Bitcoin Forum

It is said Avalon will start to ship the Avalon 6 at the end of Oct,2015 , hashing rate : 3.5T   , Power consuming : 300W / T  ,  price: USD 315 / T .
After calculation, Avalon 6 will be USD60 /T less and 70W/T more if antminer keep the same price with the next bath.

It is no official news and no photo right now , but it is been pre-saling on some chinese website.

I hope Avalon will do better job on  noise level of Avalon 6, then can get more customers on the current hard situation.

Please post out your idea for this ..

***************************************************

Update on 21th Oct.:
Avalon finally get their newest bitcoin miner Avalon6 spec in public
http://www.itop-corp.com/asset/file/image/20151021/20151021163139_38442.jpg

Avalon6 Specification
Hash rate   　3.65T±10%
Power at wall   1100W（power efficiency 90%）。
Quantity of chip  80
Power connector  4x 6PIN，you need to connect all 4 connectors when running
Cooling fan  12038, current min: 1.6A ,Max:2.8A
Max speed: 3800RPM
Temperature  Max Temperature of intake :38℃
Controller  Raspberry PI（version 1，B，B+），。
Each Raspberry PI can control 60 units
AUC  max 6 units can be connected in series with each AUC
Protection  The machine will not start when the fan is damaged 。
Dimension  136×150×334mm
Weight  4.8kg
INGRESS PROTECTION  IP20
Power supply  1200W 80 plus gold power supply recommended
Voltage  min:11.7V   max: 12.2V

iTopshop (http://www.itopshop.net) will sell it soon
  

That would be great if true.

Definetely I choose Avalon. But I would like to know more about it.

Until there is a full Spec, real delivery dates & prices it's silly to even consider the Avalon. However if it's a similar price & less efficient I would stick with the S7.

Rich

If they are truly shipping next month I assume the hardware is finalized, or 90% of the way there.. One would think at this point there would be more concrete information...

If the above is true I would buy a pile of them..

I would steer clear of the Avalon unit until some additional specs are released or actual shipping starts.

Pre-theorizing is a dangerous way of getting pre-scammed on pre-pre-orders. Buyers pre-beware!   ;D

Someone almost fell for that with the SP50, and got pre-ripped-off 100-200 bitcoins ( we don't know how much yet, they haven't set the price )

Is there a link to more information about the upcoming Avalon products ?

If those are indeed the stats I would choose the Avalon without a doubt.

Avalon 4.1 is very quiet.  It's the quietest fan miner I have had.    Hopefully they keep this aspect as it was pretty amazing on that front.

Can you link to any of the sites that show pre-orders?   I am not pre-ordering but would enjoy to see the site to see if looks creditable.

If Avalon can get close to S7 efficiency, and sound levels to their 4.1 I would be all over a few Avalon 6!  Aside from the Antminer S3, the 4.1 has been the the most enjoyable miner I have owned.

It's kinda a hidden gem.  Most have not used it so they don't know how truly quiet it is compared to other miners.  It's just a huge difference.  But they did charge a premium for it.   

I hope they do not charge a premium for it like the 4.1 but time will tell.

This is one of the chinese web store : http://shop.cnbite.com/product-190.html

I would stay far away from Avalon given my experience with them.  I won't buy one of their miners again.

Is your experience from the early avalons?  I'm guessing so with that.

I ordered some 4.1's from when I did a guide for it.   All went fine when I ordered from ehash.   But I realize that is different then those who dealt with original avalon.

I have 3 and have not experienced these points.   Are you overclocking or something?   I am running mine at very efficient settings.   I just have not seen a miner that matches them on quietness. 

Have ran efficient most of their life's.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1008726.0

Yea measure them and let us know.  I would be interested in hearing it.   I think something is off with your unit if your getting these spikes that are making it louder then a S5 even modified.

You might check your fan and see if something's wrong.   I have 3 and do not experience the spikes on any of them.  All were bought directly from avalon (e-hash) not second hand.    But I even had them running in my bedroom they were so quiet.  Only miner I have done this with.  

how did you get an s5 to go to 38 d?

I got 55db and 1300gh

I got 45db and 1100gh

Yeah If I clocked to 700gh 38db would have been possible.

what speed did run the s5

This is good but I highly doubt they will be cheaper than the S7 due to the prior sales prices.

The noise in the past would a great benefit but there is no reason to assume that the Avalon 6 will be quiet.

Also they should of called it the Avalon 7 to compete with S7 for the same reason why the 2nd Xbox was called Xbox 360 to compete with the 3rd generation of Playstation (PS3)

Issues with these claims.

 1) Why would Avalon skip a model 5?
 2) Why would this show up on some "preorder" site and not on Avalon's own site?
 3) Why does the picture look IDENTICAL to an Avalon 4/4.1 unit?


 MY SCAMSENSE IS SCREAMING.


 BTW, tranlated page link for those of us that don't read Chinese
 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://shop.cnbite.com/product-190.html



This unit, IF IT ACTUALLY EXISTS, doesn't appear to be aimed at the S7 - and the "logic" of basing your name for a unit on a competition product makes ZERO sense anyway.
This unit, IF IT ACTUALLY EXISTS, appears to be aimed at where most folks EXPECTED the S7 to show up at, or even a pre-empt of a potential S9.

 In any event, the naming of the XBox 360 had NOTHING to do with the nameing of any Playstation - nor did the really dumb naming of the Xbox One.

300w per tera vs 250w per tera, draw your own conclusions

antminer s7 is better, but i would prefer to have a mini version of it

That is the nice thing if something goes wrong you lose 1t not 4t for a period of time.    Although having 4T+ in small form factor is nice.

We really need to know price to decide anything assuming it's real.   Without price hard to decide much.

2200 yuan listed on that preorder site, but dunno if that's supposed to be the FULL price or if it's just a down payment.

 If it's 2200 yuan TOTAL price, that IS a "ignite price war" very good price - and my SCAMSENSE explodes.

yeah 2200 is under 400 usd even if we pay a lot to ship and end up at 500 usd.  the price is good.

my thoughts are 2 good to be true.


say 3.5 th using 1050 watts costing 500 - shipped

vs 4.8th using 1200 watts costing 1650 - shipped

based on the prices Avalon has charged this price is too low.

Sadly I would agree on the price being to low.  They charged a nice premium on their gear.

If this is true then their business model would have changed a lot.  The 4.1 was at 1.92 BTC not including shipping when they sold it out ( https://ehash.com/product/avalon4-module-1t/ )

OP DID say $315/TH in the original post - which would make it a competative unit but not insanely good at around $1050ish.

 No clue where that data came from though, nothing about it on the site they posted.

Thats indeed good news.
We need Bitmain competition. I just hope that Spoondolies would release a 3-4 th miner at a decent price..

Really hope this and more company can free us from bitmain's monopoly.

The real question is when? There's no point if they don't release it soon. But if they do it will lower the price of S7's too, which would be good for the consumer regardless.
The 4.1 was nice and quiet however, so there might be interest in ditching the S7 and going with Avalon until Bitmain raise the quality of their hardware for the home oriented user...

I don't know that they have a quality problem really.   They had one where S7 some did not get full spec but they seem to have found how to fix it as they now have a batch of faster, and a batch of slower.   

But overall they ship a TON of home miners and yes there are complaints.   But people who are happy post less then someone with an issue.  So I think what  your seeing on the board is a tad twords the "bad" side of their production.

Well when i say that, i'm thinking about the cheap thermal dissipation design. Albeit better in the new S7 form factor.
The software being rickety at best and important feature are left out on purpose. For example, they removed Volt control on S4 in later firmware while its possible to hack it back in and it work just fine.
The software is ultimately low end, not very good. Compare it to the SP20.
The noise is bad, compare to Avalon 4.1, although with the fan control and low ambient temp, its not that bad, just not excellent.
The plugs are on top of the miner, so its harder to stack, if all the inputs were behind, they would be more manageable. Again this is worse with the S5 and i'm not sure with the S7, but still. Compare it to the other mentioned miners.

Going into it though you know what your getting.   Bitmain has kept pretty much same software for all of miners, they are very similar.   So it's not a surprise on software side.

Also you don't want inputs on back as this is where hot exhust is.  So putting say power cables in the hot exhust is just not good planning.  I agree avalon 4.1 and sp20 did a better job with inputs on front.  But the S5 was built to be low priced.  It was not encased in a nice case like other two and used plastic sides.

If your wanting change I do not think it will come from bitmain as far as far as software design anytime soon.  As far as hardware going from 2 blades to 3 with S5+ and S7 I consider hardware a decent change.  Also a metal case compared to plastic sides.... so there is some improvement on hardware side.   

Hope Avalon 6 will exist but right now no answer from the Avalon team.  :-\

There is also a hope of Innosilicon coming up with a chip.  They have been huge in past with A1/A2 chips.    They had a partnership with LKETC which brought the dragons to market.   

At some point they should have a partnership with a miner.  They announced it a while back and got quiet.   But there are a few hopes out there to make it not a monopoly. 

Other is SP doing a SP40 series.... I really hope they do a hobby miner.  But not sure if we will get interest or they only pump out SP50's once they do start shipping (whenever that is)

SP40 will not exist. SP said in the pass they will not do any more home miner.

If the price is right then I will prefer avalon 6 if you're saying that the avalon 6 has less power consumption, then this will be great
300 watts VS 1,210 Watts isn't bad either but let's just wait for more details on the avalon 6 :)

300 watts / TH per that web site original poster listed - so a little but not a LOT worse than the S7.

 I crunched the numbers though, and not looking like this Avalon 6 (IF it actually exists and IF the specs and price are correct, between original poster and that Chinese website) will RoI ever even at 3 cent/KWH electric, unless Bitcoin price sees a substantial jump or diff increases flatline REAL soon.

I'm guessing it will really depend on the price tag on the unit. By the time they release it, since they are taking too long to do so, i don't think they will be able to price it at much more than 1BTC/TH/s.


The hot hair should come out to the other side, not the side where you plug your things. You could use good solid plastic, it would be lighter than metal and still very solid. Tho not much less expensive. And my biggest grief is with the software-hardware part of the software. The volt control is bad, the fan control is finally here but still very bad. Etc.

sorry guys, on avalon6S, my major design goal is to lower the cost and keep it stable & reliable at the same time.

look, most of your attention is price, price, price. how can i waste any more cents on user expreiences?  :-\

ng

Your 4.1 was a great piece of gear.

When the 6 comes out I will get one and review it.

I like the idea that it will not be loud and will use less power then the s-7 from bitmaintech.

How long before I can order one?

Only some few ones shout price price price. I shout reliable (like sp20) a work horse (like sp20) and nice gui with lots of setup OPS. In my hosted farm (in another country) were I do the monitoring through vpn, I need a reliable miner with automatic reboot or restart of cgminer when hashrate drops to a specified low hashrate. Power use is essential but for a 50-100 th orders pr order bulk pricing is more important than what 2,3 or 5 units cost.
Finally we need to break Bitmains monopoly…
Keep up the good work and let me know when you guys are ready for a trial miner before bulk orders.

Intesting you mention the SP20, because by the time the SP20 was selling in enough volume to compete with the then-current S5, SP-Tech was selling them for a loss.  They even acknowledged that it was built too expensively, but that they were not willing to sacrifice quality or design because that's who they are. I'm sure this is a large reason why they are staying out of the consumer market for this gen (that and to avoid dealing with whining customers).

So the basic fact remains, the market is a free one in which price dictates demand.  If you want to sell miners for a profit, make it cheap and reliable enough for others to be able to turn a profit on it (even a small one).  If you want to either not sell, or sell for a loss, over-engineer it and include all the creature comforts.  Remember, other than a small group of individuals (enthusiasts) in our community, most miners buy hardware in-line with a business model, these aren't Playstations or iPhones where we get some kind of entertainment value out of them.

The SP20 was a win for us consumers, but it was far from a win for the company, at least from what I gather...

Finsky, i give you right in most of your comments, but in my mixed farm with both SP20 and An S5 the SP20 is running for months without power cycle is needed, but each day 1-2 ants needs power cycle and not only a Cgminer restart. In 1 month 4 ants needs repair out of 75 and my first batch of SP20 from January 50 pcs are working flawless downclocked to 1.35 TH.
For me it costs fortunes to get Ants back for repair and rhen shipping back, so reliability is important.
You are right that to beat Bitmain, Avalon needs to release something of same build, but just more reliable and they will get a lot of customers.

I'm not disagreeing with you in the least, my point was simply from the company's perspective as ng is here representing Avalon.  The Antminer S5 fared better for Bitmain than the SP20 did for SP-Tech, because the SP20 was built so well and had difficulty competing from a pricing point of view.  This is not a bash to the company or their product, in fact quite the opposite. I had ~20 SP20's and they all performed flawlessly  (Except that they didn't meet the claimed max specs but that's another story).  However as I mentioned, if you want to sell miners in appreciable quantities without taking a loss on your product -especially in a fast-depreciating market like bitcoin miners- you need to build it to a certain price point, not price it to a certain build point.

Hash rate and efficiency are the epitome of a standardized product.  The block chain does not care what brand, efficiency, or quality of miner put out the hash that solves each block.  And, as most of us are in it to make money, it needs to be priced competitively in order to achieve our goals, plain and simple.  That does not mean that Avalon's product may be given more value to it due to the fact that they produce quality miners, and their last gen was quiet enough for home mining, that does count for something. But again, $$$ in and $$$ out, for most of us it is black and white.  :)

the avalon 4.1 was way more reliable due to the rasp pi controller.

buy 2 of them 1 for work 1 for backup.

hookup  3 or more to 1 rasp pi and you are set.

the 4.1 was quiet I had 3 purchased a fourth on ebay and that deal fell through.

I would love to review a 6 when the time comes.

The wife would also like it since it would be cooler and quieter then the s-7 running in house now.

I would agree a Avalon 6 would be something on my list to get eventually. I still have my 4.1's running they ran all summer and did it great.  They are great on under clock and honestly the most quiet fan miner I've ever tested.

I hope they get it out there on market in not to long.  But they are pretty quiet.

The price of 4.1 was crap! the price of a second hand one was even crappier!

Show me the avalon 6!

It was priced at a premium price no doubt.  I don't expect 4.1 to jump down.  It is a quiet miner with nice underclock and very very quiet. So if you compare to like S5 it will always be higher.  I was so happy with 1, i got 2 more Avalon 4.1's.

Avalon 6 no one can say what price will be yet.

repeating the price policy behind 4.1, might spell bankruptcy

They wont go bankrupt.  They made money off of 4.1's.  They actually did better the other's they were willing to hold till they got price they needed/wanted.

Look at SP20 that kept dropping, and said they took a loss on some of last ones.  They kept 4.1 pretty even on price and did not jump into the price war. So they were pretty smart as a business on that.

In general.

Avalon didn't sell products in a loss, we just stop production when it's not competitive enough.
Then you see the Avalon4.1's cost very high so the retail price can not go down. (~2000RMB at last I remember)

For sp20s, I did a very carefully review on it. I think their marginal cost is close to ~2000USD. Any NREs are NOT included.
It means sp-tech sell them at about 15~20% of their cost.

Bitmain did a very good job on the tradeoff about price, performance, reliability and UE. This is worth learning for all miner manufacturers.

About avalon6S, I think it's a miner designed for big mining field. We did a lot of job on mining farm management systems in the past year.

I have a plan to do a low noise DCDC solution miner (Avalon6P )for home, but it's sure will have a higher price (30% cost increase) and
lower efficiency (5-8% decrease) compare to a "string" solution. Also it's far more difficult to design & manufacture.

So the reality let me pause.  :-\

ng

I'm excited to see what you have coming.  I still have not parted from my 3 Avalon 4.1's.   I love them with Pi as controller and low sound, I had them in my bedroom.  Only big miner I have done this with.

Now they are in my mining area.  But I still love them. 

Why does the design have to shift to DCDC again in order to make a home miner? Bitmain had string miner boards as low as 250W.

antminer all the way no more avalon tried in past and cost more than ever mined and didnt even brake even well recovered about 90% ish but still a loss will never use avalon again and higher power use and delivery times ill pass.

Depends on pricing.  Which Avalon are you referring to?

I know  some consider Canaan-creative different, and some still hold a grudge from when it was just Avalon.   I do not take sides as i was not part of it all.   I can say the 4.1 is a great machine.  If they do like that on the Avalon 6 and close or lower then bitmin I would definitely try one.

Must be price and wattage competitive with bitmain.
4.1 was too expensive and too late for its power consumption

Again It depends on your power prices. No matter what, BTC mining is Fast moving from the West to the East just because of energy pricing, so I think that Avalon could have a big marked in the east.
If just you Eletric pricing is below 0,05 $ then you can make profit of course depending on the price of the miner.
Last, most miners would say today, that its not worth it, but that's just to keep new miners away or = increasing Diff = Miners ROI point gets longer.
So miners would always say, stay out of the game, its too late.

Different machines has different approach, I must admit the convenient and popularity of the antminers that is why many has using S7, but for me I will try both product, a miner is still a miner why debate for superiority, in mining industry there are lot of cost to settle and for me using different miner machines is alright as long as I ROI.

The S7 is not selling well because Bitmain priced it high enough to make RoI on it VERY VERY IFFY even at low electric cost (5c and under / kwh).

 If the spec that have been "published" so far on a new Avalon unit are correct, it needs to beat price/TH vs the S7 to have a prayer of selling significantly, at it's even LESS efficient (though close) and will have even less probability of achieving RoI than the S7 if it's price isn't less/TH.



 There are places in "the West" that can match Chinese energy pricing - there are quite a few other factors involved in the strength of Bitcoin mining in China.

Like being able to get a truck and drive to a Asic manufacture fill it up and go to a data center.  For example US a semi load quite a bit of shipping, China semi to data center much cheaper.   

I think it will take having till a lot of US focus more on electricity price.   At that point our data centers will drop some in price.

i think the s7 is more meant to be used for a short time and sold, again few week month later, so you can cut the long roi, more than the other miners

while taking advantage of its efficiency, if you can selle later, there is no need to worry about the initial price invested

I think most miners at this point are to be sold at later date.  I figure each miner has about 3 homes on modern miners.

1st sale goes to the one with high electricity and early adopter
2nd sale goes to someone with mid electricity, they normally buy used gear.
3rd sale goes to someone with "free" electricity it is obsolete for most others at this point.

I could be nuts but that is how I see miners lifes at this point I dont see it being one owner besides big data center which will be one owner equipment.

this pattern has emerged.

If I buy to mine in my house it has to be the most efficient possible.  My power costs are high.
I have two places with very low power costs.
One is 2 cents and the other is 7.8 cents.

one spot can do 1500 watts must be quiet.
second spot can do 6000 watts must be quiet.

my house can do 6000 watts and in the garage so it can be loud.

I will buy and review the avalon 6  even if it is 25% to 50% more then the s-7  as it should be quiet.

It will end up in the 2 cent spot. So it can mine for a real long time and still make money.

Hi, i've found this links:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Avalon6
This one talks about the testing of the Avalon 6...

http://build.canaan-creative.com:8080/~mikeqin/avalon6/
This one is from canaan-creative.com, and talk about the upgrade testing of the Avalon 6, so it seem it will arrive soon...  :o

They cost almost the same so it might work on both and they go Pi2 as you get more bang for your buck.  But I have a Pi B runnning a set of 3 Avalon 4.1's with no issues.

So I hope they go Pi 2 just as it's maybe 5 dollar difference for like 4x speed.  So makes a lot of sense.

Finally , Avalon get the Avalon6 spec in public officially .

http://www.itop-corp.com/asset/file/image/20151021/20151021163139_38442.jpg

Avalon6 Specification
Hash rate：   　3.65T±10%
Power at wall   1100W（power efficiency 90%）。
Quantity of chip   80
Power connector   4x 6PIN，you need to connect all 4 connectors when running
Cooling fan   12038, current min: 1.6A ,Max:2.8A
Max speed: 3800RPM
Temperature   Max Temperature of intake :38℃
Controller   Raspberry PI（version 1，B，B+），。
Each Raspberry PI can control 60 units
AUC   max 6 units can be connected in series with each AUC
Protection   The machine will not start when the fan is damaged 。
Dimension   136×150×334mm
Weight   4.8kg
INGRESS PROTECTION   IP20
Power supply   1200W 80 plus gold power supply recommended
Voltage:  min:11.7V   max: 12.2V

WOW! it's finally here, the long wait is finally over, would love to try this out, I think it's gonna be great, thanks for sharing, hope it really is power efficient. ;D

It is less eficient than spected, "only" 0.30j/ghs, but, it can be underclocked to be more eficient?

Lower efficiency than the Antminer S7 or the announced 3TH Lketc/BW unit, though close.
Fan appears to be the same unit or a very close to the same unit as on the S5/S7, so NOT quiet (makes sense though at the given power level and form factor).

 This thing had better be priced lower than either the S7 or the eventual pricing on the Lketc/BW unit if Avalon expects to sell a significant number of them.


 I am NOT fond of the "auto speed" stuff, that's one of my bigger complaints with the Spondoolies SP20 - can't fine tune the thing yourself, you have to tolerate THEIR assumptions on how you want the thing tuned.

 38C max intake temperature - if that's for full hashrate, it's tolerable, but still kinda low. Seems like this unit could use better heat dissipation design work.


 what is a "golden power supply"? Is that supposed to mean a "Gold Efficiency Rated" power supply?

it seems a bad translation from chineese, i think. I read "80 + Gold power supply"  ;D

Thanks for sharing.   I'm excited to see a new miner on the market.

Did they release the price?   I really am curious on it.

It will probably cost as much as an S7 due to the fact that they make low numbers of these miners and don't expect to sell many of them.

yes , you are right , that means 80 plus gold certificate power supply, it is corrected now.

YES!! Can't wait to get one of these on order.  Fingers crossed for a decent price point with the anticipation of them being sold at least a slight premium.

Edit: Would be great if you could run these off the same controller as the 4.1 as I have 2 already running.

It says it can use 11.7 volts.

So if you have a mean well rsp-1500-12 psu and drop volts to 11.7 it will be more effiencent .

I have one concern it uses four pcie cables so under clocking will be very important.

The sp20 did not do well past 250 watts a cable

Most of us ran the gear at 1300 gh to help cables stay cool.

I think this machine is going to run better at 3000 gh using 11.7 volts and hopefully 800 watts.

It also looks louder then the 4.1

It looks like they just removed the exterior cover for the fan on the 4.1 to this one to try and reduce weight possibly?  Maybe better air flow to achieve quiter sound?

Where did you get these ?

Edit: I want one now!  ;D

Eventually should be on https://ehash.com/ eventually.  I have to admit Itop has gotten the scoop early a few times at this point, exciting to see a release like this.

I really want to see a price.   I would love to add one ... or more to collection.   The 4.1 I fell for I bought 1.... did a review and loved it and bought 2 more to get the set.   I'm hoping for same feeling on this miner.   I was impressed with the 4.1 running in my bedroom only miner I did this with ever.

But now I have a mining area so noise not an issue.   I hope more info soon.

Ohhh, these look nice. Better designed than the Bitmains one since all the connectors seem to be in the back, though i don't see an Ethernet port, so i'm guessing they use a external controller?

Still look easy to stack, properly enclosed.

I wonder what the back hex grill is for, however?

hey it's below the s7 but if the cost is half or around that, it could be a very good mienrs to start with, to bad it's 1100w, not good for residential houses

Price, price, price

If it's the same like s7, i got no interest.

Maybe they will price it like 4.1 vs s5........ ::)

A lot will depend on price & delivery date, but particularly for those of us with $0.15 electricity, I think it's a bit late in the Day for a J/GH of 0.3

Rich

I would agree price will be key.   I'm interested to see what it costs.

They did do what looks like a production model, and not early prototype. So that is a little positive news as that could mean sooner.

Warranty? Is it 90 days (I think) like the S7 etc...not thrilled with this 90 day stuff even thou I'm 99% never gonna mine a miner again
(less then 50 buck usb toys or some such  don't count) but big ass miners for the home are 'done' at my 13c kwh rate .Indeed!

Below from E-hash:

Q： What warranties does Avalon miner carry?
A：Avalon miner carries a 90 days warranty which begins from the very first day your order arrives. We promise to replace them with new miners but mining earnings will not be compensated.
Situations below will invalidate your Avalon miner warranty:

    The miner is disassembled manually or takes any man-made damages, such as breaking off, crack, chipping, component missing, etc
    Damaged by lightning stroke, or unstable voltage surge;
    Circuit board was burned out or any chips burn-out;
    Damage caused by water inflow or water soak;
    Expired warranty period.

With invalid warranty, we can still provide you with non-free maintenance service.


I cant say as far as RMA but they were very nice when I needed help with a RPI image.  For some reason my controller saw no miner, it was beyond me.  They had a guru log on and he was able to upload a new firmware I believe to image and it worked.  Very nice and easy to work with as far as that.

Avalon now have a partner in USA that will manage the RMA and the sell. This is a really good new imho. We will probably get better support and cheap shipping price.  ;D

That's quiet a relief, its pretty much more of a real warranty if we don't need to pay insane costs to ship it back to Bitmain.

The efficiency is relatively low compared to whats coming and even what's already out. So hopefully the price will match. I might be interested in buying them if they were at 700-825$ per unit. I'm under the impression there will be a premium like for the 4.1, so maybe they will try to sell it for 1000-1100, however.

That is awsome news. I'm thinking about picking up another SHA miner. I haven't ran an Avalon before, if the specs hold up I'm really interested in this. Having a partner in the US is big for me!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3plynq/avalon_6_vs_antminer_s7_which_one_you_will_choose/

It probably not but it would be interesting to find out what thier plans are....

The official re-seller no doubt will be ehash.  That is  CANAAN CREATIVE's official online store (Avalon's official store).  So that one most likely will be cheapest to buy unless they team up with someone else.

iTOPshop.net get credit for releasing specs once again.  I'm starting to be surprised companies send to them specs as they seem to be first one wanting to release specs, which is great for us but companies I'm not sure wanted them released.  I just wish we knew the price.

When ITOP released the S5+ specs, it took very little time before we saw the official announcement, then pricing. So good odds they'll come out of the wood with a price tag soon...

I would agree it looks like "soon".  That miner looks like a production miner not prototype.  As it really has finish to it, and looks pretty much done.

So I'm hoping price "soon" but guess we will see.  I like ITOP more and more each time they do the first to post thing.

I'm wondering the same.  I can't imagine companies sending them specs early at this point.   They love being first to release.  So it works great for us miners, I love it.

But as a mining manufacture I would think you would be unhappy to see it posted on forum by someone else.

This thread is useless without price AND guaranteed delivery date.

No different then what is going on with the SP50 thread.

I think that the Avalon 6 will be out before SP50 but that is a guess.  I just think that miner looked pretty production ready.

I  think SP50 has a lot more hurdles being the huge miner.  And it announced lower electricity use.

There's also a very low chance of getting in the first production batch(es) unless you rubbed Spoondoolies with a fat stack of bills and pre ordered before the others. But Valkir sent them a e-mail one months ago asking for a quote for a small group buy and he has not posted back with them giving a reply yet.

So good chances its going to take quite a while longer still. Perhaps not before 2016.

Look, there are 3 pages following mentioned "price " dozens of times. So I'm right. ;D


The picture you got is a prototype. Final product will be natural steel color, not painted.

About noise, I just did a short test in my lab. It's ~70db @ 1M, full fan speed (~3800rpm), include
a noisy server PSU. Air in-take temp is ~ 30C, board temp is ~ 72C. Will significantly lower the
noise by lower the fan rpm, but the ambient temperature should be low.

In this design, I leave the fan out of the case, in order to change the fan fast. This is a very important feature for large facilities.

About price and delivery plan, I will not announce business information here. But I think there will no long wait.

Thanks for the update!  That is great to hear not long.  A lot of us are excited to hear more about it.

Happy to see you reading the forum :).

And there will be fan speed control! Thats just great, it might be the next miner i will start picking up if its easier to chew down that forking over 2k for a S7. Sound like it will be possible to make it run pretty quiet, though it will not be as quiet as the 4.1

I hope we'll be able to fit 2 fans on it too.

It sounds like you can but you should have a low ambient.  It looks like they put a goo amount of hashing into this machine.

So likely we will have to have someone play with one and let us know how it handles low RPM in certain ambiant temps.

70db is dissapointing . when i get one i will see if i can tweak it.

i am willing to try 3000gh rather then 3600 my hope would be to get better hash per watt.

if i get it do 800 watts and 55db i would be happy with it.

Well full speed seem to be for 38C intake.

Unless you run it in a sauna, you should be able to lower the fan speed considerably. Here in winter i can feed it 0~10C intake so i'm actually pretty excited about this.

I'm not to worried anymore about noise.  Which is kinda nice to not be a factor for me like it once was.

For me it's all about release date and price.  I hope the price is good.  Hopefully we find out more on that front soon.

most of the noise is caused by the server PSU if you use say corsair gold series type it would be much quitter ;) no need to tweek :p

"tweak I must" said phil to the blockhunter " for tweaking be in my genes".


Got to toy with the gear.

hehe :) yes understood.

I was just noting that he tested with noisy server PSU so better noise results are expected. The home version even tho more pricey is what I would be interested in :) my dreams of server farm left when the pre- order era took us all for a ride :(

 I must live in a sauna in the summertime - 38C is only about 94F and we see higher temps than that routinely here about every summer, and often with high humidity.

 I'm really looking forward to the MUCH drier climate in Central Washington when I get to do my planned move....

my one s-7 is well controlled sound wise. 

I can run 3 s-7's with good sound control.

 especially with a slight underclock freq 581 and fans at 30

We hit 40C+ here regularly during summer, with humidex, but the machines is only affected by the actual temperature, so even though it was nearly 50c with humidex inside my apartment, the machines were still running fine although at full blast with the fans.

So there should not be many places in the north where its all that hot for a major part of the year.

Looks like we have a confirmed order:



So very interesting he will try to do "cloud".   I'm not sure I follow the part on not being easy to sell as we all know a RPI would be 35 bucks to buy and control one or two easy that hes hosting.

Just noticed he has date they will send... if true this means avalon should be public pretty soon I would think.  But they might fill orders of big datacenters like this first.

I would like to get one do a nice  photo layout on it.  Plus do a good operating guide

If it is like the 4.1 it will under clock and be far more power efficient.

I also wonder what rasp pi it uses..  I no longer have the model b I have the newest model which is far more powerful but did not run the 4.1

If I believe the pictures I saw of an Avalon6 PCB, it looks to be an 18x2 unregulated string per board and two boards per machine, top-cooling ASICs. If that's the case, we're looking at nominal about 50GH per ASIC. I believe the software auto-adjusts clocking to optimize hashrate for the power available, but unless I'm missing something there won't be inherent undervolting like the 4.1 had which means the efficiency is set without external intervention.

Here is my dislike! ;) that crap fan that bitmain uses???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!

Hurry up with the price!

Sounds like a good concept, if I am understanding what you are saying? Does this means you only need to adjust the voltage up or down and the system then tunes for the optimum Frequency / HW error rate?

Even if the system does auto-adjust frequency, it's easier said than done.  Not a ton of PSU options out there to under-volt that I've seen? Especially for the ~1000W this miner will likely require.

Yeah, it's actually not a good concept if you like undervolting. How many people have pencil-modded their S1s and everything else? Compare that to successful undervolts on S5. It ain't easy at all.

I have spent most of my time since I recently discovered Mining undervolting as I have to because of working with out of date miners and high electricity cost. Although with the recent hike in BTC I have been turning the volts up.  :)

I succesfully undervolted an S5 both by obtaining PSU's that can be adjusted down to 9V and by using additional Buck Converters on the output of a 12V Server PSU. To be honest taken overall I found it easier than modifying resistor values on an S1 or S3 as all the work was external to the miner, and there is no escaping the simplicity & efficiency of a string design.

But returning to the Avalon6 I was merely commenting that it was perhaps handy that the firmware optimises the frequency as you turn the voltage down?

Rich

The Avalon4.1 I believe had an auto-tuning option like that. I saw mention on the Avalon6 wiki page ("Support automatically optimize frequency, no need to overclock manually.") which implies the same feature will exist for this machine as well.

What was the material cost you had in getting bucks to power an S5? Modifying resistors on an S1 is probably a fair bit cheaper.

Yes agreed, although I had the advantage of starting from scratch with no prior investment in Miners or PSU's and knowing that I was going to need to undervolt.

So I picked up 4 x 5V 150W PSU's on ebay for $45 delivered. So putting them in pairs gave me adjustment from 9V to 12V. The better solution was the Buck Converters 20 Amp ones, 2 needed / S5, are $15 a pair, 500W 40 Amp ones are $30 so works out the same. I prefer the 20A ones as you can adjust each board separately for best efficiency. They are all very efficient and I have measure as good as 98%.

But agreed this is not for most people & it's expensive compared to a pencil. But it is adjustable and I think that is essential with difficulty going up and BTC price all over the place.

If I was to choose what to have in all honesty I hate the string design with it's one down all down style, and would prefer a digital VRM controlled by software.  :) But you have to make the best of what is available and you can afford. For me Today that is an undervolted S5.

Rich

 Delta fans are crap?

 You have a very interesting definition of "crap".

I'm sure it's due to noise delta's are pretty great fan's as far as CFM's.   I did find I liked the sanyo better on testing with S4 on recommended fans.  It just had even more CFM's going through the machine.

Miners are really not that quiet anymore.    You either have to older older gear or mod new gear it seems.   I do expect power and cost to be bigger factors then sound as far as a business standpoint on most miners sold.

I'll take a delta over pretty much anything else on the market, 8 out of 7 days of the week. There aren't many others I would trust to keep a $2k investment from burning itself down.

Personally with my mining area I don't care about quiet.  I just want a fan that pushes a lot of CFM's and keeps it quiet.  Deltas do this (some models more then others).   If you put it in a living area yes you need to get a different fan.

But overall I think deltas are pretty good.  It's just some people are not set up to have a miner that is loud.  But I don't predict any of the new miners coming out (whenever it is on the 2 or so were waiting on) to be quiet.

 Delta fans are noisy?

 Well, the high end ones certainly aren't quiet, though none of the 120mm models I've seen on miners can compare to the old 80mm 80CFM screamer - thank goodness!


 There are VERY few companies that make fans that can push anywhere near as much air as the higher-end Deltas though, and they ALL are comparable on noise level - like the YSTech that the SP20 used, it only seemed quieter due to a better mount and default lower % setting than the comparable Delta models.


 I used to prefer Rotron over Delta, but Rotron got cheap over the last 20 years - their metal-frame ball bearing fans were bloody near unbreakable, and I've still GOT some that are 20+ years old in working gear with 150k+ hours on some of them.

What i was wondering about is why there were no hydrofluid fan with high RPM. Its nice they can get 80 CFM with under 20dB, so i'm not sure why they could not design some with double the RPM (3k+). Not sure if its a design limit or what.

And since its now official, here is my source.
http://www.blockc.co/products/avalon-6-3-65-th-s-bitcoin-mining-server

Blockc is the us partner of Avalon. We also now know the price.

Edit: MOQ 10. Lets start some Group Buy  ;D

The only thing is the miner will have what a 2 year lifespan?  I'm guessing something like that.  Then it's at "free" or in a museum.

Deltas are loud and push a lot of air.  But a lot of bitmain gear is not to quiet either.  Home miners who want quiet are fighting a battle I do not envy as when making the gear very few look at noise anymore.

I use my mining area so I'm lucky.  Noise I could care less on I just want it to be a dependable fan with lots of CFM.  Mots deltas seem to do this.  I have had a LOT of delta fan's and only one die.  So overall I think pretty good quality.

Yes group buy! But, should probably wait for an official announcement from Avalon?

Hmmmm, probably over 5BTC per after shipping and customs. Yeah i think i'll pass o.O...

I'm not sure whats the math here. Close to the S7 price, yet lower GHs by quite a bit and worse efficiency too?

okay 1300  plus shipping?

why no ehash  I do not know block c.

I'm not sure either I had good luck with ehash. So if I could stick with them chances are I would.  I'm would really need a announcement to switch companies.

But it is looking like possibly a GB item.

Maybe its not the correct thread but i read a lot about noise here.

Consider using acoustic panels for lowering the noise.

check auralex.com for solutions, there are also tons of others. Technically solutions should work any noise generating thing.

I have used their foam absorbing panels on the rack walls before, and they really do the job. Actually I never measured any levels,
but reading so much about noise problems makes me think of doing a bit of research and drop some specs and reached results here.

For the starting minimum i would suggest this:

1. Isolate the miner from the table or whatever surface with a piece of thick foam or something soft and porous. There may be some frequencies that will multiply.

2. Do not put any noise generating equipment in the corners of the room. If you have drywalls around, this rule doubles. Or in case you have no other way, put some carpets or sound absorbing panels or whatever soft and thick on these walls around your equipment. Sound reflections are quite loud, and there are lots of them.

3. Fan is usually not as noisy as the air flow itself, so consider making some kind of air duct made of foam, that needs lots of experimenting,
but can result in quite a drop of db's.

There are lots of other ways, I will do some research and tests and will see what happens in real life.

I run 4.1 avalons in isolated environment so it never was a problem.

 Hydrofluid has a tendancy in the long term to leak, and I suspect the lubricant most "fluid" fans use has issues at the RPM level with foaming and such.

 Ball bearing overall is much superior to any hydrofluid-type sleeve bearing design in fan usage if both are well done designs.


 Some miners have lasted longer than 2 years. Depends on your electric rate, there are places that the S3 is still profitable and might be some modded S1s out there churning away at a profit.



 All of the Bitmain miners I have or have seen pictures of use Delta fans, except the C1. That focused flow fin set is a patented design feature IIRC.

Ouch.

 $1300 PLUS shipping.

 This thing is bloody near a non-starter, it's priced a bit WORSE than the S7 per TH for slightly lower efficiency, if that's going be Avalon's own price.
 Hopefully there's a good chunck of "dealer markup" in that price, it's totally "no chance of RoI" as is unless your electric is VERY cheap.

 (does quick visit to bitcoinwisdom, does standard RoI calculation)

 Yep, it MIGHT achieve RoI. Barely. At 3cents/KWH. NOT including power supply cost or shipping costs.


 So my answer to the original question remains "I won't chose either one as they're both too expensive".

They say they are US seller. I really want Avalon (Canaan Creative) to verify before I would order there.     

I don't think holding off will be a problem at the moment I think they wanted purchase of 10 which means most likely a group buy.  Hopefully it's lowered from 10 once they carry stock.

One of the most interesting things is "Note: Minimum order quantity is currently 10.".  On E-Hash I do not remember 4.1's having a minimum quantity.   I liked not having a min quantity.   

I do think S7 lite if it comes out will go head to head with Avalon 6.  And eventually there should be a few more home miners.  But having more then one company selling gear honestly will help us home/hobby miners. 

In Mr.Lees thread I think he mentioned twords end of month being shipped on his 3PH he talked about... so we could see a big jump if to many sales like this with Avalon.

It sound unusual, and in this post somewho said the miner don't will be black, it will be without painting on it...  ???

Ok all. To clarify everything, I contacted Xianfu to get some updates on the Avalon6 and also to talk about buying chip for Sidehack project. Xiangfu refer me to Sean the CEO of BlockC. SO this is totally legal. BlockC is the official reseller. If you want to check, check on the blog of BlockC, there is some pictures of Sean and Avalon Team together in San Fransisco.

MOQ is 10 because company dont want to manage multiple customer. Doing this will make there lives easier and our more complicated.  :P

Im in direct contact with Sean and Xiangfu if you have any question .  ;)

I will ask about that. Normally Avalon was one of the only company that didnt mine with the gear before sending them. Will check that.

Normally on batches they are plugged in until they sell.  It's the same with Bitmain.  If they don't sell for a while they mine them.

They lose value sitting in a box, some call it "burn ins".  But it's normal to have them ran till sold.

actually since avalon didnt have big volume they didnt needed to mine. They almost build stuff in just in time. But yeah they could mine with it its normal. So they dont lose cash.

It appears to be big volume this time around.  In one thread Mr. Lee said he bought 3PH in Avalon gear.  A few sales like that and it's not low volume.

Will be interesting to see what bitmain does in reaction.

Looks like Black Friday may come early this year for us..  Let the "Price War" begin!
As long as it's the least expensive and quietest I will buy it.  My luck that won't be the
trait of just one miner.

I was just discussing that with another user in PM. I think the problem is that Avalon doesn't really go into "Price wars" they seem to instead sell at a certain price and hold it, to recoup their costs.

Its possible that Bitmain will release a S7 lite at a price to undermine the value of the Avalon6, however i am not sure Avalon will try to keep up, since Bitmain would undoubtedly win either way.

Bitmain and Avalon probably discuss and price fix.
My pure speculation regarding Avalon, but not with Bitmain.

I do hope Avalon makes Bitmain work a little bit at least, come just one good price drop after the initial orders, then bam drop take enough for a couple of days and call shenanigans and mistakes then push price around again.
That would get Bitmain attention.

There is only so much money people are going to spend at current prices, but many more people will take a chance if they see a company with a solid reputation and previous solid products trying to take a chance with them.

This is why you see so many people who still praise Spondoolies. Even though the SP20 was a loser financially it was a huge win with the mining public for the most part. Especially people who can truly appreciate fine engineering.

If the Avalon 6 came out somewhere in between the engineering prowess of the SP20 and the price better than the Bitmain equivalent, or at least matching price, man look at how many people are ready to order. In the long run of the mining landscape this could play out extremely well for Avalon if they are not involved in discussions with bitmain. They could absolutely be neck and neck or even surpass bitmain with the right customer service, a solid product, and reasonable price. Show me tha money!

I don't think Avalon will compete in a price war just from past unless they changed sales tactics.  Which is possible since it seems they are rumored to made a lot for Mr. Lees 3ph cloud he talked about, and I would imagine there are some other data centers.

The one some are saying are the US distributers - http://www.blockc.co/ mention a huge 10 MW center.  So there is a good chance they pump these out.

I do think bitmain will beat their price.  They in past have adjusted to be cheaper then competition, but a lot is unknown like if the new S7 is true.

Yes, I didn't mean Avalon would adjust pricing just that Bitmain may bow to the competition and release a price competitive miner.

Anyone know electric costs in San Francisco area?  Avalon seems to have wised up and got a US
distributor this time finally.  That is what hurt their sales previously with the 4.1 and if I can
remember you couldn't buy them as a single unit.

San Francisco is not going to be one of the cheapest.  I suspect with such a large amount they got a better then average contract though.  10 MW facility gives you a lot of leverage when talking to electric company.

I suspect SF was picked based on location more then the cheapest price. It would most likely be in Washington if they were looking for lowest price alone.

If they were in Washington I'd visit them daily and they'd grow to love me.   :D
Too bad we can't see another $400-$500 miner with the latest tech, I have a hard time
shelling out $1000+ for anything.

what is interesting is the 10 minimum for purchase. So another will have to resell or group buy.

Most likely group buy, as for a re seller to have 10k in one product in-stock that is getting to pretty big re sellers.   Only thing that kinda stinks is that with this most likely no discount for group buy. 

I like when you go through trouble of GB there is a discount or something in it for both sides.

If I was building I'd shoot for 2TH topend and about $400 price tag for a pair of S1-refit boards. That's a good price range for consumer miners.

I know, I think the wait for chips to be supplied to you is driving us all batty!  I am excited for the pods.  But I need another
"Miner Heater" for my house other than my S2 which I will happily send to you when we have the green light.  Pods by Thanksgiving
would be killer.

I think upgrade's are something at this point we wont see much of.  Unless someone like sidehack releases us some great boards.

Bitmain seems to not be to interested in upgrades at this point.  A LOT held onto S2's waiting and waiting on upgrades that never came.   I do like the 400 dollar price that would be very nice.

I don't think any of these companies price their products properly. Why? Cause people used to buy them for 10k+ no questions asked. Now? Everyone is buying out or trying to milk it.

Avalon6 is overpriced. Won't doubt it if the S7 lite price makes people think twice, too.

People accept the 4month ROI. It's easy to price everything accordingly.

Their target market are people with established and profitable rigs looking to upgrade in bulk not people trying to buy one for fun or hobbyist who view this as a lottery attempt. You're better off taking your cash to the actual lottery unless you're shelling out at least 5k.

Your forgetting price of BTC during some of the purchases.  Like when I purchased my dragon at the time I felt i spent a ton on it.... but BTC was worth a good amount so it seemed fair.  But miners were not cheap during start of asics.

It was 3 month ROI on most GPU rigs... and that ended and time is now much much longer to ROI.

Also power has changed it's moving more twords what I call hobby mining.  It's getting more and more where you need a area for miners.  With them getting bigger, louder, and more powerful it's hard to slap one in a room anymore.

Things are changing.  I think hobby miners will do fine for foreseeable future, home miners wanting to put in a room they use going down in numbers.

I would love to see how many people run under 500GH/s today and their actual return compared to the environmental impact.... errr... cost of electricity. As well as the effect on the network hash rate and difficulty. Plus with credit card companies and banks investing? People are banking for a spike they already missed lol

But I'm not an analyst.  I'm just watching and waiting.

 What 4 month RoI?

 Nothing currently on the market will RoI at ALL unless (1) you have very cheap electric, OR (2) Bitcoin price keeps going up as fast or almost as fast as difficulty.

 Given the economic woes in China, I'm actually starting to think (2) might happen for a while.....

Then you are saying 4 months isn't enough to ROI in mining? then maybe 6 months or 7 might? or what do you suggest? now that bitcoin is still going up, now many is buying bitcoin right now what can you say how many months you will gonna ROI now? ???

I think it all comes down to the amount of profit for the maker.  Bigger machine = bigger profit (in most cases).    I personally don't mind loud and powerful since I have a mining area.

Home miners the ones with limited room and limited electricity will be the one's who are hurting for new gear I think.   I don't see many of these being able to be used as a quiet heater in a room.  Just to loud so it's really for a different market.

Personally i will not buy any of these 2, because i don't do mining.
About which one to choose i think for now the Antminer S7.
If you are looking to purchase the Avalon 6 then i think to wait and see the reviews what people think about it.

If you are not mining then why are you here? maybe your still interested about mining, hehe I am not mining too (for now!) just reading thoughts of other miners and planing what to use best, but avalon 6 specs are great still waiting for other comply about it. ;D

When i said i don't mine it means in the present time.
It doesn't mean that i didn't mined in the past, i am here to read and if something is interesting then i would immediately invest.
Mining is profitable if the electricity cost is cheap or free, you have a good budget and have a mining farm.
Both of these 2 types of miners are good, but people should be patient before investing and should wait for the reviews.

Oh, that is why ;D yup and reading here keeps my interest in mining up, thanks for the advice sir I'll keep that in mind unfortunately electricity is expensive here I am searching a place where electricity is free and maybe in the province will do.

About the electricity i think the cheapest price should be in China.
They mostly generate the electricity from hydroelectric power (from water).
And most of mining hardware are produced there, so it would be cheaper to operate there and buying lots of Antminer S7.

Unfortunately I think I lose hope about electricity, hydroelectric power in china well they are amazing that is one point about them, I think in one of our provinces we have electric wind turbine and can generate cheap electricity well I think that the best place to mine here.

Although i agree with your statement on the prices.  Those that bought the miners with btc suffer with the rise in prise.. those that bought with usd are laughing all the way to the bank.(that is the nature and risk of mining) Hell i bought 30 s1 when btc was 650 only to watch it drop all way down to 300 making the s1 not profitable.. had i not mined solo and found 7 blocks they would prolly never roi considering i bought them with cash.  With regards to the lottery, if you live in my state your gonna be surprised when its time to go cash in that ticket. ::)  http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-lottery-lawsuit-met-20150909-story.html  this was the cap at 25k article  and since our lovely govt cant ever get there shit together they have now a month later moved that down to 600$ (yet they continue to sell tickets like nothing is wrong!)  http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-lottery-delayed-payouts-met-20151014-story.html   what i find alarming is they are now expecting the small business to fork over the winnings for the smaller tickets and then those businesses will then have to fight illinois for the back payments.. Could put some small stores in a bind. Not like they give a shit.. but anyway thought id share this:)

Best Regards
d57heinz

China is not only place but it's very popular right now. Part of it is the machines for most part are made there.  So buy a truckload of miners.  I think one of the largest ones is actually not in China but Mongolia if I remember right.

There are a few in  US.  But it's not that common for the super cheap electricity.  Most of US have more normal 10ish or so depends some have under some have higher. I mean block C the new US distributor of avalon picked San Fransisco.

I think where this could really matter is having.  But we really are not sure what having will look like.

Lol yuuuup. Its crazy.

And then people try to sell used equipment for more than original retail. Probably because they bought in bitcoin and can't keep up. Smh...

If the S7 lite is priced at 1k? Sign me up for 5-10 of those babies. That will kill the Avalon and I'm damn certain antminer will still make bank off us. Make it a black Friday sale if they wanna charge 1500 for it cause it's just a little better and people will buy it.

If not? Maybe a Avalon group buy. Negotiate that 900-1k price in a bulk order.

Yeah i do not really understand the pricing scheme. But if you look at Ebay, apparently people are still buying crap, like S1 or USB or old 3J/GH stuff at 0.30$/GH. I'm not sure if its because there's so many desperate/unknowledgeable gamblers that buy all they can find or what...

But other than that, i don't see why people would be buying the Avalon6 at 1300$, the S7 has better efficiency and cheaper $/GH.

And indeed if the S7 lite is indeed a 2 bladed S7, then unless Bitmain crank up the price like crazy, it will leave the Avalon6 in the dust.

I have a love/hate relationship with ebay.  I hate the fees ebay, paypal...etc.  It really does add up.  I have found normally even after all that I get more on used gear there then here on forum.  On forum here a lot want a bargin, so it makes it tough.   Ebay you can sell a good amount higher in some cases.

I have only had one weird one.   I had 2 C1's one worked fully other had some hashing boards that dropped.   I sold working one on ebay... thought I did decent felt good..... but I sold a parts C1 on forum and I made more money parting out C1 then I did for a working one.   Part of it was I had upgraded pump, wire harness, etc.  But the full unit came with it.  It's the only time I have felt like better deal was on forum.

hmmm... interesting thread.

I love my tech. Scouring dealsnow and techbargain was just a hobby even if I had something great already. Even Apple understands, "if I release a new product? Price match the old or even beat it, and and don't try to sell year old (marketplacers) and used tech for more than original retail."

We already know what then S7 lite price is gonna be. 1400. And the Avalon still probably won't sell cause of it.

Bitcoin price spike Last year made a lot of people greedy and desperate. The days of selling overpriced Technology is over.

And amazon\ebay have better prices for some sp20s s3s and s4s. If these two aren't priced right? Going with old tech. I'm not here to lose money. None of us are, but so many here are and ya gotta really wonder why?

Sorry, i don't mean to angrily bash your product even before it came out. I understand that production costs are productions costs and you want to avoid selling at a loss like SP did with the SP20.

I'm just struggling to understand the pricing scheme.

Miner manufactures just sell the rigs at the highest price which can make most of the money.

In China, a fair price for this stage of instock rigs (~0.25-0.3W/Ghs) is ~ 2200RMB/Ths, it's about 345$/Ths. exclude of shipping. By this price, you can sell as many as you want of them. So...what can I say...

ng

QUESTION  can this be down clocked and under volted like the 4.1?

downclock: certainly

voltage: this is a string design...

I see, thanks for your replies, it does make sense, since in the end, it does not matter what is profitable to me, its about whats profitable for others. Thus it make sense for the miners to be so expensive if in China they can be bought out easily at 345$/TH/s.

For your second replies, you seem to mean it is not very prone to being undervolted because it is a string design. However it is possible to down volt the S5 by using 9-11v PSU's.

Is it simply not supported by the chips?

Lol yup.

I'm young, but I'm a chemical engineer and have worked a lot of shitty sales. High ticket 2k + machines. I've never seen a true cost to manufacture over 20%. Ever. Think Kirby vacuums. Fitness machines. Printers. Heck cars. It's nothing new. Its like that on every industry but in this one it's worse. I hope antminer reads this, too.

These machines sound juicy. Potential game changers for the little guy at home, but how the market is turning? People will be in the marketplace in a few months trying to sell them used at retail too lol

In China, I think most of the buyers now have nearly free electricity. So they can have profit much easier. I think this is why mining rigs' price are higher than you guys think.

About under voltage, the marking of "11.8-12.2V" means this miner will have a 3.65T (+- 10%) of the performance, we test it under this voltage. You can run it under a 11V PSU, and will get a better efficiency performance but slower speed. The hardware and software is fully support this case. but I think the lowest voltage is ~10V.


you can you up, no can no bb.
ng

Thanks for the reply. Such mean of undervolting is going to be of great interest for certain people.

It means that when your hardware will be "obsolete" in the future, when new gen miners do under 0.1J-0.14/GH, it will be possible to continue using the Avalon6 for some while longer at good profitability.

Therefore your Avalon6 gain a bit more value in the eyes of the "min/maxers" of Bitcoin mining. :)

That is excellent that it can be underclocked & undervolted. Do you have a table of Clock Frequency, Supply Voltage, TH/s & J/GH ?

Rich

So here is the real problem.

I only have a very limited test machines in hand, will try to answer this in the near future.

But every machines are different. will have more and more performance difference when the voltage going down...

ng

I appreciate that undervolting / underclocking will have variable results across machines. However it would be very useful to have an indication as to what is possible?


Thank You

Rich

The difference maybe up to 50%....

Also, I think the "tweak" of Avalon6 will be extremely easy. set a top frequency, set a target temperature, finish. The machine will find a best frequency and fan speed by your setting.

The 4.1 was really amazing on it's range of normal to underclock.  I really would love to see one underclocked.   

If the Avalon 6 does the same it would be interesting to see by how much it beat's a S7.  I would love to see some numbers there on watts used in underclock.

Thats a pretty handy feature, "auto" though some people prefer to handle that manually, it will probably be very useful during the summer heat.

And a up to 50% difference possible in efficiency would be excellent. That is great news and definitively a upside to going with the Avalon6. I'm sure I or RichBC will be looking forward having a unit in hand to test this.

Okay I own this psu




https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/rsp1500.pdf


it goes as high as 13.5 volts or as low as 10 volts   it is 87%  so just about a gold

if it can run your machine at 10 volts  and say  3000gh or 2800 gh  using  600 to 700 watts your machine is worth more to most usa buyers.


I can run a full set of tests for you.

 Just GET ME  an avalon 6.

😇 I'll probably get one of each. Bitcoin mining seems like an interesting endeavor

Mr. Lee in his thread claimed he was getting 3PH shipped out pretty soon.  So makes me wonder on that as-well if limited on test machines:

With an 18-chip string, Avalon estimates about 0.26W/GH chip-level and BM1385 0.22W/GH chip-level at 0.67V
BM1385 estimates 0.18W/GH at 0.6V, which translates to 10.8V in; that's about a 20% reduction. If we can see about 30% reduction at 560mV that's around 0.15-0.16W/GH at 560mV (10V in); if the Avalon curve has a similar shape but shifted to slightly higher power (0.26/0.22) at 560mV you'd see around 0.18W/GH chip-level.

Assuming you can still run half the stock frequency (around 51GH per ASIC) at that voltage, you'd see about 25GH and around 4.5W per ASIC, for 1.8TH and under 350W machine-level with 10V rails. I'd be surprised to see under 700W for 3TH off that machine but I could be wrong.

S7 should be capable of it if run below 11V

I'd really like to see a 3218 datasheet, especially with an efficiency curve. I don't know that Avalon puts efficiency data in the sheets though.

but for the sake of argument lets say you do 1.8th  using 375 watts  my psu could drive 2 avalon 6's  easy  giving me 3.6th and 750 watts

so while the avalon 6 does not look great at stock numbers merely good.

  it looks great as an underclock undervolt monster.

reminds me of undervolt underclock of gpu's back in 2011 and 2012

I want these machines.

BTW the s-7 does not allow under volt below 11.7 volts now that was with the batch 1 controller maybe the batch 2 controller or the batch 3 controller allows for it.

the later s-5's allowed for undervolt

If you get 1.8 for 375 that would be amazing.  The 4.1's were monsters as you put it on underclocking.  If the Avalon 6 can do this  it will be hard to beat.

I mean even at having ... unless something huge changes 1.8 for 375 I think will make it still a valid in many places... which is huge.  So I'm excited to see it.

The Avalon6 will have much better downvolting capabilities here, as we were told some hours ago. But it is going to need adjustable PSU or buck converter. I'm not sure how much efficiency we'll be able to gain but just down clocking. Maybe not much at all, but we'll see.

Yeah all my numbers are pure speculation, and as mentioned, it'll require special PSU hardware to get those voltages at any decentc current and efficiency.

could be right up your alley.

On 4.1 it was a good amount.  So that is what i am hoping for.   I love my 4.1's and still run them today.

If Avalon 6 has same capability as them I will love it and want one at least.  Depends on how much that underclock is.  The insider seemed to make it sound like it has a good capability on it.

he said it was string which means you need a psu that provides 9-13 volts or 10 -13 volts
there are not many but they do exist.

https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/rsp1500.pdf --- I have this  should do 2 units each at 375 watt 1.8th

https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/hrp600.pdf  ---- I have this should do 1 units at 375 watts 1.8th

https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/hlg600h.pdf ---- I don't have this. I would like to think it runs 1 unit at 375 watts 1.8th

I am basing on guesses 0 facts

 I am willing to get 1 avalon 6 to test on the above 2 psu's that I have.  As .18 to .22 watts are possible.

There are actually quite a few "variable 12V" power supplies around, but very few of them are anywhere near Gold efficiency.

 The ability to undervolt this design would make it noticeably more viable long-term, especially after the block reward halfing puts a serious hammer on profitability for ALL miners and renders most of them unprofitable at any electric price greater than "free" - but the only price I've seen linked for it still makes it unviable unless you have VERY VERY cheap electric.

 Speculation on actual numbers though is problematic 'till someone actually TESTS the thing.

 Also, the only quoted price to date has changed to $1400 - which makes this thing even LESS likely to RoI, unless you believe the current surge in Bitcoin pricing is going to turn stable (I do not, having done a bit more digging into that MMM scheme).

I suspect that there will be SOME sales of this machine just because Bitmain availability on S7s has been "sold out" for most or all of the last 2 weeks, and looks likely to stay that way for a bit.

True I can see a 10 piece group buy as the minimum. If we knew it did 10 volts and say 1.8th at 350-375 watts.

I wish they would send me a test model. I would pay for it  and test for the rest of us.

Depending on price and date I could be interested in a GB.   I really want a Avalon 6 to play with. I have to be able to justify it though.

I'm hoping we see more about it the closer it get's to official release.   The underclocking is what I really want to see.

yeah price is key...keep looking ...heard a group buy price (plus 50) of 1350 which seems high..but not sure how legit it would be or even close for 1 unit

(sits on hands)

prob won't buy anyway...but fun to watch from the sidelines :) (13c kwh here would have to be a hell of a deal ) :)


edit: my guess is 1600 usd for individual unit....

kilo17 's 25 pieces come in this Friday  I hope.
I will post here and on the other thread. When they do.

The group buy holds some promise but I have a lot of hosted gear.  I don't want too much more gear hosted.

ZoomHash has them for $1449.99 shipping next week.

Isn't Zoomhash currently at the center of a lot of legal and business drama?

At their checkout, you can use a credit card or Paypal. I guess this would be enough protection. ???

I have never had an issue ordering from them.

My only issues with Zoomhash are that their warrentees tend to be crazy-short, and they tend to be pricey....

They sold me five - six k in gear.  Some sales were good.

I am waiting for some info from kilo17 I may end up getting two or three from him.

$50 or some such - like I said, pricey.

I had a commitment from ZH to buy a large amount of hardware from them and arrange shipping myself (since I'm in Canada).  After making arrangements with a freight company, they backed out of the agreed upon price, 3 times at 3 different increasing prices...  Left a bad taste in my mouth, especially after the person I called on the phone to bring it up with essentially laughed at me saying oh well, we still sold them.

I've ordered a used S3+ from them that had a bad board within a month, and they shipped me a new one free of charge. So far it looks like the easiest option to purchase 1 miner, other than a group buy.  I'm still holding on to my 4.1's though until it is proven what the noise level is on the 6.

I bit the big one and bought 2 of the Avalon 6's.  Really hoping they ship this week as promised.

Would also really appreciate an update as soon as you get them in regards to the sound output, is there any information out there regarding the dB these output?

As to sound, I've heard "Somewhere between an S3 and an S5 for loudness". Take that for what it's worth.

Just got a note from ZoomHash that my 6's have shipped!!

So...Is ZH the best place to buy a single avalon 6?

seems like you loose factory warranty?
Could be a downfall if this is so. ...

Actually Avalon is a lot nicer then bitmain on their warranty.  Bitmain a sale through 3rd party kills warranty.

Here is from blockc -

4. Warranty Registration and Transferability:

A. If still within the Warranty Period, Avalon Manufacturer’s Warranty will transfer to the buyer, upon equipment resale provided that the buyer contacts Avalon or BlockC.co to register as the new equipment owner.
B. In order to receive Manufacturer’s Warranty coverage, you must notify Reseller with your contact information, the equipment you are operating, and a description of your operating environment.

So just make sure to contact when buying a machine is how I read it.  I imagine you would need order number (proves it's still in warranty) and other info from original buyer, but most I think would be ok giving it i they are selling you a unit.

I am liking the look of the Avalon 6. I guess this is old news, but looks to be 2 hash boards, each having an 18 chip, 2 chips / node string, so 36 chips / board, 72 chips total.

http://www.slotforum.com/forums/uploads/1447861465/gallery_2150_2322_12957.jpg

http://www.slotforum.com/forums/uploads/1447861465/gallery_2150_2322_37195.jpg

For some reason websites seem to be saying 80 chips, also several report the GH/s at 3.5TH wheras I think it is 3.65GH/s?

Does anyone know if these guys are ok? http://asicminer-shop.de/Avalon-6-35-TH-s_1 All looks and sounds legit, but you never know?

Not bothered about noise but if someone can confirm to what degree these can be undervolted / underclocked I might just go for one?  :)


Rich

  You can ask from the owner

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=23810

We just got our Avalon 6.
https://i.imgur.com/pf7fIek.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8usoeuz.jpg

Nice eric@haobtc!  Ya'll just keep expanding!  Will like to see once you have all of these A6 up, and running.

Still running as many S3's, or upgrading to more efficient hardware?

I am a bitmain fan so i have to go with the S7. However the avalon looks very nice. I think I will buy just one for testing purposes.

It's not good to depend on 1 party.

it is good to have 2 or more s-7's

along with 2 or more Avalon 6's

that is assuming you can provide 4400 watts and cooling.

The pdu in my garage can do 30 amps derate to 24 for safety .

24 x 240 volts = 5760 watts.

I can do 3 s-7s and 2 avalon 6's   pull 5600 watts.

May be too hot.

It is coming from the USA.

Warranty is from the manufacturer at 90 days.

I'm going with a few S7s. The main things that kill it for the Avalon 6 are:

1.) It requires a RasPi controller.

2.) It uses more power than an S7.

3.) You need more physical units to get the same hashrate.

4.) It costs more per Ghs than an S7.

5.) Avalon did me dirty on delivery and cost me 10-100Btc back in 2013.

6.) Bitmain has always taken care of me in every way.

I really don't see why I would be better off splitting mt order between two companies when my S7s have been all running flawlessly for over a month now and have already returned about 1.5BTC each. That's about 25%-30% of what I paid made back already. If I had ordered Avalons I'd still be at square 1, with a 10% diff increase taking a huge chunk of my ROI yesterday to boot.

Some of your things are just wrong.  The Raspberry PI controller is a pro... most would agree with this.  If your controller bricks or goes don a RPI is easy to get back up or get a new one quick.  S7 you need a custom controller board. So Avalon wins with using RPI.

It's actually pretty close as far as efficiency to S7, neither are really that far from other.   And Avalon has been able to be overclocked to 4T, we still have not seen a underclock yet but Phil is trying a few things to get one. 

Also consider it only takes 4 PCI-e cables so I was able to use a ATX psu I had sitting here already ROIed on.  On S7 the 10 PCIe cables makes psu selection much smaller.  I think Avalon wins on number of PCIe cables as it opens door for many more PSU's.



I think yours all comes down to no 5 on your list.  And I can't blame you if your mad over losing BTC back then.  But the company is now Canaan-Creative not avalon making the miner, and they got rid of some of the top level people.

On this everyone is welcome to their own opinion. I have dealt with them on 4.1's and it went good.  And on Avalon6 dealt with BlockC and it went good.  So I have no big complaints.

But all my personal opinion I could be wrong if others don't agree with me.

I have seen in another thread that the S6's run at 74 degrees, that seems a bit hot.  Mine will be in tomorrow, can any others report what temps they are running at?

There is no such thing as a S6 :).   I'm guessing you mean Avalon 6?

I suspect this debate has some way to run. If for no other reason because the S7 is still evolving  :) and the Avalon6 is still very new.  We do not yet know the detail of the 135 Chip S7 changes or a later release of A6 firmware. Both have yet to show their true colours in the Undervolt Underclock stakes, which for me will be very important.

A few thoughts, questions & comments from someone who has neither at the moment.

I like the simplicity of the S7 built in controller, but did load the Avalon Code into an RPi this Morning and it looked very similar. I see the argument about the S7 controller going down but surely there must be an interface board of some Sort in the A6 to go wrong?

Have seen the comments on the A6 temperature and agree that being in the 70's does seem very hot / hotter than I have chosen to run a miner. Is this the set / design temperature or is it a consequence of people turning the fan down?

I much prefer the rear connections & 4PCI-e of the A6, makes the S7 look a mess. I also prefer the "conventional" single plate heatsink over the sometimes poorly stuck mini heatsinks in the S7.

So for me at the moment too close to call


Rich

I agree it's early that is part of why I mention I'm still testing in my review thread.  There are still a lot of possibilities.  And a lot of people do have a favorite mining company and get use to it's software, I can understand this.    I just personally enjoy trying multiple companies it's part of the fun for me.

As far as controller Avalon 6 will win with RPI.  I truly wish bitmain would use RPI instead of custom controller.  If you get a bad flash or electricity outage, internet outage, etc.   The S7 might be a brick till replacement.  As with the Avalon 6 I have RPI's in my project area I can go grab one.  So it hands down will win on controller.  I will be honest I hope one day bitmain uses RPI instead of custom and this becomes a moot point.

As far as you mentioning a boards within the miner I'm sure there are some custom boards that could bring it down and need a new part.  No miner is 100 percent unstoppable that is part of reason of warranty is to test out miner and make sure it's not a dud.  But a board within it I see as different part then controller. 

I have only bricked one bitmain controller but it was not fun and enough to make me like RPI option.  So I could be jaded from my experience of bricking a S3.

I assume you are talking about my statement.  Also, note that was with a manual fan setting that also reduces the overall hashrate.  If you want to get the 3.5TH/s with the current firmware, you will be looking at a 79 degree temperature.  If that makes you uncomfortable (like it did me) then you will probably be looking at closer to a 3.2TH/s miner and you should use that for your calculations.

However, it is also important to note that these are brand new and a new firmware is scheduled to be released to address these issues.  I am anxiously awaiting that firmware update and will do a review once it has been released.

I chose the Avalon over the Antminer due to the noise level.   I'm getting about 3.3TH with EVGA G2 1300watt PSU.  I hear you can get 3.7-4TH using higher voltage Server PSU.   The Avalon 6 in my garage at 3200RPM is silent thru the door and not ridiculously loud like the Antminer S7.   Noise is a major concern for home miners.   The PI Controller is also very nice as it allow me to just do the configuration just once and only need 1 IP address / network cable for the entire daisy chained group of Avalons.  Very happy with my purchase and I'm actually going to order another 1 which will help keep my living room warm for the winter.  It only have 1 FAN vs 2 on the AntMiner S7 hence why it's so much quieter and I can use ATX PSU which is silent vs the Bitmain 1600W PSU which is quite loud.  Another awesome thing is that it only require 4 PCI-E connection vs 10.

But the Avalon 6 is so expensive, i'd think you'd be better off getting a S7, dropping the fan speed to 20% and underclocking, for less noise, more hash, better efficiency, better price?

At this point, I'm still choosing "neither", as RoI is still VERY problematic at anything over 5cent/KWH power rates.

 I'm hoping the B-Eleven or whatever Innosilicon comes out with ignites some price competition, but it's starting to look like that will happen too late to matter.

Damn kill the dream (13c kwh)


Also knc has another 20mw BTC data hall going up in a few months (probably 2-3)



http://myinforms.com/en-us/a/20501974-bitcoin-miner-knc-is-planning-another-four-week-datacenter-build-out/ (http://myinforms.com/en-us/a/20501974-bitcoin-miner-knc-is-planning-another-four-week-datacenter-build-out/)

Bitfury says it has a 40mw data hall going up NEXT WEEK

http://businesswireindia.com/news/news-details/bitfury-launch-energy-efficient-immersion-cooling-data-center/46537 (http://businesswireindia.com/news/news-details/bitfury-launch-energy-efficient-immersion-cooling-data-center/46537)

fun times for difficulty..I just can see getting an Avalon 6 at the price and or with my 13c kwh ...add this other stuff ...very daunting indeed :(

More tradeoff considerations:

1) For the home miner with say, less than 4 units, reliability has to be a major consideration. A dead unit or bad card and there goes any hope of ROI.

2) As mentioned in the main S7 thread, BITMAIN is now charging 3.1 BTC for a batch 8 S7. Very curious language used in the description: "4.73th/s is the final version of S7 which is more stable."

I think it means what it says, which I interpret as. After much messing about they have finally settled on the 135 Chip System, 15 Node string and I am still assuming a Buck Converter such that they are not dependant on such a tight spec for the PSU? Whether they have been selecting BM1385 or not and if that is in any way a factor going forward I do not know?


Rich

That price sound more reasonable, still would not be a sufficient enough decrease, if the difficulty keep climbing like this.

Also i don't suppose having a buck converter would mean working software side volt control?

I'm looking into lee's latest group buy of $1150 for the last batch S7 (4.73 Th/s), but it launching Jan 27th, 2016 has me a little worried what the difficulty will do by then.

Both look very good. But getting used to bitmain makes me go to choose the antminer s7. But i would like to try the avalon too. Both asics are priced ok, in perception of the current bitcoin price. So yes it is a nice invemestment.

The downfall offcourse is the difficulty which is sky rocketing.. Best to wait for the next gen. miners.

Touche, the current miners won't earn enough to get a decent ROI. The difficulty is just increasing too much which makes the current batch of miners not profitable.
I think bitmain will launch a new miner around feb/march. Till then keep your bitcoins as bitcoins, as in don't spend them on these asics.

So basically, a Smart strategy;

Step one is "Wait 1-2 Months for difficulty to stabilize". Step two is "Buy the S7's Americans and CIE when they panic sell because they can no longer ROI before halving. At half price, of course."

He's right. Right now is the best time to sell miners since the price is increasing, Bitcoin is making the news, everybody wants to print money.

The best time to buy is when difficulty is taking 25% jumps every 2 weeks and price is crashing and everybody is panicking. I got some good deals on miners this way.

 At this point I'm not betting on diffuculty stabilizing in 2 months. Or 3. Perhaps in 4.

 I don't see any chance of the current generation (S7. Avalon 6, SP50) achieving a positive RoI unless you have VERY VERY cheap electric - and I'm starting to wonder if you'll be able to RoI those machines on 3cent/KWH electric.


 The rumblings are underfoot, A3 is comming and it looks like it's going to be the REAL game-changer for folks not running sub-20NM BitFury or KnC farms....

Not at all my specialist subject but I think it will need Full Custom 14nm to be a Game Changer. I do not think Standard Cell or Semi Custom is not going to get there? What have you heard on A3, seems to have been very quiet?

Would be interesting to know exactly what BW, KNC, BitFury and Innosilicon are using?  :)

Rich

It is definitely looking tough for the foreseable future for the S7, and Avalon 6 but a lot can happen as we know with bitcoin.  Even if the difficulty keeps jumping 7-8% a period the price could keep us up with that long enough for this equipment to ROI by climing to $600+.  It is a big if, but it isn't any different than it has always been when mining. 

Innosilicon has ANNOUNCED full custom 14nm for their A4 Scrypt chip.
They haven't said one way or the other on the A3 - but I don't see ANY reason for it to be anything BUT full-custom as SHA256 is a simpler algorythm easier to design for.

 Note that they have indicated that they intend to bring the A3 and the A4 to market at the same time.

 Also note that their "search for investors" for the A4 seems to be more about risk management than anything - they're NOT cash-short after all the A1/A2 sales they've made, and they brought both of THOSE chips to market with no "pre-orders" or outside investors.


 Given the next diff increase is looking likely to just miss 20%, and that price has NOT been keeping pace since the initial surge (we're still not back up to that first peak despite the recent second surge, though might get there a lot sooner than I think)....



 Up side - price keeps going up even close to diff increases, I might actually achieve RoI on my S5s and SP20 after all. 8-)

I have not been able to keep up with Innosilicone.  Have they shown a prototype or done a tapeout or anything?  Or are chips still being in R/D not working up to spec.

I think they announced way to early about it.  It just seems like a long time since they did, and they have produced  0 of them.

What is avalon 6 nww price now in usd

seems around 4 btc, so $1700, but i guess you cna find at lower price if you buy it used on the market or on ebay

Before three months I can buy in local market for almost 300 usd here in china
Now I can find it 1500 usd :(


I will think about other miners ...similar miners lab or yesminer

When price of BTC value goes up gear goes up to.  Difficulty can effect it to... which this one will hurt.

But expect miners to cost now more then 230 days.  BTC just is worth almost double of what it was for a decent amount of time.

no this is wrong, if btc value goes up the value of the gear goes down in btc, because it goes down in usd

in fact now the s7 on hashnest cost less than 5 btc, when before it was 7 btc

I wish them luck selling them at that price.  They probably still have earlier batches.

I might not have done a good job on being clear.  I mean value goes up (IE USD value).  If BTC goes up old gear tends to go up in value.  Yes less btc in value, but more usd.

But if difficulty does that..... it could negate the fact of value of btc.  So we might not see big jump on old gear.

Before btc was 200 usd I cant find miners in china ....now when btc high again then can find too much .... I think seller will hold selling s7 when btc down

Where were you looking at for miners?  In china even during 200 day's you should have found a TON of miners.  A decent amount of the companies are there.... so it is not hard.

What site or where were you looking?  I've never heard of someone in China having trouble finding miners.

   


Sure www.taobao.com
This can trust

Not have big hash miners . The best here is s7


I want similar yesminer or miner labs very high hash

hope you did not buy a 'yesminer' that is a scam.........see the threads on it on

www.litecointalk.org (http://www.litecointalk.org)

no release to 3rd party testers.....(for example doggie on bitcointalk.org and others) shady video....etc etc

anyway be warned probably sfards (if you can find one) avalon bitmain are the only ones shipping now of any real note trustworthy wise as to ROI wise doubtful on any!

This avalon ..S7 now not profitable... you see difficulty is very high now .... and continue to be more and more high .... I think three month later can't pay avalon electricity ....


Yesminer they are scam .... ok
What about minerslab ? Also scam ?

I never heard of it and no one ever made a post about receiving one in the hardware section, so probably. The price look less scammy, but the specs looks totally scammy. Its all rendered images and different products use the same picture.

The efficiency is to be doubted. I'm pretty sure it exist right now, but not in public/production stage right now. (under 0.1J/W)

I'd stay away. Right now there's only the Avalon6 and the S7. And if a couple of diff bump down the road, will make you unable to ROI the Avalon, then you're definitively mining at an electricity rate that you should not be mining on.

Honestly that is a crap site.  Last I heard of them was Itunes at one point they were FULL of carded Itunes cards.  It's like a ebay but less checks as far as legit items, unless that taobao.com has changed.

I would not order a miner there.  It is geared 100 percent for China market though.   Still lot better sites to order direct from like bitmain or ehash (Avalon).  They are legit China sellers.

That may be the case for you with your electricity costs.  So, you may want to say, "I" may not be able to pay electricity costs to cover the costs of mining -OR- "This avalon ...S7 now not profitable for ME."

Judging from your local time, looks like you live somewhere in Europe possibly.  So, I imagine your power cost is much higher than many who live in the US.

Minerslab.com
Very high hash rate

Also have youtube video


I cant find in china yet .... I find in Malaysia from alibaba.com

I very much doubt some unknown ASIC maker is making better ASIC than the big ones that spend insane amount of cash on R&D. I'd be very happy if you could prove otherwise, but i'm pretty sure that no matter the retailer, Smart miners are non existant and only a tool for scamming.

Have not bought any of the current and I do not intend to unless prices come down for equipment and the energy use comes down to. Maybe in the future after halving some massive improvements come to the asic world and provide a lot more effective units.

The current S7 price is great, asking for cheaper would be a bit wishful thinking. At the moment i would ROI one in 4 months, that is pretty great. Having even more efficient hardware would not make mining more profitable at all.

If they come up with 0.01J/GH unit, then everyone will have those, and your profit/watt will be about the same as now.

Right now, the Avalon6 is a great unit, but the price is not keeping up, so this show that you can't really expect things to suddenly be super cheap, affordable and great return for you but not be for big operations that pay 10 time less for electricity than you and get cheaper deployment cost/GH than you.

Your btc profitability is pretty much forever locked to a range, based on your electricity rate/what deal for cheap hosting you can find.

I'm not sure if 100 percent true.  Some places have such low prices of electricity they can run for a suprising amount of time.  A lot of A1's are still profitable in some China ones... I think they have yet to drop off.  Where I could not run a A1 with much/any profit.

Also we have no idea of cost on it or value of BTC.  I'm hoping BTC value goes up some between now and then but we have no idea how much, and if it will only speculation.

I would pick........

A S7....
CUZ I CAN  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Out of curosity when you say you pick S7 how are you showing that?  Have you ordered a lot of them?

That is kinda what I wondered today if this is just choosing without ordering... it really does not count for much.  But if it is choosing by ordering that shows something.

After much debate I went in with 3 S7.  I want to own the Avalon 6 badly for whatever reason, but it's price point really doesn't make sense for me if I am going to host it somewhere and its main advantage is sound.

Indeed, now with the coupon, S7's are breaking under 1000$, meanwhile the Avalon 6 is still super expensive and it's been slower and less efficient than the S7 from the start.

Make more sense to just mod your S7 for sounds instead, if you're ready to pay a premium for silent miners.

the last batch of s7 is at the same efficiency but the price...
i would still like to own an avalon 6

Im more looking for the next bitfury gear  ;D

What's the decibels on the Avalon 6? Apologies if it has been posted somewhere else..

i prefer the sp50 downclocked to about 9kw  ;D

If only we could buy 1 unit. That could be really nice! But no MOQ 10  :-\

There is something about Innosilicon that doesn't quite make sense. Why go public and push the A4 chip when LTC mining is a much smaller market. Really what is the future of LTC?

As there is pretty much 0 compitation.  SFARDS has a chip but did mostly internal things.  If A4 get's made chances are it lasts as most current chip for a while.  They can mine LTC internally for cheap.

And set their price as no competition on consumer versions using it.  So chances are A4 is a little more long term.  But again I don't think they even have shown a prototype or anything so we really don't know how close or far away they are.  They announced really early.

I agree that the A4 makes no sense at all. They probably decided to make it when litecoin had a little pump a while back to 6$ or so. Bet they regret that, now.

They're making the A3 also, though, right? That's their new SHA256 chip. I really hope they and their partners come out swinging at bitmain.

They said they were making both which does seem kinda crazy to R/D 2 chip's at the same time.   They were HUGE on selling A1 chips, if they are as good with A3's they could be a decent force.  Also something unique is they tend to sell chips so we could see multiple companies sell A3 machines if they stick with old model of sell.

I have kinda lost a little hope as they announced it so long ago.  Just seems like it's been quite a while.  But I hope they do make it even though they seem to be pretty quiet.

This might also indicate that for a chip house like Innosilicon, to get to first mining chip prototype, costs <$100k?

It's hard to say on cost with being a private company we will never know this most likely.  Chip making is pretty secret, I'm surprised they mentioned it so early. 

I imagine they are pretty busy if truly doing 2 chips at once.  I think A3 will be main focus and released before A4, but that is speculation.  They made a lot of money from early on so it's hard to say what their budget is on chip R/D.

The current choice of a basic miner should be S7 based on many things like price of the machine, BTC2.8 (BTC2.4 if one goes for 9th Batch), whereas one needs to pay >BTC3 which makes no sense as it consumes more electricity than S7 and produces lesser results...

Its quiet and much better build quality, but yeah. ASIC mining is pretty much all about ROI, so i can't say Avalon's model is very good to the small miner. Apparently you get much better prices if you buy in bulk, which is not really the case with the few cents saving per unit offer of Bitmain's.

Correct this is why I would choose a S7 and not the Avalon.
They are both great asic miners, but in terms of getting your ROI asap, which is very important now the difficulty is finding new highs every day, the Antminers S7 is the winner.

I prefer Antminer s7 on Avalon 6.
The new Antminer S7 Plus is much more efficient.

There's not a S7+ version, am i misunderstanding?

And now the latest batches of S7's have the same efficiency as the Avalon6, so not the only reason to stick with S7 is the GH/$, since the Avalon6 has a much better build quality.

No misunderstanding there is not a S7+.  It would not suprise me if they do have one day... but no sign of it yet.   Right now they have batch 9 that is cheaper so they won't do any change before that goes to sale.   

If they were going to change product it would be after then.  But I'm not sure they might milk current design a few more batches.  They have a design ow with less chips and high freq.  Which should mean more profit for them.   

also i doubt the plus version is much more efficient, usually they have a slightly more efficiency, and a much better hashrate

they rely on having a bulky miners with the plus version than anything else, look at the s5+ as an example, which is more efficient only because there is downvolt...

the only + that has been out that has been bulky is the s5+ .... s3+ was the exact same size and s4+ was slightly smaller then the regular s4

with bulky i mean that it deliver more hash, without having a better efficiency, if not for some downvolting or downclocking, which can be done manually with the non"+" version

Gotcha!! my misunderstanding! but ya i agree then lol expecially s3+ just had a diff firmware and sticker that said s3+ lol

Can we please stay on-topic?

You are right, there ain't any S7+ version...
The latest batches of S7 are cheaper, and they are more efficient than Avalon 6 in terms of Hash rates, while Avalon gives you 3.86 TH/s, S7 gives you up to 4.75 TH/s which is way better than Avalon...
What will you do with the build quality since you are going to get your ROI in less time with S7???
And both are machines, so nothing comes with a guarantee here (in few means)...

The avalon 6 comes at 3.5th/s (thats hoping you have a warm room since they run lower in the cold) and the S7 is 4.8th/s. You can get the S7 plus shipping below $1100 currently. You can ONLY get the Avalon for $1112 in the current group buy and living in the US.

The better deal is the S7. People assumed the Avalon 6 would be able to flex by changing the volts but has not been the case at all.

I'm getting some some used A6, it came down a bit more expensive than S7 B9 per GH, but i will get them 2 weeks before, which will get me 14.5% to ROI. Getting them "now" will actually bridge the gap between A6 (getting them NOW) and S7, getting them in 2 to 3 maybe 4 weeks.

The time when you get the miners is important too.

You can order an S7 Batch 9 with shipping and import fees that will likely cost about $1150 and it isn't shipping for several weeks.  A better comparison would be the Batch 8 which will run you close to $1300 shipped with import fees and ships now.  

As for overclocking the Avalon.  I get 3.8-4 Th at 12.2-12.4 volts all day long.  

Not to mention the USA warranty - I had 1 Avalon6 replaced and it was as simple as calling them and sending it to California.  Try that with Bitmain.  I would also bet that the Batch 8 and 9 S7 have a much higher failure rate than the Avalon6.

Not to mention I get the Avalon6 in 2-3 days while people wait on an S7 for weeks.  I make up the difference by the time yours arrives.

USA there is no import fees which reduces the cost. Also long term, 1 th/s more per miner will out perform avalon 6 even getting them 2 weeks earlier.

I beg to differ: check the link below and see the $800 charge for import fees/duties etc.  I can supply a bunch more of those links if necessary. 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1165628.msg13432585#msg13432585

Also, if you are counting on the Batch 9 getting here in 2 weeks, good luck.  If not then you are paying for what the s7 would mine for the Batch 8

You can call UPS and make arrangements for them to call you from now on ANYTIME you have a shipment coming in from outside the U.S.  Also, I have edited my address on BITMAIN's website in my account to include the following:  HST CODE 8471.41.0150  That is actually part of my address now to avoid this occurring again in the future.

I recommend everyone do the same thing in their BITMAIN account:

https://i.imgur.com/KlFh1Yq.png

Not sure you understand. We do not pay import (i.e. VAT, etc) taxes in the U.S. for bitmain's products. Also, batch 9 has shipped already for some.

You need to look at that link the other member provided.  THAT WAS ME WHO WAS CHARGED ALMOST $900 USD in tariff charges for the wrong HST CODE applied by my carrier.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1165628.msg13432585#msg13432585 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1165628.msg13432585#msg13432585)

I recommend doing the following as well when you place the order:

After you have chosen a carrier [I chose UPS as an example] here is where I was talking about adding a note for delivery with the same HST CODE I mentioned above  "HST CODE: 8471.41.0150":  You can even go as far as to be more detailed in that NOTE to the carrier for delivery by stating the following:

8471.41.0150

Which is:

8471
Automatic data processing machines and units thereof; magnetic or optical readers, machines for transcribing data onto data media in coded form and machines for processing such data, not elsewhere specified or included.

41
Comprising in the same housing at least a central processing unit and an input and output unit, whether or not combined.

50
Other

https://i.imgur.com/SGPXaCT.png

rockyforever might understand better if he gets an $800 bill upon delivery.  Dmwardjr IS IN THE UNITED STATES and DID get a BIG ASS BILL.

Certainly did.  Otherwise, I would not have taken the time to post all of the recommendations on ways to POSSIBLY avoid having the wrong HST CODE applied to your shipment that can result in a tariff charge.

David

Not sure your point. U.S. does not have tariffs or import fees. The bill was due to clerical error and wrong HST posted on shipping documents. So me receiving a BIG ASS BILL means I now pay a tariff in the U.S. Kilo? So maybe I should contact customs to let them know I didn't pay a BIG ASS BILL for my S7s?

Again your point?

UPS put a wrong HST code on my last S7 and sent me a bill for $67. I just called the number on the bill and told them it's a data processor, the rep took care of the bill right there and then and sent me an email confirmation within 30 mins.

Exactly, it was a mistake and fixed (just like Dmwardjr is going through). Just because you receive a bill on shipping from outside the U.S. doesn't now mean tariffs now exist in the U.S. as kilo was trying to state.

Thanks for sharing.  I think the reason why they are making me go through more red tape and not as willing to do that quick of a refund is the dollar amount.  Which pisses me off...  THEIR employee makes a mistake to cost me a lot of money and they [A multi billion dollar company] cannot give me a proper refund without a hassle.  I'm using FedEx from now on until I hear I have a refund.  If I don't get a refund, I will never use UPS again.

I use fedex because it is cheaper shipping by at least 10$ and always smooth deliver. I know it depends on location whether UPS or fedex is cheaper for the individual.

I sent an email to UPS late last night basically telling them I should not be responsible to pay for a mistake made by one of their employees.  I also told them I'm using another carrier until and/or unless they make the proper refund I am due for their tariff mistake.

They responded with the following reply:

---------------------------------------------

David
 
I am writing regarding the filing of the Post Entry claim that we have in our office. We will be filing this within the next couple of weeks to CBP and at that time we will credit your account. Unfortunately, we cannot file until the 15th business day after the month in which it was entered based on CBP guidelines
 
Walt is sending a notice to accounting to let them know the entry is in dispute, although you may get another bill from UPS you can short pay the bill by 780.09 and we will adjust that amount once the claim is filed…it looks like you will owe 109.54 for Customs Merchandise Processing fee and disbursement fee. The duty amount will be in dispute
 
I have also asked my Philadelphia partners to reach out to you regarding future shipments and how you want them processed.
 
Please let me know if you have any questions, and I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you.

---------------------------------------------

I'm fine with the $109.54 charge for Customs Merchandise Processing fee and disbursement fee.  No problem with that at all for $30,000 worth of merchandise.

Glad to hear it all worked out.  Only problem I ever had was a weight issue.  UPS somehow picked my package that was a Bitmain PSU for checking... and it weighed more then declared.  So I had to pay like 10 dollars was not bad.

That is all i have had to pay for mistakes.   US is pretty good overall on importing compared to a lot of the EU costs.

I sent another email thanking them for their adjustment and keeping me updated.

Everything looks like it will be okay... Thank goodness!

I am glad to hear this, but the whole process is truly convoluted to say the least.
Spond was providing HST on the airbill. I don't see why BMT cannot do the same-the number that you researched.
as far as UPS/FEDEX from China-UPS is a bit faster, FEDEX is a bit cheaper and FEDEX is more prone to get stuck according to others (over the last two years or so), but i never experienced this myself. i am using UPS from BMT, but FEDEX ground domestically, especially in vicinity as it is both cheap and fast.

Same here.  I've tried both and liked the speed of UPS.  I've had UPS do a total of 9 shipments for me from China thus far.  8 of them went flawlessly.  This last one, however, ended up creating cause for concern.  I've had people who chose both UPS and FedEx go through a similar situation as mine.

Hence, the reasoning behind me taking the following action:

1.  Add the proper HST CODE out to the right of my street address for my account at bitmaintech.com
2.  Add the proper HST CODE out to the right of my Federal EIN/SSN number for my business on my account at bitmaintech.com
3.  Have UPS call me from now on anytime a shipment for me arrived inside the US from another country to allow me to provide the proper HST CODE.
4.  Add a NOTE to the carrier on bitmain's website when placing the order that includes the proper HST CODE.

UPS and Fedex both seem to work fine for me.  DHL is really hit/miss depending on where you live, I live on the edge of one of the routes.  This means the DHL guy receives it quickly then sometimes ships through USPS mail when he does not want to drive to my edge of his route.... so sucks horribly and adds day's.

I really like UPS thought.  I've had probley the best luck with them overall.

Same here...  Better luck with UPS.  The only time I use DHL is for any shipments I may get from J4bberwock in France.  The DHL driver will call me and I will meet them at Wendy's Restraunt about 15 minutes away to avoid having to wait longer.

I see, i used DHL to receive the one B8 i bought and it took an amazing 4 days(to Québec), so i received it the same week, i was able to pay duty online to avoid "delays" even though that was probably BS. And it was the cheapest.

All in all i liked my experience, UPS tend to be a bit slow, though i never had any actual problem with them whatsoever. Fedex however, i had really bad experience and i plan on not using them ever again. I had good experience with CP/USPS too but its not an option here.

And everyone has their own best.  Once you find it stick with it.  DHL is only one I have had not deliver and ship through USPS to my door when they could have delivered that day, so they add 2-3 extra day's on almost anything I get with them.

But for some they are in the center of the drivers area and it is good on DHL.  Just varies for each person.  But DHL if you don't get "DHL Door to Door" which most packages don't have (in my experience at least) they have the right to ship 3rd party like USPS to get to you.  And it's all up to driver on if they do that, so edge of delivery area experiences this much more.

I bought 2 S7 B9 and now am awaiting arrival of said miners. However, I'm having a buyer's remorse. I think I should've kept my btc instead. Bitcoin price will rocket up this year, this much is certain. Mining is always a losing game due to diff rocketing up even more than price. We're all playing a fool's game. The only people guaranteed to profit are the Chinese factories and factory owners. Why are we so stupid???

We all hope for better.  I am convinced miners see the glass as half full and the server is coming by to top it off.😀

But if the price of BTC doesn't sky rocket or if it stays the same or goes down, your miner will be worth something at least.

That is the thing if you use it and bought something and it goes down... you might get a better deal.  Part of this is luck and part of this is news, we have had some crap news in last month.  Cryptsy and dev who wanted to leave with a bang.

So you can never predict what will happen for sure.  I think long term holding it will go up.  But how much and when.... not sure on that.

Right now i got both A6s and a S7 B8 and i'm strongly self-debating getting one last unit. I have strongly mixed feeling between getting something like a Batch 7 S7 or any other S7 that has high chip count or high efficiency or a last A6.


Its not that bad, with cheap electricity, you can be looking at a slowish break even at current BTC price + average 5-7% diff raises until halving. But if the price of BTC keep up, it would actually be great profit.

And when its time to sell, the unit will still be worth something, so thats a plus.

None of them. I rather wait for the next generation miners.
Looking at the difficulty i got no trust this machine will even get me my investment back, let alone make a profit.

edit after b8 has arrived in the house:

s7 any batch but not 6, 8 & 9!

But when the next batch arrive, the difficulty will raise again like it is now and you will see about the same profits as now. It will always be like this. The problem is probably your running costs and not the miner's efficiency.

1. In mining you should mine yesterday....

2. If he is speaking about concurrency between miner producers, he is right, but go back and read no. 1 again....

A lot of the people who say "I'm waiting on next gen" never end up being miners.  Truth is there always will be a next gen.  Does not matter what miner you buy it will one day be replaced.    A lot justify it with themself's and say they are waiting.... but the truth is most never get in the game.

Having is coming if your going to mine do some ROI and jump in.  If your sitting on side you might think about buying BTC, is only other thing that some can argue it's better all depends on situation.

A wise man once said, "When bitcoin price is high, buy miners; when bitcoin price is low, buy bitcoin."

I think the price is low currently, so buying bitcoin should be the rule of thumb. How do you know when bitcoin price is high or low? If bitcoin price around $600, it's high, time to buy miners, below $600 is time to buy bitcoins.

I don,t know about that.

Sell ASIC's when bitcoin is soaring, because everyone go in a buying frenzy. Buy Miners when Bitcoin is low. :P Same thing with BTC for buying, i guess.

I'd rather just have more miners however.

You know nothing, VirosaGITS!

"Sell bitcoins when bitcoin is soaring, because everyone goes in a buying frenzy. Buy bitcoins when bitcoin is low. :P Buy miners when bitcoin is high, I guess"

There I fixed it for you!

Naw people buy Miners at crazy high prices when the BTC price because they think the price will continue raising non stop or something. You could sell a S5 for 500$ last time.

I have to give VirosaGITS credit, he is actually out there buying miners and mining with them.   He is a miner I could be seen as siding with him as I to enjoy mining.

If you buy a miner when BTC is "low" and it rises you can make money off of sell as long as price did not go down and difficulty is not surging.  We saw this with machines when we were getting "low" bumps on difficulty for the longest time if BTC rised you could sell a miner for higher.     With difficulty jumping so much right now and btc not jumping it's hard to show this.  But it has happened in past.

On your BTC being "cheap" under 600 I don't think that is really true.  If market believed that we would be much closer to 600 then 400.  We hope it rises, but were not there right now.   Cheap was when we hit 350 or so not to long ago.... that was quick profit for some.

dont know about the other s5 and s4 n stuff but my s7 antminer fan died and i tried 2 of the top of the line Noctua fans they went at about 3500rpm and the air coming out wasen't even half of what the stock fans do, my s7 started heating up fast so i returned the Noctuas and now ordered the Original Delta 12038 fan 12V 3.9A TFC1212DE hope the voltage gona be ok for the s7 not sure if they are exactly the same amps as the stock fans.

Those will be fine. But no point in commenting on this thread, its a 2015 old dead thread, it was started when we were speculating about S7 and A6. The Noctuas would be good fans if you undervolted and underclocked the S7.

oops my bad... as if you would want to under clock tho anyways the deltas in getting in are 46.8W witch is more then the stock fans so im not sure if its going to destroy my s7 :(

I'm not convinced the TFC will draw more than the factory fans on the S7, I thought I remember reading that was the fan they were using on the S7's (or at least the same specs..)

And as for being capable of handling the draw, the new S7 (https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=000201603310959482268cfunbq106E5) uses a single 6000RPM fan instead of the 2x 4000RPM fans, and guaranteed it draws more than the TFC1212DE does. You will be fine with that fan from a controller point of view.