thanks guys

For some reason my calculations show that at 3.33 thrash we should have mined 30 coins over 9 days at current difficulty. Except we actually were mining at 390 million difficulty for the first few days so it should have been closer to 33. I don't think BTC guild has been yielding that badly so we must have been under 50% hash rate on average. From what I can tell the compensation would bring us up from approximately 50% to about two thirds of calculated returns.  But there's no way all the equipment could have been up instantly on Nov 1 so if you drop the first day the numbers look better.

I ran the calculations another way and basically we lost about a day and a half vs mining full force from nov 1 with the compensation so I think it's nice and fair since the original promise was that it'd all ship by nov 1

Exactly. We had I think ~2.5 days on the old diff, then the remainder on the new diff. Although technically speaking R11/12 didnt start till monday. 7 coins seemed a fair and even compensation, in addition to the free hosting.

Agree with your statements.  I think 7 is a very nice compensation. I remember when I joined all I expected was shipping by Nov 1.  I had hoped it would be up and hashing  quickly and it was. Thanks to the GB team for being honest, open and fair. All you guys put your own time in on these GBs and I appreciate that time.

Thank you!

M

Your very welcome, we do our best to please.

+7 :)

I need the payout address for two orders

289
325

Please send me a PM w/ the email you used as well as the payout address.


Who doesn't like stats?

Did you know there are 66 unique payout addresses in R9-12?

24 Hour Earnings 4.11256301
Heh
heh
heh

Smiles all around! I noticed the hash rate up a lil more also  ;D

Looking forward to the mid month payout :)

I think until I get the boards back from RMA, I will be keeping my personal 3 modal Jupiter hashing for the GB, should mean we get an extra 200-300ghash.

Thats a very generous thought bobsag3. I hope you do keep it with us!

Thanks.

M

thanks bob.

7 sounds fair. Thanks Bob.

Ill probably pay it in to the address on the 14th, so when Thomas does payouts on the 15th they will all be included

Can't wait!  Every day I'm watching the charts in fear and anticipation hehehe.
Thanks for making things right with the 7 BTC.  Hopefully the RMAs come back soon.  Was it indeed a bad board blowing the PSUs?

No, Im just an idiot sometimes. Luckily, I now buy 3x as many PSU as I need.

Hi, Can you post the updated spreadsheet for shares and payout address please?

I believe these are the ones being used for now
http://www.dzminercoop.com/?page_id=470

Thanks

good guy bob to the rescue!!

Hash seems to be falling all day, new boards in?

Strange, the hashrate is half what it was yesterday.  It's currently only 4.8 Gh/s per share.

Yeah Im rolling software updates out, and weeding out the last few bad boards. Takes forever for the hastrate to catch back up

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArdD1NXRwJNSdGxRQ0oyX29XbjlsYVZFMEx5bEJPUXc&usp=sharing#gid=0

And we are back above 3thash.

So it's close to or under 8GHS/share. Hope r13 gives better results!

Totals (All Active Workers)   3,230.50 GH/s

Not quite up to full speed yet.

Hashing looks like its evened out, And all the bad boards have been pulled, and shipped back for RMA. Untill they come back, I will be keeping the Jupiter on hashing to maintain advertised speeds.

Extra 7BTC was paid into the payout fund, and will be distributed with first dividend tonight or tomorrow.

 :)

Probably not, repairs on the boards are taking longer than expected. Will probably have to do a full refund/transfer.

The payout will more than likely be tonight as I have to get a procedure done tomorrow and will be slightly sedated, not sure how I'll be feeling on the 15th so might as well do it a day early.

I wish to best for you on the Medical end bro.  I just got back from my doctor today he removed stitches on my back. I am doing okay I hope you do just as well as I have>

I'll take the refund in that case. hope thomas and philip feel better!

What are our transfer options? Are there any rounds still available to transfer into?

 :)

Well there was R15/16... until those sold out about as fast as I could order them. We are looking into other options- but rest assured no coins were actually spent, so refunds are always an option.

Updated the link so its easier to view

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArdD1NXRwJNSdGxRQ0oyX29XbjlsYVZFMEx5bEJPUXc&usp=sharing#gid=0

Payout issued a little early, not sure if I'll be able to do it tomorrow so did it today.

The site plugin shows a different number as after the transfer was done the pool found some blocks.

https://blockchain.info/tx/1cd5ee0de19cee701adda0b2de85f45a8302636f920ae318087a41a3d5ddfacd

USD Value of mined coins = $16,679.07

Edit*

Forgot to mention

Total Mined Coins for Payout: 39.84231837
Total Coins before fees for Payout: 39.87285772

Yes that's right we mined less coins then the payout.

thanks ! looks like I got 1.09098806 for 11 shares.  so this is about  0.099180732  a share after fees



If I were to sell this right now on coinbase I would get about 464 usd.  my usd spent was 1353     so a few more weeks would get me close to out for this group.

This group I will try selling every btc earned on coinbase  as fast as possible.

And the next diff doesnt look bad. 590m from 509m is nothing like the last one.

Rock on!  Thanks!

Soon I will have a whole btc.  :)

yeah  fingers crossed but r5 + r6  are a winner  and r9 + r10 + r11 +  r12  may join that club very soon.

Forgot to mention

Total Mined Coins for Payout: 39.84231837
Total Coins before fees for Payout: 39.87285772

Yes that's right we mined less coins then the payout.

Thanks to bob correct?  

 Oh I cashed this in  as soon as I could on coinbase.    


 I am due 453 usd.  dropped from 464 above due to a miners fee and a small rate exchange drop.  

 this r9-12  I will cash in all btc asap at coinbase.  


 I want to have a easy trail to show profit or loss in terms of usd.
 11 shares at 123 = 1353 in and so far 453 back  down 900 usd.  but this was only 6 or 7 days of mining .

 in the next 2 weeks with luck  we should do higher btc since nov 30th is 16 days of mining.   like bob said next diff will not be as bad maybe 15%- 20% not 35 %.

in USD we could be even by dec 1st. fingers crossed.

Nope bobsag3's is included in total mined, the extra 0.03 is earned by the coop, we know how to make money.

Cashed mine out at Mt Gox for a nice return :)  If BTC stays high and the payouts keep coming anywhere close to this it will be a great deal!  Already recovered about 1/3 of my investment.

Thanks for getting the payout done Thomas_s  ;D

Have you gotten your USD out of Mt Gox? Hell I gave up after a month of trying.

Yeah multiple times... ACH to my checking account.

What country are you in? If you don't want to post this publicly I'd be fine with a PM.

US... not sure if its harder elsewhere.

Looks like a reboot may be necessary or maybe Bobsag3 is working on them?

http://www.dzminercoop.com/?page_id=302

Yeah definitely slower

Yeah Im getting some hashrate issues from one of the stacks... Has been going on and off for the last day. I spent a few hours this morning trying some fixes, and waiting to hear back about tweaking the software. Ive already set them to do a rolling reboot again.. so it will fluctuate the next few hours

got my payment :) -- you need help with ChainMiner?

Hmm, the hashrate is still reading at like 2.8Thash.  I guess BitFury boards really are hard to keep running reliably.  Did they give you a timeframe on the RMA'd boards?

They should be sending  ~35 replacement boards + fixed boards from the first 2 batches this week, so by friday. I will probably get it up to 3.5thash and leave at that for the remainder in order to make up for this week.

Looks like you kicked her in the pants again Bobsag3. Looking good!

It looks like there was a half working Pi in one of the stacks, causing it to go nuts

Anyone else notice that with current BTC prices we basically ROI'd already? :)  Not sure they will stay this high but that's still great news.

I have been watching that!  As you said only good if you cash out at these 800 or higher prices, your currency comes back pretty quick. A person could get their currency investment back then hoard the rest :)..

speaking of 800 or more  coins are at 852. usd  .  Today is the 23rd waiting till the 30th or 1st for payday will be hard to do.

It makes me itch a little too  :).

If nobody converted their coins yet the Mootinator plugin shows we crossed into positive USD territory today.  ;D   Still have a ways to go on BTC though..

http://www.dzminercoop.com/?page_id=302

 I reached the point that I just cash out at coinbase as soon as possible .   while it does not max out profit it safe-guards against a crash.  

Between all of the btc worlds for me, I am in  the all profit world.  so conversion to cash is almost all I do now.  while I may not get rich this way I like the lower stress levels.

I agree with your philosophy of taking profit and guarding against risk. I had the oportunity to lock in a 30% profit on silver when it was up and I waited to long. So I am a silver stacker now :/ .  

It is always easy to say buy and hold. Its hard to see a nice profit and just let it sit there. Profit is for the taking but then again I generally go against the grain of the BTC purist. After all, they should be happy when I sell, its more back out on the market for them to buy.  :)

I don't really endorse one way or the other, it's just less work calculating USD ROI based on holding the coins =)

It'd be kinda fun to integrate with the user accounts/payout spreadsheet so you can see a summary of your own shares using whichever method you prefer instead of the entire GB.

Hi mootinator.

I really appreciate your contribution to the DZGBs.  Its really awesome we have a way to track what the gear is doing.  I hope you did not take my comments the wrong way.  I would have done the same way you did. Its plenty good enough. We each are responsible for our own profit loss calculations.

On another note, If you were bored and had time, would you be interested in putting a graph mirroring the BTCguild graph on the plugin? I dont know if its even possible but it would be cool.

Thanks for your time man.

Best Regards,

+1 for these ideas.

There is actually a hashrate graph implemented (it wouldn't be exactly like the BTC guild one), it would just have to be included in the page, I'm not sure how closely it would mirror the BTCGuild graph though.

Sample page:
http://mootinator.com/groupbuy-summary/

next payment date on the 30th?

30th if we go early, 1st if on time.

What hapends with boards? Hashrate is the same from last days.

When they were first set up some were damaged, a jupiter was pointed at the pool to try to keep hashrate at what was advertised today when the boards are set up R9-12 will be operating at what it should be on BA boards.

Did more boards or Pi break?

Hashrate down to 2225.518 Gh/s

No active boards were broken, he is more than likely adding boards to the string which tends to disconnect a few at the same time, it takes a little while for them to get back to full speed.

Why did the values on the plugin get reset.

We showed 71.xxx coin earlier. Nothing now.

Regards,

M

Happens from time to time. Usually fixes itself on the next update. Presumably an uncaught error reading the wallet balance from blockchain.info.

delete

Just because my timing is so perfect, I had to look at it right then so I could panic before I went to bed, LOL.

Thanks Mootinator.

I've been putting the current values as I can into the spreadsheet, so you can see a semi up to date version

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArdD1NXRwJNSdGxRQ0oyX29XbjlsYVZFMEx5bEJPUXc&usp=sharing

Earned NMC       168.73450200

Its time to sell...  ;)

edit: was

it is the 29th  we moved up to about 75.58 btc   so minus the 39.88  paid out we have about  35.7 minus fees we have a bit over 35 btc for payout


so a share would be 35/400 = .0875  with maybe one more set of btc to add to that.    but .0875 at 1100 a btc is around  96.25 usd .

 in usd terms we will have our usd back and then some with the next payment.  


To Dz Coop keep up the good work!!

Is the payout tonight or tomorrow?

I've actually kept the spreadsheet relatively up to date with current mined coins so no real math is involved.

Payout will be on 12/1/2013 (it was early on the 15th because I had to be sedated and wasn't sure i'd be able to do them)

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Worker 1 Hash Rate       1077.216 Gh/s
Worker 2 Hash Rate       0 Gh/s
Worker 3 Hash Rate       534.179 Gh/s

What happened with ?

All the time hashrate is below 3336 GH/s

Looks like they rebooted them earlier and they are climbing back up.  Not sure what you mean, they have bent over backwards to deliver the promised hash and have refunded us for lost hashing time.

BTC guild shows ~1.5thash.... yet all the pis are 100%, we should be at 3.3thash. Ill look into it.

delete

Has to run on a PI, and the run currently Runs a highly modified by BA version of chainminer.

delete

12629   ---   1,358,080   In Progress
12628   0.18627%   2,241,152   2013-11-30 05:34 PM
12627   0.16445%   1,977,152   2013-11-30 04:40 PM
12626   0.10132%   1,219,392   2013-11-30 03:46 PM
12625   0.09961%   1,205,760   2013-11-30 02:51 PM
12624   0.10096%   1,219,072   2013-11-30 01:57 PM
12623   0.09995%   1,199,552   2013-11-30 01:02 PM
12622   0.18523%   2,231,104   2013-11-30 12:09 PM
12621   0.19960%   2,405,504   2013-11-30 11:15 AM

Like wtf? By the time I was up and got over to the warehouse, they fixed themselves. Our 24 hour earnings never changed tho...

yep  this is what I have seen on other pools such as bit minter  with the bit minter java client  and with the bfgminer client.     now a day or 2 ago bitminter had 8 or 9 stale mmc blocks in a row.  so these under hash/ vanished block bugs have occurred before.

He just means that the hashrate isn't really hitting the promised minimum most of the time, usually it's hanging out a little below what it should really be at, even when most of the stacks are supposedly working I've only seen it get up to about 3200Ghash.  Right now it looks like it's at 7Ghash per share on the site.  I think the bitfury boards have been a lot more problematic than expected, everyone was hoping that they'd be overclockable to 10Ghash a share but the boards are so unstable it's nearly impossible to get even 8.34 per share.  I haven't actually seen only bitfury boards hashing away at over 8.34ghash per share, the only time we ever hit that hashrate was with the KnC Jupiters thrown in to hit the goal rate.  Hopefully whatever software or hardware issues get worked out, but so far it seems like bitfury is really hard to keep running reliably vs the other hardware out there.

Has the payout happened yet? I haven't seen mine come in yet.

And we need compensations to 8.34 GH/s

Bump

Payouts happened and they are running the Jupiter to boost our hash rate.  What more are you expecting exactly?

8.34 GH/s per share minimum. Now speed is no more than 7 GH/s.

Worker 1 Hash Rate       2313.632 Gh/s
Worker 2 Hash Rate       0 Gh/s
Worker 3 Hash Rate       520.13 Gh/s

Now is 2833GH/s, promised is 3336 GH/s

P.S. OMG, not now, last two weeks speed is the same

You have a good point, no one is trying to dismiss you.
I have been working on these boards, and as you can see from "Worker1" they are way under, even with my personal Jupiter running.

We have several options here:

-I can continue to work at it, but the fact is these bitfury boards (and the chips in general) are not reliable hashers. We can do a small BTC refund for the less than promised hash rate (to be distributed in the next payout)

-I have received an offer to purchase all the boards I have in $, and I can sell them then divide up all the money evenly between 400 shares and refund everyone the appropriate BTC at the exchange rate.

Thoughts yall?

EDIT: I am trying to be as upfront and transparent as I can here, I have just been absolutely swamped the last few days (holidays + trip to china + see barntech's thread)

I guess it depends on how good the offer is for the boards.

I vote to hang in there, yes its a lil less, yes ill ROI just fine at this rate.
but yes if offer good enough to cash out....

deleted post

The offer per board was $900+ each.

bob sorry I don't know the original price, number of boards, etc; :)  I just know what I paid you.  Given that price what would the USD per share be for us?

is it 80 boards for 900 = 72000K?

72k* And there abouts yes. I will have to get more information on the offer etc, but it should still be good.

So about $180 USD a share?  Tempting.

I suppose we should leave this to DZ/bobsag3 but my vote is no. That's a terrible return on investment in BTC terms - and that's what these are: BTC generating machines. Do we basically have to deal with the flakiness or is there any potential for tweaking them to not be so flaky? Is the pi the issue? Would it be more reasonable to get a cheap netbook or something and throw ubuntu on it? I'd just like to understand the options as they currently are. Selling is one option and dealing with the flakiness is another option but what other options are there?

I would like to chime in here and first say Thank you! to the GB operators and especially to Bobsag3 for having the job of keeping this beast running, and to Thomas for dealing with payouts on all the GBs.

This might not have been what we all thought it was going to pan out to be in the beginning as far as hashrate goes goes but we have much to be thankful for.

1.) We were promised shipping of the gear on or before Nov 1. There was no promise of the beast hashing on Nov 1, But low and behold, We had Hashing on Nov1. Realistically we could have lost days to setting the gear up but Bobsag3 cranked it.

2.) The hashrate did not hold and we were compensated with I think 7 BTC to the payout by the DZ guys themselves. I dont know of anyone else that would do that.  They did not have to give us that 7 BTC.

3.) The last part is because of the BTC explosion. Depending on when you cash out your BTC from this GB as far USD goes you should be money ahead now.  I know I am very pleased with the outcome of this GB and am glad I got in on it.

Was it optimal. No, but as far as I can tell every effort possible was made by the DZ Group to make this right in every way they can and that speaks volumes to me about how much they want all their GBs to succeed.

If some are not happy about the hashrate please dont think this long ass post is trying to discount your concern. Your concern is valid and your voice counts.  I only wanted to post what I call the positive parts of this group buy.

Think of where we would be on this group buy if Bobsag3 did not give us the use of his jupiter..  What if he did not have a Jupiter to loan. Now that would suck.

Thanks Bobsag3!

+1 on the Kudos to DZ/bobsag3

Theres plenty I can still do/try, its just time consuming and frustrating. That is my plan to go from now, unless we change or minds.

As I have r5+r6   and r9-r10-r11-r12   I am very happy with dZcoop.  


 I deleted the rest of this

Unless the IRS starts to accept BTC, then you can pay in BTC

deleted

Anyone care to start a petition?

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/

I vote to sell the r9 - to - r12

This is a difficult one for me as I am still starting out and was counting on these payouts coming in, but based on the $ return so far and the hardware resale price, I have to vote sell. It will probably all come back to the co-op anyway, or I can cash out and pay my oil bill :)
Bobsag3 has done a great job getting these going and keeping them running, but I am sure it has taken a lot more of his time then he will be compensated for. I don’t want to see the hosting fee increase because of hardware that is “high maintenance”.
It only makes good business sense to get out while you can and spend the time sourcing new gear that can run without a nanny.

+1 on the Kudos to DZ/bobsag3

Wow, I thought this new hashrate was with the Jupiter taken off because it looks like it had dropped even after the replacement batch of boards came in.  How did the hashrate go lower after the new batch of boards arrived?  I thought the hashrate had dropped because there was a switch over to only bitfury boards or something.  So the bitfury boards are only hashing at 2.3Thash then?  This is really disappointing especially given how much money bitcoins are worth now, is Black Arrow going to make this right or what?

I honestly think we need to try running the miners on something other than raspberry pi's to see if this can be salvaged or something, this is insane how unreliable they've been.  If you think that we can get the hashrate working properly someday then please keep trying but I think the problem here is that maybe we're stretched too thin on manpower to keep something as finicky as bitfuries hashing away properly.

I would like to ROI in BTC though so I'd prefer to keep mining if possible at the original promised hashrate.  What exactly is the problem with the problematic boards though?  Lots of us are pretty good with tech so maybe we can help out with the bum boards?

How can there still be so many bad boards even with 35 new boards in?

Its half a problem with the PIs (they seem to get lazy/tired /die) and the rate drops off slowly, and Ive had some problems with the last V1 controllers and I will be picking up ~20 more of them to help me pin down the problems. Its just a very very time consuming process... because what may work to fix one stack will not work on the others.

Black Arrow has alos offered to rework them into V2 boards (much much better stability), and we are working on a plan to ship in increments to downsize theamount of hashrate down.

I want to chime in here as I have what I would consider a fairly significant investment. In most GB's the GB coordinator(s) are not responsible for the hash rate against advertised hash rate. These boards have obviously been a challenge from the beginning. We knew were getting bleeding edge when this whole thing started. They (Black Arrow) are not shipping product until Feb 2014. I would think they would want our products to perform to avoid a bad rep and I can only assume they are trying as hard as they can.
I don't really care at this point what the majority vote turns out to be but I do want to say this..

These guys have done a unbelievable job with the coordination, setup and constant monitoring. I have been part of several so called investments and I have been fucked by 2/3 of them. In no case have I seen guys go this type of distance to make things "right".

Regardless how this turns out I want to thank you guys for making this as good as it could be.  :)
 

We haven't F'd you we made sweet sweet love....lol

Oh BOY  ;D

Whatever makes your life easier is what I am up for. If selling makes you guys sleep better by all means pull the trigger.

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Thanks for being patient with this Bullet Run.

Another thing bobsag3 and crew had to deal with was: the flu!

He didn't mention this part but they had to deal with the flu on top of all the hardware failing.

Perhaps Black Arrow would consider extending the old pre-order discount price through the end of December for the Co-Op as a good will offer. If after a vote the decision is made to sell the hardware, the round participants could then have the option to get additional discounted R17 shares.

Well, my offer to try and help try and get a particularly problematic stack working still stands, I have plenty of spare hardware and even a good Hakko soldering station though if the problem is really all the boards then I guess black arrow really has to address this.  Anyways, have fun in Hong Kong/China.  Make sure to eat some good dim sum or something.

What worries me is if these are so finicky, what about R17? 

R17 won't be using bitfury chips, they will be using custom minion chips.

Ok thanks for the clarification.

I am torn.  I don't absolutely have to have the money right now, but it's a nice price and I wouldn't mind taking it.  As we look at difficulty increases with the new mining equipment coming out and the difficulties getting these things up and running at full speed our per share earnings are going to fall.  We were a little over .1 BTC per share last payout and that's going to drop.  At a payout every 15 days and 10 shares, I am not sure we will cover the $180 per share offer on the table in the next 30-45 days.  If the BTC price skyrockets obviously I'm wrong ;)  I guess that's the gamble.

But it'll keep hashing long after two payouts.  I honestly think people are crazy impatient in the BTC world haha, for a real world investment to pay you what's equivalent to like 80% dividends every two weeks would be insane.

If you need cash now why not just resell your own shares, I'm sure people want in even at the finicky hash rate.

Agreed. I would rather receive the payments we have been receiving than to take the payment for the boards. I think that's a good compromise: to offer the shares for sale to others (though probably with a fee to manage payout addresses) if we go that route. The only way I would be okay selling the boards is that if the money raised goes towards different boards with a higher hashrate that have a definite delivery date in the not-so-distant future. Keep in mind though, the longer we wait and aren't hashing, KnC gets that much closer.

There already is a transfer fee spelled out in the GB so that's in place.  I was just offered multiple Jupiters at a good rate for instance.  If these weren't problematic and ran at full hash I probably wouldn't care.

I am OK with selling.  I only have one share in R9-12.

I'd rather not sell the equipment, I think we'll mine more btc than we'd get selling the hardware...


Yeah, but they'll use a modified version of the same board, won't they?
I hope they modify them enough so that they'll be much more stable.

This is how I feel. Let's just get a machine that's less finicky than a RPi. Even a $200 netbook with Ubuntu should do the trick.

Same thing here, do not sell the hardware so quickly.

+1 I paid in BTC expecting ROI in BTC, not crappy USD.

If the PIs are causing issues eliminate them from the equation first.

Cheers

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So.. lots of discussion but little action.  I'll set the floor.  After thinking about it last night if the offer is still on the table my vote with my 10 shares is sell.   ;D

I deleted this post

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Why is it difficult? It's very simple: I believe we are going to make more btc keeping the miners mining than we are selling them.

Yes we have ROI'd in fiat currencies, but we haven't yet in BTC. We paid 0.63BTC per share and have received 0.21BTC. This means that we have less btc now than when we started, this is a bad thing.

If we keep hashing at 8GH/s with a difficulty jump of 80% every month, we will have mined 0.35BTC by the end of april. That's more than the 0.16BTC we'll have selling the hardware at todays exchange rate. That 0.16BTC will be even less by the time the sell of the hardware has been made.


If you're meaning to sell these shares to buy into R17, I advise against it. Not that R17 is a bad deal (I don't think so, I have bought shares in R17), but if you sell shares in one round at a loss to buy into a next round, that might lead to continous losses every time a more profitable round shows up. By the time R17 started hashing, difficulty might have risen that much that you would come to the thought of selling those shares to invest in another round again.

Its only a loss if you care more about BTC than fiat.  I'm not going to argue one way or another, I've put my vote up.

R9-12 should be producing 2.3745 BTC at the current difficulty rating.

As of this writing, the 24 BTC for R9-12 is 1.67354500. The next projected difficulty is showing as 889,752,235 and if R9-12 were at 3.34GH/s this would be 1.8879 BTC for a 24 hour period.

I do appreciate ALL THE HARD WORK Bob has put into getting R9-12 up and running, but if this equipment is not going to meet the 3.34GH/s, I say we put it to a GB vote and move forward.

 deleted post

I second this, but I think we need some more official way to vote than over the forums.

Bob says... We need auction. 180 is ridiculous.

Agree with this but also see this point.
tgbtg

R9-12 should be producing 2.3745 BTC at the current difficulty rating.

As of this writing, the 24 BTC for R9-12 is 1.67354500. The next projected difficulty is showing as 889,752,235 and if R9-12 were at 3.34GH/s this would be 1.8879 BTC for a 24 hour period.

I do appreciate ALL THE HARD WORK Bob has put into getting R9-12 up and running, but if this equipment is not going to meet the 3.34GH/s, I say we put it to a GB vote and move forward.

It would be easier to make a decision if the hashing was maxed. DMZ made an official poll in the KNC perhaps we should do that too.

Not sure if I would do it or not, but I like the way Philip thinks about this. However I would want to hear more official options from the Group Buy Coordinators about all options. Im on the fence at the moment to keep or bail, but I must say I like the half loaf analogy. USD wise I have nothing to loose letting hash as is until dead but missing a good exit point might be regretted.

Risk mitigation is not always a bad thing.

Regards.

deleted post

So sell your shares in the hardware, I don't know why you're whining that other people don't wish to sell their hardware.  I still own my BFL Singles even though I could have sold them for a substantial sum of BTC.  If you need the money sell your shares, don't expect everyone else to wish to sell their mining hardware.

Also, I'm quite confident that we will mine back more than an additional 72K even with the difficulty going up, so it makes no damned sense from either a BTC or fiat perspective to sell.  If you don't want your shares sell it to someone else.

I've put far more money into other pre-orders anyway and I wouldn't be willing to give up any of them at this point.  If you want out then sell your shares to someone by listing it on the forum, my guess is that there are many people who would be willing to pay you a similar amount to what you would obtain as proceeds from the coop selling the hardware.  It's a democratic coop so it's majority rules, if you wish to convince us then you need to show us some math that actually shows that we won't ever make more than the offer but that's simply not the case.  If it was the case I wouldn't be heavily invested in other pre-orders.  

Anyways, if you want to put it to an official vote then each share should be a vote, and thus there will be 400 total votes from rounds 9-12.  And I think we should have rules about what minimum # of days people have to decide and what minimum percentage of people have to vote for it to pass (i.e. you can't just have some vote that nobody knows about and only 20% of people respond to).

So far it seems like most people do not want to sell but then again I don't know how many shares everyone holds so I'm not sure which side of the line it really falls under but honestly, why don't you just sell your shares if you're really concerned?

deleted post

While we may not be at a decision to sell the unit at the moment, you are free to sell them yourselves if you find a buyer that wants to buy them and you can come to an agreement and do a share transfer.

Maybe, but I didn't sell fiat to buy my shares and I wouldn't buy fiat if I sold them. Fiat is irrelevant to me in this case. I reinvested BTC I mined into these shares, in order to increase my overall effective hash rate. The past 2 dividends + share of the offer on the table will leave me with a BTC loss.

As an aside, regarding the PI issues...a couple of things to consider trying if not done already; a moderate overclock my modifying /boot/config.txt, e.g:


and also append this to /boot/cmdline.txt:


Cheers,

Suggestion: I'll make a google documents poll in a few hours. If everybody enters his forum name, # shares and preference we'll have an easy overview of how many shares are for or against selling.

I'll add DZminercoop staff to the document so that they can see that I'm not altering the document, and the results and individual votes will be posted in a few days.


If this ok with everybody and DZMinercoop staff, we can easily and quickly decide what to do.

Bobsag3, Thomas_s, Dyslexiczombei, please post or pm your gmail address so I can add you to the document.

testerx nobody was whining.  I thought this thread was actually a pretty good discussion.  Let's not start calling names.  I have also offered my 10 shares for sale either as part of the whole or at the offer price to an individual.

I'm no name calling anybody but people were complaining that others don't have the same viewpoints as them regarding selling when we should all be free to make our own decisions.  The thing is that people can already sell their shares so I don't know why you would want to compel others to sell their shares as well.

Anyways, we'll just put it to a vote.  But voting and sales aside what's going on with the hashrate?  We have to still be discussing how to optimize it regardless of whether or not there's an offer for a sale, otherwise we won't even get a fair sale offer and I don't think $180 is a fair offer at all.

Agreed.  Two separate conversations.

This is ridiculous. People who bought into the operation bought into it as a mining venture and understood it as such. If someone doesn't want to be associated with it anymore, that's their prerogative and they are welcome to sell their shares but others' hands shouldn't be forced just because of changed minds. Look at the payouts so far - given a fair bit of patience, we will ROI in BTC within a reasonable amount of time even with the complications; and not all avenues have been exhausted to remedy the complications. This boils down to people in BTC-land being generally impatient and expecting immediate (or very short-term) returns.

The ONLY way I would be willing to get out is if DZ did a conversion / swap for an immediately-available, higher-hashing run (and let's be honest, probably not going to happen).

Agree with this. Thanks for making the point.

deleted post

just hash fuck it.

This is a co-op.  We are all subject to the will of the vote.  You may not like the vote result but you can't argue not to even have the vote.

Just wanted to stop in and tell you guys I havent forgotten- but I am off to china to meet with BA. I have some possible solutions in the works, I will have more info when I get back (not sure how much access I will have in China.. first time for me!)

thank you and thanks for directing the Jupiter/Saturn  at it to help keep hash close to 3.3 th

+1 Thanks Bobsag3

 :)

This is true and not something I had considered, actually. Thank you for reminding me. I would imagine, however, that rather than throw in the towel the co-op would want to understand options and make all reasonable efforts to bring it back up to par. I would think that DZ/Thomas would have significant weight in recommendations due to involvement in all runs in the co-op.

Hoping the trip to China is fruitful. I hope you have a gift for them (something small). They love red and yellow and the number 8. No watches.

Good luck, have a safe trip! Fyi, I was getting hash rate downward drift like crazy on my pi, flashing latest kernels with the pi-update utility and a reboot has me hashing at exactly the spot I should be now and no drift.

I have 5 shares in R9. I am 100% committed to BTC, and would almost certainly vote to keep the hardware running as long as possible. :)

Just my 2c.

 well since it seems like the r9-r12 wants to mine.  I go with that but the next question is we paid for 3.3th  we are not getting that  . we are getting 2.0th and bob is running a .5 th Jupiter to help bring us somewhat closer to 3.3th about 2.5th , but we have been 800gh short for a long time.

days in fact.  so if we stand pat and I go with the majority to stand pat.  what is our compensation  for the missing hash.


 1 day at 800gh is pretty decent piece of btc we are more like 8 to 10 days of that shortage.

more in fact and  that is over  5 coins.  I do not have a calculator on hand.

http://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty       800 gh is .56btc a day  10 days is 5.6 btc   so what will be the comp for this?  

btw I have not charted the exact number .  but it a lot even if it is spread over 400 shares In my case it is 11/400 x 5.6 btc  

 that is a minimum of .154 btc .  


I made good money with dZcoop  but if we keep this r9-r12 together we need a plan for the btc shortage.  every day we stick to mining we have a shortfall of 800gh so the next order of business needs to be addressing this.

I middled my excess of hash power by selling off all my addiction shares. then cashing out.  I can stick to mining here but we need a plan for the lost hash.

Absolutely agreed.  We need to be getting the hashing we paid for or this is nowhere near as profitable as it should be.

I also will stick by my offer in this thread, I will take $1850 for my 10 shares if anyone cares to buy them.

Thanks,
Paul

Here are the numbers from http://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty and http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/. This is based on a Nov. 1 start date with full hash power.

Difficulty History date range                24 hour BTC         Total BTC for the period             Difficulty for date range
Nov 1 - 4                                           4.2968                         17.1872                              390,928,788

Nov 5 - 16                                         3.2876                         39.4512                              510,929,738

Nov 17 - 28                                       2.7560                         33.072                                609,482,680

Nov 29 - Dec 6                                   2.3745                        17.808                                 707,408,283



Expected BTC to date: 107.5184

Gross Revenue:       89.5411

Current short fall:        -17.9773

Just a quick run of the numbers that are not 100% accurate but are close.

I think they put in some btc .  but I forget if the btc added was for r9 to r12  or r5 -r6

 I think 7btc was placed in  just do not remember which set of rounds  was btc put in.  

this log jam has made me be less eager to drop coin for 10 shares on r17 since the same company may make the same shortfall.  on those 40gh shares.

7 BTC was for r9-12 (it's a couple pages back, I think).

so we may be short 10 not 17 btc  correct?

yeah the 7BTC was in 9-12.

BTW im in china now.

Ok, so that definately gets us closer but the hash rate is suffering still :(  Hope you can clear it up with them.

Putting my shares where my mouth is, I put them up for sale here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361134.0

If they sell, great.  If not I am ok with that too :)

The revenue page reflects the added BTC actually so you can't subtract 7 when figuring out the shortfall.

 It is why I asked as I was not quite sure about it.

Yeah I was answering, I'm pretty sure they put in the 7 to the numbers before giving out the first payment.

Just got the e-mail about the offer...very interesting

Same, but without knowing the btc amount I can't make a decision, I am not here for USD.

BTC price will be computed on the day of the sale based on the bitpay rate.

Will R17x still be open once these are sold?

I'd also like to understand the alternative plans if we don't accept the offer. bobsag3 has indicated that he has some other things to try - such as replacing the Pi with something a little more robust. I'm curious what the time frame is on it though. He's in China - but who is holding down the fort while he is gone? How long will he be gone? Are there any possibilities for replacement of the bad boards since he is presumably visiting BlackArrow while there and is likely discussing possibilities (among other things). I'm not in this for the USD either (as nicksmith indicated earlier) but if we are going to just keep chugging along at a significantly reduced hashrate with no possibility of it going back to the nominal rate, that sort of changes things a bit for me. A clear outline of possibilities at this point, DZ / Thomas, would be helpful for making the determination on whether to sell or not.

I took a look at r17 - is there an estimated date of hashing? I couldn't find that anywhere.

Edit: after digging a little, I was able to find that BA is supposed to ship them in February. Presumably hashing would happen almost immediately after shipment given the history of this batch (r9-12).

For the people who want to wait to vote this is possible, voting ends on Dec. 14th.

bobsag3 comes back on Tuesday I believe.

I liked to be paid in BTC.
that's what I paid. It is there a way to see the vote count?

There is no way to see the vote count, BTC will be paid but it will be calculated at time of sale. If you don't want to sell and get 287.50 usd worth of BTC at the time of the sale vote no.

I got the email I voted I have 11 shares.

287 a share is better then 180  a share ..

So to those that resisted  the earlier offer you gain  around 100 usd  a share.

It would be nice for people to vote early since 201 votes either way makes the decision done.

 I can see waiting to see next diff  adj which would be  on wed morning the 11 or late tues.

here are two estimates for diff rise

***********************************************************************************
707,408,283  now


908,255,612 (+28.39%)  in 264 blocks   http://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

*************************************************************************************
Difficulty  707408283   now

Estimated   888112465 in 263 blks   (+25.55% )           http://bitcoincharts.com/

***************************************************************************************

On the  6th -7th  of dec I made  6 purchases on coinbase :

 .40 btc  for $283.98            = 709.95 usd     10:23 pm
 .40 btc  for $247.53            =  618.82 usd    11:12 pm
 .20 btc  for $130.34            = 651.70 usd     11:31 pm
 .20 btc  for $120.54            = 602.70 usd     11:44 pm
 .30 btc  for $171.04            = 570.13 usd     11:50 pm  
 .29 btc  for $184.68            = 636.82 usd     12:10 am


this is a shitload of volatile movement for 2 hours time.

I am not done.

 I sold on the 7th of dec 

0.38 btc  for  307.53     =  809.28 usd   4:10 am
1.0 btc   for   809.68    =   809.68  usd  4:13 am    so coins moved from a low of 570 to a high of 809 in 6 hours.

If I  get 287 a share  x 11 shares = 3157 usd   for me

 and 400 shares = 114,800  for the whole sale.  

   I ask for  notice   before you send me coins.  So I can cash them very quickly if I want to do so.

Are we still getting the first two weeks of Dec. payout on the 15th and the share price if we decide to sell?

Yes the sell will be added to what was mined.

I would like to hope that Bob has a fix it in his pocket after his return visit with BA whether it is a software or hardware issue. I'm sure he will provide a good balance to R9-12 recovery as well as getting the new hardware up and running.

As you know, every second that goes by is lost of BTC if R9-12 is not producing 2.3745 BTC every 24 hours at the current difficulty of 707,408,283.

It is a bit hard to decide without the news from his trip. I would like to know what he thinks generally as well. He may want us to sell because it is casing an enormous amount of his personal time which I can sympathize with.

This offer was given to bobsag3, and he forwarded to me. You are free to hold off your vote.

I'm also waiting to hear the results of the trip. I'd love to know if it's a realistic expectation to get the hash rate to nominal.

E2A: at the moment selling = profit in fiat or loss in BTC. Therefore I'm still inclined to keep mining, even with the risk of taking a small BTC loss. I want BTC, not fiat.

With the 100$ increase in the offer per share, my opinion of 'absolutely not selling' to  'probably not selling'.

When will bobsag3 return or be able to comment on possibility of increasing the hashrate?
If it is decided to sell the hardware, will the USD be converted to XBT on the 14th?

Absolutely not selling in fiat, only in BTC with profit.

You know Dz coop can announce the vote 202 of 400 shares says sell it .  And they could pay you 287 cash per share like the rest of us.  We are in this on a trust basis .  We trust and hope the correct thing is  going to be done. If you want a btc profit trust me it will not happen.  The only profit is going to be fiat. These machines will not earn a btc profit.


If you want  to argue btc will go to 3k then take the 287 a share and convert it to btc and hold it.
   

 To further the argument as to no btc profit diff will jump to 900 mill in a day.

I get that btc profit is a nice simple idea.   It is not going to happen here.  We had 2 nice adjustments now we get a bad one. 25-30% .



As to btc price jump  that may happen as to btc price drop well it did go under 600 usd on the 6th. It is now 900.

do the math at 900 mill btc roi is ? days from now.  a share should be 8.3 ghs at 900 mill diff it earns .133 btc in a month

287 is about .3btc  so at todays price you are getting more then 2 months of btc earned if diff freezes at 900 mill.

 


Besides the sale at 287 .  the short fall of btc must be dealt with it is 17 or 18 btc short and it is separate from the sale  it is about .0425-.0450 a

share.

If I take the 287 buyout  I still want the shortfall addressed. or is the 287 including the shortfall.

 which means the buyout is  247 and the shortfall is 40.   BTW I am fine with this but I am sure other want the 287 plus the missing coin.

4 months at 3.333TH, and 10 BTC compensation for low speed.

why  4 months.   the 10 -17 btc makes sense for the shortfall   but the 4 months of hash  no ,


here is why the 4 months is not needed   the 287 is worth more then 2.4 months of  hash at a diff of 900 mill.    we will have hashed from nov 1 to dec 15  that is 1.5 months  so you get 3.9 months worth of hash in 1.5 months of holding the gear.  basically to not sell is a really crazy move. with just about 0 math sense .


your risk of btc price drop is vanished  poof gone.  and if you really think btc will go up hold some btc with the money.

I havent risk with price drop. And I talk for ROI for .40 BTC, the other .21 are in my wallet

here you go  each share cost  .63 btc they have paid .23 btc so we are at .40 btc loss.   each share


they offer 287 that is .312 btc   so   I get that you do not want to take a btc loss

 .400
-.312


.088  btc loss  

they will pay us divs on the 15th so  that div will be at least .05 a share    
 so .088 - .05 = .038 btc loss each share maybe less once you figure the div for the 15th of  dec.  also maybe less once you add in the short fall.
as we are short about .042 btc a share.  so in btc you would be a push. or close to a push


but if you hold your share  8gh


not earn .4 btc    until late june  of 2014 and the diff needs to be under 16%

 so as for a roi in btc you just will most likely never ever see that.

A roi in fiat yes btc no. just is not going to happen.

BTW a great roi in fiat truly great return.  Trust me   This is an amazing return.

Now if you want to argue anything about more fiat  we should get 287 plus the dividends  up to the 15th and the btc shortfall of  .0425-.045 each share fine I am down with that.

But btc roi is not here won't happen   you can not get blood from a stone.

 to get roi in btc we need to keep the network at a 14% difficulty adjustment for 6 months in a row,  this is pretty much impossible.

Worker 1 hash rate is down to 746.752 Gh/s

Did Bob left someone behind to watch the rigs?

Guys,

Philipma1957's math and logic is good here. If you want a BTC increase you would better off using some trading strategies on one of the exchanges. Buy low, Sell high, Its a proven method that will increase your BTC.  In my opinion mining is more speculative.

If you are truly set on mining and increasing your BTC, and as stated by some, USD(or your currency of choice) means nothing to you. Buy a miner with your currency(remeber your traditional currency means nothing to you). Put your miner in a room and collect BTC. Instantly you have increased your BTC holdings.

We will see how it shakes out.

Also consider if you take payout from this GB, you can then buy shares in r-17 and keep the BTC coming in.

Best Regards,

one last try to explain this.  

1 share of r 9 = 8gh     hand me 287 cash for it today .. I buy 1 share of r17 cost me 130 cash.


 I have 157 in my pocket.   and 40th Down the road.

I paid only  123  for one share of r9    

  
  i have  collected .23 in btc  and

 I have 40 gh to replace the 8gb I have now.    if  diff stays at 25%   we  

jump to 883 on the 11th

jump to 1104 on the 22th

jump to 1380 on the 2nd Jan

jump to 1726 on the 13th Jan

jump to 2157 on the 24th Jan

jump to 2696 on the  4th feb

jump to 3371 on the  11th feb

jump to 4214 on the 22nd feb.       this is not quite 5x of tomorrow's diff.     so  once we go on line with the new gear we will be equal or better then we are now.  and that is with putting back half the money you would be paid.  130 of the 287

if you put back 260 of the 287 you get 80GH in future hash. 

  BFL the greatest of all a sic builders wants 10.80 a gh  so 287 gets you  26 gh hash power for 1 year with no ownership of the gear.

 So if you really want to hash  buy some in r17 and pull some money out for the holidays.

Can we have some clarification on the "rules" here? Is this going to be decided one way or another with a majority even if some people do not vote?
We are only a week away and many are waiting on Bob's results.
Thanks

The decision is going to be made either way

51% of votes say yes = sell
or
201 shares vote yes = sell

or

51% of votes say no = no sell
or
201 shares vote no = no sell

It's definitely worth discussing this, but in my position this has two issues.

1. Swapping short-term risk (not being able to get hashrate up) for long-term risk (new hardware is delivered and hashes as advertised)

2. Putting all my eggs in one basket. I already have shares in R17. I'd like to keep my shares diversified if possible.

well then hold as btc.


look  we are at a race track with many tracks  races  and horses to pick

one race has horse named " hold the btc "

another race has a horse named " l Love Dz coop "

we bet I love dz coop  and it came in  basically we got 3 to 1 on our bet.

if you bet hold the btc you would have got about 6 to 1.  

  every one that feels bad    is feeling bad about picking a lessor winner in a different race and everyone that resists taking profit is  making the ones that want to cash out on the winner wait and risk winnings.

The machines will not earn .35 btc a share in the next 90 days.

 this pay out is .35 btc now not over 90 days now.  I can not stress how important now is when it comes to btc.

All those that fail to see this need to realize the payout of 287 usd is .325 btc as I type and then figure what 8 gh earns from dec 15th on

it does not earn the .325 btc    for a long time  if ever.

fwiw, I put in my vote of 4 shares to sell.  I went through my PM and I guess I had paid for this with fiat, so win/win.

Well I honestly have to say I don't know if the coop simply wants us to sell or what's going on but this new offer is definitely more tempting.  It seems like the hashrate keeps dropping every day, I don't know what's going on, are we still trying to keep the hashrate up or have we basically given up since there's a buyout offer?

We are trying but the rpi's aren't cooperating they require resets very frequently to keep them up and with bobsag3 being in china the past weekend it didn't help either.

If the rpi's and the stratum proxy cooperated we'd be golden.

Will this issue affect future runs too (e.g. R17)?

I'm still finding it hard to gauge whether it's better to throw everything into R17.

I believe R9-R12 are Bitfury chips which require a computer (RPi) to operate while the X-Prospero are self contained and just connect to a router.

Cool. If the coop votes to sell I'll probably throw everything into R17 then. We'll see.

I am back from china (well, sitting at the airport in chicago)

I have a beavy of fixes to try, and some other tricks up my sleave to get our hashrate back up. I hope to get it out tonight... but I still have 1 more flight and 2 hours drive before I am back at the facility.

I think the offer is really good, but I have to wonder why. What does the buyer know that we don't? and for that reason, I voted no.

WB Bob! Hope your trip was also some fun!

  that was not so clever as you may think.

here is why I say that.  all of us depend on dzcoop to be nice guys non thief's yada yada yada.

worse case is they are brilliant thieves.  well if they are great crooks. you play into their hands.  why may you ask.  here is why.  most of dzcoops money is in r17 and it is a lot of the money.  more then 70%.  Right now I know where the miner facility is located but they have said they are getting a new one.  they are putting all of r17 into the new one.

Sooo if they close the old one down and go poof lets say on feb 15 they will score huge money .   and instead of r9 r10 r11 r12 being a solid winner guys likes you hurt the rest of us. 

  frankly if you don't trust them to look out after us you should have voted to take you cash out in r9 to r 12.

 I for one believe in them and would not hesitate to spend more on r17 as I think they are honest but the share holders that are doubting dzcoop should have all voted to take the money. voting to keep mining because you doubt dzcoop is not very logical.   they have more then 250000 usd in coin locked up in r17
 they could bolt and where would you be?

I for one am ahead and I have faith in them.  I voted for dissolving this for many reasons  not the long slow deep con reason above.  But when some one states they think something is crooked and lacks trust well then I had to point out what the f is your reasoning  they have 4 or 5 fold the money in r17 dude and they could go poof on any day.  So why let them hold your money here?

I must say, philipma, that your logic here is a mystery to me.
If I understand correctly, the buyer who made the offer is from outside of DZMC? Therefore, why do you imply, that thetopham mistrusts DZMC?

Re voting, I am waiting for a final say from Bob. He mentioned bringing a few tricks to try, so let him try.

The hardware has been underperforming so far and it appears to be a hosting nightmare from maintenance POV, so I might vote yes to sell for purely humanitarian reasons, but I need a final assessment from Bob to decide.

Im starting to get frustrated, this is a no brainer people, SELL!!!!!!!

Let everyone decide for themselves. The vote continues untill the 14th anyway.
It is said that knowledge is one of the most valuable assets. If we wait for bobsag3's experience with the fixes he has in mind, we might be able to make a better decision in the end.

 :)

I have ~8 boxes waiting for me... Gotta love tight schedules :)

Yes I am .  here is why: he voted against the sale (his words not mine) which means he lacks faith in bob, dz and Thomas to get us a good offer.  

Also he lacks belief that r17 would be good for him once again that is questioning the brains of dzCoop.   So if you do not trust the heads of the coop why hold the shares?

Okay lets put this another way.  I believe in the coop.  I believe in  black arrow and I believe r17 will whale.  I have a degree in accounting and have years of tax /investment experience ..   DzCoop   has 70% of its hash in r17.  if the gear sucks DzCoop is really going to take a hit.
  Since r9 -r12 buyers have 3x their fiat  and the gear has problems  and r17 is coming closer..    Here are the possible out comes

 1)R17 is great.   this means all older gear is not so great. maybe  only 10-15 % of what it is now
 2)R17 is meh.     this means all older gear is still not so great but  lets say a 70% drop not an 85%  drop in power
 3)R17 is terrible   crashing and burning dzcoop to the ground
 4)Dzcoop are bad guys and vanish in a few days.

All of the above are possible.

1)If the first one is true voting no to  sale r9-r12 prevents putting the money into r17
2)If the second one is true voting no to the sale of  r9-r12 is less bad  but still prevents picking more of r17 or bailing out of both
3)If the third is true  voting no prevents  getting out some cash now.
4)lastly if this is true insisting on the buyout might expose the con ending sales in r17 so less is stolen.

I would like my 11 x 287 = 3157 usd ..

I would buy  10 shares of r17   1300

 keep 1 btc    = 957 usd

 and cash for 900 usd at coin base.

this investment move  above  would be pretty much unbeatable  compared to mining with my 11 underperforming shares.

 1 share = 8.3 gh      that will not mine 287 usd at today's prices.
11 share = 91.3 gh   this will not mine 3157 usd at today prices.

If coins go down it is worse to have held.  if we sold and I cash 900 usd I lower that problem.

If coins go up  I simply will be holding 1 btc so I will do okay.  

 If diff goes nuts. I will turn my 91.3 gh into 400 gh.

still under hashing.  looks like 1.8 not 3.3 and no knc miner added


http://www.dzminercoop.com/?page_id=302

 we have earned about 18 btc since dec 1st

we are short about 5btc in just the dec 1 to dec 11 time frame

at a diff of 908 mill  3.3th earns 1.827 btc a day.  
the current 1.8th on lines earns .9966 btc a day

roughly  .83 btc short each day if the rate stays at 1.8 vs 3.3


so if the dividend was today it would be 18/400 = .045  a share   it should be 23/400 or .0575 a share.    in usd it would be  39.96   vs 51.06  these figures do not count expenses and are rough estimates.  

 but the idea that $40  vs $50  means  as of today we are on schedule for 80% of what should be paid.

 
_________________-----------------______________________----------------------------_______________________---------------------
 total shortfall since the first day of hashing is a bit over 20btc  or 20/400 = .05 btc about 45 usd a share.

So not selling and keeping your assets with DZMC suggests that you have less trust in DZMC than when you're selling the shares? Logic?
Imo, holding the shares equals to putting more trust in the DZMC, relying on the fact that bobsag3 will come up with a fix to increase the hashrate.


May I remind you btw that the volatile nature of bitcoin also poses a risk to the profitability of selling the shares vs holding them? Bitcoin could very well rally up to a point when exchanging the money from the deal into BTC will result in less BTC than gained from keeping the miners running.

I'm not saying you're wrong, you have a reasonable chance of being right. But imho you're assuming too much, too confident that selling the shares is the right thing.
Have you voted already? If not, wouldn't it be wise to atleast wait untill the 14th to see what bobsag3 has to say and see what the conversion rate is at?


To whoever is in charge of the deal, at what time will the $ be converted into BTC?

yes if the sale is made the btc to usd rate is very critical. as is the timing

  as for logic it is simple I trust dzCoop so if they make me an offer I trust the offer to be good.   they are giving me choice to take cash out and do what i want to do.  at this point to fix the shortfall then need to add about 20 btc to this weeks payout.  and they need to make the hash go to 3.3th.    they have said they can not do this or at least they have said it is too hard to do this.  the gear needs too much tweaking.    so for me it is time to move on to other dZcoop offers.    I have purchased some r17 and want some more.  I have no need to go into my pocket to do this as I will wait for the 15th of this month.  when they give some payout for r5-r6 and r9-r12 I will buy more r17.   if they buy us out here I will get 10 shares of r17 and 1 share of r20.
no buy out means only  1 share of each.

At no time have they said A) we are giving you the choice to collect 20btc to be split 400 ways and we are jumping back to 3.3th.    that has not been an offer to us.

As for being afraid of btc jumping after the payout just hold the btc.  I agree that if the deal is made and btc jumps to the moon before we get paid we are screwed. 

Without more information I am leaning towards selling as well. If the hardware will not work with a certain level of stability what else it there to do? I agree with some of what was said. You could invest on another GB that has more stability if you wish.

I am not one who watches that hash rate every minute but we all know it has been a struggle. Perhaps it is time to to embrace this sale before we are all stuck with no buyer and hardware that was an alpha product.

• If we agree to the sale how long will it take to get the funds, convert to BTC and sent out? The faster this is done the more it will mitigate risk
• It would really help to get the GB leaders input. Would you guys like to see the sale go through? I know you have covered losses in the past but that can't and should not continue forever.

DBA

Me either. But isn't all Bitcoin mining hardware an "alpha product" by definition? Every new bit of mining kit that comes out is fresh from R&D. I'm still not convinced any other hardware will be more reliable. But the R17 hardware does seem like it has less points of failure (no need for RPIs), so maybe that is the best choice.

Yes agreed to a point. I would say KNC gear is at least Beta. If it weren't for the consistency of the one adding hash power to our GB it would be a big loss.
I am also thinking down the road to the KNC products. The price this GB leaders has/had was very reasonable. You would not be mining tomorrow but in the end that may be the best course of action to gain BTC. I would love for them to do a small GB with 4 or 5 people splitting 3000GHS+. My only fear is the delivery timing as we all know. At the rate that these guys are going they may even end up with shares as a cloud mining service who knows.

Hopefully Bob can chime in that will be the deciding factor for me. If he can't because of the time restraints I will vote yes.

Getting close to the vote now, betting a lot of people have already voted, but I'd still like to hear more about whether we can realistically expect the hashrate of this GB to improve.

For those who dont want to sell...

Even if bob is able to get the hash up to 10gh/s and keep it there (unlikely) and the difficulty goes up by 25% (conservative) we will never see $290 per share

http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=908350862.43702&dcosts=0&diff_mincrease=25&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=10000&diff_mincreasedecrease=0.1&btcusd=832.64&dpowcon=0&btcusd_mincrease=0&pcost=0&calcweeks=20&dleadtime=0&action=calc

http://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator

selling is the best option!

Agreed!  As an investor I have made the mistake of holding certain investments a little too long. I would rather this not be one of the shoulda coulda events in my life. I have learned no matter what I wanted out of my investments, a profit realized is better than waiting for more and then watching it become worth less.

To each his own vote, vote for your own reason, my vote is sell.

Regards,

I feel that we need to sell this equipment as it is quickly going to be outdated.  Best to sell and re-invest in newer tech.

I want to sell while the equipment is still worth something.  Just my two bits :)

Havent forgot about you guys- I am starting to deploy some of my fixes now. Sorry it took so long, R15-16's jupiters kept shutting off and that took all of my attention.

This calculator is ridiculous, difficulty is not going to constantly go up by 25% every time until it hits 60 billion, it would take many times more than all the asic hardware that's coming down the pipeline to do that.  Difficulty will go up and then level off somewhere in the billions range, maybe like 8-9 billion but it's not going to 60 billion this year.

Don't get me wrong, I think the $290 offer is a good offer but let's use realistic numbers not crazy ones.  I voted to sell by the way, so I'm actually for selling but based on realistic numbers these units should recoup the 290 and then some, it'll just take some time and it might be worth it to have cash in hand to deploy on other mining projects.

lol fair point, i guess all im trying to say is even if these chips can mine the $290 it wont do so till well into April at best. Where if you sell now you can put that money in the r17 chips and get 5 times the hashing power which will start in february, so there is no sense in holding these chips now, as it has been mentioned by phillip and other members

Bob,
Can we please have specifics on the sale so we can make an educated decision?

Is the offer that was originally agreed (price and price to GB members per share) to still on the table as of the 14th of Dec?   
If we agree to the sale how long will it take to get the funds, convert to BTC and sent out? The faster this is done the more it will mitigate risk for GB leaders and GB members. At this point a sale on the weekend may drive the fiat exchange rate up.
It would really help to get the GB leaders input. Would you guys like to see the sale go through? I know you have covered losses in the past but that can't and should not continue forever.
Is it safe to assume the GB leaders will not be making up for lost hash rate going forward?
Will the sale happen if there is a majority vote "yes" even if all the members have not voted?

Will have to vote either way tomorrow but it would really help to hear from you guys on this matter.
Thanks
DBA

 
well we are getting near to payout time.  for r5 r6  plus  r9-r12  . hash is still low for r9-r12 about 2.2th . with the knc added.  r9-r12 is short close to 20 btc since it started since nov 1st.

  my nerves get on edge for various reasons 3000 in buy out and about 1.6 in btc should be done by monday the  nerves should calm down a bit.  hopefully . whatever is done with r9-r12 is over by monday as not knowing ties up a lot of decisions for me.



I ask this if btc had jumped really crazy up to 5k. the short fall would be 100,000 usd.  frankly it is 16,000 usd right now.  this is not good. i do not want to address a huge amount like 100,000. if coins can go from 105 in sept to 1150 on thanksgiving weekend. they could jump from the current 800 or so to 5000 by  late dec. asking r9-r12 to run with a 20 btc shortfall hurts all of us.  lets do this quickly.

So R17 is now closed.

oh well.  so the trigger did not get pulled here it time for an easy buy into r17.  and it did not get pulled in time for a 20k plus sale of 1 of the miners r5 +r6.    

and this one is hashing at 1.9 th as I type  instead of 3.3 th.

  so my chance  and all of those in r5 + r6  along with r9-r12 to painlessly buy into r17 is now gone.  Well at least those buys made money.

 I got me 2 shares of r17.  not the 10 I hoped for.  well this will make my next btc choice less complicated..

 hey those that wanted to keep on hashing could still be correct.  time will tell.    :-[

I have a series of negotitations at various price points going on right now, trying to get us the best deal.

At absolute minimum, Every share will be receiving a .02BTC refund in the next payout (adding in an extra 8BTC to the payout).

I will be tearing down the entire wall of rigs tomorrow, and rebuilding it software+hardware wise (reflashing SDcards etc), in addition to after I fix my personal november KnC's, be adding them to get out hashrate at 3+ thash in the mean time.

The worst case senario is all the boards are sent back slowly to be remade into v2 (at no cost to the GB), and or replaced with other hashrate in the mean time (Either jupiters I will get, or antminers).

I hope this is enough to at least let you guys know I am working very hard to get this fixed and us back on track.


Also, we have ~2BTC worth of NMC to convert.

Thank you very much for your hard work Bob. I want you to know it's appreciated.

   thanks for update.  and extra .02 btc a share  (8btc)  would get us to about a 10-12btc shortfall.  If the shares can be hashing at 8gh-9gh with the labor you do to them  it would help.  if you can sell at higher then 287 a share it would really help.   This r9-r12 has made money in fiat terms.  I am also sure it was helpful to black arrows newer design  coming out in the r17 group buy.

 the idea of it slowly changing into better gear only works for the shareowners if we get a lot more hashrate.  if we get all v2's and end up with the same 3.3th we lose out over the buy out.  since 287 a share gets us more then 2 shares of the now dead (paused) r17 which would be more the 80gh in feb.  thanks for a hopeful update.

Thanks for the effort you put into this Bobsag3.  With your trip out of the country, trying to get other GB gear up and stable and now with what you have outlined here as your plan of action for this group buy we probably dont even see half of what is on your  plate.

I for one appreciate what you put into this.

Best Regards,

I have a feeling that a lot of people were eying r17 as their alternative after the refund. Owing to the fact that it's closed (paused?) this could change things fairly significantly for some folks and may change their votes. I would propose, since the options have changed somewhat, that we perhaps reset the votes with the current information. I waited for news from bob but didn't anticipate r17 being closed.

My vote wont change. I did however point to R-17 as a possible avenue for others that wanted to continue to hash.  I am ready to live with this no matter the outcome.

I haven't voted yet and won't vote untill the last minute or untill I hear Bobsag3's opinion on the hashrate fixes.

My vote will not change either. I know Bob is trying and I applaud his effort. But right now we are still at about 3.75 Ghash/share without the Jupiter as I don't think it is fair to count  it. This coop has been very fair in supplementing the bitcoin mining, but I don't think that is fair to expect or even request going forward.

 As far as R17 goes it sounds like the could be another option as soon as more details about the second batch of Black Arrows are figured out.

 :)

I don't want to make anything in this group buy vote more complicated than sell or don't sell. You idea of offering more mining options for units that are available now is a good one, but I would prefer to see that in a seperate group buy.

400 x 287 = 114800 usd /880 a btc = 130 coins /4 = 32 x 180gh =  5.8th     rough math   but close .

I used 4 coins a unit but I left out the coins owed due to underpayment.

   don't forget we  may have as much as 1 week down time.

but if you told me  we go from 3.3 to 5.8   in a week it could work  of course I do not know if  the power works those units pull 400-500 watts each  so you are talking 32 x 500 =  12000-  16000 watts to get the 5.8th also it would be 32 units to maintain via ethernet

I have done this so far:
Sold a decent number of the non working boards to raise enough funds for 4 antminer blades, so an extra 800Ghash will be here next week.
I have 2 of my programmers looking into the miner code and the pi, to see if we can find the root cause and or fix it.
I will be adding my 2 nov KnCs for the temporary.

This should do:
~1.5thash of the working BF boards
~500ghash Oct KNC
1 3 modual nov knc ~500ghash
1 Fully working nov KnC ~650ghash
800Ghash of antminers next week

This would bring us up to just under 4 thash.

 well that does help.  are you still going to add the 8btc this 15th of dec payment? if you do and the short fall drops to 10-12 btc since nov 1st hashing.  we would be close to square 1.  if we hash at 4th instead of 3.3th  in 8 or 9 days the 10 or 12 btc short would slowly drop due the the extra hashing.  while I would have rather closing and taking 287 usd for each share and buying into r17 ,  your fix is getting closer to just as good a deal.. Bob thanks for working at this I know I type a lot of shit some good some bad on this thread I do really appreciate  your hard work at this.  best regards phil


also many thanks to dz, thomas and moonitator

Bob,
You really are amazing and are working very hard and that is appreciated thank you very much!

Can we get a final tally on what you have a solid bid please? You mentioned you have several deals that you are working on. With that said now we have a lineup of several different vendors providing the hash rate or the proposed hash rate.

I don't think it is possible to select and educated vote without knowing three factors:

1) Are you planning on leaving this hardware allocated to this GB going forward to get around 4THs?

2) What is the price per share going to be? At this point we are one day away from the vote deadline we need to lock this in.

3) If there is a majority vote either way and not all the members vote will that vote still be valid?

I have asked this several times already and gotten vague responses at best. How can we vote on something without having the information/rules that the vote is going to determine?
I am not trying to be a dick but we are one day away we need this as soon as possible. If you are not the right person to ask can someone else from the GB leaders please chime in?
Thanks
DBA

I can appreciate your desire for clarity.

Thomas' response about question #3 was clarified here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=328996.msg3893700#msg3893700
The way I read that after the 15th if the majority voted to sell, no matter what percentage of the group buy that is, they will sell.

Awesome thanks one down two to go

To me this brings up more questions than it answers. Neither of those two offers are even close to the $287.50 per share vote that we have right now. If we only have 95 working boards those need to sell for about $1210 a board to get that rate per share.

1. What happened to the offer that we are voting on right now. Is that not an option anymore?
2. Are there more boards that are not running that were included in that number?

Thanks.

well I voted for 287 usd not 56 usd a share.  22.5k is 56 and some change per share.

I really do not want to complain but 56 is a no and 287 is a yes.   Asking us to vote on 180  then 287 and then saying you have 56 and maybe 28  in unsold really does not make much sense.

 Why vote and argue for days on numbers that have no meaning.   Look like I said if the shareholders of this group turned the pay outs into fiat they all made money myself included.  I am happy with making the money that we have made.  Not happy with a 180 offer going to 287 and now it is 56 with 28 or so left over.

Look this r9-r12 is a small part of dzcoop but there are 400 shares and changing the numbers that much looks really bad.

I did not change the numbers- those who made the offers at the time I offered to everyone have not gotten back to me, so I can only report the sure fire offers.

That is why the first priority is to get us back up to hashrate, and to payback the missing coins, as that will be the simplest way to up the USD/share.

Also technically R9-12 is only 80 boards, I am willing to sell all the ones I have to make it up (since they dont all get the promiced hashrate)

  Not complaining just frustrated.  And I am sure you are a lot more frustrated about this then I am.

Again I take Philips side,
The vote was for what I quote below. Copy paste from the e-mail sent to vote on:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We have received an offer for the purchase of R9-12 it equates to $287.50 per share.

We are voting on selling Round 9-12, below is the vote form it will close and be calculated on December 14th, this vote is all or nothing if 51% of shares vote for selling its sold and BTC gathered in the sale will be sent to the normal collection address and distributed in the normal payout.

51% of shares that vote yes will equal a sale, OR 201 yes shares will become a sale.

51% of shares that vote no will equal no sale, OR 201 no shares will mean no sale."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That explicitly states $287.50, that is what I voted on. Now if that can not be obtained I would say the whole vote process was premature and now invalid. Of course if it is still $287.50 I would still maintain my sell position.

I'm not even frustrated and defiantly not angry, just stating my position.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the math of price per board and price per share. If so feel free to point me in the right direction.

Best Regards,

Thanks for your efforts bobsag3

In order to sell, Let's get final offers and have a re-vote.

Thank you for being transparent!
Ok this makes the decision very easy in my mind. Can we all agree to these terms?

• All current votes that have been submitted should be cancelled
• When the GB leaders get what they consider a concrete offer that offer should be submitted to the GB members as a new vote

This in no ones fault we have some hardware that is acting up. We have people busting balls to make up the difference and being transparent about the current offer on the table.
My thought was the hardware changed so it was logical that the bid would change. Based on all of this the current submitted votes should be null and void and the sale at least be postponed.
If we get a total hash rate that we can sell as a chunk even if it is desperate hardware that makes the total hash rate we should vote again.

We need input from Bob and from GB members on this please speak up.
DBA

This.
The offers when they were made to me were made with the time window to vote in mind- they just backed out on their end. I have a growing black list of such people.

My thoughts were similar to someone who answered the survey from R5/6, "less democracy let the GBC's make the right decision for us", while democracy is all well and good sometimes its better to not have to vote when there is a good offer on the table, or something time sensitive.

  this.   my position is  I agree with this.    heres the bottom line the 3 or 4 top guys running this could have walked away with a shitload of coins and fucked us all.  well they have not done this.   So I am going with the idea that they won't fuck us and run.

 I rather they tell me boom we did this move then to have endless talks here with a keyboard and a beer in my hand.


BTW you reopened r17 and I grabbed a 3rd share.

  

Agreed.  No fault. Hit the big red reset button for this one. :)

A lot of people paid with BTC though, I had to pay with BTC because Chase QuickPay was no longer an option because Chase wouldn't process it any more, so I'm actually quite negative.  It's good that you paid with USD but not everyone did. 

So which offer would you have recommended?  I think the coordinators should chime in with what they think about the offer, and even if it's time sensitive and I don't think the problem here is with the time, we can all agree to shorter voting periods if that's a problem, I don't know how serious any offer would be if they can't wait 72 hours.  Honestly I'm not sure I'd have been happy with any of the offers with the sole exception of the 287 offer (which may not have been serious) so I would have simply preferred not to sell and I get the feeling that this is what the majority of voters also feel.

I think maybe we should agree to some rules about getting votes on a faster basis but I don't think we should make things less democratic, this is a mining coop after all it's not like we bought shares of asicminer where it's not really run as a coop.  To be honest if someone's offer expires in 24 hours I'm not sure how serious their offer was to begin with.  I still think we should do votes for something as major as a sale of hardware but for the sake of time it could be reasonable to just set a timeframe of like 48-72 hours after which whatever the majority voted for will go.

I just want to say thanks for working so hard to make this right, it is very much appreciated even if this thread can get heated sometimes regarding voting and hashrate and whatnot.  Unfortunately I guess a lot of people make vaporware offers.

yeah that is the world of btc.   Well lets hope that the hash rate gets improved as the buyout now mentioned is far too low.  we are at 1.3 plus bobs knc of .5
 total of 1828gh    not 3340 gh

 :)

right now.
  r5 + r6 runs well.

  r9-r12 not well.

  r15 + r16  needed bobs magic touch.



My position has not wavered

A) I trust dZcoop with my coins to buy gear and hash for me.  

B)  I also trust them to sell it if it is best.  

C) I also believe they will continue to honor the 8.3 gh minimum of r9-r12.  

D)  Because of my above belief  I purchased more shares in r17 today.  I went from 2 to 5 .

 

E) If r17 is open when I get my r5-r6 coins and my r9-r12 coins on sunday. I will buy more shares.  

Most likely I will go up to 8 from the current 5.  moving me from 200 to 320gh

Just to chime in again to say thanks for all your efforts and sacrifices (using personal miners and topping up BTC output).

I also agree that maybe having everything democratic can sometimes cause problems.

I have to say though, it was one of the reasons I decided to invest in DZC group buys and not others.

I actually forgot to put in my vote, lulz :p...


Soooo... Offer has taken a plunge, what do we do now?

Seems so, if the offer comes back it will be taken as the vote has come to more yes' than no's. In the mean time bobsag3 will be attempting to fix the units / replace them with different hardware.

Thanks for the info Thomas_s!

Okay so the vote was in favor for 287.  and if we get it (the offer) back we sell.  

If we do not we hope for bob to fix/boost up to 3.3- 4.0


  http://www.dzminercoop.com/?page_id=302   this shows  1.8-1.9 gh      but it looks like 7 btc or 8 btc  has been  kicked into the pool.

  My estimate is we are around 10-12btc short even with the second add-on of btc.  

  First off thanks for info .
  Second off thanks for adding more btc.
  Third I am looking forward to a payout today so I could roll a bit more into r17.

Will this happen?
 If not I do have  enough for 1 more share.  I just grabbed 2 more shares of r17

But if the payout comes today I could get more like 4 or 5 more.

I just got  payout for the 15th  .

 0.76 btc for 11 shares.  thanks.

Payout seems stalled on a orphaned block? https://blockchain.info/tx/923e3c98d5a98c0a94c78e2912925188c0c4c343ac2e5d113ddecbd49b02e010
What happens with transactions then, never seen that?

That's R15/16, it was just included in a different block

R9-12 is still pending, it goes from 14minutes in Q to a few hours it will probably confirm in a few hours depending on blocks being found in the network.

there is a way to speed those confirms up a bit. I do this.


https://blockchain.info/tx/544fdc118b71bc632c069935e7bb485ccdea564eef0fc17a849de341aefc39a2 


the 1.64 I am moving   to coinbase  represents all of my coin paid today from  dZcoop.   


if you see the tx id you see I paid a fee  not a lot but a custom fee of .0011btc or about 1 dollar.   

What this does  is  force a speed up of the money that came in to my account.      Paying a small fee moves your priority up a bit.  It also helps for your tax return records.     

Yes we pay an auto fee based on what the program thinks is the proper fee we also do a mass send so we can't really control the fee paid(which does reduce the total payout for everyone)

yeah the little add fee of .0011 I paid is well worth it to me.  I sent the 1.64 to coinbase that I got from dZcoop

r5, r6 and r9-r12  all three were not confirmed but since I paid that .0011 the blockchain moves the priorty up on the 1.64 btc I sent  and in order to do that is has to move the priority up on the 3 payments you sent to me.  Plus I created a tax record for the IRS when I file this in Apr of 2014.  Not bad for 95 cents!

Thanks for the quicker payment  I grabbed all of r17 I wanted a total of 10 shares or 400gh.  thanks again.

Hmm well everyone thank philipma1957 for the quicker payment =)

well just bit quicker up the list.

 lets hope for bob to work some magic on this gear over the next week  to get the hash rate corrected.  I am also hoping for a run up on btc price  to occur as it would be nice.

Are the machines being reworked right now?  It's pretty late but the GH is showing under 700 at the moment.  Maybe it's the new software being loaded!

 now it is 900 arrow  and 500 knc.  so if you count the added btc yesterday.  the shortfall of btc is about 10-12. as of yesterday.  but for 1 day  sun to mon we mined under  1.5 th .

which is 1.8th short  that is about 1btc a day at the diff rate of 907 mill.  so this r9-r12 is about 11-13 btc short.  these are rough numbers, but close to accurate.

 I am hoping by the end of the week we get to 4th  this way the shortfall will shrink.   If we grew by 1 coin a day until weds. we would be at 13-15btc short fall.

 If we went to 4th and stayed there it would shrink down 9-11 by the next payout.  And if we just stay at the 4 vs the 3.3 the shortfall would be done sometime in jan.

bobsag3 is rebuilding the r9-12 hashrate *and* refunding those that were interested in being bought out.

The two goals didn't have to be mutually exclusive. There are more replacement parts/hardware on the way, and lots was learned along the way. Things learned now by both BA and bobsag3 will really benefit the Prospero launch in February IMO.

Thanks for hanging in there guys. As we've seen firsthand: Bullet Runs are about as bleeding edge as you get in the consumer marketplace.

Thank you DZ. Just to clarify for those that were interested in being bought out, would that be at the $287.50 price that was voted on earlier?

I would like to stay in if they are being upgraded and being tweaked.

I voted to sell but I too will stay in..

Thank you for the update.

I want to sell if we can still get the $287 per share, Do we have any idea what time frame were working with for selling?

  In the last few days:

   I purchased 8 shares of r17. -------------------1.20 btc
  I purchased 4 asic miner cubes.-----------------3.04 btc
 I purchased 5 ice fury usb sticks.----------------1.40 btc
I purchased 10 gh from cex.io --------------------0.75 btc

Sooo:

  I would not mind being bought out of this. At a decent price.  I have 11 shares of this. To dZcoop management   If you want to buy me out PM me with the offer.

No update on the sell price, but the first 1.6TH of replacement gear arrives tomorrow.

Thanks for the update. Does it look promising or still an unknown 50/50? Won't hold you to anything just asking..

very promising, just time zones are killer

Thanks. I am in a similar boat to philipma1957. I was not thinking about selling unil that huge offer was mentioned. Just keep up the good work and keep us posted. If something falls through it is not fair hold you to it. (Or really even possible).

Just great to hear you guys are still working so hard on fixing the hash rate!

Saw BA post on their Facebook today advertising their 16x Bitfury board. Was so tempted to grumble about our GB's experience on their thread, but it's not my place. Hope they're cooperating to the fullest extent to help you guys get their hardware working properly.

What do you mean? Can we get bought out if wanted?

is that offer still on the table? For buying out members. Please let me know. Thanks

I think it's on the last page but bobsag said it was 50/50 and timezones were a pain in the butt. :)

Wow,

This thing just started to kick butt. It just broke 3TH/s. It might have been higher, thats just where I caught sight of it. Thanks Bobsag3. Looks like this thing is back on its wheels or close to it!.

Dont want to speak too soon but it is evident you are working on it. Just in time to get in on some of the great pool luck.

okay bob has 3 workers that now total 3.570  if he gets it to 4.0 and it holds at 4.0 we will be able to drop the btc shortage  from 11-13 down to 0 in about a month.  nice work bob.


all fast ballpark numbers based on the 3.3 as our promised rate.

She just broke 4 with the Jupiter still on. Dont know how long we can use that and I am sure the owner would like it back at some point ;)

Try like 4.2 now.
Totals (All Active Workers)   4,204.79 GH/s   419,763k (99.80%)

just topped 4.305 !   so that is plus 1th  or .55 btc a day. for now  then .45 a day on  the next adjustment.

  good work.

"golden bobsag3"

Its probably going to settle in the 3.5-4.2 range, doing tuning and etc on the new miners, and not all of them have arrived yet

refunding people who wanted to sell and they still get to keep there shares?

how is this legit? people who didn't want to sell (like myself) and had faith that the co-op would make up missing btc and restore the hash rate to the promised numbers get the shaft on this one, not cool

I think the missing btc should be restored instead of a refund to the sellers

Miscommunication.

my apologies then, good work on restoring the hashrate!

Nice to hear some exciting news outside of the (much serious) dogecoin world. \o/

Much funny, LOL

 

 ;D

 :)

I'd prefer it if any offers were published in the thread, for everybody to see, not sent privately!

Cheers

Share holders can sell their shares at will to other members or anyone, provided the transfer fee is paid. From the looks of it we achieved the hashrate that was originally posted and until further notice (a good deal) the sell vote will be in 5-6 months like originally planed.

Thanks again for your work guys!

Loyalty to the coop++.

If you guys ever need a programmer just let me know. (I do C & web dev).

 Good I am tired of all the arguments this caused.  At the current rate of 3.8 th we will catch up  the shortfall eventually. I am fine with this.

Good job guys!  ;D

ftfy :D ;)

@Bob - thanks for your efforts. Much appreciated.

Good Guy Bobsag3 comes thru again!

Thank you for the offer davedx. Who knows? We may take you up on that offer sometime.  ;D

If you need to me help the technically ungifted through using a computer, apparently, that is my lot in life.  *sigh*

You've already been a big help to the Co-op before, so from one IT nerd to another, please don't sell yourself short.  :)

okay rough estimate of higher hash power  we have been averaging  4.0th for about 40 hours   and we were promised 3.3th.

very rough numbers the r17 was down 11-13btc at the start of the increase to 4.0th

  so we are over-hashing about .7th. at the diff rate of 908 mill   I will get back to that in 8 hours or 48 hours at the higher rate.


but 700gh at 908 mill is .3881 btc a day so in 8 hours we would be 2 days or .776 btc. gained on the deficit  of 11-13btc.

I will try to remember to post this at 6pm  east coast time today and every other day until we are caught up.

My guess will be we get there around my birthday  in late Jan.

I want to say dZcoop makes a really good effort to do the right thing. Thanks to all of you (+++ for bob)

    We ended up a 48 hour period at just about 4.0th  that is about .776btc shaved off the 11-13btc deficit   

I will try to do this again in 2 days.

Thanks, the job just has be burnt out and frustrated.  I will remember to keep the faith!  :)

I also offer my services as helping the technically ungifted, I'm not an IT-nerd so I wouldn't be selling myself short :p.

Answering FAQ like 'where do I enter my payout address?' or 'when will the machines start hashing?'. I read practivally every thread and post related to these groupbuys and have time to spare, so if I can help you guys reducing that support-ticket weight, let me know.

new diff will be close to 1180 mill  should come up in 3 hours of so.  this is  a 30-32% jump.   if we continue to hash at 4.0th  we will gain about .3 btc a day  on the shortfall of btc.  so 11 days will be 3.3btc add to  the .776 btc  we gained in the last 2 days and you are at 4 btc.

 the deficit was 11-13 so by next payout will would be short 7-9 btc.

 There will then be another adjustment from the 1180 or so that starts tonight.  Hopefully we can keep the 4th online.

A quick guess is we get ballpark close to 0 deficit  on the 25th- 30th of jan 2014.   To all of dZcoop thanks again.  


To of us miners lets hope for  higher btc prices in Jan.  

Hash rate dropped to  3.476   th from about 4th

 the part that dropped is the large worker  that is the black arrow part  it was pushing 3.4 it is now doing 2.85.

I missed the drop As I was busy from 8 am sat to 12 noon sun.      while 3.476 is a bit more then the minimum we were promised.  what concerns me is the section that dropped is the black arrow part.   hoping it gets solved today.

  It concerns me  if it keeps occurring because  dZcoop myself included has a lot riding on black arrow gear in r17 due in feb.  I do not want  black arrow to me known as the ''Fiat" of asic's      I am of Italian descent  so I can say Fiat = Fix it again Tony.  

 Although for us it has been Fiab =  Fix it again bob.

some off topic but very good news.

http://www.coindesk.com/overstock-unveils-more-details-bitcoin-adoption/ 


  if this goes well btc will stick around for years to come.

Had some issues with power strips, not gear related. Will be lower till replacements come in tomorrow (might also be able to push us past 4.3thash with this)

The Bob!

  Sweet

  FIAB!!

 Although I think it is going to stay fixed this time.

Good going, FIAB :).

Poor ole GG FIAB dealing w blowing up HW.  In Black Arrow's defense, their hardware worked fine; It's the integration with the rest of the "moving" parts that was problematic. I'm happy with the hardware itself.

These rounds have members which were especially patient so thank you everyone.

==

Merry Christmas everyone! If you celebrate or don't celebrate this holiday, my toast of good cheers to you and yours is still the same. I'm thankful for our customers and I'm thankful for you co-op members that have helped make this co-op the success it is today by helping us improve things over time and helping one another out with knowledge. 5 months ago I had no idea I'd form the biggest public co-op in the world for BTC mining.

It's an honor to be the founder and co-leader of a co-op full of so many like minded miners, and I'm both humbled by our success and very thankful to have met my co-leaders, which has resulted in round after round of world class values, and a crypto umbrella company founded upon the core of the DZ MC (with the co-op shielded as a sub-company.

Here's to a successful 2014!

Merry Christmas to all the DZMinercoop group buyers and a special thanks to the Coop leaders.
Best of Luck to all of us going forward.
Best Regards,

time for fiab, she has been down in 700s for 24 hours :(

WORKER 1 HASH RATE       0 Gh/s
WORKER 2 HASH RATE       694.983 Gh/s

WORKER 1 HASH RATE       0 Gh/s
WORKER 2 HASH RATE       714.988 Gh/s
WORKER 3 HASH RATE       503.332 Gh/s

Last Update: 6 minutes ago | plugin by mootinator

Something happened with one of the appartments we were using temp. to run the miners while I move, looks like the power company cut the power. Im currently at the airport, I should be back on site within ~5-6 hours, figure out what happened.

Seems to be creeping back up...I'm seeing about 2.6 now, hope no hardware got fried from the power problems.

3 more dead power strips. Whelp cant wait for my 240v server PDUs to get here.

Is there a BTC address to contribute to PSU costs?

Heh.
I need a powerstrip fund over a PSU fund...

Well, that too. Is there an address to send funds to help with incidental/sundries/etc that are directly related to keeping this GB running? Because I'd like to contribute. Quick, while it's still the season of giving! :D

 :)

I can make an address for anonymous donations to a power strip fund.

Before anyone says anything yes the workers are going offline, this is due to the move they will come back on once they are in the new warehouse.

Thanks for posting Thomas_s.. Message received. :)

Sure - please do! :)

http://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty  diff is set to jump about 18% from 1180 to 1393



although   this site thinks it will jump from 1180 to  1374  that is about 16%

http://bitcoincharts.com/


why the good news hashfast failed to ship. so we may get a second low jump in 12 days if they are the bs artists many people think that of them.

no real jump is due for the next 12 days so 1374 may go to 1580 in 12 days
  this would be   helpful to us here  a 16% followed by a 15% is good for this round.  was far too busy the last 14 days to track  what the btc loss is here.  but we lost ground from the last payout due to the power strip issue.  we had an average under 3.3 for the 15 days. 

Any news on dividends today?

They will be later today I'm finishing up some spreadsheet maint.

ok thanks.

How come the 24 hour BTC mined is 0.72?  Even at the somewhat lower current hashrate it should be mining a lot more than that.

The miners were down for a few hours while being moved, this lowers the BTC mined the past 24 hours as its just a simple xBTC / day.

Finally after 20 page refreshes of the 502 Bad Gateway error I can post


R9-12 is fully running.

I guess the hashrate on the webpage is lagging still or there are boards down again, what's it running at in total on your end?  The website is showing 1.7Thash right now.

it is back to 3 th.  I have been very busy the last 2 weeks. from the dec payout to the jan 1 payout I did not keep a full account of hash but we were up as high as 4.3 and as low as 1th.   here is a down and dirty estimate of the shortfall.  coming in to the period we were short around 10 btc across the 400 shares. more likely a littler higher but leave it at 10.  


my 11 shares  for the jan 1 payout were .54629  

 about .0496 a share  so 400 times that = about 19.86 btc or 20 btc was paid on jan 1

   so we hashed from dec 16 to dec 20 at a diff of 908 so  that is about 1.8 btc  a day for 5 days = 9 btc


we hashed from dec 21  to jan 1 at  a diff of 1180  that is about 1.4 btc for a day for 12 days  this comes to  about 16 btc

so 9 + 16 = 25 btc   we were paid 20 btc   so we were short around 5 btc add to the previous shortage of 10 btc = 15 btc short across 400 shares or close to

.0375  per share  in my case of 11 shares my personal shortfall is .4125 btc.     for this round.    this is a rough number   but not that far off.

 I am still a very happy camper with dZcoop   as I am ahead quite a bit of money.  but my r5+r6 has a small issue and this r9-r12 still runs short as I type. I am ahead a lot of fiat with dzcoop.  I am hoping these cliches get sorted out soon.

Well now it's 2.8thash, still a lot lower than before the move.  What happened?  I thought we finally had these hashrate demons beat but it's still underperforming badly :(

Noticed and thought the same thing. FIAB?

We have the new breakers going in, so the hash rate is going to fluctuate till we have them all moved over, then back up to the 3.5+thash lvl.

Man, using the money we're short you should have used some to bribe a friend to let you run it in their garage!  Which is basically what I'm doing when I get my new equipment.  We're getting 220v lines put into his garage/basement to deal with the new hardware...this stuff uses a ridiculous amount of power I'll tell you that much.  I don't even think we can add hardware past April because if we need any more power were gonna have to get a triple phase line run to the premises, lol.

Instead of normal power strips I think you have to invest in server farm distribution units.  Honestly if this insane garage basement plane works out I think to expand any more we'd have to pay for those crazy $20k APC backup and distribution units.  It's just not practical right now to buy battery backups because they're so f'ing expensive.

Any ETA on completion of the breaker work?

Was finished yesterday found out 2 of the replacements aren't working and will be troubleshooting them today

wow

I hope that r17 gear is better then this has been.

Out of the number that are good 2 not working is fairly acceptable

Just hoping R17 even ships close to on time.

Well, I hope that the reliability of Black Arrow's bitfury boards isn't a preview of how reliable their prospero boards are going to be, if they're as problematic as these have been it might be yet another nightmare to keep hashrate up.  At least there will be less boards but if a board goes out it'll be a huge hit to hashrate.

Problems are based on Bitfury + chainminer +rpis not ba's design or fab

Any updates on when we'll actually see the original hashrate goal?  It feels like nobody cares anymore.

I and (probably everybody) certainly still care. But I think everybody is of the opinion that the hardware as it is now will never sustain the desired hashrate. That and the fact that the difficulty has risen so much, that the absolute difference has dropped so much means that it's probably not of much use to keep an active discussion.

yeah that and the horse has pretty much died by now.  We should ask if we will be paid the btc owed come the 15th of jan. as it is a lot.

Approx how much per share is 'a lot'?

Cheers,

400 shares are owed about  13-15 btc as of jan 1.
 I have not done an estimate for the jan 1 to jan 13th short fall .

We ran short about 500 gh jan 1 to jan 13th

500 gh is about .168 btc  a day at  1418 diff so jan 2 to jan 12 is 10x that or 1.68btc

add that to 13-15 and we are short 14 - 16 btc divide by 400 .

  we are .035 btc a share   to .040 a share short.

 rough estimate not that wrong.

I'm surprised you guys haven't heard anything from the guys who run the coop about the shortfall..

When did this group buy end? Was it before they formed the LLC?

  They made 1 or 2 extra payments to keep it somewhat in control plus the round has made a usd profit. I am waiting for the payout on the 15th to see how it is handled.
They have expanded a lot and moved the mining center. During the expansion and move a few leaks in the ship or cracks in the china if you prefer that term have happened. Once again the world of BTC is giving me just a bit paranoia.

Just hope blackarrow have better support with the new hardware and also don't mine with it for to long before shipping out. From the pictures Bob sent back from his visit, they seem to have enough of the Bitfury boards running to have figured out how to make them work and at least try to get there customers what they sold them.
The Co-Op has done a great job so far in compensating the buyers these rounds, not sure what blackarrow has done to ease the pain.

With difficulty making big jumps again probably from pre-order hardware mining, these rounds are probably not going to produce much more in BTC.

Indeed. I'm in mining to make BTC profits, but this round is looking like a big failure for me. I'm hoping R17 will go better, but I don't have high hopes now.

I don't know how anyone is making a profit mining, especially when you factor in all the costs.

My future investments in BTC will probably be to just buy BTC.

+1 things started off good and we've had a few issues. I totally agree with davedx.

Just and update on the ROI. I invested 10 BTC and recouped 3.20 BTC. That's not including today's payment, if there is one. So yes, a bad deal for me as well..
Regards,
Brian

rounds 9-12 made more then 68000 usd. it was about 50000 usd in and about 120000 usd out

  it more then doubled the usd cost to create the setup.

 but if you purchased btc you would have done better.

 basically your  comparsion is I picked stock and changed 50000usd to 120000usd  but if I had picked stock b (buy and hold the btc) I would have changed  50000 usd into   400000 usd.

 but you would still be a failure since you did not sell the btc at 1200usd.  you would be saying I should have sold at the all time high


so rounds 9 to 12 are successful but not as successful as buying btc was.   far from a failure.

just not as good.  I only say this because every country in the world that charges tax would charge you tax on the profit made on rounds 9 to rounds 12.

Thanks for the added hash power!

Worker 1 Hash Rate       0 Gh/s
Worker 2 Hash Rate       2805.282 Gh/s
Worker 3 Hash Rate       523.49 Gh/s

ah back to normal. 

[/quote]

rounds 9-12 made more then 68000 usd. it was about 50000 usd in and about 120000 usd out

  it more then doubled the usd cost to create the setup.

 but if you purchased btc you would have done better.

 basically your  comparsion is I picked stock and changed 50000usd to 120000usd  but if I had picked stock b (buy and hold the btc) I would have changed  50000 usd into   400000 usd.

 but you would still be a failure since you did not sell the btc at 1200usd.  you would be saying I should have sold at the all time high


so rounds 9 to 12 are successful but not as successful as buying btc was.   far from a failure.

just not as good.  I only say this because every country in the world that charges tax would charge you tax on the profit made on rounds 9 to rounds 12.
[/quote]

well, when I made the decision to buy. It was that I would make more BTC than invested. I know the argument USD/BTC and so on.
Regards,
Brian

well fiat vs btc.  does get people going.

 But frankly almost no one has done roi mining in btc since last spring..


Of all of dz coops winners (in fiat) only  the knc r5+r6 is close to roi in btc.   And if we sold the knc from rounds 5+6 today it would be roi'd in btc.   as we could get 10k-14k  for the pair

The last gear that made roi easy in btc was anything from BFL if you got it before july 30th of 2013.  before that avalon made easy roi in btc.

my larger concern is the shortfall in hash/btc has not been addressed.   

 we got  a share payout of .02866 btc  today   times 400 =  about 11.464 btc



Jan 1 and Jan 2 are  diff of 1180 mill    we should have earned 1.406 a day x 2 =  2.812 btc

Jan 3 - Jan 13  are   diff of 1418 mill    we should have earned  1.170 a day x 11 = 12.87 btc

Jan 14 - Jan 15 are a diff of 1789 mill  we should have earned  .9274 a day x 1   =  .9274 btc  I won't count the 15th as it is a partial


 this is 16.6094 btc   vs 11.464 btc   that is more then a 5 coin shortfall

I'm interested in seeing how it is resolved as well..

Please don't forget this is 5 coins over the last 2 weeks plus the 11-13   we were already short.  grand total is around 16-18 btc.  or about .0425btc per share  .  now they have done a lot of work for us quite a bit.  and usd/fiat  wise  we made money on this round.

 but  r15+r16 is a bit short as is r5+r6..

 I worry about round 17 as the entire coop's future is kind of sunk into r17…  well time will tell.

 I also worry that if btc jumps from 850 to 3000 the 16 -18 coins here jump from

13600/15300  to 48000/54000 usd.

 the growing shortage here is now big enough to buy 5  ant miner s-1's.

Realistically, if we sold our hardware now, would we still make a BTC loss?

Cheers,

Thanks for keeping track of the BTC/USD and your analysis. I'm curious to see how things work out.
regards,
Brian

  well remember the numbers are based on 'normal luck'  so one can argue a bit higher or lower but the numbers are close.

they have made efforts to address this.  they made 2 payments of btc and they added a knc miner on and off. but lately  the last 2 payments no coin was added and we were short hash almost every day of the 30 days that were the last 2 payments.   we did have a few days of excess hash power. but it has been frustrating

Same here. When DZ was all over the forums pumping this co-op I kept saying there's no way it will have positive BTC ROI but decided to buy one share just to see and now am glad I only bought a single share as it's not even close.

Back to

Worker 1 Hash Rate       0 Gh/s
Worker 2 Hash Rate       2767.41 Gh/s
Worker 3 Hash Rate       0 Gh/s

well  roi in btc has been next to impossible since july of 2013.
very early BFL buyers clearly roi'd in btc.  very early avalon buyers roi'd in btc.
even group 5+6 with knc is almost roi'd in btc.

 I do not have any concerns about roi in btc .  If I did I would not mine.  for btc to work you need miners and you need investors in btc.  you can be both or be either one.
To complain is okay but  if everyone stopped mining this would die.  If everyone stopped buying the coins this would die.
        So to think this buy is a failure in btc roi it is. it is not a failure in usd/fiat.  frankly I don't care about that.

 i do care about the unaddressed shortfall in promised hash rate. if I had received full hash power I would had earned 11 shares x .04 btc = .44btc more then I have.

I'm really trying to understand this mindset. You are basically saying that you willingly donate your BTC to ASIC manufacturers. While I admire your altruistic desire to protect the network I don't understand what exactly you hope to accomplish by this. IMO this sort of belief is what creates an industry of ASIC manufactures that are always late and over priced since there are plenty of people willing to take a BTC loss so long as they have a fiat profit. I don't think it's a good model were investing in mining hardware is only feasible with a constantly increasing exchange rate...

well it's a learning lesson.. Will the co-op be making up for the shortfall? or are we going to eat the shortfall.

I personally don’t believe the co-op is responsible for poor performing hardware; any more responsible then we would be as individuals who could have purchased this hardware. If this hardware was sitting in your house who would you be holding responsible? I would be complaining to the re-seller and or manufacturer and making the issue very public until someone at least responds with a reasonable explanation or plan to correct the issue. The Co-Op has swapped out hardware for this round in an attempt to correct the issue, but I have always been off the opinion that blackarrow should have done or be doing a lot more to correct their bad hardware.

I would be very reluctant to purchase anything from BA ever again.

The problem isn't the boards themselves its the way the rpi's react with cgminer, chainminer and bitfury's

Thank you for your reply thomas.

I recall this being stated in the past. I must confess I did forget that this was the issue. This being said, it is very difficult to believe that they did not know this issue existed prior to or shortly after shipping. They did seem to have a lot of these running at their facility and should have had amply time to work out a solution by now. They are still selling these after all.

I know you have stated previously that the Prospero are different, but they are using rPi’s, so we are all hoping they have done their homework.

The problem happens when you run large stacks of them, chainminer begins to loose track of the work and basically just says F this, which is why it needs to be restarted.

We do have some smaller stacks running without issues w/ heavily modified software but some of the larger stacks are just a ton of work to even keep up for a day.
If you only have a few its not that bad, but R9-12 used about 50-100 boards.

I know this has been kicked around but would it be wise to part this hardware out and sell it now? If running many units at one time is an issue we would not be knowingly giving anyone "bad" hardware.

R9-12 was replaced with different boards.

Does that mean it can't be sold?
To be clear I do not understand the mind set of blaming the GB leaders for issues. We all knew this was a risky proposition when we signed up. Nothing in the BTC mining world in guaranteed. I think they have clearly tried everything possible to make good on the GHS per share. The fact is very little GB are going to ROI in BTC especially when hosted in a "real" data center. It must be almost impossible for a small group of guys to run this many GB's and everything be a 100% success.
Anyway is it possible to sell the equipment for USD? I like to ROI in BTC but this as well as many others have only ROI in USD.
It is what it is

I should add whatever the decision regarding their stance on ROI the GB leaders should post it sooner than later. Bad news is better than no news. Make a decision and hold the line.
DBA

yes, we should be check into seeing the ROI of holding the units vs. selling them. What is the anticipated payout for each share at the 1st? Does anybody have a guesstimate.. I know dumping hardware on eBay is a good way to get a good price. I've done that a couple times.. (Instead of selling it on the forums).

we have been doing 2.8th that is about .7869 a day for the diff of 1789 mill

 the 15th to the  24th would be 10 days or 7.869   the  next jump should be to 2050 mill we would earn about .68 a day for 6 days  say 4 btc a total of 10 -12 btc is close  for feb 1st.

Let's just sell the hardware, it's failling horribly.

The hardware has been up except one unit since the move almost 2 weeks ago

R9-12 used to be bitfury boards but they were sold and replaced with different equipment

Also, I found out one of the other workers problems, so we should be up to 3.2 now.
I am working on some forms of compensation for the loss, so I appreciate the patience.
I just really dont like jupiters, and I think the feeling is mutual.

 

   Bob you have done a lot of work to keep it going.  I want to thank you for doing that.

  I know when I ran 10-13 pcs and 23 gpus from july 2012 to july 2013  it was hard work.  my house was hot even in the dead of winter.  and I don't think I ever had all the pc's run non stop for more then 5 or 6 days.  on bad days constant tweaking. So I know your ops must be hard work.

+1

looks like the new design is up.. I am unable to login to the website now. I've tried a password reset and email not found. Please let me know what the status is.
Regards,
Brian

Make a new account

okay, I've made an account.. What do I do next? (previous customer of R12)
regards,
Brian

If you just want to browse the Group buy hashrates you can do it here. http://www.crypto-ops.com/?page_id=302 (http://www.crypto-ops.com/?page_id=302)

Thats to the r9-12. Select the round you want to look at in the upper right corner.

okay, I was able to login and see my account. Are we done mining or what's the status?
Regards,
Brian

If you are talking about R-9 R-12, we are still mining. Attached is a screen shot of the action. Thanks to mootinator!

                                             http://s15.postimg.org/pxmoep64r/r9_12_screen.jpg

good info to get a little more of an idea of our current earnings  go to this btc address from the screen shot above.



https://blockchain.info/address/1CR3h3SLewfcYK4XGySe4bgKwXV2VYqvVV  


 9 coins in it and this is our earnings from jan 15 to now.    so figure 5 more coins the 27th 28th 29th 30th 31st  1st   and this would be 14 coins maybe 15 coins.  after fees back down to 14 coins across 400 shares = .035 btc a share on feb 1st  all rough numbers.  but not far off.

    This is why with all complaints bitching moaning by lots of us about this round I don't go that crazy as this round has made fiat  taxable profit of more then  180 usd a share.    And if we get .035 btc more on the 1st at 800 usd a coin the profit in fiat will be 28 usd more or over 208 usd a share.

   So far almost no mining gear has turned an roi in btc since sept 2013.
 The exceptions are very early knc Jupiter's. 
 Other mining gear that made roi in btc very early BFL orders.
 Lastly some early Avalon orders.

I realize the argument of btc vs fiat roi   means plenty  to many people , but frankly  BTC roi has seem to be almost an impossible task  while many have made lots of fiat.
This round would not see a BTC profit but frankly as long as I make fiat profit I am happy.

okay thanks for the update. Am curious as to compensation and what the plans are for sale of the unit

we are up to 10.5 coins earned this pay period.  It is the 28th we have the 29th the 30th the 31st and part of the 1st to add to that number. I like you am interested in the gear we have 3th or so of gear.  what is this gear? thomas_S said will sold the black arrow and replaced it with other gear.

What are we mining with? what do we now own?

So we have 3.2th of what gear? I am curious  as to our replacement gear.



we are mining and the hash rate is over 3.3th which is great.  but what are we using?  hey I don't mind if it is a 20 s-1 antminers but I am intrigued

as to what is doing all the hash below?  especially since I still have 5 out of the 400 shares.

http://www.crypto-ops.com/?page_id=302

It's a mix but its mostly Antminers.

Much less problematic than the prototype board issues and the rPis blowing up.

Basically: if a mfg. puts out a good value that's reliable - we throw them a ton of BTC on the behalf of miners.

antminers are  a good choice for replacement.  when the time comes to sell them they will be easy to sell on ebay.  in general they have been reliable gear.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bitmain-Antminer-S1-180GH-s-Bitcoin-ASIC-Miner-w-PSU-/321303625991?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4acf304107



here they go for 2500   selling well on ebay.   


down the road  when we off load these  they will sell easy.

I really think that we need to look into selling this equipment.  The fees that we pay to the coop are still a reasonable percentage of the total mined BTC, coming in a bit less than 5%.  The next pay period, Feb.15, is going to be a much higher percentage and we will probably be at 25% or more by our Mar 1 payout. I know that we are still making btc at that point, but our equipment will be doing over a quarter of it's work just to pay our fees.

Selling Antminers on ebay sounds like it could be a very good idea right now.  I think that we, the miners, need to make this decision.  I know that the co-op organizers have worked very hard for us but their income doesn't change when difficulty goes up, only ours does.  They make $400 every two weeks whether we mine $20000 worth of BTC or $1000 worth.  We can't wait for them to suggest selling, we need to start to force this issue.

+1

well you have a point so far we mined 12 coins from 15th to now. go to 13.5 by pay day and pull off .5 we spilt 13 coins  that is 10400 usd.     if we put up 3.2 th in miners  lets say mostly s-1 we would be selling 16 of them   you can sell one right now for 2k on ebay easy sale   so that would be 32k   take off 10 percent in fees  your are at 29k.   lets say we get 1 robbed (ebay can be tough we would clear 27k  that is 33.75 btc

 or consider selling them on this site for btc 1.8 btc a machine x 16 machines =  28.8 btc or about 23k

I recommended on selling on the 18th and still think that is the best course of action. We need some input from the GB leaders to see if this is something we can move forward with.

I'm ready to cash these out. (Mind you I only count for 1/400).

Actually this is not true, the management fee is a percentage of total mined (0.5%), the hosting fee is what remains unchanged and well that fee is required to keep the machines active / powered.

As for selling the units that's fine if everyone / most people want to it will be added to the next payout (as the payout is on the first if the sale happens soon after the payout can be done early as there will be a large amount of coins in the wallet). I think we actually have someone that gave an offer today for all of them but I have to confirm the price.

Thanks Thomas. Please pursue that offer and find out a concrete price. Also, it was mentioned that the plan was to sell namecoins once there was a decent number. When are you thinking of selling them?

We were actually talking about it earlier today when the offer was given, and I was bad and forgot the numbers I think I know them but don't want to give the wrong information.

Namecoins last they were sold was about a month and a half ago I'll check what the balance is on the account and do a sale to include in the next payout (on the 1st)

I'd vote (5 shares) to sell at this point.

Thanks again for your hard work guys. Wish BTC mining had worked out less shaky for me :)

   I am with dave on this.  I vote my 5 shares for sell off the s-1's  put them up for sale right after we get the feb 1 payout.    or combine the payout and the sale .   3.2th  in hand is worth about 28-35btc  and the pay out is about 13 btc   so 1 last pay off for 41-48 btc across 400 shares comes to .1 btc - .12 btc each share.

ditto, lets sell and cash out

The only problem I see with your calculation is, BITMAIN is selling now for 1.45 shipped  https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140107162747992Ce5uBuxW06D6 (https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140107162747992Ce5uBuxW06D6). Might want to consider a little lower price point than 1.8. I know it was inferred to sell e-bay, but if you want to sell on this forum I think it should be lower than 1.45. I have no proof but I believe BITMAIN will be dropping prices again soon.

I have 10% of this round and dont really care if it sells now or not.

Just something to ponder.

Sorry thomas forgot to post it- We were offered 28BTC, with the stipulation that the transaction be completed by monday. This is BTC that is on hand, and can be added to the payout on the first to close this out. If we chose to go this route, I will waive tomorrow's hosting fee, adding as little extra to the payouts. ~.07BTC per share around there.

That offer sounds more than fair to me so If you are holding a vote, my vote of 40 shares says;  Sell!

This would close a chapter in DZminer CO-OP history. And in my opinion a nice one!

I also vote to sell for my 7 shares. Thanks for all that you do bobsag.

I vote to sell with my 4 shares. I think there is enough interest in selling that an email should be sent out for an official vote. Let's get this done!