When the time comes to redeem those coupons, where will those PayCoins come from? Will those be premined or not?
Don't say 5 PH/s, because throwing lots of hashpower won't make mining faster, difficulty adjustment takes care of that.
Who else is going to be mining? Only GAW knows the exact moment they will release the coin and start POW mining phase. Wait a minute... are you going to try your hand at mining? I thought you guys were all against paycoin? |
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Your "business school 101" is really a high school class on keeping suckers happy. A good scam artist (let's leave the P word aside to avoid dumb word games) keeps the early adopters happy so the purse is nice and fat to handle the ups and downs of running a business that is legitimate on paper but exploitative and small-minded in practice.
This again? There are hundreds of examples of people doing very well without a college degree. Entrepreneurship isn't something that's learned in a class. You have to go out and earn your stripes. Some people have just got the knack. Is Josh one of them? The jury is still out, but he's started and sold off successful companies despite the naysayers here. Wow, I take a long sleep to address some jetlag and some interesting characters come out of the wood work. Although the first part of your statement may be somewhat factual, your second sentence is not. Scott- My second sentence was "There are hundreds of examples of people doing very well without a college degree." I'm pretty sure you aren't debating this fact. So maybe you meant my third sentence "Entrepreneurship isn't something that's learned in a class." What do you disagree with? |
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I just want someone to show their proof of a ponzi... until then... you are doing nothing but running your mouth. You don't understand anything about basic business fundamentals, that much is obvious.
Isn't paying out "mining earnings" using new investor funds the definition of a ponzi? Ok, where is the proof of this? If you aren't a regular on the HT forums, then you are not aware that the general population reveals that they invest, and re-invest over and over again. These are existing customers who keep giving money to GAW. Or are you expecting someone to show you proof something (the hardware) doesn't exist?
I've already given my opinion on how GAW had been operating. They rent out mining hardware to other companies. I'm assuming your opinion is that there is no mining hardware at all? Say what you mean, and mean what you say. |
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If we are all so wrong why does anything we say or do matter to you all anyway.
I know you didn't reply to me... but I do it because it's fun. What else am I going to do sitting in a hotel room on a business trip? |
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[ The very definition of a Ponzi scheme is that old investors are paid profits from the (new money) provided by subsequent investors. Here comes the enlightenment. Thanks. But I didn't say anything about new investors. Go back and re-read. What I stated is that GAW has cleverly created a system to keep their existing customers, and getting them to reinvest and put more of their own money in. So, in your informed opinion, GAW is not a Ponzi **only** because the "new money" used to fund profits of the early investors is coming (somewhat) from existing investors rather than new investors? Wow. Just wow. That is some kind of logic. You got me beat there. It is so obvious. Can't believe I missed that. I just want someone to show their proof of a ponzi... until then... you are doing nothing but running your mouth. You don't understand anything about basic business fundamentals, that much is obvious. |
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Not premining, so those Hash Points people are expecting to spend to get coins early...? You've proved you are a shill, just move along.
Man, you guys need to spend more time reading this thread. Hashpoints are not pre-mine... they are coupons. To be spent on PayCoin. So how do they give them PayCoin for HashPoints if they're not premining? And lal the big investors under "NDA" that spent millions? Shill on sir Give who paycoins? There are no paycoins yet! All that has been happening is that hashlet customers are earning coupons to be redeemed for Paycoins after GAW mines their share. The big investors don't have any paycoins either, only a guarantee to buy paycoins for (we are assuming) $2 from GAW's mined share. |
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You are correct.. The examples are endless.. Dyslexia is a good quality as well to be successful. Its a fact.. The facts here are clouded by BULLSHIT.. He needs to keep his mouth shut and show everyone with actions he is capable of leading a company to success. He has not impressed anyone so far..
Actually... he's impressed thousands of customers. But I agree, actions speak louder than words. The problem is, Josh is young, brash, and egotistical. These are usually pretty good qualities for a serial entrepreneur. In my opinion, you should let your product do the talking for you, and let your marketing/PR firms handle the rest. |
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Sigh. Not that I'm shocked you didn't understand what I wrote... but ok... Clearly you do not understand what a Ponzi is. I'm sure you will enlighten me below, completely ignoring what I actually wrote. While I hate feeding trolls, it would be sad if anyone read your post and thought you made a point. If this is what you learned in b-school, you should ask for a tuition refund. I need help here... you attempt to insult me, yet think that I am a troll? The very definition of a Ponzi scheme is that old investors are paid profits from the (new money) provided by subsequent investors. Here comes the enlightenment. Thanks. But I didn't say anything about new investors. Go back and re-read. What I stated is that GAW has cleverly created a system to keep their existing customers, and getting them to reinvest and put more of their own money in. IF that is what is going on at GAW, its a Ponzi pure and simple. Note that I am not saying that is what GAW is doing, but you are saying it is and if you believe that you should run. No, I'm not saying it is. Please go back and re-read. |
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Not premining, so those Hash Points people are expecting to spend to get coins early...? You've proved you are a shill, just move along.
Man, you guys need to spend more time reading this thread. Hashpoints are not pre-mine... they are coupons. |
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Thanks for contributing to the conversation without actually looking at the situation. Maybe you should go look at my account over there and what I actually posted. Your response displays a lack of knowledge of the context.
Link please? Ok, so I read the thread... my point still stands. |
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Boy the shill accounts are really coming out full force now that everything is coming to light with GAW
Yea it's interesting they show up around the same time.. Especially since people on HT have been getting "aware" of their current situation recently. Or they're here because hashtalk has been inaccessible for long periods of time, and they feel the need to post somewhere about the object of their affections. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm here because the conversation is at least interesting. |
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Your "business school 101" is really a high school class on keeping suckers happy. A good scam artist (let's leave the P word aside to avoid dumb word games) keeps the early adopters happy so the purse is nice and fat to handle the ups and downs of running a business that is legitimate on paper but exploitative and small-minded in practice.
This again? There are hundreds of examples of people doing very well without a college degree. Entrepreneurship isn't something that's learned in a class. You have to go out and earn your stripes. Some people have just got the knack. Is Josh one of them? The jury is still out, but he's started and sold off successful companies despite the naysayers here. |
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I'm confused now. So which is it, do they rent out the excess hash power or do they sell it off? Uhh... both. The landscape has been changing the past few months. Where have you been? They rent out hash power at a negotiated price with other companies, they make up the differences by charging hashlet owners maintenance in return for a admittedly made up number for daily payouts. All the while, those contracts have been expiring because those cloud mining companies use their profits to buy real hardware so they don't have to rely on GAW's. GAW sees that these contracts are getting harder to re-sign due to declining profits in scrypt mining especially, and rather than plod on, they are selling it off as they get their hashlet customers off on staking. And what does it have to do with maintenance fees, we are talking about hashpower that doesn't have "hashlet owners" anymore, i.e. remaining after staker conversion. No, there are still regular hashlet owners. The big push was getting people to switch to hashpoints, so they didn't have to retain as much physical hardware to back up the virtual miners. Then they convinced people to convert their primes and will do the same with the solo hashlets as much as possible. Why do I have the feeling you're making this all up? I provide links with what I post, at the very least you should do the same if you continue to insist on your unproven (in my opinion and based on sources I find) statements.
I guess you just aren't understanding what I'm posting. I'll try harder. |
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I've been saying this many many times now: before it goes public you don't Need to "mine" you can set diff to zero increment and have as many coins generated in seconds.
I got chill stories like:
1) GAW does not intend to compete with its customers
2) GAW does intend to compete with its customers
i don;t know what, talk about vaporware, this is is helium!
You must have missed the fact that GAW will be mining their coins. They are not pre-mining. If you point 5PH at a new coin, you will mine the shit out of it before anyone else gets up and running. |
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Wouldn't charging for a staking wallet essentially make Gawminers a pyramid scheme, especially since they always claim they don't have many but they have unlimited amounts.
It would take 2 minutes to change the source code so that you have more staking wallets, why does he always have to lie to people?
A hashstaker is not a normal wallet that you can download. What you are getting is a share of one of GAW's prime controllers. You will be able to get a normal ordinary wallet at the public launch. It doesn't have the same abilities or profit potential of a prime controller share. You'd still get 5% APY once the coins you stake age 30 days. |
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Thanks for contributing to the conversation without actually looking at the situation. Maybe you should go look at my account over there and what I actually posted. Your response displays a lack of knowledge of the context.
Link please? |
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Where does all the cash come from? It came from the customers themselves! People buying hashlets directly, their 10% cut of market sales, hashstaker sales, etc.
No, that would be a Ponzi scheme, almost by definition. No... that's called business. All business tries to keep their existing customers to keep a steady stream of money coming in. Getting new customers is harder. Ponzis do it by making outrageous claims (yes, I already know what you are going to reply here.) GAW has setup a business where they get people to continuously re-invest... that's business school 101. The initial cash comes from the fund. Since about half of Paycoins will be immediately staked, GAW is betting that they have enough support in that fund to withstand the initial massive dump. Correct. only about 5-ish million of the initial 12-ish million will be to ZenCloud miners. The vast majority of coins will be staked in the primes from their "market maker" investors. After that, the value added is the ability for cryptocurrency to do what Apple Pay and Paypal do, only much more cheaply. The transaction costs are so much lower with crypto that there will be incentive to use the system, and companies/people will buy coins, thus providing the cash. Paycoin will be chosen over other crypto because its tiered system allows for instant transactions with low overhead and because the price support will add stability to the coin's value relative to other currencies.
At least, that's the theory. As should be obvious, there are a lot of ways this could go sour.
Agreed. The ICO is just a small part of the whole paycoin economy. The hard work is going to be over the next 6 months to get traction for the coin. GAW has their work cut out for them, but if the launch is successful and you have interesting concepts in Paybase, where people can pay bills, use their Visa gift card, convert funds easily... they will start out way ahead of other coin launches. |
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Once the coin is released and thousands upon thousands paycoins are dumped and the wall becomes thinner and thinner and people mine the hell out of the coin just to dump it, where it the wall then?
No one will want to buy paycoins in the future, it offers nothing innovative and its completely useless.
The POW stage will be pretty short. The difficulty will rise really fast at launch because GAW will point their 5PH at it at a minimum. So home miners won't get much of anything. Data Centers pointed to it will only exacerbate the POW problem for home miners. GAW HAS BENT OVER BACKWARDS TO TRY AND SATISFY THEIR CRITICS?
They have done nothing at all to satisfy us, and he keeps on mentioning that everything is hidden for 'competitive' reason...
It has to be hidden because he doesn't want to go to jail for lying/scamming individuals.
You don't need to hide the amount of miners you have or mining addresses, what are competitors going to do with that.
So they aren't as transparent as *you* require them to be? |
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So in your opinion GAW's business model involves renting out "hashing power" at below market value so that others could make money off it? How does that make sense? Because they make up the difference in maintenance fees from the hashlet owners. Yes, this is related to the Zenpool "negotiations", and moving the customers over to stakers. They don't need as much hardware. Mining POW just isn't that profitable right now. |
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Just one follow up on this, so GAW receives 100M$ in funding, let their customers mine HP / paycoin, i have seen the 4$ figure stated as the price of mining one PC worth of HP.
Why will GAW then use the investors fund to let the miners sell them back for a 500% profit? What is the business sense in this?
They could just create any amount of coins they want in the genesis block for nothing, right?
I think there is only 2 options:
a) GAW is a very generous company that will give out profits to customers like charity, until they run out of money
b) It is all a big lie, painted with a lot of advanced words and Prime controllers, stakers, etc etc to create the needed smoke and mirror effect for some completely different business objective
Well that's why they want you to stake them instead of dump them. If they are staked then they can't be dumped. |
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