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What title says,

unless one is well off himself one should not be having kids, this is my opinion.

What about you?

Same, but as I keep working hard and make myself well off, it drives me away to have kids because I keep thinking how to make my life better.

In my opinion, the minimum salary before you can have a baby is making at least 3x of minimum salary in your country. 1x minimum salary for one person, so the other 2x for a spouse and a baby.

But, with such amount you can only live minimum, you can't enjoy your life because you keep thinking to save money for your kids needs in the future. Either you or your spouse will want the best for your kids, hence you can't save money when you have a family.

Example you have $20,000 and your kids will enter school, you have two options: public school or private school. Public school is free, private school have 3 tiers, the lowest tier you need to spend $5,000 that cover everything, middle tier cost you $15,000 and the highest tier cost you $30,000.

People will choose the middle tier because they can afford rather than thinking to grow their wealth.

Not many people said this, personally I think marriage is a big scam.

I believe in God, and God said, “go forth and multiply,” so for me it’s just right to have kids.

Having children brings a different kind of happiness. It’s not just about yourself anymore, you become more selfless, you work harder, and you learn to be more responsible because you want to provide and prepare a future for them.

And honestly, we all owe it to our parents too. They chose to have kids, and that’s why we’re even here in this world. Same with you, you’re only here because your parents believed in having children.

Multipliers, God will not control your child bearing man, everyone acknowledge God but the basic rational around the world and society have gone beyond that, let me not deceive ourselves, at least you should have moderation and your economic level should determine how many kids you be making as well as your time to properly grow those kids into better adults, aside from the money, your time is very important in your kid's life so you don't go around making several kid's just because your religion book told you to multiplier

I disagree with the premise of the question. The economy should be fairly secondary when considering having children, unless we are talking about extreme cases. I see many people in developed countries who do not have children or postpone having them indefinitely because they have to go on trips to upload photos to Instagram. It is better to be clear about the unity of the couple, the common life project, and if you have limited resources, you will manage. That is how it has always been done. Another thing is that if you have limited resources, do not be foolish and have 10 children; take precautions.

Yeah, not fan of marriage either.


People give too much authority to religious books.


It's not selfless, it's your progeny, you feel attached, so you like to take care of them.


You say this as if it takes much to create kids, everybody can be a parent, but only few parents live upto parental duties — i.e, giving nurture, care and education.

I believe there are many other things God said you should do that you're not doing, and there are the ones he said you shouldn't do that you're doing, but you make sure you must obey this commandment.


If having kids makes one responsible, selfless and hardworking, how come we still have so many deadbeat, lazy and irresponsible parents out there? Why didn't having kids make them better people, and why are the kids suffering a life they didn't ask for?


A very flawed way of looking at life. Kids are not toys; they're not houses that we give as gifts. They are human beings who will be brought into a cruel world, and they will have no choice but to live through it. They will have to come into this world and face the challenges of the world for the rest of their lives, so the least the parents can do is to make sure they make things better. Shower the kid with so much love, make sure he has everything he needs to make life easy for him, and make sure the child is very well equipped in all aspects of life to handle this life on his own. If you can't do that, then don't have a kid, no matter what your God says.

If you are not ready to have kids don't push for it life is short so enjoy the moment if you are happy with your current status. Since if it happens that you are not ready then a child came maybe you became irresponsible parent and can't take care their needs so well.

But if you are open for possibilities and somehow ready for the consequences then its fine to have a child but take a consideration to have few children so that we can assure to give them proper care and education.

This subject is debatable and we provably could read lots of interesting answer from people since lots of us provably have different opinion regarding on this topic.

If you live in a poor country with no perspective, then you shouldn't have kids to my mind because there is a very high chance that they'll have a bad future and low quality of life, they'll grow up in bad conditions and won't see a joy in life. But I'd say again that this highly depends on individual conditions. I mostly mean the case when mother and father have health issues and can't work. If the family is poor but both man and woman have brain and ambitions, then why not? Poverty can be temporary if someone is smart.
In rich countries, I think that people should have kids. Sadly, too many people prefer to have fun in their 20s and 30s instead of having kids to support the nation and increase the birth rate in country. Kids are very important and in EU, countries help parents in many ways to raise kids but sadly, many prefer to go to clubs every day and then blame others when they hit 40s.

Also, in general, the higher the level of education is in the country, the lower the birthrate is and the lower the education level is, the higher the birthrate is. That's because raising a kid is a very serious responsibility.

You do not need to have a lot of money before you start having kid(s), all that matters is that you earn reasonably well to the point that you can take care of yourself and the kid(s) as a parent. Your wife or husband (as the case may be) should also be working to make this comfortable. I said this because some people would use that as an excuse not to have kids until they are older, not knowing they only shifted the responsibility forward.

For those who love children, so long as they are working and earning moderately enough, I think it's a good risk to take.

You're saying that you believe everyone born into this world has a purpose, whether their conception was planned or not. You feel that since we are born, we have a need to survive.

You also mention that some people don't want to have children because they understand the difficult responsibility of raising them. You note that this isn't an issue for the wealthy,
but it's a heavy burden for the poor or ordinary person.

Because it require to be an autopilot businessman in order to fulfill parental duties, most people are employees or successful businessman (they still need to work), hence they can't.

People work to trade time for money, while nurture and care requires time, parents are working from morning to night in weekdays and seek side hustle in weekend, the kids ended up have no father/mother figure.

When we're single, we have to make our parent proud.
When we're in relationship, we have to make our partner proud.
When we're taken, we have to make our partner proud + kids (optional).

In reality, many people not even able to make their parent proud, they jump to make their partner proud.

Because women always say "my life isn't only about working and eating, I need to enjoy my life, if I can go to coffee shop/shopping every week, staycation every month, and overseas vacation every six months etc where my single life is happy, I should be more happier after marriage (means fulfill her single life "desire" and hope to get more)"

I would say if a parent want to have a baby, the maximum amount is ONE.

When you are dependent you will see marriage as a scam, making babies will be scary to you because you can't take care of your responsibilities how do take care of your family when you get married and start giving birth. Women are helping mate so as children too when you get old this people takes care of you when you also train them well they become your eyes in future but before we should go into this let's make sure we have a source of income to enable us to take care of our responsibilities.

Nope.

Wife (dependent) only need to blame her husband (provider), if the husband blame his wife, he's wrong because he can't fulfill her needs.

???

You have a scary mindset, so you're treating a baby as your investment since you demand him/her to take care of you when you're old. Our kids didn't ask us to give a birth, instead it's the decision from the parents.

Being single isn't just working and survive, but we have other task like make our parents proud and prepare for our old ages.

We need to prepare our own retirement home, not forcing our kids for being an unpaid nurse + unpaid personal assistant.

That’s a fair way to look at it because even if there’s a biblical command to go forth and multiply the reality is that raising a family requires more than just faith it also takes resources stability and readiness.
Children need food shelter education healthcare and emotional support and those things come with responsibilities that go far beyond the decision to simply have them. In today’s world the economic side of raising a family can’t be ignored many people struggle with the cost of living and bringing children into that situation without preparation can lead to hardship for both the parents and the children faith can guide values and give strength but it won’t replace the need for practical planning.

It’s not about rejecting the idea of having kids but about making sure that when the time comes parents are truly ready mentally emotionally and financially that way children can grow up in a stable environment rather than one filled with struggles that could have been avoided with careful thought and preparation.

I’m talking about my own belief and experience. The ones you are referring to are just irresponsible people. They’re bad because they don’t really love their family.
Can I ask you something, do you have children already? If the answer is no then I don’t think you can relate.


Sorry but i don't get your response relevant to my comment.

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It’s a teaching that before the law of the land there is the law of God. If you believe in God then you will agree with me that His law should come first above any other law.


I’m talking about being a good parent, those bad parents I really can’t relate to them. Same as what I said above, you can only relate if you’re happy with your married life and you have kids that you love and who love you back.

It’s hard to explain because being a parent our love is unconditional. And love is very important, it’s the only thing that can make the world at peace. When there is love it reflects even on the economy, people follow the law, corruption won’t exist, everyone cares for each other and leaders will think about the good of the people instead of their own interest.

I am male  ;D

And regarding spouse 'needs' to be working in order to make child's life comfortable, such couple are better off not having kid in first place and should continue to live their lives comfortably instead of sacrificing their comfort by creating a kid.


Where did I say that or implied so?


That's a fact.


Ngl, I felt lowkey disgust at, "train them". Such mindset is also seen in my country where children are treated as retirement plans, it's deplorable.

Edit:


I don't believe in God.


It's your kid, so you love him. Isn't that first condition? (I am not sure if it makes sense, feel free to argue).

You’re wrong with that assumption. So what, you’re saying most parents are irresponsible?


Fair enough, if you don’t believe in God then that verse won’t really mean anything to you.
But regardless, humans are created to multiply, otherwise you wouldn’t even be here in this world.

It's not assumption though, I have witnessed parents who shouldn't have had kids, these undeserving parents bring innocent lives here, and ruin it.


Yep, that's correct.


Sounds about right.

It depends on the environment or condition you find yourself, if someone is not progressing or is not successful that shouldn't prevent the person not have kids, at least 1 or 2 is enough to someone who is struggling, and I can't advice anyone not to have a kids when the person is above 35 years especially men, kids are gift from spring beings and if you have them they most be a positive way for you to make a provision, but we're condenm is the process whereby someone having a multiple of kids and you have nothing to take care of them, I'm against that, but having 1 when you know that earth is not favourable to you, I think that should be better

That's not a debate for me, I need kids, I want kids, everyone should but if someone don't feel like then it is not upto me to judge them but I don't care about the economy, it won't be good enough ever, so we have to change our perception of how we see the world, many from the financial point of view don't want kids, that's totally a bad idea, because one day they will support you financially, I am not saying you should depend on them but every kid care for their parents like the parents do, but hear me, most of the time I have seen, parents might not take a good care of their kids like their kids can take their or this goes other way as well.

I am not saying I want kids for some X purpose, it is just I am muslim, I can't touch a girl without marrying her, so I don't care for the economic point of view. I am going to marry someone insha Allah and have some good kids insha Allah. The economy will always be torturing, it will never get better until it is too late.

The way things are so expensive now eh! You can't just bring kids without proper planning. One has to have a business or well to do job to be able to give your kid or kids the life they deserve.

Gone are the days when couples or people who intend to have kids pay attention to what society says, because at the end of the day nobody will come for you or assist you in raising them. Having kids is a beautiful thing, but you just have to plan and put things in place so they don't look malnourished.

For me, I can't have kids if I don't have a good business running or a well paying job. Prices of things are on the hike everyday, it takes a lot to raise kids unlike an adult that can manage whatever but that's not for kids at all.

Just have something going on, job or business so at end of the day you can always provide for their needs that's it. if you want to have it all figured out before you have kids  because of how things are expensive now, you'll realise that the economy isn't getting better either, so just have something doing..

It depends on your sense of responsibility and future perspective on how do you view yourself when you get older. Having kids will give you motivation and become more responsible rather than being alone for the rest of your life.

I have a baby now while I don’t want to have one before because I like being financially independent alone. But right now I have a lot of expenses but still the joy of having someone waiting for you at home is priceless.

Just improve your work and aim for higher pay grade. It’s easy to climb the corporate ladder if you are already motivated by your family.

Really if everyone stopped having kids there would be major problems supporting older generations, but the real problem seems to stem from where kids are being born currently. There most developed countries cannot seem to sustain their population, which might not be a bad thing entirely - in the short term it will be harder to support older generations but in the long term there could be less train. The fact that babies are being born at a very high rate in the poorest countries is an issue, because they seem unable to support themselves currently and adding more people into the mix is only going to make that harder. I think you should carefully plan and be able to sustain having children, but it seems accidental for many in these regions.

Having children is a human instinct as a living creature, and this is not debatable it's not a matter of wealth or poverty. However before planning to have children thorough preparation is essential. This starts with working properly, improving your standard of living, learning as a couple how to be good parents, and managing your finances. Having children requires prioritizing quality over quantity. Balance is fine but many poor people neglect the quality of their lives when they have children. That's why there are sayings like yours that if you're still poor don't have children. Having children is a necessity for every human being to continue growing.

Don't be afraid of having children, because God will always provide us with fears such as poverty, a bad future, or abandonment. But if we are optimistic God will always open the way for us to make things easier, and all of this will spread a positive aura that will ultimately lead to our children's success in the future. The point is, when you want to have children plan carefully.

What I wrote in op was meant for children rather than parents, because children are brought here without their consent, so unless you have best to give don't have them.


Personally, I don't think so.


Man, if you create children hoping god will provide, I honestly feel sad for kids.

Maybe it is just common around me. But it seems like people who are in a financially uncomfortable place are more comfortable with having more kids than those who are in a financially comfortable place. I understand that it sounds somehow, but the reason for it is that they believe that having more kids increases the chances of one of their children turning out to be very wealthy, wealthy enough to take care of them in their old age.

From an economic perspective, in some cultures also, you find men wanting to give birth and have more children so they can be involved in the family business that requires physical effort. Farming, for example—it will be cheaper to have your children on the farm than laborers.

Personally, I say have as many children as you can financially cater for; don't go ahead and give birth to more children than you can take care of—they become a burden to the society.

My question: If you're old, have a limited income, and haven't yet become wealthy, are you still hesitant about having children?
Have you ever heard that having children can increase your income? Because without realizing it, the blessing of having children comes from our own efforts, and can even bring blessings that can make us wealthy. And this all depends on each individual, as it requires effort, prayer, and hard work. And personally, I don't need to be rich; the important thing is to live happily, be blessed, have enough, be able to invest, and most importantly, always have free time with them. That's enough for me.

The global economic meltdown has made it so that anyone who is not well off financially is thinking less of having kids they bring up to the world to suffer.

Marriage and childbearing come with a lot of responsibilities; many people have learn about that. If someone is not financially buoyant or stable, marriage is not for them because what is in marriage is well more than love itself can solve. I love you can foot the family bills

What if you were well off before having children? And maybe you later lost your job or have some health issues? If you want to have children, you can raise them if you have a good plan. Due to global financial issues, parents would have to sacrifice to raise children.

In my country, there are no government-sponsored elderly people's homes. Your children are responsible for taking care of you when you are old. Children are culturally seen as companions and supporters during old age.

Do you believe that every person's sustenance is fulfilled by God? Then why are you refusing to have children on the pretext of being wealthy? Do you not want to follow your old age?

A wise person never delays or refuses to have children on the pretext of financial condition, because he knows that children are a blessing from God and he has made some arrangements for that child. When a child is born into the world, he does not come alone but brings various kinds of joy with him. For example, it creates a mood among all the family, blessings increase, the enthusiasm to earn money by working hard arises, patience and self-sacrifice are made habitual and many other kinds of good sense will prevail among you. Even having more than one child can give you some certainty about old age. But of course the child has to be transformed into a real person.

At some point, YES!

I'll give you a simple reason why. I don't wanna die all alone on my deathbed. I want my children to be there to give me a proper farewell. You know what I mean. :)

And even from an economic perspective, my answer wouldn't change. Sooner or later, we'll need them to take care of us. But of course, the answer to your question can vary depending on culture, religion, country and personal beliefs. At the end of the day, it's up to you what you believe and wanna do.

In fact, a person does not have to worry about his livelihood, rather the Creator sends a person to the world with livelihood.

We are afraid that we are not able to live well on our own. If we do not have children, then how will we support that child or how will we raise that child in a good environment? But I have never seen those who have multiple children starving because of having one child after another. Maybe the amount of money you are earning now is enough to support you and your wife, but when a new member comes to your family, the Creator will provide his livelihood to you, which will result in a promotion in your job or an increase in your business income. Children are a great blessing from the Creator and the happiest feeling for a girl is being a mother, so a girl will never be deprived of this beautiful feeling or a boy will never lose the opportunity to become a father.

From my point of view, I will definitely be in favor of having children.

Thats an honest opinion. When you dont have kids, you have more real estate and flexibility to try different options of making money. But most persons often limit themselves by adding more responsibility to themselves when they could barely feed or take good care of themselves comfortably without breaking the bank. There is this local mentality that many folks have and is "Children brings blessings". I actually think this mentality has landed many into horrible situations of life. It is good to have hope and faith, but its more better to face reality of life and follow things accordingly.

I'm imagining if I were in that situation, if I lost my job and have no health issues, I will stay and looking to seek a job. Life doesn't end just because we lost our job, we might not as successful as before, but we might could be more successful.

If I lost my job and have health issues that cost money/can't work, but my wife willing to support us, I have to say I will depend on her.

If I lost my job and have health issues that cost money/can't work, also my wife left me, my first decision would be seek a rich people to adopt my kids.

Remember, when losing job and have health issues, it doesn't mean I will stop trying...

In as much as this is true some people would not agree with you because of their own views and opinions about it. I believe in not bringing children into existence if you can't provide what they need. It's sad that in countries that are dealing with economic issues and down to the individuals that are struggling financially still go ahead to give birth to more than 2 kids, this will only get you frustrated and depressed

To be fair that means "poor people should not be having any kids", when you say it like that, do you see how harsh it is? I understand that even though the kid will have a bad life because that kid will have poor parents who will not be able to provide wealth to that kid. It still is unfair to tell "poor people should not be having kids", that sentence is telling you already why you are wrong.

The love of a parent is more important, I rather have 2 unemployed dimwits have a kid and love that kid and try their hardest to find any job they can, to raise that kid, and give the world a kid that is full of love and hard work ingrained, than some wealthy guy, who doesn't even know the birthday of their kids, so that is why it is not money that makes you a parent.

A financially insolvent person should take the necessary steps to become financially well-off. This will be a good decision for him. On the other hand, having
children is a very natural instinct of humans.

This has been going on since the creation of man and this is how the human world has survived. There are many poor families in the world who have children and are raising them and when they grow up, that child is successful. And that child is the one who is doing the welfare of his parents, the country and the world.

However, if the parents cannot ensure the basic needs of the child, then it is better not to have more than two children because the child is not only blind from birth, but also the biggest challenge is to raise him properly.

Lets look at this from an economic standpoint. There is so much reasons to have kids. Kids that you can be in their lives, train through school and then they become valuable members of the society that can contribute to the progress and development of the society. Still it doesn't mean that anyone who doesn't want to have kids should be judged or anything. It is live and let live world. No matter how advanced the society becomes robots, pets cannot take the place of kids.  In as much as kids are beneficial to us because they are also an investment to us, we should only have the number of kids that we care for comfortably so that they don't become nuisance in the society.

It's simple, if you don't have the capacity to take care of kids wait till you can especially if you live in a country with a bad economy...many people go through the stress of raising kids that can't take care of properly, this is why we have kids that are unable to go to school in our society...Giving birth is not a competition, do it at your own pace, if you allow others to pressure you into doing this when you are not ready no one would take the responsibility but you

I agree with you. In my country, there are lots of poor parents who can't provide not only a good education and support for their children, they can't provide food for them and in worse cases, they force their children to work and in the worst situations, parents force their children to feed the family from an early age.
In my country, it's also very popular that young people marry and they make a kid despite the fact that they can't feed them, they do it because they hope that their mother and father will help them into this. I do not like this idea too. I personally would love to have kids but I am young and I don't have a very high income, I also don't want to get help from others because I do not want to be dependent on anybody, so I'll do it in a few years when I'll have enough money to take a good care of 4-5 family members alone.

This is your personal opinion, and we're sure to find many different opinions here, depending on each person's way of thinking....
From a purely economic perspective, the poor or even the middle-class should never have children. Only the wealthy should, but this is completely far from reality.

Societies and civilizations cannot be built this way. If everyone thought the same way, humanity would become extinct within a few centuries. Everyone has the right to have children (the poor, the rich, and the middle-class).

Not everyone can be rich, just as not everyone can be engineers, doctors, and scientists. Diversity must exist in every society to ensure the continuity of life.

If such calculation would really work, people would never have babies. Imo, having a baby or not should not be valued from if I could effort  to have a baby or not. Poop people have more than 2 or 3 children and manage to survive. Some millionaires cant handle expenses on one child. You can still have a child and earn one minimum salary. It will be difficult to raise, but your child will love you anyway, if you have one minimum salary or 3x. If you dont earn a lot, it just means that you not buy new or top class accessories, toys, clothes.

Besides, having a child is a huge motivator to earn more. I should be “I have a child I must earn more now” > “I earn a lot, now I can have a child”. Since my child was born, my salary has increased 2x, but my monthly income 2.3x. Being a father and wish to buy everything best for mu child motivated me for action.

I am baffled by some of answers here. To take care of you old age, God will look after children, childrens bring blessings. I see some cultural brainwashing here.


I meant well-off = enough means for a comfortable living — is that too much to ask?

I don't share in same opinion because the advantages of having kids is more than not having; I'm speaking from an African perspective where bloodlines and family lineage is important. What is bad is giving birth to too many kids especially more than you can carter for. The average family in my city has three kids which is considered comfortable to raise and the average earning calculated from the minimum wage can support. 

I feel the same honestly, but at least having something decent to cater for someone else. Financial capability should determine how many kids a person should have, and not the other way round. I see people giving birth to children in an even/odd format to either make it perfect, rather than giving birth to what they can actually take care of.

The world is filled with too many problems already, and most of the problems are caused by certain people who probably didn't enjoy certain things that every decent childhood ought to have enjoyed. Every child deserves a decent childhood after all, but a decent childhood doesn't come cheap either.

I respect both people that aspire to own and not to own kids. Those that want to have kids, it's part of their master plan that they've been dreaming of. While those who don't have plans of having one, it's probably because of their personal economy isn't enough to sustain a family and it's costly to support a baby until they're all grown up. And the responsibility of being a parent doesn't stop even when they get older and become married. It's there to last forever for as long as we can, until we're dead. What my parents told me, as long as I am ready, emotionally, financially and spiritually, I should start my own family with kids.

I agree. Life is hard enough as it is, so what is the point in having children, which demand enormous amounts of time and money? Or even marrying, which will only stress you out emotionally and leave you a total mess in the end?

People are driven by their parents/grandparents selfishly demanding that they marry and have children. And your own body's biology betrays you by making you attracted to the opposite sex and have offspring.

I want to live life for myself, not for the "colony". I am not an ant.

Previously it was a good idea to have lots of children, because they were useful as labor force for the family at countryside. Moreover, culturally speaking, it was a signal of fertility and masculinity for men to have many children. However, nowadays people are much more focused on themselves, caring little with everyone else, what includes potential children.

It's a phenomenon of our days where people are extremely egoistical and selfish. As consequence, there is little room for children... In previous times people weren't even concerned if they had enough financial conditions to raise a family, but they always managed to do so somehow.

Another possibility is that people had stronger bounds before, what allowed them to have genuine desire for beginning a family. Nowadays people get bored of each other too fast and bounds aren't for real.

That's some old cultural belief from our grandparents and it shouldn't be tolerated by us. We're in the new age and we have to let our kids enjoy what they want to do when they get older. Or pretty much if you can't afford a home for the aged when you get older, you shouldn't let your kids take care of you when you get old. Unless, your kid loves you so much and volunteers to do it. But, the best thing to do is to make them enjoy their lives because we're past our primes and we have to let them feel that there is so much for this world for them to discover.

Reproduction and proceed are laws of nature, so I believe it's necessary to have children. It's important to have children before you get too old. No matter how bad your financial situation, there's a way. But I'd rather have a child, whether I'm financially well off or not, than regret not having children when you're too old. Life has always been difficult, so ignore the difficulties and have children to continue your lineage.

How old are you by the way… maybe you’re still too young and just enjoying the life of being single. But once you get older and start looking for a more serious and peaceful life, you’ll understand that having kids is what really makes life complete.

Even rich people like celebrities who can’t have kids of their own, no matter how much money they have, end up adopting because they want to experience raising a child and to be called parents. If you’re not in that position, you won’t really understand.

With that kind of mentality you might end up not getting married or not having kids at all. Sometimes we need to look at the brighter side. I know people who struggled a lot when they were single, but once they got married and had kids their finances improved because they were inspired. They worked harder for their family.

While financial stability is a helpful tool in raising a kid, but financial instability isn’t a barrier to raise a good kid. It’s more on decision making, emotional preparedness and personal values that parents chose to believe since they also adopt it from their great ancestors.

So if you decide to have a child, know that having sufficient amount of finances is a crucial factor but it isn’t a sole determiner that will guarantee raising a good life for that child. There are still a lot of factors to consider, and every parent or couple should work on it to ensure a healthy and brighter future of their child.

Well, that’s a good mindset but I don’t totally rely on a single thought like that. Having a kid is a blessing, it’s an opportunity for us parents to become better and responsible guardians throughout our child’s journey. And having a kid creates a different level of joy and life’s satisfaction, as you may get tired in life but once you see your child, it will definitely change your mood and even improve your life’s perspective.

I’d see having a child is an obligation, like we are obligated to give them a happy and healthy life, and pour them all our love and affection, and that’s how parents should be to their kids.

You say people are egotistical and selfish to not have kids meanwhile at the start of your comment, you mention, having children was good idea so they could be used as working force — you realize how absurd that sounds?

I don't think so. On the contrary, if we're not rich, we should have children to be more motivated to earn enough money to meet all our children's needs.

That's for the short term, but in our old age, having children will greatly benefit us. It's not about expecting anything in return, but the world works that way. When we give everything to our children, we will receive the same in return someday.

Well I do think if people want to have kids then they can have the kids. We must make sure the human race does go on and we need to have people to make kids.
Not all people in this world are well off. So if we made it so only a person with alot of money or is well off can have kids I do not think it is right.
I do not think a person who does live on a street or is sick should have kids. It will not be fair for those kids to have them in a life like that.

It's not about just "surviving", it's about to live with "minimum needs", not comfortable nor luxury.

If the mother can't breastfeed due to unexpected situation, you must able to buy a good quality formula milk and drink based on the serving size. Don't reduce the serving size due to frugal as your excuse, also don't replace it with condensed milk.

As a human we need to eat enough protein, vegetables and fruits, remember "enough" not just having a small piece of chicken meat, a small serving vegetable, a piece of dragon fruit. But it should meet the minimum need.

Don't think like this "I will bring enough protein, vegetables and fruits to my wife and child, it's okay for me just to eat a big bowl of rice and small chicken", that's stupid. You're working, which mean you should be more healthy than them, if you eat like that, you will sick and can't go work, in the end it ruins everything.

Yep, it's very unfortunate.

If the kids did wrong, the kids are forced to obey what their parents said.
If the parents/grandparents did wrong, then the kids correct it, the parents/grandparents won't accept it and say the kids is rebellious.

Probably, depends on how much my wealth and woman that loves me.

If I'm rich, she's rich and not a feminist, that's one step closer for serious relationship.

IF, someday your children not give anything back to you when you're old, what would be your reaction?

Well it depends... Personally I think it depends. You can't decide to not have kids till the economy becomes better, what if the economy never becomes better? Or at least never becomes better during your time on earth, are you never going to have kids then? But at the same time, having kids, not just 1, 2, or 3, but over 5, 6 and so on, when you're not capable of taking care of all of them is bad. Why bring them all into the world only for them to suffer?  You should rather leave them where they were.

So, I'd say no matter how tough the economy is, a person can raise a child or 2. Even before getting married and having children, you should save for your children. No matter how little you earn, one should be able to put down a thing or two for their children in the future. And also, try not to give birth to many children.

If you can’t afford kids it’s probably not the best idea to have them yet. Raising children is expensive & struggling to cover basics like food, housing & healthcare can make life harder for both the parents & the child. It doesn’t mean you should never have kids but waiting until you’re more stable financially usually gives the child a better start & reduces stress for everyone.

Smart parents plan properly(Proper finances, stable relationships etc) before bringing kids into this world in order to try and give them great lives while the dumb ones simply don't plan much and just go with the flow of things leaving everything to fate.

Sadly, most people are dumb parents while the minority are smart parents which will most likely never reverse in my opinion.

My question is, what happens when we grow too old to take care of ourselves? In my opinion, instead of not having children at all, it’s wiser to have at least one. We should do our very best to give that child the best life we can afford. Then, once they come of age and are financially stable, we can consider adoption depending on our financial capacity at that time.

The main reason for this approach is to secure our future in old age. It would be worse if, after all the years of toiling while we were younger, we ended up with no one to look up to or rely on when we can no longer help ourselves.

Having kids, is a personal decision and there are certain factors that will determine or influences the choice to have kids.

Some people may not want to have kids for some reasons, which could range from; financial strength, health, and their emotional, mental ability to handle children.

Remember, it is not just about getting a woman pregnant or getting pregnant as a woman.

Their are questions every one should ask themselves and answer themselves honestly before considering having children.

It is not enough to have the financial ability, but being able to accept the responsibility that comes with it.
There are changes in lifestyle both for men and women. Before having children, the intending parents should be prepared to take the task that come with having kids. Because it is enormous, finance alone can not o the job.
Unless you want to have children just for the sake of it, and they can go ahead and raise themselves. By being their own guide, mentor and instructor.

The school can not do the raising of a child in a way the parents will be proud of.
Am saying economy alone is not enough to urge me to have a kid.

Childbearing is not just about age; it is a responsibility that requires money, and if you are not fit to provide for a child, there is no need to bring anyone into this world. Give birth according to the money you have to provide for, and if the money is not there at all, there is no need to make plans for bearing children.

 The same applies to married people; the reason why we have birth control is so that married couples can make plans and manage their births. The reason for poverty is when people give birth to children that they can't even take care of; it just increases the rate of population, which exacerbates poverty.

Make some money for yourself before you think of having children, because when children are not being taken care of very well, they become problems for society.

Having one for care ourselves is surely not favourable because still it's mindset and depend on both what are they looking for currently too many those are surviving without having anyone because they feel they can care themselves, and they never need kids.

Changes are happening and peoples are facing serious issues just because of this now mindset are changing because peoples those can't afford they are not thinking to take risk with they are also not mentally feeling good about this here they are not having anything related to care. In many developed countries, they can afford, but their mindsets are not prepared for this so they are ignoring this but in developing countries there things are the lowest level, and they can't afford they are having terrible figures of increasing population.

Smart people plan properly before they have children but I know too many that things went hurrible wrong for after they bring kids into the world, if successful people can still go broke in the future then anything is bound to happen. If I am in a position to advice anyone here right now I would say make sure you have atleast a child, because if becoming successful is all you have in mind and that's all you keep chasing after you might realize that you've wasted so much time trying to become successful and still yet you haven't become successful. I am not voting for bringing kids into this world when you can't even take care of yourself, but having one won't take a ton on you compare to someone who is struggling and went ahead bringing multiple kids into this world.

It makes sense --- especially since poor people have children who will be a burden to them while supporting themselves is still difficult but we can't say that because there are still many people who are not rich but have many children.

For me having two children is enough because in the future I have to think about their future with higher costs especially when they go to school if for example there are more children the burden on parents will be even greater to support them.

Having children is God's will. However, achieving financial freedom before having children is certainly everyone's dream, so that our children don't experience the same hardships we did.

And when we have children, even if our financial situation is unstable, we can't blame them for their birth or regret it. Instead, the presence of a child should motivate us to strive even harder for success. And no matter how tiring our efforts, we should still return home with a smile, even if we return home with failure. Always return home with a smile; family and children are the real antidote to the fatigue of life's journey. Make them believe that you will be able to guide them to a better future.

If a person is as poor as church mouse, then that person should think thousand times before planning a baby. But if a person managed to get bills pays, isnt starving, have clothes, why then «low income» be a problem? How come in past, people that did not have anything, only garden with vegetables and hunting, managed to raise children? If money is the main issues in having baby or not having baby, I suggest to check all benefits that government give. Parents receive monthly child support money, after birth quite an amount. I havent checked, but maybe government also provide with food. In my country they give a huge pack of diapers when baby is born (heh, this is only for few months). I am 100% sure that there is government support, as they need to support their future voters :)

You are absolutely right, I agree with you. We live in a world where the rich don’t have children, while the poor have many. If I had a child, I would create a portfolio for them starting from infancy and invest in it every month. They need to have money for education or starting a business when they grow up.

Children are blessings from God and don't be self centered because assuming your parent thought like this, they wouldn't have given birth to you and you wouldn't exist. Life is all about planning and staying positive.

Sometimes, having kids will motivate you to think outside the box and look for other means to increase your income because you already have a responsibility to take care of. If you feel that because of family responsibilities that you are scared of and refuse to get married, it means that you are not a man enough. One child is enough.

You're right. Couples should carefully think it through and plan before they start procreating. If they're not ready financially, they should work harder because raising a child can be quite expensive. Sadly, I live in a part of the world where most people don't take this into consideration. They give birth, and after that, they start looking for family members to assist in raising their kids. Sometimes these children don't get the proper love, care and attention, and they end up being a nuisance to the society.

Yeah your opinion and not mine, children are gifts from God and I have received mine and I'm grateful to God because I have my children to pass my legacy on. However, I agree with you to an extent though, anyone that isn't well off shouldn't be thinking about having kids because it will be cruel to bring children to the world to suffer. I made not have all the luxury in the world but I give the best to my kids and my kids are my biggest motivation to be successful at least for their future. Some people bring children to the world without any plans and with zero financial strength and they hope on family and friends to help out in raising their kids which is totally wrong. In summary I'd say that we shouldn't wait to be billionaires first before having children because what if you don't become a billionaire before you turn 80yrs? And sometimes kids are your biggest motivation too so when you are financial buoyant before they return.

Same for me. I don't have plan on having kids with the financial and economic conditions I'm experiencing now. Having kids is a lifetime commitment. Once you decided to have one, your only focus will only be how to give them a good future.

I won't force myself to have a kid even if the society demands it if my financial income is not enough to build a family. Some would disagree to my opinion but I'd rather become single in the future than bear a child and make him suffer.

It's the sad truth and here in our country, the teenage pregnancy is rampant and so, the kids grow with less provision and all they say that it's because of poverty. They don't have an experience on how to work and that's why they're forced into labor just to provide their kids some milk and other important needs. I think that blaming poverty has always been the reason for most of these mistakes that these people does. But, they don't look at how smart they are because it's their fault. They didn't used contraceptives and never have planned for their future. But they do change, once they've grown older and become more mature to make things right and understand things clearer.

I really appreciate your opinion, if viewed from an economic perspective, having children will absorb a lot of expenses for living expenses and education, especially if you have more than one child, it will require you to continue working hard to meet the family's living expenses. However, in terms of happiness, not all rich people can live a happy life, life will feel empty without the presence of children in the family.

In my opinion, true wealth is when you have children and I believe that God has entrusted the blessings of children to parents. I have seen how my parents struggled in raising me, they were never afraid of poverty even though they had to support themselves and 4 children, so there is no reason for me to break their lineage because they have taught me how to survive and live a life full of happiness even though from an economic perspective they are not very rich.

My kids all died.

I would have been better off not getting my wife pregnant.

Humanity is pretty much doomed.

So why make any kids anymore at all?


I really detest those that continuing their lineage means something in the long run.

Now if you like fucking and your spouse wants to have lots  of sex to make kids that's fine.

But kids like all of us are not import at all.

I say this because God whacks them with impunity.

The only people that understand what I am saying are those that had all their offspring  whacked .

Op asked and I answer.

you dont need to be rich or be well off before having kids, you just need to have something doing that can be generating a steady income that may well feed you and also your family. if you want to be stingingly rich before having kids or even getting married am afraid you may never have none. the truth about life is that none of us knows when we will become rich, riches  might come when we are  young or when we are old, and if it comes when we are old then its of no use to us. except those wealth will be wiled to family members or donated to charity organization . those that wanted to be rich before getting married later regretted when it was too late because the business they where doing could fed for themselves and family but they neglected it thinking it was too small, only to see themselves getting old when getting married now becomes difficult even when they have the money.

the truth of the matter is that before making babies you need to plan yourself because the economy is getting harder by the day, if you dont plan well you might land yourself in an unwanted situation where you will think your kids are the reason for your backwardness why they are not. but when i talk about planning i dont mean that you must be that rich but at least be financially buoyant so that you will not feel regretful later run.

In this modern day economy?

Honestly though, I'd forget about it if I don't have a house, good salary, and stable income.

It's too expensive these days to start a family. University is also getting more expensive, so you need to stash some money on top of the daily expenses that keep rising exponentially.

In other words, if you can start family without financial problem, you're already well off person.

Children are needed, whether for family prosperity or for family hardship. Our country has a birth control policy that says no more than two children, one is better. If a family is economically prosperous, then there will be no problem in having two or three children because the family is quite prosperous. But in the case of families that are not economically prosperous, i.e., not economically prosperous, it is better to have one child. However, being childless is not desirable at all because children are definitely needed to bring diversity and beauty to the family.

True, the difference is knowledge.

In the past, our parents only finish elementary school/junior high school and they can't see the world because cellphone was very expensive. Now, most people are at least finish senior high school, many of them even have degree and we can see the world, almost everyone have cellphone.

In the past, people needs is only food, now it's more than just food.

It's true the government give benefits for child support, but it's not enough.

It means you have no ambition in the first place and you need something to force you to make more money? my friends usually said this, if you feel your life is flat, take BMW mortgage. :P

I don't know if I'm not a man enough, but I'm a hardworking person.

I like to hear from people who speak from life experiences, and who can be better than you Phillipma  ;D

I don't have offspring, and I don't plan to, can you elaborate why you say what you say with sentence, "I say this because God whacks them with impunity"—  And did all your offsprings got whacked? Like all? Although, death does imply one got whacked anyhow, but I am still shamelessly asking to elaborate.

And to all who breed children for, 'old age' look here, it's possible they might die before you get old — now, don't say, we'll breed plenty, so chances of their survival are high.

I completely understand what is going through your mind, that is why you think like that, but I also have my own views regarding the presence of children in the midst of a family from an economic perspective and complementing happiness in marriage. In my point of view, children are priceless treasures, they can also be considered as a long-term investment when we are no longer productive.
Just imagine if your wife had passed away when you were 60 years old or older, at that time you would really miss the presence of a child to accompany or take care of you for the rest of your life. Wealth can give you financial freedom, but children will complete your happiness in living a life full of meaning.

This is a shallow thought, and perhaps the reason for saying this is because people don't want to go through the trouble of earning money to support their children. In our religious tradition, a child brings blessings to parents, so sustenance will flow from wherever we are willing to work to earn it. A lazy person will certainly find a way to justify their laziness, so even without children, they always make excuses.

I believe everyone has an innate desire for sustenance, and it depends on how willing a person is to work, not wait. When someone is willing to take action, there will always be a way to earn money, even if the amount sometimes varies, and children can also be a source of strength for parents.

Every enlightened couple that understands the economic situation in local and global economies will surely make solid plans before having kids, children are huge responsibility that parents must prepare themselves before having them. I have seen illiterate couples who are poor and keep having many children, I dare to challange some that I know personally why they don't go for family planning and not producing more kids. They tell me that it is God that gives children and I always ask them why God didn't give them enough money to take care of their children as they are supposed to. Overpopulation is one of the major reasons of increased crime rate and prostitution among young people because their parents could not afford to provide for their basic needs.

If a person dont want children, that person will find million excuses why he/she cant have children. If a person cant have children because of lac of money, that is an excuse for me. There will never be enough money. Even rich people wish they would have more. Any person could name million things he lack money for, even though that person isnt poor and have a good job. Child always have two parents, grandmas and grandpas are always ready to help financially or look after child when you are at work. Money can be borrowed from friend and if you tell they are to raise a child, they will never push on requesting for return. People make excuses, because they dont want to change their way of life and not ready for responsibility.

Logically speaking, if you are not wealthy, you should not have children because they require a lot of money to raise.

But honestly, I don't believe this statement because children can bring blessings even if you are not wealthy. However, it comes back to each person's beliefs because every country has different views. In my country, for example, it is not a problem if people are not wealthy but still have many children because they believe that children can bring blessings according to their religion.

I respect your own perspective but if you will stick having this kind of mindset, you will grow old and die alone. And that’s the sad reality having no children around that will care and protect you from all harm.

I believe raising a kid well carries a heavy obligation. That’s why others fear of becoming a parent because they think they aren’t capable and good enough. But always know that money isn’t the whole thing about raising a kid, it needs more than that. And as long as you can be a good son or daughter to your parents, you can also be a good parent as well in the future. Money is important, but raising a kid is more about love and empathy that every parent is capable to give.

You know, having a child is really expensive. You need to have a consistent flow of income so that you can ensure a good future of your child. But we all know the joy of having a child cannot be measured with any amount nor comparable to any kind that brings joy and satisfaction. It’s still a different feeling when you have a child of your own, despite of the sacrifices that it will carry that any parent should be ready to suffer.

Having a child is a blessing. So one shouldn’t be hesitant raising a child, otherwise it’s like you are refusing to accept a blessing coming from above.

If you would really think of the expenses that come with raising a child, you would seriously think of considering having at least one for your own. But this opportunity most of the time is not planned, unless, you have a partner that already have plans to build a family. It would really take a lot of resources and time to nurture a child but yes, do think of your future without even one kid of your own. Is it fulfilling for you? Will you be happy on your own? Just few questions that you need to ask for yourself. Because you can always find money, but you can't always have the kid at all stages of your life. Do remember, if you are a woman, there's expiration date to bear a kid. Unless, you will just adopt one.

Your opinion reflects on your own personality. Money is everything, so I can’t blame you if you see it as the most important requirement before having a child. You don’t want to take risk, you just want to let your child lives conveniently. And that’s also a good consideration to be honest.

However, mine is different. I see it having a child as a non-negotiable. It’s like I’m destined to be a parent, and I would love that, and I would do everything to provide the needs and even wants of my future children, despite how tough the path is to be a well-off individual.

Kids are very much important as we need them but the bad side of it is that withoutl proper planing  you might feel regretful due to not being financial bouyant before going into marriage and such person may cast the blame on the child or the wife as a reason for his misfortune. I have come across several situation where married people fight over husband not having enough money to Carter for the family. On a norms marriage or kid was sopos to be a good  thing or blessing but it turns to worst nightmare. So we need proper planing before getting married or having our kid since the economic system is hard.

Every person should definitely have children, but if we consider it according to economic criteria, then no person should get married without being financially independent. Every man should definitely create a workplace and save money and then sit in the wedding hall, people who are not financially independent always have problems in their families. Because even after that, if a child is born, then more poverty has to be drawn in that family, where every man keeps running to different places for work and the boys and girls spend their days hungry.
All these things are seen most on social media and can also be seen among our neighbors, but this is a lack of intelligence. If the boys and girls are educated, these things can definitely be eliminated, and every person should become self-reliant and then start a family.

In fact, economic growth often depends on family size. If your family size is too large, and you are unable to cover the costs of supporting your family, then you should not increase the number of members in your family. But for parents who are financially well-off and have a large family, there may be no problem in having children. Whether poor or rich, it is better for both parents to have as many children as they can afford to support their family.

Most people want to marry their partner and also want children, and in some countries, having children is a blessing. There may be people who are married but don't want children, but I don't understand the exact reason. The most common reason is that they delay having children because the woman is sometimes not ready to have them.

You're right, children can sometimes be a source of strength for their parents. Many people want to have children because it's a tradition, and I believe all countries and religions share the same concerns.

Whether to have children or not is the right of each individual, what matters is that once you have children, you are fully responsible for their lives to be better than ours as parents.
Parents should not only provide them with enough food every day but also other things like education and attention, so they can grow well and become successful individuals.
I see, especially in my country, how parents only think about having children, but their children do not receive good things, whether it is food, education, or others. It is very ironic.

Just because you are rich and smart, doesn't make sense to have no child. This doesn't mean that you should spread your economy to just you, you could still have many kids, because that means they will be raised maybe not rich, but smart, because they would have two smart parents.

So good people should always try to have as many kids as they can, even if the child doesn't raise up in a wealthy life, that doesn't mean that they will have a bad life. People who are decent humans, will raise those children to be decent humans as well. This would be something that could grow people to make as much success with children as they can. Whereas, people who are bad, could have 10 billion dollars, and it wouldn't change a thing, bad people will have bad kids, and it would be up to kids to teach themselves who to be good.

Do you think people live in a disabled way all the time? Never because humans will live someday and live life and human life is never the same.  I will always say when having kids. Whatever the situation, if you are married, you must have kids. The child is a blessing and the family in which there is blessing is not a crisis of money. Because I think that the one who spends it is the same income.  For example, the population is high in your family, then your income will be much higher. Moreover, I never think that it is reasonable to have kids from the point of view of the economy. But if our children are educated in good education, then their future will be brighter. And when we grow old, they will nurture us beautifully. This is what every parent's child is asked for.

The upbringing of children is not just about providing for their education; yes, all these are good, and these are things that need to be provided, but the truth is that these things are not enough.

There is a lot to be done when it comes to childbearing. One of the most important things a child needs is education and morals. If these two are not there, it can be a serious problem for society. It is the responsibility of parents to give their children morals and ethics and a good education.

At least with this, they can add value to society. Parental care is a serious commitment that every parent needs to be prepared for before raising children, and if anyone is not ready for this, they should not make any plans for bringing children into the world unless they can take care of them well.

Of course raising a children or will I say training up a children is not all the educational aspect which you have also stress on, it has to do with the home training, you know there's a saying that if you want to get it right, get them young, you children at that tender age needs our care and pamper but it should also have limit because the can actually take advantage of the situation and start misbehaving that's why the parental hood is not something to joke with, you can't just call yourselves parents with performing the duty of parents.
Some parents are very careless about the whole situation,infact they don't even care about anything, what they care about is money, money, money, they empty Nanny for everything, children sometimes may even grow up sometimes knowing only the Nanny not even their really parents just because of careless parents, as far as we have chosen to be parent, we must take up the responsibilities that are involved, that's my take on this.

I see nothing wrong with having multiple kids for a capable couple. Everyone knows what's actually right for them and they'll always go for it. Nobody would see fire and walk right straight to it, unless the Vietnam monk. However, kids are from God, and a pure gift that brings joy to families, while it's great to moderate the number of children we add to our homes, seeing not giving birth as a way to survive a harsh economy can be really disturbing, especially when the parents don't know their fate in life. Average people can get filthy rich, and most time, they'll begin to regret some decisions they didn't take while they had little.

The cost of raising children is high. Child support benefits from the government alone cannot cover the cost of raising children in some countries.  I don't blame people who consider their financial standings before bearing children because they don't want to give birth to children they canni6 take care of. Religiously and culturally children are considered a blessing but you would have to plan how to take care of them because it's not cheap.

But I don't support the option of going childless. If the youth decide not to have children, it will cause demographic problems.  This will affect the country negatively economically and politically.

Habibi come to my country, are you comparing fire to having multiple kids that you can't cater for? This is complete joke, one burnt you up in second and kill you leaving your body in a agony state while the other isn't even close.

Stop the cap bro, many people are making less than or approximately $100 every month in my country and they have more than three children, they live a wretched life and they don't see anything wrong with it.

The problem is these kids will turn into nuisance, they will start creating havoc in the city because good education is impossible at this point, they can't even been fed full.

God is the creator of all humans and animals, let's stop fine running things as if babies are special gift, aren't you special too? You are once a baby, not giving birth is a way to survive harsh economy, it's not even about you, if you like go into the wilderness and live like an animal, just don't bring a baby into such suffering, one day they will look back and rain curse on you.

I believe this is a simple case, regardless if you are wealthy or poor if you are irresponsible, don't get married and have kids.  Best not to have sex so that there will be no accidental pregnancy.  People who are selfish and irresponsible have no right to have kids because it will be their partner and kids who will suffer.

Responsible parents will do whatever they can to support their family.  So this is not a question of whether a person is rich or poor, although poor people have lots of struggles, they, at the end, fuifill their responsibilities.  I have witnessed several poor family improving their social status because their kids are able to finish their studies and landed a good job improving their way of living.  

In personal perspective, if you are not ready to have a kids then don't.  No one is forcing anyone to mate with someone and have kids.

From a national economic perspective, there is a need for the continuation of lineage to maintain economic activities.  If all of a sudden, poor people stop breeding, it is not only themselves that suffer but also the economic growth.  This can be seen in the country that controls population growth to the extreme. Family planning is good, but extreme population control somehow deteriorates the economic capability and stability of a nation, what more if every poor person won't bear a child because of their situation.

But we also need to think rationally that, even though children are a blessing from God, having too many can become a burden for the family. I remember my neighbor who had five children, with the parents working as ride-hailing drivers and street food vendors. The children often struggled to have proper meals each day and were very limited when it came to snacks and other small things. Sometimes I would give them snacks when they played with my child.

This shows that as parents, we shouldn’t be selfish by only thinking about having more children without being able to provide for them properly. Having children is not a problem as long as their needs are met, because neglecting them and making their lives difficult is an unpleasant act in the eyes of God.

Very good opinion and should be sounded down to the ear of Africans. Most poor Africans make as many as kids in the woman's ovary without having a good source of livelyhood, coupled with the menance of a bad government.
Most African Parents believe that child bearing is a gift from God and they must exhaust all the gifts they have.

Make only the kids you are able to give a good life. Don't bring innocent children out to the world to suffer. If possible don't have kids if you don't have it have to train kinds.

Even if you give birth to a child, your responsibility does not end, but rather it increases and if you give birth to a child in a situation where you are not financially well then there can be chaos. Many people, considering their social responsibility, are interested in having children even though their financial situation is not good, which is certainly not logical. You should establish yourself and if you can be financially well, then you should only have children. Otherwise, family lead unhappy life.

My country is overpopulated, it would do immense good to country if my countrymen hold their dicks and only breed if they have means to.


Hahahaha!


Precisely. Childrens do not consent to be born, procreation is an act that should only be done if you can provide quality upbringing.

Some decisions we should take, there're certain factors we ought to consider before further actions.One thing about Child birth and parenting is that it's not a decision to be taken just overnight.Choosing to give birth or not;they both have their costs, benefits and disadvantages depending on economical capacity and horizon.

Having to do with parenting one needs to be prepared and it involves looking at other angles of life of which the economy aspect shouldn't be taking for granted. So if you're well to do all round then you can go on with having kids. Remember it's a decision and you must be prepared to face every stages that it comes with. I wouldn't want my kids to suffer so I'll do my best in setting the pace first before their arrival.

I may have said this somewhere already but this is a new thread, so let me post what I wrote.

In finance, your family, kids, wife, mom, sibling and everyone except you is a liability so now you can decide whether you don't want the liabaility or not but the one primary reason for every living organism ever existed in this planet is to pass their generation to next one and this is not just limited to wealth alone.

This is some post I saw online and Iove it( image  below). Men should be courageous enough to make strong plans. Well, I dislike that the economy has made things become this way. My Grandpa was a locomotive driver and he was able to care for his 6 wives and 20+ children. That was possible because we had a better economy. Finally,  taking a bold steps into the unknown makes me want t try. This is something I want,  I will go all in.
https://talkimg.com/images/2025/08/24/UZYAlC.jpeg

Coming from a third world country, you get to find out many people earning below the minimum wage if they earn from some work at all, having more kids than those that we might consider to be living well above the standards of living.

At times, this comes under culture and what people consider as wealth or good living. Some find this in the context of having to shelter and cloth them as we see with the nomads and others can as well count their wealth in the number of children they’ve got.

Overtime, you find many panhandles employing the services of their kids well below 10years of age, asking for arms on the streets, running towards vehicles in traffics and approaching strangers on the walkway to seek aids. It’s always a terrible sight and no matter what you do to help, they are never off the street and never tries to stop panhandling. To these persons, more children means more children on the streets to seek aid. You always find them on them nursing kids and you wonder just how are these persons still having unprotected s*x and more kids.

I don’t think they shouldn’t have kids, even them too needs to continue their lineage but, it should be limited as such with hopes that, their kids if not given, might be able to find a better future for themselves.

I agree. Having kids is beautiful and they are the biggest gift to our life. But we also have to be objective, life is hard. Especially if you do not have a stable job. Some kids these days are quite confident and they think they can do it but at the end they always ask for help from their parents so now the parents have to help their kids and grandkids instead of the other way around. I hope kids these days end up becoming financial stable first before thinking about having kids. Because they will not be the only ones to find life difficult but especially their kids.

6 Wives, 20+ children, holy jesus!...and that image you shared, my honest opinion on it is that — that kind of mindset is retarded — why are people infatuated with bloodline? And infatuation with misery? And of perpetuating it? and of considering suffering a good thing?

On this particular part — "weak men plan, strong men plant" — yea, it takes much to plant, and nothing to plan; can definitely see who's stronger and who's weak.

Did you miss where I added for capable parents? And I don't like it when people think what causes bad upbringing is lack of money. The rich kids have their own bad behaviors too. Life isn't always about having the most money before you take a decision. Your 20th child could become the president. Think about it.

For me a child's gift from God, while the economy of God's possessions.
Meaning: The child is obtained from the marriage can be interpreted as a form of generosity, dedication, responses to prayer to God to the individual.
Economy: Assets that God's entrusted to individuals to be maintained, cared for, stored or conveyed to others.

Meaning: Two things children and wealth have different lines of travel, sometimes this human is tested given by children but not wealth and vice versa is given wealth but not given children, this process is like day and night.
If it is rich in having children and poor do not have children, it means that the world is unbalanced.
Example:
In the company there are 1000 employees who work mostly poor people, if the poor do not have children automatically the rich will die no one works, The rich child does not want to be a laborer or other person's employees, he thinks his parents are rich and vice versa so all of this hangs with each other.

If poor people stop breeding, there will be less competition in jobs and this will lead to better wages, thus better qol; plus you realize, you just said, poor people should continue to breed, so their children toil just as their parents did!? How bad that is?

I know someone who jumped into marriage because his age mates were getting married. A year later, they had a child, and the family became bigger. His small salary could not sustain the family, and he was running into serious debts. It got to a point he abandoned the family and ran away. So, do not read much into the motivational post. Look before you leap. Have something good going on for yourself before you embark on the journey. Raising a child can be quite expensive.

My first reaction when I read his post, which religion allow to have 6 wives? :D

AFAIK most religions only allow 1, while in Islam allow up to 4 wives, so it seems to me like his grandparent an atheist and his dream is to fuck with many healthy women. I know people can just go to prostitutes if they want to have sex, but some people don't want to do that due to health risk.

Most people who have many wives will do everything to earn money including illegal and harmful ways.

Why absurd?

That was one of the main purposes people had lots of children in ancient times. People lived in countryside and needed abundant workforce to plant, gather and to feed the animals. There weren't automatic procedures to make it for them. Then within time, the number of children per family have been decreasing, until the point nowadays there are many people who don't even want to have a single child.

If it wasn't for this concept of family, probably those people would starve, unable to keep all the daily tasks completed. Then there wouldn't be anyone here today to claim how absurd that was...

Why not? Not giving birth harms none, i.e, even if people decide to have no children for egotistical/selfish reasons, no harm is caused. Meanwhile, to breed kids just so they help you with field work is well you are literally creating a laborers. I don't know about you, but it certainly does not sound good to me.


Or may be, it's just that sex is highest pleasure available to men (not counting drugs), so they fuck and since there were no contraceptives available, pregnancy was the result. 


Lol, that's nice burn, but in my defense, I would be perfectly fine in non-existence.

I don’t think it’s proper to have kids when you know you can’t really take proper care of them at that particular period, if you are planning to have a kind, then it’s better you are financially stable, at least you should be able to take care of the necessary things which they will be needing. Just imagine that you are not financially good, and you decide to give birth, how are you going to take care of them, you just going to make them suffer, which some children might end up involving themselves into criminal activities just because they want to survive.

Some people don’t really think before having Kids, they might be struggling for survival, and they will still give birth, which is total wrong to me, am not saying you are suppose to be fucking rich before having kids, but at least have a means that you will be able to take care of them, and just give birth to the number of kids you can take care of.

Economically? You’re right. Kids cost €150–200k to raise to 18 in most of Western Europe. If you’re not financially stable, you’re signing up for debt and stress. Wait until you can handle it without hurting yourself or them.

Decision to having kids or not should not be taken from the perspective of the economy situation, because we basically have to depend on what we can afford to take and prefer to have when it comes to child birth, because I've seen people who can't even afford to manage a living despite that they only have a single child, while some were having many children and affording to live a desired standard of living, everyone goes for what they want at last.

I understand your points very well because having a kids and not able to give them the right attention they want in life is very wrong. I wouldn't have my child, to ask for anything good and I cant provide it. They have to get the right education, security, and everything good in life. Its not good to give birth to children to suffer. Its better you dont give birth at all., if you cant take good care of them.

There is also no need for anyone to hesitate in giving birth, if they are up to the age and care give them the right treatment. The economy isn't getting worst, so if you have a plan to have kids in the future, then lay the foundation now.

The problem of today's world is that stupid and poor people are having kids, and educated wealthy people are not. It is a consequence of the welfare state, no welfare or foreign aid should be given to these uneducated parasites.

Of course it should. The only reason why many children are suffering is because their parents didn't consider their own situation or the wider economical perspective before having them. Most people in undeveloped places should have never had any children.

Of course, this is the only correct approach to this topic. Everything else is pure selfishness of bad people who pretend that they are good.  :) Don't be stupid like this guy below, he is a case example of the uneducated people in third world countries.

Complete delusional selfishness.

There is the common abbreviation that you'd see in social media now like in TikTok about couples decided to be a DINKWAD.
"Double income no kid with a dog/s".
They like to have no kids at all and as a couple, they're pouring their love to the dogs that they have. And there is nothing wrong if you don't want to have kids. But a country that has a lot of citizens that have this mindset could impact their future economy. I think Japan and South Korea are having this less birth rate on them and the people from their economy could be lesser but a good thing is they can always export people from foreign countries to have their jobs filled by them through a working visa.

Being DINKWAD is a life choice and is no one to judge someone who does not want a child and would rather spend their time raising pets or do something less restrictive in their life. Nevertheless, when large numbers of people in a country follow this lifestyle, then there is likely to be impact on the population growth and may slow down economic growth over the long term. Countries such as Japan and South Korea already experience aging populations and decreasing birth rates, which can cause problems to both labor supply and the social system. Immigration and foreign workers can contribute at the same time, but it is not the ideal solution. It is the compromise between the choice of individuals, as well as national demographics.

I do not agree with your opinion because your words imply that if a person is not well-off, he should not have children, but I want to say that even if he is not well-off, he should still have children. Many people can become well-off by having children. If you observe, you will see that many poor people are having children and they are raising their children as proper human beings. Especially if you go to the rural areas and observe there, you will see that there are many people who, despite being poor, are raising their children as proper human beings and sending them to various universities and colleges. So, if you do not have children, you can never claim to be a man to people because a child is something for which everything can be sacrificed.

Sorry I am late to the conversation OP.  What is this "I" you write of if you do not exist?

I had about a week in the hospital recovering from surgery to think about these things, esp since I do not remember anything that happened once I was put on the operating table until I woke up in ICU.   Did I exist during those couple hours?  I had no power to do anything or even think, so if I still existed, what does "I" mean?

Parents of children in poorer countries rely on them as domestic slaves.  The more girls they have, the more boys they can support.    But there is no reason to have children to help you the same way there is no reason to plant trees for CO2 capture - both will be destroyed before they become net positive.

What we want is not enough to decide what we should do. We should definitely decide whether to have kids from an economic perspective because we will only be making our own lives and our kids’ lives a lot harder than it’s supposed to be. Personally I would be happy to provide for my kids the best that I can.

Yes, and the laborers they raised, brought another generation of laborers to the world. That was the life's cycle back then. However, who are you to claim it was done for egoistical and selfish purposes? What authority do you have to claim that? It's a matter of human beings struggling to survive and evolve along several generations, while passing their legacy ahead.

Life was harder before technology became available, but it's definitely not a reason to feel ashamed about.

Well, then try getting some help. It's not a good sign to think such things.

This is catch 22 because children literally are the future economy and represent the growth of the nation, they are vital in multiple ways.
  A country which cannot support its children has in effect failed and seriously needs to readjust its priorities back towards growth.    In times of world war perhaps we can say otherwise but it should be a temporary condition or you will suffer massive harm to your culture, to the economy and demographically the economy will not support itself without enough workers to support pensioners and so on.  
   Technology can only replace so much and we gained a massive amount of progress in the past few decades but technology cannot entirely replace people only refine their labor towards greater efficiency.
  
Its such a modern failure that we accept so many people are not there who should be and populations and countries are shrinking in many parts of the world, this is a kind of self defeat others think it best somehow.

You get it. God and other reasons are just excuses for their selfishness and greed. There is no love involved except narcissistic delusions. If one is very poor, then one should not have children.

At this point a stable population would be much better than growing and of course than a shrinking one. Population does not need to indefinitely grow, and there is nothing wrong with short periods of shrinking either. The powers that be may tell you otherwise, but they are lying.

That would drop us from the surviving number. I do not want to sound like Elon Musk, but the reality is simple, if we all have just zero or one kid, then the number of humans will drop lower. Which isn't horrible for the whole world, but it is a very tough situation for cultures.

Because humanity has became more global, everyone lives in each others nations now, you go to UK and you find a lot of Pakistani, you go to Norway and you find a lot of afghani people, you go to USA and there are a lot of Mexicans, you go to Mexico and you find a lot of Latin American, you go to Africa and there are a lot of white people from Europe.

We are more together now, so if one side has no kids, while other has 5, then culture will change a lot. That is the argument in EU right now, they got a lot of immigrants with tons of kids, if this pace continues, in 50 years, Europe will be an Islam heavy continent. I don't care because I am not in Europe, nor in USA, but they do not like that idea.

I think the decision of whether or not to have children is a deeply personal one. Some people choose to have children for a reasonable reason, while others choose not to for equally for a reasonable reason. It is entirely an individual right, and there is no requirement to choose one or the other.
I think this holds true regardless of a person financial situation or other factors. To my knowledge, no country has a law that prohibits people from having children, some only limit the number of children one can have.
Ultimately, this is a purely personal choice. If today you feel you're not ready to have children due to unstable finances, it's possible that in the future, if your circumstances change, you might decide to change your mind.

It seems there is a little misunderstanding here. Russlenat is not preaching giving birth to numerous kids you can not cater for but simply against Op decision of not having kids at all if one is not doing well. He backed his claim with a word of God from the Holy book. I support Russlenat on this and encourage you as well to have at least a kid because I believe if a man can fend for himself, he's capable of taking care of a child. Moreover, we've witnessed numerous children growing up without parents and later become successful. This means your child survival is completely not in your hand but in the hands of the creator. With or without you, they'll be what they are destined to be in the future. You're only responsible for giving birth to them and you shouldn't deny them that right. However, I'm also against giving birth to multiple kids without having plan for them.

By the way, religion did not specifically mentioned having several kids but asked the followers to multiply. The number of kids you have is completely your decision to make. However, maintaining that you won't have kids at all seems to be against the word of God.

I don't think so, sure, there may be exceptions but as I have observed, if parents are not doing well enough by themselves before having kid, having kid won't make any difference, if not put them in worse position than before.


Not sure what you mean — I exist right now, so I mention 'I'.


Laborers create laborers, mediocrity breeds mediocrity. I don't think these children of laborers ever realize what quality of life is, and what they could have achieved in life had they been born to a "well-off" family.

...and I am not claiming anything, it was you who stated at first that people are selfish/egotistical these days, hence they don't decide to breed meanwhile here is me confused because those "selfish/egostical" people do no harm to anybody while you are grateful to laborers for creating laborers.


May be me reading Schopenhauer has got me pessimistic.


Why do you think fucking is your responsibility and then destiny is in hands of creator?


Man, I would love to hear that word of God from God's mouth, and not from religious books.

I dont understand why there will be less competition in jobs? You think youth wish to take any job offered? Absolutely not. Poor people dont take high positions and earn little. Nobody wants to earn little. If poor vacate jobs, nobody would wish to work on their jobs, but their jobs wont be left vacated, people will be forced (by government) to take them. Wish to be a lawyer? Good, take broom and clean floors. If cleaners earned low and poor people do this job, then if poor people vacate these jobs, think that would increase wages for this job? Absolutely not. Then those who earn good, will ask for a raise, if potential cleaners get increase in wages, and we get back to poor-rich again.

Yes, we have nothing to say to the dinkwads who have decided it because that's their lives to live of and that's what they're available to raise and they understand how tough life is when raising kids. And for the countries who have a lot of aging people, they're accepting more immigrants for their economy to keep up. But we can't also guarantee that they'll be treated fairly because that's where the inequality comes based on the society that they're living. Even if we praise these countries to be a good and first world countries, the racism that's done to immigrants can't be gone.

@libert19, you are partially right, children do cost big financial blows, at least to parents who do not earn that much. Mothers are likely to experience a 3-7% motherhood wage penalty per child & the penalties are much larger for lower wage workers.

Nevertheless, not everything is so bad. The other is the fact that having children can lead to better financial planning since individuals become disciplined and save more and work on creating actual wealth :)

I would say that use of ‘not well-off’ should not be used as blanket rule for not producing children. But be honest about accountability, be prepared, be safe and, when you are ready, then take the initiative and do not just use it as a response to pressure.

For me I think having kids is the right thing to do, but you should give birth to kids you know you can take care of, and not give births to kids you can't cater for, although it's a commandment for God to go to the earth and replenish, but make sure you can take care of the child or children you choose to bring to this world.
I believe when you have a kid, you tend to be more responsible, because you know you have a child that you are responsible for, and it also makes you work harder to provide.

I had a couple of friends (I haven't seen them in a long time) who had a similar mindset to yours... They were & still are alone, without a wife, children, close to fifty, it all seems too late. I understand why that is, but that is a story for another topic.

About 10-15 years ago, I was talking to an old man on this same topic, and I still remember his words: "If everyone had waited for perfect conditions, there wouldn't be any children." Think about that...

So I wasn't "well" alone... but with my wife, that means together, we started to build something... Little by little, helping each other, both on the same page, we make progress. That's something we both care about, and everything we do we both get credits for that... each of us is good/better in some field than the other.

If you are "well off yourself", then your partner should do what? Nothing except pleasing your desires? Just to please you &  take care of you in all ways because you provide money & shelter? :) 50 Shades of gray or something similar? :)

One should not have kids if one is not ready to take the responsibility... It's the same for men & women. If you find a good partner, you will get much further than you can on your own... because with a good partner, you complement each other, what you don't have, she have and vice versa.

I must add, it's like gambling... this choice requires luck, perhaps much greater than when gambling. In gambling, if we are not lucky, we can lose some money (we can always earn more somehow), but if we make a wrong choice with a partner (without luck), we fuck up our entire life and the lives of others involved... an error that cannot be corrected/repaired/compensated (there is no reset button :)). Hard truth...

Developed countries will campaign for having children, and the state will provide free education, healthcare, and benefits for every family. On the other hand, developing countries will tend to campaign for better planning when deciding to have children, with one or two children being enough. Based on this reality, I think anyone can easily understand that the decision to have children is also heavily influenced by economic background and state encouragement.

Some families who are unprepared in many ways, including mentally, will tend to choose not to have children, and to avoid loneliness, they sometimes choose to raise pets instead. I think the choice to have children or not is situational, and for now, I see many people will tend to choose to have children.

Funny enough, the poor keeps breeding and will keep breeding more than the rich.
You know what? When the rich couples are bored, they go vacation and have fun;
But if the poor couple gets bored, they go have sex and make babies ;D

If you are not ready to take full responsibility of any child, it doesn't make any sense to bring them to this world to suffer. I have had my own share of suffered to my standard and with the experience I have gotten, I don't want want to see my own children have such experiences, that's all I can say but if you have the money and you choose not have kids, I feel like you are as a human being yiu have cheated the nature no matter how you try so hard to justify it.

I have seen people that doesn't want to birth children yet they want to adopt and I don't support that. If you have made up your mind not to have kids, you don't deserve to have one unless you are not healthy to have one. People will push all sort of believe and motions for the society to suit their lives but will want to have what it takes to be part of what nature has made for us. You see people that says they are LGBT whatever and doesn't want kids and want to adopt one, why? Make it make sense.

Sure, alot of people have decided not to have kids due to this reason. And sometimes I don't blame them for making such decision because I have seen a lot of kids been abused due the fact that their parents does not have all it takes to train them. You will see some kids hugging  different kind of things along the road, when their mate is in school learning. So I will advise that anyone that does not have all it takes to train up a child should not think of having one.

Honestly I'm looking into having kids but first of all I really want to plan for it because everything is about planning because i want my kids to be in a better position which is why I'm struggling hard to put things in the right place before looking into that aspect.

As long as people are good parents, their financial situation shouldn't matter at all. I have seen very poor single parents raise the greatest kids ever, I have seen two wealthy people who leave their kids to nanny's and go do whatever.

So financial situation doesn't matter at all, it all depends on being a good parent or not. Most people are good parents, because it's a natural instinct, we love our children, so we try our best, not that many people are bad parents. Of course bad parents do exist, we have seen and heard examples all around the world, it is not impossible. But I am talking about majority, like 80% of the world become good parents, so that means not all of them are rich, because not 80% of us are rich.

The OP's opinion seems too categorical to me. On the one hand, the OP is actually right. On the other hand, if most people thought the same way, then humanity would have died out long ago. In general, why is there such a dilemma that turns the birth and upbringing of children into a problem for the majority? This is a consequence of the catastrophic growth of inequality in society. In essence, rising inequality is beginning to limit population growth.

But if you look at it from the point of view of an individual, then rejecting heirs because they are expensive to raise is simply absurd. Then everything that this person has earned in his life will go to no one knows who. So he ended up earning money not even for his own children, but essentially for other people's children. Isn't that silly?

Probably some people wants that, but I'm not.

My mindset is like this, if there was no woman who support me during my process, then I make sure I will marry with woman which the value equal with me. If I'm well off, I will marry with well off woman or no marriage at all.

I don't think it's silly.

Just like the content I watch on Instagram "Plan A: Married by 28, have kids by 30, Plan B: Be That Cool Uncle".

I'm more happier to see my nephew or someone else kids appreciate my small gift instead of living with someone who can't be grateful even I've give 80% of my money and keep pushing to earn more, it's more or less like living in hell.

I think you have wrong perspective on children. Why would your child be grateful that you spend all money on him, if he dont understand what money and be grateful are until he hits some age? There are things you do in life, but nobody say you thank you for doing them, and I know that you dont stop doing them because of that. If you want to talk from money perspective, than children are like investment with expecting something in exchange or profit. Seems silly, but then food also is silly and absurd waste of money, as we eat, food is being digested, and we are hungry again. What a waste of money.

I like adoptions tbh, if there is already a baby that could be taken care off, might as well decide to take care of it instead of creating one's own. However, I also understand why people might not want to adopt and rather have kids of their own as I personally can't even imagine having feelings for adopted kid at all.


What? Are you asking me to give reasons why I ain't gonna have kid?

That is sort of true, because farmers of the time, mostly did not even have enough kids staying alive. No matter how horrific that sounds, you have to remember medical world wasn't as improved as todays, and that meant a lot of people died at young age, the rate of people who didn't see even age 5, was insanely high. So they had to keep having children, enough so that they could grow up to help with the farm or whatever they were working on.

And even back then, even in those ancient times, people like senators, or whatever city job you had, didn't had that many kids, because they didn't need that many kids. Plus, protection wasn't as easy as today, so every time you be with your spouse, there was a chance of pregnancy, higher than today.

I realize that my reply was off topic, that post was intended for my partner, not my child.

You're correct, I won't complain if my child didn't show a gratitude because they're still young and don't understand about money at all. It just probably I would be angry if I've sent them to private school and pay the expensive tuition, but I hear them saying 1 + 1 = 3, 1 + 2 = 5 and so on.

Even though I see most thing in money perspective, but I didn't see child was like investment. What I want is my child married with well off partner.

Are you serious? food is important.

You have to eat enough protein, veggies, and fruits, you can't compare it with cheap food with high carbs.

I don't see it wasting money as long as you not eating in luxury restaurant.

I think I have got your post wrong. I understood it as following: a child is something you spend money on, but get nothing in return; no thank you, no potential profit. Many in this topic see it like this actually. You spend now, but not sure what you get in future. People think that if they spend a lot of money on child now, when child turn 18, he will leave them, forget to support when parents becomes old and retire. Some dont plan children, because they think they can afford expenses (but they never though about cutting expenses on themselves to have a bigger budget for a child).

Economy situations are never permanent one might be struggling now and enjoy in the future economy hardship shouldn't prevent one of not having kids if you can comfortably take care of one kid at the moment you stike with it if it's just 2 kids you keep on with it and gave birth to more when things changes for good, you might regret not having at all because at old age you will need one who will take care of you too sometimes children bring blessings to their family some persons life change when they start having kids.

Not having kids until you are, in other words, well off is a trap. Life is uncertain economy, health and circumstances all can vary in a twitch of an eye. If you are comfortable with one child at present, have it. Waiting until you feel you could do three or four is not a good idea; that much-desired right moment may never happen. Children add responsibility, insight and sometimes blessed surprises to your life. You may be sorry you never had any. Financial planning issues, yes, however in overthinking them you can lose more than a few dollars you can lose a family and life experiences.

Sure enough raising a child is expensive, and as child grows up, expenses increases, but that isnt as expensive as most think. It it was, then only rich people would have kids and we would have a huge disbalance in population and in job sector. Many people cant admit, that they are not ready or dont want to sacrifice free time and cut expenses on themselves, and dedicate all that to a child. Simply saying, people dont want to change.

As someone who is from an underdeveloped country, you can't place the economy as secondary when talking about having kids. It's part of the most important things. In an economy like mine, you have to have different streams of income or a very large income if you're going to have a kid, because the government won't help you in any way. No free education at any level, inflation continuously on the rise, you have to find ways to provide your own electricity and other basic things the government should be providing for you, like water. You also have to consider the security. How safe will that child be? Will he be safe enough to and from school unharmed? each day? If you can't guarantee these things, I don't think you should have a child.

We live in this world to continue to reproduce. You are here thanks to your parents who gave birth to you, and so on. So if you're poor don't have children it's against the laws of nature, because having children is the instinct of every living creature. However, before having children, we must also prepare ourselves better so that our children can grow up well. Perhaps it's more accurate not to avoid having children, but to limit the number of children we have.

Having children is a human choice, and children cannot choose who they are born to, so parents are responsible for caring for and educating them. Parents who neglect this duty are guilty. If you look at the news about what's happening in Japan, it's truly concerning that they are experiencing a low birth rate. Finally, the country is reportedly implementing policies to increase the birth rate. So, in my personal opinion, as long as you're married, continue to create new generations, but don't forget to prepare thoroughly.

There are actually two answers to this question if we consider two different perspectives, and we can even find these two perspectives within a single person. From an economic rationale perspective, having children requires adequate financial preparation. For example, earning above the minimum wage or something similar. But when we talk about love, sometimes the result of a loving relationship with a partner is that we desire children as the fruit of our love. Sometimes we don't use logic in this matter. We have children without considering the financial future. But the amazing thing is that most people are actually motivated to work harder after having children. And after having children, someone can actually become more successful. Perhaps because they feel they have greater responsibilities, they are driven to work harder and produce more.

But in developed countries, most couples avoid having children until their economies are truly ready for them. As a result, some countries, like Japan, are now experiencing a birth rate crisis. This has led the country to implement policies that provide financial support for its citizens who have children, such as child allowances, maternity subsidies, and so on. Developed countries are also beginning to realize that a country can actually go bankrupt not only because of a collapsing economy, but also when it experiences a truly long-term birth rate crisis. A declining native population will only attract more foreign workers, who will ultimately settle there, and the country could eventually become overpopulated with foreigners. And it's not impossible that foreigners will eventually begin to dominate the country's economy.

In life, it turns out to be the other way around. The poor breed like rabbits, while the rich have 1-2 children. As a result, it turns out that the poor strata of the population only multiply, while the rich gradually die out. A similar picture is at the country level. The birth rate in poor countries is very high, and the population is also growing.

So, for some reason, all these people forgot to ask your opinion. :)

From an economic point of view, in the modern world it is not profitable to have children (we should not forget that children are not at all guided by the financial component). Because children require "investment" of resources in them and these investments will almost never return to you. That is, you could, roughly speaking, go on vacation to the Maldives instead of paying for your son's education in college.

Up to 20 years (a conventional figure) children need to be provided for and resources invested in them, so that later, they will move to live and work separately, but at the same time, the resources "invested" in them will not return to you (they will pass on to the next generations). If you evaluate from a selfish point of view, then this is extremely unprofitable. :)

If we are talking about the economic component (abstracting from the rest), then my opinion is the following.

Countries that has qol, they can have kids, and they should deffo implement policies so generations continue. However, in countries like where I come from, qol is poor, so I don't want anybody to this shitshow.

We know that once we have kids, it's a different level as a new parent where it's our obligation to take care of and raise and teach our children correctly according to what we know is right.

And this responsibility is not easy to do especially if we are just employees and not business owners. That's why some people are limiting themselves to having a child or children, unlike others who don't care if the woman gets pregnant.

Are you including marriage before kids or kids without marriage, is that what you mean?

It's never a good thing to include kid into your world when you are not ready to take any responsibility, I know everyone love to have kids which is a good thing but not in a dry home.

It's only irresponsible men would love to have kids without proper training and dump their kid somewhere else while the parents leave elsewhere also. Don't bring kid when you are not ready.

Many had children in difficult situations, faced hardships, limitations, and even scarcity at times, but they overcame them. It's not the rule, I know, but if you wait for a favorable situation or a perfect moment, the right time, to have children, you'll never have one. I have three, and it wasn't easy. I often skipped meals so they could eat, and I can say with absolute certainty that I don't regret it for a moment. Today, the situation is a little better, despite the country I live in not doing very well economically and everything being much more expensive.

If you think about it this way, it doesn't just depend on you. If the country's economy is bad, your money won't mean much...

Good point, different places and different types of people have their own opinions regarding to this matter, if you value the possibility of what your future generation might be judging with how you see your country's economy it will affects your thinking about raising your own kids, though like what I have mentioned the perspectives depends from how a single person thinks about it just needed to consider all the factors that may affects the decision that you will take.

There's no universe in which you'd monetarily profit from having a child even if your government heavily subsidizes families. I hope money was not your only consideration.

That story really shows what parenthood can demand, skipping meals so your kids eat is a kind of love that stays with you, and not regretting it says a lot about your priorities and strength.

National economy matters a lot because inflation and low wages reduce what money can buy, but small practical moves can still help, make a tiny emergency fund even if it’s slow, cut avoidable costs, buy staples in bulk when possible, look for school aid or community programs, and try to grow income through skills or side work that fits your schedule. Keep believing in the tradeoffs you made, they shape your kids and your future, and if you want we can make a simple weekly budget or list small steps to improve things without big risk, say which area you’d like to focus on and we’ll start.

Even if the quality of life in your country is not good, it does not mean that your children will not have a better life because it depends on your financial resources.
I am also from a 3rd world country and my country's economy is not as good as many other countries. Not to brag but our life is a little better because the financial situation is not so bad.

Having children should be a personal decision as it involves many factors such as maintaining the family lineage, the couple's desire for children to be a bond and make family life happier. Or they can also be the motivation for us to try harder in life...

I have 2 kids and I have to admit my life has gotten a little busier since having them. But when we had children, our family became happier, more fulfilled and more connected. So as an experienced person, I encourage having children but it needs to be planned and within financial means.

I came late to this discussion  :D, now if someone does not want to have children then he should not get married. You don't need to be rich to raise children. Many poor people also raised children. Now you can say you don't need financial help from children in old age, but I will need care in old age. Who will take care of me if I get sick in old age? Now from an economic point of view my opinion is that it is necessary to have children under any circumstances. Children are God's blessings, however, I thank God because I am going to be a father for the first time.

Ultimately, looking at what has happened over the past few pages, it seems that this is just a debate about childfree and those who believe in having children, wrapped up in religious nuances and economic conditions as reasons.

Regardless, I don't think there is any guarantee that having children or being childfree will make someone rich, because in the end, it all starts with the individual. There is no guarantee that choosing to be childfree will automatically make someone rich because they don't have children to support. Lifestyle, good financial management, and knowing what priorities to focus on for economic development are the factors that can lead to wealth, not whether one is childfree or not. In fact, many people who have children today can become billionaires, while on the other hand, there are also many childfree people who are in the same situation (billionaires) or, conversely, suffer more than those who have children.

Economics should be the broader picture not the idea of skipping all those pesky bills for kids and using it on a holiday instead.  That much is obvious, kids are expensive but its not for profit as ultimately its impossible to be as productive as raising a child; in majority its a gift to the country and their future revenues.
 In poor countries the families may be large as children are the only wealth they have and they keep them close as valuable future parts of a business or farm, etc.

Its not fake or mistaken, people are valuable and productive and impossible to replicate with a machine even with modern technology nothing will ever grow as much or represent as much potential as a human being in all they can do and learn.
   This dynamic ties into the economics of a nation and so low population or declining working populations brings real problems and even China has this ongoing problem to overcome after restricting kids as if a costly commodity.

Raising kids goes far beyond being a personal responsibility it is directly tied to the stability and progress of a nation while many see children mainly as expenses the reality is they are future contributors to the workforce the economy and society as a whole every new generation carries the potential to sustain industries drive innovation and keep systems running when birth rates fall the long term effects are felt in reduced productivity and strained social support systems.

In poorer regions large families are often viewed as wealth children contribute to farming household labor or family businesses and that secures survival this perspective values children not only emotionally but economically as future support in contrast wealthier nations often focus on the immediate costs of raising children and overlook the broader benefits leading to smaller families and eventually population decline.

Machines and artificial intelligence can take over repetitive tasks but no technology can fully replicate human creativity adaptability and capacity to solve complex problems societies with declining young populations eventually face shortages of workers and rising burdens from aging citizens examples can already be seen in nations like japan and china where shrinking populations pose serious economic challenges. Economics at its core is about people when children are treated primarily as burdens instead of investments in the future the foundation of growth weakens prioritizing strong balanced populations ensures sustainable development for generations.

I believe that the decision about having children should not be based solely on money. Yes, finances are important for comfort and opportunities, but they do not define the meaning of parenthood. Children are not just expenses; they bring the experience of unconditional love, responsibility, and shared growth.
What really matters is understanding your own readiness to raise, support, and dedicate your time to a small human being. For some, this is the meaning of life, while for others, it can be a burden.

From a pure "economy perspective" there is going to be some magic number of sustainability required for a country, where younger generations can sustain and support the oldest generation into retirement - depending on how state pensions are structured or whether private pensions are sufficient. In many developed countries this number is below the ideal replenishment rate, but there is a lot of tech these days that might mean we don't require so many people in future. The real focus needs to be on proper wealth distribution and making sure a handful of people don't consistently consolidate wealth in just a small number of families. There's nothing wrong with capitalism but it does need to be dynamically and fairly regulated, with the understanding that businesses are always trying to fight back against that effort.

What you said is absolutely right, determining the number of children you want should be adjusted to your abilities and income. In this way, parents can provide adequate attention, education and basic needs for each child. Indeed, children bring the door to fortune from various unexpected directions. The presence of children can also motivate parents to work harder and try to earn a living for the future of their children and their small family.

Is the benchmark for wealth and a prosperous life not having children? If this paradigm is true, then humans would have become extinct long ago. The choice is yours do you want to die leaving behind a lot of wealth that will be taken by others, confiscated by the government, given to institutions, or to your descendants?

Economic perspectives do not always align with basic physics and mathematics. If the current mindset is that “those who are established should not have kids” then be grateful to your parents for not believing in that principle, because if they had, you wouldn't have been born, right?  ;D

I don't have much, and I really don't care where my possessions go after my death.


I have said it before in this thread, I would be perfectly fine had I not come to exist.

PS: I read back what I write, and I am sounding insanely pessimist, do not become like me.

Most people, when they get married, want to have children immediately, and their in-laws and daughters-in-law also hope to have children soon. Some tribes and cultures believe that children are a blessing and a source of blessings. However, some delay having children because one of them is not ready to have children, perhaps more so on the part of the woman.
As parents, even though their financial situation is limited, it is their duty to both be able to meet their needs, including those of their children. Expenses will feel greater when we have a child, but believe me, children do open the door to blessings.

well said dear, children are seen as blessing from God so many people have kids without planning for them,their just have kids with the mindset of God being the provider forgetting that their are the instruments God will use to provide for them.personaly,the society where we currently finds our self people don't care if their have money or not before giving birth.my opinion on this issue of having kids,the government should put roles and regulations to bound people from having too many children.
   The middle class families should not have more than 2 kids,the rich should not have more than 4.this well help in improving the leaving condition of everyone in families.

This aspect needs a special kind of wisdom to operate, cause following the word go into the world and multiply it didn't say otherwise that you should have kids everywhere unplanned. So all of this are planned and that's why two people come together with interest and understanding and bear forth offspring, that's to say they are ready mentally, financially and otherwise.

Actually, if I want to speak the truth then I say that raising kids nowadays involves a lot of money because raising kids is not just about food, clothing, and shelter there are many other expenses too. When a kid is raised, it has a big responsibility and expenses. But if we think that when a person grows up, he will focus only on making money, then one day he will be able to lead a very boring life. If he has a wife and kid, I mean family then he will work hard for them. And in this way he will helpful for the economoy. So, from that perspective, I believe having children is a good thing but yes, of course, it comes with a lot of expenses nowadays.

And we often see situation when middle class or lower families have more than two children, when rich families have one child that is spoiled. I often see families that live in country side, and have 3-6 children. That is imo one of most complicated scenarios. Those families are very dependable from their crops, weather, lots of other factors. People who live in cities have much easier lives than them. Nevertheless I have never seen those people unhappy or complaining, or saying that wish they have less children.

Open spaces, greenery as in countryside are good for us (or for any living being for that matter), I also feel better at my parents farm than in the society I live in, which is surrounded by buildings everywhere (i.e, concrete jungle).

Simple life as it is, those who are use to live like that are the people who are contented with their lives they are okay having children who completed their lives, though there are still people who don't like that kind of set up and still aiming to have a much better life and still aiming to experienced a life in the city, different people always have different perceptions and opinions.

I believe that it is necessary to have children at least out of respect for your parents, who once made the decision for us to be born into this world, and they went through many hard days and sleepless nights so that we became who we are.
And I believe that we should be grateful to them for this, and besides, does a life lived only for yourself make sense?
What can you leave behind after such a life?
I am not forcing anyone or calling for anything. This is simply my opinion.

My point of view is that everyone should not go for more then 2 kids regardless of his financial status. The more kids you have, more attention they need and it will be difficult for parents to give adequate time to every child. The spoiled kids we see are the one who are not given due attention by their parents.

I do agree that if your finances are not good then parents will face issue in upbringing of their kids. That's why it's important to consult family planning doctor in advance.

This is a very difficult question because we want to have children while we are young and still have the energy to raise and nurture them. Even if we don’t have money when we are young, we can earn it later when we have a good job and career growth. You can have children when you are already financially secure and older, but I believe that children should have young parents, although this is my opinion and may differ from yours.

My honest opinion goes far beyond mere economics, I personally consider life a useless affair. I am not grateful to my parents for their entertainment session which led to me, and to take care of me which they ought to do after creating me.

I like nature, I like to take care of things in it, but put another body in this show, nope! What will I leave behind? Nothing and that's best thing I can do.

This is the philosophy of modern youth. Until a person gets on his feet completely, acquires a profession, a good income, and a name in the end, and only after that, young people decide to "have" a child. The word "have" itself sounds quite offensive to the future person, as if people want to have a cat or a dog. I would call the topic differently, changing it to the word "give birth." Although you know, while you are building your successful life, the fertility of women and the quality of sperm in men are becoming less and less every year. You need to think about the fact that, having missed the most convenient childbearing age, many will spend their money saved for a future good life on treatment to give birth to a now desired and long-awaited child.

It's a different feeling to have a child; it's wonderful to be a father. This is especially true if you're a responsible parent or father. Though there are some people who really want
to have a family, there are also others who don't want children and are happy to grow old without a spouse or kids.

Because of this, they just treat their nieces and nephews like their own children. However, it's still up to us if we want to or not.
It just depends on each person's choice.

That thinking is too extreme, although we might consider it valid for someone with a deep sense of responsibility.

However, we need to simplify it: we shouldn't have children if we haven't been able to prepare them for their well-being, from conception to adulthood and independence. This must be done with the proper consideration of a visionary. I know people with such thinking are very concerned about their children because they don't want to bring up their children in hardship, especially if they can't provide a decent life. Therefore, we must be stronger in improving our lives so that when we do have children, we can provide them with a decent and happy life.

In other words, it shouldn't be like when we were children.

That term In the bible "multiply" wasn't even talking about bringing forth offsprings alone, a lot of people are streamlining what it means to only reproduction...it actually means that we should be productive in every aspect of life both financially and materially...just like you said, two people shouldn't come together just to reproduce without proper planning because at the end it would lead to frustration

It only sounds that life in countryside is simple, but IRL its far more difficult than life in concrete jungle. From parenting point of view, in concrete jungle we have everything in few taps on screen away. Everything you need and want can be delivered. That also makes life more expensive, that scared people from having children. Those who did not have children, think that a lot of expenses on a child are instant, when a lot of things a child dont need at once or dont need at all. Food it the main expense, the rest can be replaced, or purchased used for example.

I think the problem is not having or not having kids. Kids are the most innocent creatures in fact it's a gift from God to us. The problem is not having enough resources to take care of them because it's very unfair if you are not able to provide them with the basic needs of life. If you have enough resources and you think you are on the stage where it is easy for you to raise a kid in a well organized way then it's too good. But the things got disturbed when you are also living with the very limited options and then the responsibility of kids will disturb you the more in fact it will cause the problems for the kids as well. I think it's the type of decision in which you need to pay enough attention to decide what to do.

People need a good mentality, financial and knowledge before they want to have kids.

This is why when we're still single, make sure we try to get a good job, improve our mentality and knowledge, because when we're already become dad, we have to provide our family, can become a good husband and good father, then teach the kids with our knowledge.

These thing three are bare minimum before someone want to have a kids, I would want to add one more: make sure you've finished your single life. What I mean, if you still want to have fun, fuck many women, get drunk, and other "bad lifestyle", stay single until you're ready to be a husband and a dad.

If this is the mindset of everyone, hence overpopulation will be avoided. But unfortunately, those who have no stable source of income are definitely those who dare to have multiple kids when they can’t even send their kids to good schools and receive quality education. However, we have no control of others life’s decisions and perspectives, but as per my personal point of view, raising a child is good and it’s something that God wants us to do but at least we should also be responsible guardians and prepare their good future and meaningful life.

Go multiply doesn't also mean people should start producing children without having an income or a job at hand. Go and multiply is only used for those who are prepared to go into marriage,  and being prepared for marriage doesn't guarantee one must give birth to many children but only the ones that you can cater for. When it comes to child bearing, you need to be very sensitive that no one is coming to help you, which only you have the responsibility to provide  for the children.

Parents should be prepared to take absolute care of their children before intending to start making baby it is their responsibility to protect and provide for their kids so before two adults comes together to become husband and wife they should have something that generates income before child bearing.

You know some persons are funny to the extent that they fail to understand that what makes you a complete parents is the ability to provide for the family, whats the need of multiplying problems for yourself when you can't solve the problems, kids are gift from God we know that but it becomes inadequate decision to have many kid when cant be able to take good care of them, the holy book saying go into the world and multiply, is there a anywhere it says, go into the world and multiply without being able to take care of the offsprings, people are just good at saying things that was said but at the same time being unable to get the full knowledge and information such saying carries.

Talking about capacity to raise children, what is the total amount required to take good care of children in countries with bad economy especially for African countries that 80 percent of their citizens hardly had 2 square meals on daily basis. Children are blessing from god that at times even open doors for parents once they come into their home, waiting for financial stability because having children what if it comes when you are 60 or it never even come to reality does that means you won't have children when we all know they are the joy of every man.

Well, planning and thorough preparation are essential for anyone who is truly ready to have children. Having children isn't just about financial responsibility, like providing for them by providing them with sufficient nutritious food and meeting all their growth needs. It's also about preparing how to raise them so they become well-rounded individuals. So, preparation isn't just about finances, but also about knowledge and insight, and how to treat them well.

However, sometimes readiness comes when they enter our lives. And sometimes the drive to work harder comes when we have children. And sometimes, even though we're financially ready, we can't have children. So, I prefer things to flow naturally. Preparation is essential. But we can't determine when we'll be ready or not. If we want children, just go for it and don't worry too much about things that are still uncertain.

Same and I believe that's every human opinion, every human in their right sense of mind would not want to give birth to children when they are not yet financially stable true but in a situation, where one is getting older and not that financial stable, one must have children to continue his or her linage. That's why we have family planning, both couples come together to decide how many children to give birth to if there is no enough finance. Because bringing kids into this world is a lot of expenses let aside education from the upbringing you spend up till when the child is grown enough to provide for his or herself but that's In the urban areas tho, In the rural areas you hear about just one person having up to 6-7 children without having any finances, which is very very bad. So yes having finance before producing children is a good one also because bringing a child to this world comes with so much responsibilities, both physically, emotionally and financially, parenting is not just all about love and care it's also involves stability. Children deserve attention, care, love, proper upbringing, good education and all this involves proper planning it just all about hope, or all about saying tomorrow go better.

It's not possible to prepare for knowledge, insight and how to grow your child if you're not financially good in the first place.

So, someone who want to have kids and they're not rich in the first place will high likely won't be a successful Dad like the criteria you mentioned above. In order to make money, people have to sacrifice time, effort and mental, they have no time to learn how to be Dad and taught their child.

I have no problem for people who set such criteria, as long as they fulfill what they said, not just talking.

It becomes a big problem to a man that didn't plan well on how many kids his income can carter for till they grow up. Those are the important things that a responsible man should put into consideration before giving birth to the number of kids he want. When you give birth to more than the number of children that your financial strength can contain, you have brought more problem to the society because the society will also suffer for it.

It is sad because most people who are having kids, and especially people who are having many kids, don't have any of what you just said.

Neither this sadly, the cheating and divorce rates are through the roof. It is clear that something is very wrong with marriages. Without children even many would fall apart, but it is not good that children are being used to save marriages. It is unfair to them.

There is no fixed amount for child raising because even if someone has 10 million of my currency on there account there is a high probability of not having any single one left before the child will even get to higher institutions in schooling so actually instead of someone to ask of the money that should be needed they should instead get a stable source whether working or self employed because that is what can guarantee and last till they saw there children from all levels in education, some persons do not see what is ahead of them but instead they only see what the material things can buy for them at the time.

You are going to spend 10 million dollars in 18 years of your life? Tell me how many people in the world have and spend this amount of money in 18 years? 1%?  ::) People avoid private laboratory testing for their children when tests are $100-$500 and my man talks about spending $500k yearly.  :D

Oh wow! Did you mean that for real? That 80% of Africans hardly afford 2 meals a day?

Is it really that bad in Africa? I bet Africans still must be savages, living in house made of mold and don’t know what a sky scrapper is you know, don’t have access to some of the best of technologies and still rides horses!

We say these things and when it’s Africa, it seems true, easy to accept but, mind knowing the land, the people and appreciate its culture.

Africans still get to live rich lives!

---

When it comes to raising a child, it’s no easy mile and you don’t get to relax it on finances alone. Yes, finance plays a huge role to this but, you get to teach morals and character too. I don’t advocate having way too many children if you haven’t gotten a stable source of income. You need it, you don’t get to put them kids through the harsh realities of your youths, you owe it to them to make it better. Many parents sacrifice their happiness for their kids as it should be but, it wouldn’t be so hard or get to that should you make proper planning and investments when you are a youth.

Yes some countries especially Nigeria is still living in the 15th centuries in terms of development but there leaders go about fabricating fack stories about the level of development in the country just to convince the world that they are working in the country, all are  fallacies just to justify there level of corrupt activities when the country have been heavily blessed by god in mineral resources of all kind. The leaders all believe in self wealth, embezzlement of public funds and never consider there subjects wellbeing at any time, if i may ask why do there leaders prefer going for medical treatment outside the country when they have hospitals.
Not that there are no rich people over there but when above 60 percent of citizens are living below average life it means the citizens are suffering and affording some good schools become an issue.

I don't like the opinion of OP because of we have more child then they will earn and father will be rich and there should be no negative idea about child because happiness is related to the child and that has great importance in life . Many people are doing jobs and they have no child and they are not happy with their life . There should be person who will continue the family, otherwise family will be cut off their forefathers streak . Money is important in life but after marriage and child your income will increase and you will be more happy in life .OP has no awareness of life because I think he is immature at that time and after few years he will be mature and he will see the importance of child .

It’s really not as black and white as many people outside the continent imagine africa is not a single story of poverty or savagery there are big modern cities with skyscrapers highways tech hubs and wealthy people alongside villages where life is still very tough it’s a land of contrast where some nations are developing fast while others are struggling with corruption bad leadership and lack of infrastructure so when people generalize africa as backward it ignores the reality that it is both rich in culture and resources but also facing deep social and economic challenges.

Raising children in such environments becomes even harder because parents have to balance financial strain with teaching values and morals many sacrifice everything to give their kids a chance at a better life but it’s also true that poor planning and having more children than one can support makes the struggle heavier leadership failures worsen the situation because resources that should be used for schools hospitals and jobs often end up in the pockets of a few until corruption is reduced and opportunities are spread fairly many ordinary africans will keep fighting to survive on little even though the land itself is rich enough to sustain much more.

A man is not qualified to marry when he cannot support himself. If he cannot earn his own income, then how will he feed his wife after getting married and how will he establish himself because he himself is an incompetent person. How can he have children if he is not able to earn enough to feed his wife? There is no question of having children here.

The earlier African youths  consciously identify bad governance as the primary cause of backwardness and high poverty rate and try finding the suitable means of revamping the leadership structure, the same topic will continue coming up on daily basis. How can we live in a country where political leaders without vision becomes our most preferred option when it comes to electing political representatives all because of there complete willingness in offering bribes in exchange of the citizens right of selecting there leaders when we all know it will indirectly affect us tomorrow.
Until the wrong selection method is stopped, children will not stop suffering due to lack of jobs to parents and poor attention as a result of too much involvement of parents just to provide for there education and so on

Yea, I have seen mentality before, and I am not fan of it. You are creating child for your own selfish pursuit.


Fair enough, and I'll do you one better — many people who have children are unhappy.


Yeah, bloodline one, I have seen that too, not fan of it either. Let my bloodline vanish, not a bother.


After marriage and child, your expenses increase, if you are not earning enough, you will be miserable.


I know what I am talking about, you can take it as you may.

It is true, and the main reason is that they had children for bad reasons. Many do it because that is what you are supposed to do in terms of expectations from society around you. Others do it to try to repair their bad marriage or empty lives by having children and so on.

It is a dumb argument as most bloodlines are trash, and many even have a lot of diseases. Do the world a favor and let it die out.

This statement does not always work. I have personally seen that those whose parents are very financially well-off do not understand the reality well and the success rate of such people is very low. Because they have never seen poverty since childhood and have grown up with luxury which never makes them face reality. But a child of a poor family lives with various struggles from childhood and constantly faces reality due to which he has the desire to grow up and do something good from childhood due to which his career is very good. However, the children of the poor get bored while fighting with reality and start blaming their parents for their condition, so your statement cannot be called wrong too.

For those children born in well-off family, reality is that they are well-off, and wdym their success rate is low? Children who are who are born in well-off families do mostly come to do well in life while those born in poor families, there are only few exceptions who come out from the poor conditions they were born in.


Wow! People's infatuation with glorifying suffering.


...And they blame rightfully.

If a child comes into the family after the husband and wife have been supporting each other, then of course the size of the family becomes larger and the amount of expenses becomes much higher than before. In this case, before having a child, the husband and wife must take some steps as a source of income so that there is enough opportunity to build a future for the child after its birth. If it is not possible to fulfill their responsibilities properly after having a child, then it is wise not to have a child.

Basically there are no retirement moment for man because for their life the man should have ability to feed their family even when they were retire the man should be can earn money to buy family daily needs and having children is the dreaming of some people and the reason why the people want that because they want in the old age those childrens can take care of them but sometimes the parents forget that to raised the children it took a lot of effords and money especially for the increasingly expensive cost of education and these situations too makes some of my friends have decide to childless for their entire life

Financial stability is one of the most important factors when considering starting a family without a reliable income or savings any unexpected event like medical emergencies job loss or even sudden economic changes can create pressure that makes raising children extremely difficult it’s not just about providing food or shelter but also education healthcare and opportunities for growth without preparation parents and children can both suffer long term consequences.Emotional readiness is just as critical raising kids takes constant attention patience and energy parents who are struggling to support themselves financially often cannot meet these needs which can affect children’s development education and overall well being it’s not just about wanting children but being able to give them a safe and supportive environment.

Society often glorifies parenthood as an achievement but responsible parenting is about timing planning and stability choosing to stay childless or delaying parenthood can be a conscious and smart decision it allows individuals to focus on personal growth career stability and building a foundation that can support a family in the future when the time is right children can then be raised in an environment that nurtures them properly and ensures they have the best possible start in life.

To have children or not is an absolutely individual desire of any couple of young people who should come to the point of becoming economically independent and at the same time fully completed individuals who can easily overcome life's difficult tasks, and only then should they have children. If, of course, they want it.

I agree with you because critically looking at society and the failure of the collapse of moral and even the increase in criminality in the world today it's not unconnected to the failure of parents who supposed not to give birth at the first place due to their economic situation, because there is no way a man or woman who has not been able to take care of one self to give birth to children's that they can't take care of.


Alot of criminal who has become a problem to society is as a result of frustration because the people who have birth to them were not fit to take care of their parental duties.

We should realize as well that the increased criminality rate can be blamed to the fact that the economy has become tougher.

Rent taking up big chunk of our salary is already a concern. People back then can raise kids without worrying about making ends meet, They can even buy house in their early 30s.

Nowadays I'm not even sure people can buy house in their 50s. The decrease in birth rate in most of developed nations aren't some rocket science.

For me, it depends on each couple's thoughts and desires. There is no exact answer because our thoughts, circumstances and living environments are not the same.

But I want to ask you and those who think it is necessary to be financially stable before having children one thing. Do you know when you will improve your financial situation and become well off? Does it take you 5 years, 10 years or 50 years to do it? And what will you do and what plans do you have if you don't improve your financial situation? Will you never have children?

To the best of my knowledge it's of a great importance for one to have kids.

In as much as you are a man on this earth.

Having kids is one of the most important things that brought us to this earth which everyone else owes himself that obligation.
An with the help of God almighty which blesses marriage I don't think anyone can pass through much difficulties in raising their kids.

That's why you see on an average man who's handwork in a bricklayer will raise a child today to be a doctor, lawyer's and teacher's and so on.it all depends on the parents in child bringing up.

It doesn't matter what you do for a living to beer kid's.

There's a vision of the Bible that says go yeah to the world and multiply.
So this chapter knows that everyone most certainly beer kids.

So using your income as an option to beer kids is not a good omen in this universe.

But what i will suggest is that one should know the level of child bearing when you already know how you get your source of survival.

With this every one will have to train his or her child in any condition.

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There's no part of the world today you won't find a child who's a problem to his parents.

This is not just all about up bringing of a child as per financial system of the man's income.

There are those who's parents have probably provided everything else they want yet they will still not be useful them.

In most cases it's also the financial aspect of the man who is the head that's the reason too.

But looking at it biblical facts about it.every man is obliged to bear kids irrespective of your financial status.
The fact is that you most certainly knows what is your financial strength in time's of giving birth.

Then given your the best education ever is not all that's required of you.

You most certainly play that parental rights to get your children to the limelight.

Because you might have what ever it takes for taking care of them all at the end you end up raising criminals to the society.

This is why everyone is expected to play part in their home bringing of a child it's not all about having the money or quality education ever.

Lol, I come from a third world, and I have seen kids in dire state. Also, lord Almighty blesses anyone with a kid who can fuck so it's not that deep.


Raise kids so they can be useful to you!? Fuck outta here.


You should call it more like biblical garbage.


Financial security and quality education play utmost importance in child's well being and how it's going to turn out as an adult.

What does the global economic crisis have to do with it? Have you ever heard of such a thing as child-free? Many famous people openly stated that they did not want children, and this was decades before the economic crisis. And the very concept of child-free appeared back in the seventies.

I understand what you mean, but without the jokes, no one knows how your children will treat their parents when they get old.
Imagine, you invest a lot of money and time, emotions in your child, and in the end he (or she) becomes a bad person and for some reason stops communicating with you. There's no guarantee that you won't die alone just because you once had a baby.

I get your point, but you have to consider the cultural, religion and regional factor too! I have heard, that in the western countries or mostly in the USA or similar,  children (adult) needs to take appointment to visit their parents, or the vise versa! I have also seen many videos escalating in the social media where childrens or the parents sues each others for money, that they lives separately! To be honest, we don't have this kind of mentality or how do i put it 'cultural thing" here or very rarely! I would never consider raising my children as any sort of investments! Where I'm from parents and children lives under the same roof! Parents raises their children, and later when they old up, children takes care of them. This is a typical scenario in most of the household here (asian)! We are raised that way, our religion tells us to take care of our parents when they get old! I hope u understand what I'm trying to tell here!

But again, yes you are correct! No place is exceptions, there always will be some bad seeds! Not all our fingers are of same size, that also applies for our children! So yes, it isn't anything uncommon. We also seen many cases of bad children abandoning their parents! As for my own family, we don't have anything like that! All of us are loved, respected and taken care of! ;)

Having children as an investment is stupid. You have children because you don't want to be alone. You want someone to talk to when you're old.
The truth is we eventually die, but there's a way to leave something behind. We leave a part of ourselves in our children. They keep all the memories and remember all the things that we taught them.

99% of children will cost you more to raise than they can ever give you back, simply because that's how time works. If you have a kid in your 30s, by the time he or she becomes financially stable you'll be in your 60s. How many years will you have in which you can really enjoy life, even with a lot of money? 10? Are you going to leave your kids with the thought that you were a burden to them in your last years?

I'd like them to enjoy life, do all the things that I wasn't able to do and not worry about me. I'll make sure I have enough money to take care of myself when I'm 60+ and let my kids start their families and have fun.

From the unset there are people who have always valued child-free and I have one around me currently who decided not to have kids not because he is financially not capable or potentially not capable in terms of biology but then, as a result of experience and other stuffs has ended up to be child-free, traced back to his root found out that some of the family traits is few individuals usually decides to be child free and it has been for so long hence I agree with you that the concept of child-free is dated back in the early days.

Or imagine pouring out your emotions into a male child and investing in him and later in the nearest future as one who succeds your legacy decided to transfer gender leaving you devastated in thoughts, it's some of the recent occasions I've been reading in articles

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Saw the other thread and decided instead of helping op see his thread as relevance came back to the root thread. .

That's a poor man's mentality, the ones that failed in using their useful age to seize opportunities or create one and make a fortune so they feel they'll just birth children and leave the responsibilities of generating wealth in future for their kids, thinking about it is kind of insane cause they forget that it the responsibility to parents to give kids proper upbringing and direct them through the path that would lead them to opportunities that would bring good fortune, forgetting that they'll still need to give their kids basic education that would help them acquire wealth in future. It's even better to be child free than have such mentality.

The modern slavery system will always maintain economic inequality to function; the lower classes will always serve those one level above them. The upper classes may one day play the role of the lower classes. If you think people in developed countries are several levels more prosperous than you, you're wrong (https://www.dw.com/en/japan-sees-record-drop-in-population-in-2024/a-73562758). Perhaps it's better to distinguish between the poor and the foolish who worry about raising and educating children. Even if those considered "poor" today decided to "not have children," would the decline end? On the other hand, I have a message: have children, or your country will one day be taken over by an overpopulated poor nation.

I think you are a very selfish person that does not want to change anything in your life. I bet you also wont get married (get married is expensive?), because that is unprofitable, second half can take half of what you had and you will have to spend money on second half until you die.

People dont bring children because they want to profit from it and not only to have someone to talk when they get old. Consider that children are emotions and great memories, what you will remember and replay in your head once you get old. Those memories will allow you virtually to go into past and live moments of your youth once again.

I have learned that if a child distances oneself from parents after becoming an adult, there must be some fault on parents part. I have read a good amount of stuff on narcissism, it's wild what such parents do to their own children.


Parents should raise children knowing they are individuals with their own identity, and they can do as they please with their life.


That's nice of you, appreciate that.

You're right maybe the culture I belong does not permit such and that must have affected my thoughts towards some things, it's good as everyone is entitled to his identity but then regardless of that disappointing the parents who sacrificed to bring up with whatever choice you make is some how a very dumb decision one can make. yet it's also on the part of the parent to stop the mentality of children being there retirement plan or investment that has to bring returns instead see it as a volunteer service they provide for family sake.

I am not fan of word, 'sacrifice', that's so often used because children do not ask to be born here — if you decide to bring them into this word, you must give them best you can and without taking iota of credit for the same, and neither do children owe anything to their parents for giving them existence that is literally a lifetime of maintenance (sure, some people enjoy doing this maintenance, it's different thing) and eventual death.

I feel like you misunderstood my post.

Why am I selfish? Is it because I don't recommend having children in hope that they will support you financially? Is it because I know for a fact that raising a child will cost you more than the child will ever be able to give you back before you die? That's unless you raise another Justin Bieber or some other teen star.

Yes getting married can be expensive, but I am married and have children. I won't ask them to support me financially though. They are going to have their own lives to look forward to, hopefully with no debt and no parents asking for handouts. Some people forget that it was their decision to raise children, therefore they as parents are responsible for their well-being, financial stability and all other things.

I understand your perspective of live and child upbringing but however, my cultur beloef system is somehow outdated hence I seem to be in the old days and perceived child upbringing as a sole duty which requires a lot of putting down oneself in other to put the kids first and give them a better life but however, in today's world it's our responsibility to take care of children and at the end of they decide to do that in return it's considered noble since it's perceived they do not owe no one nothing for being their kids.

I agree with the statement that parenting can be unfair to the child because of lack of preparedness whether financially or emotionally. Children who grow up without a way to follow tend to encounter difficulty in avoiding poverty cycles, this has been the case across time and geography. It does not imply that people must be rich to have children but planning, education, and mentoring help.

When one is not prepared to give that, then it is a good decision to remain child free. The moral of the storey is that parenting has more to do with giving birth to children and less about preparing them to actual opportunities.

You're right having kids does not necessarily mean that you must be rich before you can meet up the requirements, even though some people may be thinking that before giving birth that One must be Rich but that's not the fact. Moreover I have seen some rich people not taking good care of thier kids I mean in terms of discipline while some of this Rich men can't even enroll their kids in a more decent school but most of this people that claims to be poor can even do better than this rich people, sometimes I still keep wondering how most people define Rich. For me being rich is when You're feeding very well paying your bills by your own self without asking any body for help, even if you don't live in a well furnished apartment or building but so long as you are able to provide all your needs you're rich.

In most countries in the world filled with traditional societies, parents have no limits to treat their children in anyway they think it's right. Some of them think that humiliation, violence, are legit treaties with their children. I love in Islamic culture society and the Islam gave a lot of rules for children to well tteat their parents, but in the opposite there are nothing to garantee the good care. In some holy texts, the prophet advised fathers to hit his children who refuse to pray starting from the age of 10. We today in 21th century living in modern societies should produce strict laws to prevent parents from abusing their powers to manipulate the willings of their children to be independant, including forcing them to satisfy all their needs and only give birth to children he can take care of.

Now I feel that I have really misunderstood your post...Sorry

I thought that you dont recommend to have children, because 1) amount you spend on raising a child will never pay off and money can be spent more wise 2) instead of spending money on a child or raising a child, you would better spend it on yourself.

Wrong understanding was formed due to posts here, where poster say that children are expensive, and I am sure that those poster will buy or have latest mobiles, fancy cars and other expensive stuff. Such people already plan how they will buy something new, expensive, on a credit, but dont feel like they are going to have children, because raising them is costly.

I like your comment, it's wild to me how much some people are brainwashed by their religions/cultures, you can see some comments in this thread too, I must add, I am no exception to this, but existence of Internet has kept me somewhat open minded.

In eastern societies, and almost in all third tier world countries, we suffered from family agression in a way or another. Couples get marry to have children, this is the main reason. Because without children the male has the right to divorce or to marry up to four women in islamic societies (except Tunisia). And they give born to children for two main reasons; one is to help for labor work (agriculture and construction) in addition to the security role. Two is as a part of their retirement plan, as children are required to take care of their parents when they will become older until their last moments. Even if this looks normal and logic, but it limits a lot of someone capabilities and ambitions to live independant to his family. In our societies, it's shameful for somebody to leave family home and move to another city. Girls are in much worse condition than boys, they can't chose but to live with their families brutalities from the house of her father to the house of her husband.

Yes, my family too was extremely toxic for my mental health, I am glad for crypto which allowed me to move away from them. Never been more happier.


Such parents destroy children's lives, I pity children of such people.


Mine too but it's the only way. I advise people to be self-sufficient, independent, and RUN! You'll be glad you did.


Yes, I do understand that situation that very well, I am male but yes I do understand what you talking about.

I believed what you said 100% and it felt so good that I compared it to some of the lives around me and it was 100% correct. A responsible parent and a wealthy parent are never the same. Many parents may have a lot of money but may completely neglect their parental responsibilities. However, there are some parents who do not have money but are the best at fulfilling their parental responsibilities. There is a poor parent in my neighborhood who works as a daily wage laborer and has to run their family with the income they earn every day with great difficulty. But it is a matter of great joy that those very poor parents have educated their children and made them pass BCS. Whereas there are hundreds of such rich parents in the society who fail to fulfill their responsibilities towards their children. A parent's good mental attitude, not their money, is the best thing for their child in any situation. It's not that having money makes you a good parent; to be a good parent, you have to have a responsible mental attitude.

funny typo...
It didn't happen automatically, right? You're talking about it like your boss is like, "Hey, bakasabo has a baby... I'll raise his salary several times." You've probably started working more and the stress level in your life has increased, right? Can you expand your thought?

Make sense, people mostly said child are blessing etc, but it's because they're living with higher pressure.

However I also see people get more money because they have child, it's because they're selling sad stories. Many of them use their child to scam people, I have see a content creator that show they're living like a broke people, but they already have 100K followers and get endorsement/donations, the funny thing all of their contents are still same.

Which make me understand, they're not broke, but they either live like a broke people or use their child as a tool.

You cannot believe in God and then start giving birth to children when you are not financially stable. No you don't
Yes the Bible said "go forth and multiply" but do not forget the same book stated that "whoever will not work, let him not eat" which means you should be ready to work even if or when you believe in God. God isn't just coming to feed this children when you don't make any effort to improve on yourself.

You giving birth to a child when you know the current state the economy is not so favourable and your purchasing capability isn't enough just because you believe in God is like bringing the child into the world to suffer. You shouldn't even think of doing that my friend

There was a day my had a deep conversation with my mom and we talked about children. My response was " I'll never give birth to a child unless I've got my home well arranged, capable to sort out my bills without stress, stable source of good income and got 10 million naira somewhere without any plans attached to it. Then will I think of birthing a child because I can't give birth to someone into this economy without being prepared. I can't afford to stress my child and that's just it.
My parents did everything good to see I got a nice life and I want to do even more than that for my kids so for the greater good, they should wait till things get better to my taste.

There are rich people who just enrol their kids in boarding school and think that there job is over as they are paying monthly heavy fees. This is not the only responsibility of parents. Me as a father love to see my kids at home, when I come back from office. In my view everyone must have kids at least 2 but heavy too many kids means you won't be able to give proper time to all of them. That aspect must be kept in my mind, if someone is thinking of too many kids. Every child need proper attention of his parents, make sure you have kids that get your adequate attention.

Looking at this figure, I understand the need for government birth control. If we imagine that all people will multiply by two in each generation, then this will lead to overpopulation of countries.
By the way, in China, it was recently allowed to have more than one child, I hope that they will be prudent and not cause an explosion in the birth rate.

From economy perspective, having kids and raising a family should be only according to how far an individual can afford. I see people having five to seven kids and leaving them to raise themselves alone and risking their whole future, I really don't blame anyone that chooses not to have kids because having kids is a lot of responsibility that requires steady income and if you are not financially stable the last thing you should be thinking about is having kids. Indeed children are blessing from God but we shouldn't misuse that blessing, it is only a selfish person that gives birth to more than four kids without a steady income to take care of them.

People's perspectives may vary, some believe that those who don't have money shouldn't have children first, but others think differently. There's nothing wrong with each person's perspective, as they are the ones who understand best, although sometimes that can't always be maintained. I'm a simple-minded person; having children isn't a big deal even if you don't have much money, as long as we're willing to try, there's always a way to earn money.

In a religious context, perhaps we need to examine our respective beliefs, as children should also be categorized as a blessing from God, so blessings aren't always just about money. Health, a good life, and a harmonious family are also part of God's blessings. Being grateful can bring us far greater benefits than constantly complaining.

This is such a wrong way to see things. Children are completely the parents' responsibility. If you can't provide the basic things like good food, a conducive home, good clothes, good education, protection for that child, and every other thing that child will need to live a happy life, you shouldn't have a child. Children are not a gift from God; Children are a result of something. If you don't put sperm to fertilise the eggs of a woman, she won't give birth. It's simple Biology. If you plant a corn seed in good soil, it will grow; that's simple biology, not a gift from God. So if you don't have the means to take care of that child, don't bring him into the world because he would suffer so much for something he did not ask for.

You're not doing that child a favour by bringing him into the world, it's yourself who did the favour because it's you who chooses to have something. It's like going into the dealership and getting a car, for example, you didn't do the car a favour by buying the car, you did yourself a favour. I see many people say that kids should be grateful to their parents for bringing them into this world, while it should be the other way round. Parents should be grateful a kid came into their life and they have to provide that kid with everything he needs including love and care.


It's not too much to ask. That is the barest minimum in my opinion. A child doesn't have to come into a world he didn't ask for, and then suffer for another person's actions.

This is not the case globally, I do think some areas may be overpopulated but overall the world is still mostly empty.   Its not about absolute numbers but efficient usage.  China is efficient in many ways, they deserve much praise especially recently but the one child policy was not anything that has done them good.
  China as a nation wont suffer the burden of a growing population, their young people dont want to have children as they grew up alone & this is not an unfamiliar after effect of such a policy.

  China has a falling working population, they had better better be amazing at AI and many other techniques to make up for the short fall or cannot expect to regain the great growth they had at the start of this century.

Yes it is right to have kids and God said we should go and multiply but that does mean one should start having kids when they are not capable enough to Carter for them. Before you start having kids, you should atleast be able to earn enough to take care of them, so they won’t come and suffer.

Secondly when having kids, you should make sure you give birth to the number of children your income will be able to take care of, you should be able to still live comfortably with your family after having a child or children. Not earning very low Income and you’re having 5 to 6 children you’re not able to take care of. I believe everyone should cut their coat according to their size.

In our country, birth control laws have been enacted long ago but they have not been strictly enforced in practice. We have heard the slogan of not having more than two children, one is better, since childhood, but so far this slogan has not been implemented in our country. In various countries of the world including China and Japan, strict laws are made on birth control and their people follow them very well, but in my country, people are not obliged to follow any birth control laws. That is why the population in my country is constantly increasing.

Raising a child is not an easy job because you need to prepare everything to ensure that the child's needs, education, etc. are met, but many parents don't pay much attention to this, they only know how to have a child, but they don't prepare everything, so the child grows up lacking everything and has to struggle... even for many children they have to become the backbone of their family, and that is definitely burdensome and unfair for them.
As you said, you don't need to be rich just to have a child... a person just needs to make sure that they are prepared with everything the child needs and they understand what their responsibilities are, so that when the child is born, they don't inflict suffering on the child because of their failure as parents.

Maybe the government in your country are too lazy to enact strict laws that will help control birth. To be sincere, this issue of increase in child birth really need to be taken care of because we can't keep giving birth to many children that cannot be taken care of while they grow up to become nuisance to the society. Everyone should give birth to a number of children they can take proper care of. If possible any couple that has given birth to two children has to undergo mandatory family planning vaccine.

Do you want world to be populated everywhere? Does earth belongs to humans alone?


That's right, I see many teen children doing labor work in my country, these children never have safe space to grow and security to fall behind so they rarely are able to get out of mud hole they were born in.

That is really true, because as parents it’s our obligation to raise our children properly. They are our responsibility, and this is one of our roles as mothers and fathers.
It’s also true that having children doesn’t have any limits, whether you are rich or poor.

If you think about it, most of the time it’s actually the poor who tend to have more children, especially those living in squatter areas. Meanwhile, the rich usually take time to carefully decide how many kids they want to have. In short, some people practice what we call family planning, while others don’t really care about it at all.

Intentionally or not, you reminded me of the movie idiocracy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy). The first scene from this movie is even available on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP2tUW0HDHA
If you haven't watched it, then I recommend watching this movie, or at least the beginning of it. Yes, it's an old comedy, but when I walk down the street and see mothers with three children, I feel sorry for them because their whole family doesn't look well-off with money. I understand that this poor woman probably still has a hard day ahead of her, consisting of cleaning and cooking, despite the fact that they can hardly afford to buy, for example, fresh meat or fish.
There's nothing good about it.

Well, historically and now, poor communities have higher birth rates than wealthier communities. Economists and sociologists agree that lack of access to education, knowledge concerning family planning, or in some cases, cultural or religious expectations are the main causes. On the other hand, the rich are typically more aware, have better access to health care, and spend more per child, so they do think twice before increasing their family.
Admittedly, if you go back a century households even in more affluent circumstances might have had many children due in part to higher child mortality rates and the increased need for labour. As societies became industrialised and education became more widespread, birth rates fell dramatically. This process is known as the demographic transition and is played out country by country.

The bad news, as you said, is that poverty and large families tend to go together. And when that one or two generation of parents can't feed and educate two, three, or more babies, the cycle of poverty continues. That's why many locations today have seen that empowering women through education and access to basic healthcare has led to poverty reduction in the long term.

From it I understand. No matter how much the government imposes the law of birth control. It would never be reasonable. Because having a child is it everyone's own personal matter. Besides, do you think it can ever be implemented? I won't say Because every man-woman has physical needs and they will meet it. However, we should keep an eye on this, so that the number of families does not increase too much. And if everyone adheres to the law of birth control, the population will increase day by day. Because the birth rate will never decrease, because if you look at your family, you will understand. However, after taking a child, every father started working hard. So that he can live a healthy life. And they become more self -sufficient than ever.

In which planet do you live? do you think 2 men below are healthy?

I haven't see in a family, the married man is well groomed than the married woman. It's either the woman well groomed than the man or both of them well groomed. Unfortunately the society support with this kind toxic life, where the man must obey with anything asked by his woman.

People only ask "do you happy with him?", no one ask "do you happy with her?"

https://imgvb.com/images/2025/09/20/0160ff97ecd0e072d1648eb079acd27a.png https://imgvb.com/images/2025/09/20/4ab4952fc3463d387d48c00d8640adf1.png

https://www.reddit.com/r/weirddalle/comments/1axhpfg/man_before_marriage_vs_man_after_2_years_of/
https://www.thehansindia.com/life-style/health/why-men-get-fatter-after-marriage-778276

Of course, the big question is who can stem the birth rate? This is a matter of destiny from the Almighty. Yes, in some cases, it's a bit odd that when a region's population is considered declining, the government is busy implementing various initiatives, providing financial incentives for these families. Conversely, when the population is overpopulated, the government is at a loss, worried that they will not be able to meet basic needs and will ultimately be categorized as a poor country. This is achieved by tightening regulations, including mandatory family planning programs, limiting the number of children, and so on.

Every legally married couple, especially today, certainly has a plan for determining the size of their family, but this can change at any time. I believe what needs to be considered is how the government, as the primary supporter of the population, creates new jobs. It's up to them what method they choose, as long as people can work and be independent in supporting their families.

C'mon bro, you needn't have posted that second ai image. But I agree with overall sentiment, people do get fat after marriage, I know people in friends/family, who after getting married, have gained weight.

Were your parents that wealthy before giving birth to you and why don’t they consider marriage as scam?
First looking at it biblically we can say ‘he who findeth a wife findeth a good thing and obtains from favour from the sight of god’, meaning when you have a wife you don’t need to care about how you should feels but he would supply you all the needs, except you do not believe in his words. Many people married with faith and today God is really making out ways for them, so you do not have to wait and makes all the millions before getting married or having kids, and yes what you said is what you believed but in my cases it’s different and we have kids also schooling yet we knew that economy isn’t that bright but yet people are still making it. Perhaps it’s good to remain positive and also know that children are blessings from God and he provides for them as well.

People should believe what they see with their naked eyes (even then there are exceptions, because eyes can also be fooled) instead of lenses of this spiritual garbage, I think I have mentioned before in this thread where people who shouldn't have had kids, had and they destroy the kids lives because they didn't have means to provide for kids.

I read this book on Nanking massacre, here before Japanese troops arrived to the city of Nanking, the rich flew the city, while the poor couldn't, they were massacred along with their kids. Surely, this extreme example I accept, but you know what this tells you?

Meanwhile... God, I am yet to see the proof of his existence. Do you know whether he exists in first place before you put your hopes on him?

Waiting until one is well off simply means that one should wait till they become wealthy
This can't be without some questions like;
When do you think you are well off considering insatiable wants and unpredictable future?
Does waiting until one is well off make any difference from waiting for perfect time?

While financial stability plays a big part in providing a good life, it can't be the sole or major determinant for getting married or having kids . There are priceless resources that many loving parents offer, regardless of wealth, off which wealth or no wealth without these resources it definitely causes pains having kids.
 The target should be responsible planning, as building a financial gatekeeper for parenthood can even fail over time or overnight looking at history or other peoples experiences.

Happiness here does not mean having economic well-being, rather there are many parents who do not have economic well-being but are quite happy with their children. In fact, it is not right to judge happiness by money or economic solvency. A parent can be wealthy, but if they do not have children, they will never be recognized as a complete parent. There are many parents who do not have money but are living a very happy life with their children and there are no complaints in their families. On the other hand, there are many parents who do not have children but have money but are quite unhappy. In short, the happiness of a family largely depends on the satisfaction of each member of the family. If they are responsible for each other, they can be quite happy even without economic prosperity.

.
Don't believe on supernaturals? You are not alone @liberty19
However, the decision to get married or not is wholesomely personal(believers or unbelievers) so has nothing to do with the existence or nonexistent of God..

Well there are so many things one can't wait until they see with the naked eyes before believing.
Example
How many have been to mars and or out of this earth? Yet the belief of those existence are real.
When one says God... It implies beyond human nature or natural....  Historically, there are supernaturals or beyond human events and aside history, supernatural or beyond natural are still happening whether you notice it or not. Based on this, some bad eggs have commercialized on the supernaturals making it harder for unbelievers to believe having examples of spiritual garbages propelled by these garbages themselves. Even as some spiritual garbages are as a result of other factors not limited to ignorance (lack of knowledge and intelligence).
But then, since there are spiritual garbages;
Won't there be spiritual resources?
Does it mean there're spiritual resources?
Why won't there be spiritual resources?

Scientists are busy trying to propose a unifying theory (the theory in which other theories exist). In other words, they want to prove what cannot be proven as it is already obvious to some of them of this unfathomables about and beyond the globe.
Just imagine the helplessness of science!! What was not believed and accepted today becomes the revolutionary in the nearest future. Why? Because of human nature!!

Painfully, ancestors are not without ignorance but their knowledge is still a composite part of our civilization. This same ancestors has it among themselves of this unexplainable forces that can unravel things Ordinary brain cannot explain.
So far, it was and or is just approaches to the supernaturals that differs but the beliefs of human brain unfathomable force(s) is common among ancestors of different civilization, continents and countries.
Can it all be fabrication all the mediums, words and so on that exists about the spiritual?

Let’s say gravity... Who have seen gravity?
Why does it happen? How does it come about?
And all that..

Ordinarily, there are things you can't wait until you see before you believe. Some has paid regrettably for that.
Can the eyes see every thing?
Who are you that talks about your body? (as in my body is paining me)
Are you separate from your body that you talk about it like that?

Does human mind exist?
Is there any organ or seeable part of human called mind?

Are you serious? Can you tell us in more detail what kind of pedigrees you have there and why this is important? Usually, the importance of family trees is discussed only in the context of monarchies, but there is only one such family tree per country.
A slightly different version is described in fantasy films like Game of Thrones, where everyone introduces themselves as I'm Carl, Carl's son, etc.

I didn't mean well-off as in wealthy. I meant it as in basic needs for a healthy living sorted out — owning a place to live in good area, a stable job and personally I would add owning a farmland too, to grow one's own food and harvest rain water so food and water need is sorted out.


I meant that for people who think god will provide for wife and kids.


You can see mars via telescope.


I didn't understand much, but you seem to be offended that I called spiritual garbage, spiritual garbage, is that right?


Yes, there are things which can not be explained, or understood but just because it's so, I do not give credit to god.


I only know brain that's lump of flesh on top of head.

I think kids give happiness in the life And more money is associated with the kids because if there will be more kids then they will give you support to earn more money and your income will not decrease in the presence of kids . If you have more kids then you will be more successful in the life . People should think about that because that is best way to earn more money in life . If you have one kid then you will spend all money on that person and in your old age he will not support you and you will be on the road or will spend your life alone which is very tough for old person because they need support in the old age .But people took wrong concept And they think that they are debt on the family but that is not right.

I'm wondering what you're basing your arguments on anyway. Do you have any evidence base, or did you just paraphrase what was written by someone else in this topic earlier?
If what you said was true, then the richest countries in the world would be the poorest countries in Africa. After all, the birth rate and the average number of children per woman are the highest there. Look at the tables in wikipedia page that called List of countries by total fertility rate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate#Country_ranking_by_most_recent_year)

In these rankings, countries have higher fertility rates and the higher the fertility rate, the more children per woman. Do you see any rich countries there?

I totally agree with you. Not being well off and bringing children into the world would just be for them to suffer. If you can't take care of yourself comfortably, why have children and hope you'd be able to take care of them. Waiting for divine intervention? Most of these children would turn to crimes to keep up or die of starvation. Either way, you would have given them life only to take it from them. So, if you want children, work twice as hard, thrice as hard, in order to make sure they don't suffer cause of you.

It seems that you have managed to touch on an important topic that no one has mentioned here before - the correlation of the birth rate to the crime rate in the country. To investigate this issue, we can use the same tables that I gave earlier as an example (about fertility levels). And here is the top-10 of countries with high fertility level:
Somalia
Angola
Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC)
Nigeria
Uganda
Chad
Mali
South Sudan
Central African Republic (CAR)
Mozambique

Now the most important question is: do you think these countries can be considered safe to stay there, at least for tourist purposes? Sarcasm Mode: there are so many children there, how can it be dangerous?  ;D

These countries mentioned here are highly unsecured. Nigeria has always had high birth rate but was not facing insecurities before as it is now. High population might be part of the problem but it's not the only one. High birth rate could be a curse or blessing depending on how the political class is able to utilise or maximise this growth.  An example is China, India and others with high population but are still safe to visit.

I think India is not a good example. Yes, it is, of course, much safer there than in Nigeria, but so far no objective documentary about a trip to India is complete without stories about how part of the population there lives below the poverty line.
I mean, all these sad stories about the fact that the price of life there is extremely low, many people have no prospects in life, and some are forced to sell their organs in order to survive.
China has achieved security within the country through total control... By the way, it was allowed to have more than one child in the family relatively recently.

It's only natural for a good and responsible parent to strive hard for want to give their children a better life than the one they had growing up. That is why it's really important, a necessity even, to plan and make adequate preparations for the life and future of the child. To do all of that and more, you really do need to be financially stable.
But then, you don't have to be affluent  to have kids. You just have to be able to step up and provide when needed, relevant things the child would need.
Bottom line is, if you plan on bringing a child into this inflation ravaged society, you should prepared and ready to meet its wants and needs.

You are right but it would have made more sense if you said that one should not have more than one child if they are not financially buoyant. Having kids is a beautiful thing after all. I once created a thread about procreation but after some deep thought i found the need to still reproduce but the number of children should be controlled. Looking at the economy of today, it's not same as it was years ago so there's need for birth control in order to avoid giving birth to children that cannot be well taking care of in the society. Even for someone who is financially stable, it is still important not to give birth to many kids because life happens, a rich man can turn to a poor man overnight so the only thing that can save such person at that period is if he has like one or two kids. Children foods are so costly now which makes it difficult in raising an infant. It is not advisable to not have kids just because one is not stable in income, at least let it be that you have a job regardless of the pay you can still have a child and not children. Having a child at a very young age comes with many benefits because you are sound and healthy which means you will take adequate care of the child but imagine having a child at old age simply because you were looking forward to being financially capable first.

The bolded part is very very important, you know so many folks believes that children are gift from above and as such they give birth to a lot of children which they can't even take care of, and this forces them to send this children to the street to beg and do all sort of illicit activities just to bring money home for the family. And here is the truth, some of the ills we have in the society today like kidnapping, prostitution, robbery mostly boils down to the actions of these children that where sent off to the street by their irresponsible parents to fend for themselves.

I will say this childrren are not gift from above, they are ratherr product of sexual intercourse between a man and a woman... And as such before anyone thinks of marrying and having kids, they should ensure they are financially stable. Financial stability here is not just about having a source of income but having a very strong source of income that can properly take care of yourself and your familyy.

To be honest, you need motivation to earn. When you have little needs, you will not want to work hard because you can earn money according to your needs by working hard. Before having a child, parents only need to be aware of their own capabilities, that is, what they can do and whether they have the ability to work. But when a child is born, the parents will have a feeling of earning half of their future income for the future of their child, so they will want to work harder and earn more money. That is why I think that instead of not having children for the sake of financial well-being, you should have children by questioning your own capabilities because then the motivation to earn money will work.

Their are pros and cons to both having kids or not from an economic perspective.
The cons to it is that many fear having children due to cost of living, the cost per child in some developing countries can run into hundreds of thousands of dollars,  there are parents who lost opportunity cost due to the fact that they spent investment opportunities and career growth on thier children which should have been invested in businesses, stocks etc. So these aspects sometimes discourage some individuals to bear children.
The pros to it is that children should be seen as retirement plan, why do I say so, well because they do support in old age, they provide care, security, and help financially in thier parents lives later. Children are certainly future producers because without them there's no hope of anyone becoming high earners and uplifting the family financially.

In the past, children were considered a labor force, and the more children a family had, the more they could expand their household. But nowadays, children are an expensive responsibility, they need to be fed, educated, treated, developed, and at the same time parents still need to earn a living. Today, having a large number of children in a family without a decent level of income is more about irresponsibility, and even deeply religious people are moving away from that idea. If we don’t come up with a humane way to regulate the number of people through birth rates, the planet itself will activate its own regulatory mechanisms, such as diseases and wars.

---

Certain conditions are necessary for having children, and it’s better to take care of them before a child appears in your family if you want parenthood to bring more positive emotions. Children are a huge responsibility, and if you want to raise a worthy, happy person while also staying in a good state yourself, it’s better to plan such changes in your life. I can even say that even with a plan, things will still not turn out exactly as you thought. It’s definitely not a good idea to postpone having children almost until retirement age, but having a life strategy that includes an approximate age  for having a child will help you live your life more fully and create a new one in a healthier way.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

These are very good thoughts: motivation is the driving force, and if you're in your comfort zone, you won't try to earn more. But if you have someone to help you, your income will increase significantly. I remember when I was just starting out and planning how much I'd save for investments, I thought I'd have to save until old age to achieve anything with my current income. But then I had to earn more because I found motivation and found ways to earn more, that always happens when you're motivated.

'should be', wow!  The children should be treated as their own individuals with their own identity, they are not here to serve you. If you want old age security — get insurance, invest money, hire a maid when you can't look after yourself but don't have children.


Children should be on their own after certain age, they aren't there to serve family either. This kind of thinking disgusts me.

Instead of children take care of you, you want hire maid to do that until you end your life? Have you ever checked prices how much it cost to hire a maid? Friend of mine checked how much it cost to send his grandpa do nursing house. It cost from 2k EUR per month for a nursing house where nurse or stuff really take care of patient (not just check once a day if person is still alive). Compared to my expenses on a child, it does not cost 2k EUR per month to take care of a child.

I agree to say that children is like a motivation to the parents because I discovered that when we don't have enough responsibility to take care of, we don't struggle much. But once you're into a relationship with kids you will want to double your hustle so as to enable you take care of the responsibility, is just like when people are being afraid to get married due to the fact that they don't have source of income, but when it happens unexpectedly they will be surprise on how they will be getting money to provide food and other Basic needs for thier family.

children can only be a motivation to parents that already has a good plan before having those children. The reverse will be the case for parents who had no plans before having children. There are parents that can't take care of there children or meet up with family financial needs, are we to say that there own case is different. Having a family always comes with a responsibility which most parents fail to acknowledge and there is just to be giving birth when they know that they can't handle the responsibility of having a large family. The crucial thing is having a good plan and knowing the responsibilities that comes with being a parent before we begin to talk about children as motivation.

I don't want to do calculations, I just mean, I am not fan of treating kids as an investment or to bring them here for one's own selfish purpose, it just does not sound fair to me.

What if in the process of getting well-off you become old before it happens or it never happens at all? What if you're well-off today and after having kids you become poor? I think that if you can afford to take care of three people within your means you can have one or two children. It is important that if you're not well-off you should marry an industrious woman who can support your finances. What we should focus on is we shouldn't have too many children that we cannot take care of. But so far you have something doing to make money you can have a few kids if you want to.

Not a bother, children were saved from living in miserable conditions.


I am not fan of 'what if' scenarios.

Nobody should treat children as investment and look on them from "they must do something for me" point of view. But dont you think that children are continuation of one's kind, oneself, one's opinion and vision of the situation? For instance you believe in crypto. You are huge Bitcoin and its idea follower. Dont you want your idea to be followed in a person of your child? I know that raising a child and having children is expensive, but I dont look on them from money point of view, nor from a future helper point of view.

Everyone just thinks that raising a child is expensive, including supporting it, educating it, and providing for its future. And it may seem difficult financially. But when you become a father to a child, you will develop a mindset of increasing your income. Because then you will think that now I have to take better care of my child than I do. This thought will help you find a source of income. Maybe finding new business opportunities or increasing your income through investment will be possible then. Although it is quite difficult to say and actually increase your income. But the difficult path will give you a different self-confidence. Maybe you can change the direction of your life while taking care of your child. And many people may have gained such real experiences.

I firmly believe that children are blessings from God. Despite financial struggles, many parents lives are transformed for the better by their kids. I don't see anything more unique than being a parent. To be honest, having children brings me the most joy in the world. I understand that having children can be challenging, particularly when one is struggling financially, because you have to provide for their basic needs and education, but it does not discourage me from not having kids, i will do everything possible to be a good parent. Some people may not be suited to have children due to their irresponsible behavior, as every child needs care, support, and guidance from their parents.

Although from a spiritual perspective it is always said that children are a blessing from God, but in the end we must realize that nowadays we also have to be realistic in responding to things.

When we are still preoccupied with financial conditions that are still inadequate, there is nothing wrong with delaying until we can really be sure that we can be responsible for our child's life later.
This does not mean that we are not grateful for what God has given but we also have to be responsible afterwards, not only because we are focused on the words “blessings from God”, we do not prepare carefully because after all, children can be said to be a blessing if we are able to be responsible and support them properly but it will be a different story when our conditions are still not able to do this but force us to have children then it will only torture ourselves and our own children in the end.

If your child is a human being and does not have any material support, you will feel happy. And if you have a mountain of wealth and your child is not a human being, the happiness of that wealth will be buried in the dust in an instant. Don't think that I am writing to teach you. No, not for that; but to think, to think deeply, of course.

What we want in life - that is our choice. Do we want a beautiful, happy and comfortable family life, or do we want another life full of financial luxury and splendor, burned in the fire of unrest?

So is there no need for wealth in life! Of course there is. Even more important is to transform your child into wealth. To protect your acquired wealth, it is also important to transform your child into wealth.

It’s true that raising kids brings both joy and pressure and while financial stability is important it’s not the only thing that defines a good parent. money helps to provide comfort and opportunity but love patience and presence shape a child’s growth far more deeply than wealth ever could. A home full of care even with little money can nurture confidence and happiness in a child.

Still, it’s also fair to say that bringing a child into the world is a huge responsibility. when someone isn’t prepared emotionally or financially it can easily turn into stress and conflict. that’s why timing matters, not because children are a burden, but because they deserve stability and guidance from parents who can manage both their own lives and their children’s future. There are people who started from almost nothing but their kids became their motivation to work harder and improve their situation. sometimes that push is what turns struggle into success. life changes completely once you have children; it demands sacrifice, balance, and growth, and it often brings out the best version of a person who is ready to step up.

Talking in economic perspective, This moment at present has the highest number of youth population than it ever was so its tough out there fighting for a good job, getting a place to live and sustain a child's costs. Naturally people see their suffering and don't want their kids to go through it. But what we also should consider is a lot of these young people are deciding to have no kids or just one. It may seem a good idea now but it won't sustain our population growth. By the time this year born kids reaches the active age, there would already a scarcity of manpower. Just like in the past, having more number of kids now would be an assets than liability.
But people don't think in economic way anymore, they want to be happy and care free now. Having no kids lessens their responsibility and their little salary would be enough for them to rent a room eat and drink everyday.

I totally agree with this. It's true that children are blessings for their parents, and only those who are lucky get to have this blessing and their importance can be asked from the parents who aren't able to have children of their own for medical reasons, because adopting will give you a child, but the feeling that you will have from your own can't be matched. That being said, a human being, especially a man, has to think rationally about things because they are the ones who will need to provide for the family. So, when you think of getting your family extended, you need to make sure that you are capable enough of taking care of the whole family that will now become bigger.

If you don't have a stable income, struggling to eat proper meals yourself with your spouse, then planning a child in this situation is nothing but foolishness because you can clearly see that you are not in the condition to take good care of the child, then you shouldn't plan it in the first place. If you believe that your destiny might change after your child comes in this world, then remember that something like that doesn't happen to everyone.

What blessings exactly are you talking about? Children doesn't brings blessing, let's get that straight. You know why elderly people do say children brings blessings, thats because you tend to care more when you have an offspring to take care off, you become more of responsible person than you have ever become, you spend money save up more than you have always been doing before especially if you don't save money and then people begin to see that on you as blessings which is nothing but shift of responsibility.

I don't see anything bad in having a kid and I don't see anything wrong either in not wanting a child, it's your choice, you do what makes you happy. However, if you don't want to have a kids, I don't believe such people have the right to adopt one unless you don't have what it takes to produce one.

Children are often called blessings not because they magically change a person’s life but because they push people to grow up in ways they never expected. when you have a child your priorities shift your view of life expands and suddenly you start caring about things that never used to matter. that responsibility brings a new kind of discipline and sometimes that’s what people interpret as blessings because it changes your mindset and your sense of purpose. For many parents it’s not about wealth or status it’s about the emotional fulfillment that comes from nurturing another life. even when the struggles are heavy there’s a sense of meaning that comes with knowing someone depends entirely on you. that alone makes people stronger more patient and sometimes more successful because they now have a reason to keep pushing forward.

But it’s also true that not everyone wants or is ready for that responsibility and that’s fine. having children isn’t a moral obligation it’s a choice. some people live fulfilled lives without kids and still contribute greatly to society. what matters is honesty with oneself—whether or not you truly want to raise a child and can commit to it fully. As for adoption it’s not just for those who can’t have kids biologically. some people choose adoption because they want to give a child a better life and that too is a noble choice. what’s most important is the ability to love care and provide stability. whether the child is biological or adopted the blessing comes from the act of giving love not from the label of being a parent.

Ayy, thx for bumping the post. We're back in the roll, I find responses in this thread entertaining.


Wat?


Certainly have kids, if you have means to.


It depends on individual, I am not fan of family life and I would not bottle down my living into luxury, splendor either, and what unrest are you talking about?


Without having material resources, it makes it hard to transform your kid into 'wealth'.


I don't call it, 'lucky' to have children, majority of people can have 'em without fuss — I mean look at population, and there are also methods like ivf.

The important point is that we must be realistic, and I agree with you. This isn't to reject God's grace, but we must also prepare for it all. After all, we have to be responsible, right? From food, shelter, clothing, and so on.

I personally don't want to be a criminal to my own child. What I mean is, if we might not be ready for all of that, we can minimize it by not entering. Unless, for example, our economy is doing well and we have children, and then our situation turns sour, that would be a different story.

I know some persons right from day one they don't like kids and they find it hard to be around children but that shouldn't be a reason for others not to have kids, children are a blessing from God and we shouldn't use because of how difficult the economy is to stop having children. I think this is not about the hardship of the economy, is mainly because of fear that's why maybe for the OP and some other persons and we do forget there are some children that immediately they find their way in any family things will turn out for good, is good to have children but you should know when to stop producing depending on how much you have but it should be a factor to stop having children.

It all depends on the individual, everyone has there own perspective about life and how they see it.there are people who don't have money from were am from but they keep on given birth to children they can not take care off,hoping those children will survive and grow older to take care of them no matter how bad the economy.but if you are civil enough to no the kind off life you want for your self and the children you are giving birth too,that is when you start been calculative about your income and the economy.

Such people that doesn't like kids are acting that way because of how they are but isn't like they don't want to be around kids. Some could be there experience, me as an example I don't like babies that teething because they cry alot during that period, if you are not the type that tolerate alot that time, it will make you want to fling them away because tell me why a baby will just he crying for no reason but if you know problems of infants, you will understand them better.

Some people don't like babies when they are younger, they do feel like they might over pressed them because of their body but it does not make them not want to have babies. I feel everyone in their life deserve to experience having their own child, it makes you care more and have your family.

Some person won't have kid because their financial still not stable yet exactly for the new bride have to manage well with financial condition spent out much for having house. Most of them will prioritizing decent housing for his kid one day later and not planning as soon as to have kid after marriage. Nowadays in my environment looks funny, some one with difficult financial condition can't stopping have kid not enough for one kid but also easily for them having three until five kids with short period moment.
I can't imagine with small salary payment how to manage well if have three until five kid exactly most of them need much money for school cost until healthy cost. It must be normalized that if you want to have more than two or three children, you must at least have financial stability and be able to provide them with a decent education and housing. If can't guarantee all it better without having kid or have one kid more enough to control well with current financial condition.

Generally, if a person has financial solvency, then I think it is definitely necessary for him to adopt a child. Nowadays, there is a trend among people that they think that raising a child requires a lot of money, but in fact it is not. Here, I think a positive response is most important. Those who have limited income can also adopt a child. It should be done by having a good understanding with the husband and wife. If there is no such difficulty, then definitely having a child is very necessary. It plays a very important role in strengthening the family relationship.

There are many people arround the globe who don't care about spreading their genes into future generations. A worldwide movement called "Anti-Natalism", which goal is to establish a community for anti-natalist people. I frequently visit social media groups about them and it's clear how many people having the same ideology. There is already a sub in reddit for people who want to find a partner for marriage without having children.

Now you sound like you came out as an adult, we all went through those stages and you can't say that's the reason why you don't like babies, there's more to what you said. If you tell me that they are too fragile that you're scared of holding them at that period it will be understandable it happened to me but using that growing of teeth as an excuse isn't something I can agree on, you as a human went through that stage and you should ask those who took good care of you how they felt, after hearing all what they went through to calm you down you'd change your perspective about children, you'd love them no matter what.
No matter how small a baby is taking care of them teaches you how to be careful and also how to take care of them when they're in need of something, you'd have to understand their language even when you find it hard to communicate with them. I see those who don't like babies as selfish individuals because they only think of themselves than others that's why having a baby around is lie a big borden.

Well interesting

first off do I own a farm

if I do having kids makes sense.

Do I live in a first world city making kids makes less sense unless I am an earner.

Also I will be very blunt I am a guy my risk of death by fucking and sucking the same woman (wife) is way smaller for me then her if we try to make kids.

Women die making kids. So if You are married and your wife is good to you and you are good to her you both have to calculate the downside of kids.

her health goes to risk.

and your good sex life goes to risk as does hers.

so the decision to make a kid or two or three or more is not so easy.

I am 68 I remember a world with only 2.5 billion people this world has 8 billion people so I know the world work with far less people since I watch the word AND LIVED IN IT BACK THEN.

My wife and I lost all our kids to miscarriages and we are 68 and 69  so kids are not in the picture.

If can be a good life with out the kids as our life is good.

But if I were 30 and she were 30 I know we would try again to have some kids.

That's true for me, aside from what I said earlier in topic and comments, I can't tolerate anybody else's presence around me whether it be kids or grown ups, it's just how my brain is (or conditioned this way) and I live by it's whims.


Yo, this is the first time I think anybody has mentioned antinatalism here. I visit r/antinatalism regularly, sometimes there are good reasons given why one shouldn't be having kids.


I am offended. I don't see how it's selfish when if you decide to not have a kid, it harms none, and kids are spared from death as well; people call, 'gift of life', but I always saw it as, more like, 'gift of death' — may be I am a pessimist, or may be a realist because what I said is factual, no?

Unfortunately, despite the big number of people who adopt the anti-natalist philosophy, their ideas do not find much resonance. What you see as good reasons is what made this doctrine worth following. In Reddit, the sub became a space for those people to know each other and get into real life relation.

Note that when we say anti-natalist people we mean those who don't want to have children, not those who gave birth in the past and don't want to have kids anymore.

I agree with having children to strengthen family ties. Yes, if a couple has financial stability, even more than enough, but is having difficulty conceiving children, adoption might be the way to go. However, there are also families with financial stability and children, but they are busy with their respective careers, which means the children rarely get time with their parents. This is something to be wary of.
Considering that everyone's economic circumstances are different, sometimes a man isn't ready to marry because his finances aren't yet stable. But what about what others say about marriage opening the door to prosperity? Do you believe that?

Don't act as if having children is a gift that gives us the freedom to have as many as we want because ultimately what we need is responsibility especially when we are men.

Indeed this situation may be a little contrary to those who prioritize spiritual and religious words but for now we need to be realistic that having children means we must be prepared for all forms of responsibility especially from a material perspective, from when our children are small until at least they are adults and can earn their own money.

If we only focus on blessings but our responsibilities are poor and only bring our children into misery then it would be better for us to focus on stabilizing our economic conditions first before having more children.

That is the point. We should not just take refuge in the blessings given by God and then forget our responsibilities towards our own children because, indirectly, when we cannot provide a decent life for our spouse and children, it is a form of crime against the blessings given by God.

This doesn't mean I disagree with having many children, as that is perfectly acceptable, but with the caveat that we are capable of providing a decent life. However, if we are still unable to fulfill this, it would be better to exercise restraint and focus on improving our economic situation.

giving birth/ have kids is good but do that at your own convenience,don't give birth to kids you won't be able to take care of.most kid's from homes where they where not properly taken care of,are the once causing societal problems today.


 governments of all countries should put laws in place bounding people from giving birth to more than one or two kids, unless you're financially stable or capable to take of more than two kids .and promises your kids will not become a nuisance in society.children are gifts from God but without the right and stable upbringing the kids become trouble to society and this is most times caused by the parents which were not financially ready to have kids.

It's nice to see a post with real original thoughts among a string of those who are just participating in an imaginary contest to paraphrase what has already been said.  :)

If you do not take into account the desires of your own children, there are several other factors:
There are no guarantees that children will take care of their elders. There are even no guarantees that the children will live to see it.

You're talking about the cost of living in a nursing home for 2,000 euros per month, but it's important to consider which country you have in mind. In the developed countries of the European Union, the minimum wage is about one thousand euros, right?  ;)

I'm in same struggle and currently trying to have at least one child, but it seems we're losing hope. We've done everything but still we didn't get any good result as we always fail.

I accept already the situation and won't pressure my wife into those things which I think impossible to happen.

But despite of those struggles we are still happy and enjoy our life together. We don't talk about this matter now and focus on our own welfare. But still looking forward to have some miracle and have at least 1 child since I think the family is complete if there's kids running around in our house.

I agree with you, yes, we came to this world today because our parents decided to have children. On the other hand, Allah sent us to this world and said that you should decide to have more children. So I think that no matter what the parents are. There is no prohibition on them having children. And having more children creates happiness in the family.

That is what is important with your marriage, both of you are enjoying and happy with each other's company. Did you consulted an OB doctor about this matter? I think that they'll be able to help you on how the specifics and what must be done for your wife's bearing of child.

Just have faith, soon, you'll have it in an unexpected time. I wish that you both will get that but it's nice that you've also letting things happen accordingly and you're not in a hurry.

Having kids should be a matter of choice, make sure you are ready for it before bringing any innocent child into this painful world, I pity them souls more than myself honestly because some parents today are giving birth so that they can have people beside them when they are older.

I know a couple who choose to not have kids until they can really afford it, and they have been together for few years already, things are now looking better for them and I like how they planned it all out.

In the beginning things aren't so simple, yet they keep each other very close, they love each other and they don't let the lack of money separate them, and yet they choose to not bring any kids into the world yet, I am pretty impressed with how well they planned themselves.

Often children are just outcome of having sex, especially in poor families.


You are on crypto forum and as saying goes, 'don't trust, verify' — are you aware by experience that Allah sent you here? And what he said?

Having kids is good, but it really depends on your financial stability. I once heard someone say he wouldn't have kids if his broke in life because he wouldn't want his children to suffer the way he did.
And this statement actually make's sence, but if everyone starts waiting to be fully well off like you said some might not even have kids.
In my opinion What's actually matters is proper planning, decipline and being able to provide a stable and loving environment, not necessarily wealth.

By the way, yes. That's why we know (from American films) that to prevent unwanted pregnancies, free contraceptives are already being distributed in schools.

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I seem to have read the whole topic here, but no one has touched on the topic of unwanted pregnancy. What about raping women and getting pregnant because of it? Is this also done at the behest of the gods?

With what you say, it happened in my environment, I have a grandmother who has a sibling, we will call her A, this A is quite old and it should be time for her not to work, maybe just rest and in fact she has more than three children, but all her children don't live with her, they didn't even come when the funeral took place. From this I conclude that there is no guarantee that children will take care of their parents when they are old, sometimes there are children who are this bad, why is that because I think at least they should have come to their mother's funeral, but none of the children came at all. I feel sorry for my grandmother's brother because none of the children pay attention to him.

Uncertain family relationships can be people often expect their children to be their support in old age but life doesn’t always work that way sometimes distance personal problems or even pure selfishness get in the way it’s sad when parents give everything for their kids and end up alone when they need love and care the most.

You’re right too about the cost of living and care for the elderly it really depends on the country in many parts of europe a nursing home can easily cost around 2,000 euros each month while the average person earns only about half of that this gap makes it almost impossible for many older people to afford proper care without family help or government support. That’s why it’s important for people to plan early for their later years not just financially but emotionally and socially relying solely on children isn’t a guarantee everyone should build some level of independence and also try to create bonds outside the family so they don’t end up feeling forgotten. Your grandmother’s sibling’s story is painful and sadly not rare it reminds us how unpredictable human behavior can be and how compassion seems to be fading in some families taking care of elders should be about gratitude not obligation but too often it’s treated as a burden we need to keep talking about this so the next generation understands the value of family and respect for those who raised them.

That’s exactly what’s being said, and it’s especially true when thinking about families in informal settlements where people have no savings, no stable jobs, and live without control over their future. Even if their children grow up without financial resources, a quiet home, and steady income, they often remain children without a future, especially when their families lack guidance.

And in such situations, it’s the parents particularly mothers who often carry the responsibility of shaping their children’s path, despite having no money, no work, or stable income.
That’s why it’s so important for us parents to guide and support our children, because without that, they risk growing up without direction or hope.

If these set of persons use lack of money as an excuse to not get married like is not the time yet, when is it the right time to get married and start having children? The thing is some people are afraid of having that responsibility on their shoulders, that's it but what I feel is to start from somewhere and also ask for help on how to take care of the little ones, ideas can come in on how to manage the family.
Yes some persons are like that, knowing fully well that feeding alone is a problem they still go ahead to produce more than 3 children (I see these people as the typical example of "go into the World and multiple), is not funny but they really lack family planning and like I said before, even if you're on the producing side is best to know when to stop weigh your pocket before you continue but some find it hard to stop and is bad that is the woman that will suffers for it.
Honestly is better to have in mind how many children you want to have base on how much you earn, an agreement between the couples on the number of children to have is good if not you'd see children as the problem you're facing not knowing that is the man himself that the problem.

The process of having children isn't a spiritual act in itself, it is majorly a physical act which occurs through the sexual intercourse between a man and a woman.  And yeah Parent have the freewill to give birth to as many offspring as they want, but then where this now start becoming a problem is when parent begins to start multiplying dozen of offsprings without them having the finances of taking care of them. Infacct ehn in such instance children wouldn't even be seen a a thing of happiness but rather a thing of pain and constant fighting..........Most of this parent, in order to justify their silly actions and excuse their irresponsibility( of giving birth to a lot of children that they can not even take care of), they begin to say and tell others that children are gift from above, that it is the will of the divine being that they are serving, for them to give birth to lots of children. I mean c'mon we are no longer in the stone age, tis is the 21st century for crying out loud, where we have things like contraceptives, condoms and even other safer and medical ways of enjoying your sex lives without necessary getting pregnant

Just last week a young boy in his 20s from my area who usually go from street to street trying to survive, got knocked down by a motorcycle, and nearly lost his life..... ... Situation like this make me begin to wonder if some parents are even capable of conscience and reasoning, coz if they did, they wouldn't bring countless numbers of children  into the world that they can't take care of and then begin to blame it on the "Devine Will"   while those same children end up suffering and turning beggarss s on the street.

One funny thing in most of our society today is that it is even though that doesn't a good financial stability to take care of children that are given birth to children compared to those that much more financial stability, I believe that there are countries that want the increase in population while there are those complaining of over population hence the idea of putting laws in place bounding people from not given birth to more than two might not work in all countries just as you said , the government of an nation will only react based on their personal circumstances.

This awareness must grow within ourselves before deciding to have children. Never rely on others, because we will ultimately be the ones to suffer the consequences of our decisions.
These days, many people are reckless in deciding to have children, ultimately burdening themselves by working harder to meet all their needs. So, I believe we must take wise steps before deciding to have children, and we must prepare early. We must also realize that having children will cost a lot of money, so savings and investments are things that must be prepared early.

Well I'm sorry for offending you unknowingly but what I'm trying to say is that the way you see kids is like they are the problem surrending us and you make it look like they are a burden, that they block opportunities that comes your way, honestly bro, children are brought into this world not by their own will and whenever they do, they face the same problems as we the adult. But what I'll remind you is that you were ones a child too and you survived so many hard times and you should give one a chance but if you don't Iike to then abstain from sex completely because without sex no one will say you're going to become a father, at least it will make you feel free...just saying you know?

I literally say what I say looking from kids pov, I don't think I have ever made 'em look like a problem. Can you show me where exactly I did?


I may have survived hard times, but I didn't need to, I could have been completely fine without having been born.


I am COMPLETELY convinced in my mind it's useless to bring kids into this world, and sex and kids are not interrelated in this age of intelligence with contraceptives and procedures like vasectomy available.

The point is that we should not be selfish by hiding behind beautiful words, because life cannot only depend on that. Maybe we can be selfish towards ourselves, because the one who will bear the impact is ourselves. But in this case, if we are selfish then the one who will feel the impact is our little family, especially children.

I have learned a lot from divorce due to economic factors, and the victims are the children where they do not get the love of both parents. To me this is a form of evil that results from lack of preparation. Nowadays there is a lot of young marriage trends, I don't have a problem with that, but when I see them not having an income and still depending on their parents, I think it is a selfish act.

Lol, like seriously, marriage a scam? I doubt.

Well it's a personal view and thought. But then, marriage is money consuming and one needs money to get into marriage, because I think money is greatly needed to handle responsibilities that come with marriage, ranging from your spouse and then children when they eventually start coming.

But looking at the average income and all that is involved in maintaining a family, how long do you need to wait to gather all this money? And you know, family has a continuous need. Is not like you get a particular amount and you are okay. It is a continuous demand, the more the years and growth, the more the demand increases.

In my own opinion, we can't get all the money or enough money. Once one has a considerable amount of money to meet up certain needs, and has a job that is bringing some amount of money, then one can get married. I believe, as one goes on, one can grow financially by seeking other source of income. Waiting for enough money to come before getting married might keep you away from marriage. Marriage is not a scam if you ask me

Being realistic in life doesn’t mean lacking faith it means using the wisdom and sense that god has already given us faith without preparation or responsibility is just wishful thinking every blessing we receive comes with a duty to protect and nurture it and that includes our family when people say god will provide they often forget that god’s provision can come through our own efforts discipline and planning we are meant to work for the stability of those we love not just hope everything falls into place. Bringing children into the world is a huge responsibility it’s not enough to want them out of love we must also make sure we can feed clothe and educate them otherwise we risk putting them through unnecessary hardship being unable to provide for them doesn’t make someone evil but refusing to prepare before having them does show selfishness because it means ignoring the reality of how tough life can be when you’re unprepared.

You’re right about seeing families fall apart due to financial problems when parents constantly argue about money the children are the ones who suffer the most they don’t just lose comfort they lose peace of mind and security and that can leave lasting emotional scars divorce caused by economic struggles often begins with lack of planning and the belief that love alone will sustain everything. Many young couples today rush into marriage thinking that feelings alone are enough but love without stability is fragile it can easily break under pressure it’s not wrong to marry young but there should be a clear sense of responsibility both emotionally and financially being dependent on parents after marriage or bringing children into such a situation is not fair to anyone involved.

Mentality becomes a reference here because after all, when we already have a partner and offspring, this will indirectly make us required to be more mature in seeing things, including in terms of economy and responsibility, especially when we become men.

What you mentioned is true because in the end not a few children can become broken homes just because the parents are not ready to have children but always take refuge with the sweet words of blessings from God.
Children can be a blessing if indeed we are able to support and provide the best facilities for them but when we still cannot be able to do this then in the end such conditions will only torment, apart from tormenting our mentality as parents who might be said to have failed this will also torment the child to be miserable when they are born into the mentality of parents who are not ready in terms of morally and materially.

Another thing that is not talk about is having kids because people pressure you, that's very wrong. If you want are willing to make babies because society is forcing you then you are indirectly putting yourself into problems. By the time you are face with life challenges, all of them will be no where to be found by that time. Do your thing when you know you are convenient and ready but at the same time, I don't like the idea that someone will stay till they leave the earth without a child.

It doesn't make any sense to leave the surface of the earth and you don't have something attached to you and be remember. When you die and you don't have kids, your generation is going to be forgotten easily but by the time you have an heir, you have mark a living thing on this earth that is gong to multiply in many fold, your blood line is going to continue until the day this world comes to and end, your generation will be remembered on earth for their contribution to life and humanity.

Same but, many people have this sentiment mindset especially with the way things have become expensive and with the way life has become unpredictable,
‎Being financially stable is very important before having children or before getting married,
‎Having all is not just the only way but be responsible and prepared financially, mentally, emotionally, to provide a better environment,  you don't necessarily need to have all, but at least have something that will fetch you money steady for the well-being of the children, and have a good mindset for parenting,
‎So I agreed that being financially stable is very important before having children but  it is not a must that you must be rich before being a good parent,  what really matter is being responsible as long as you can provide love, direct and provide a  comfortable home that's a strong foundation so it is not all about having all, but it's about how prepared you are.
‎

I didn't have a good laugh today, but after reading this I had a good one, thanks man.

...and I'd like to give my 2 satoshi on this last part of yours (I am really sorry for quoting twice).


Meh.

PS: I was going to write a para arguing on this but then 'meh' sounded a proper response, and I apologize in advance if that wasn't worth 2 satoshis.

Bringing a child into the world is a big responsibility and not something to be done just to please others or meet social expectations many people underestimate what it really takes to raise a child properly it’s not only about food or shelter but emotional stability time patience and love if parents are not financially or mentally ready it often leads to problems that affect both the child and the society around them children who grow up without proper care often struggle with identity confidence and behavior later in life.

The idea of regulating birth might sound strict but the main point here is awareness people should understand that having a child is a lifetime commitment not a seasonal decision forcing parenthood out of pressure or tradition can lead to frustration and neglect it’s better to have fewer children and raise them well than to have many and struggle to meet their basic needs. Still having kids is a natural desire and part of the human cycle everyone wants to be remembered and to leave something behind but that legacy doesn’t have to come at the cost of suffering for the next generation the real legacy is raising a child who grows to be kind responsible and useful to society if that can’t be guaranteed right now then waiting until one is ready is the wiser choice.

Everything should not be judged by emotions. If one do not have financial capacity, then having a child will further worsen his financial situation. In my opinion, one should definitely observe well before taking a decision. When a child joins your family, it will cost a lot to grow up. There are many instances where after having a child, one cannot take good care of that child. That child cannot grow properly. Everyone should consider the situation before having a child, but it should be considered properly before taking it. Again, this shouldn't be considered too difficult.

That's right, we should be separating the realistic and the faithful, not conflating them. Thinking more realistically doesn't mean we don't have faith and this is something that still lingers in the minds of our parents where when we try to explain they judge us with words that clash between realism and faith such as, “when I say that, it means I don't believe in God's will”.

It's incredible that when we try to explain we are judged like that.

This is what should be considered, is abandoning children because of what we are talking about not an injustice?

To say fully prepared, I don't think there are or are very rare to find people who are fully prepared. But at least we have prepared well, after all we should also be able to learn from what we see or maybe even be able to ask directly about how home life is.

Yesterday I visited a friend of mine who has children, and he was very tired and complained to me that having children is incredibly expensive these days, while government assistance is minimal. The government pays benefits, but no one can survive on that because it's so little.
Even though the advertisements portray it as if having children is practically an easy way to make money, in reality, it's an utterly delusional idea and a financial trap.

I also have a friend who had a kid couple years back, and I can also see the tiredness on his face, and there is no government assistance here.


Can you link such an ad where children are portrayed as a way to make money? I have never seen such.

What I meant was that the government won't tell you directly that receiving large sums of money for having more children is the primary goal for many, but many greedy parents view these sums from the government as a great supplement to the family budget, and so they are always overjoyed when the maternity capital (here called maternity capital) given for having more children increases with the indexation rate. I hope you understand what I meant. It would be better if the government didn't give money for having children at all (because if someone sincerely wants to have a child, they don't think about financial assistance from the government), but rather provided good salaries for the country's residents, so that future families could have peace of mind.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2025/11/04/U6NCO9.png
https://www.tiktok.com/@hxydnnnn/video/7332768431235812641

I'm not sure if this problem is a general one but I notice many parents deprive their self many things just to be able to provide everything they need for their children, it's not like they are not making enough just that the children responsibility takes away everything from them and you wonder if it's right steo to have kids because it seems many parents are happy on their faces but inside, they wish they can go back in time and never have kids.

When I see parents with 8 and more, u begin to question myself how were they able to have xxx with each other and comfortably born this children. What happen to family planing, why not close the eggs if both have high libido. I don't know the best way to put it but it's a big mistake to have plenty of kids. Why not go got one or two kids and live your life, having many of them doesn't guarantee anything, not I have seen from different religious believers, it's sometimes make family separate due to no cooperation from them.

I do understand. Thanks.


I am all in that, also it would be better if govs give benefits to those people who have less number of kids (or none) than more; imagine people not procreating, so they can get more benefits, this will also make people who really want child have 'em.

Also, I would like to clarify that earlier I said, "no government benefits here" but there are actually, although these benefits are not monetary, here gov gives food grains, the more kids you have, the more ration you get — ration is given per person.


I didn't get it, but all of them could be a dancer it looks like.


You should checkout the r/regretfulparents.

Ironically those that are financially stable don't like giving birth to many kids, it is only those that are struggling that often give birth to more kids. Rather than making such laws, let the government fix the economy and create more jobs and pay good wages to make sure that the people are engaged in economic activities, that way they won't have much time thinking about making children. When a man is at home all day with his wife doing nothing, they will think of nothing else than making babies.

Also some countries need more population of young people to keep carrying out economic activities and fill their military, so it will be practically impossible for government all over the world to make such laws.
If they make such laws, there will be shortage of man power in the nearest future.