Bitcoin Forum

Today, I saw Trust issues of Vod, and Hhampuz. Vod has contributed lots of thing to bitcointalk.org community, whilst Hhampuz has been one of the most reputable campaign managers in the forum. Both of them actually contribute lots of things, so what's wrong with them last hours?
They both received negative feedback from teeGUMES, that in turn results in ?? ? in their Trust.
Additionally, Reference in Hhampuz's  Trust page leads to this topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5140813.0, that does not relate to things mentioned in feedback. It looks like back-and-forth negative feedbacks.
https://i.imgur.com/kP4wzpU.png
https://i.imgur.com/9QmeNYE.png

Theymos' opinion:

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Is this one of the most vulnerable things of Trust sytem, and easily to abuse and do personal attacks?

OG deserves to have his personal info leaked, that tax evading scamming piece of shit.  People are just scared because he is holding forum funds. many are afraid to challenge him fearing that he will  "lose it to a "hacker"

Why is this in Meta and why do you feel the need to stir this drama further? PM teeGUMES if you're curious.

I don't consider my personal stance on 'doxxing' a personal attack on any of these members. I think a precedent needs to be set and this should be further frowned upon. Many people have been killed/murdered from public doxxing whether it was correct or incorrect. The dox post also conveniently included the fact that OgNasty was holding onto 500bitcoin, this is extremely dangerous and I actually fear for whomever lives at the address that Vod had posted.
We have law enforcement all around the world for a reason. Let them do their jobs.
Even though personal information is allowed in the Investigations sub forum, the question should remain "Should it be?"

I have nothing further to add and I am surprised more people haven't risen up to speak out about this.

You shouldn't be red-trusting people for sending merits though. That's fucked up.

go red tag all those other investigation threads then, people are posting a bunch of personal info on people. OG is a scammer, he deserves to have his public info leaked.

Trust is unmoderated.
If you think teeGUMES feedbacks are inaccurate then create your own custom trust list and exclude him.

I agree with this 100%. Teegumes you wanna tag Vod for creating the thread that's on you but tagging users for meriting it is ridiculous.

So you both think that a pat on the back in the form of merit for doxxing someone is trustworthy behavior? I understand the people that I have left red tags for are great respectable people and if merit could be removed I would have personally asked them to remove it before it even got to the tagging.. but that isn't an option currently. If someone ends up hurt or worse at that location do you think these people would still want their name at the top of the post that potentially caused it?

Those useds did not start the thread period. They merited it. Maybe they share Vods opinion, maybe they're just ass kissers. We do not know, but no reason for the tag on those who haven't posted a thing in the thread.

Of course I don't agree with meriting any post in that section for doxing but i do not feel its tagworthy.

I think theymos should disable merits for that section and maybe clear all the merits given for doxxing.

In general, theymos does not strongly support ideas to give negative trust on merit issues, if it is not serious merit abusements. If it is reason of such red trust, it was inappropriately used because I don't think that sending 1 to 3 merits to a post should be considered as merit abusements.

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I don't have intention to involve too much with Trust system, so I don't have intention to customize my Trust list. I would prefer to use Default Trust system. And, theymos emphasizes many times that Trust should be used for things relate to trade/ exchange.

Your red trust doesn't solve any of that. It just discredits the trust system and shows you're not fit for DT1.

Merit is not an endorsement and not "a pat on the back" despite your dictionary quote. On this forum it's a "good post" mark. Whatever those users were thinking, EVEN IF THEY'RE WRONG, it is inappropriate to use red trust to show your disagreement.

Here is part of response to me a while ago when I was paranoid about people giving me red trust for merits that I may give.


I have taken the liberty to bold the pertinent part in your particular case. Therefore, I have distrusted you. Your actions of red trusting people for a post that they merit is not acceptable, at all.

It is interesting to see so many supporters of public doxxing. The merit they left is nothing more than clear instigation. You know it and I know it.
Wait til an investigation takes place and if a conviction for a crime happens, sure go nuts.. I'd even commend Vod for a job well done(with some merit)

imo this would be the best thing to do here:

edit: to add, your bolded part says "for something stupid other than..." please include where you think public doxxing falls into the something stupid category

My actions against you has nothing to do on whether I support Vod's doxing post or not. As a merit source, I am not going to be hampered on my merit giving with having to take into consideration whether or not someone on DT is going to give me red trust or not. This is not acceptable.  >:(



You forgot to include the important part.

I have also distrusted his views on morality for calling people who like my posts scammers.  He is now at -1 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;dtview).

OG will prob trust him simply because he dislikes me, so that will keep him in DT1, where he does not belong.  :(


It needed to happen.  It could not happen on this forum.  There is no accountability for lying here.

OG says he will sue me for defamation.  QS says he has (maybe) reported me to the police.  Thule threatens to sue everybody.  BUT NOTHING HAPPENS AND THE BULLSHIT CONTINUES!  I took a stand and will take responsibility for the outcome.

That being said, I should not have posted his physical address on this forum.  But anyone who wanted it could get it easily.

Nonsense. I don't "know it". I don't support doxing OgNasty. And now you're out of DT, which is a shame.

 You simply distrust the user if you do not approve the user's action but giving feedback on it is not the correct approach.

Doxxing comes under the forum policy rules, if you do not agree with that post then use "Report to Moderator" and let them decide.

True, it is much like sarcasm over the internet.. hard to distinguish. DT means nothing to me tbh and in the future I will continue to take a stance against public doxxing before an investigation happens. Yes there are past cases I have clearly missed but this one has taken over multiple threads and countless posts so it was very hard to miss.

I understand where many of you are coming from with your statements and I don't fault you for it, but I would hope the conversation here might lead to bettering the forum. We are talking about two very prominent members of the community going pretty much nuclear here.. Vod appears to be taking it through its courses and to the end so time will tell.

Thanks all for your input, I think something needed to happen to spark a conversation like this. For the merit tagging I am open to communicating with the individuals.. I'd like it to be known that if it was "you" in the same situation I would have your back until it is proven that you were indeed doing something criminal.

I was disgusted by the reckless and vicious doxing in this case, where:
 - The evidence was very thin.
 - Even if all of the allegations were true, it'd likely result only in civil penalties, not criminal.
 - The whole thing was motivated merely by past arguments. OgNasty never caused Vod to even lose anything, as far as I know. An utterly ridiculous & disproportionate escalation.
 - It's based on the premise that purely statutory crimes are directly unethical, which I don't agree with at all, though I'm willing to mostly look past this as subjective.

It's good that Vod came to his senses on this after the fact, though doing it at all certainly blemishes his reputation in my mind, and I added to my notes the fact that those users merited such a post. Meriting it is saying basically that we need more posts like this on the forum, and we do not need more posts like this on the forum.

Red-trusting Vod over this is an appropriate usage of red-trust, since his actions here are highly trust-relevant. But I tend to think that since he edited his post and seems to genuinely regret at least the public doxxing part, it'd be best to forgive.

For the meriters, I can understand the argument for red-trust, but I tend to think that it's at the wrong level. If the meriter was meriting it because they were actively thinking, "I want to make the forum really vicious, where everyone is constantly tearing each other apart for stupid things, and this post moves in that direction," even that's not really a trust-relevant motive, just a very unhelpful motive. And probably the meriters were thinking more innocent things than that.

I would have spoken individually to each meriter if it were possible to remove their merit from the post. It is true I can not prove or disprove their intentions at the time but if anything happens to the individual at the residence that was posted I could see law enforcement somehow tying them into it, at the very least questioned.. I believe by bringing this up with the meriters I would have been able to have them retract their merit if they could.
In this case I think it better to erase that post from history to protect those four members.. possibly disallow merit in that sub section so we don't run into this in the future. I would have much preferred talking to them and coming to a better conclusion but the inability to withdraw merit is what led me to my red trust rating.

You should check out the repeated doxing in my untrusted feedback someday.  :)

Thanks Theymos!  :)

Neg.-rating someone just because they sent out 1 merit is completely backwards and proper trust abuse in my view. It's similar to political de-platforming.

Couldn't have said it any better myself..

So far I have not yet decided to employ the trust system in this case but it has crossed my mind as well, and I am not finished thinking about it.. I am quite off-put by this doxing and reporting to the IRS, by the perpetrator and also, but to a somewhat lesser extent, the supporters of these actions, as I have noted in my recent posts..


It may not be neg-worthy on its own but it sure lets you know where they stand..

As I had said, I would have much preferred having some sort of forum tools to address this in a completely different way. My red tags have never been permanent but I felt like this was the closest tool available to get my point across/initiate change. All the right eyes are on this topic right now.. instead of trying to hang me, lets figure out how to fix this. You think I wanted to red tag some of the best members on various boards? I've slept on making this decision for a few days now.

-- probably last post of mine on this topic, like fuck I'm going to go in circles all night with Lauda

So what about it? IMO plenty of people could anonymously DOXX and/or anonymously support the DOXX-ing of Og. I'm not allowed to merit such a thread? Objectively it took effort to create regardless of whether it is right or wrong, and that's how merit should be used. Don't use your morality and nepotism to pollute the system.


I won't tag Vod for this action and I'd certainly counter any ratings on all the meriters. The DOXX has already been removed. This action won't prevent future DOXXing. All the right eyes on this thread does what exactly?

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Typos.

Two separate things.   One was needed, the other was not.

For the record, teeGUMES contacted me and explained some things.  If I am allowed to make a mistake, so is he/she.  :)

Attempting to use the IRS as a weapon, via a which hunt, against someone and doxing are very distasteful to me. One minute merit is for constructive posts, the next it is for "took effort", the next it is a like button, the next it is an agree button, and then it's for something interesting, whatever.. We all know it is for good posts that you support most of the time no matter what you want to call it and supporting bad actions is not good in my view, or cryptohunter would have a million merits for all that effort, so I have also taken note of and mentioned supporters, like Theymos has..


The right eyes on this situation help to ensure justice and morality.
You won't tag vod for this because you do the same thing, doxing a person to others, threatening to report them to the IRS, harassing their family, in a which hunt, obviously..

Quoted and archived (https://archive.fo/f8xlh#selection-4343.0-4343.177) your lying. No wonder you support political games; you're dishonest yourself. I've tackled this stupidity on the next level, and have given them positive ratings and will counter any political leftist censoring by eddie et. al. There's no need to further discuss with ad hominem baboons like yourself.

After having a grown up conversation with Vod, we both understand eachother's side and have had the edited dox post in Investigations deleted. I have removed my red ratings from the merit posters. If a different tool were available to achieve this same effect I would have used it, it was never my intention to tarnish the great work that the four individuals do every day on this forum. If no tool ever appears I will act no differently in the future, your exclusions may remain and you will not be excluded in retaliation.

Now, the question is clearer. If I did not start the topic, we would have not seen the following post of theymos, that help us have better overview on admin's stance on Trust system, roles of DT members, and the way Trust / feedbacks works. It's only better for the forum, I believe. At the start, I believe that something inappropriately used with such feedbacks, that's all.

Fair enough, the thread did eventually serve a purpose. Thanks for pointing out this debacle.

I saw a thread in which OgN was apparently doxed but as of when I saw it, the dox was removed. The thread in question appears to now have been removed. Is this about the same thread?

It appears Vod claims OgN doesn’t pay appropriate taxes based upon the fact that he calls various payments to him “donations” which is obviously hogwash. The “donation” description is a marketing tool (a counterproductive one IMO, but how OgN markets his services is up to OgN). The “donation” description in relation to nastyfans is probably more accurate, however this is a very complex issue that would likely be the subject of litigation if the US government were to ever get involved (I don’t think they will based on the amounts involved, and based on the fact set).

As I mentioned previously in another thread, Vod has a history of using doxes as a weapon against people he doesn’t like. He also doesn’t do any real research to confirm the accuracy of the doxes he receives and as such he likely posts doxes of random people who have never interacted with Vod in the past.

As an example, Vod posted what he thought was my dox years ago in an effort to try to get me to leave the forum because I was critical of him. He initially posted what he believed to be my first name in an effort to intimidate me, which I didn’t pick up on because it was wrong. After he posted what he believed to be my full dox, including what he believed to be my address, multiple reputable people who have felt with me posted his information was incorrect (and no one publicly said his information was correct). After being told he had bad information, he contacted who he believed to be my employer in an effort to get me fired, except it was also wrong. His source was an account with multiple recent trust ratings indicating the account was recently sold. In other words, Vod received his information from an anonymous source, was refuted by multiple reputable people, did zero due diligence, and proceeded to try to get the person fired on the small chance it was me, al because I was critical of Vod.


If Vod received merit on a post in which OgN was doxed, this is an example of a flaw in the merit system.

Yes.

No, unless you want to censor what opinions, statements or other people's actions are allowed to get merit.

(appropriate use of a double post).

You quite literally did exactly this to zeroaxl, having even less evidence he was not paying taxes.

I did not do any such thing; do not post lies about events just because they happened a long time ago. His post deserves red trust but these policies nowadays.. Maybe my reputation got scammed? :shrug:

It's an example of someone meriting a post you don't like. You'll get over it.

You have an active imagination... you sure about that chain of events, dog?

And LiveCoin is sponsoring that post?  :/

I am loving how everyone's priorities are in order here. Forget the threats to the lives and freedoms of forum members, some one left a bad trust rating! This place is a fucking joke, especially all of you spineless twats sitting atop the trust list who condone this type of behavior by doing nothing about it. Enjoy the total disintegration of the community, you earned it.


This is fucking hilarious as you literally attempt to get your political opponents locked up you decry people leaving little red ratings as political de-platforming. Such virtue!





How many times are we going to go thru this with this little mentally ill wannabe Stazi agent? Frankly I am ashamed at you most of all Theymos. You talk about condemnation but every time he or people like him do shit like this they get a pass from you and they do it again and again continually escalating because that's what mentally ill control freaks like Vod do. By giving him a pass on this for what, the 17th time you have officially made this forum a total fucking joke. Congratulations on jumping the shark and making a complete mockery of every standard you pretend to uphold. HEIL THEYMOS!

That is exactly what happened. No imagination is required because there is evidence to back it all up.

If you post so.  People trust you. ::)

Didn't someone else pubilcy doxx OG a while back and Like with photos and everything if I remember right. And nothing happened to them

There is a rule somewhere, that theymos dox can't be posted,, should that rule be expanded to include all bitcointalk staff members, and those receiving payment from the fourm. IE, fourm treasurers and cryptios

Pictures? Yes, doxx? Don't think so.

No it should not otherwise one will end up with their DOXX everywhere off-forum where it can't be removed. Don't anger the beasts.

That sounds like the single most flimsy criteria for usage of the merit-system that I can think of. Do not use your morality, or value-judgement to decide which posts you would like to see more of; simply merit posts that objectively "took effort". That has got to be a joke that had terrible delivery. If we were to use that criteria, then every try-hard newbie that spends an hour on their scheme to earn merit with a worthless post would be successful.

It would take effort to break into the address that was provided, but does that mean the action should be condoned? Maybe we should merit it, if they give us a play-by-play in a thread! So long as it took some effort.

The criteria has always been more than "effort".

On top of all of that, Nepotism is allowing a member to get away with something because of who they are. I can't imagine someone else walking away unscathed after DOXing and endangering the lives of multiple people; let alone be told that receiving merit for doing so is appropriate.


It's more an example of someone encouraging another user to endanger the lives of potentially innocent bystanders.

Where I am from, if you scream to the public "That guy has a lot of money! This is where he sleeps!" guess who ends up naked and robbed in a burning building? It doesn't matter if he actually has money, or if that's even where he sleeps. It's not cute and it is not a game; you can get people hurt like this.

teeGUMES was just made an example of by those that really control DT. Theymos blessing will do nothing to save him now or in the future. He is marked. His back peddling now will not help him they will remember this.

This repeated "fuck off" to theymos from Lauda is quite strange. Only the other day we asked Lauda why he was saying he will ignore theymos's instructions to use red trust for scammers and those present a case for STRONGLY attempting to scam.

He said theymos is now the student and he is the master?

How does Lauda get to just repeatedly just give theymos the finger and get favor still? GRAY my ass. The scammers here can THANK lauda for pushing the threshold for being RED to a level most scammers would feel guilty of reaching lol

and yet she calls herself THE RED TRUST QUEEN - ffs this forum is a laughing stock to those that KNOW the REAL history of this individual. Having one of the most notorious liars, scammers, extortionists , shady escrows giving out red because you present observable instances in its past?  what a hilarious joke. A scam tag for warning about scammers. The inverse trust system.

This tight group of colluding scum (each with clear instances of observable financially related shady behaviors) and their tight knit supporters need blacklisting.

What do they have on Theymos that is preventing him blacklisting these dirt bags?

Just blacklist them all or delete DT Theymos. If these people are willing to give you the middle finger over and over in public like this then you need to take away their power before they destroy the entire forum.

They are clearly employing double standards here. One of their main arguments for red is that you "may" reveal some traders address. They red trust people for selling accounts but not their pals who try to sell theirs, or they red trust people for presenting observable instances from their post histories they want remain hidden.

This idiot VOD has been bullying OG with his group of colluding scumbag pals for weeks now. He gave us RED TRUST because we deleted a post of his that for the 3rd time accused OG nasty of being a liar when we said he needs to present evidence to continue making such claims. [size=12pt]So if you present observable instances of their wrong doing you get red trust. If you ask them to present evidence and not just make false claims you get red trust?? wtf is this system?  all the time you have idiots like foxpup showering their double standards and abuse with merits?? Others make a post that is truthful and honest and you come in and REMOVE their merits??[/size]
We asked if hhampuz openly supports these scammers and liars and got red trust for investigating it and presenting observable instances of their shady behaviors and these same bunch came running with red tags claiming defamation and then NOT EVEN DISPUTING the observable instances because they simply can not.

Now any DT1 that dares to red trust them is removed by the "gang" of untrustworthy colluding scum you allowed to infiltrate DT1.

Theymos do something about these people as we have been asking you for an age. You created some strange systems of control and just assume these kinds of people will do what you tell them and act for the best for the forum not themselves?? please be sensible.

How hard can it be??  Just tell ALL DT

1. If you red trust someone that you can not present STRONG case is a scammer = blacklist
2. If you are presented with a STRONG case someone is a scammer you must red trust them or = blacklist
3. Any DT that is found to have any financially motivated shady behavior (ever) = blacklisted.


Pushing OG to remove laudas legitimate scam tags left him MORE vulnerable. Those that previously would have certainly supported him against this kind of public bullying have not been as vocal in his support since he seems to have made a deal with the devil.

We are VERY encouraged with your opinions regarding this OG bullying and doxxing but still you are NOT going far enough. Kick these dogs off DT and blacklist them. You don't need to be a genius to see who is colluding with lauda, tman, owlcatz, hhampuz, ieoeio, vod, foxpup (this merit abusing idiot) (suchmoon to a lesser degree but still is bullying OG) , and others all ass kissing them and trying to get into DT and merit source and HugeBlackWoman. They all rally round each other as soon as one is called out.

You are shaming this board letting observable scammers and liars infest DT and use their powers (you gave them) to bully and defame honest members.

This is a trust system right?  whatever they have on you, just call their bluff. Fuck them, the board will support you if you clearly do what is right.

These people are bullies and untrustworthy scum? how did they get on DT in the first place?

If anyone did any real research on VOD you would find some quite disturbing and troubling accounts. To let him bully someone like OG who has been keeping the forums btc safe for a long time is outrageous.

I guess I can't really deny having double standards when I merited both Vod's post and teeGUMES's post complaining about it (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5142064.msg51006646#msg51006646). I stand by my merits, and am prepared to accept the judgement of the community in this matter (which is why I've felt no need to say anything about it until you appeared spouting your usual nonsense accusations).

I respect you Foxpup!

Don't spew exaggarated bullshit. It takes about 25 seconds for decent tech-savy person to find OgNasty and his plot. The DOXX was unecessarary, but nobody has been endangered as the information is out there and easy to find. The rest of your emotional response is uninteresting.

This is correct, I'm sure thermos can confirm. :D

Make sure to apply the same high standards when Og's lapdog doxes random people for spurious reasons, even outside of Investigations.

Merit is not an encouragement or anything of the sort. It's an opinion at most, and not necessarily an opinion agreeing with the post being merited. Let's calm down with the exaggerations.

Well Hhampuz rating is back to normal now. Too bad that things had to escalate this way. Seems that all this could have been avoided had all the tagged parties talked to each other before. Decisions made when someone is angry and not thinking with a clear mind can create a lot of issues.

It's not tag-worthy, and I don't think Theymos wants negative trust being handed out for differing opinions, and certainly not for merits you don't think should have been given based on the opinion in the post that was merited.  That's bullshit.

Vod and Hhampuz are both well-respected members of bitcointalk and don't deserve a tag for this drama--especially not Hhampuz, who isn't even directly involved with it anyway.  These new DT members really need to learn feedback etiquette, and learn it quickly if they expect to stay on DT for long.

Good.  And yeah, there was no reason for this side drama to happen at all.

I get where you're coming from, but I don't think anybody's life was endangered because of this.  I don't know what the crime statistics are for assaults/murders/robberies/whatever post-internet doxxing, but I'm guessing those things happen very rarely.  Some of the wealthiest people in the world have at least their addresses public, so if anyone wanted to rob or kill them, they'd be easy enough to find--but it doesn't happen a lot.  I don't think OgNasty's dox being made public is going to provoke anyone to do anything stupid (I assume that's what we're talking about here). 

Every single DT1 member sat idly by while someone was publicly doxxed over a ridiculous arguement that escalated out of control. More action happened when hhampuz's trust rating turned into orange ???s. I think it's time you get your priorities in order. You guys are a laughing stock.

The people who are whining about users getting endangered are the very same people that kept quiet when Hhampuz was fully doxxed. Oh the hypocrisy. What goes around comes around. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hooo boy look at how bad that looks. Hhampuz went through a similar full doxx but thinks meritting someone elses doxx is the correct order of action.
Everyone here is so scared to speak out with an unpopular opinion because you few spin it to try and make them look badly or unfit for DT.
It's not working this time. You guys are finally showing your true intentions. Form an echo chamber, remain in power.

Point?

There is no "you guys", if you believe otherwise you are delusional. Most people that did speak out now are just disgusting hypocrites. I don't see your negative on the person who doxxed him, surprise surprise. ::)

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Hypocrite.

The mental gymnastics that are performed on this forum daily are impressive. What makes the Dox unacceptable and unnecessary is because it endangers the people involved.
So then the difficulty of acquiring the information is our standard? That sounds as half-baked as meriting solely based on effort.


More of this beat-around-the-bush game-play. I wasn't around when the situation with Hhampuz occurred. If you think that absence is equivalent to hypocrisy or support, then we've got nothing to talk about. Assuming you're talking about me, I'd love for you to back up your claims that I am acting hypocritically. I wouldn't support Hhampuz being DOX'd either.

I like the use of qualifiers, "fully doxxed", as opposed to what?
When you share private information about somebody and proclaim that they are hoarding valuables you are endangering them.



Side-Note: It's funny to me that one moment you're saying it's okay to merit posts based on effort, and then in the next breathe you are talking about how it's acceptable to post the information because it required nearly no effort. Doubly funny when you're talking about the same post for both.


I'd be willing to bet that you are more likely to be a victim of a violent crime after your dox, and financial information has been posted publicly when comparing it to before the information was released. Which is my point, there is an increase in danger for no justifiable reason.


Things like that happen every single day. When a burglar wants to rob your house, they go through a vetting process and posting information like this makes their job entirely too easy.

I'm not trying to be a drama-queen, but for some reason you're all acting like privacy and security are not the primary protectors of your well-being. Yeah, some of the richest people in the world have their addresses public, but I'd be willing to bet the attempts on their life, robbery attempts and the cost of general security have risen astronomically since their address became public.

Anecdotally, this happened to my grandfather after someone elsewhere on the internet had intentions of doing something similar to me (DOX). The house was broken into, robbed, smashed around, causing massive damages. Thankfully they were on vacation, otherwise what would have happened?

We can't just brush this off as an exaggeration, I'm not making an emotional appeal when I say there are millions of people who would kill just to put their foot in your doorway. Why play with fire and then tell me I'm exaggerating by warning about a house-fire?



I don't even know what you're talking about, we're not all as involved, but I happily would apply the same standards to anybody DOXing anyone for any purpose other than it is necessary for the forwarding of a proper investigation.


Merit is not an opinion. You can give merit out based on your opinion, but it is not in itself an opinion. Merit is a +1 that enables users to rank-up, which would mean it is an incentive for whatever they have posted to earn that merit. I guess when you give a dog a treat, you're not necessarily agreeing with their opinion, but you are encouraging them to do whatever they think they did to earn that treat. The dog wants their next snack, like a newbie wants their rank-up.

Meriting definitely doesn't mean that you condemn the post. The post should have been universally condemned, and any defense for this kind of behavior is the problem right now.

It's irrelevant that Vod came to his senses after the fact.    We know thousands of people saw that post and likely dozens of people copied or saved that information.   Deleting his post did not undo what was done.  He literally risked lives by posting an address and basically said "hey, there's 500 BTC at this location".   It's an insanely dangerous precedent to set.  What happens when an innocent person or even a child is hurt due to a home invasion because of a post like this?  Nearly 3.5M USD is a lot of incentive for a bad person to attempt something terrible.

There was no reason for it, as you already stated.  Ognasty isn't running for president as far as I know so his taxes should be no one's business but OG and the IRS.   The feigned outrage is comical.   No one cares about OG's taxes, they just want to hurt ognasty.

Quicksy doxing owlcatz as an example. Every piece of shit scammer doxing Vod for any reason or no reason at all. Not a peep from any of you outraged citizens. Because we all think that Vod doesn't keep 500 BTC under his mattress, is that what it is?


Ok, now we're splitting hairs - if I say "I think this is a good post" - is that my opinion or my words based on my opinion? Makes no difference to me. The rank-up thing is a nice bonus but doesn't have to enter the decision process of the merit sender. Agreeing or disagreeing with the recipient is irrelevant.

There is a bit more to the scale than just "CONDEMN" and "ENCOURAGE". I disagree with the dox. I wouldn't have merited that post. But I don't think those who merited that post deserve red trust and I'm disappointed in teeGUMES' (and yours) continuing mental gymnastics trying to blow this out of proportion. I refuse to start sweating for the 15k merits I sent so that someone somewhere could find one of them objectionable and decide to red trust me for that.

The question here now becomes what have the long term DT1 members been doing about this rampant doxxing? Has there not been a large enough stance taken on it to prevent future doxxing? Obviously not with all these examples you and Lauda are bringing up.

My record is 1-0 currently. I was only DT1 for a week, but I seen something wrong and I decided to do something about it. In the end I achieved what I set out to do and the post was deleted. If I'm never DT again I wouldn't care, in my very short time I have done more to set a precedent against doxxing than any of you have in the long time you've held your position. It's just unfortunate some highly valued members decided merit for doxx was an okay thing to do.

I generally don't read through reputation threads, which I've made clear several times. I can't talk about something I have never even heard of. I am against every instance of DOXing that I have ever come across. I don't think it matters if anyone actually has 500 BTC under their mattress or not, if you say they have it someone will believe you and maybe someone that believes you is willing to cross that threshold into violence based on the potential payout or simply because they have a vendetta.


That would be you using your words to express your opinion. Similar to how you use merit, except you are limited in your expression if you choose to do so with merit, because it only goes one way (up/positive). "The rank up-thing" was the entire purpose of implementing the merit system. It literally effects nothing other than user-rank, so if you are using merit without that in mind then you are operating with an abstract concept of the merit system that almost nobody else would share.

You can't say "I think this is a bad post" with merit. Words are more variable than merit and comparing them is a painful exercise.

We're not splitting hairs.. That seems to be what you're doing, while you pretend like there can be a connotation to merit that is anything but positive. Sending a merit to another user is interacting with their post in a positive manner. You're trying to pretend like merit is neutral, but that's not even close to the case. Words can be used to express an opinion that is negative, positive, neutral or any other descriptor you can fit in there. Receiving merit cannot be seen as a negative and you cannot convince me that sending merit is used negatively.



The only claim that I've even made is: pointing at a house and saying "there's a lot of money in there" is endangering the people in that house. What have I blown out of proportion?
I haven't encouraged those that merited the DOX to be given negative reputation, in fact I disagree with that approach personally, although I do think it would be fair for Vod to receive negative reputation based on being the Doxer. I'm confused how that negative reputation would be seen as "trust abuse", "merit censorship" or whatever else it is being claimed to be.

owlcatz is a conspirator to an extortion scam (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1764757.0). Owlcatz getting doxed will hopefully lead to him being held accountable in one way or another via the legal system for his crimes. It should also serve as a warning to others who are considering participating in an extortion scam. Owlcatz getting dox'ed was entirely appropriate.

This is very similar to part of the basis for extorting zeroaxl. There were many baseless claims against zeroaxl, but one of them was that he was not paying his taxes appropriately based on an old post in which zeroaxl asked a tax related question.   

Exactly why you correctly noted the merit score metric is meaningless and totally inappropriate to base a TRUST system upon it.
The vast majority of merit given out by this bunch to each other is in support of their shared agenda and protection of their gang members. Pull up ALL of their past meriting of each other and start going through it all. This comment by suchmoon is deceptive and intentionally misleading.

Lauda is down playing the danger VOD has put OGnasty AND the board at.  

1. People may have not been looking at OGnasty and been privy to the information vod has been shouting about for ages. (increased incentive)
2. People may not have known where to look for his doxx or had the incentive before

Now however,

1. More attention to OG over all of this and more incentive to be interested in him and his location
2. Increased awareness of his location
3. New attention from authorities (that may confiscate and find reason to hold for years until it is sorted out)


So increased awareness and widespread incentive, easy details of location, endangerment to OG physically, endangerment of board funds.

This is clearly increasing the probability of several negative implications of OGnasty and the entire board.

If vod does not get a red tag for this then NO PERSON DOXXING OTHERS should get a red tag. There is NO proof OG scammed or did anything wrong at all.

Vod gives red tags if you tell him he needs to present evidence before making accusations against OG and delete his 3rd "SAME" accusation ? but he does not deserve it for potentially being responsible for OG  being hurt or robbed or the BOARDS money being stolen.

What a joke of a system we have here with the biggest joke being the scammers and liars on DT getting to give out red trust to other honest members FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY LIKE lol.

This clearly demonstrates the inner gang are untouchable now. This board is screwed.

This is the problem with granting DT members "special treatment" with scamming, extorting, doxxing, etc etc. Now everyone has a right to say they can NOT have a red tag for doing the same thing or the entire system is unfair and corrupt, and they would be correct. Allowing a 2 tier system is pure corruption and sure failure of this system.

You need clear, fair rules that ALL members have to stick to or they ALL get the same punishment. Anything else will tear the board apart.

What is wrong with VOD and Hhampuz is clear. They think double standards are fine, so are corrupt if not scammers themselves. Perhaps not worth red trust under the red trust for Scammers ONLY rule but should be blacklisted from DT and given a warning for that. Removed from merit source for sure. This is worse than political meriting (which everyone does anyway).

TG - these are not valued members (maybe to each other) these are a bunch on non achieving double standards scum and some are observable liars and scammers among other things. Don't be sorry, be glad you took a stand. It is there in history now.

Your reasons for red trust are far more admirable and noble than theirs in many cases. Watch your back though now.

Suchmoon is their front man it is not as reckless as the inner gang with trust abuse but will be found supporting lauda, vod , tman, owl, any of those just the same as Huge Black Woman aka the pharmacist, fox pup. All cycling merits to each other all including each other on DT all excluding similar members. There is no decentralization here, it is collusion and gang mentality with no single point of accountability.

I'm not a merit source :).

I never said or implied that. All I said - it's an opinion. Makes zero difference to me if it's negative, positive, wordy, +1, don't care. Opinions expressed on this forum should not be punished with red trust.


You also said this (about merit):


Let's untangle merit from this is all I'm asking. It's not an encouragement, it doesn't send SWAT to Og's house, let it go.

This thread should be locked. The topic was regarding Vod and Hhampuz and surprisingly it has turned into the same circlejerk every topic becomes. Move all the whining to an existing Reputations thread.


Don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to accuse other people of making baseless claims?

I am in complete agreement on that front. Merit sending should not warrant red trust, especially when it is used in a "legitimate" way, whether you agree with the post or otherwise. My complaint has never been about the people sending merit (although I did feel your comparison was disingenuous). My complaint is directly at the DOX, and all of my criticisms thus far have been aimed at that.

I think giving negative trust feedback to those that merited the Dox would be a mistake. I don't think that giving Vod negative trust would be abusive or out of bounds.

You originally said it was "just merit to a post you didn't like", but the "post you didn't like" isn't just an opinion you disagree with, it is an action that increases the threat-level in the everyday life of whoever lives at the address that was released. To be clear though, you're saying what I blew out of proportion was stating that there is potential risk associated with releasing the address of an individual and claiming there is millions of dollars in their possession?


Not the concern. The concern is a desperate 20-something that has nothing to live for and just needs a little guidance to do something evil.

When someone realizes there has been wrong done, but it was over a few hours ago so straw-man it and who cares:



Sounds like encouragement here :

No. I have never made a baseless claim. Further the baseless claims I am referring to was giving credibility to the threat of harm that would be done if an extortion payment was not paid.

Anyone still has that thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5140813.0), but without OgNasty's private information? (it's not in the Trashcan so I can't see it myself).

edit: got it as requested.

I am guessing theymos either deleted it or put it in a trashcan like sub only accessible to admins.

I saw it after OgNs information was deleted, but I believe all it said was OgN didn’t pay his taxes. When I saw it the thread was in investigations and I cannot find it on google nor the way back machine.

That's not a word you should be allowed to use. You doxed owlcatz outside of Investigations. You attempted to dox me for disagreeing with you in P&S. You're are scumbag and if the roles were flipped you'd be praising OgNasty for courageously doxing Vod.

It must have said more, no? Why else create one in the first place. I'm asking because I have a hard time passing judgement (and updating my Trust list because I'm DT1) seeing how almost everyone's acting immaturely. That's my impression at least, without seeing the full picture.

It had OgNasty's name and address. It also had a link to a youtube video published by NastyMining showing off the solar panels on his house. (I don't think OgNasty would mind the video, otherwise I'm sure NastyMining would have taken it down long ago.)

I didn't post the info, the doxer did. My post clearly states that the doxer failed to show the link between the me and the person being doxed. BTW this was before the Investigations board had been established and there was fuck all I could do about personal info being plastered all over the forum. Now however you're breaking the rules by reposting it publicly. Lets see if you're immune to the banhammer. I'd bet a benjamin that you are, sadly. So let's get back to condemning Vod y'all, nothing to see here ::), only OgNasty's dox is bad, everyone else is fair game.


Ok I'll do that. Just let me know who that is.

I wonder why the forum and the treasurers don't use Multi Sig wallets to secure the millions of USD being held in a custodial fashion.  If there wasn't a single point of failure the treasurer wouldn't be in so much danger from a doxxing.

Everyone is worried about OGNasty's safety and no one is talking about the best way and easiest way to make him and forum funds safe again!!!

The forum apparently already voted that he is safer than multi-sig... ::)   

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2043715.0

Thank you for the green light theymos.  Now we get to see who stands up for this type of behavior and should be nowhere near DT.  Looking at you suchmoon.  Even Lauda removed the counter to the legitimate rating left by teeGUMES, who honestly deserves a standing applause for being the person to step up and do what was right, even though it immediately cost him his DT inclusion because the system is severely flawed currently.  I think it's time to clean house.  Starting with the people who merited the post, excluded teeGUMES, and left trust ratings to bury his rating of Vod.  These people are so dead set on trying to maintain power over the trust network, they're not even able to hide their bias anymore.  Makes you wonder if any of their circle could do anything to get a negative DT rating or removed from DT1.  Let's find out where the line is.

Negative trust left for Vod.  Funny how I was the one who didn't leave negative trust and gave him multiple chances to apologize for his lies, but he insisted on being outed as a liar and a pathetic wuss who lies to get others to do his dirty work.  Now I had no choice.  I tried Voddy boy.  Now everyone knows you're a liar with the fragile ego of a child.  Sad, because there are users doing the work on your BPIP site who deserved better.

My ratings didn't counter anything as I had previous ratings on both users, they were placeholder counters which are no longer needed. I actually wanted to counter on all meriters, but somehow missed it? Well, doesn't matter now either way.

Looking at me or ever doxing me isn't gonna bend me to your will.

LOL says suchmoon who gave tons of negative ratings because of other peoples opinions.

Suchmoon maybe OG is not going to bend you over but the lawsuite will.
I give you here officaly the last 8 days for removing your false negative tags from my account or proof to the whole forum i'm a scammer or tried to scam someone.

I have to agree with people that i also can't understand Theymos giving abusers like you and the gang so much power which has been abused and more important refuse to take their negative tag away even THEYMOS clearly stated that tagging for something like that is a clear abuse of the trust feedback.

You are under Theymos defenition a clear trust abuser.

Since theymos is not cleaning ship i will hold you responsible for your actions to discredit me, for calling to give me more negative trust and for activly trying to destroy any business i had on this forum in the intense that you even destroyed other peoples accounts claiming they are my alts.

You will be next and if Vod wants to be included i would ask him to reply to my message on his facebook profil


@Vod i see that you deleted all content from your profil and added a support of the stroke association.Profil says retired now.
Did you had a stroke ?

Noone can say you're a scammer I do not believe. That's the flaw in the TRUST system IMO. That is also the reason we need a TRUST system for traders and such, and a REPUTATION system for trolls such as yourself.

The 2 definitely need to be separated. I believe if this were to be implemented then things would be alot better around here. Of course, then we would have you and others bitching you have been labeled a troll and you don't believe you are, but at least then we could post proof(almost all your posts) and be justified in our troll tag.

I am going to remove my tag on you solely for the reason that you are correct, you're not a scammer but I think the reason others have tagged you is due to the fact they have no other option to handle a person such as you. I wouldn't expect anyone else to follow suit with me but I hope a REPUTATION system could be considered and implemented.

The only troll on this forum are people abusing the trust system finding any BS to add a negative tagg to somebody who doesn't fit their agenda.
People defending themself demanding proof for being called a scammer are being called trolls at the same time i didn't saw you as DT member stepping in on other members who attacked my family,my business used very vulgar words and systematicly implemented lies on my person.
Where were you there?    Cause people who stepped in got instantly also put into the defamed league.

We used to have this feature where if enough people ('established users', I don't remember the exact definition) clicked to 'Ignore' a given user's post, his Ignore button started changing colours, from light yellow to dark orange/brown if I remember correctly. This feature, same as some user/forum statistics, was disabled because it was taking too many resources IIRC.

You received red trust not because of your opinion but because of your actions. There is a difference.


Case in point. Threatening me with lawsuits is not going to remove your red trust but rather cement my belief that you're a danger to the community.

Yes i'm a danger to the forum holding you responsible for your actions.Nice manipulation from you as always.
8 days.
Post archived as evidence for court that you saw and understood my message.
Am waiting for proof within 8 days that i scammed or the tag removed else i will send out the lawsuite.

@Forum @Theymos

I'm giving suchmoon a fair chance 14 days in total to proof that i'm a scammer or tried to scam someone or to remove the false negative tag to close that dispute in peace.
Should she not deliver any of these two it's not me being hold responsible for her abusive behavior which would end in a lawsuite.

Forum believes you will do nothing, like you did with me.  :)

I sent you a message on facebook.Please confirm Vod.
How often do you want me to ask for it if you want a case opened against you ?

Why are you hiding like last time ?

So if Suchmoon doesn't give you her geocities, you won't sue her either?

:/

I got suchmoons details with legal proof.

But i don't understand why you are asking ?You are such a big mouth and still let me beg to confirm your facebook profil like last time.
It would take 5 sec.Where is the problem for you to confirm your profil when you claim you are willing to give me your full details ?

Vod you are begging me to open that lawsuite so you don't have 5 sec to confirm your facebook profil ?

Whats up ?

Just have your lawyer contact me, liar.   ::)

Vod is terrified. Deleting evidence and backtracking. A true weasel.

Whats your issue in confirming your facebook profil ?
Big mouth hiding ?Do you have no balls as you always claim?

I merited many posts where someone has used investigatory skills

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5136092.msg50802606#msg50802606
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5081556.msg48682521#msg48682521

and I also received merit for
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4508262.msg40659408#msg40659408

There was a video and there was a house from that video, and I automatically pressed merit button without thinking too much and without thinking some people may see it the way they see it, I didn't use it for whatever some of you people are speculating I did.

I have never said I support this doxing, I have never said I support reporting him to government agency and I have never took anything outside this forum, and on side note IIRC I have never received answer to this doxing:



If you want to remove me from merit source I am fine with that.
If someone wants to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5108783.msg49698602#msg49698602 I am fine with that.
If someone wants to place negative on my wall - I am fine with that
If someone wants to place neutral comment - I am also fine with that

Make sure it is correct one. @teeGUMES:

Why is your "discussion" with Vod in my trust wall?

Ok, no problem, we shall talk. Just give me a second to prepare myself for conversation...

https://i.imgur.com/lI99j37.jpg

"Ok, you got my full attention, talk!"

Seems like a bitch move by Vod.  Settle your Internet arguments without whining to the US government and doxxing where people live and store their valuables. 
 

Look he's doing that cute thing that Lauda does by posting a picture or gif to try to make fun of you. Pretty cute marlie.


It's not? It links to this thread because the public doxx post that you decided it was proper to merit was deleted.. I dinged all four merit posts and because it was the wrong tool to use(there is no longer a post which equals no more merit for doxx) I offered what is on your trust wall as an explanation. You may not have been online when it happened so I didn't want you blindsided.

Further up in your post I see that you have another doxx problem.. it's unfortunate that DT1 hasn't acted on that back then. Not sure what these guys have been doing for years. I'd take a look at it but it appears DT1 is okay with doxxing (my negative on Vod has been countered left and right). Don't let them catch you selling an account though. Bad bad news!

Try reading the thread for any other answers you need, I've explained my position many times quite clearly.

So much for your new-found stance against doxing, lasted less than a day ;)

BTW OgNasty was in DT1 for years, including at the time of Hhampuz dox, and most current members were not. You may have messed up that finger-pointing.

Selective enforcement of rules and morals is lovely, just my opinion  :-X

I've been discouraged by my peers for the time being, hard to get shit on by people I thought were held to a higher standard. It'll be okay I'll hopefully come around by the time one of you send merit for doxxing :)


Any new DT1 member has to go back and fix the failures that people who have been on DT1 for years failed to take a stance on? How far back should I go? All the way to the forum beginning?

Please tell me more about my morals? I've strongly upheld them. You however flip flop back and forth. Enjoy your time on theymos' list of notes.

All of you guys' hate for OgNasty just continues to shine. You can't even hide it anymore. Visibly shaking.

Yessir! I hold to myself now sir, sorry for speaking my opinion sir.

How long until another of these pops up?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5129675.msg50521921#msg50521921 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5129675.msg50521921#msg50521921)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5137324.msg50820769#msg50820769 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5137324.msg50820769#msg50820769)
Very insecure individual.
Anyways I won't let this hit Vod vs OgNasty levels, very easy to press Ignore here.

Yessir, sorry for trying to better myself and staying in tune with community, sir. I will get back in lane now sir!

Why do you think I am joking? I am very serious, I got myself a brand new pair of horse blinkers.

Scare quotes?

I believe you can find that information in my previous post.

Very interesting response to hhampuz's dox.
I am sorry to break your speculation, but someone did acted back then on this. Strange, nothing happened.

It appears that DT1 is not ok with tagging Vod after he removed dox, I am not sure from where all these speculations are coming from. Why are you making things up?

You are not making much sense.

As I said, I (me) see everything clearly. Someone even quoted part of theymos's post to look like he said only something while he said many things, they forget to quote this part:


Here you go:

I see connection here

It'd be best to forgive - green light  ;D

How about just page 1 of this thread:


Fast forward to page 4 where Quicksy attempts to dox me, repeatedly and maliciously, and you just gloss right over it, choosing instead to attack marlboroza. I guess I've done something criminal then, like speaking out against the almighty most-trusted never-wrong OgNasty, because you wouldn't be such a blatant hypocrite, would you?

Don't attempt to grow a spine, you won't like it.

On the topic of dox'ing via trust ratings, Vod has left trust ratings containing what purports to be personal information of the person receiving the rating for the following people:
*myself
* pmlv5555 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=926309)
* Gerald8 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=925141)

All of the ratings were sent after the rules on doxing (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1576015.0) were put in place. The two other users appear to have gotten nuked/banned, and I wonder if their actions that lead to their ban was in part caused by frustration of having this information freely available in their trust profile.

You really should stop being dishonest. The post you are referring to quite literally cited information you posted yourself.

If it walks like a duck...

You really should stop looking for excuses to dox me but that's not really possible, is it?

If you scroll a few posts up from the post you referenced there is an explanation why Google+ means jack shit as far as someone's identity. Explaining that is in no way a permission to keep doxing me. There is a reason why that information is in Investigations, asshole.

"I just don't understand why you won't want to self-dox and subject yourself to a lawsuit"

That is, assuming your words aren't blanket statements... which they often appear to be.

---

In regards to doxxing, it shouldn't happen if you have the entire picture. When you have enough details to create a case outside of the forum for legal authorities to step in, public doxxing serves as a means to spread their information rather than investigate the user (case-by-case in certain scenarios).

If going after someone you presume is scamming or violating the law and you do not have enough details for their local jurisdiction to act upon, then creating an investigation thread for the purposes of uncovering their details to pursue legal action is more justified.

---

Let's lock this and stop with the irreverent bickering, aye?

LOL - love it!  :)

By now, the purpose of the topic likely reached. Two cases of Vod and Hhampuz solved, and theymos once again stepped in and stated his opinion.
What do you think if I lock the topic? (Personally, I believe it is time to lock it). I will listen to your opinion till the end of today, and might lock the topic tomorrow, even next hours if most of you support to lock it.

Don't  know but whistle blower losing the DT status cannot be stated as a desired outcome.

But better to lock it because user can sort out their differences in PM and after Theymos reply we do not need to brainstorm more.

Lock it or don't - depending if you want to read more insults or not.

OG still has his "Vod is a liar" thread, and he'll keep it going, so have another thread like this with no purpose is up to you.

I'm too busy to reply often for the next few days...

Hhampuz : Super helpful and to trust member.


Vod : Don't know Vod as many as you, but see a lot of him, have had a few PM's and seem to be a very, extreem careful member for this forum and a member I would trust for a deal any day, as I know ifI would have a problem or something and PM him, he will help where he can!

IMO two members how more members should act or be like.


Now close the thread?     -------------------------->@forum and @Theymos, review my Msource application please thx, a fair chance is all i'm asking ::)

Theymos, I hope you realize you are opening yourself personally as well as the forum up to huge legal liability by not taking any action regarding this. If something were to happen to OGNasty, him or his family would have a very solid case, especially since Vod has exhibited this behavior multiple times in the past. Legally speaking you would have no excuses.

How?

Theymos saw the post and then magically the Dox were removed - pretty sure he cleared his liability there buddy.

As I explained this is not the first time he has done stuff like this. By excusing this behavior and giving him a continuing platform to continue to engage in this behavior he is setting a clear precedent of complicity with this behavior. If this was the first time it could be excused with a claim of ignorance, but now he no longer has any plausible deniability and if something does happen Theymos and the forum could be held civilly liable for failing to prevent this behavior on his platform when he knew very clearly this was occurring and allowed it to continue regardless of deletions.

How? It's pubilcy known that OG holds 500 btc and OG himself has posted his address on the internet.

Nobody shows up to bill gates house to rob him. What about the fact that banks probably have a lot of money in them I don't see people running and jumping to rob them.

How can theymos be held liable for information posted on a semi public forum? That is like saying Christopher Poole is responsiblily for everything posted on 4chan pre 2015

I am just going to answer this pretending you have enough understanding of the law to comprehend it, though I have my doubts.

There are protections for commons, but as soon as you curate information, in the case by creating the precedent DOXing is not allowed, you inherently automatically create liability by picking and choosing who is allowed to continue to do so again in the future. You are either a commons or a publisher, and in this circumstance Theymos is firmly occupying the role of the publisher by enforcing the regulations on doxing on some but not all people. As a publisher he is liable for information he chooses to publish. This chain of logic is self evident. If doxing is not allowed, and this instance is excused, he is complicit in publishing the information in violation with the published and accepted terms of service of this forum (regardless of there not technically being one you click agree to or not).

are you able to pinpoint the exact moment in your life that turned you into such a prized cunt? Really? do you think you are helping in anyway shape or form here?

You must be a scared human througing always so foul-mouthed words arround.Could be also the result of being mentally defeated

Ironic, how I behest others to disengage. Last one, since this is something new.

---

---

Big mouth, large oral orifice

No more HEIL Theymos?   You get drunk, post bullshit, then delete it, multiple times I have seen.  How is your head now?  ;)

I have the courage to publicly stand behind my words - you don't. 

I agree with some things you say.  If you could control your jealousy, we could talk about it.  :(

Really? From my perspective it looks like you’re deleting your social media and trying to hide. Nothing remotely courageous about your behavior. I’ve even seen your behavior described by LC as being a bitch, which I feel is far more accurate.

Please send your legal contact info to vod@martinlawrence.ca

I think you are projecting just a tad there Heinrich. I hardly ever drink, and if I do I am not home posting. None of my posts here in this thread are edited.

You know you went to far and this is just a really pathetic attempt to divert attention from your own dangerous behavior which is antithetical to the entire reason for this community's existence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIbFtZMVwxk
How To Argue (But Not Fight) With A Narcissist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqV_QIvDeqA
The Simplest Way To Spot Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Completely on topic.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5142064.msg51009261#msg51009261
It looks like you did edit the mostly drunk stuff though....  

Drunk/High whatever.  Head didn't hurt the next morn?  lol

Well it looks like some ongoing fight against each other for some of Dt members which only do damage to the community here at least the ones who are being nominated here are good ones in my point of view, both OgNasty, Vod and Hhampuz as far as I see are good contributors to the forum. By fighting against each other attention is removed from catching scammers.

Everyone who left Vod appropriate red-trust were removed from DT as a result.  I'm sure that's not a problem, right?  

I've been following this topic for the past days, but didn't post here yet.

Vod currently has red trust from bill gator (DT1). I'd like to point out that Vod didn't exclude teeGUMES.

If anyone's interested in creating a timeline, I have hourly copies of the Default trust breakdown (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;dtview) since April 12.

DT isn't perfect. But I do believe standing up for what you believe in, as teeGUMES did, shows character.

I never got to see Vod's post (and I don't scrape the Investigations board), but I often use Merit as "worth reading". In some cases (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5141539.0) that can be because it says a lot about the user who posted it (but again: I didn't get to read the post so can't judge if that was the case here).
(My) Merit isn't a "I agree" and also not an endorsement for a post. I hope more people treat Merit this way.

The action of removing Vod from my trust list, had an immediate (might even be fun to see how long such a reaction took - with your hourly breakdown) reaction of my DT "inclusion score" going from 9, down to 4.
Now that I've left Vod a negative feedback we are down to 3, and counting.

I don't much care to be in DT1, but this doesn't speak well to the current status of the trust system, in my opinion.

Certainly seems like a strange trajectory to take place from a simple statement "DOXing is bad and can lead to harm", and appropriately leaving negative feedback to the single individual responsible for it.

See http://loyce.club/other/tmp (times are Amsterdam time), I won't leave this online long as it's raw data. When I have some time, I'll make a change log per user.

You lied in your feedback.  :/

OG has been posting for years he has 500 btc, and he has been as ass for years.  He recently admitted he's been following my social media, while pretending to be my friend.

The "I don't want to be in DT" is nothing more than the well known parable:

Looks like that happened today and his inclusion score has already dropped significantly.  Vod didn't exclude teeGUMES because he is already excluded so that would be redundant at this time.  Let him get a few more inclusions and watch what Vod does.




Certainly this is horrible behavior. :D  At least I didn't post your facebook profile here along with your address and made up claims backed by no evidence to try and get innocent people arrested for perjury...  You're such a dimwit Vod.  Please don't ever stop digging your hole.

significantly = 1   ;)

Thanks for deleting your drunk post from last night.  I forgive.

Vod didn't exclude teeGUMES because teeGUMES admitted he made a mistake.   Vod forgives.  :)

I don't see how your story is relevant here. Does an analogy count as a story?
I'm already in DT, not disparaging it from the outside.

Sent you a PM about the "lie", I'd love clarification on what you're talking about and I would happily correct any inaccuracies.

No worries.   Do what you want.  :)

https://i.gyazo.com/5eed9bf9541a62c502771c4cf20745ef.png

I'm just leaving this here; we've gone completely childish now, and this is probably where I take my leave from Reputation. This board is a mess.
Vod claims I am lying, but will not tell me about what.

How can this situation progress in any productive manner when this is how it is being approached?

I could tell you, but I think you've made up your mind.  :)

I'll join in on this: I've blocked you too. I despise virtue signalling more than inaction.

You do love a good bandwagon! ;)

Let's re-cap:

Vod DOXes OG.
I proclaim that "DOXing is bad, can lead to harm and is magnified if you claim there is money at the address."
Remove Vod from Trust-list for Doxing
Trust-Inclusions go from 9 to 5.
Leave Vod Negative feedback for their actions.
Trust-Inclusions go from 5 to 3. (maybe from 4 to 3, hard to tell without a timeline)
Vod Claims my feedback is a lie.
Ask Vod what the lie is.
Blocked by Vod.
Blocked by Lauda
? ? ? ?

Pointless re-cap; those events aren't consequences of each other. I'm just late to the party, would have blocked sooner. Virtue signal on Facebook all you want, I don't want to see it here.

The point of you exclaiming you're blocking my PM's is what exactly?

You're not worth listening to, wind changes its direction all the time.

For me, it was to avoid the taunting.   Then like a child, you posted the taunts publicly.  

You're bought.  

Somehow I'm worth responding to, and making it publicly known that you will no longer accept my PMs.
Despite the fact that none of it involves you.


At least your response is relevant to the conversation.
You claimed I lied. I politely asked you about what.
Which part of that is taunting?




Another assertion that I'm assuming you're unwilling to explain or justify.

And you continue, so on ignore you go.   

Do whatever you want, just don't piss on me and call it rain.  :)

You're hurling ad-hominem attacks, making baseless assertions that you're unwilling to explain, back-up or justify, but somehow I am the one taunting.
These re-caps keep looking more ridiculous.

Vod says I Lied
Ask what
Vod says TAUNTING!
Ask how I taunted
Vod says TAUNTING!

If we're going to be against virtue-signaling can we also be against the victimhood-mentality being expressed here?


The situation is actively developing, and all I can do is draw conclusions based on what I have in front of me. I wouldn't have reached out to you, and offered to change my feedback if I was already set-in-stone about how I feel here.

Me thinks he wants to virtue signal  :D

This thread is a very good example of what is wrong with the trust system.

Agreed.  Why do we allow people with almost 5 digit negative trust on here ?

Bill you just wind people up, you did it with me when I had you excluded initially, you are like some clingy bird you can’t get rid off. Dude just chill, if you didn’t really care about DT you wouldn’t be banging on like when my Mrs was pregnant and I had to go to the fucking shop in the middle of the night to get some specific ice cream. Like seriously dude, you got issues.

Yes vod was a cunt, yes vod realises and removed DOX. Now unheard of levels of cuntness is going on between OG and VOD. But dude what does your tag achieve? And now this fucking stalking is making it worse

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5141263.0

---

This thread has gone on far too long. It's still holding onto life in a fetid septic chamber echoing a cacophony of distorted rebounding rhetoric.

btcsmlcmnr would you kindly lock this?

Are you serious?  Vod absolutely deserves the negative trust feedback for his behavior.  That isn't up for dispute.  Your post does a nice job of showing some merit source abuse though.  Thanks for the addition to the thread.

His feedback is nothing more than illegitimate negative trust. 500 Risked BTC when no trade happened? 

I didn't claim there was a trade that occurred. I claimed that 500 BTC were at risk, which they are; especially if the information supplied within the DOX was accurate. Have you been reading along?
Besides, theymos himself has said something like "if you want to make a trust-rating more effective, increase the BTC risked"; this is not what I am doing here, but that does not make the feedback illegitimate in anyway.. It never has.


Don't tell me you think offering to change my feedback once the inaccuracies are pointed out is "taunting", too?


I just love you guys so much <3


I care about our forum, our community, Bitcoin, the trust-system (or whatever replaces/supersedes it), I care about the interactions around here making sense and I care about principals that I assumed we all operated by. I do not give a shit to be on DT, but now that I've stuck my nose in a Reputation thread... Can not unsee... You folks are bonkers.


As far as I know, my tag is the only DT1 tag that stands on Vod. Don't you think that DT1 should do something when a user does something like this? We are not God, so sometimes it takes more than repentance to atone for our sins. I don't know what you mean about stalking; I read along, asked some questions, slept on it, drew conclusions and then left an appropriate feedback for the situation.

Then there was discussions about trust-list changes, which I had relevant anecdotes to share, then I was accused of lying so I tried to figure out what I was being accused of lying about with a single, polite PM.

OG absolutely deserves to lose his house over his scam.  That isn't up for dispute.

Please do not - these two are big enough and ugly enough to sort there own battle online, surely its best if everyone else stops posting (me included) and we let them get to it in one place, itll keep happening in every other fucking thread if not

I can tell by your ridiculous "re-cap" that you haven't been following along at all.

I can also tell you don't know how to use the trust system.

Thanks for this.  Liars have no place on DT1.

As you literally cherry-pick a post from theymos, that directly contradicts what you're suggesting for the trust-system.

This is literally from the same post you just quoted :


Oh, and if you'd be a darling - providing your own re-cap would be some much needed comedic relief, so long as you don't butcher the delivery like Lauda did earlier about merit being based on effort.


We're all still waiting to hear what the lie is. I'm still standing by to correct myself if this is proven to be the case.

I agree with TMAN. Leave it to them to solve, I'm open to adjusting and changing my feedback/actions/conclusions - as always.

Because Vod fucked up and sorted it straight away, Vod does some decent shit here tagging people and OG has convinced many people he does decent things here as well.



So leave them to it, go change the tampon and powder your nose till you get your emotions in check and let the two titans fight it out - its none of our business getting in the middle and when it all settles down then tag away with a proper reference and not by saying that vod skammed anyone for 500BTC you penis.

Is the only problem that of the 500 BTC risked amount?

Because AFAIK few people have problems with substantiating ratings based on outsider insight (i.e. not being part of the transaction).

Your hate, has been your undoing.  Even I feel bad about telling you to keep digging your hole at this point.  I don't think your rep will ever recover from this.  That is why I gave you multiple chances to apologize for your lies and we could move beyond this.  I didn't even leave you a negative trust rating at the time.  That's looking like it was a pretty good offer at this point now doesn't it?  Maybe I was being reasonable and trying to protect you when I offered that as a solution?  Nice to see you didn't let that stop you from shooting yourself in the foot and then blaming me.  Oh well.  You can't say I didn't try to save your reputation, because I very clearly did (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5122617.msg50760290#msg50760290), twice (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5122617.msg50773288#msg50773288).

Your scam has been your undoing.  :)

I couldn't really care about your trust squabbles, but:


I don't think this applies anymore. I could be wrong, but I expect that it was changed once theymos realized that it was a bit of a silly idea.

Didn't realize I'd been undone, or was this a clever reference to my naked Tuesdays? :D

I'm sorry.  I couldn't resist.

And now I am intimidating others by simply ignoring them.

Liars do not belong on DT1.  Remove Bill Gator!

So that there is no possible way for my feedback to be misconstrued; I have removed the 500 BTC risked. I can tell that it will create a divide, and distract from the actual issue meant to be tackled. Somehow, I doubt that is going to change anything.


No, you are intimidating others by endangering lives through giving out their address, attaching promises of millions to it and attaching lawsuits to your personal problems. Ignoring me would've been a preferable alternative to you crying about taunting, abusing the trust system and lying about ignoring me.

Didn't realize my rep had been damaged -  just my brain at the thought of naked Tuesdays!   :D

I'm sorry.  I couldn't resist.

Here you "forgot" to include the rest of the quote that completes the idea:

---

This clearly means the negative left to bill gator is no longer deserved (if it ever was).

---

Again this is absurdly getting out of control. Would you all learn how to use the trust system and leave negative trust only if you think the user has scammed or will steal as soon as they get a chance?
Leave negative trust only if you think this label is deserved:
https://i.imgur.com/B6Jcz74.jpg

But... I removed the DOX....    ::)


Too late I think.

In my personal opinion, potentially losing the forum treasury holdings due to a momentary lapse of judgement by a single individual would be more significantly damaging to the forum, Bitcoin, our community than any scam I have seen take place around here. I am all for forgiveness, and I most likely will remove my tag at a later date, but for now this needs to have consequences within the trust-system; if I am going to walk away from this situation with negative trust, that should say something.


Which has saved you from having the same trust-rating as Quickseller, self-preservation isn't noble.

Since you have now endangered Vod due to the people who are going to hunt him down thinking he was a scammer who took or was trying to take 500BTC, should I be leaving you feedback now?  ::)

Makes sense.   I deleted the dox, but he left feedback anyway.  

I made a mistake, but Bill outright lied.  

Based on OG's feedback, it is appropriate to leave negative trust for someone who endangered a life, no matter mistake or lie.

And that's why I think you don't deserve the negative trust either. But retaliation shouldn't be the only reason why you leave that trust.

I'm more concerned about non-deserved negative trust. The whole discussion has been absurd for a long time but I just ignore it.

That's not what negative trust means. It doesn't mean "a momentary lapse of judgement by this user could have significantly damaged the forum". It means "this user is very untrustworthy. He has scammed and/or I think he will scam as soon as he gets a chance.".

That is a ridiculous assertion and is based on the fact Vod is your employer.

I will bet 1 person here 0.000001 btc that if OG gets audited he will get a refund

To say that og doesn't pay his taxes is a joke. Isn't his wife/girlfriend an accountant or a lawyer or something like that

Open a lightning channel :P

Who’s gonna escrow?

I can :)

That's a lot of money when BTC will hit 1B :-P 🚀

Thanks for the clarification /sarcasm :), however, my employer is who I work for practically every day of my life to feed my family and have a place to live, and that's not Vod. Your "facts" seem a bit flawed. What else is new??

edit:

Paying me for work on a regular basis ???   I'm not sure where the hell you would ever get this idea but I assume it's coming from the same source that told you Lauda has a pill addicition?  

Just saying this now.  I have given killyou72 no information privately regarding my taxes or any reviews/audits that may or may not have taken place previously.

He is paying you for work on a regular basis. The conflict exists regardless of if i am referring to your day job or a side gig that gives you extra pocket cash.

How much do I pay him and how regularity do I pay him?

Are you and OG now harassing everyone who has supported my work?

May I step in for a second, lets not pick sides.


OGnasty announced on internet that he is forum treasurer, for example in this forum https://forum.bitcoin.com/ama-ask-me-anything/i-m-ognasty-treasurer-at-bitcointalk-org-ask-me-anything-t2221.html and that information is verifiable HERE.

It was in 2015. but you will probably find newer posts where he is braging around with his finances, anyway, from thread where he announced that he holds money for bitcointalk he also brags about something else:


Then someone who brags about finances publishes video of his house with solar panels placed in environment together with houses surrounding it, and for example this post:

For those who need information, all these "double meanings/talking in riddles/talking like politician/taking gifts and donations/barking around" means shit.

As outsider, I see two possibilities. In case this is OG's house in video he is the one who will potentially cause damage to himself, in case this isn't his house - he is the one who will potentially cause damage to some random person (I hope I said this correctly).

Vod doxed OG, that is a fact, but also OG doxxed himself.

OG lost his privacy the moment he published that video, and he published that video on forum, place where people are looking for information, scammers and criminals as well., place available to 6 billion people. This forum isn't isolated society.

Don't blame only one side.

Hypothetically speaking, if I was after anyone's funds I certainly wouldn't wait them to fight with someone and someone to release someone's dox. You will see that only in very bad movies. I see so many users smarter than me and with much much bigger technical knowledge, still, living in a fairy tail, blind to see, or just playing games like politicians.

---

---

Regarding negative feedbacks, whoever didn't send -ve to Vod when he released dox, didn't send -ve when thread was edited, didn't send -ve when thread was thrashed and did tag Vod after someone "gave them green light" or someone told them to do it, they have no place in DT.

To expand on your statement: I never even seen the thread when the DOXX was in there (I think) and I could find his full information with the use of 1 search engine and his username very quickly. The problem was severely exaggerated as this information is literally everywhere.

Idiot gator is all about virtue signalling, he has no integrity, no consistency nor (a capability for) rationality thus I agree with this. He's a relative newcommer in collector channels, and managed to get disliked by a lot of people very quickly due to his unstable behavior. The wind is constantly blowing, but you don't have to flow with it every time it changes direction.

All of that is fine and good. Even if all of that is accepted, what exactly was Vod's intent in making the post? What purpose could that even conceivable serve other than to harass OGNasty and bring scrutiny on him without evidence, and further publicizing OG's personal information? How would posting this information serve the forum in any way? It wouldn't, this is just more of the same abusive behavior from one of the worst serial perpetrators on the forum.

https://i.imgur.com/S9uVqWf.png

Now go and read my post again.

Holy shit, if you follow that post OG made eight years ago, you can still see a paypal link.  He doxed himself eight years ago.

OG has been putting the forum funds in danger for that long, and only now it is being noticed?

What a dangerous ONGOING flaw in judgement.  He can't say he made a mistake on that one... :/

Loving the new nickname, by the way, can we agree that I should be called this by everyone, all the time? Again, your wit never fails us. This is literally the 3rd or 4th time I've seen you use the phrase "virtue signalling" today, it's almost like you've been on a bad political video binge.

You've also used that "wind is blowing" line a few times today, too. When did I change direction? You talk a lot, but you don't say very much.

By "Unstable behavior", Lauda means having a couple people on my trust-list that they disagree with.


I agree. If your trust feedback is based solely on someone telling you to do or giving you the green-light, then your input and addition to DT is counter-productive or irrelevant. Leaving the feedback after I've had some time to consider the facts, shouldn't be condemned. Impulsive behavior is a big part of why we're even dealing with this right now


I can't see anywhere that I've said OG has no culpability in his information being available or "researchable". I agree, he can do more and probably should do more to protect his identity, address and information. Does that make it acceptable and warrant no consequences when another user maliciously compiles this information and posts it conveniently - wrapped in a bow?

The actual nickname that started going around uses a word that my nice mouth isn't willing to say, nor are my hands willing to type it in public. You should write a book about speed well digging.

I did not mean that, stop malliciously misquoting me.

Anything to create a 3 ring circus to distract from your behavior.


What do those trust ratings have to do with the fact that Vod thinks it is ok to do shit like this? There is no justifiable reason for him to have done what he did I don't give a fuck how much you want to argue how much actual risk there was or if the information already was out there, it clearly had malicious intent. I have no allegiance to OGNasty, frankly I don't particularly even like him very much on a personal level, but I have experienced the targeting he has gone thru from many members here, including Vod himself, and I don't see any evidence of his wrongdoing forth coming. I don't think the precedent he is setting is at all acceptable. If you criticize certain people "in the club" around here they ensure you suffer a penalty one way or another shortly after. Vod just tends to have exceptionally pathetic excuses for it.

Shout-out to TMAN!  :D You do need to work on that delivery lately though, that "speed well digging" joke could've been funny.
"Going-around" - Do I get to guess which circle? Don't be such a popular girl, Lauda  :-\


Oh come on, you know I love a good guessing game - that's why you and Vod refuse to explain any of your assertions/claims.

If only.

It was not a joke, you're done. I didn't realize anything until I asked for opinions 're you as I don't play around in these channels.

Lying and reputation attacks are your game.

---

Bah, pajeet gator has invoked bored. I'll be back at a later time.

You know you and the forum would be far better off if you played out your game of thrones fantasies in a MMORPG or something.

Looks like OG deleted that post in that quote.

But let's remember OG gives us the green light to red trust him, even after a dox is removed.   :)

I'm going to work on my site now, and then take a break from the senseless drama.

When I come back, maybe my account will have changed.   Whatever Theymos decides, I hope he lays it out in a clear enough way to avoid OG picking and choosing words to forward his agenda AGAIN.

Added:  I now feel the number of merits I have to hand out are at a reasonable level.  

Peace all.  :)

That is too late due to: 1) The fake Bitcointalk site. 2) Seems to be cached/archived already. :-X

Grasping at straws as you fall down your hole.  Your behavior is inexcusable.  I don't think doubling down on it is going to have the effect you think it will.  I'm actually really sorry that I did this to you.  I tried to sponsor your project, not destroy your reputation, but what's done is done I guess.



Good.  You need the mental health break.  You seem to have forced theymos' hand though with your recent behavior.  I hope it was worth it for you.  This is all going to end up being such a positive thing for me.  I don't understand why you'd think otherwise.  I smell a Nasty pool party in the future. ;D

It would probably turn out that nonnakip was running the shirt store  ::).

Is this what you do? Now I'm starting to understand why so many people let a couple of users get away with murder. Ominous threats, insults, "everyone is against you!" and twisting words for your narrative. You act like law enforcement when they really need to convict somebody, but don't have much to go on besides emotional manipulation.

If we're being honest, pajeet gator might be better than idiot gator, although I know the real nickname is being kept secret - maybe the best is yet to come?

Lying and reputation attacks are my game, but you're probably still unable to justify those claims, right? Or wait, I meant "bored".

Doubly interesting that you didn't have much to say to me, until Vod ignored me and I was seeing myself out of the thread.


Now that's how you draw a line in the sand.  :-*

Until you witness how slimy these users are for yourself, it's difficult to believe all the horrible things myself and others have said about them.  They really are as bad as I've been saying for years now.  The time has come to, "put the smack down on these candy asses."

https://i.imgflip.com/16olgx.jpg

Hey vod was wrong to dox og.

But I am going to say something very simple here.

At least he retracted it and at least he did it in such a way that we know it is vod.


If he doxxed and did it with a newbie account as a shield it would have been far more malicious act.

Still not so,good on vod’s part.

In my case I am doxxed as I type on the website badbuyerslist.org

Worst part is the site let’s the doxxer do it anonymously.


To make it worse. It is over an eBay return that never happened with an eBay account that never existed.

But the real name is mine.

Website won’t take it done and won’t tell me about the doxer.

So I really sympathize with oG but vod’s move does not hold a candle to the guy that doxxed me.

On principle I would not get involved in these fights.  But vod you simply did not do the right thing doxxing him.

And if anyone disagrees just think how I am feeling about the dox,on me for a non-exsistant eBay return on a non exsistant eBay account.

I do not know why someone did it.
I do not know the person.
I did not do it.
The account does not and never existed.
The website showing won’t take it down.

So seeing  a thread about a dox caught my interest.

And if anyone wants to really be helpful inside of fighting each other tell me how to get badbuyerslist.org to remove the dox.

Pms work rather then a posting in a thread that does not belong to me.




I only posted cause doxing is wrong in most cases.






On a lighter  note  to vod  masturbation  promotes  prostate health along with feeling good.

When masturbating and thinking of your own self you are improving your health.

So following your logic when praying and thinking of my own self  I would be improving my spiritual health.

💡

Story time, I am not and never have been an investigator, but before I realised how insignificant OG is in the grand scheme of things myself and OG had a mini feud, I wanted his dox and it took my investigator less than an hour to get his full life story . Tie that in with all the blatant "look at me I am mr treasurer" and "check out who I am holding fundz, best escrow" type posts if anyone wanted to get OG they would of already done it. Lets not make a mountain out of a molehill, OG isnt that bothered about his privacy otherwise he wouldn't be as he is. (try doxing Lauda or QS!)

Quoted for reference. Nobody threatened you idiot, don't play the victim card. Nobody sane likes you, end of.

Couldn't have described it better.
I personly would only add who the fuck is Lauda?Somebody hiding behind full annonymity where people don't even know if its a men or woman and where his/her group protects his/her full annonymity massivly attacking anybody who even asks for the gender.
Also a person who has a lot of accusations and definetly someone who abused the trust feedback massivly also to silent competition.
About the plan to enforce his/her views for financial benefit on all projects on bitcointalk who starts a bounty i won't even mention.(Of course in the name of protecting bitcointalk)



Thats the main issue people give a fuck about the abuse till its them being attacked.Once the group and Lauda create a lot of drama there always comes a rest period so everything cools down.
Thats exectly what they are trying to achieve now by closing the discussion asap.



Vod destroyed so many newbie accounts with false negative and nobody gave a shit.
Suchmoon clearly stated that she doesn't care of evidences when a newbie account gets destroyed but only if its a high ranked member.


Lauda has as always double standards for people who are in his favour to strengthen his position on bitcointalk.
He asked to ban me when i posted only somebodies postal code even it was taken from another bitcointalk post.
Here he defends a real doxxing like its not so harmfull since the data can be found in the internet.

You see the double standard ?I should get banned for posting a postal code which was on another thread on bitcontalk and at the same time its nothing harmfull to post full doxx of somebody because you can research it in the internet.

It amazes me how these pathetic little turds who come off as grade school bullies get so much control around here. Every time one of "the chosen" breaks the rules and is called out it is always the same story. Lock down and vector in on anyone that dares to speak up. The problem is every time you do this it just becomes more and more obvious just how pathetic and abusive you and your toadies are. You morons are about to cross the event horizon and get sucked into a black hole of your own compulsions and stupidity.

I agree, you should.

I actually believed that things solved on that day, but I was wrong when things become worst (it should be better), and we have not had a happy time. I am deeply sorry by starting the thread. So, I locked the topic.
I don't want to dig to the past and figure out who are right, who are wrong; and honestly I don't want to involve with this. If I can say something, I would say that:
- Everyone who joined the fight are all wrong, including me who started the topic at somewhat extent.
- There is no reasonable thing to say that: I did something wrong, but I am not wrong because you did wrong things first. Whoever did wrong thing first does not make sense that the another one involved is innocent, and is right.
- We mostly see wrong things of others and do not see their rest good things. For example: if one person did 100 different things, 5 of them are wrong; we mostly rememeber that 5 bad things, and forget all 95 good things he or she does.
- To end this, each one has to honestly admit his or her faults, then when time passed, things cool down, forgiveness might appear some day.
- If things keep going like this, even 10 or 20 years later or till the day we die, this combat won't be ended, an endless-combat.