Bitcoin Forum

Links
The current SDC ANN https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=745352.0
The original SDC ANN https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=700087.0
ShadowSend v2 whitepaper http://shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcash-anon.pdf


The censorship on the SDC thread has gotten heavy-handed and fascist. I hate what it has become.

Since I have questions which will not be accepted in that thread I have created this one. It is uncensored, unmoderated and a real forum for discussion.

Shadow commissioned Isidor Zeuner to perform a cryptographic peer review of Shadowsendv2 almost a year ago. He requested more documentation to perform the review. It is mental to expect somebody to read through thousands of lines of code

There was no vote to move on to the market without Zeuner review, neither was there a vote to slash a 20 million supply to 6million in the first 2 weeks of SDC's existence

Before it was made clear more documentation was required (on account of the terrible whitepaper etc etc) the Zeuner report was expanded at the request of the Shadow Team to include comparisons with DarkSend and Crytonote, which to me seems like a delay tactic in hindsight.

Yes, the Zeuner scandal has raised a BIG RED FLAG for me personally and I wonder what will happen to the 5BTC donated for the review. But it's not the money, its the waste of time waiting for nothing I resent most. The SDC Team are in lock-down and will not indulge any conversation regarding the review.

Saying "look at the code" as some have said is unrealistic and saying BTC didnt have a peer review for years is irrelevant since we bloody well commissioned one a year ago!

I asked if the documents being prepared would help Zeuner complete a crytpographic peer review

ffmad (SDC Team) evaded my Q by saying it would be helpful for devs etc (see quote below)
See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=745352.msg12576177#msg12576177

I said that sounded like a No, it wouldnt help Zeuner and I asked for clarification.

NO reply. And all my posts regarding this were deleted

I can only assume whatever docs are being prepared will not aid Zeuner understand ShadowSend and (for example) why both NIZKPs AND ring sigs are used.

YES or NO - does the documentation you are writing permit a cryptographic peer review of ShadowSendV2? I can only assume given the evasiveness the answer is sadly NO.

There is a great deal more to say and more links to provide but Ill leave it here for now.

In short how can these guys be trusted anymore if they wont stand behind their product and provide a simple peer review of the crypto scheme?

Thanks.

They have a bot auto-deleting any negative post from their thread. ENOUGH SAID

you started to get the point about this scam now
it's no more than just a cloakcoin scam #2

What I dont understand is that if you are spending the time to even type that post, why you havent dumped all your coins and moved on.

Trust your instinct...and in this case I would say its fairly right.

LOL, now changed to BIG RED FLAG

After insisting I open my own thread (which I finally have done as you can see) they then deleted my post linking to it! (LOL)

THE "FAIR" LAUNCH
aka Proof-of-Chaos




Some SDC community contest the solo miner theory and say it was a mining pool address although did not argue the point. Whether or not it was a solo miner we can safely say the launch wasn't fair and a 20 mill supply was reduced to 6 mill without any transparency after only 11 days.

So why are NIZKPs and ring sigs used when only one is required for anon? Anybody?

You never linked to it only. You threw in all your junk with it. There is no bot deleting your posts! The answers are all within the comunity you just havent asked in a respectful way.

Link to this thread please and link to it only; explaiing what it is. I encourage you to reframe from adding all of your other, loaded junk (paranoid delusions).
Ask the comunity respectfully and you will get your answers, they are all there. There is no need for paranoid delusions.

Things i have noticed from you recently are. You dont accept the answers given. You abuse the team and comunity, wondering why no one will talk to you.
You then wont accept the answers given.

It took you 3 weeks to make this thread and finnaly start the correct process to be heard but now you have loaded it up with so much bullshit. Its hard to spend two minutes here on this hate thread!

Good luck with that. When you start to pull your head in and act like the human you say you are then i will be more then willing to help you. But you are making it extremely hard on yourself and all of the people around you.
They call that opression!

These choices are yours and no one elses.

This is a hate thread made by a sick individual with a warped veiw on the actual reality that transpires before him/her/it.
And will be treated as such. A hub for all the others just like him/her/it.

It seems Child Harrold is only raising real concerns, I have not seen him insult you or the shadow community, on the other side, all the shadow team insults him and calls him paranoid instead of giving proof that all his concerns did not happen, sad, did not thought shadow team would attack this way a former investor raising questions.

I'm the only person that actively insults Child_Harold. He could very easily get all of his questions answered by messaging the correct people. This is beyond asking simple, innocent questions. This is a vendetta. He spams the same questions over and over, and when answered, he ignores the answers and continues to spam the same questions to create fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

So he's being ignored in public. Because nobody in this community condones that bullshit behavior.

Sure Child-Harold is the benchmark for stable and respectful.




Cut the crap! Child harold and his sock puppets are pests and wont follow any kind of simple protocol to be heard. There is a huge difference between what CH is stating and what is actually happeneing/happened


Child-Harold and his/hers/its sockpuppets have been given plenty of answers, they just wont accept them.
And i believe thats ok as long as you debate fairly and without conjecture!

This is a post on the ethereum blog when stephan tual announced he was leaving to build a future he prefered.
https://blog.ethereum.org/2015/09/03/a-message-from-stephan-tual/

This was Child-Harold's retort, one might i add was totally un called for. I was not alone.
https://i.imgur.com/vo1vS3G.png

Make up your own minds, however, in my opinion, all you will find here is a circle jerk of sockpuppets pushing their ineffective agenda.

Still sounds like an attack and discredit strategy instead of just giving a proper answer to the questions that you say has been answered but nobody have been able to see, and why all this looks Shady just like the name implies.

Well i have little control over what you think is shady or not, if it looks shady then by all means stay clear of the project. It really is that simple.

Thats bullshit. Even from the first post on this thread anybody can plainly see 3 unanswered Q's (which have been unanswered for months):

1/ Why are both NIZKPs AND Ring Signatures used when only one is necessary for anoymity?

2/ Are the documents referred to in the latest SDC update going to assist Zeuner and others like him perform a crytographic peer review of ShadowSend?

3/ You claim a community decision was taken to abandon the review in favor of developing the market. I was in the community and have no recollection of this. Can you evidence this please?



Well I did it didnt I? I stepped up. Now can somebody please try and answer these questions??


Finally I d ask that SDC Team member dasource not discredit this thread and implement a 3-line whip (with LongAndShort) to discourage SDC community members (such as they are) to participate in here. I promised an unmoderated thread - HERE it is.

+ @dasource: you have no power here  :P

ps perhaps I was harsh on Stefan Tual. I admit when Im wrong.

This is shady if you did not know
http://s22.postimg.org/7ubu4k9pt/Sd1_RXb9.png

If you recommend me to avoid it instead I think I will.

Sigh... Please let this soak in...

Formulate your questions in a coherant manner. Make a thread (not this hate thread) asking the questions ONLY and you will find you will get answered. (dont load it up with venom and conjecture) Its hurting my head that you keep up this garbage tangent and expect people to play your silly game with you.

Please for all things good Start a thread asking the questions. Make them neat and cohenrant. And leave it at that. The way you have been doing it is unacceptable and the proof is that you are not being answered for the 100th time because you dont seem to be accepting any of the answers given thus far. So please, I'LL YELL IT ONE MORE TIME, Please formulate the questions you need to desperatly know the answers to in a coherant fassion. Make a thread and post them. Then please link to that thread on The Shadow Project ANNOUNCMENT thread. The one on this forum; stating something like " Here are some questions i would really apreciate some answers to" (keep it unloaded of all you other bullshit and you may find yourself surprised!!!

My personal opinion is that you dont really want the answers, you just want to destroy yourself for some crazy reason. As i said my heart goes out to you, it really does, however, i refuse to enable it in you. Please be heard in the ways put to you, please try it if you really do want some answers. Then it will all be over with and we can go on our merry little ways and continue building a better future for our childrens children! As i said though, that is just my opinion and assumtion of whats going on.

- Yes my questions are coherent. Can you answer them?
- No self-destruction required - I really DO WANT the answers
- "Start a thread asking the questions" - Im sorry but perhaps i misunderstood, you want me to create another thread?
Have the vapors from your boot polish affected your brain? Are you taking the piss? I literally just made this thread and clearly your patronizing manner had graduated to proper cunt status. I WILL NOT START A NEW THREAD.

https://i.imgflip.com/s1s0t.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/s1s0t)

Its a hate thread loaded with your bullshit delusions and conjecture. In it resides some valid questions (that have been answered but not all in one place, linkworthy...) clouded, as i said, with buillshit delusions and conjecture.

You wont find anyone enabling your crap CH. You damn well know what i mean by make your own respectful thread asking the questions you would like answeres too. You refuse to and call it all sorts of crap it just isnt.
You seem unwell to me and you seem out to destroy yourself and everyone with you. I will have no part in this silly game. I'm trying to help you get heard but you keep throwing that in my face also.

Untill you respect yourself dont expect anyone else to resepct you!

Forget the cheap psychology

Answer the questions, it's that simple

What's the problem?

Does this mean that SDC`s anon feature is not successful?

NIZKP are part of the method used by CryptoNote ring signatures, which was copied by SDC. It is in section 4.4 of the CryptoNote white paper.

Do xmr and sdc have technically the same anon feature?

It isn't exactly the same due to the nature of the code bases (SDC is built on top of a Bitcoin fork, Monero is not), and there are some other small details that are different, but the overall method of the ring signatures is the same.

I could kiss you smooth. What's you take on the ShadowSendv2 whitepaper?

They should have properly cited cryptonote instead of just burying it in the references with no citation in the paper. Other than that, and ignoring the issue of writing quality and style, the paper isn't bad.

I'm told that the messaging thing is similarly derivative of Bitmessage with similar lack of care to properly cite and give credit, but I can't confirm based on my own research (since I haven't done any).

And now you want to kiss smooth.....   Come on man, now your taking this a step too far.   ;)  

I agree.

For answering a Q I express my gratitude.

So NIZKPs and Ring SIgs are part of the same CN technology? OK
And the WP isnt bad despite not referencing CN correctly? You are more generous than others Ive spoken to regarding this

Zeuner asked for more documentation. Does this seem reasonable to you and can you explain why providing documentation for a crytographic peer review could be so time consuming it has been placed on the backburner for almost a year? Would it not be wiser to have ShadowSend properly tested before moving on to the Market?

I did mention the writing quality. It is hard to understand and unclear about a lot of things. On the tech itself, what can I say? It is a near-clone of cryptonote which I consider to be a generally good system.


I have no opinion on the priorities of the people running the SDC project. I guess they have their reasons. You already know the distribution strategy disqualifies it from consideration for me. Perhaps these issues are not unrelated.

Oh you're just jealous ;) Or maybe it's Stockholm syndrome, LOL

So you finally dropped by? Good to see you rusty, do you like what I've done with the place? :)

This chimes perfectly with what my software developer mate said about the paper.

Since a whitepaper is supposed to make things clear and be coherent Id argue it fails to do specifically what it is meant to do. Therefor it is "bad".

The shadowchat paper could be even "badder" (worse) by the looks of things
http://www.shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcoin-p2p-em.pdf

 


I must confess I literally had no idea the original emission was supposed to be 20 million until a couple weeks ago when I started reading the original thread and that the PoW phase lasted even less time than I thought. Aborted after  only11 days due to scrypt ASIC's? Without this post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=700087.msg7925381#msg7925381 I might have never even known!



https://i.imgur.com/TdGXT1d.png

Doesnt look good.

Seeing 00Smurf, gouda and LongAndShort post in that thread in the first few days of Shadows life didnt make me feel any better either.

CH, if you want information or questions answered, PM me here or on Slack. I'm not a developer, and I'm not a team member, but the questions you ask are easily answered by simple research.

It's ironic that you don't trust anyone in Shadow but you trust smooth and Zuener.

You think it's ironic?

Obviously I trust Zeuner and smooth more. They are direct and dont waste people's time and are (relatively speaking) well known entities in the crypto-space with proven records

Q What is the longest list in the world?
A The list of things Id rather do than PM you

Besides the fact u are not a dev and not a Team member you have always been a nasty piece of work

-You're the guy who once called me a broken hype machine and now struggles to get a single retweet
-Your'e the guy who by his own admission is the "only person that actively insults Child_Harold"
-You're the guy that called me schizophrenic on twitter
-You're the guy who told me to suck Zeuners dick
-You're the guy who said I was sucking smooths dick today

You're a programming student who used to work at McDonalds.
There's only one dick being sucked around here, and (ironically) its waiting for you in slack.

So you're not truly seeking any real knowledge or information from anyone other than smooth. Duly noted.

P.S. Zuener has wasted your time for "almost a year" and he's a nobody in the crypto-space with an unproven record.

I'm offering up an apology. My opinion of your actions is still my own, but it is not my place to actively degrade you in the ways I have in the past. My insults and name calling are not warranted by your behavior. I'm sorry for harassing you and upsetting you. I should have never stooped to that behavior.

Now, if you need to know some shit, let me know, I'll figure it out for you. Only after private means of communication have been expended, you can resort to posting your questions multiple times on the same page with biased evidence in an attempt to create uncertainty in the community.

Quoting you to record this statement as long as BCT is online and longer. Good night WC

Well this really saddens me CH.   :(

You're better than this and its upsetting to see you lower yourself down to smooth or even bentachs level of mudslinging. 

I know others may not agree with me here, but I really hope once you get things sorted out that you can come back home.  Take care buddy.

If you feel sad you can probably imagine how I feel. Thinking back on how much song & dance I raised over Zeuner months ago only to now find I am still without the review that I told everybody I know about. I have lost face and so has Shadow over this.

As far as mudslinging (I assume you're referring to the POW phase stuff I linked). People will make up their own minds about that and can do so just by reading the first few pages of the original SDC thread as I did for the first time a couple weeks back.

The censorship on the main SDC thread is totally out-of-control and LongAndShort's ANN only policy is bound to raise some eyebrows. I really dont see how asking questions about Zeuner in that thread is considered off-topic and I have little motivation at this point to struggle to post there without deletion, always wondering which of LongAndShorts triggers I might upset.

It has almost always been about the anon for me: Darkcoin, Monero, Bytecoin, Cloakcoin, Bytecoin, Shadow
A long and tiring pilgrimage indeed lasting three or so years.

OUR COMMUNITY DESERVED THAT REPORT. DAMMIT - I DESERVED THAT REPORT  >:(
WITHOUT IT SHADOW CANNOT PROVE INNOVATION AND HAS LITTLE VALUE.

Nobody will use the market or shaodwsend seriously until proper peer-review.

By coincidence the most recent episode of LetsTalkBitcoin deals with the subject of peer review and whitepapers and discusses a new web-based peer review journal called Ledger. I suggest you submit the whitepaper to them (for free) and see what they have to say. AT one point one of the Ledger guys says that crypto projects would do well to have there stuff peer-reviewed before launch. Oh well. Still though …give it a go.

https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-252-new-ideas-in-cryptocurrency
http://ledgerjournal.org/ojs/index.php/ledger/announcement/view/4

Be courageous.

This time next year Rusty… (http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/lostmedia/images/a/a9/O-ONLY-FOOLS-AND-HORSES-facebook-1-.jpg)

My view:

Coins should use uncensored threads instead of moderated ones. That way these issues remain on the coins thread to be dealt with instead of adding new drama and threads to the site.

Child Harold may have made mistakes, but I can understand why he felt frustrated and wanted to vent after his posts kept getting deleted in the SDC thread.

Many investors avoid coins with moderated announcement threads altogether and I don't blame them. Those that speak the truth should not be scared of an open and unmoderated debate.

You're sitting on the sidelines as a a cheerleader wondering why you didn't get a championship ring when your team won it.

Get involved.

You should also stop spewing your claims of a solominer getting a majority of block rewards after a single mining pool went down when the block reward kicked in. It's pure bullshit. Given the entire spectrum of evidence, you will always be wrong about that.

It's not a factor of trying to silence debate.
Its keeping the announcement thread clean of spam. Valid concerns will not be deleted and ignored. We already addressed Child_Harold's concerns and provided him with the answers he did not want to hear, so he continued to spam the thread with fud.

This is what a debate with CH looks like.
CH: CLAIM1
OTHER: RESPONSE
CH: CLAIM2
OTHER: RESPONSE
CH: CLAIM3
OTHER: RESPONSE
CH: CLAIM1, CLAIM3, CLAIM2, CLAIM3, CLAIM1
OTHER: RESPONSE
CH: SAME SHIT OVER AND OVER

Most of his arguments are unsound and even invalid. Commits many logical fallacies at once. And he spams for answers from people on this forum without attempting to contact them directly (every few weeks demanding a dev update when he could just send the devs a PM to find out how things are going, etc).

@wheatclove

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=745352.msg12616537#msg12616537

Re: your solominer theory:

 The chickenstrips pool goes down around block 119 (according to forum posts), that address you linked doesn't start mining until block 169. Would a malicious miner risk losing a potential 20,000 coins?

Furthermore, block 169 is found 13 minutes after a new pool (coin-miners) is posted in the thread. Do you have any evidence that your "malicious miner" is not that pool?

The address you posted stops mining (dates and times match) just before someone reports it as being down on the original thread. The operator reports his database corrupted and begins to accept deposit requests.

Conclusion: the address you use for evidence is the address of the coin-miners pool.

1. Even without a solo miner there are many questions raised
2. Proving me wrong should consist of a couple links to ShadoeCash tx's showing funds moving from the suspicious addy to the non-suspicious one.

Do you have such a tx? Please link

1. The questions you asked beyond the solominer have been answered. 
Stop spamming this ambiguous crap.
2. The burden of proof is on the person forming the argument. I've addressed the premises of your original conclusion adequately enough to uproot your argument.

1. Absolutely not. Even SDC Team member dasource (who I do not belive was involved with SDC in these early days) sayd he'll be launching his own investigation in order to restore faith.
See below.

2 Are you telling me you cannot find a tx showing the transfer funds from the suspicious address to a non-suspicious one? That should be easy.

1. I've replied to your "why did the devs cut mining short" on two separate threads. If you want a dev to answer you, PM them on slack.
2. No, I'm telling you I don't have to waste my time finding that evidence  because you have no evidence proving that the initial coinbase rewards mined from that address were transferred to suspicious addresses in the first place. That argument was never made by you and no evidence exists to support that argument. Why am I supposed to counterargue? Do you understand how LOGIC works?

Can you prove that you're not a troll?

child_harod, P3RS3US or Wanderlust, whoever of you are you right now..

I'm genuinely curious: What's your aim?

Honestly, this thread has "hate" written all over in it. You either like SDC (which you obviously don't) or not.
If not, move on and find a coin, with all the stuff that you need.
From what I can say:

• successful peer review
• really good distribution
• fair launch (or however you define that)
• anonymity
• regular dev updates

..about right? I tried to build that list based on my memory, what got you heated many times about Shadow.

OR there's the other option, that you actually like Shadow (not that it seem like it anymore).

In either way, why do you spam and flame SDC so much? I'm not flaming you right now, but be honest — were your posts always meaningful and to-the-topic? I know you're loving all the quotes, memes and many Youtube links; but when you flood the thread with this stuff and somewhere bury a legitimate thought in that from time to time, I wouldn't be so surprised that my posts were deleted. You ARE getting your answers, you just ignore them.

If you like SDC, you could be more civil and ask the questions you want answered politely and well formulated. If you caps-yell in every direction, don't act hurt when this behaviour is disliked.
If you don't like SDC, you're doing all this just as trolling, trying to hurt SDC. Really? That is you legacy? "I won't have SDC, so I'll make sure nobody will"? 'Cos that's like it seems (from my point of view).

His entire conclusion:


To summarize: do your own research and make your own conclusions. Neither good or bad.

The truth, innovative tech and anonymity in a world of control. What's yours?

And you do realize that what you do looks more like you're flaming the s#!t out of SDC, right?

I'm curious why you're throwing dirt on Shadow. If you don't like it, nobody forces you to stay. My point is: there's a lot of other coins, which may even fit your needs better.
Why staying here if you're not satisfied? Just saying – move on and don't hate anymore. Nobody profits there, really.

You're just pissing a lot of people this way, for nothing. Well, for "truth", but yeah. I guess you get my point.

If you're going to pay someone a handful of BTC to do a review of the tech, why choose a random unknown who's not part of the crypto community? There are even really respected people involved with Bitcoin that will do serious analysis but under an assumed name as not to imply that their review is an endorsement(Monero has had this done with a few different 'big names' in Bitcoin I believe). And even if you want someone to do it under their real name, I don't think it's too difficult to find someone if you're actually paying money which Shadow appears to be doing.

Kristov Atlas and Peter Todd declined. Not sure who else was contacted. Greg Maxwell might be another potential, but may be a conflict of interest due to his involvement with CoinJoin.  Most of the big names in crypto are consumed by Bitcoin projects.

Everyone can yet again see that your reality is far from everyone elses. Your use of "out of control" and "chaos" are fear mongering tactics used by the very people you pretend to dispise.

You were wanred and then some, countless times you said goodbye to everyone and told everyone that you would not be comming back to post in that thread yet you did. You are "out of control" and the comunity wishes to manage you.

Stick to your hate thread, continue banging on about your rubish thoughts about Shadows past and future due to you inexperience and complete lack of knowledge in all of the areas you seem to feel are important thats fine. However, you have been given rules for participation in the Shadow Announcment thread. You continue to break them, yet your posts are still there. Stop the pitty party and pull your head in kid. You are way out of your depth.

Again, i will suggest you make a clean thread with charts graphs and facts, not this conjecture hate thread filled with your bias! I promise you will get the answers you want. You wont so it just shows you are out to destroy yourself and everyone with you. Mainly you want and need attention. Hense no one wishing to play your game except that idiot smooth who still hasent taken the time to note the differences between the code yet still feels the need to give opinion on it. How long has said code been availible for him to note them? Exacly! Thus being an idiot with an agenda!

Pull your head in CH, this is not becomming of a standup citizen, and is far from the correct way to be heard and respected! Its your choice not ours, so stop making it our problem when its clearly yours!
Announcment means announcment, if you are going to avoid words based on you not beliving they are right then we may aswell not use words to comunicate at all!

I see that you have chosen to make this thread in the altcoin discussion part of this forum. This shows you know the differnce between Announcment and discussion. It seems you only acknowledge them when it suits you. And refuse to abide by them, but only when it suits you.

We are having a dicussion now based on the bias you filled the topic with. When you ask, plainly and coherantly the questions you pretend to seek. Then we can all discuss those, untill then this is a hate filled topic filled with conjecture from a  misguided, unwell individual, who wishes to break the rules when it suits them. You are showing that you dont care at all for facts but just want to project your misguded assumtions onto anyone who will listen.

Can you see where im heading with this point!? I hope so! Im sure you can but refuse to let it soak in properly.
You are saying one thing, might i add i think its quite admirable in its own ways. But your actions are telling quite a different story. Actions speak much louder then words in most cases and yours are a stark contrast to the things slipped in between your conjecture. Stating you just want the truth. Your actions are showing you refuse to accept it and just want to continue fighting.

I can see there is a trust breakdown between you and the Shadow comunity/devs. You wont seem to trust anyone but an outsider for now, hence feeling the desperation to have a peer review. I get that, however, what you are doing is ignoring the fact that the best equipped people to help you with this are the Shadow comunity/devs. You have effectivly driven a wedge between you and them. You need to look at that in my opinion, because the way you wish to be heard at the moment will never work for you as long as you continue to push the best equipped people to help you find your solution, away from you. Am i making sense?

Continue on this path and you just show that you dont want answers but fights! Fights is what you will get untill you pull in your head, and come at this the correct and respectful way. I hope this is getting through to you, or else its a complete waste of my time, which might i add, your actions keep telling me it is.

I was looking into the code with all the discussion, Max_Money or Max Cap is at 2,000,000,000 Shadow (2 billion coins)

That will be created in total ? what?

best i can remember, max_money refers to how many coins that can be spent in one transaction, and has nothing to do with the total coin supply.

Hmmm... Let me see...

Fuck You

Moderated ANN threads are a red flag. Ultra-fast front-loaded distribution is a red flag. Missing, poorly written, or improperly cited white papers are a red flag.

Smoking guns are rare. Red flags are common. Ignore them at your peril.

Sorry Rusty .. Goin with smooth on this.

I am child_harold and my pilgrimage continues ...

Thankyou for clearing that up.
You chose to abuse the help, you dont want answers you want fights.
I'm really greatful for your reply from your sockpuppet CH. I will gladly refer to it everytime you chose to winge, and pretend you want answers.

I use this account when I'm on my phone and cant remember the CH password (this is well known)

I have dealt with your fascist shit long enough… u can quote me on that.

@LongAndShort

Game Over*

*Game over… you bastard

Alright, that's understandable.

Could also try #bitcoin-wizards and let them know that it's a new ring sig implementation in Bitcoin. I would expect that to pique some interest since Cryptonote has gotten a good amount of attention.

Not that it matters now that you already have someone, but if it doesn't work out for whatever reason or something it might be worth trying, lots of knowledgeable people there.

First you wanted to kiss smooth and now you are "going with him",  where will this pilgrimage end.   ;)

Anyway good luck and watch out for that big red flag that is smooth. 

News from Shadow chateooms

SDCDev laptop stolen and a donation addy has been posted. Hope he had full disk encryption.

Read for yourself at Shadowcash.io

(Reply u later rusty)

His laptop got stolen 3 weeks ago, in case you were wondering. And yes, his shit was fully encrypted.

Moderated threads often lead to a circle jerk culture where opposing viewpoints and tough questions are moderated and ignored.  

Group 1: This may be a good thing for those with large bags of coins because they have an incentive to keep the circle jerk going for as long as possible while they unload their coins to unsuspecting noobs.

Group 2: Moderated circle jerks are not good for new potential investors seeking to learn more about a project.

Ask yourself, which group are you in?

Those two groups aren't groups.

The moderation on the thread is to keep spam and trolling in check. The initial concerns raised by child_harold still exist in that thread. His spamming has been deleted and his new posts will be moderated as sanctions have been imposed on him due to the nature of his posting.  The thread moderators encourange intelligent, technical discussion.

There's not much circle jerk either because the community reaction to posts simply hyping the coin is generally negative.

I'm not sure you realise it but every thread on this forum is moderated and bitcoin is doing just fine!!!
There are only so many moderators to go around so moderating your own altcoin thread is wise not stupid, only trolls complain and think its an issue.
No one is stopping anyone from making their own thread!

BCT Forum mods adhere to certain standards that self-moderated thread mods do not.

For example I happen to know that you hare gifs being posted in-thread and regard them as clutter. You also take issues with many of my  postings that forum mods would not be troubled by (like Zeuner, early PoW days etc). I have even read in your logs discussion about whether the XSTDeletebot (or whatever its called) should be restored to auto-delete all my posts.

Saying only trolls take issue with self-modded threads only demonstrates how far off the reservation you have strayed.

You are a troll, a dirty stinking troll. You dont have any proof or knowledge of your claims. You chose this path, only you can correct it.
You actions have consequences, avoid them in your head all you want, they remain. You are a troll who has no clue what you are saying or doing.
You are being a pest. Its that simple. You are not fighting for anything worthwhile, you are just showing what a muppet you can be.

The harder you clench your fist the more control you will lose.

Remember when Cryptophile tried to censor me? Are you Crytophile?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHoZvp8bz1g

^upped by BCT user Tears on Dope if memory serves

I'm just stating a blazingly clear obvious! only you cant accept it. so keep banging on about your rubish and not doing the right things to be heard its cool.
We dont need you anyways, never have.

You insisted I create a new thread. Here it is. It is your prerogative to follow me into it and insult me further.

Self-moderated threads are not as trustworthy as regular threads. To me this is obvious.

Should I start a poll to establish BCT consensus on this? As if you care - the vapours from all your boot polish probably messed up your cognitive processes again.

Your opinion is not fact. Consensus does not affect truth. Your generalization is proven wrong by all of the questionable posts that remain in the moderated Shadow announcement thread.

I hope some other BCT users chime in on this cause you two might have been smoking a crack pipe.

Let's open it to the floor. Self-moderated threads as trustable as regular ones?

Heard of Bitcoin?

LongAndShort / Crytophile

If you are going to decree codes of conduct and issue warnings to BCT users you should really seek promotion to the SDC Team to play the part of Sheriff. Since you have known about SDC since at least day five of its existence, as I have evidenced, I doubt this will be a problem.

Obviously we cannot continue this way so I'll offer you a deal, even though your words to me are insane.

I will do as you ask, on one condition.

You must secure your promotion to the SDC Team and this must be announced in this thread and made official before Monday October 13th.  After that I reserve the right to express myself freely. If you get a Team promotion after that date I will honor the deal and stop posting altogether at that time.

If the Team backs you up in this way I will have no need to post in your thread again.



And this is yours.

THESE ARE THE TYPES OF POSTS THAT YOU'VE BEEN POSTING FOR THE PAST 6 MONTHS DEMANDING DEV UPDATES AND ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS THAT HAVE PISSED EVERYONE OFF IN THE SDC COMMUNITY.

If everyone is a dick to you, it's more likely that you're the dick than everyone else.

I thought you said consensus didn't  affect truth?

Anyway my bitter bitter disappointment regarding Shadow has taken longer than I thought to abate

I won't torture you guys on Monday since I torture myself too.

Just get a fucking peer review already and write a fucking white paper people can understand

LOL u remember the time you told me to do the peer review myself!? Classic

I linked a crypto peer review outfit called Ledger a couple pages back. They'll do it for free.

You're welcome

You know you could've done that a few months ago, instead of just being a whiny entitled douche.

Oh spare me your insults.

To answer your question Ledger did not exist months ago and I only heard about on a recent episode of the LetsTalkBitcoin podcast a week or so ago.

You probably feel kinda stupid now.

Although Ledger will probably throw the paper back giving similar feedback to Zeuner. Still, worth a shot assuming anybody in the Shadow community cares about the anon technology as much as the non-functional alpha GUI market without escrow coming soon.

I have been accused of FUD a lot. I have pretty much linked to everything Im discussing and disagree with this description of me. Good questions SHOULD create doubt and uncertainty. As far as Fear is concerned, that's just part of the human condition. If I was posting all this only to generate fear rather than answers Id be saying shit like:

Example FUD #1
- Is technovert real and did he help SDCDev create stealth addys for Cinnicoin?
Example FUD #2
-the poor whitepaper suggests lack of academic training and poor education.
Example FUD #3
-Does SDCDev actually go to church on Sundays like TrollsRoyce said? For a churchgoer he sure has a lot a bad luck: robberies, thefts, floods.
Example FUD #4
-the Market Alpha v1 planned for November is little more than eye-candy

You can ignore the remarks above. Just making a point about FUD vs good questions.

Ill be updating the OP in coming days to organize all the links regarding the issues I have addressed so far in this thread.

https://i.imgur.com/8x2N9Zy.png

@wheatclove: I have always carefully avoided the word "scam", but if the boot fits…

OK one more from the www.shadowcash.io logs:

once more wheatclove is asking me to participate in the review (sigh). Im beginning to think some SDC community members do not realize the level of academia required to perform such a review.

So I should start to learn cryptography and computer sciences to a doctorate level?

I just thought the rest of the BCT community should know what I've been dealing with these last few months… so dumb it's unreal.

https://i.imgur.com/uIUbbPm.png

Bro... we get it. sdc is scam. you can die in peace now. Stop boring us with your endless crying.

Everything has an explanation https://youtu.be/hbcccff1JuA?t=13m1s

It is said a community vote was taken to develop a market and not provide docs for Shadoesendv2 due to alleged time constraints.

Is there any evidence/proof of such a vote taking place?

Everything I post in the official SDC thread is auto-deleted, or deleted vert fast. I asked what happened to shadowcash.io? Have people stopped chatting, are the bots all down or is there a new policy in pace?

The control of information in SDC has now reached disturbing levels

To those who would blame me for the recent tumult I'd say it was not ME but it was YOU, the SDC Team:

- It was YOU who changed the total number of coins without detailed explanation or transparency.
- It was YOU who failed to discredit the 400k instamine addy by connecting it to a mining pool
- It was you who did not relaunch after the only pool open for pre-registraion crashed hard only 2 hours into the launch, never to return.
- It was YOU who described the launch as "fair"
- It was YOU who asked for donations for a peer- review
- It was YOU who then asked the scope of the review to be increased with compares to DS and CN.
- It was YOU who after all that could not provide the basic documentation for a peer-review of Shadowsend. WHY, what's the real reason for this?
- It was YOU who claim you took a vote to push the market without peer-review given alleged time constraints. Show us evidence of this vote and any debate that took place.
- It was YOU who started moderating your thread heavily and deleting countless posts from many BCT users
- It was YOU who left a trail of crumbs leading to Cloakcoin.
- It was YOU who got all defensive and accused me of mental illness when I I asked you these questions.
- It was YOU who thought YOU could control the information.


Something is wrong with SDC and this is clearly demonstrable with or without my own cognitive processes being brought into question (i.e  whether I'm crazy or not).

The Team's disinterest and/or inability to deal in any meaningful way with any of the issues I've raised above and censor me as best they can indicates to me there's a game afoot.

Regarding smooth: We've danced before and now I'm a better dancer. I have no qualms with him, at least not at this time. smooth has always been consistent which is praiseworthy, whether of a  friend or foe. He has also taught me and the SDC  community more about how ShadowSendv2 works than has the SDC Team.

No, the only stuff deleted is yours, malicious links and unwell trolls like you. Because you are an idiot, we warned you and gave you alternatives.

So stop trying to make it some big thing it just isn't.

Its this simple: You are a an absolute maniac, one the community does not wish to enable, you have been given rules of participation, ones you fail to follow, then you get your junk deleted
and cry FASCIST PIGS. (which is more uncalled for abuse.) You are off your head kid, please get some help.
Good luck getting well but its just not anyone elses problem, stop making it everyone elses.

LOL - so the only explanation is I'm crazy? :P
Let's see how this all pans out and who is crazy when all is said and done.

PS There were no votes, there is no transparency

Not sure why i keep bothering with you, its not like you understand a word anyone says...

https://i.imgur.com/uHyc4U1.png

Your threats mean nothing, you aren't achieving anything but demonstrating what a fool you can be.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1211093.0

^Do you now understand the importance of a strong and innovative whitepaper?

A change is gonna come.

Vaporpaper?

You have to read the whole thread: https://github.com/ShenNoether/MiniNero/blob/master/RingCT0.4_copy.pdf

Dunno about the paper the topic is normally about, but the XMR one from Shen is no varporware.

CINNICOIN, SHADOW AND SILK
aka The Fall and Rise of Ryno

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=745352.msg12785999#msg12785999
The above post was written in the official SDC ANN thread. Sufficed to say I found it all rather irritating. For one thing the fresh air dasource mentions strikes me as the air of fresh socks: A newbie account called kewde with seeming knowledge on the workings of SDC now offering to provide documentation (*sigh*). Is it TrollsRoyce perhaps? Or maybe LongAndShort? Never mind that now… it sent me on a journey which lasted but a few hours but took me through many months of history.

Looking for more info about kewde I saw he has a freshly created GitHub account:
https://github.com/kewde

The first thing that I thought starnge was that he was following rynomster but not the "in-house cryptographer" tecnovert who also has an account on GitHub. As you can see TV's account is essentially dead, which wold explain why he is not followed. I must confess there are times that I wonder if tecnovert even exists.
https://github.com/tecnovert

It is then I stumbled into something rather amazing… which I'll save for the end.

I remembered Rynomster wrote code for Cinnicoin, shortly before its demise. Google brought up this part of the thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573232.msg8071103#msg8071103

Dated July 28th 2014 we see some CINNI users asking for ryno's code and asking where he is. The CINNI dev at the time was finding it difficult to contact Ryno. I read a couple days worth of posts and it would seem Ryno never corresponded again, although I should verify this by reading more of the thread. Of course now we know where Ryno was that whole time while the CINNI community was melting down: He was launching another PoS coin called ShadowCash.

Additionally two posts below the one linked above who should post but skip60 and shortly after Schild_. Both of these BCT users are very well known in the SDC community and I wonder if they knew what Ryno was up to as they were posting in CINNI. a bit more searching and I find LongAndShort and 00Smurf in on CINNI too: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573232.msg8535311#msg8535311

ffmad in the CINNI thread can be read defending Ryno after an angry CINNI community member says:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573232.msg8486310#msg8486310

"You know, I'm getting sick of having to explain this to people who parachute into this situation without looking at the context before they mouth off: Rynomaster had committed to the CINNI community delivery of encryption-message-based anonymous transactions tech to CINNI (this is documented in the message thread and in PM), stringing the CINNI community along for more than a month before he cited "family emergencies" and disappeared (along with battbot and others). CINNI as a result became an empty carcass with an absent "dev" (who really isn't a dev or coder at all, as far as I can tell, or pretends not to be).

Anyway, that same tech then turns up later in shadowcoin, a few mere days after its launch."

I am quite sure Ryno took a cabal of people from CINNI to SDC, leaving CINNI for dust. Reading the CINNI thread more would only add more evidence of this. How many more are there?

So what's the amazing part? Something called DarkSilk…

https://github.com/SCDeveloper/DarkSilk-Release-Candidate
https://github.com/SCDeveloper/DarkSilk-Release-Candidate/commits?author=rynomster

WHAT FRESH HELL IS THIS?

I think you may be on to something here.

I did some followup to your research and I stumbled upon this post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1200091.msg12794809#msg12794809

He is just a scam dev with a pumper master behind, that is why he works where he gets told, he does not care for the community but for the $$$ only, since cinni, when he started it was announced like he was going to be the new dedicated dev for cinni and just look how that played out, they  deleted posts and now they only say that he was "hired to fix only" of course all this excuses started just after the pump, before it was announced and supposed to integrate as the new lead dev, then he got the excuse of family matters and abandoned, don't be surprised to see him in other coins with more excuses.

What's this? The logo for DarkSilk?

You should treat me with a little more respect WC, after all it's not as though I'm making this shit up. Perhaps one day you'll thank me although that seems unlikely. Now go find out WTF Ryno was doing committing code to a decentralized market called DarkSilk 10 days ago…


"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=637704.msg8070425#msg8070425
People do not like being insulted. Plain and simple. People do not like seeing other people being insulted. Intellectual people that have a lot of money are not going to invest in a coin that has a community of people that insult whoever has a question or argument against the coin. Thats not safe investing.

Are you all so shadowed from the real world…"
-wheatclove July 28 2014, Cloakcoin thread.

Your post history is rather interesting too. You joined in late July 2014…

Statement from the Cinnicoin developer
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573232.msg8513020#msg8513020

Previous Cinnicoin community/project manager also clearing up the FUD:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573232.msg8506287#msg8506287

You're researching poorly, connecting dots that don't exist and then making accusations instead of asking questions. This whole thread seems designed to attack SDC rather than find out answers. I'm a bit disappointed. When you said you'd create your own thread I was looking forward to reading an interesting debate about shadowcash.

You know Bat is Ryno best friend in real life and part of the scam right?

Why don't you ask ryno instead of implying some sort of open source, unpaid development misconduct?  

EDIT: I already know the answer, but I'm not a messenger. Go ask him.

Mathematical proof of security for ShadowSend. As long as D is quadruple-phase equivalent to 8, then the system is proven secure. I bet you didn't know Wheatclove was a cryptographer did you?

Thanks Newbie, I'll read the links you posted but before I do so I wanna make it completely clear that from my reading of the CINNI thread dated 28th July 2014 (which the quotes I used from date from, and which Google threw up at me) that NOBODY in CINNI (including the Dev) had any clue where Ryno and the promised code was. With hindsight we now know that he was of course launching a different coin. These facts speak for themselves.

I'll get back to you after digesting the post you linked.

brilliant  ;D

Oh come now…

Fill us in. What is Ryno to DarkSilk?

Some seem to think I'm looking for lower prices by creating FUD

None of this is FUD - I'm posting links and trying to establish WTF happened to SDC

Only scratching the surface reveals red flags

I will not forgive for Zeuner and don't think SDC has any big league hope as long as it remains this shady

In fact it has all the marks of a scam

Enjoy your fruitless pump

OK

Read the links

The CINNI community wanted blood, ryno promised anon tx for CINNI in June and battbot tried to clean up.

Ryno never dealt with the situation personally and it was a f'ing meltdown for CINNI

Jesus man - it looks worse than ever

Prove Shadowsend is insecure to the point of it being unsuable and you might be taken half seriously!

Until then, to look at that post and make from it what you have puts you in the same category as this idiots whole thread. Conjecture, defamation, ridiculous  correlations, from two very unwell individuals. Good job lowering yourself publicly smooth, although I already knew you were as stupid as this tool wanderlust, perseus, and child-harold. You just chose to post and remove all my doubts.

Bring it on.

This is not smooth's fight... but since you challenge him I hope he tears you to pieces, you clever and manipulative fascist shill.

really? conspiracy theories now... dude listen, it sucks that you went into eth and lost like all your money. I really do apologize for that. For a long while i thought of you as a positive piece of the sdc community. Then you went off the deepend. I dunno what happened. But all this crap you are talking is literally crazytalk. All of this thread is just people measuring dicks and being sour about losses. move on please. big things are happening in sdc.

Et tu Rusty?

Love is blind, can't see forest for trees

I asked a PhD today: How hard to combine a btc and CN token in same network. He said not necessarily difficult

So the Q is how solid is the interface between the two?

All I ever wanted was more details and a peer review. Sorry Rusty.

Pa never mind ETH - Vitalik is a genius.

PPS PhD first reaction was why? ( combine these tokens?) 

I'm reading the description for Darksilk and it sounds an awful lot like Crave....

There are too many dicks on this thread to take it seriously. 8====D lol

PERHAPS.

And yet the dicks proffered were WC's, as usual.
…

What do you want from me? I have been duly diligent and linked  to all major items.

FACT: When CIINI was dying Ryno was launching another coin. To me personally this is unconscionable behavior

I have summarized the Shadow Play in 3 Acts:

I. Zeuner +Bad Whitepaper
II Unfair Launch
III Silky CINNI

smooth is cool btw and Id appreciate it if u (LongAndShort) didnt try to win the argument by casting the crazy brush.


PS You have FAILED to prove your worth and even admit your origins (CN). Your Whitepaper sucks and the red flags are abundant.

Until you PROVE otherwise, SDC is bollox, part BTC and part CN  with ill-documented everything… copy/paste +? Show Us…

while i agree with you about smooth being a cool dude i do not agree with your points at all. dev even shared in irc the reason why he helped out on darksilk. but dont connect strings that arent really there and dont claim an unfair launch. assumptions make an umption out of an ass or an opinion makes an elbow out of an ass or something to that extent. it literally could not have been fairer and created quite a rare gem in sdc since the mining was cut short due to a monster hasher. the past year has proved that there are some strong holders. you are looking at it wrong imho. but smooth is a neat dude. and you used to be too damnit. congrats on microsoft and eth though. i hope you held through the bad times or at least sold off and got back in more recently.

I cant believe what I am reading here CH.

Smooth is NOT cool, he is a lying, supertrolling, manipulating narcissist.  I thought you already knew that about him or have you forgotten about all the lies he helped spread about Shadow and ryno in particular, and true to form he has stuck the boot into Shadow in this very thread.

I know you will keep your eye on the ball because it is all about the tech after all, but dont expect a fair and unbiased view from your new buddy.

Good luck on the other side of the fence. 

Does DarkSilk make SDC the next CINNI?

It seems to me that the most successful coins are the ones where the devs stay for the long term instead of jumping from coin to coin.

Dunno

But I can see on official SDC ANN thread that Ryno is looking to raise 10BTC to keep developing thru November.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=745352.msg12831211#msg12831211
What happens in December?

Let it go

SDC is 99% scam and it's final wall is being broken, thank God
e.g. No reply vs Cinni, No reply vs PoW change and No reply vs Zeuner scandal
Buy at your own peril..

There has been a reply on Zeuner. He needs more documentation. And the documentation is being written as we speak.
Then again, the software being developed is open-source and I encourage everyone to do their own research. Fact is that the technology being written is proof that this coin is not a scam. Check the github repository yourself.

Meh the documentation isn't being written for Zeuner, but he might be able to use it. Ryno has never been in contact with Zeuner, I believe it was ffmad and trollsroyce who were communicating with him. The consensus in the SDC community is that Zeuner is either lazy, not competent enough to dissect the source code, or doesn't believe he is being compensated enough to take on the work which he originally offered to do for free (I admit the code is a brilliant uncommented mess, but it still isn't that difficult to comb through).

False

Ryno and Zeuner corresponded once upon a time

I want my Zeuner donation refunded NOW

Quit toying with us. admit a failure and reimburse the donors

The peer review boat sailed a long time ago..

Do It.. 0.3 BTC pls

You're gonna have to ask Zeuner for it back I believe.

I think u mean the Team should cancel the review and handle refunds with Zeuners assistance. Sorry Isidor

0.3 BTC is a decent sum these days and I have my living expenses too.

Do you usually take your donations back like this?

First time
Ryno et al have had almost 12 months to provide the docs ("the maths looks like Monero" P Todd's expert friend) and enough is enough.  >:(

As far as I can tell SDC is BTC with a CN token. Not necessarily difficult to code and NOT innovative.

OK, so by your logic – if it's not difficult to code, how can it be difficult to review without the docs?

Support level and lack of transparency shows this is just another cinni mess waiting to happen https://i.imgur.com/mME5mr7.png

"As far as I can tell..."

Yet couldn't figure out how SDC used zero knowledge proofs until someone told him.

Y'all are too funny. Shadow is a p chill coin and when the market launches icw shadowsend u all going to cry that u didnt invest or took part in support

Ch indeed a child.

As far as I can tell… based on conversation and comments of experts

I am not a programmer or a cryptographer or even a mathematician. It is cripplingly obvious that I (and most of the people in here, including you) should rely on expert opinions and quality peer review.

I have no bloody idea how ring sigs truly work and my head spins when I read the Cryptonote whitepaper. I am not in any way ashamed to admit that I rely on people like Zeuner to tell me if the cryptography and implementation are secure.

Many months ago Peter Todd's friend said of ShadowSendv2 that the maths looks like Monero. This ties in with everything smooth has said and my own personal experiences of CN coins and what the blockchains and inputs/outputs look like. All CN coins and ShadowSend suffer from fiddly sending requirements; often you'll have to try different values to send until it gets accepted. Since ShadowSend appears to be a CN token on BTC the mechanism by which one token is destroyed to create the other is critical and introduces potential vulnerabilities and vectors for exploit which do not exist in either CN or BTC alone.

When chatting with the CompScience PhD (who is highly involved with bitcoin) I explained how Shadow used two tokens, SDC and SDT:

Doc: Why?
Me: Why what?
Doc: Why does Shadow use two tokens?
pause
Me: Cause otherwise it would be like Monero?
Doc smiles
Me: How difficult would that be to make?
Doc: Not necessarily so difficult at all

I was at first flummoxed by his Why two tokens? question. It was straight at the heart of the matter… what is even the point of it?

The SSv2 whitepaper has two names: Rynomaster and Tecnovert. Tecnovert is described as the "in-house cryptographer". Using the cryptographer title suggests an academic training which is not demonstrated in the whitepaper since everybody I have spoken to (and smooth) agree it is poorly written, incomplete and unclear.

Since Tecnovert has never posted anywhere and has a dead github account I have even considered the possibilty he does not exist. Since he cant produce a decent whitepaper whith Ryno its moot anyway since he cannot explain his own work.

Now can I get a refund please? It would do you better to handle this matter than for me to ping Zeuner myself.

A market whitepaper should have been delivered before the market coding. And even when a whitepaper for the market is released it'll be written as poorly as its predecessors: ShadowChat (BitMessage clone), ShadowSend (CN clone)

I posit that NOBODY will TRUST such technology, or at least nobody should.

The upcoming alpha will not include decentralized escrow and is non-functional. I hope you do not plan to pump such incomplete tech, as pretty as it might seem.

If you have even a basic understanding of algebra you can compare the equations in the Traceable Ring Signature paper, the Proofs of Partial Knowledge and Simplified Design of Witness Hiding Protocols, the Cryptonote 2.0 paper and the ShadowSend 2.0 paper.

Having to rely on "experts" makes you vulnerable to bad actors. You've chosen not to attempt to understand anything. Start small. Everything in computer science is very small things put together to build something larger. It's like a big lego set but instead of different sized blocks of different colors, you put together different sized blocks of different letters.

The dual token is used because Shadow originated as a public token on a public blockchain. If you don't think adding ring signatures and a second token to an existing codebase for the first time is a large undertaking for 3 part time developers, you need to take a step back.

Bottom line, the algorithm used by CryptoNote was not cloned to Shadow. Ring signatures, zero knowledge proofs exist in both and the algorithms have certain similarities due to the nature of integrating such cryptography. The devs main goal is a complete private financial platform, not cryptography research.

I'm still waiting for your answer. WE demand answer! No, I DESERVE answer! Why won't you answer me? What are you hiding? Aaaaa big red flag! You're a scam, you know?

..sounds familiar? ;) /s

How are we supposed to take you seriously when even you don't play by your rules?

Sad truth.… coin is real, no one wants it, peer review is not coming

If it's not difficult for a man to cook, how can it be difficult for another man to write the recipe without knowing the ingredients?

Nobody told Zeuner it was a Crytonote clone

Boom

A basic understinh of algebra ...

Bottom line, no CrytoNote, no Shadow. If u want anon just use a CN coin and not this untested hybrid

Untested hybrid? Shadows network has been using ShadowSend2 for almost an entire year. There are bug bounties in place (some pretty high rewards) for any major and minor bugs. If you or anyone else can deanonymize ShadowSend, please do. You will be rewarded for your work by the Shadow team. Child_Harold/Wanderlust might also suck your dick as a bonus.

How long did it take for the CN clones to be deemed "tested" by your standard?

Nobody owes you anything. Go write your own review you reliable sheep.
I'd suggest you never come back to the open-source landscape your in. Have talken with Ryno and it will have decentralised escrow so i dont know where you get your stupidity from but certainly not from the correct sources.

If you don't like the tech, or shadow project in general. Please move on.

https://i.imgflip.com/tomq5.jpg

You are wrong... always.

see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=700087.msg8156416#msg8156416

another dodgy whitepaper

SHADOWCHAT: BITMESSAGE CLONE?
   

1.post an SDC>SDT tx and I'll guess the value sent looking at inputs/ouputs on chain. I got pretty good at it back in the day
2. Burn 200SDC for SDT and then burn the SDT for 200SDC and I'll tell you the address of the newly created SDC :)


From the roadmap and what the team said. Please link Ryno's comment, or the BitBay whitepaper :P

Mate i dont have to proof anything. I've talked with him weekly and it will happen. The roadmap is a bit outdated afaik. But can't blame them for that as software development is hard to schedule and deadlines are very hard to set in the world of development. Send a PM to him yourself and ask about it (in a friendly manner) and im sure he will update you on the current progress and explain about the escrow system. It really is that simple..

You will see for yourself in a few weeks that there will be smart escrow in place. If you have the patience.. (at this moment doesnt look like it)

Thats not how CH behaves. He would rather kick up dust, screaming about bullshit than PM Ryno.

Accept my challenge Le Cock de L'Amour?

Anon TX please and I tell u how much you spent (prob ur entire wod ;))

Asking questions does not create FUD, not answering them does.

Boom

Has the SDC community heard of the term
Plagiarism ?

I'm all up for open source but u can't just fuck around somebody else's paper/tech and call if ur own after some shiny marketing. You are not Steve Jobs and Apple :P At least they had a vision.  U change yours as suits e.g first a bank, then a market

Could you post the donation addy please? TY

This proves again that you cant figure anything out yourself and are reliable af

The whitepaper gives huge credit to all other code and is build upon it. Nothing wrong with that.

I suggest to leave shadow alone if u dont like it. We love it and its going to be huge :)

Is it a joke or is it really possible to deanonymize ShadowSend transactions?

If you (or anyone) deanonymize ShadowSend, you'll make sweet $1500. (http://shadowproject.io/bug-bounties) So go ahead, you're all encouraged.

Lol no its not possible. I'll play CH's little game as soon as I get all my wallets running and synced up.

BASICS:
1. Shadow uses 2 tokens, one like BTC (SDC) and the other like Crytonote (SDT).

2. SDC>SDT: All the currency is minted as SDC and the user can at will burn SDC to create an SDT token by making an SDC>SDT TX. This is NOT fully anonymous.

3. SDT>SDT: Once a user has created SDT (Cryptonote) tokens he can send an SDT>SDT TX which (at least theoretically since no code audit has been performed) is like a Monero (Cryptonote) TX and anonymises the sender and receiver and amount.

4. SDT>SDC send is there to burn your SDT tokens and create SDC: Why would you even do this? Only SDC stakes and there is no trading of SDT tokens. When this TX is sent the SDC are created in a newly generated address. This is NOT fully anonymous.

PROBLEMS: 
1. Whilst SDT tokens might be anonymous, SDC tokens are not and SDC tokens compromises the anonymity of the SDT tokens. Since we now the total supply of SDC at any given time, blockchain analysis tells us how many SDT are in circulation at any given time.  When the SDC supply drops we know the SDT supply has increased and vice versa. Studying the balances of SDC addresses on the blockchain as these fluctuations in SDC/SDT supply occur leaks information.

2. If a user burns a specific amount of SDC (e.g. 666.666) to create SDT and then the recipient burns them straight back to SDC minus tx fees (e.g. 666.566), blockchain analysis makes a clear connection. The fluctuations of SDC balances on the blockchain reveal information about SDT usage.

3. As a result of a user should create a larger pool of SDT which he occasionally spends from to increase his anonymity. Therefor a user's behaviour can increase or decrease the efficacy of the system's anonymity.

4. The system is far too convoluted for an average user and less anonymous than a crytonote coin.


CONCLUSION:
From the perspective of anonymity the only useful TX is an SDT>SDT TX which acts as a cryptonote/Monero TX. The SDC tokens which are destroyed to create SDT compromise the anonymity of the system and user since SDC>SDT and SDT>SDC leak information. As a clever friend pointed out, why even have two tokens? I believe Monero and CN coins to be more anonymous than ShadowCash. The lack of peer review, thin whitepaper and lack of proper discussion for ShadowSend strengthens this view.

.

Your entire argument is based on the monitoring of the total supply of SDC.
Which is a good argument if there is only 1 person destroying sdc for sdt and vice versa.

An increase in transaction volume (>1) destroys your argument.

Not to mention there is still no link between sender and receiver after all is said and done.

I really love it how you fail even in points you marked as "BASICS".

His argument was that converting the tokens weakens anonymity, which is true no matter the volume.

A specific scenario created by a specific illadvised behavior performed by two parties (converting the exact amount of SDT needed for a transaction immediately before sending while the recipient immediately converts back to SDC upon receipt) creates a potential link between input and output values (of two separate, different transactions broadcast on different blocks with a time difference dictated by the receiver), but not sender and reciever.

Operator errors can deanonymize every anonymous system currently being used today.

His argument is flawed at best ... if I want to buy something for $3.21, I do not go to the ATM and withdraw $3.21 .. I will withdraw $10 or $20 ...
Shadow works in the same way, you have a balance of Shadows (SDT) which you can then spend all day long leaving no trail.
Likewise if I am a seller I will not be running to the bank every-time I made a sale. I will deposit in a batch i.e. the same way you convert Shadows to SDC leaving no trail.

Rest of his points are also flawed but we already know his agenda so I will not waste my time.

I do not believe the argument to be flawed. As illodin distilled quite lucidly:
His argument was that converting the tokens weakens anonymity, which is true no matter the volume.

I dont know how you can dance around this so how about providing technical reasons why this is incorrect and why CN coins are not substantially more anonymous than Shadow, which I believe they are.

EDIT: Even you admit that a user is best to pool some SDT before spending them precisely because of the systems weakness which I have described. Relying on user awareness means the system is fatally flawed since users are dumb

Also your ATM example is flawed. In crypto one does not withdraw fixed sums (100, 500, 1000 etc) but rather pays in the specific amounts you describe (3.21, or 6.42 in escrow)

Step up and prove me wrong.

Additionally the SDT tokens compromise the SDC tokens. The more SDT in circulation the less SDC to secure the network and the less reliable SDC addresses totals become for non-data analysts.

The long and short of this is that the SDC compromises the SDT anonymity and the SDT comprises the SDC transparency and the overall network integrity.

FUN METAPHOR: BTC is a dog (leaving mess), XMR a cat (without trace). SDC is both in a bag. What could go wrong?




Oh really? And how exactly do I have the basics wrong? I'll bet I have spent much more time playing with this than you have my unicorn-riding friend. Please correct me and advise this community on my mistakes and I'll hold my hands up. Now bugger off.

It is wrong because you do not fundamentally understand how it works .. I am not here to teach you.

I did not admit any such thing, so stop trying to pretend I said something I did not.

My response earlier was "dummy" proof ... do I need to make it "idiot" proof?

Long and short of this is that "you are trying to punch above your weight on something you do not understand" - that is as blunt as I can put it.

This is funny since the joke is on you ;) Now go figure that a large % of XMR transactions have a mixin of 1 and what that means to anonymity ...

He is right, you do fail to understand the basics.
And what community? you, yourself and I? LMAO! Who are you trying to kid?

I'll make you a simple deal, I will prove how your assumptions are baseless and how your so called claim of XMR being more anonymous than Shadow is also baseless. You in exchange stop spreading baseless lies and close this thread leaving the Shadow community at peace. Be a man about it and lets put this to bed once and for all!

Okay Mr. Shadowchain detective,

Find the recipient of this:

http://shadowchain.info/block/05877f7e89448ab84da721f616fc9ec3316689694e0366be890a7393102f7618

Furthermore, can you tell me if any of those Shadow tokens have been spent? If so, how many? and by what addresses?

If you can show the original address where the SDC in this wallet came from, I'll give you a 1.3 Bitcoin.

http://shadowchain.info/address/SbTj6EyP95FKCuM8fCpq9excnWbniyBuMv

I could send 2 BTC to Bittrex and withdraw 1 BTC a day later and ask what is the original address and you wouldn't be able to tell.

WC: I asked for an SDC to SDT

dasource: I accept your terms. Prove me stupid.

The first link I posted has an SDC to SDT transaction.

CH

https://i.imgur.com/2PKoImH.gif


 ;)

I'll take a pop soon, been busy..  not that my efforts matter compared to an attacker who is actively monitoring the flow of traffic on the SDC blockchain...

In the meantime I'm waiting for someone to explain how the SDC tokens do not affect the anonymity of SDT tokens, which I believe they might. Certainly it provides clues where cryptonote coins do not. Users unfamiliar with Coin Control will leak even more data.

Comments?

Do you have anything to substantiate your claim other than "I think they might"? (I don't have time to read through this thread again).

SDC -> SDT transactions are only a means for a user to convert their public tokens to private tokens.
Even if you monitor the entire blockchain in real time, the recipient of an SDT -> SDT transaction cannot be linked to the sender.
The end.

Indeed.

SDT>SDT (Cryptonote) should be anon. That is not the issue. Never mind though since better minds are now dealing with this area. Faster than even I expected Ethereum appears to be PAC-MAN'ing (gobbling) the entire altcoin space: https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3tappe/early_alpha_monerolike_linkable_ring_signatures/

Farewell wheatclove.

Child, i have bee following sdc since it started, including all of your posts. about the only thing that is legit about you is your fucking name. why don't you run along and start your own perfect coin.

Sure.. :D :D :D

The word "thieves" springs to mind  :-\

The word "donation" comes to mind.

Are you in love, Wheatclove?

Yeah. Relevancy?

Quit followin' me around like a little bitch then..You are creepin' me out, dude! LEL!! WTF etc etc

But on the down-side;

-no playback controls
-must force quit
-QuickTime is a crap playback engine CPU-wise
-security?

Scratch the last one - irrelevant


**********
Re-posted here cause the SDC bus likes to delete

As above:
********

Oh and the invites to the private shadowmarket alpha are on offer
There will be no functional market till well into 2016 and Ethrreum just made Shadowsend in a few lines of script.
Welcome to November's End

**

What a load of bollox

Hey to everyone who follows this thread. I just wanted to improve your lives and introduce you to this awesome artist, Justin Bieber.

Here's one of his latest songs!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK_0jXPuIr0

 :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Peace and luv y'all!

If you read MRL0004 you might understand that you can´t just plugin a ringsig architecture without making it neccesary for everyone to use; Just pointing that out, whatever ETH adds it´s not the same if it´s not mandatory. The reason i point this out is just because there´s nothing worse in privacy solutions than snakeoil that makes people feel safe when they aren´t.

didnt shadow have a nice motherboard write up??? it looked legit, what happen? sorry i didnt read everything.

Yes, it does (have a write up). Yes, it is legit.

Go with either Motherboard article (http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-race-for-the-first-decentralised-silk-road-is-on) (or the DeepDotWeb (https://www.deepdotweb.com/2015/01/28/shadowcash-zero-knowledge-anonymity/) one if you want) or you can trust the delusional chaos of mr. child_harold/Wanderlust (and his other alter-egos).

Worst translation ever.

I didnt censor anything btw




Bite me bagholder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxnaPa8ohmM

Nice try.

Vitalik and the ETH team just made a better shadowsend and we'll see how strict CN coins fare. My hunch: not so good.

No they didn't make a "better" shadowsend. They made a much more limited proof of concept that is totally impractical to use. Even shadowsend is better than that (I think), though it is true they share many of the same weaknesses.

Precisely. You "think". Before too long the documentation of the Ethereum offering will eclipse Shadow's efforts and earn trust through proper peer review etc

That's exactly the point. No docs > no review > no trust.

It is not that anybody should trust me, rather that they have little or no reason to trust YOU.
I have raised many valid points in this thread all of which have been summarily ignored. More fool you.

At least smooth says he "thinks". Everything you say in contrast is rock-solid truth, no matter the reality, right?
I can't wait for ETH review. Hopefully they'll have one or you'll go on a rampage again.



Ehm, excuse me? I'm not saying anybody to trust me, but why exactly they shouldn't? I'm not spitting BS all around.

The only things you raised are your delusional theories. For the proper questions, you've received many answers, over and over again (both here and in official Shadow ANN thread). But you decided to ignore those, so don't act like we ignore you.
Instead of accepting those answers, you go and again spam these delusions, waving (your favourite) "red flags", shouting "scam" etc.

Nobody wants to speak with you, when you're not willing to listen. Do you get it?
I'm just having a laugh from all of this. Hope you do too, otherwise I feel bad for you :]

A shitty white paper and no peer review 12 months after the commission

No Sir, I will not abide.

When I say YOU I mean the Team

When the CInnicoin community was lost and asking about ZK ryno quietly launched SDC.

Unforgivable IMO

Child_Harold, I really don't get what you hope to gain by posting in this thread.  Do you expect an apology from the dev team? a refund?  The fact is you invested money into an extremely volatile industry and are now butthurt that it didn't make you rich, you need to accept that no one else is responsible for your misfortunes.  You may not like how the Shadow team has conducted itself, but the fact remains that it is still a legit project, like it or not.  To single out the Shadow project like you are, is to put it frankly juvenile.

So I reiterate, you have nothing to gain here, you are wasting your time slandering a project that has gotten some real work done and ignoring the mountain of scam coins that get made every day.

Stop this vendetta of yours, and get on with your damn life.

Maybe he doesn't hope to 'gain' anything and is just doing this as a hobby, which is the case for many of us here. There is nothing wrong with unmoderated discussion, especially when the main ANN thread for a coin is moderated. That alone is a red flag, you know?

Correct

I have no agenda... in the morning :)

PS it's not a hobby, it's a passion

Respect. I stand corrected.

Thank You smooth

Fine, at least we know your motives. Spitting dirt just for the fun of it with no goal at all.

I wonder what the definition of trolling is.

Being critical of a project is not "spitting dirt".

You act as if there is no such thing as a poorly managed or corrupt projects. That's clearly false. Whether Shadow is either or both of those is a legitimate question for debate, and certainly one that can't happen fairly on a moderated ANN thread.

Your argument will be more persuasive if you stick to the substance of the matter and avoid resorting to attacks on character or motives.

WTF u talking bout?

I was always into the TRUTH, a state which SDC was completely unable to provide.

Every Q I provide is met with the same hallmark of scam - defensive & aggressive & insecure replies to my salient points.

Being critical of a project is not "spitting dirt".

Fuck yeah

Jesus H Christ - how hard have I tried?…

If anybody deserves a clear answer it's me. F everybody elses opinion.

Every question you have ever asked has been answered.

Your inability to accept those answers and repetitively spam the same questions is hallmark of trolling, fudding, and an extremely vindictive agenda.

Smooth, the only reason you are here is because you want to make a competitor look bad, if this were a thread criticizing monero or aeon, I think you would most likely have agreed with my post.  I have many issues with the way monero has conducted itself, but nonetheless I respect that you and the rest of your team are professionals, and for that reason I don't waste my time slandering you, even if I take some issues about with how monero has been run.

As for calling a moderated thread a red flag well, should I start spamming the fuck out of this thread with memes? Would that make it obvious why a coin can't keep an un-moderated thread?  Keeping the main thread moderated is the only way to keep actually relevant information from getting buried in an ocean of fud and spam.

What I am hoping for is some amount of civility, and discussion that is not charged with emotion (particularly negative ones).  Child_Harold is now going out of his way to slander a specific project, one that despite thin documentation, has gotten some real work done.  This is not the type of discourse that is acceptable in a civilized society.

Neither Monero nor AEON has a moderated ANN thread, so you are free to discuss the positives and negatives those coins on their own ANN threads without any actual or appearance of thread-starter bias. Thus there is no need for an "uncensored" discussion thread about them. That is not the case for Shadow.

As for making a competitor look bad, I don't even consider Shadow much of a competitor as it is a proof-of-stake coin and a Bitcoin fork. I don't mean that as a put down either, it is just a completely different market segment. And in fact one of my recent posts on this thread has been in support of Shadow, and I've commented in support of it on various occasions in the past.

I'm mostly in favor of uncensored discussion and letting the chips fall where they may.


Both Monero and AEON (and many other coins) have unmoderated ANN threads which proves your statement untrue. Yes, they've had their issues with spam, trolling, etc. but open discussion coupled with the hard work of the neutral forum mods enforcing general forum rules generally keeps it under control.


If his claims are untrue or unsupported that should be apparent to the reader. I suggest you comment on the merits to that end instead of attacking him and his motives.

Hmmm…
Should I embarrass you by enumerating all the unanswered questions surrounding this project?

Tell me one more time my questions have been answered and Ill walk our readers through it all;

e.g. Is the Zeuner review still pending? Assuming it has been abandoned can I get a refund please (after 1 year of waiting)?
Why was the review abandoned? Why could a 9-man  team not satisfy 1 German reviewer? Why did the SDC Team not admit the CN roots of SSv2 from the outset? Where is the evidence of a vote taking place for a) the abandonment of the review or b) the reduction in emission after only a few days of PoW? Which CINNI community members were brought into SDC "early"? Is technovert even real?

Thar's just the beginning… shall I continue WC?

CH now speaking ill about SDC. Incredible.

Seriously , where have u been?

PS some posts ( at least one) have been removed from this thread  - not by me

Could I request that BCT mods let all posts posted remain posted? Thanks

No you can't request that the BCT mods ignore the forum rules. You could dispute their interpretation of forum rules in the Meta section

-Is Zuener still working on the review?
    - no he is not, and I actually do agree you should be refunded.
-Why was the review abandoned?
    - The review was abandoned for now because they decided to keep working on further additions instead of documentation, as we have have seen reduced ring signatures since then and an HD wallet.  I feel it was a good move to put the review on hold, maybe you disagree, but there is nothing nefarious about what they did.
-Why did the SDC Team not admit the CN roots of SSv2 from the outset?
    - To the best of my knowledge they did, the reference was in the whitepaper.
-  Where is the evidence of a vote taking place for
      a.) the abandonment of the review or
      b.) the reduction in emission after only a few days of PoW.
    - I don't recall a community vote for either of these, if they referred to a vote it was likely one within the dev team itself, I don't buy that they are  required to consult the community to make those kind of decisions

- As for your last 2 question, well they kind of go into the realm of conspiracy theory, and I cannot give an answer that would satisfy you.

Have things gone perfect for this coin? no I don't think they have, there have been real issues, but also real progress.  I think the team has vision, and if you decide you're not interested fine, but please drop the constant negativity towards this project.

P.S. they have been working on documentation, but it's not a priority, they feel that having that market out and working is more important, and I agree.  Besides the more work that is done, the more attention Shadow will get, and thus it will be easier to get the code reviewed.


Well Smooth I agree with "letting the chips fall where they may" to a point, but you have to understand that Shadow's original ANN thread was hit with some of the largest amount mudslinging I have ever seen on the net, and most threads I've seen are like that.  Monero's thread is 1411 pages long, kind of hard to sift though.  And hey, big surprise that you guys moved away this website for news and announcements and went to your own forum, and if Aeon picks up traction I'd be willing to bet you will do the same thing there.  Shadow's ANN thread is still its main announcement thread, and for that reason it makes perfect sense to keep it moderated.  If they move away from BTCT, well it might make sense to leave the thread unmoderated, but not right now.

I feel I may have come at you a bit strong before, you have said good things about the project, I shouldn't accuse you of slander, so I apologize for that.  That being said I feel most of Child_Harold's points are rooted in his own frustration than anything else, if the price were higher he wouldn't be complaining, he is offloading his financial frustration onto management decisions he disagrees with.

Now I really would love for this thread to just die, and that the tone of these discussions would just ease up a bit, I'm sure we'd all like that.

You've added a few questions that you've never previously asked.

Yes I can request... It's the whole point of this thread after all

My requests can be ignored but I started this thread for a reason

;)

If you're interested in discussing moderation, you should do it in the Meta section. If they see these posts discussing moderation here, they will correctly delete them.

No. It was all there. Answers please

Maybe so... But let the record show I tried to change it

Maybe your arguments will be more persuasive if you didn't spit dirt at the project every time you get the chance.  

And as for the moderated thread, has there been any questions you have posted in there that have been deleted or do you know of any questions that have not been answered in the thread, seriously what debate are we missing out on in the thread?  The only posts that have been deleted have been 100% fud posts like when they yell scam in huge red font.  

Are they your posts from your shill acc, i wouldn't put it past you because you have been calling Shadow a scam for over a year now, and guess what, the project is still going and your tactics haven't changed a bit.

I have given a lot of thought to this. I think that young passionate people are a majority of the people that make up the push for anon crypto which is the true endgame for crypto in most people's eyes.
Therefore it is important to keep in mind that motivation to emotionally troll is present through the following perspectives strictly:
a.  Former investor spiteful about losses
b.  Current investor wanting lower prices

Now the amount of trolling that SDC saw was insane. Excessive trolling can dilute a thread's content until there is no linear conversation available and due to this no progress or support or ideas and the thread is hosed. This is the point of trolling. But this is also the reason for the moderated thread. If you look back through the thread though you will notice that any legit criticisms or concerns or questions were left up. Only crazy tantrum bullcrap gets removed. Which is why I think this shit is so funny over here. It's like a constant bitch-fest about not being able to throw a bitch-fest in a more public setting on one of CH's 15 fucking accounts. And Smooth, it seems like you are just stoking the flames which is always fun to do but you should realize this guy is nuts by now right?

And to be clear the audit was a community effort if I remember right? Also - "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." comes to mind.

Also, BaxterJames you sexy son of a bitch!

Prove it, troll.