I would recommend this calculator:

http://btcinvest.net/de/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php


It lets you set an increase per jump aswell as an amount by which this increase decreases. (Aswell as time to deployment etc.)

@michal1

Every customer would need to sue Bitmine themselves (with legal fees way in excess of 1000$), this cost will not be awarded to you if you win the case.

You would have to argue your case in Italian.

It should be easier to just try and recieve 2* your ordered hashpower or transfer your order to cloudhashing.


Finally, if Bitmine should become bankcrupt (there is no reason it should right now) you will sit on your additional expenses for a lawyer and no compensation at all.

Not really, as you are not being (intentionally) scammed.

The only thing you could theoretically do is hire a swiss lawyer, pay him lots of money (and I mean way more than 1000$ for a whole court case) to maybe try and make Bitmine refund you.

The Swiss legal system doesn´t usually award the cost of a lawyer to the winning party, and Bitmine is situated in a state where you would have to argue your court case in Italian, so have fun with that.


For most of you who haven´t exactly gotten $50k tied up at bitmine, it would most likely be more cost efficient (for you) to find some solution with bitmine, such as extra hash power or conversion to cloud-hashing.

They can do with the unit what they want until they ship it to you, which is when ownership is transferred to you.

They can mine on it to make sure it is stable, or play football with it as long as you get your working unit shipped by the agreed date.

Yes, but at the end of the day a company isn´t a charity but it is there to turn a profit.

Apart from that, the massive organisation required would be through the roof.

Big and / or Chinese companies aren´t exactly known for their transparency.

Bitmain has never lied to a customer and there is a reason why delivery timeframes are given.

They are also much more transparent than many other companies in the bitcoin mining sector.

It is made to order. (Otherwise you are also preordering freshly squeezed orange juice as it doesn´t exist at the time of ordering)
Bitmain has a working prototype and chips in hand, it is therefore not a preorder.

Seriously, are you complaining that Bitmain will ship within their promised timeframe?

Isn´t getting a newly built unit better than having a used one delivered?

The complaints were always "mimimi, my unit already has dust on it and has been used for two months".

To be honest, most servers and some miners (probably including the sp10) can handle high temperatures, it is variance in temperatures that puts much more stress on a unit.

You will typically see failure of chips / units right after bigger temperature spikes (or when they come down again), but you should be fine afterwards.

Don´t worry too much about 1 broken asic on a 192 chip unit...
I own one sp10 where 9 chips were disconnected from the very first day, and I am still getting my 1.5TH on it.

The costs are estimated in the prospectus, basically 0.01kW is *7$ for capacity only, and around 2.5*that for capacity plus miners.

1 tank aka the minimum amount for direct investment (~100kW) is therefore ~$70k for capacity alone.


BTW, why is one tank billed as being 100kW according to the statement
It should really be at least ~200kW per tank....

Sure, I will have a first day sp30. (as i also had a first day sp10)
As for shipping dates, I estimate July batch at the end of July, and August presumably early/mid August and late August.

Spondoolies offered ( and maybe still does ) a 10% rebate for people with other miners on order.

AFAIK it was not offered on the very first days of the very first bundle (March / July), which was ~$15K.


The numbers (which are basically the same than I posted) look fine.

The first bundle (sp30 July) was $14950 and afaik there was no 10% rebate option. It comes with free shipping.

The 3*sp30 bundle was $18950 after rebate, and includes 2 months hosting for each unit.

The single August sp30 (non-groupbuy) was ~$10k before rebate.

The groupbuy sp30 was $4500 after 10% rebate and includes either shipping or 1 month hosting.

2nd batch August units were $5395 before 10% rebate (if that was offered) and without shipping (shipping cost is 300$).


All the other prices for available hardware should be on the homepage.

No, the first ones are the bundle sp10March+sp30July ones.

Then in August the 3*sp30 bundle aswell as sp10+sp30August and afterwards the groupbuy ones for August.

End of July, but you would have to give me $10K for that one    

The problem is that nobody will sell them under the price they bought them at 

He isn´t serious. He is trying to prove some point aka "this is a bad investment...blablabla...."

Sure, if you can find anyone willing to sell

Well, around 40°C seems like a violation of any normal DC cold aisle temperature....

It truly seems less than professional, I dont know any DC that would allow cold aisle temperatures above 30°C.
(which would be the maximum temperature according to TOS, and should never be reached)

This shows that HVAC engineering isn´t trivial at all, and professionally equipped facilites (rightfully) charge more for these services.

I have been very pleased with Advanias´services so far, and my unit hasn´t reached more than 22°C, while intake temperature is usually between 18°C and 20°C (in summer!).


While the upcoming sp30s should be a little less temperature sensitive (increased airflow per W / less leakage at higher chip temperatures), cooler units should again guarantee maximum performance.

Quoting chip costs is a stupid idea, as you have to compare the costs for a finished miner.
Why? Because different chip designs need different additional components, with different price "per GH"...

40nm chips are usually cheaper per area and therefore around the same price per GH. (wafer cost!)

If you want to know the chip costs, you would need to try and buy an enormous amount of chips from spondoolies, as the price will then quite accurately reflect their internal cost + small profit.

The actual chip aka wafer costs shouldn´t differ too much from industry standard wafer costs, and you could actually calculate them when you know the area of the chips.

The NRE should also be around 2-5M$, which would be the ballpark for 28nm bitcoin mining asics.


You will most likely not get spondoolies to tell you their internal chip costs,
a) because it would be bad for business and
b) it depends on the volume they sell, which they don´t know yet.

Finally, what would you do with their internal cost? It obviously isn´t the price of finished hardware, neither the chip price for customers (big/small).

The preorder funds are needed to buy all additional parts and labour, aswell as chip packaging etc.

It is further used to gauge the exact number of wanted units at a certain amount in time.

This has been debated repeatadly in this thread, so please spare us another round of circular argument.


The funds are not needed for the actual NRE costs and spondoolies only accepts them because they are very certain of the quality of their product.

Therefore, they dont need them for a product that isn´t even announced yet, and it isn´t even clear how this will be sold to customers.

Hold your horses there, first you criticize them for taking preorders, now you want them?

There is obviously no need for preorders, as they are still in the design phase.
Furthermore, nobody knows how the mining equipment market will look like at the end of this year.

Price is driven by supply and demand. Nobody forces you to buy this product.

If they aren´t sold by September, I am sure that spondoolies will lower the price. So far, sales seem to be going well though.


I also call BS on AM current generation at 0.6W/GH at the wall.
You would need special low voltage transistors and severe underclocking to achieve that on this chip design.

Please provide a quote or source for that assumption though, if it indeed was said by AC.