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1941  Economy / Economics / Institutional money now nearer than ever on: October 31, 2017, 04:54:55 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petertchir/2017/10/31/bitcoin-futures-are-finally-here/#6389fec26a0d

You can click on there and read the press release. I think this will pass, it's not the SEC that regulates this, it's a different process from ETF's. I think we are still not ready for an ETF, but Bitcoin futures could be good. Some worry about price manipulation as similarly seen by gold. I argue Bitcoin is a much different asset and you can't manipulate it as much as gold. The supply is clear, the market is global and nonstop. Gold's supply is unclear, nobody knows what's the limit of gold or how much is out there. The markets are not as global and they take breaks.

Good times for Bitcoin holders ahead, once again. I think we'll see the ETF around 2020 with an active lightning network, and the march towards 6 figures a Bitcoin will begin.
1942  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: For how long will be economically viable for miners to mine at a loss? (B2Xcoin) on: October 31, 2017, 04:30:09 PM
But we also know that there is bribing going on
We don't know that.  There is no evidence of that.  They also haven't been mining at a loss at all yet, they've just been signalling their intention to mine the SegWit2x chain.

It will most likely involve mining at a loss if the current percentage of hashrate support stays the same and the current cost of futures matches the price when the chain is created, but you need to point out these assumptions to make a reasoned argument.
If this is an operation funded by US Government, PBOC, or whatever other similar institution, they can print a lot of fiat to keep miners mining at a loss.
So you think that there's a non-negligible chance for a government to spend billions of dollars incentivising independent miners to individually mine at a loss, just so that the majority of BTC users would then choose to use a new Bitcoin client with a 2MB block size?
We do know that bitcoin is being attacked
Once again, this is a very shocking assumption to make.  You'd need to justify it pretty well.

The very second a miner starts mining at a loss it means he has a hidden agenda. Isn't it strange to you that Coinbase has put this arbitrary "48 hour limit" to decide and stick to what they will be listing as BTC? It sounds to me that they have the money to mine S2X chain at a loss for at least 48 hours, then they could be able to stop the bribing and keep listing S2X as BTC and then point at how they followed what they said they would do.

Bitcoin has the potential to become worth several trillions. A government would sure find incentives in having people like Jeff Garzik (bloq) as the main dev of the main branch of the software so they can make a call and introduce changes in the protocol that would benefit them. This is a war for power, everyone knows doubling the blocksizes solves nothing, and BCash is already out there for these that want cheaper transactions without caring about running an affordably sovereign node.

Bitmain has already threatened with attacking the chain before, this is not new, so you get ready for such an scenario before it happens.
1943  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: For how long will be economically viable for miners to mine at a loss? (B2Xcoin) on: October 31, 2017, 04:15:36 PM
I wouldn't worry much about these details honestly. We do know that bitcoin is being attacked and IMO it really doesn't matter who is doing it. Hashrate is irrelevant, It's up to the people to decide what they want and the fact that most exchanges announced that they will be listing it as B2X will only cause people to get their new coins and dump them, the price will go down too fast that no one will even think about making it the new bitcoin anymore.

Hashrate matters because in order to dump the shitcoin (B2X in this case) for the real bitcoin (BTC) you need SOME hashrate in order to do these transactions. I've heard experts claiming that 20% of hashrate is enough to survive and make these transactions viable. Even if it takes 100 blocks to get them confirmed, the market will find it's way to dump the shitcoin and put miners into a position where they have to either keep mining at a loss while the bribe money keeps coming, or stop being an idiot and go mine the real BTC because it will be more valuable.

It depends on how much they trust their bribers in keeping delivering money, how much they got, and how much of an idiot they are in general. When the bribing money is over, they will be facing bankruptcy, the question is again, how much money do bribers have to keep sustaining the attack?

And I have no doubt Brian Armstrong and co are going to get their asses sued after this.
1944  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: For how long will be economically viable for miners to mine at a loss? (B2Xcoin) on: October 31, 2017, 03:36:49 PM
They will always be an altcoin, miners have an incentive but it halves periodically and altcoin competition for miners will settle the market on PoW based currencies

But their goal is to potentially launch an attack on bitcoin, forcing the legacy chain to change the PoW hashing algorithm into something else so the attack isn't effective. This is a disaster in itself, so im not sure what we could call "real Bitcoin" anymore if we reach that point. The question is: how much money can the attackers spend on bribing miners to mine at a loss? Since Coinbase and Gemini talked about 48 hours approximately, it seems they have to spend for 2 days at least in order for Coinbase and Gemini to list B2X as BTC.
1945  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / For how long will be economically viable for miners to mine at a loss? (B2Xcoin) on: October 31, 2017, 02:01:18 PM
As we all know, there is a lot of hashrate with an intention to mine Jeff Garzik's coin, also known as Segwit2x, B2X, S2X, or any of the different flavors.

We know that this 95%, 90%, 80%, or whatever percentage number of intention of miner is total bullshit and will be exposed once the market starts talking. But we also know that there is bribing going on, in order to incentivize miners to keep mining at a loss, probably covering their losses + an extra profit for the effort. Obviously their goal is to kick "Core" and establish themselves as the main branch developers.

The question is, how much money can they waste on bribing miners to cover their losses? If this is an operation funded by US Government, PBOC, or whatever other similar institution, they can print a lot of fiat to keep miners mining at a loss. This could be a problem. Don't forget that none of these NYA signers care about Bitcoin's sovereignty, they just want more fiat.
1946  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: More "smart contract" type features coming to Bitcoin on: October 31, 2017, 12:59:19 PM
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-October/015217.html

I wonder: Do "smart contract" altcoins have any future? Between this and sidechains like Rootstock, it's going to be thought for alts when it comes to justifying their existence. Why are people going to want to deal with more tokens when BTC does everything'

Please read this - https://www.equities.com/news/wall-street-is-about-to-witness-disruption-on-a-phenomenal-level-with-blockchain
or this - https://www.financemagnates.com/thought-leadership/trust-not-trust-blockchain-can-mitigate-business-trust-barrier/

I really believe that blockchain can't give us that trust between parties that we need, and smart contracts can solve this problem

We'll see. Im not sold on the whole idea of smart ontracts just yet. We all saw what happened with the DAO, so if you want to make a smart contract viable, you still need to solve some fundamental problems that I still haven't seen solved, because the smart contracts themselves can have flaws and it can turn into a nice clusterfuck for hackers to exploit.

What I see as very valid is simplier smart contracts. Locktime verify is a smart contract for example.
1947  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / More "smart contract" type features coming to Bitcoin on: October 30, 2017, 07:20:44 PM
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-October/015217.html

The abstract:

Quote
Simplicity is a typed, combinator-based, functional language without loops and recursion, designed to be used for crypto-currencies and block- chain applications. It aims to improve upon existing crypto-currency lan- guages, such as Bitcoin Script and Ethereum’s EVM, while avoiding some of the problems they face. Simplicity comes with formal denotational semantics defined in Coq, a popular, general purpose software proof as- sistant. Simplicity also includes operational semantics that are defined with an abstract machine that we call the Bit Machine. The Bit Ma- chine is used as a tool for measuring the computational space and time resources needed to evaluate Simplicity programs. Owing to its Turing incompleteness, Simplicity is amenable to static analysis that can be used to derive upper bounds on the computational resources needed, prior to execution. While Turing incomplete, Simplicity can express any finitary function, which we believe is enough to build useful “smart contracts” for blockchain applications.

This looks like an improved Bitcoin Script, which could be delivered in a softfork just like segwit.

I wonder: Do "smart contract" altcoins have any future? Between this and sidechains like Rootstock, it's going to be thought for alts when it comes to justifying their existence. Why are people going to want to deal with more tokens when BTC does everything'
1948  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Whole Bitcoin Core 0.15 blockchain database on Google Drive on: October 30, 2017, 05:49:01 PM
I like the initiative of making Bitcoin Core nodes set up faster, but unfortunately, I don't think it's safe to download the Bitcoin blockchain from anywhere in the world but through the client itself as it validates it.

If you download it from a 3rd party, you risk that the blockchain has been somehow modified. The only way to know they are the exact same files as the ones being delivered by the client itself is through a checksum of sorts, but you would need to trust someone else to do that too.

Maybe im too paranoid, but I would rather go through the annoying process of downloading it myself on the Bitcoin Core client even if it's slower.
1949  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Manuscript on: October 30, 2017, 05:03:24 PM
Was there a bitcoin manuscript in the beginning from which people learnt about bitcoin and the technology, or all knowledge and explanations are just derived from experiences and tests?
Is whitepaper a document that can be considered a manuscript? Was there something else too with bitcoin, especially because it was the first one.

The only knowledge you could get back in 2008-2009 was the bitcoin dev mailing list... still to date the best thing to read on how things were built and developed. At the time, only satoshi and Hal Finney were interacting with each other (I think Hal Finney is satoshi but I will not go into that)

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/

There are older emails too between satoshi and Finney, not sure when the bitcoin dev mailing list was started but the archive only goes back to 2011

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/finneynakamotoemails.pdf

I dont know what you mean with manuscript exactly. I guess the only thing you could call that is the whitepaper itself.
1950  Economy / Speculation / Re: Could b2x be the future? on: October 30, 2017, 04:10:50 PM
No replay protection means this coin wont exist after all, so no value in the future.




Their main argument is that since they have the most hashpower, it's everyone else which should be adding replay protection, not them. I call total bullshit on this claim, it's them that are trying to hardfork, not the rest of the world, therefore they should get shit done before coming up with the fantastic idea of a hardfork consisting on bribed CEO's while the rest of the community doesn't want any of this.

This hardfork will be solved as the rest: It will get dumped, and miners will either go bankrupt trying to mine B2X at a loss, or act ractional and mine the most valuable chain (the legacy chain). I give it a month max until the hardfork is resolved completely. Jeff Garzik will not win.
1951  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Bitcoin Core Qt-Forks of BCH/BTG/Segwit on: October 30, 2017, 03:39:29 PM
Ok yes, thanks Cellard and jackg, I think I understand it...what you described is helpfull as I only need 2 versions of the blockchain to achieve it.....and is otherwise what I was thinking.

The fact I cannot use my original address afterwards I find slightly worrying as I use it in so many sites....but hopefully they can update address and all then use my new btc address.... hopefully

So if I wait until after the Btcx2 fork, do I `dig` each new forks currency from the same original bitcoin address? Or does the new currency value follow where the original bitcoin balance is .... for example:

... if I use btc address 1, send it to btc address 2, then `dig` btc address 1 for BCC from BCC blockchain(as described)....when I then do the same to BTG would I `dig` from Btc address 1? As I`m thinking that the fork will hold value that was present at the time of the fork...in your explanation we move my balance of Btc to my fresh address, which shows that the balance is held on the blockchain at the time of the fork and doesn`t necessarily follow the actual balance...unless as you warned someone were to `dig` btc address 2 before I had `dug` Btc address 1.

Thanks for understanding my caution.

Yes, another reason hardforks are a pain in the ass is that since you have to move around your cold storage into new addresses, if you have receiving addresses that other people have to send you period payments, you will need to tell them to update to a new address in the wallet you are using. For example, everyone in signature campaigns will need to tell managers to change their addresses after the fork if you want to access the coins on the other chain (because you will need to move all of your BTC to new BTC addresses before doing so)

You will receive whatever BTC you have in a particular address at the time of the fork.

BTCAddress1 has 0.24 BTC

B2XAddress1 has 0.24 BTC

Both are the same address, but BTC means BTC chain, B2X means segwit2x chain.

The point of moving BTCAddress1 into a new BTCAddress2 is to avoid replay attack due matching addresses on both chains. Just do this before anything else and you will be OK.
1952  Economy / Economics / Re: The Bond Bubble and How Humanity Will Be Robbed By Banks Soon on: October 29, 2017, 07:54:53 PM
I don't see how a bonds collapse could be avoided at this point, it's simply too much of a clusterfuck to dodge. A president of the United States, be it Trump or the next one, is going to need to deal with it. They either try to pass laws to try to make the agony longer to attempt to pass the problem upon the next president, or they burst the bubble (but no president is courageous enough to want to go through that).

Meanwhile, the millennials buying Bitcoin that are now being ridiculed by the boomers will be laughing as Bitcoin reaches new heights while boomers wish they bought as they try to dump their bonds.
1953  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Bitcoin Core Qt-Forks of BCH/BTG/Segwit on: October 29, 2017, 06:16:58 PM
Bob and Jack...thanks for the advices....ie do it all on my own HD with new wallets....

So... by `new wallet` do you mean `create new wallet address` in Qt wallet, or make a totally seperate instance of Qt syncing to a totally seperate version of the blockchain on my HD?(I can copy and rescan the one`s I have for instance....so then there would be four of them on my HD, is that what you mean?)

My BCC wallet has currently a different address to my Btc address and is syncing to a seperate version of the blockchain on my HD...so when I import keys or dat...it will momentarily have the same address as my btc wallet right? Then I send to my unique BCC address....on its own seperate copy of the blockchain....and then the BCC is safely seperated.

Then once seperated....is it safe to continue using my original Btc address? Or will I need to use the one I send to that will hold the btc during this process? I`ve heard it said NOT to use from then on...why would that be necessary?

This process will be needed for each fork....BCC, BTG...and BTC2x?? But can be done after they fork and prove stable ?

Thanks again....

Im not sure i've understood your message, seems like you are confused. Let's make it simple with a step by step list:

-Make a backup of your Bitcoin Core wallet.dat file
-Close your client and rename the wallet.dat file to something else (wallet1.dat) then open it again so a new wallet.dat is created
-Create receiving addresses for your bitcoins, copy them on a txt file, close your client.
-Rename this wallet.dat to something else (wallet2.dat) and rename wallet1.dat back into wallet.dat to access it
-Proceed to send all of your coins to the addresses that you've saved in a txt file that belong to the now named wallet2.dat
-Once your wallet is empty, you are now safe to move this empty wallet into whatever fork's coins you want to access (let's say, the Bitcoin ABC client for Bitcoin Cash, the btc1 client for B2X...)
-Don't forget to rename wallet2.dat back to wallet.dat so you can access your actual BTC
-Once you have synced the fork's client, your coins will show up, and now you can send them to an exchange because the addresses will not be matching with the legacy chain. I recommend dumping them for more BTC.

Even if a fork claims to have replay protection, always empty your wallet first by moving your coins to avoid matching addresses and wait for a while to confirm everything is working, then you can transact as usual.
1954  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bulltrap? Or Bull run restored? on: October 29, 2017, 04:42:40 PM
From 3000 to 3600 btc/usd

Bulltrap? Or Bull run restored?







Bulltrap:
China closes exchanges and price rises?!

Bull run restored:
Bounced on weekly MA20

I've been monitoring all day. My eyes are dry, red, and sore, but it was worth it. My prediction for the ascending triangle breakout came true, and we crossed $6000. The Bitcoin Gold nonsense is already over. Now we are going to try to break the last all time high, and we are going to do this before November 19th which is where the damn segwit2x nonsense will end into a hardfork, then is anywhere's guess what will follow.

A lot of people will lose their money, except the smart people that are holding their own coins and not doing anything stupid, like sending BTC into an B2X address. What I think it's clear is, long term, B2X is pretty dead, what's important is how the situation will unfold during Nov-Dec. By January 2018 we should have a clear winner which hopefully is BTC going into 5 figures with dead big blockers.
1955  Economy / Speculation / Re: Difficulty jumps 21% on: October 29, 2017, 03:53:05 PM
A huge leap. Is this 'organic' or is it somehow part of the 2x plan to kill off the old chain with a fatally elongated readjustment period?

What do you think?

I don't think it could be part of the Segwit 2x plan. This would increase confirmation times and time to find new blocks, but it wouldn't kill the old chain. As others have said - I think it is market related. New mining capacity coming in and miners moving from BCH.

The segwit2x plan consists on a teamed up Coinbase+miners bribed mining at a loss during 48 hours in order for Coinbase to list, and stick to, the BTC tag for the segwit2x chain. In other words, they will list B2X as BTC which will be really confusing for noobs. Their excuse will be that the highest difficulty was on their side for these 48 hours that their arbitrarily choose as a threshold. This is of course because of the ongoing bribes.

We'll see how this resolves, but I can see serious class actions and subpoenas coming for Coinbase.

You just can't trust exchanges, not a single one. Control your keys and interact with them as minimum as possible. Get your money in and out and avoid giving them your personal information, they are crooks.
1956  Economy / Economics / Re: Number Of Bitcoin Miners In Venezuela Swells To 100,000 on: October 28, 2017, 06:40:39 PM
This article is bullshit. No one in that country accepts transactional payments in bitcoin, the citizens of Venezuela are still using their fiat currency to pay for day to day stuff (bills, cab fare, groceries, etc), meaning that bitcoin hasn't become a de facto currency. Electricity in venezuela is cheap, which allows them to mine bitcoin and other cryptos with a big profit margin for miners due to the fact that electricity is virtually free. Those bitcoins still have to be sold in the black market for fiat.
This is not how the bitcoinization of a sovereign state should be.

If Venezuelans can make a good profit mining due cheap electricity, they are only lacking accepting bitcoins in return of goods and services. If they choose not to, maybe it's their fault for being idiots. They could circumvent the entire fiat mess by doing so, but they still choose to carry bags of papers to do groceries.

I guess they can't afford a cheap phone or tablet to install electrum? or they just refuse to accept bitcoin payments? because on than that case then that's their fault.
1957  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Record information in the Bitcoin blockchain on: October 28, 2017, 05:39:24 PM
Very clear, thank you.

On the note of using blockchain for other use cases than Bitcoin, I found these two articles that throw a wet blanket over the blockchain-but-not-bitcoin hype:

"Talking about “blockchain architectures” could actually be a codeword for “MySQL”. Everything that these vendors offer can be done in a MySQL database centrally controlled and secured with GPG. I have described how this would work in a previous essay ."

https://hackernoon.com/why-central-banks-will-fail-at-digital-currency-2a0f47e827cb


"Blockchain consultants have built prototypes for stock trading, asset registry, voting and payment clearance. But none of them have been commercially deployed because they are more expensive than simpler methods relying on established database and software stacks, as the government of Vermont recently concluded."

https://www.americanbanker.com/opinion/blockchain-wont-make-banks-any-nimbler


The future for niche use cases in blockchain should be sidechains/drivechains (not sure what the difference is between these 2) but the point is, blockchains that are backed by the main bitcoin blockchain and benefit from its hashrate and so on (even tho it could also be mined on its own I think), also no need to create a damn new token each time. Brief explanation by Andreas A here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t6ejqkErfU
1958  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: BTC compared to BTG. on: October 28, 2017, 04:16:31 PM
Hellow guys share your idea about this new altcoin now in market cap.
Should I hold this like what I did in BTC?

I think it's way better to sell it, but you can hold it if you want. There are a few things I don't like about this coin. They claim they want to make mining decentralized again, and that they want a fair distribution of the coin. To do that they will make it an ASIC resistant coin, so you can mine it with a GPU. I'm ok with that, although there are already several options like in the market. Bitcore is one example of that, and it offers way more things than the bgold thing.

As for the fair distribution, they even did it worst I guess. First they got some pre-mined coins (that they can just sell for profit if they want), and second wouldn't it be better to distribute the coins with an airdop? If they are mirroring the actual distribution of BTC how are they making it any fairer?

I wouldadvise you to sell it and buy more BTC with it, but if you really want to invest in the GPU mining thing, then I suggest you sell bgold and buy BTX, it's cheaper, and it's far more advanced than bgold in my opinion.

But how can I sell it if I can't access it? I got my coins in a Bitcoin Core wallet.dat file, im looking at the https://bitcoingold.org/ website and under the "Wallets" section, all I see is:

-Coinomi
-Guarda
-Freewallet

So what the hell im looking at? It's confusing. Why isn't there a "Bitcoin Core Gold" software so I can safely access the coins? I must be missing something here...

1959  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BTC FUD on: October 28, 2017, 02:23:05 PM
Has anyone noticed every time bitcoin increase its value some of the big guys come to say how bitcoin is bubble, people don't know what they are doing, people will lose money and so on, and every time bitcoin decreases its value they all become quiet?
In my opinion they are all big manipulators and no one should pay any attention on what they say.

Indeed. The latest 2 big names that i've heard after the Jamie Dimon and Robert Shiller FUD are Al-Waleed Bin Talal bin Abdulaziz al Saud (yes, that's his full name, and he has 20 billion networth, a Saudi prince) claiming Bitcoin is a bubble.

Warren Buffet, another billionaire investor, recently claimed BTC is a bubble too (funny that Al-Waleed is called the "arabian Warren Buffet")

I noticed how Jamie Dimon and Peter Schiff are claiming how "it could go to $100,000 before it crashes". This is how "in case im wrong... I will still be right" looks like.
1960  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Record information in the Bitcoin blockchain on: October 27, 2017, 06:31:09 PM
I'm trying to understand if there is a way to use the Bitcoin blockchain to record information. Say I am a business and would like to publish information to my clients through the Bitcoin blockchain; information that would therefore 1) be publicly available, 2) fully trustworthy (rather trustless) since verified and part of the Bitcoin network, and 3) be hashed/illegible to anyone but the client with the right key.

Let's take an example. Is it possible to use Bitcoin for example in a supply chain tracking business?

I guess what I am asking is, is it possible to use the Bitcoin blockchain for other use cases than as output of Bitcoin nodes verifying a new block and locking it to its predecessor?

I tried to search but didn't find anything (or I'm not a good searcher).

Thanks for any help.

The blockchain is not really intended to fill it with stuff other than bitcoin transactions, but you can add messages to your transactions. Example:

https://eternitywall.it/

So you could post a link there, or just identify yourself as owner of a certain BTC address and sign messages with your address, but I don't see how you can actually put big walls of text there, let alone attach pictures or other things.
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