[SDC] ShadowCash Uncensored: Zeuner, Zero Knowledge, Zero Trust. What Happened?

[erok]

There are too many dicks on this thread to take it seriously. 8====D lol

PERHAPS.

And yet the dicks proffered were WC's, as usual.
…

What do you want from me? I have been duly diligent and linked  to all major items.

FACT: When CIINI was dying Ryno was launching another coin. To me personally this is unconscionable behavior

I have summarized the Shadow Play in 3 Acts:

I. Zeuner +Bad Whitepaper
II Unfair Launch
III Silky CINNI

smooth is cool btw and Id appreciate it if u (LongAndShort) didnt try to win the argument by casting the crazy brush.


PS You have FAILED to prove your worth and even admit your origins (CN). Your Whitepaper sucks and the red flags are abundant.

Until you PROVE otherwise, SDC is bollox, part BTC and part CN  with ill-documented everything… copy/paste +? Show Us…

while i agree with you about smooth being a cool dude i do not agree with your points at all. dev even shared in irc the reason why he helped out on darksilk. but dont connect strings that arent really there and dont claim an unfair launch. assumptions make an umption out of an ass or an opinion makes an elbow out of an ass or something to that extent. it literally could not have been fairer and created quite a rare gem in sdc since the mining was cut short due to a monster hasher. the past year has proved that there are some strong holders. you are looking at it wrong imho. but smooth is a neat dude. and you used to be too damnit. congrats on microsoft and eth though. i hope you held through the bad times or at least sold off and got back in more recently.

[rustynailer]

I cant believe what I am reading here CH.

Smooth is NOT cool, he is a lying, supertrolling, manipulating narcissist.  I thought you already knew that about him or have you forgotten about all the lies he helped spread about Shadow and ryno in particular, and true to form he has stuck the boot into Shadow in this very thread.

I know you will keep your eye on the ball because it is all about the tech after all, but dont expect a fair and unbiased view from your new buddy.

Good luck on the other side of the fence. 

[LucyLovesCrypto]

Does DarkSilk make SDC the next CINNI?

It seems to me that the most successful coins are the ones where the devs stay for the long term instead of jumping from coin to coin.

[Wanderlust]

Does DarkSilk make SDC the next CINNI?

It seems to me that the most successful coins are the ones where the devs stay for the long term instead of jumping from coin to coin.

Dunno

But I can see on official SDC ANN thread that Ryno is looking to raise 10BTC to keep developing thru November.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=745352.msg12831211#msg12831211
What happens in December?

[Wanderlust]

Let it go

SDC is 99% scam and it's final wall is being broken, thank God
e.g. No reply vs Cinni, No reply vs PoW change and No reply vs Zeuner scandal
Buy at your own peril..

[deliveryman]

Let it go

SDC is 99% scam and it's final wall is being broken, thank God
e.g. No reply vs Cinni, No reply vs PoW change and No reply vs Zeuner scandal
Buy at your own peril..

There has been a reply on Zeuner. He needs more documentation. And the documentation is being written as we speak.
Then again, the software being developed is open-source and I encourage everyone to do their own research. Fact is that the technology being written is proof that this coin is not a scam. Check the github repository yourself.

[Wheatclove]

Let it go

SDC is 99% scam and it's final wall is being broken, thank God
e.g. No reply vs Cinni, No reply vs PoW change and No reply vs Zeuner scandal
Buy at your own peril..

There has been a reply on Zeuner. He needs more documentation. And the documentation is being written as we speak.
Then again, the software being developed is open-source and I encourage everyone to do their own research. Fact is that the technology being written is proof that this coin is not a scam. Check the github repository yourself.

Meh the documentation isn't being written for Zeuner, but he might be able to use it. Ryno has never been in contact with Zeuner, I believe it was ffmad and trollsroyce who were communicating with him. The consensus in the SDC community is that Zeuner is either lazy, not competent enough to dissect the source code, or doesn't believe he is being compensated enough to take on the work which he originally offered to do for free (I admit the code is a brilliant uncommented mess, but it still isn't that difficult to comb through).

[Wanderlust]

Let it go

SDC is 99% scam and it's final wall is being broken, thank God
e.g. No reply vs Cinni, No reply vs PoW change and No reply vs Zeuner scandal
Buy at your own peril..

There has been a reply on Zeuner. He needs more documentation. And the documentation is being written as we speak.
Then again, the software being developed is open-source and I encourage everyone to do their own research. Fact is that the technology being written is proof that this coin is not a scam. Check the github repository yourself.

Meh the documentation isn't being written for Zeuner, but he might be able to use it. Ryno has never been in contact with Zeuner, I believe it was ffmad and trollsroyce who were communicating with him. The consensus in the SDC community is that Zeuner is either lazy, not competent enough to dissect the source code, or doesn't believe he is being compensated enough to take on the work which he originally offered to do for free (I admit the code is a brilliant uncommented mess, but it still isn't that difficult to comb through).

False

Ryno and Zeuner corresponded once upon a time

I want my Zeuner donation refunded NOW

Quit toying with us. admit a failure and reimburse the donors

The peer review boat sailed a long time ago..

Do It.. 0.3 BTC pls

[Wheatclove]

Let it go

SDC is 99% scam and it's final wall is being broken, thank God
e.g. No reply vs Cinni, No reply vs PoW change and No reply vs Zeuner scandal
Buy at your own peril..

There has been a reply on Zeuner. He needs more documentation. And the documentation is being written as we speak.
Then again, the software being developed is open-source and I encourage everyone to do their own research. Fact is that the technology being written is proof that this coin is not a scam. Check the github repository yourself.

Meh the documentation isn't being written for Zeuner, but he might be able to use it. Ryno has never been in contact with Zeuner, I believe it was ffmad and trollsroyce who were communicating with him. The consensus in the SDC community is that Zeuner is either lazy, not competent enough to dissect the source code, or doesn't believe he is being compensated enough to take on the work which he originally offered to do for free (I admit the code is a brilliant uncommented mess, but it still isn't that difficult to comb through).

False

Ryno and Zeuner corresponded once upon a time

I want my Zeuner donation refunded NOW

Quit toying with us. admit a failure and reimburse the donors

The peer review boat sailed a long time ago..

Do It.. 0.3 BTC pls

You're gonna have to ask Zeuner for it back I believe.

[Wanderlust]

Let it go

SDC is 99% scam and it's final wall is being broken, thank God
e.g. No reply vs Cinni, No reply vs PoW change and No reply vs Zeuner scandal
Buy at your own peril..

There has been a reply on Zeuner. He needs more documentation. And the documentation is being written as we speak.
Then again, the software being developed is open-source and I encourage everyone to do their own research. Fact is that the technology being written is proof that this coin is not a scam. Check the github repository yourself.

Meh the documentation isn't being written for Zeuner, but he might be able to use it. Ryno has never been in contact with Zeuner, I believe it was ffmad and trollsroyce who were communicating with him. The consensus in the SDC community is that Zeuner is either lazy, not competent enough to dissect the source code, or doesn't believe he is being compensated enough to take on the work which he originally offered to do for free (I admit the code is a brilliant uncommented mess, but it still isn't that difficult to comb through).

False

Ryno and Zeuner corresponded once upon a time

I want my Zeuner donation refunded NOW

Quit toying with us. admit a failure and reimburse the donors

The peer review boat sailed a long time ago..

Do It.. 0.3 BTC pls

You're gonna have to ask Zeuner for it back I believe.

I think u mean the Team should cancel the review and handle refunds with Zeuners assistance. Sorry Isidor

0.3 BTC is a decent sum these days and I have my living expenses too.

[systh]

Let it go

SDC is 99% scam and it's final wall is being broken, thank God
e.g. No reply vs Cinni, No reply vs PoW change and No reply vs Zeuner scandal
Buy at your own peril..

There has been a reply on Zeuner. He needs more documentation. And the documentation is being written as we speak.
Then again, the software being developed is open-source and I encourage everyone to do their own research. Fact is that the technology being written is proof that this coin is not a scam. Check the github repository yourself.

0.3 BTC is a decent sum these days and I have my living expenses too.

Meh the documentation isn't being written for Zeuner, but he might be able to use it. Ryno has never been in contact with Zeuner, I believe it was ffmad and trollsroyce who were communicating with him. The consensus in the SDC community is that Zeuner is either lazy, not competent enough to dissect the source code, or doesn't believe he is being compensated enough to take on the work which he originally offered to do for free (I admit the code is a brilliant uncommented mess, but it still isn't that difficult to comb through).

False

Ryno and Zeuner corresponded once upon a time

I want my Zeuner donation refunded NOW

Quit toying with us. admit a failure and reimburse the donors

The peer review boat sailed a long time ago..

Do It.. 0.3 BTC pls

You're gonna have to ask Zeuner for it back I believe.

I think u mean the Team should cancel the review and handle refunds with Zeuners assistance. Sorry Isidor

0.3 BTC is a decent sum these days and I have my living expenses too.

Do you usually take your donations back like this?

[Wanderlust]

Let it go

SDC is 99% scam and it's final wall is being broken, thank God
e.g. No reply vs Cinni, No reply vs PoW change and No reply vs Zeuner scandal
Buy at your own peril..

There has been a reply on Zeuner. He needs more documentation. And the documentation is being written as we speak.
Then again, the software being developed is open-source and I encourage everyone to do their own research. Fact is that the technology being written is proof that this coin is not a scam. Check the github repository yourself.

0.3 BTC is a decent sum these days and I have my living expenses too.

Meh the documentation isn't being written for Zeuner, but he might be able to use it. Ryno has never been in contact with Zeuner, I believe it was ffmad and trollsroyce who were communicating with him. The consensus in the SDC community is that Zeuner is either lazy, not competent enough to dissect the source code, or doesn't believe he is being compensated enough to take on the work which he originally offered to do for free (I admit the code is a brilliant uncommented mess, but it still isn't that difficult to comb through).

False

Ryno and Zeuner corresponded once upon a time

I want my Zeuner donation refunded NOW

Quit toying with us. admit a failure and reimburse the donors

The peer review boat sailed a long time ago..

Do It.. 0.3 BTC pls

You're gonna have to ask Zeuner for it back I believe.

I think u mean the Team should cancel the review and handle refunds with Zeuners assistance. Sorry Isidor

0.3 BTC is a decent sum these days and I have my living expenses too.

Do you usually take your donations back like this?

First time
Ryno et al have had almost 12 months to provide the docs ("the maths looks like Monero" P Todd's expert friend) and enough is enough.  

As far as I can tell SDC is BTC with a CN token. Not necessarily difficult to code and NOT innovative.

[systh]

Let it go

SDC is 99% scam and it's final wall is being broken, thank God
e.g. No reply vs Cinni, No reply vs PoW change and No reply vs Zeuner scandal
Buy at your own peril..

There has been a reply on Zeuner. He needs more documentation. And the documentation is being written as we speak.
Then again, the software being developed is open-source and I encourage everyone to do their own research. Fact is that the technology being written is proof that this coin is not a scam. Check the github repository yourself.

0.3 BTC is a decent sum these days and I have my living expenses too.

Meh the documentation isn't being written for Zeuner, but he might be able to use it. Ryno has never been in contact with Zeuner, I believe it was ffmad and trollsroyce who were communicating with him. The consensus in the SDC community is that Zeuner is either lazy, not competent enough to dissect the source code, or doesn't believe he is being compensated enough to take on the work which he originally offered to do for free (I admit the code is a brilliant uncommented mess, but it still isn't that difficult to comb through).

False

Ryno and Zeuner corresponded once upon a time

I want my Zeuner donation refunded NOW

Quit toying with us. admit a failure and reimburse the donors

The peer review boat sailed a long time ago..

Do It.. 0.3 BTC pls

You're gonna have to ask Zeuner for it back I believe.

I think u mean the Team should cancel the review and handle refunds with Zeuners assistance. Sorry Isidor

0.3 BTC is a decent sum these days and I have my living expenses too.

Do you usually take your donations back like this?

First time
Ryno et al have had almost 12 months to provide the docs ("the maths looks like Monero" P Todd's expert friend) and enough is enough.  

As far as I can tell SDC is BTC with a CN token. Not necessarily difficult to code and NOT innovative.

OK, so by your logic – if it's not difficult to code, how can it be difficult to review without the docs?

[sickandtired]

Support level and lack of transparency shows this is just another cinni mess waiting to happen https://i.imgur.com/mME5mr7.png

[Wheatclove]

Let it go

SDC is 99% scam and it's final wall is being broken, thank God
e.g. No reply vs Cinni, No reply vs PoW change and No reply vs Zeuner scandal
Buy at your own peril..

There has been a reply on Zeuner. He needs more documentation. And the documentation is being written as we speak.
Then again, the software being developed is open-source and I encourage everyone to do their own research. Fact is that the technology being written is proof that this coin is not a scam. Check the github repository yourself.

0.3 BTC is a decent sum these days and I have my living expenses too.

Meh the documentation isn't being written for Zeuner, but he might be able to use it. Ryno has never been in contact with Zeuner, I believe it was ffmad and trollsroyce who were communicating with him. The consensus in the SDC community is that Zeuner is either lazy, not competent enough to dissect the source code, or doesn't believe he is being compensated enough to take on the work which he originally offered to do for free (I admit the code is a brilliant uncommented mess, but it still isn't that difficult to comb through).

False

Ryno and Zeuner corresponded once upon a time

I want my Zeuner donation refunded NOW

Quit toying with us. admit a failure and reimburse the donors

The peer review boat sailed a long time ago..

Do It.. 0.3 BTC pls

You're gonna have to ask Zeuner for it back I believe.

I think u mean the Team should cancel the review and handle refunds with Zeuners assistance. Sorry Isidor

0.3 BTC is a decent sum these days and I have my living expenses too.

Do you usually take your donations back like this?

First time
Ryno et al have had almost 12 months to provide the docs ("the maths looks like Monero" P Todd's expert friend) and enough is enough.  

As far as I can tell SDC is BTC with a CN token. Not necessarily difficult to code and NOT innovative.

OK, so by your logic – if it's not difficult to code, how can it be difficult to review without the docs?

"As far as I can tell..."

Yet couldn't figure out how SDC used zero knowledge proofs until someone told him.

[deliveryman]

Y'all are too funny. Shadow is a p chill coin and when the market launches icw shadowsend u all going to cry that u didnt invest or took part in support

Ch indeed a child.

[child_harold]

Let it go

SDC is 99% scam and it's final wall is being broken, thank God
e.g. No reply vs Cinni, No reply vs PoW change and No reply vs Zeuner scandal
Buy at your own peril..

There has been a reply on Zeuner. He needs more documentation. And the documentation is being written as we speak.
Then again, the software being developed is open-source and I encourage everyone to do their own research. Fact is that the technology being written is proof that this coin is not a scam. Check the github repository yourself.

0.3 BTC is a decent sum these days and I have my living expenses too.

Meh the documentation isn't being written for Zeuner, but he might be able to use it. Ryno has never been in contact with Zeuner, I believe it was ffmad and trollsroyce who were communicating with him. The consensus in the SDC community is that Zeuner is either lazy, not competent enough to dissect the source code, or doesn't believe he is being compensated enough to take on the work which he originally offered to do for free (I admit the code is a brilliant uncommented mess, but it still isn't that difficult to comb through).

False

Ryno and Zeuner corresponded once upon a time

I want my Zeuner donation refunded NOW

Quit toying with us. admit a failure and reimburse the donors

The peer review boat sailed a long time ago..

Do It.. 0.3 BTC pls

You're gonna have to ask Zeuner for it back I believe.

I think u mean the Team should cancel the review and handle refunds with Zeuners assistance. Sorry Isidor

0.3 BTC is a decent sum these days and I have my living expenses too.

Do you usually take your donations back like this?

First time
Ryno et al have had almost 12 months to provide the docs ("the maths looks like Monero" P Todd's expert friend) and enough is enough.  

As far as I can tell SDC is BTC with a CN token. Not necessarily difficult to code and NOT innovative.

OK, so by your logic – if it's not difficult to code, how can it be difficult to review without the docs?

"As far as I can tell..."

Yet couldn't figure out how SDC used zero knowledge proofs until someone told him.

As far as I can tell… based on conversation and comments of experts

I am not a programmer or a cryptographer or even a mathematician. It is cripplingly obvious that I (and most of the people in here, including you) should rely on expert opinions and quality peer review.

I have no bloody idea how ring sigs truly work and my head spins when I read the Cryptonote whitepaper. I am not in any way ashamed to admit that I rely on people like Zeuner to tell me if the cryptography and implementation are secure.

Many months ago Peter Todd's friend said of ShadowSendv2 that the maths looks like Monero. This ties in with everything smooth has said and my own personal experiences of CN coins and what the blockchains and inputs/outputs look like. All CN coins and ShadowSend suffer from fiddly sending requirements; often you'll have to try different values to send until it gets accepted. Since ShadowSend appears to be a CN token on BTC the mechanism by which one token is destroyed to create the other is critical and introduces potential vulnerabilities and vectors for exploit which do not exist in either CN or BTC alone.

When chatting with the CompScience PhD (who is highly involved with bitcoin) I explained how Shadow used two tokens, SDC and SDT:

Doc: Why?
Me: Why what?
Doc: Why does Shadow use two tokens?
pause
Me: Cause otherwise it would be like Monero?
Doc smiles
Me: How difficult would that be to make?
Doc: Not necessarily so difficult at all

I was at first flummoxed by his Why two tokens? question. It was straight at the heart of the matter… what is even the point of it?

The SSv2 whitepaper has two names: Rynomaster and Tecnovert. Tecnovert is described as the "in-house cryptographer". Using the cryptographer title suggests an academic training which is not demonstrated in the whitepaper since everybody I have spoken to (and smooth) agree it is poorly written, incomplete and unclear.

Since Tecnovert has never posted anywhere and has a dead github account I have even considered the possibilty he does not exist. Since he cant produce a decent whitepaper whith Ryno its moot anyway since he cannot explain his own work.

Now can I get a refund please? It would do you better to handle this matter than for me to ping Zeuner myself.

[child_harold]

Y'all are too funny. Shadow is a p chill coin and when the market launches icw shadowsend u all going to cry that u didnt invest or took part in support

Ch indeed a child.

A market whitepaper should have been delivered before the market coding. And even when a whitepaper for the market is released it'll be written as poorly as its predecessors: ShadowChat (BitMessage clone), ShadowSend (CN clone)

I posit that NOBODY will TRUST such technology, or at least nobody should.

The upcoming alpha will not include decentralized escrow and is non-functional. I hope you do not plan to pump such incomplete tech, as pretty as it might seem.

[Wheatclove]

If you have even a basic understanding of algebra you can compare the equations in the Traceable Ring Signature paper, the Proofs of Partial Knowledge and Simplified Design of Witness Hiding Protocols, the Cryptonote 2.0 paper and the ShadowSend 2.0 paper.

Having to rely on "experts" makes you vulnerable to bad actors. You've chosen not to attempt to understand anything. Start small. Everything in computer science is very small things put together to build something larger. It's like a big lego set but instead of different sized blocks of different colors, you put together different sized blocks of different letters.

The dual token is used because Shadow originated as a public token on a public blockchain. If you don't think adding ring signatures and a second token to an existing codebase for the first time is a large undertaking for 3 part time developers, you need to take a step back.

Bottom line, the algorithm used by CryptoNote was not cloned to Shadow. Ring signatures, zero knowledge proofs exist in both and the algorithms have certain similarities due to the nature of integrating such cryptography. The devs main goal is a complete private financial platform, not cryptography research.

[systh]

<snip>

First time
Ryno et al have had almost 12 months to provide the docs ("the maths looks like Monero" P Todd's expert friend) and enough is enough.  

As far as I can tell SDC is BTC with a CN token. Not necessarily difficult to code and NOT innovative.

OK, so by your logic – if it's not difficult to code, how can it be difficult to review without the docs?

I'm still waiting for your answer. WE demand answer! No, I DESERVE answer! Why won't you answer me? What are you hiding? Aaaaa big red flag! You're a scam, you know?

..sounds familiar? /s

How are we supposed to take you seriously when even you don't play by your rules?