Most of the gamblers have chosen online crypto gambling for the convenience and anonymity so asking them such information may be inconvenient to some of their clinets so they have given full freedom to everyone in this gambling world so if you want to be responsible then you need to do that.
Pinnacle Sports is a very popular website that allows you to deposit/withdraw with Bitcoin but it does ask for some verification. The convenient of Bitcoin can be perfectly used as much as you want, just get verified once and that's it, no one would bother you unless you ask for self-exclusion, which Pinnacle does perform and does offer perfectly fine, their model is more than okay, even betting agents such as AC88 require verification and use Bitcoin for deposits and withdrawals. If you don't want to do KYC then it's like child pornography - what prevents children from being involved in it? This is just 1 basic question you can ask yourself among many. |
|
|
|
OP, I think if you want to pick a fight with casinos because they wouldn't be able to enforce self-exclusion properly it's a lost cause. Of course casinos can't do it if they don't enforce KYC, and that is even not perfect if done online. In the physical casinos you can use fake IDs, and online you can do the same, and still gamblers can deposit and gamble and lose without doing kyc (kyc usually happens at withdraw). A normal compulsive gambler won't use a fake ID to get through to the Casino, a normal person won't use a fake ID neither, in the UK carrying a fake ID is a criminal offense, you would be jailed for it, the police won't be easy on you with an offense like this. KYC happens when you withdraw but a normal gambler won't deposit funds into a place where he knows would give him hard time to get a withdrawal processed. Why would anyone do it? When there is no value to bet then no one would bet, including an addict, because an addict is still looking to get his withdrawals or else he would leave the place (which is a good thing). It's impossible to put the responsibility on casinos, they can only do so much.
Casinos created the problem, so they have to take responsibility. If there were no casinos - then there won't be a problem gambling. You cannot separate between the two. Tobacco companies are well regulated, Casinos are no different. You can try to portray it differently as if the casinos are the poor ones here being heavily regulated, but one of the reasons Bitcoin is dropping in price is because investors understand that if it will be used for criminal offenses such as allowing underage gambling (and even worse terrible things) then no one would use it, it would only lose value. Gambling websites which are Bitcoin based must meet a minimum criteria or risk themselves losing credibility, being sued or finding themselves in tons of other pickles ... it won't last forever what you guys are trying to claim. |
|
|
|
It is why we need self-control to prevent from playing gambling every day or make a new account when we want to play gambling.
Wrong. If you somebody wants to gamble again sir they will always find a way,those 2 arent the only sportsbooks in the world
If the self exclude themselfs and want to bet again thats a serious problem
Wrong again. Compulsive gamblers cannot stop simply with "Self Control", it doesn't work this way. Compulsive gamblers can stop only if they arrest their addiction, and by that it means to self-exclude, hand over the control over cash to someone else, or use any means whatsoever to stop gambling. Nitrogen Sports is not offering the self-exclusion feature out of good heart, they do it for business reasons, to show that they have some sense of responsible gambling - but unfortunately with the way they operate it's absurd to offer a self-exclusion in this format. An addict won't stop because his mind tells him to stop, an addict will stop because he cannot bet, the more barriers the better - if he has to exclude himself from 2000 sites so be it ... any website that doesn't respect it - is in fact violating a very basic moral code of conduct, and this type of behavior is immoral and unscrupulous. You cannot justify this behavior, you can try to put the blame on the addict, but there are tons of many court cases in many countries worldwide where such code of conduct was proven to be penalized, and the gambling owners had to pay huge fines for such immoral actions. Once again - this topic cannot be underestimated, as much as you want to blame the gamblers, the recent developments in the gambling industry are only going in the other direction, websites do need to be responsible or they can or will be held liable for their actions. |
|
|
|
That's funny and is the same as if some hacker hacks your credit card and you go complain to the bank. The credit card is your responsibility.
Here is the same Nitrogensports is not responsible if you have become an addict gambler.
Firstly, it's not the same. Secondly, a bank or a credit card would reverse charges you didn't make in many cases (unlike Bitcoin for instance). If gambling websites wouldn't exist then no one would have become a compulsive gambler. People become CG because of the gambling industry, so your assertion that Nitrogen is not responsible is wrong and misleading. Thirdly, just like a shop is not supposed to sell cigarettes and alcohol to young kids under 18 in most countries in the world - the same applies here, and if these websites have NO SENSE of RESPONSIBILITY (tip: that's the title of this topic) then they can be held liable one way or another, or sooner or later likewise. That's exactly what this thread is about. |
|
|
|
If I consider anonymity is my right than what is wrong with denying the verification process? We love decentralized technology, we like the anonymity (not 100% though ) given by bitcoin, we like not to have charge back, we like peer to peer transaction then why do we hold us back to be the salve for some authority?
If I am over 18 and I am responsible for my actions then I should be responsible for the money I lose or gain from gambling. I guess it's time for us to take our responsibilities in our own hand rather then giving it to a corporation.
True, and if Cannabis could be legal anywhere (including the THC) then many cancer patients would be alive as well. But "unfortunately" we live in a world of regulation, whether we like it or not that's another question, and no doubt freedom is something we all wish to have, but actually having some meaningful limits in life is better than having none. When it comes to gambling, if you had a child who's 10 year old, would you be okay with him betting using Bitcoin just because it's anonymous? Would you not be concerned he might get addicted? The same applies to a gambling addict who doesn't stop wasting all his resources because he wants to place the next bet on a roulette, a slot machine, horse racing, a basketball or a football game - and this is where self-exclusion helps. What good bookmakers are doing is verify you, just once, only once - once you are verified you can bet as much as you want, be free like a bird, no one would tell you to stop unless if you voluntarily ask for it, and that's an option that should always be on the table. |
|
|
|
I cant understand people who are addicted in gambling what do they want in life? To win huge amount of money and become rich? Well this not gonna happen even if they gamble for the rest of their lives they will never become rich in this vice it will even make you a beggar after a months of gambling I know to others its just for fun but to some its an addiction.
It's a disease, an addiction, some just want to bet more and more, to get "an action", they crave for it because that's how their mind works, they would even steal money or do whatever it takes to get more money to gamble. You cannot understand them and it's okay, don't try to understand them and don't try to help them, you would only cause damage if you do. |
|
|
|
Self-exclusion can never work perfectly, neither online nor in the real world. Circumventing self-exclusion on the internet is as easy as getting a VPN and switching it on before you go to your gambling site of choice. You may shoot yourself in the foot by doing that (i.e. if they have KYC procedures preventing you from withdrawing money easily), but that is only brought about by your own irresponsible decision.
You seem to throw away lots of nonsense, and I highly doubt you regard yourself as a problem gambler neither, you should honestly let problem gamblers express their own wish when it comes to things like that, and don't try to speak on their behalf. You cannot circumvent self exclusion if you are obligated to verify yourself, you have to produce a genuine copy of your ID Card or Passport or Driving License, the website will see your name and date of birth and the self-exclusion red flag would show the operator that you cannot have another account - Pinnacle is doing it and Pinnacle is perfectly accepting Bitcoin for deposits and withdrawals - they just don't allow you to bet if you don't verify yourself first. Now in the real world you can self-exclude yourself from a casino, but I wouldn't trust the cameras in being 100% effective in flagging you to get security to escort you out. You are wrong again. You cannot enter a Casino (a proper one) without handing over your ID, they would see your name and DOB and if you are on the self-excluded list you won't be allowed to enter, period. Many casinos operate like this, you get a card to play with after you handed over your ID and you use this card to quickly come into the casino next time ... yes, you can use someone else's card but if the Casino knows it they will block you and the other person from ever coming back (it's also not allowed) ... so no, it is not based on cameras. And yes, in the UK betting shops do rely on employees to detect if someone self-excluded himself so this is not effective, but at least proper Casinos and other places do allow you to enter only upon verification, and that's how it should be. Also - we're mainly discussing the ONLINE self-exclusion, not offline, and online self-exclusion is much more powerful because as easy as it is to place a bet, it becomes harder if you are blocked. Self-exclusion, therefore, is a horrible option because its upside (efficacy in keeping you from gambling) is minimal and its downside is massive*. It's just another bad bet that uneducated gamblers make. On the contrary, it's a very effective tool that helps people who need it! Read the last paragraph made by TSL in the 2nd post: https://www.psychforums.com/gambling-addiction/topic204496-10.htmlAnd this: https://www.gamblingtherapy.org/en/taking-my-life-back-self-exclusionAnd this: (just the conclusions part for those who don't want to read it all) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4016676/You clearly are not a problem gambler and definitely not a person who knows what problem gamblers (and their families) go through in life, so once again - you are contributing nothing but utterly ridiculous suggestions which are unhelpful and very dangerous for problem gamblers. |
|
|
|
Why are you so concerned about their self exclusion? If I myself know that I have a gambling problem and couldn't stop it myself it's better to seek help from other people(you already pointed this out on the other thread of yours by giving your cash to someone you can trust).
Sure you can make another account on Nitro after pressing self exclusion on your older account but this can be easily stopped if you're being monitored by someone irl 24/7 (like being in rehab or prison if your addiction is really that bad).
It's good that Nitro have self exclusion rather than having nothing because they're not the only two sites that lets you bet without providing any personal info. Also there are bitcoin gambling sites that lets you gamble without having an account one example is OneHash.
Are you a Nitrogen affiliate, or you're playing yourself, or you're just an idiot who has no idea what a gambling problem is? I'm asking seriously, why are you posting nonsense - can you please bother reading the message here before replying with nonsense?!The concern about self exclusion is a real genuine concern, someone who wants to stop gambling should have no option to bet "again", and if a website creates a possibility to do that - then that's a problem. You said "it's good that Nitro have self exclusion" - what good is in it if the policy cannot be properly enforced?! That's the main concept of this thread, and it seems many people in this thread like a herd of sheep are posting here trying to protect Nitro or the gambling industry - where are you all coming from really? What's the motive behind your posts? Why don't you all identify yourself and tell us who you really are before you post your continuous nonsense protecting the bad guys here?! For Nitrogen afaik they don't ask for any verification including big wins. They only stop processing your withdrawal once they see something suspicious like multi accounting and other forms of cheating.
Who mentioned withdrawals? How is it related to this topic? Once again - you are proving some loyalty to Nitro - thus you're opinion is biased and extremely dangerous for real problem gamblers who need an unbiased opinion when it comes to topics of self-exclusion. Please you and anyone affiliated with Nitro - do us all a favor and don't post nonsense here if you have nothing constructive and genuine to add to this conversation!
|
|
|
|
There's a solution for you, check the second last faq https://www.bitdice.me/help, wherein Bitdice gives it users an option to lock their account, and has even listed sites where you could get professional help to cure your addiction. A problem gambler doesn't need the website to lead himself "to get professional help", he needs to be barred i.e. self-excluded from the site, and then he would stop gambling, period. All these "professional" websites are useless, self-exclusion is 100 times more powerful than anything else you could offer a problem gambler. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5067834.0 |
|
|
|
So you are blaming gambling site because of the easiness of creating account and betting so people who want to stop gambling are affected? What a joke dude, if they want to stop then just stop no need to find other reason why they cant stop. Even worst you blame the gambling sites as the one that makes people unable to stop gambling.
Nitrogen in the settings page mention the following: We take self-exclusion VERY seriously. This action can not be undone. The support team does NOT have access to undo this, and we will never reverse or undo a self-exclusion. Self-exclusions must be waited out to their full length and "Forever" exclusions are permanent and will never be removed.
According to their terms - clause #15: https://nitrogensports.eu/n/termsProblem Gambling
...Nitrogen Sports fully supports self-exclusion from our services.It's their words, not mine. You might be all casino/gambling owners or affiliates or ones related who don't like to hear the truth, and just like a herd of sheep responding with the same answer here in this thread, just because you have an incentive or a motive to say what you say - that preying on the weak is a joke. The facts are: 1) Sites like Pinnacle Sports, Bet365, William Hill offer self-exclusion, and Pinnacle Sports won't allow you to bet with them until you verify yourself and if you are self-excluded - you won't be allowed to bet in the first place. 2) Casinos all over the world, in the US or in the UK or in Australia, Europe, you name it - they all offer self-exclusions, problem gamblers should be barred from playing if they want to stop. 3) Have you never come across "When the fun stops - STOP"? A huge campaign in the UK (the question is really if loss of money is "FUN"? but that's irrelevant) 4) Any normal casino/bookmaker with high reputation is offering self-exclusion. The fact is Nitrogen is offering it as well, but the real joke here is what kind of self-exclusion are they offering if all they require is from someone to fill out a username and a password and start betting with Bitcoin?! If websites like Nitrogen or BitBet think they can keep on going forever with "full 100% anonymity" without standing behind what they promise on their sites to offer - then they are opening the doors to legal lawsuits against them, and it's only a matter of time until someone will start doing so (it could also be the local government). You can underestimate this one as much as you'd like, it's a serious issue that needs to be addressed. |
|
|
|
|
The websites NitrogenSports.eu and BetBit.com allow users to sign up without even providing their names, or date of birth, no verification required, and it's very easy to place bets anonymously with the use of Bitcoin.
The trouble is if someone wants to permanently self-exclude his/her account - the effectiveness of that self-exclusion is next to none!
Why?
Because a problem gambler can easily open a new account in 10 seconds, and then what effectiveness do these sites have towards those who want to stop?
When all you need is username and password - then having a self-exclusion feature in the site is good for nothing.
|
|
|
|
This is the official reply from Blockchain.com
Hello, I'm very sorry to hear about this. You may have some type of malware on your computer that resulted in your funds being stolen because your private information was somehow obtained. One of the most common types of these are browser extensions posing as bitcoin price tickers that are actually stealing your account information. There's also the possibility that you visited a phishing site posing as Blockchain. We've also heard of computer viruses that detect when an address is in your clipboard, and replace the one you wanted to use with an address controlled by this malicious party. By design, Blockchain never has access to users' accounts or funds. If you keep your password and private key backups secure, then your funds are always safe with us. Since this information has been compromised, be sure to never use this wallet or any addresses contained within it. I'd also highly advise against using the same password again. I'm truly sorry that you had funds stolen from you. That certainly is an extremely frustrating experience. If you’d like to learn more about how our wallet works, please visit: https://www.blockchain.com/learning-portal/wallet-faq. Brian | Blockchain Support Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/blockchain Twitter: https://twitter.com/BlockchainBlog: https://blog.blockchain.com/
|
|
|
|
It might a,os be easy to find an innocent bystander who’s had their identity atolen too...
You might also have to check their and your jurisdication. Sometimes they like you to sue people in their country of residence...
The owner of Crypton-Exchange.net was the one who "guided" our admin what to do, he told him to install the addon (and yes, it was naively done, a rookie's mistake), but legally speaking the chats are documented, when we confronted him for the theft he left the chat (he did speak to us initially), it's all documented - it was done from his site, using his site, it wasn't a Skype conversation where you can say it was a hacker hiding behind someone. All the activity was made from the site, looking at the site ownership it seems to be registered with Reg.ru - we have some contacts who speak perfect Russian and are lawyers too, we will check the possibility of obtaining his details and getting him arrested in Russia, we have all the evidence we need. |
|
|
|
OP, if you have gotten enough ideas, consider closing this thread.
A lot of people have started posting in here without knowing what they are talking about.
Yes, you're right in one way. One last idea we haven't asked about. The hacker is the owner of Crypton-Exchange.net (as explained in the 1st thread), can we get to him by contacting the domain registrar of this domain? How feasible is that? |
|
|
|
So basically these security steps are "Good for nothing" pretty much?!
No. These security steps makes your blockchain.info wallet safer. This wallet was made to be used with all security steps done. When you have done all security steps, your account is not going to be compromised so easily. In your case, if you had 2fa+email verification the attacker would not be able to withdraw your funds, as a 2fa would be asked of him. He would not be able to see your seed, as 2fa is required for that as well. That's not 100%< far from it... But if there is 1% more security, it's worth. When the attacker saw your seed, it's gone. It's not a matter of the wallet you are using anymore. Bitcoin and the blockchain technology was designed that way. In Bitcoin, the owner of the funds is the person who owns the Private key. The seed is, simple put, a mathematical function that generate all your private keys. that's why it must be kept safe. When it was compromised, all your wallet is compromised, you need a new one. I'm not entirely sure how blockchain.info works in terms of how often you can export your seed, (i thought you could only do it once?), but i'm pretty sure that there's probably a way around that.
You can just click a button "see words" and you will see them. Thanks for the help bitmover! |
|
|
|
|
bob123, you seem like you're pretty spot on.
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
So Blockchain sends no notification if you import the wallet using the 12 word seed? Is that what happened here?
It is impossible for blockchain.com to know whether the seed as been imported into another wallet. But let me understand this: You have used the SAME wallet with the SAME seed on the SAME 3rd party service which is way less secure than a normal wallet AFTER the attacker gained access to your account? Really.. ? A really good advice from me: Please stop any business around crypto. First learn the basics (yes, BASICS), then start dealing with money. We are experts at advertising and paying users, yes, when it comes to Crypto we have to learn a very hard lesson here. Who in his right mind would use a compromised account to store more funds? Yes, it's a terrible mistake, people do make mistakes, this one is indeed quite a costly one, it's no fun for sure, but we would have to storm it out and move on. Thanks guys for letting us know hackers can use the 12 word seed to move funds without any notification in your web wallet. So just to clarify, you could have all the "protection" you want, such as 2FA, email verification etc. - but if someone has your Blockchain 12 word seed - he can easily move the funds without having to go through all these security steps, correct?! So basically these security steps are "Good for nothing" pretty much?! |
|
|
|
Or did you put more funds in the hacked account?
Why didn't you move your funds to another safer Wallet, such as Electrum or ledger as we suggested?
Moved funds to the same account, a terrible and costly mistake. Yes, now we would use safer wallets. |
|
|
|
But you state that he also reverted the password back. -- I have no clue what's happening there/how that is possible. I'd heavily suggest to avoid using webwallets in the future.
If the hacker just used the 12 word seed with another wallet, then he left the Blockchain web wallet intact without changing the password i.e. he hasn't changed the password, he just left everything and took the funds, is that what you're saying? So Blockchain sends no notification if you import the wallet using the 12 word seed? Is that what happened here? |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
