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You might be pushing it with that PSU. Each 6970 uses around 250W, and if you have four of them, they will be pulling close to 1000W on their own, then plus any overclocking you are doing . . .
Do you have a kill-a-watt that you can measure at draw?
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One problem is that the word Root is a swear word in at least one english speaking country. I as far as I know anyway. Maybe it's route that's the swear. An Australian will be able to correct me if I'm wrong. But from what I've been told it's worse than f*ck.
I can confirm that calling this coin "Root" would be the same as calling it "Fuck" from an Australian perspective. You might want to try some social expermentation with the name.. I did.. before Bitcoins went mainstream When I explained to people that I was "mining" "bitcoins", I was an eccentric involved in a madcap scheme, but at least it kept me occupied and off the streets. When I explained to people I was recieving a small reward in "Binary Trading Credits" for "securing the BTC decentralised network by cross-checking and generating SHA256 encryption" I was a highly intelligent individual involved in the cutting edge of technology .... Don't take my world for it.. Try it for yourself and see what the results are.. P.S Good work on the retarget rate.. we used to hop pools.. now we hop currencies.. Wow, I learn something every day. . . no idea 'Root' was a curse word in Australia! Name will change, it's just a place holder, I'm going to do a community vote soon.  Had some name suggestions in the 6-week announcement thread from May 3rd. |
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Am I missing something. Is the block reward glued to the square root of the difficulty indefinately? That would create a situation where at difficulty 1M the block reward will be 1000, this is hyperinflationary to anyone who mined @ br 100, will likely cause everybody to sell mined coins immediately and very few people to want the devaluing coins. Please correct me.
Currently, yes the block reward would be glued to the square root forever. While at difficulty 1,000,000 the reward would be 1,000, each coin would be much harder to mine (10x harder, as 1000 would be produced for each 1M block, and each 1M block is 100x harder to mine than a 10K block) and so the coins would enjoy a gain in value over time, without the hard explosion (and subsequent crashes) that other Cryptocurrencies have had to deal with. Essentially, it is playing supply and demand economics with a twist. The more demand, the more supply, but supply doesn't scale in a linear fashion. The non-linear scaling makes faster hardware not cause hyperinflation (as a 1:1 reward would, as more coins per $ would be made in the future), however the scaling does mean that early adopters won't be the only people to make a profit, and large market swings will be reduced. It would take a 100x increase in the total mining hardware on the network to boost up the block reward by x10, and therefore the coins do become more valuable over time. However, people aren't as likely to dump them quickly (mined 1000 roots in 6 months, now that 6 months of time with the same hardware would only get 100 coins, let's say) as it would not be as sharp of an inflation that a fixed-difficulty coin (such as has been seen with Bitcoin) experiences. Hopefully that clears it up? It's a bit hard to explain.  Everything you said about requiring more hardware with respect to difficulty increase can be said of any coin. But almost all other coins have a constant block reward. Root block rewards increase proportional to difficulty. Hence, it is hyperinflationary. Moreover, there is too much 'hand-waving' in your argument. You assume demand will be there when and if difficulty reaches 1 million, but it's quite possible for miners to mine and raise difficulty strictly out of profitability relative to all other coins. If I drew the graph of Root's price versus time, it will tend to zero rather quickly, whether you like it or not... Yes, the difference with the increased hardware is that that increase in hardware is now pinned to the block reward as well. Inflation of a currency is when a currency's buying power is reduced. With fixed-reward currencies, the buying power increases at ridiculous rates as difficulty increases. For example, one Bitcoin back in January was worth around $20-$30, and had that much buying power. Since the supply of Bitcoin doesn't increase with increasing demand, we end up with one Bitcoin at one point being worth over $250, a 10x jump in a matter of months! With 'root', however, the block reward would increase with increased demand, so while the value would still go up and down, it would correct faster (buffer), as with less profitability, less people mine, so less coins are produced an hour, and vice-versa. It's true we don't know what it will really do once it hits the market, but seeing the economic patterns Bitcoin has taken, it makes sense for root to work. The main force that would cause its price to drop to ridiculous lows would be a general lack of interest in the coin. The coin's economic ideas itself would not run it into the ground, as it adjusts to supply/demand. It wouldn't be hyperinflationary, but instead would be anti-deflationary. Compared to Bitcoin, it would be inflating, but when pinned to fiat it would simply resist movement in both directions. Our view of currency has been slightly skewed by Bitcoin. A currency usually does not deviate as much as Bitcoin has, and when a coin makes less profit for initial investors it could be considered inflationary relative to Bitcoin, but the currency would not lose buying power, but instead would not gain as much, increasing its stability. Here is the scenario in my mind. The coin is released to decent fan fair and eventually makes it onto an exchange. Lets assume it's very profitable to mine. This adds relatively more supply than a constant block reward coin. Consequently this supply hits the exchange. After some time, whatever it may be, this supply will depress Root's price. Depressed enough and it will no longer be profitable to mine. So miners pursue another coin. Thus the network hash rate decreases, and likewise, so does the block reward. Consequently it's not going to be profitable ever again unless Root's price rises. And here is where your crucial assumptions take place. You assume because incoming supply will be cut off so that demand will easily prop up the price. But even if it does, the cycle is too visible! Traders can wait until the block rewards was back to one, then slowly accumulate Root, eventually pushing up the price. And if the price elevates to such an extent that it actually become profitable to mine, well then you will have not only the supply of traders taking profits but of this next batch of miners aiming to make some profit. Hence the price of Root will be depressed again and the cycle continues, but with more supply on each cycle. Over time Root's price will have a sequence of lower highs and lower lows, tending to zero. This scheme leads to an unstable equilibrium. Root may start off how you planned, but the moment it is no longer profitable to mine, the sequence of lower highs and lower lows will begin. That is possible, and does bring an interesting point to the table. |
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This is a terrible idea, and I don't think there is anyone stupid enough to buy it. Exponential dumping = hyperinflation
Why would exponential dumping occur in a system that buffers within a profitability range? |
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Am I missing something. Is the block reward glued to the square root of the difficulty indefinately? That would create a situation where at difficulty 1M the block reward will be 1000, this is hyperinflationary to anyone who mined @ br 100, will likely cause everybody to sell mined coins immediately and very few people to want the devaluing coins. Please correct me.
Currently, yes the block reward would be glued to the square root forever. While at difficulty 1,000,000 the reward would be 1,000, each coin would be much harder to mine (10x harder, as 1000 would be produced for each 1M block, and each 1M block is 100x harder to mine than a 10K block) and so the coins would enjoy a gain in value over time, without the hard explosion (and subsequent crashes) that other Cryptocurrencies have had to deal with. Essentially, it is playing supply and demand economics with a twist. The more demand, the more supply, but supply doesn't scale in a linear fashion. The non-linear scaling makes faster hardware not cause hyperinflation (as a 1:1 reward would, as more coins per $ would be made in the future), however the scaling does mean that early adopters won't be the only people to make a profit, and large market swings will be reduced. It would take a 100x increase in the total mining hardware on the network to boost up the block reward by x10, and therefore the coins do become more valuable over time. However, people aren't as likely to dump them quickly (mined 1000 roots in 6 months, now that 6 months of time with the same hardware would only get 100 coins, let's say) as it would not be as sharp of an inflation that a fixed-difficulty coin (such as has been seen with Bitcoin) experiences. Hopefully that clears it up? It's a bit hard to explain. Everything you said about requiring more hardware with respect to difficulty increase can be said of any coin. But almost all other coins have a constant block reward. Root block rewards increase proportional to difficulty. Hence, it is hyperinflationary. Moreover, there is too much 'hand-waving' in your argument. You assume demand will be there when and if difficulty reaches 1 million, but it's quite possible for miners to mine and raise difficulty strictly out of profitability relative to all other coins. If I drew the graph of Root's price versus time, it will tend to zero rather quickly, whether you like it or not... Yes, the difference with the increased hardware is that that increase in hardware is now pinned to the block reward as well. Inflation of a currency is when a currency's buying power is reduced. With fixed-reward currencies, the buying power increases at ridiculous rates as difficulty increases. For example, one Bitcoin back in January was worth around $20-$30, and had that much buying power. Since the supply of Bitcoin doesn't increase with increasing demand, we end up with one Bitcoin at one point being worth over $250, a 10x jump in a matter of months! With 'root', however, the block reward would increase with increased demand, so while the value would still go up and down, it would correct faster (buffer), as with less profitability, less people mine, so less coins are produced an hour, and vice-versa. It's true we don't know what it will really do once it hits the market, but seeing the economic patterns Bitcoin has taken, it makes sense for root to work. The main force that would cause its price to drop to ridiculous lows would be a general lack of interest in the coin. The coin's economic ideas itself would not run it into the ground, as it adjusts to supply/demand. It wouldn't be hyperinflationary, but instead would be anti-deflationary. Compared to Bitcoin, it would be inflating, but when pinned to fiat it would simply resist movement in both directions. Our view of currency has been slightly skewed by Bitcoin. A currency usually does not deviate as much as Bitcoin has, and when a coin makes less profit for initial investors it could be considered inflationary relative to Bitcoin, but the currency would not lose buying power, but instead would not gain as much, increasing its stability. |
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The post two posts above mine (by crymo), is why you have to make self-moderated threads these days. You can delete the complete troll posts yourself that add absolutely nothing to the discussion.
On topic, I'm looking forward to it. Looks really well thought out.
Self moderated post can delete even messages warning about a trojan on the client. If I see a coin launches as "self moderate" I don't trust it. Yeah, I decided self-moderating looked bad on my part, and people have the right to troll of discredit the idea if they wish, that is essentially the definition of free speech. |
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Yes Nolo, it's another innovative coin. Even 15y old kid can do better. I'm tirred of 5 new coins every day. Just make something inovative or keep it for yourself.
Someone change 3lines of code and call it a new coin.
Can that same 15 year old child use proper grammar and spelling? If you don't like the coin, don't mine it. Vorksholk has been a long time member of this community and I'm anxious to see what he's able to produce. The fact that is IS an old time member is what makes this especially embarrassing. Another coin that brings nothing new to the table purely for profit with an arbitrary block reward and gimmicky name. No thx. The point of the currency is to introduce two new economic ideas (balancing supply and demand, and buffering against sharp changes in relation to fiat), and aims to not provide quick pump-and-dump profits. The block reward is well-thought-out, and early adopter profit is lower than every other coin around today. I understand the hostility towards new currencies that threaten the "status-quo," but it's not an attempt at quick profits, rather at trying new economic ideas based on what we have learned from the others. And the name is gonna change Also, the coin is far pre-announced (6 weeks is the record so far), has zero premine, and the starting blocks give very small rewards, in an attempt to make the coin not pump-n-dumpable. However, the beauty of the free market is that if you don't like an idea, concept, product, currency, etc. you have every right in the world to yell about it at the top of your lungs, or ignore it, whichever is most fun. |
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Am I missing something. Is the block reward glued to the square root of the difficulty indefinately? That would create a situation where at difficulty 1M the block reward will be 1000, this is hyperinflationary to anyone who mined @ br 100, will likely cause everybody to sell mined coins immediately and very few people to want the devaluing coins. Please correct me.
Currently, yes the block reward would be glued to the square root forever. While at difficulty 1,000,000 the reward would be 1,000, each coin would be much harder to mine (10x harder, as 1000 would be produced for each 1M block, and each 1M block is 100x harder to mine than a 10K block) and so the coins would enjoy a gain in value over time, without the hard explosion (and subsequent crashes) that other Cryptocurrencies have had to deal with. Essentially, it is playing supply and demand economics with a twist. The more demand, the more supply, but supply doesn't scale in a linear fashion. The non-linear scaling makes faster hardware not cause hyperinflation (as a 1:1 reward would, as more coins per $ would be made in the future), however the scaling does mean that early adopters won't be the only people to make a profit, and large market swings will be reduced. It would take a 100x increase in the total mining hardware on the network to boost up the block reward by x10, and therefore the coins do become more valuable over time. However, people aren't as likely to dump them quickly (mined 1000 roots in 6 months, now that 6 months of time with the same hardware would only get 100 coins, let's say) as it would not be as sharp of an inflation that a fixed-difficulty coin (such as has been seen with Bitcoin) experiences. Hopefully that clears it up? It's a bit hard to explain. |
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Yes Nolo, it's another innovative coin. Even 15y old kid can do better. I'm tirred of 5 new coins every day. Just make something inovative or keep it for yourself.
Someone change 3lines of code and call it a new coin.
It takes in new economic stability ideas, and promotes fairness, building on top of the foundation of acceptance, tolerance, demand, and ideology of Bitcoin to serve a purpose that no current altcoins have attempted. The beauty of free market is that you don't have to use it, you don't have to mine it, and if you really wanted to, you could write a browser plugin to filter out anything that pertains to the coin. |
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A little over two weeks ago, I posted an announcement for what I am now dubbing "Root" (Name subject to change, will put up community vote). https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=193948.0 Quick summary: Currency with block reward based on the square root of the difficulty times a modifier, likely rounded to two decimal places: Difficulty: Reward: 1----------->1 2----------->1.41 4----------->2 8----------->2.83 10---------->3.16 50---------->7.07 100--------->10 500--------->22.36 1000-------->31.62 10000------->100 Additionally, the coin would have a higher starting difficulty, and is well-announced. As I draw closer, I will announce the exact launch time. Finally, the coin will tie in a lot of community input. The square root reward allows the currency to have larger amounts to deal with increased demand (acting like a buffer) while still allowing early adopters to get their fair share and not causing the currency to hyperinflate or hyperdeflate due to markets. Here is what I am planning, up for criticism from the community: - 2 minute block reward (People seem to think a shorter block reward means more confirms and so is therefore faster, and while confirming is faster, these confirms mean nothing, as the value in the confirm system is the amount of time that it takes up, as longer forking attacks are harder, more risky, and much more expensive. I feel 10-12 minutes is a secure time, and allows for reasonable transactions with one confirm within two minutes.). - Starting difficulty of 0.125 (Maybe 0.0625?) - No premine- First 100 blocks have a very low reward, additional buffer against first-hour profits - Difficulty retarget every 100 blocks
-Block reward retarget every 100 blocks- "Dry" sourcecode (no genesis block) available one week prior to launch for additional criticism, and to ensure there is nothing scammy going on behind the scenes. - Possibly a testnet launch at this time too, in order to allow everyone to prepare appropriately with pools and other critical services if they wish to provide them early.
-All decisions as to the direction of the coin made by the community after launch, no major changes.- Windows binaries as well as final source code released at same time- Instruction pamphlet released hours if not days before final announcement with everything you need to know about CPU and GPU mining, client interface, how to forward ports and what ports to forward, what your config file should look like, etc. etc. - Active forum dedicated to coin - No block halving, square root reward should buffer against new hardware enough - Open source (creative commons?) license, all artwork I release related to it will be released this way as well. - Full-resolution (<name> Accepted Here, logos, etc. available before launch for marketing, website design, etc.) Any additional ideas? Any complaints about the above ones? Release date set for late June (2013), no promises, not committing to any particular date yet. For sure 4 or MORE weeks from now, we want to do this right, not fast.Please suggest names if you haven't already, I'm going to be taking my top 10-20 and doing a poll within the next week. |
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I just offered the OP , the price of 2000 NBL to fix that fucking horried logo - i have a design -its vector- i think he's away , am i asking too much?
also - maybe he wants to run a comp - i think 2k is quite reasonable considering its worthless unless we do get a decent design , thus the paradox.
lol 2000nbl, did you mean to post in the goldcoin thread? Let's wait for some better offers aye.. ok so you think i'm asking too much? - the OP has on my calc around 100k of them ? i believe my logo is good, but ok lets see some, anyone want to post any ? i mean , this is wortheless if we don't fix it? so why are you guys wasting power? I put these up on page 8, however I'll re-post them here:  |
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what is nibble's network hash rate anyways? I was gonna mine it once block rewards hit 32.
Block reward is at 50 currently. |
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Nice work man Thanks! Though, early Netscape logo is eerily close. This one?  |
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Here ya go. Nice work man Thanks! |
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Here ya go. |
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I am offering 1200 WDC for an ASRock 970 Extreme3 Motherboard shipped to my house (I live in US). On Newegg, it is currently $75. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157280PM Me if you want to work out the deal. I'm a trusted forum member, and if you would be open to shipping the unit to me first, then I pay you, great. If not, we can use escrow, or if you are a trusted community member as well I can send first. Thanks!! |
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Faucet is off guys, sorry about that, put that in OP now. |
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Looks very interesting, watching this one. |
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I have looked into the legal hurdles, mostly involving issues with money laundering, and have decided that this project would not be illegal, and will therefore be put back onto track. I of course reserve the right to stop the project again if other issues turn up, but basically it does not seem to be illegal by any current US law. There are laws preventing the creation of a system for money laundering, but the purpose of the coin is NOT to launder money, and arguably cash/printed money could be considered a system with equivalent possibilities for money laundering. Additionally, any system in which a commodity, currency, or barter is used could be considered a way to launder money, and since money launderers would have to purposely take steps to make the system work for money laundering (mixing services, taint analysis, etc.), it can be said that the system/network itself is not aimed at money laundering. Therefore, the project is back on, and scheduled for late June. Thanks!! Great to see that you have figured out the legal issues. I would also think that Mens Rea would apply to this situation, if it were to come up in a court of law, i.e., one's intent determines whether a crime has been committed. Since your intent is not to create a money-laundering operation, you likely would not be held liable for such. I'm not a lawyer, so don't take any of what I just said as gospel. I'm not going down with you if the G-Man come-a-knockin' at your door. Haha, I'm with you in ideology. The coin is just like a knife or a gun. If I make them and do my best to make them safe and used for their intended purpose and someone does something bad with it, it isn't on my shoulders. The coin's intention is to be a currency used to exchange goods for a credit in a central-faith system (currency backed by a faith by the users of the currency, much like the US Dollar), and a person has to take additional steps to launder money with it. |
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A bit of the explanation to the economics behind the coin (also in OP):
With a square root reward, the early starting difficulty would not provide significant coinage, so the first hour people would not have a huge advantage.
With the square root reward, ASIC market manipulation is reduced. If ASIC devices are created, if they outpace the network 10:1, they will only increase the block reward by ~3.3 or so. For all of the investment in ASIC hardware, this seems about right.
While it is true that the coin supply per minute would increase over time, so would the user base. If you have a community of 100 people, then $100 in circulation might be enough. However, if you have a community of 10,000 people, they would have to share that $10,000 in the standard Bitcoin model. This causes inflation of the value of each dollar, so each of the 100 people who had on average $1 is now much more rich, as that resource should be $0.01 per person. However, if the 100 person community grew to 10,000 people, but the coinage in circulation was grown to $10,000, the people who were originally in that village don't have anything over the newcommers, as would occur with a linear model. However, if the new 10,000 people village had $3,000, then the dollar would be worth more than it was in the day of the 100 person community, but would still not be as painful to join for late arrivers, and ensures a more fair distribution of resources inside of the community, keeping up production rates to scale in a non-linear fasion with demand has some interesting, yet-to-be-tested economic effects in supply/demand economics, but my personal guess is that the currency will act as if it had a "buffer" against rapid increases and decreases of price, apart from speculation.
One issue that arises is that, while the money supply increases, block mining turns from a "I made the equivalent to a cupcake!" to "I made the equivalent of a new car!?!". This is an interesting side effect, making the block reward less of a job and more of a lottery. However, by the time the block reward is significantly bigger than the starting position, pools will have popped up, and almost all mined blocks will be mined by pools and distributed to users, with a few solominers playing the lottery if they so choose. The same lottery occurs with Bitcoin today, but instead of the number of coins increasing, the value of the coins is increasing at a steady rate, and seems to be currently taking a nap around $115-120.
While the square root may not be the ideal magic value, I feel that it will take the benefits of both sides: reducing inflation while increasing fairness.
I will hold a public poll for the name of the currency in the next week or so. If you have additional suggestions, please enter them in this thread within the next day or two!
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