Nice to see you selling shares, rather than bonds.
However, in order to make an assessment, it would be good if you gave some more info. Specifically Id like to hear about what hardware you are running (gpu or fgpa and which kind) and how low your electricity cost really is.
I was just thinking about this. Obviously saying we have 20K in equipment is asking for a lot of trust. Let me put together a complete list and post it. I will also put together the electrical cost (which will probably make you jealous!) |
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What the payout difference and share price difference compared to gigavps's program ? (I haven't been paying attention).
What costs more to purchase, which returns more per payment and which breaks even sooner ? (with all of the recent price changes on the GLBSE)...
Currently BTCMC pays out .015 BTC per share, per month. In the next 2-3 months, we will be moving to a 100% passthrough model, less operating expenses. The farm is running at 48 GH/s at the moment, and will have closer to 55 GH/s within 7 days. 48,000/10,000 = 4.8 MH/s per share. Share price is @ .835, thus buyers are paying .17 BTC per MH/s. Gigamining is all over the board, but assuming 1 BTC, you pay .2 BTC per MH/s there. HOWEVER, Gigamining is simply a bond, with no interest in the underlying assets. BTCMC shareholders have a claim on the salvage value of the operating assets, which is easily $20,000 assuming very conservative recovery rates. My rough calculations show that each BTCMC share is worth .307 in equipment ALONE. Which leaves the buyer paying .535 for the actual hashes. That means they are really paying .111 BTC per MH/s. Far and away the best deal on GLBSE. Make sense? Know what I find funny ? All the miners on GLBSE claiming their company is " the best deal on GLBSE". Can't all be winners, can we ? (subbing) Its simple math really.....you can confirm it yourself if you like. Pretty black and white. I never found quantitative matters to be that challenging, but it seems to be hard for a lot of members. |
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Another win by BFL.
They could have completely screwed their customers and not offer any trade in so value of single with ASIC coming = maybe $10.
Now this basically ensures the value of the single is at least $300 which is excellent for some who are half way through paying off the unit and want to sell right now and stop gambling.
Is your calculator broken? Since the trade in value is only 50% not 1:1 so 2 Singles cannot be swapped for a SC single but 1 single + 700 USD = one new SC single ? Maybe my head is broken  The value of an old Single on the secondary market should continue to hover close to it's $599 purchase price minus shipping and any convenience costs of exchange with whoever wants to buy it in preparation to pick up his SC. When we receive it towards the purchase of an SC, it will be accepted at it's full $599 value. This. It will be like selling giftcards......people are willing to pay close to the value, but demand a discount to facilitate the exchange. |
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What the payout difference and share price difference compared to gigavps's program ? (I haven't been paying attention).
What costs more to purchase, which returns more per payment and which breaks even sooner ? (with all of the recent price changes on the GLBSE)...
Currently BTCMC pays out .015 BTC per share, per month. In the next 2-3 months, we will be moving to a 100% passthrough model, less operating expenses. The farm is running at 48 GH/s at the moment, and will have closer to 55 GH/s within 7 days. 48,000/10,000 = 4.8 MH/s per share. Share price is @ .835, thus buyers are paying .17 BTC per MH/s. Gigamining is all over the board, but assuming 1 BTC, you pay .2 BTC per MH/s there. HOWEVER, Gigamining is simply a bond, with no interest in the underlying assets. BTCMC shareholders have a claim on the salvage value of the operating assets, which is easily $20,000 assuming very conservative recovery rates. My rough calculations show that each BTCMC share is worth .307 in equipment ALONE. Which leaves the buyer paying .535 for the actual hashes. That means they are really paying .111 BTC per MH/s. Far and away the best deal on GLBSE. Make sense? |
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Just got a response from Jody. You have to put up 50% of the cost, the other 50% can be trade in. I understand how you are confused. This whole thing has not been explained in detail. If it were a straight trade of old equipment for new our business would fold in a week. Here's how it works: if you buy $599 worth of BFL product--say 4 Jalapenos, you are eligible to send in a Single to exchange for 4 more Jalapenos. You must buy something to be eligible to trade something of equal value. And you don't have to send in your old equipment when you pay for the new--you send it in when you are notified that your ASIC equipment is ready to ship. Does this make sense to you?
Jody I don't know if I believe this post since on the BFL press release it says very clearly --- "Because our first and second generation equipment is expected to be outpaced very quickly by the new hardware, customers who have purchased earlier generation products will be able to trade them in at 100% of their value toward the purchase of SC-generation hardware." It would be nice if BFL would come here and explain this in their own words rather than hear it from a 3rd party. The two quotes are perfectly consistent. Under the 50% trade-in plan, you would be able to exchange earlier generation products at 100% of their value. But in order to do this you have to buy some new hardware too. So, if you buy four of the cup-warmers for $600, this gives you the option to get four more by trading in a single. By exchanging four cup-warmers for a single, you are exchanging the single at 100% of its value. So there is no reason to question the first quote in light of the second. This will cause a very interesting second market to develop for singles. Many big hitters will assign a certain price they are willing to pay for singles simply for the trade-in credit. It will certainly be a discount, but not a massive one. They will be treated as units of barter, and no longer as mining devices......should be fascinating to watch! |
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Attention all shareholders:
Recent upgrades to the new Datacenter have increased our speed to 48 GH/s. In the next 10 days we will easily exceed 50 GH/s, and have a good shot at 60.
At the current price, BTCMC shares offer the best value of any mining company on GLBSE.
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To all gigaminers:
In light of how the Butterfly labs trade-in program works, I have decided hold back on ordering the 4 new mini rigs and will instead be ordering 4 SC mini rigs when BFL decides to accept orders. The net effect of this will allow for gigaminers to be one of the first to join in on ASIC profits when this equipment starts to ship.
Once I have more clarification from BFL around how all of this will work, I will post another update.
As for today's delivery of the first 4 mini rigs, I have a tracking number and the carrier says it is guaranteed for today.
Best,
gigavps
Giga, Have you seen details on the trade-in program? All I have seen is vague statements by BFL and blind ass speculation by forum members. Any help would be appreciated. |
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You're just butthurt because your wife already gets mad at you for spending money on GPU's, imagine what she will do when all the GPU's you bought become useless.
LOL...you don't know me or my situation. I post shit like that as an excuse. It's fun to joke about stuff like that. If it were true, would I really post it in public ?looking for sympathy ? or to show who really wore the pants in my family....lmao. Come on. She's never cried about the $50k that I have invested in my Skyline GT-R project, the $20k+ that I have in Car audio laying around the house, that I have not even used yet....or any other toys that I buy on a whim, the fact that I have to buy a new TV every 6 months or build a new PC for myself when ever I wish....hehe. Why bitcoin ? it actually MAKES money.....LOL Again, why are you so concerned with other people's money problems? Be thankful that you made what you believe to be the right decision, and let the cards fall where they will for everyone else.
IT'S NOT ABOUT ME DAMN IT ! It's about the TRUSTWORTHY MEMBERS of this community getting fed up and saying FUCK IT !(leaving the block chain vulnerable to OTHERS who might build up the power to ATTACK IT) We need Anchors in the Mining/Venture Community.....Trustworthy people. Not a bunch of Fly-by-night Mining Corporations, like we have seen in the past, FAIL and take everyone down a peg with them. I will trade one gigavps ( who I still think is a dick at times...LOL) for 10 of you, or 90% of this community... any day of the week. Personalities clash, that is life. gigavps is a standup guy who doesn't deserve to get fucked over for $130,000....although there are others in smaller situations. ONE MORE TIME......Giga is not the one who is in line to get fucked here......it's the BONDHOLDERS! |
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Take those users who 'shot the wad' to purchase TONS of BFL hardware, that will essentially be worth NOTHING if they keep it and will only end up forcing them to spend MORE, just to get back on top where they were before.
Sure, some might see this as a great deal....but what about THOSE who STRUGGLED to buy 1x Mini-Rig @ $15,000 ? How easy will it be to come up with another $15,000 just to be competitive again, rather than being left with a $15,000/25 GH DOOR STOP when that SAME Mining power will be purchased by NEW buyers at a FRACTION of the price ?
This is the exact scenario that is going to very bad for BFL if bitlane's conclusions are true. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait for BFL to clarify. +1 for clarification The silence is deafening...... |
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Gotcha. I was just curious, nothing had been updated and they are in a weird spot in the market so I was wondering what they were worth now.
In terms of $/MH, they are hard to beat. Especially considering they are near-new, under warranty cards. Sure a 5970 gives you slightly better ratios, but they are pushing 3 years old and have been worked to death. |
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Are these still for sale? If so, how much?
I have 2 used ones available.....only 2 months old.....the sealed in box ones are long gone. I will sell them for 60 BTC each.....includes shipping. |
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He doesn't seem to have any trouble raising a fuckton of capital through the sales of bonds, so it's a non-issue as far as I can tell.
That's heartless.... He IS the most trustworthy and SOLID member in the Mining Community and to see him fucked over ( whether you like him or not, which I particularly DO NOT) is JUST SAD. This is not personal....this is the PRINCIPAL of it all. Just because on a personal level I don't like him at times, it doesn't mean that I want to see his venture bankrupt. It's users like him that give Bitcoin Ventures LEGITIMACY and if he's fucked over, then what does that say in general about those who belong to and support the communities chances ? Dude, BFL being a bunch of shady fucks aside, Giga is not going to get screwed. He sold 40,000 bonds against his operation, and took in roughly $200,000! If he shuts down he will actually net a profit. His bondholders are on the line here, not him. |
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you go up i go down. how about we meet in the middle at 200?
How about 1 for 50 BTC? |
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this really is not rocket science.....
Giga pre-sold against future production to fund the purchase of the mini-rigs. He expected delivery a couple weeks ago, and can easily make the payments on the promised 200 GH/s out of the proceeds he took in from the bond offering. Keep in mind he sold these things at $1 per MH and above.....which seems ludicrous to me when you can buy the damn mini-rig for closer to $.60 per MH on your own.....but whatever floats your boat.
Considering he clears a profit on EVERY bond sold, he can make the coupon payments from thos profits for some time while BFL drags ass on delivery (like always).
I wish I was as clever....I would buy as many MH/s as I could at $.60/MH and sell them at $1.00/MH all day long. Pure profit.
Er ... am I mistaken or is a GIGA bond worth 5 MH/s ? Errr....am I mistaken that 1 BTC = about $6.00? $6/5MH = OVER $1 per MH. The maths are hard around here. My bad. Didn't see the $ sign. Not used to count things in fiat anymore. Honest mistake.....I have done worse! |
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this really is not rocket science.....
Giga pre-sold against future production to fund the purchase of the mini-rigs. He expected delivery a couple weeks ago, and can easily make the payments on the promised 200 GH/s out of the proceeds he took in from the bond offering. Keep in mind he sold these things at $1 per MH and above.....which seems ludicrous to me when you can buy the damn mini-rig for closer to $.60 per MH on your own.....but whatever floats your boat.
Considering he clears a profit on EVERY bond sold, he can make the coupon payments from thos profits for some time while BFL drags ass on delivery (like always).
I wish I was as clever....I would buy as many MH/s as I could at $.60/MH and sell them at $1.00/MH all day long. Pure profit.
Er ... am I mistaken or is a GIGA bond worth 5 MH/s ? Errr....am I mistaken that 1 BTC = about $6.00? $6/5MH = OVER $1 per MH. The maths are hard around here. |
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This bullshit FUD is in the wrong section anyways. Move it to Legal.
I don't know if I would classify it as FUD. BFL is clearly walking a thin line in regard to consumer protection/trade law. |
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Thank you Giga.
Your words sounds like fresh air here, you know how to transmit confidence to your investors.
That is why they call them confidence men they are good at it. Unlike certain trolls who aren't even very good at trolling  That would be statement of fact on the ponzi he is running right now with this venture and that is what they call people who do that. Who is running a ponzi  I don't understand ... No doubt not many around here do understand basic math or logic. This venture here since it does not have 200gh/s running to pay out btc from that hash rate is one. It has a claimed 45-50gh/s running so in order to pay out the btc on what was originally a 100gh/s bond those btc have to be coming from a source other than hashing as it is impossible to pay out 100 or 200gh/s from at most 50gh/s. The most likely source is the suckers investors who purchased the bond paying themselves out of their own btc already given, the classic definition of a ponzi scam. It is pretty strange as you mention, I have to agree. The guy claims this in OP "- I currently run 33Gh in GPUs (undervolted and underclocked to 28.5Gh for the summer) - I also run 15 Butterfly Labs singles @ 12.45Gh" but checking the farm status only shows 14 ghash/s LOL and to my knowledge this has not been explained. Could it be that he is paying the dividents after investing the bonds in pirate's operation and the divident is coming from there and not from mining Not amusing anyone of anything just relevant discussion. 7% cannot make up for a 50% shortfall on a 100gh/s bond let alone the 200 it now is. this really is not rocket science..... Giga pre-sold against future production to fund the purchase of the mini-rigs. He expected delivery a couple weeks ago, and can easily make the payments on the promised 200 GH/s out of the proceeds he took in from the bond offering. Keep in mind he sold these things at $1 per MH and above.....which seems ludicrous to me when you can buy the damn mini-rig for closer to $.60 per MH on your own.....but whatever floats your boat. Considering he clears a profit on EVERY bond sold, he can make the coupon payments from thos profits for some time while BFL drags ass on delivery (like always). I wish I was as clever....I would buy as many MH/s as I could at $.60/MH and sell them at $1.00/MH all day long. Pure profit. |
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I for one absolutely LOVE what you are trying to do. Being a finance geek, I would love the opportunity to sell call options against my future production.
Clearly the biggest issue you are going to face is generating sufficient volume in the contracts. I doubt you would be willing to be the counterparty to thousands of contracts miners will sell short?
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you go up i go down. how about we meet in the middle at 200?
thinking on it..... |
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