For the record - I think open source is the only way to go - however, again, I think it matters how that is done - it's not as simple as saying - "open source it".
I believe the plan - as per the dev - is to open it once DarkSend has been fully debugged - which I think is entirely reasonable. I think others want it to have a little more momentum in the market and with adoption before it goes open source - which I don't think is unreasonable either. However, it's ultimately the developer's choice - I'm sure though that he will take the input of the community seriously.
I know he has said that closed source is NOT an option in this thread - however, is this on any of the sites so its known to new users?
Because, the community knows that closed source was never an option - but I don't think others do.
Well I know a dev working on paper wallets and brain wallets for DRK. They are unsure on releasing their work to the wild on the idea DRK may be going to use a closed-source model. That's one example alone of the effect using a closed-source model would have on eco-system development outside of the core dev-team. Not publicly releasing your code until your happy with it is one thing but to try and patent it and go closed-source is another. Hopefully the ideas on using a closed model are just that ideas from some guy on the internet and not hints by the dev team testing the water. No, DarkSend is definitely going to be an opensource project. We'll do some audits and make sure there's nothing wrong with the concepts and code, then open it up. By the way, it's going to be about 10000 lines of code you would have to add to your coin. It's not easy and you could destroy your coin by adding it. So good luck, this isn't like adding KGW. I don't think there will be many coins with developers that confident in their abilities. There's literally not one file that I didn't rip apart to do this. DarkSend being opensource isn't that big of a deal, I've dedicated at least a couple years of full time work to making this coin successful. Can any other coin compete with a full time dev? It's the innovation that makes a coin like this successful and there's alot of ideas out there I can implement after DarkSend. We'll have one hell of a coin. DarkSend is backwards compatible with the underlying protocol, so your dev that's working on the paper wallet need not worry. |
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I understand keeping the alpha closed source on a test-net but bitcoind has been in beta since 2009. So how long is darksend going to be in 'beta'?
Maybe 2-3 more weeks? |
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Official fundraiser for Darkcoin marketing & branding
Since Darkcoin was 0% premined, we will be doing this the old fashioned way, with a fundraiser. Many people in the community have expressed an interest in pushing our marketing effort along. We wanted to make sure the time was right, while Evan sorted out the kinks in the Darksend code. But we are nearly ready to show Darkcoin and Darksend to the world, so let's get this moving.
I will release a list of bounties for marketing & branding in the next day or so when I have a bit of spare time. For now, you may donate to the official fundraising wallet (anonymously if you like!). You can also PM me with your donation details and I'll keep some accounting, if only for the sake of making sure your donation is accounted for and spent appropriately.
As always, you are a fantastic community and we appreciate your support!
Fundraising wallet: Xc8xGSP7FwWGPQpgw298z7NYdA8xJK8ooh
Sent 75 |
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On the another note, Eduffield are you still planning to attend the New York conference? Didn't quite get a clear picture on what your intention was due to some changes.
No, I was struggling to figure out how to do that with some family stuff that came up. Plus they downsized it to a couple hundred seats and it was really expensive to get there and the tickets are really expensive ($200) so I'm not sure how much impact it would have actually have had. I'd much rather speak at another conference, maybe one in Cali. |
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DRK has two big issues that I see: (1) Because the power draw is only 60% of scrypt, large GPU farms that mine altcoins and dump them for BTC/fiat have an incentive to target DRK. More profit even at price parity due to lower electricity costs. This will keep market supply high perpetually and hence keep the price low. (2) The legions of unremarkable clone-coins will implement DarkSend once it's open-sourced. See how zero-talent "devs" are copy-pasting Vertcoin's anti-ASIC adaptive N algorithm. For both (1) and (2) the solution is greater adoption. In the case of (1) it reduces these quasi-commercial dumpers to a smaller proportion of the market. In the case of (2), it allows DRK to achieve escape velocity and get to a point where a competing clone coin can't catch up due to lacking the network effect. So I see "marketing" as crucial, even in the short-term. In any case, DarkSend should probably be kept closed-source before hitting at least Bter and BTC38 (not that I'm in any position to advise devs). Call it an extended mandatory beta or something.  I agree, well said. Personally, I don't think DarkSend should ever be open sourced. All it will result in are a ton of junk coins implementing it, and basically a ton of coins piggybacking on the dev's code here. Yes, if adoption was greater, then perhaps it'd make sense to open source. But to me, adoption means something like being able to be used for actual purchases somewhere. So if DarkCoin turned into Bitcoin, sure, consider open source. But that sort of adoption would take years. Instead, if it was me, perhaps a verified 3rd party could look at the code for safety types of reasons every so often, rather than just release all of the code for free. If the code is released, I expect the coin to drop in price ... a lot. At this point I absolutely agree. We have no brand awareness and as my favorite saying goes... " never forsake the real for the ideal!" DarkCoins world needs to be tightly branded and every kink work out. It would be suicidal to release anything until this coin is burned into peoples mind as the "NAME" in crypto security. No Cryptoanarchist worth their salt would put their privacy and security in trust of any software that was closed-source. You just don't get the idea why opensource software is so much more secure than anything closed-source. I think we should first get DarkSend working properly, release a stable binary version, then we'll find a few researchers/software developers to do an audit of the code. This way we can build a community and establish ourselves so we'll have the network to support the coin after DarkSend is open-sourced. |
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Thanks bigrcanada!
As mentioned above I think we should get the mining pools involved to offer an auto-donation to get the foundation funded. I also think we should use a similar rewards structure as heavy, obviously with fewer coins since ours are and will be worth so much more!
eduffield can you put up a donation address for the Foundation and implement the donation option on your pool to that address? If you do it then other mining pool operators can follow suit, up until a fund ceiling of 200,000 DRK or so.
I think most miners would be happy to contribute, especially when it will go directly to the foundation and improving the awareness, development and value of the coin. It's in everyone's best interest!
+1 Completely agree. We need a someone we all trust to hold the coins for the bounties. It makes sense that eduffield be that person, seeing as he must have a lot of trust from us as we are all counting on his development of the coin. I would step up myself except I'm having trouble with my wallet (on a mac, it keeps quitting). If we can get a darkcoinfounation website or simply a bounty page added to http://www.darkcoin.io/ with an darkcoin address controlled by eduffield (or another trusted person) we can all start chipping in to pay for the bounties. We can propose bounties here in this thread and/or over at https://www.darkcointalk.org/. Let's do it!  I would also propose that we make a central portal for DarkCoin marketing and administration discussions such as www.darkcointalk.org or off the main site...and maybe move that away from here. Started a Reddit thread that might be a good jumping off point, given the format. http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/1zzfoz/thoughts_in_marketing_this_coin/Ok...so here's the next most difficult part, we need to put someone in charge. For being in charge we could again donate some DRK for someone to organize everything and be a go to person. Naturally that would be Evan, though I suspect he already has alot on his plate...maybe one of the other devs or someone that Evan can propose to be the central goto person in regards to creating a task list and moving us forward. I immediately remove myself from a possible candidate at this time due to our heavy work season at our winery coming up. Evan...thoughts? Yes, I am way too busy to do it myself. However, I put LimLims incharge of management of the project awhile back. |
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won't sending multiple transactions to your self bloat the blockchain?
Are you talking about denominate? It's just one transaction and it takes your whole wallet and converts the inputs into DarkSend compatible inputs. Say for example you have 123DRK, it would create ONE transaction that allowed you to DarkSend 9 times. Then you would need to run it again when you ran out of compatible inputs. |
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So I just had a random idea and I wanted to see if there's any interest in me developing this (after DarkSend of course).
I think it would be really neat and much more friendly if you could type something like "Evan" in the Pay To field. Bitcoin/Darkcoin addresses are just really long and impossible to remember, it's even harder to show a Bitcoin address in a video or picture without a QR Code.
The solution? Named Addresses
When mining, the miner who successfully mines the block could "name" a darkcoin address. It would be permanently added to the block chain as an alias of that darkcoin address. The names could be up to 8-20 characters and would be paired with the 160 bit address. Upon loading the blockchain the client would form a cache of all of these and then they could be used in place of the full addresses.
It's decentralized, permanent and tamper proof.
The block explorer could even show the alias instead of the address when it had it available, so in a DarkSend you could tell that "Evan" paid someone, but you would have no idea who.
How do you get a name?
This could be an opportunity for the pool operators to make extra cash. They would take orders for name/address pairs and tell the daemon which ones to add to the blockchain next. The blockchain could only support 1 of these per block, so there could be a premium for adding them. Eventually I could see a centralized market where you buy a spot in the queue to get a name.
Thoughts?
IMO, it sounds like a useful feature, but it's counter-productive to the ethos of DarkCoin. Crypto currencies are immature - there are hundreds and hundreds of useful features like this that could be added, but if you add too many to one such as DarkCoin, then it runs the risk of overcomplicating things and confusing people. Such features should be allowed to be introduced gradually to the market. For DRK, it doesn't add anything to help its cause. I agree. More than over complicating, it just doesn't flow with anonymity and privacy aspects that should resonate with DarkCoin imo. Yeah, plus it would require a hard fork. Nevermind, just an idea. |
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So I just had a random idea and I wanted to see if there's any interest in me developing this (after DarkSend of course).
I think it would be really neat and much more friendly if you could type something like "Evan" in the Pay To field. Bitcoin/Darkcoin addresses are just really long and impossible to remember, it's even harder to show a Bitcoin address in a video or picture without a QR Code.
The solution? Named Addresses
When mining, the miner who successfully mines the block could "name" a darkcoin address. It would be permanently added to the block chain as an alias of that darkcoin address. The names could be up to 8-20 characters and would be paired with the 160 bit address. Upon loading the blockchain the client would form a cache of all of these and then they could be used in place of the full addresses.
It's decentralized, permanent and tamper proof.
The block explorer could even show the alias instead of the address when it had it available, so in a DarkSend you could tell that "Evan" paid someone, but you would have no idea who.
How do you get a name?
This could be an opportunity for the pool operators to make extra cash. They would take orders for name/address pairs and tell the daemon which ones to add to the blockchain next. The blockchain could only support 1 of these per block, so there could be a premium for adding them. Eventually I could see a centralized market where you buy a spot in the queue to get a name.
Thoughts?
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I'll be speaking at the Cryptocurrency Convention on Apr 9th in NewYork, detailing how DarkSend works and promoting DarkCoin. If anyone will be in NewYork at that time I'd love to meet you!
http://cryptocurrencyconvention.com/*My details should be up on the site soon THIS is the type of "marketing" this coin needs. Edu, can you talk any about what type of testing (beyond this community doing some DS transactions) you are doing? It's been mentioned before to try to let some "white-hat" types take a hammer to it... anything like that? To me, i'd like some sort of 3rd party endorsement on the anonymous transactions. There were a few people that came into the forums and said that it wasn't anonymous and could break it, I'll reach out to them and see if they're up for taking a look at it. |
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DRK has two big issues that I see: (1) Because the power draw is only 60% of scrypt, large GPU farms that mine altcoins and dump them for BTC/fiat have an incentive to target DRK. More profit even at price parity due to lower electricity costs. This will keep market supply high perpetually and hence keep the price low. (2) The legions of unremarkable clone-coins will implement DarkSend once it's open-sourced. See how zero-talent "devs" are copy-pasting Vertcoin's anti-ASIC adaptive N algorithm. For both (1) and (2) the solution is greater adoption. In the case of (1) it reduces these quasi-commercial dumpers to a smaller proportion of the market. In the case of (2), it allows DRK to achieve escape velocity and get to a point where a competing clone coin can't catch up due to lacking the network effect. So I see "marketing" as crucial, even in the short-term. In any case, DarkSend should probably be kept closed-source before hitting at least Bter and BTC38 (not that I'm in any position to advise devs). Call it an extended mandatory beta or something. I agree, well said. Is there anyone here with a marketing background that would want to manage that? We could raise some money and use it to draw some attention. Email me at evan@darkcoin.io if you're interested. |
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I'll be speaking at the Cryptocurrency Convention on Apr 9th in NewYork, detailing how DarkSend works and promoting DarkCoin. If anyone will be in NewYork at that time I'd love to meet you!
http://cryptocurrencyconvention.com/*My details should be up on the site soon speakers .. . what happen ? Yeah, I was struggling to figure out how to do that with some family stuff that came up. Plus they downsized it to a couple hundred seats and it was really expensive to attend ($200 a ticket) so I'm not sure how much impact it would have actually have had. |
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We just installed everything last night for the new official pool, http://www.drkpool.com. Scam? Your money is safe, the cron scripts are just messed up at the moment. I'll fix it later today. |
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Message from the bittrex devs Hi,
We're interested in launching DarkCoin on our exchange this weekend. I'm wondering if you'd be interested in a co-marketing opportunity with us.
I've seen a lot of exchanges collect bounties to offset the cost of launching a new coin and trade pair. We've got pretty high costs given the amount of redundancy we put into our systems but I'd like to propose a different model that would help drive users to our exchange and awareness of DRK.
I'd like you to commit a pool of coins for giveaways. Instead of giving it to us, we'd use it to draw interest in the new trade pair. We'd give a set of coins for certain activities:
1) signing up to the exchange
2) executing a trade
3) tweeting about the new trade pair
Should I setup a wallet and collection donations for this? EDIT: They have NO volume, nevermind. |
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DarkSend Beta Version 3 is Live!Last night I figured out how to make DarkSend completely anonymous. What's even better is it's simple and elegant. Before I had said I thought I could get to 95%, I think now with this model I can get to 99%+. So what's new? Check out the V3 announcement PDF: http://www.darkcoin.io/downloads/DarkSendv3.pdf What if someone wants to send 15 DRK and doesn't have 100 DRK in his/her account balance? You'll have to have whatever the next required pool amount is to DarkSend. For 15DRK it might be 20, 50 or 100. |
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If you're testing out Beta V3 and getting an error message from denominate ("An error occurred created DarkSend compatible inputs. Please consult the documentation for help.").You can just send multiple matching payments of 1DRK and 10DRK to your beta wallet. That's all it does. I'll look into reproducing it in the morning and put up a fix.
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DarkSend Beta Version 3 is Live!Last night I figured out how to make DarkSend completely anonymous. What's even better is it's simple and elegant. Before I had said I thought I could get to 95%, I think now with this model I can get to 99%+. So what's new? Check out the V3 announcement PDF: http://www.darkcoin.io/downloads/DarkSendv3.pdf If someone uses a different pool size, say the 1000 DRK pool for 15 DRKs, or the 100 DRK pool for 20.000 DRKs, what will happen? The pools will be for ranges, if you want to send 0-100 you'll use the 100 pool. 100-1000 will use the 1000 pool, etc. Yeah I mean if it becomes open source and then someone maliciously changes the code so that one can send whatever he wants to any type of pool, will something break or will the pool simply reject any non-conforming value? All darksend messages are inspected and depending and valid, they will be propagated. So, no that type of attack won't do anything but get you banned from talking to a node. Ok... that's what I wanted to know (the implementation's strength versus people doing things that they weren't supposed to, in order to find and exploit some bug). It's pretty robust, after we got attacked I really looked into that. |
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DarkSend Beta Version 3 is Live!Last night I figured out how to make DarkSend completely anonymous. What's even better is it's simple and elegant. Before I had said I thought I could get to 95%, I think now with this model I can get to 99%+. So what's new? Check out the V3 announcement PDF: http://www.darkcoin.io/downloads/DarkSendv3.pdf If someone uses a different pool size, say the 1000 DRK pool for 15 DRKs, or the 100 DRK pool for 20.000 DRKs, what will happen? The pools will be for ranges, if you want to send 0-100 you'll use the 100 pool. 100-1000 will use the 1000 pool, etc. Yeah I mean if it becomes open source and then someone maliciously changes the code so that one can send whatever he wants to any type of pool, will something break or will the pool simply reject any non-conforming value? All darksend messages are inspected and depending and valid, they will be propagated. So, no that type of attack won't do anything but get you banned from talking to a node. |
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