VRC is tarnished. Good luck with acting immature on this forum as you represent VRC as a supporter of it.
There is a lot of users in this thread on both sides of the discussion that can't seem to discuss things (not speaking of you, though I am sure you no doubt get kicks out of those who can't control themselves over words on a screen, I know I do).  |
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LOL well at least we agree on something...that it probably shouldn't happen again...but that doesn't mean it won't.
The precedent as been set. Good luck in the future with other scams/hacks/losses that are VRC-related.
Current events form future trends. Now we can see where the trend is headed.
A singular 'event' does not show a trend. Let's see this situation happen a second time and what may happen. A dev himself is already speaking out against centralized exchanges ( https://twitter.com/effectsToCause/status/488379402133450752 ) with another saying they can't do this again ( https://twitter.com/pnosker/status/488760442261889025 ). So yeah, if this happens again, I guess that is where we will see if this lucky situation is actually a trend starting of rollbacks, which I don't think is logically possible as the more coins are used/exchanged and more users effected. |
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@BitcoinPorn,
there is no real lesson if they were given back all that they should have lost in the hack.
Lessons come at a cost. There was no real cost to users who made bad decisions to keep their coins on an exchange that makes bad decisions.
I truly believe Mintpal did not suffer great enough consequences for what they did and the controversy they have helped ignite over what is right or wrong for digital coins. I can only hope for a slow exit from the exchange by users. I can't foul all the users in this case, as there is a mixture of day traders (I'm not a fan of) or people who found this was a way to get into either Vericoin or any coin really, as Mintpal lists a lot. That $2 million dollars worth of coin could have been spread among any amount of users. I am in agreement with you that probably not everyone here is learning any lesson, however the cost of the coin overall being gone completely from users who did not use that exchange should not have to suffer. I seen the other post about someone saying there was an option to make that $2 million become null and void from the chain without having to rollback, I am not sure if that would have been the right option either, but I do know decisions did have to be made quick, and I think the devs made an optimal choice for the users of the still fairly new coin. |
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I get it and I admire your guys passion and dedication. But I believe you are missing a valid point, an EXCHANGE, (yes just one exchange who will probably be gone in a year or 2) was lax on security, so in order to save said exchange's financial losses you hardfork the coin. That makes me sick honestly. I know alot of you have vested interest in the coin, but man this isn't what crypto is about.
Yes, we all agree Vericoin is a game changer  Thank you for not quoting me out of context and I would agree that is a game changer in a different aspect (not in a positive light btw). haha, I left your quote totally in tact and didn't change a word. And I mean it from a positive light from my side, but I acknowledge you do see it in a negative way, but they definitely changed how things can be done. God bless multiple coins existing, there Bitcoin should not rule the digital currency realm, but they shouldn't go away either, here here to multiple coins |
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If you were dumb enough to trust an incompetent exchange (whether you knew or not ahead of time...as there is always risk with 3rd parties) you deserve to lose your coins should that 3rd party fuck up on their responsibilities.
I actually agree with you, but not at the cost of the failure of the coin itself (thus effecting all users of the coin, not just the ones using Mintpal). Vericoin devs chose to save the coin from one user controlling too much as well as hopefully teach a huge lesson to all the users not to keep their coins on an exchange like that. You mean...MintPal was " too big to fail". Nope, I meant what I said. Mintpal had way too many of the coins imo, they fucked things up for Vericoin on many levels. But they are just one exchange, it might be Bittrex next. Or cryptsy. Or etc. Centralized exchanges do need to be either tightened or not used. |
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Mintpal made a bad decision to keep MOST of its users' VRC holding in their hot wallet. The VRC devs bailed out Mintpail.
The principal is the same.
Such silly smoothie posts  Mintpal got lucky that Vericoin is early on enough and the devs wanted the users to not be fucked over in this case. So it is what the devs want. I got it. Now we can both agree VRC operates as a dictatorship much like the Federal Reserve System. Thank you for clarifying that. And no there isn't anything silly about my posts. They are the facts. Facts seem silly to people who don't want to view the truth for what it is and prefer to be in denial. Vericoin developers gave users the option to join a new blockchain that rolled back the part where someone stole the $2 million worth of coin. We all here had the choice to not do this. Exchanges had the choice to not participate. etc etc. The majority of people voted with their wallets on this decision, this choice probably will not be something possible later in the life of the coin. It was an opportunity to make right of a shitty situation. Just the facts. You are in denial that people live happily thinking about and using digital currencies in a different way than you lol.  |
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I get it and I admire your guys passion and dedication. But I believe you are missing a valid point, an EXCHANGE, (yes just one exchange who will probably be gone in a year or 2) was lax on security, so in order to save said exchange's financial losses you hardfork the coin. That makes me sick honestly. I know alot of you have vested interest in the coin, but man this isn't what crypto is about.
Yes, we all agree Vericoin is a game changer |
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If you were dumb enough to trust an incompetent exchange (whether you knew or not ahead of time...as there is always risk with 3rd parties) you deserve to lose your coins should that 3rd party fuck up on their responsibilities.
I actually agree with you, but not at the cost of the failure of the coin itself (thus effecting all users of the coin, not just the ones using Mintpal). Vericoin devs chose to save the coin from one user controlling too much as well as hopefully teach a huge lesson to all the users not to keep their coins on an exchange like that. |
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Mintpal made a bad decision to keep MOST of its users' VRC holding in their hot wallet. The VRC devs bailed out Mintpail.
The principal is the same.
Such silly smoothie posts Mintpal got lucky that Vericoin is early on enough and the devs wanted the users to not be fucked over in this case. |
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Where 1.3.3 ?
Please give download link.
i downloaded mine from vericoin.info site. perhaps, clear you cache? Or open site in different browser and try again I got 1.3.3 from official site fine. |
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Actually I didn't, I quoted his entire post.
Just another thing we will just have to agree to disagree on |
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Wow, Patrick, you really did it. You did a rollback of the blockchain and wrote history with it. Everyone with knowledge about cryptos knows that their were a couple of other options to save the coin (e.g. removing the stolen coins from the supply), but you chose to bail out mintpal. You even were offered support for fixing the issue in a reasonable way, but still you used your honorable achieved credibility to break a fundamental rule. Its a sad day in crypto, especially since this wasn't a scam coin but a serious crypto project.
This move will never be forgotten. To the community, if you all trust a single dev so much, here is the perfect solution for you: Fork again and increase the supply such that pnosker owns 50% of all coins which he should never spend on anything and only use for staking. You will be save, forever! Have a good life.
i think the bold part needs more explanation, what other options were passed up on? The option to burn all the stolen coins and leave mintpal owing to the users for one. $2 million dollars worth of coin that users would probably never see back from Mintpal, as who knows how they would have even handled that. I'm guessing shutting down and giving their user base refunds of a percentage of the amount of coins they actually had in the exchange, thus fucking over users of many altcoins. OR.. the choice they did make, rollback, the hacker does not make off with $2 million dollars worth of coin and $4000 dollars worth of VRC transactions get messed up (so far the only negative I have seen as part of this situation.. other than FUD/ignorance/disagreement posts). |
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I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.
that being said, when the likely outcomes of inaction are carefully weighed against each other, the powers that be really didn't have a choice either. Finally, someone who gets it. Exactly, there was no choice but to do the rollback. I'm glad we all agree on this. I think we also all agree that centralized exchanges are bad. Centralized mining is pretty horrible. And features like Verisend NEED to be open source to be useful. Way to quote out of text asshole  C'mon now, you excluded the best part of everything he said first, I just put it back in, no need for names, we can have good discussion even in disagreements  |
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Well, get this: VRC is a very young coin, obviously experiencing some growing pains or just some growing. Exceptional growing, by any measure, by the way. And it is indeed setting a lot of precedents. This last one establishes, no more no less that the bad guys don't get away with their thievery. Again, that is rising the bar to a new level. And, guess what, the community supports that. Guess what else: The people outside of the community, supports that too (they, mind you, don't live in a world where criminal acts not only are not accountable, but even bragged about). So the message of it all is clear: The times of the bad guys hidden under anonymous handles is soon to be over. The time of the wild west is coming to a close in crypto. Fast. The bad guys won't be rewarded (and, soon, will be direly punished). So the precedent is of some significance for either VRC will thrive because of this or will die because no new investors/users will come to participate and the community's faith will start to deteriorate in a hurry.
No one knows, for sure, the exact repercussions. But these guys (the devs) are indeed the good guys of crypto after the several precedents, including this one. I am betting that the support will continue and grow significantly in weeks, months and years to come, precisely for that.
Well said, your whole post, but I like this part the best. I think to add to this, people believe that only one digital currency will survive or will work or be supported or etc. In the end it will be just like Visa, Mastercard, American Express, etc. There will be different coins with different benefits, and I think Vericoin is well establishing how they want to be and work. I think Dogecoin does this as well, with their purposely lower value and how it is used with online tipping and crowdfunding/charity through a great community. Bitcoin will be used for high end transactions, prostitution, and buying illegal drugs. All of this is just speculation and random thoughts though. |
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but you chose to bail out mintpal.
The devs chose to not have early users of Vericoin have their coin stolen. |
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I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.
that being said, when the likely outcomes of inaction are carefully weighed against each other, the powers that be really didn't have a choice either. Finally, someone who gets it. Exactly, there was no choice but to do the rollback. I'm glad we all agree on this. I think we also all agree that centralized exchanges are bad. Centralized mining is pretty horrible. And features like Verisend NEED to be open source to be useful. |
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Mintpal drop the ball, bottom line, it should be on them to fix it or compensate.
There was no ability for or from them to fix the issue or compensate. With one user holding the amount of VRC that they stole, they had the ability to destroy the coin overall. Mintpal dropped the ball, however without them in control of the ball, the coin had to be reverted back to a state where one user was no longer controlling that much VRC. At this point I am hoping the lesson users will learn with some PoS based coins, is not to leave them in exchanges, or at least spread them out, as no one exchange should have that many coin, especially not in cold storage. Mintpal was not in a position to do anything except alert the Vericoin devs that they done fucked up and basically allowed the ability for someone to destroy a coin, the devs at this early in Vericoin's life, had the ability to fix this issue by creating a new chain for users to continue on. Issues like this and the ability to fork the chain happened with Bitcoin as well, it was early enough on in BTC's life where people could do something about this, and even luckier they did not have to do a rollback ( see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6290.0 ) |
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In a darwinian sense I would expect those coins with devs willing to do things like roll back in extreme situations might propagate faster because they don't commit suicide. Unless of course this mass ideaological backlash some are predicting against vrc occurs.
Backlash is better than suicide, the devs were put in a shit situation and did what they had to do as hard as it is to deal with users of other coins trying to push their ideals on what is right or wrong in this thread. |
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Not invested in VRC at all, 0% stake. This shit makes me sick though. Your supporting an exchanges's incompetence and should be ashamed of yourselves. I mean I get it, you guys are vested in it and want to support a coin you believe in, but this is certainly not the way you go about it. Some positives will come out of this though as Mint will surely not keep those hot wallets so ripe. And no, I am not "fudding", I'm not "trying to get coins cheap", I just believe in my opinion that this was the totally improper way to go about fixing an exchanges total fuck up and as a community, you took the easy way out.
What are you blathering on about? Mintpal was saved as a side effect of Vericoin needing to protect itself from the coin itself seeing death. Mintpal got lucky, saving them was not the goal what so ever. The end result is volume on that exchange can and should go down until better details on how this fuck up on their part was allowed to happen. I won't say your post is FUD, just spouting ignorance without understanding the entirety of the situation. |
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