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Author Topic: Avalon 6 Vs Antminer S7, which one you will choose?  (Read 32679 times)
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October 05, 2015, 01:58:59 AM
 #41

Hope Avalon 6 will exist but right now no answer from the Avalon team.  Undecided

There is also a hope of Innosilicon coming up with a chip.  They have been huge in past with A1/A2 chips.    They had a partnership with LKETC which brought the dragons to market.   

At some point they should have a partnership with a miner.  They announced it a while back and got quiet.   But there are a few hopes out there to make it not a monopoly. 

Other is SP doing a SP40 series.... I really hope they do a hobby miner.  But not sure if we will get interest or they only pump out SP50's once they do start shipping (whenever that is)
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October 05, 2015, 02:02:33 AM
 #42

SP40 will not exist. SP said in the pass they will not do any more home miner.

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October 05, 2015, 07:51:37 AM
 #43

If the price is right then I will prefer avalon 6 if you're saying that the avalon 6 has less power consumption, then this will be great
300 watts VS 1,210 Watts isn't bad either but let's just wait for more details on the avalon 6 Smiley



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October 05, 2015, 09:17:00 AM
 #44

300 watts / TH per that web site original poster listed - so a little but not a LOT worse than the S7.

 I crunched the numbers though, and not looking like this Avalon 6 (IF it actually exists and IF the specs and price are correct, between original poster and that Chinese website) will RoI ever even at 3 cent/KWH electric, unless Bitcoin price sees a substantial jump or diff increases flatline REAL soon.

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October 05, 2015, 04:18:56 PM
 #45

300 watts / TH per that web site original poster listed - so a little but not a LOT worse than the S7.

 I crunched the numbers though, and not looking like this Avalon 6 (IF it actually exists and IF the specs and price are correct, between original poster and that Chinese website) will RoI ever even at 3 cent/KWH electric, unless Bitcoin price sees a substantial jump or diff increases flatline REAL soon.



I'm guessing it will really depend on the price tag on the unit. By the time they release it, since they are taking too long to do so, i don't think they will be able to price it at much more than 1BTC/TH/s.

Well when i say that, i'm thinking about the cheap thermal dissipation design. Albeit better in the new S7 form factor.
The software being rickety at best and important feature are left out on purpose. For example, they removed Volt control on S4 in later firmware while its possible to hack it back in and it work just fine.
The software is ultimately low end, not very good. Compare it to the SP20.
The noise is bad, compare to Avalon 4.1, although with the fan control and low ambient temp, its not that bad, just not excellent.
The plugs are on top of the miner, so its harder to stack, if all the inputs were behind, they would be more manageable. Again this is worse with the S5 and i'm not sure with the S7, but still. Compare it to the other mentioned miners.

Going into it though you know what your getting.   Bitmain has kept pretty much same software for all of miners, they are very similar.   So it's not a surprise on software side.

Also you don't want inputs on back as this is where hot exhust is.  So putting say power cables in the hot exhust is just not good planning.  I agree avalon 4.1 and sp20 did a better job with inputs on front.  But the S5 was built to be low priced.  It was not encased in a nice case like other two and used plastic sides.

If your wanting change I do not think it will come from bitmain as far as far as software design anytime soon.  As far as hardware going from 2 blades to 3 with S5+ and S7 I consider hardware a decent change.  Also a metal case compared to plastic sides.... so there is some improvement on hardware side.  

The hot hair should come out to the other side, not the side where you plug your things. You could use good solid plastic, it would be lighter than metal and still very solid. Tho not much less expensive. And my biggest grief is with the software-hardware part of the software. The volt control is bad, the fan control is finally here but still very bad. Etc.

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October 16, 2015, 05:27:07 PM
 #46

sorry guys, on avalon6S, my major design goal is to lower the cost and keep it stable & reliable at the same time.

look, most of your attention is price, price, price. how can i waste any more cents on user expreiences?  Undecided

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October 16, 2015, 05:39:48 PM
 #47

sorry guys, on avalon6S, my major design goal is to lower the cost and keep it stable & reliable at the same time.

look, most of your attention is price, price, price. how can i waste any more cents on user expreiences?  Undecided

ng

Your 4.1 was a great piece of gear.

When the 6 comes out I will get one and review it.

I like the idea that it will not be loud and will use less power then the s-7 from bitmaintech.

How long before I can order one?

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October 16, 2015, 06:04:30 PM
 #48

sorry guys, on avalon6S, my major design goal is to lower the cost and keep it stable & reliable at the same time.

look, most of your attention is price, price, price. how can i waste any more cents on user expreiences?  Undecided

ng

Only some few ones shout price price price. I shout reliable (like sp20) a work horse (like sp20) and nice gui with lots of setup OPS. In my hosted farm (in another country) were I do the monitoring through vpn, I need a reliable miner with automatic reboot or restart of cgminer when hashrate drops to a specified low hashrate. Power use is essential but for a 50-100 th orders pr order bulk pricing is more important than what 2,3 or 5 units cost.
Finally we need to break Bitmains monopoly…
Keep up the good work and let me know when you guys are ready for a trial miner before bulk orders.

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October 16, 2015, 06:10:12 PM
 #49

Intesting you mention the SP20, because by the time the SP20 was selling in enough volume to compete with the then-current S5, SP-Tech was selling them for a loss.  They even acknowledged that it was built too expensively, but that they were not willing to sacrifice quality or design because that's who they are. I'm sure this is a large reason why they are staying out of the consumer market for this gen (that and to avoid dealing with whining customers).

So the basic fact remains, the market is a free one in which price dictates demand.  If you want to sell miners for a profit, make it cheap and reliable enough for others to be able to turn a profit on it (even a small one).  If you want to either not sell, or sell for a loss, over-engineer it and include all the creature comforts.  Remember, other than a small group of individuals (enthusiasts) in our community, most miners buy hardware in-line with a business model, these aren't Playstations or iPhones where we get some kind of entertainment value out of them.

The SP20 was a win for us consumers, but it was far from a win for the company, at least from what I gather...

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October 16, 2015, 06:27:53 PM
 #50

Intesting you mention the SP20, because by the time the SP20 was selling in enough volume to compete with the then-current S5, SP-Tech was selling them for a loss.  They even acknowledged that it was built too expensively, but that they were not willing to sacrifice quality or design because that's who they are. I'm sure this is a large reason why they are staying out of the consumer market for this gen (that and to avoid dealing with whining customers).

So the basic fact remains, the market is a free one in which price dictates demand.  If you want to sell miners for a profit, make it cheap and reliable enough for others to be able to turn a profit on it (even a small one).  If you want to either not sell, or sell for a loss, over-engineer it and include all the creature comforts.  Remember, other than a small group of individuals (enthusiasts) in our community, most miners buy hardware in-line with a business model, these aren't Playstations or iPhones where we get some kind of entertainment value out of them.

The SP20 was a win for us consumers, but it was far from a win for the company, at least from what I gather...

Finsky, i give you right in most of your comments, but in my mixed farm with both SP20 and An S5 the SP20 is running for months without power cycle is needed, but each day 1-2 ants needs power cycle and not only a Cgminer restart. In 1 month 4 ants needs repair out of 75 and my first batch of SP20 from January 50 pcs are working flawless downclocked to 1.35 TH.
For me it costs fortunes to get Ants back for repair and rhen shipping back, so reliability is important.
You are right that to beat Bitmain, Avalon needs to release something of same build, but just more reliable and they will get a lot of customers.

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October 16, 2015, 06:38:43 PM
 #51

Finsky, i give you right in most of your comments, but in my mixed farm with both SP20 and An S5 the SP20 is running for months without power cycle is needed, but each day 1-2 ants needs power cycle and not only a Cgminer restart. In 1 month 4 ants needs repair out of 75 and my first batch of SP20 from January 50 pcs are working flawless downclocked to 1.35 TH.
For me it costs fortunes to get Ants back for repair and rhen shipping back, so reliability is important.
You are right that to beat Bitmain, Avalon needs to release something of same build, but just more reliable and they will get a lot of customers.

I'm not disagreeing with you in the least, my point was simply from the company's perspective as ng is here representing Avalon.  The Antminer S5 fared better for Bitmain than the SP20 did for SP-Tech, because the SP20 was built so well and had difficulty competing from a pricing point of view.  This is not a bash to the company or their product, in fact quite the opposite. I had ~20 SP20's and they all performed flawlessly  (Except that they didn't meet the claimed max specs but that's another story).  However as I mentioned, if you want to sell miners in appreciable quantities without taking a loss on your product -especially in a fast-depreciating market like bitcoin miners- you need to build it to a certain price point, not price it to a certain build point.

Hash rate and efficiency are the epitome of a standardized product.  The block chain does not care what brand, efficiency, or quality of miner put out the hash that solves each block.  And, as most of us are in it to make money, it needs to be priced competitively in order to achieve our goals, plain and simple.  That does not mean that Avalon's product may be given more value to it due to the fact that they produce quality miners, and their last gen was quiet enough for home mining, that does count for something. But again, $$$ in and $$$ out, for most of us it is black and white.  Smiley

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October 16, 2015, 08:49:57 PM
 #52

the avalon 4.1 was way more reliable due to the rasp pi controller.

buy 2 of them 1 for work 1 for backup.

hookup  3 or more to 1 rasp pi and you are set.

the 4.1 was quiet I had 3 purchased a fourth on ebay and that deal fell through.

I would love to review a 6 when the time comes.

The wife would also like it since it would be cooler and quieter then the s-7 running in house now.

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October 16, 2015, 10:25:05 PM
 #53

the avalon 4.1 was way more reliable due to the rasp pi controller.

buy 2 of them 1 for work 1 for backup.

hookup  3 or more to 1 rasp pi and you are set.

the 4.1 was quiet I had 3 purchased a fourth on ebay and that deal fell through.

I would love to review a 6 when the time comes.

The wife would also like it since it would be cooler and quieter then the s-7 running in house now.

I would agree a Avalon 6 would be something on my list to get eventually. I still have my 4.1's running they ran all summer and did it great.  They are great on under clock and honestly the most quiet fan miner I've ever tested.

I hope they get it out there on market in not to long.  But they are pretty quiet.
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October 16, 2015, 10:43:20 PM
 #54

The price of 4.1 was crap! the price of a second hand one was even crappier!

Show me the avalon 6!
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October 16, 2015, 10:48:02 PM
 #55

The price of 4.1 was crap! the price of a second hand one was even crappier!

Show me the avalon 6!

It was priced at a premium price no doubt.  I don't expect 4.1 to jump down.  It is a quiet miner with nice underclock and very very quiet. So if you compare to like S5 it will always be higher.  I was so happy with 1, i got 2 more Avalon 4.1's.

Avalon 6 no one can say what price will be yet.
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October 16, 2015, 10:50:16 PM
 #56

repeating the price policy behind 4.1, might spell bankruptcy
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October 16, 2015, 10:58:40 PM
 #57

repeating the price policy behind 4.1, might spell bankruptcy

They wont go bankrupt.  They made money off of 4.1's.  They actually did better the other's they were willing to hold till they got price they needed/wanted.

Look at SP20 that kept dropping, and said they took a loss on some of last ones.  They kept 4.1 pretty even on price and did not jump into the price war. So they were pretty smart as a business on that.
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October 17, 2015, 04:44:57 AM
 #58

In general.

Avalon didn't sell products in a loss, we just stop production when it's not competitive enough.
Then you see the Avalon4.1's cost very high so the retail price can not go down. (~2000RMB at last I remember)

For sp20s, I did a very carefully review on it. I think their marginal cost is close to ~2000USD. Any NREs are NOT included.
It means sp-tech sell them at about 15~20% of their cost.

Bitmain did a very good job on the tradeoff about price, performance, reliability and UE. This is worth learning for all miner manufacturers.

About avalon6S, I think it's a miner designed for big mining field. We did a lot of job on mining farm management systems in the past year.

I have a plan to do a low noise DCDC solution miner (Avalon6P )for home, but it's sure will have a higher price (30% cost increase) and
lower efficiency (5-8% decrease) compare to a "string" solution. Also it's far more difficult to design & manufacture.

So the reality let me pause.  Undecided

ng

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October 17, 2015, 05:45:09 AM
 #59

In general.

Avalon didn't sell products in a loss, we just stop production when it's not competitive enough.
Then you see the Avalon4.1's cost very high so the retail price can not go down. (~2000RMB at last I remember)

For sp20s, I did a very carefully review on it. I think their marginal cost is close to ~2000USD. Any NREs are NOT included.
It means sp-tech sell them at about 15~20% of their cost.

Bitmain did a very good job on the tradeoff about price, performance, reliability and UE. This is worth learning for all miner manufacturers.

About avalon6S, I think it's a miner designed for big mining field. We did a lot of job on mining farm management systems in the past year.

I have a plan to do a low noise DCDC solution miner (Avalon6P )for home, but it's sure will have a higher price (30% cost increase) and
lower efficiency (5-8% decrease) compare to a "string" solution. Also it's far more difficult to design & manufacture.

So the reality let me pause.  Undecided

ng

I'm excited to see what you have coming.  I still have not parted from my 3 Avalon 4.1's.   I love them with Pi as controller and low sound, I had them in my bedroom.  Only big miner I have done this with.

Now they are in my mining area.  But I still love them. 
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October 18, 2015, 01:47:26 AM
 #60

I have a plan to do a low noise DCDC solution miner (Avalon6P )for home, but it's sure will have a higher price (30% cost increase) and
lower efficiency (5-8% decrease) compare to a "string" solution. Also it's far more difficult to design & manufacture.

Why does the design have to shift to DCDC again in order to make a home miner? Bitmain had string miner boards as low as 250W.

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