Bitcoin Forum
May 25, 2024, 09:34:35 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 »
161  Bitcoin / Legal / I questioned the "Bitcoin dev team" (Andresen & Co.) on complying with AML laws. on: October 12, 2012, 06:33:52 PM
It seems mum is the word. How they will react when they get a court order or executive order of any kind is anybody's guess. It's been made clear in court precedent that digital currencies with monetary value are subject to AML and other laws when developed or distributed on US territory. The Bitcoind software development, as it stands, may be compelled to comply through software patches or ceasing activities.

Although #bitcoin-dev supposedly is a open and transparent channel of the Bitcoind project, people were threatened for discussing a pertinent topic regarding development. Very suspicious.

[13:23] <agent8423> when the US government needs Bitcoin to comply with antimoney laundering laws will you guys comply in your development?
[13:24] <@jgarzik> their choice, and it helps full nodes
[13:24] <BlueMatt> jgarzik: uhhh...no its not
[13:24] <kjj_> ugh.
[13:24] <kjj_> agent8423: can't you leave that shit on the forums where it belongs?
[13:24] <@jgarzik> agent8423: offtopic for #bitcoin-dev
[13:24] <agent8423> but youre developers for Bitcoin? who am i supposed to ask?
[13:25] <gmaxwell> agent8423: uh. You're confused. There isn't anything like that we could do; nor are there any laws someone should rationally expect to be applicable there. Go ask coal mining equiment makers about their conformance with 'antimoney laundering laws'. Smiley
[13:25] == ThomasV_ [~ThomasV@200.180.97.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #bitcoin-dev
[13:25] <BlueMatt> jgarzik: its fine if an individual has a need for it and does it, and if its mentioned as an option, but it will no doubt be mentioned as heres how ALL users should get started, which is horrible ux and makes it all seem as poor as it is
[13:25] <Luke-Jr> I would appreciate if anyone can provide code reviews of new coinbase-creation code, especially the base58 parsing: https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=78192.msg1267851#msg1267851
[13:25] <kjj_> agent8423: it has been asked and answered a million times on the forums.  the government can ask us to change math, but we still can't do it
[13:25] <Luke-Jr> (the "code" link has the full diff)
[13:25] <MC1984> BlueMatt is right
[13:25] == denisx [~denis@91-65-138-255-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #bitcoin-dev
[13:26] <agent8423> kjj_: you can release software that complies. you may have to fork the chain but you will have to.
[13:26] <Luke-Jr> agent8423: Bitcoin is just cash. AML laws are for financial instutition
[13:26] <agent8423> we live in a nation of laws
[13:26] <MC1984> wary of hacky this becoming de facto standard procedure
[13:26] <@jgarzik> Luke-Jr: bitcoins are digital messages, not cash Smiley
[13:26] <kjj_> agent8423: math is math.  congress can't change math.
[13:27] <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: I'm simplifying :p
[13:27] <agent8423> schumer doesn't think so
[13:27] == mode/#bitcoin-dev [+o BlueMatt] by ChanServ
[13:27] <gmaxwell> agent8423: in any case, your question isn't concrete enough to form a meaningful answer.
[13:27] <@BlueMatt> next person to mention aml gets kicked
162  Other / Meta / Re: Moderator is doing a bad job on: October 12, 2012, 06:17:27 PM
we've been banished to a section of the forum where no one visits which is why the topic was moved in the first place.  don't waste my time.

you know full well what threads i'm talking about since you're the one who put them up.

save me the time.  you pull them up.

I remember covering many subjects that day. I think you're just mad that the Bitcoin Foundation hasn't risen to total power yet.
163  Other / Meta / Re: Moderator is doing a bad job on: October 12, 2012, 06:05:55 PM
have you noticed the boatload of threads that get moved?  how are those decisions made?  i would think mods should be impartial and not just keep threads they philosophically agree with.  that's what's happened here.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make.  That mods move threads to forum topics that better suit the discussion at hand?  And this is somehow a bad thing?

allowing 5-6 threads on the same topic simultaneously, by a guy like Atlas, bashing the devs and BF is inappropriate.  that's my opinion.
And yet you state "i would think mods should be impartial".  You don't see my confusion about the point you are trying to make?

On the one hand you state that the mods should not be impartial, that they should remove threads by Atlas that they disagree with.  On the other hand you state that mods should be impartial and imply that they should keep all threads and "not just keep threads they philosophically agree with".

Perhaps you are experiencing a bout of cognitive dissonance?


my original response to your comment got censored by hazek so let me repost:

i don't have a problem with Atlas putting up one post expressing his opinion on the topic but what he did, and was allowed to do, is put up 5-6 threads all on the same subject with slight variation which bashed the devs and BF.  don't make me go back and dig them up all posted on essentially the same day that the BF was announced.

Show us the evidence.
164  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If you want to know why I hate the dev team and how they treat Bitcoin... on: October 12, 2012, 06:01:16 PM

I don't even seek different properties. I like what we have now but I am afraid of future change proposed by a trusted and central developer.

What are the specific changes that you are afraid are coming?

The only specific complaint I've seen is, "core dev team shouldn't promote the (more secure, trustless) core dev client over thin wallets or webwallets."

It won't be known until it happens and it's pushed down our throats by a large number of supporters and the establishment. It's best to make such a change impossible.
165  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Wallet Poll on: October 12, 2012, 05:48:38 PM
Remarkable that you didn't mention BitcoinSpinner, the winner in the Android category a few days ago: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=116888.msg1251635#msg1251635

Added.
166  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If you want to know why I hate the dev team and how they treat Bitcoin... on: October 12, 2012, 04:49:46 PM
Who doesnt enjoy a good forking though?
A fork isn't effective if only a small number of people are using it. It's like seceding from the United States -- but you're only a single man in a apartment.
So you're for a centralized way of organizing development?


No, I'm for one currency with many competing developers.
167  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If you want to know why I hate the dev team and how they treat Bitcoin... on: October 12, 2012, 04:29:48 PM
Who doesnt enjoy a good forking though?
A fork isn't effective if only a small number of people are using it. It's like seceding from the United States -- but you're only a single man in a apartment.
168  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If you want to know why I hate the dev team and how they treat Bitcoin... on: October 12, 2012, 04:10:54 PM
Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.
Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...


Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.
Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.


I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

Well, aparently you don't like bitcoin the way they are since you're calling the devs names because they do not want to change.
You've got some major circular routings in your brain...


The devs aren't Bitcoin. That's the entire point.
Show me how that is true for the client and the protocols.


Who do you think assembles and markets the majority of mining software suites? Not the dev team. They only add to the protocol at their discretion and the miners could get vulnerabilities checked through other means.

As for clients, everybody is moving to online wallets, many with custom software.
The same people that thought the bitcoin system was good enough to build mining suites for. It was their choice to put trust in the system.



At that time. They have no obligation to continue trusting Bitcoind forever.
Of course they don't. But if they don't then they can start their own fork.


...or they can just ignore the dev team's releases and do what they want with the current Bitcoin blockchain.
Yeah, that's called a fork.

Not if the dev team's new release is in the minority. The dev team could be the one forking.
169  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If you want to know why I hate the dev team and how they treat Bitcoin... on: October 12, 2012, 03:42:31 PM
Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.
Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...


Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.
Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.


I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

Well, aparently you don't like bitcoin the way they are since you're calling the devs names because they do not want to change.
You've got some major circular routings in your brain...


The devs aren't Bitcoin. That's the entire point.
Show me how that is true for the client and the protocols.


Who do you think assembles and markets the majority of mining software suites? Not the dev team. They only add to the protocol at their discretion and the miners could get vulnerabilities checked through other means.

As for clients, everybody is moving to online wallets, many with custom software.
The same people that thought the bitcoin system was good enough to build mining suites for. It was their choice to put trust in the system.



At that time. They have no obligation to continue trusting Bitcoind forever.
Of course they don't. But if they don't then they can start their own fork.


...or they can just ignore the dev team's releases and do what they want with the current Bitcoin blockchain.
170  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Wallet Poll on: October 12, 2012, 03:41:30 PM
I think a fair number of people may use more than one option.

Well, this will have to be a preference poll because I can't change it to multiple choice. Sad
171  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If you want to know why I hate the dev team and how they treat Bitcoin... on: October 12, 2012, 03:37:49 PM
Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.
Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...


Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.
Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.


I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

Well, aparently you don't like bitcoin the way they are since you're calling the devs names because they do not want to change.
You've got some major circular routings in your brain...


The devs aren't Bitcoin. That's the entire point.
Show me how that is true for the client and the protocols.


Who do you think assembles and markets the majority of mining software suites? Not the dev team. They only add to the protocol at their discretion and the miners could get vulnerabilities checked through other means.

As for clients, everybody is moving to online wallets, many with custom software.
The same people that thought the bitcoin system was good enough to build mining suites for. It was their choice to put trust in the system.



At that time. They have no obligation to continue trusting Bitcoind forever.
172  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Bitcoin Wallet Poll on: October 12, 2012, 03:35:37 PM
Place your vote. Let's see what wallets are most used.
173  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If you want to know why I hate the dev team and how they treat Bitcoin... on: October 12, 2012, 03:30:39 PM
Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.
Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...


Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.
Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.


I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

Well, aparently you don't like bitcoin the way they are since you're calling the devs names because they do not want to change.
You've got some major circular routings in your brain...


The devs aren't Bitcoin. That's the entire point.
Show me how that is true for the client and the protocols.


Who do you think assembles and markets the majority of mining software suites? Not the dev team. They only add to the protocol at their discretion and the miners could get vulnerabilities checked through other means.

As for clients, everybody is moving to online wallets, many with custom software.
174  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If you want to know why I hate the dev team and how they treat Bitcoin... on: October 12, 2012, 03:13:04 PM
Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.
Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...


Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.
Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.


I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.

Well, aparently you don't like bitcoin the way they are since you're calling the devs names because they do not want to change.
You've got some major circular routings in your brain...


The devs aren't Bitcoin. That's the entire point.
175  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If you want to know why I hate the dev team and how they treat Bitcoin... on: October 12, 2012, 03:12:40 PM
If I just wanted "Bitcoins" to play around with like a kid and monopoly money, I would of created an alternate chain right now. That does not answer my concerns, at all -- AT ALL. The only thing worth defending is what we have now.

I am invested in a large sum of Bitcoins. I am guessing you guys have none. This is just a game for you, isn't it?
But if your concerns were valid a differnt coin with properties you seek should take off and become better than bitcoin. So it would be stupid not to do it if you realy think it's that important.
You would just transfer your bitcoins to the new coin and according to you it should outperform bitcoin (as bitcoin usability and thus growth is hampered by current development).
If what you ask for is really important then you have no way to lose.


No, success isn't guaranteed. The liquidity and support we have for Bitcoin is not a widely available commodity.

I don't even seek different properties. I like what we have now but I am afraid of future change proposed by a trusted and central developer. I am just speaking against possible dangers. That does not require me to run off and reinvent the wheel.

Like it or leave it doesn't apply in this case. It's actually like it and protect it.
This liquidity you talk of has been built up in just 2 years. That's peanuts.
And the things you speak of here are no what you OP was about.
You say you hate the devs and called them autists because they don't implement the features you want.
You were pretty specific.


No, I don't want the devs to implement any of my ideal features. I intended to claim the features should implement themselves. I only railed against their ideal solutions. I don't want a damn thing from them. I only want them not to do certain things.

Sounds like you want a change where the devs don't (yet) want it.


Exactly. And I don't need the dev's approval for my ideals to be implemented. They can be implemented with enough social resistance.
176  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If you want to know why I hate the dev team and how they treat Bitcoin... on: October 12, 2012, 03:06:39 PM
Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.
Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...


Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.
Yes, so we  come back to the point that has been discussed over and over.
If it is a free game for all then why don't you make your own coin?
My guess is you woudn't know where to start and that is why you complain.


I'll say it one last time: Making my own coin doesn't do anything towards the ends a lot of us espouse. We value our Bitcoins as they are and we intend to protect them.
177  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If you want to know why I hate the dev team and how they treat Bitcoin... on: October 12, 2012, 03:05:54 PM
If I just wanted "Bitcoins" to play around with like a kid and monopoly money, I would of created an alternate chain right now. That does not answer my concerns, at all -- AT ALL. The only thing worth defending is what we have now.

I am invested in a large sum of Bitcoins. I am guessing you guys have none. This is just a game for you, isn't it?
But if your concerns were valid a differnt coin with properties you seek should take off and become better than bitcoin. So it would be stupid not to do it if you realy think it's that important.
You would just transfer your bitcoins to the new coin and according to you it should outperform bitcoin (as bitcoin usability and thus growth is hampered by current development).
If what you ask for is really important then you have no way to lose.


No, success isn't guaranteed. The liquidity and support we have for Bitcoin is not a widely available commodity.

I don't even seek different properties. I like what we have now but I am afraid of future change proposed by a trusted and central developer. I am just speaking against possible dangers. That does not require me to run off and reinvent the wheel.

Like it or leave it doesn't apply in this case. It's actually like it and protect it.
This liquidity you talk of has been built up in just 2 years. That's peanuts.
And the things you speak of here are no what you OP was about.
You say you hate the devs and called them autists because they don't implement the features you want.
You were pretty specific.


No, I don't want the devs to implement any of my ideal features. I intended to claim the features should implement themselves. I only railed against their ideal solutions. I don't want a damn thing from them. I only want them not to do certain things.
178  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If you want to know why I hate the dev team and how they treat Bitcoin... on: October 12, 2012, 03:01:11 PM
Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.
Reminds me of a person living for free in a subway cart and calling it his home.
And then complains to the driver that the heating is broken...


Except Gavin Andresen and Co. are not the drivers. Satoshi was and he left. It's all free game now.
179  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If you want to know why I hate the dev team and how they treat Bitcoin... on: October 12, 2012, 02:58:45 PM
If I just wanted "Bitcoins" to play around with like a kid and monopoly money, I would of created an alternate chain right now. That does not answer my concerns, at all -- AT ALL. The only thing worth defending is what we have now.

I am invested in a large sum of Bitcoins. I am guessing you guys have none. This is just a game for you, isn't it?
But if your concerns were valid a differnt coin with properties you seek should take off and become better than bitcoin. So it would be stupid not to do it if you realy think it's that important.
You would just transfer your bitcoins to the new coin and according to you it should outperform bitcoin (as bitcoin usability and thus growth is hampered by current development).
If what you ask for is really important then you have no way to lose.


No, success isn't guaranteed. The liquidity and support we have for Bitcoin is not a widely available commodity.

I don't even seek different properties. I like what we have now but I am afraid of future change proposed by a trusted and central developer. I am just speaking against possible dangers. That does not require me to run off and reinvent the wheel.

Like it or leave it doesn't apply in this case. It's actually like it and protect it.
180  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If you want to know why I hate the dev team and how they treat Bitcoin... on: October 12, 2012, 02:51:36 PM
If I just wanted "Bitcoins" to play around with like a kid and monopoly money, I would of created an alternate chain right now. That does not answer my concerns, at all -- AT ALL. The only thing worth defending is what we have now.

I am invested in a large sum of Bitcoins. I am guessing you guys have none. This is just a game for you, isn't it?

Bitcoins are like my home. To tell me to leave my home or place my home in abandoned wasteland does not give me choice. It is basically win or lose and you are asking me to lose.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!