That doesn't really mean anything. Any domain owner can redirect a domain to any other domain. Actually I found that kinda strange if they are looking to rebrand "gox" you wouldn't want it directing to the existing failed site. |
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I see that Gox is taking the coca-cola rout here. Remove a product then bring it back later with a different name... but its still the same crap...
So after six months after launching gox.com they are going to relaunch MtGox "classic".  It incredibly worked for coke. coca-cola so more coca cola "classic" they year it launched then the last full year of coca-cola. |
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MtGox price is no longer on bitcoinity.  Are you looking at a different bitcoinity? Click the link upthread. |
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Hi All, This may have been explained in another post but there's something I don't get: http://bitcoinity.org/markets/mtgox/USDOn an exchange which doesn't trade, how can the price be anything above 0$? When the website is inaccessible, shouldn't it be removed from any indexers? I'm guessing the MTGox API is still live, and if so, I don't get how the price is variable when people can't buy or sell. Thanks! Write to bitcoinity (and other sites) and ask them to remove the quote from dead exchanges. I mean is anyone still showing the last quote for Tradehill, bitcoinica, and countless other failed exchanges? It is stupid and pointless. |
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I can see how those deluded with the anonymity of Bitcoin could be worried that their trades on Silk Road or Silk Road 2 could be traced back to them but they'd have to be idiots not to realize that the blockchain is a record of every trade. Please define how you are attempting to use the term "trade" in this context? Organized crime ran into the problem of computers tracking money in US banks a long time ago. They moved to hanging valuable artwork on their walls and the like. What to do with the money was/is a real problem for organized crime.
You'll argue that I should explain exactly how the stolen/missing Bitcoins can be tracked or identified. I can't. But I've never argued I could. Perhaps somebody on the board of the Bitcoin Foundation can.
We are arguing no such thing... We are arguing that you don't know what the fuck you are talking about and we are trying to drop some knowledge on you that you are ignoring. =squeak= After the US government seized Bitcoins, the Bitcoin Foundation considered making those specific Bitcoins worthless. They questioned why allow the seizing government to profit and to gain the leverage of perhaps dumping those Bitcoins to effect Bitcoin value at some critical juncture. They would likely have brainstormed how to do that back then. If MtGox can identify how and when it got ripped off of which Bitcoins perhaps the Bitcoin Foundation can make those worthless for the time being or until it's sorted out. The Bitcoin Foundation doesn't control my node (or anyone's node). Bitcoin is a consensus system. So you want it so whatever coins the Foundation says are worthless, become worthless. You can't possibly see the problem with having an entity with an off switch to the entire Bitcoin network, an absolute central power in a "decentralized network"? Can't think of any way that could be possibly be abused? Nobody will agree to a Bitcoin where a single entity can at will freeze coins. Bitcoins works on consensus if people don't agree to that fork, it will never be used. |
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Print two copies and store them in different secure locations. For added security you may wish to encrypt the paper wallet (BIP38) but understand if you forget the passphrase the coins are permanently lost so weigh the risk of forgetting the passphrase vs the risk of an unencrypted paper wallet being stolen.
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But why not stop those bitcoins from being traded ASAP. You keep (intentionally) ignoring this question. Who would do this? On what authority? How would they do it? In related news the top 500 bitcoin addresses are mine and were just stolen please freeze them. |
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With that scenario, your computer is not yours, government can take it. If you have no computer, you have no bitcoins.
What if I told you that you could store your bitcoins not on a computer and you could make multiple redundant encrypted copies to ensure you retain control even if a single copy remains? |
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To my knowledge the US government never seized any bitcoins from MtGox. Still even the US government doesn't have a magical freeze bitcoins override switch. In the case of the silk road they seized the bitcoins because .... they seized the private keys.
As DPR is learning right now:
If you don't have the private key for "your" bitcoins then you have no bitcoins.
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Bitcoin has no centralized ledger of ownership.
I think it does -- the block chain. Bitcoin in itself is perfectly organized. Until you insert humans into the equation. The blockchain is a ledger but it isn't centralized, it is decentralized. It has no central authority, changes to the ledger are by consensus. |
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If I lose the keys to my house, it's still my house.
Excellent point. If you do not have private key for your house, then you still own the house. Bitcoins are not houses. The key to a house only grants access, ownership of houses is by a centralized ledger run by the state. This is why if you lose your house key, you may have a temporary loss of access but you still own the house. The entry in the state's ledger will still list you as the owner. Bitcoin has no centralized ledger of ownership. It was intended to remove the need for a centralized ledger of ownership thus the private key for bitcoins is more relevant than the key to your house. |
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Bitcoin Axiom #0 - If you do not have the private keys for your bitcoins, then you have no bitcoins.
If you deposit your bitcoins with an exchange then although their site may display an amount of bitcoins what you have is an IOU for a certain amount of bitcoins. An IOU is a form of debt, it only has value as long as it is honored. A significant portion of debt is never repaid. Bitcoin has no counterparty risk, a bitcoin IOU does have counterparty risk.
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Back to the missing Bitcoins and the original question. Identify the Bitcoins and stop them in their tracks. Whether double spent or stolen, mine are mine and if MtGox sent them to someone else that's theft.
You're not a newbie based on the post count... you should know by now that what you suggest is impossible. Even if it was possible, it would not be fair: The "illegal" bitcoins may have been part of hundreds of transactions after leaving Gox. Those transactions may be totally normal trades between people who had no idea that you would later declare their money illegal. Who are you to say those trades are now void? Who am I? the rightful owner of those Bitcoins. Sadly you are not. If you don't have the private key for "your" bitcoins then you have no bitcoins. What you do have is an IOU from MtGox to repay you x BTC at such time when you choose to withdraw them. You own debt from MtGox. MtGox has failed to honor that debt. That is the problem with debt. It is often not repaid. The advantage of Bitcoin is that it has no counterparty risk however if you hand over your Bitcoins in exchange for IOUs then you are giving up that advantage. If you don't have the private key for "your" bitcoins then you have no bitcoins.As for saying you are the rightful owner. Says who? Based on what evidence? Who judges that evidence? How do they have the master control key for the Bitcoin network? |
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If you read their documents, you will see that Mt Gox STILL does not understand that customer deposits are NOT "assets of Mt. Gox". It is a complete shit show and I cannot wait for the perp walks because maybe that will wake some idiots up that this is not a game.
That is the crazy thing. Customer deposits should never be listed on a company balance sheet unless that company is a bank. Customer deposits should be segregated, independent of the company's accounts. The revenue (in the form of fees) deducted from the customer deposits are transferred to the company's books as they occur (or daily in batches). |
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Waiving fee does nothing to recover confidence, and surely will not help people get their coins back
It increases trade volume, that increases price. Nobody is talking about getting bitcoins back, but recovering the price. Higher trading volume doesn't mean higher price. Price can decline on increasing volume. It frequently does in a crash. |
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Back to the missing Bitcoins and the original question. Identify the Bitcoins and stop them in their tracks. Whether double spent or stolen, mine are mine and if MtGox sent them to someone else that's theft.
Because Bitcoin is decentralized. You say "stop" those "bad" Bitcoins. Who stops them and who decided which ones are bad? The central agency of bitcoin thefts and disputes? What is the level of proof? What if someone lied and just said coins were stolen? Is there an appeal process? How does this agency pay for itself (you don't think thousands of people investigating millions of disputes a year is going to be done for freee)? Maybe we should put a 2% tax into the network on each transactions to fund the central agency of bitcoin thefts and disputes? What happens when a government puts guns to the heads of people in the agency and says "forcibly confiscate the coins of these political disidents"? Bitcoin is decentralized. There is no appeal to a central authority. Bitcoin is like cash. If you leave your wallet on the subway and someone steals it you aren't getting the money back. Bitcoin is like cash. Bitcoin is like cash. Bitcoin is like cash. Start treating it like cash. |
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No SeaSonic? They are the standard. They actually build their powersupplies unlike every company on the list. |
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So it is your belief that the attackers stole 1M BTC and then what, deleted the private key for lolz instead of I don't know spending them?
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Leaked documents, bro.
Yeah once again ... How would anyone other than MtGox know that? Hell how would anyone other than MtGox even know if that is true? (in case you are confused I am not saying it isn't true) |
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The self-proclaimed "world's largest bitcoin exchange" is basically saying it is to hard to take a collection of their own addresses, count the amount of BTC constituted by all unspent outputs in that wallet, and compare it with the expected balance.
The question is - how many other exchanges have been robbed blind and aren't aware of it? This exchange has lost 750,000 BTC. My God, you'd think that would be like trying to drive a dumptruck full of nitroglycerin through an obstacle course. Yet somehow, this was pulled off. Gox 'n' company might be unusually idiotic, but don't bet on it. Perhaps there is more to this story than meets the eye. What if TX malleability wasn't really to blame? Another vulnerability perhaps? Are other exchanges being milked dry before our very eyes? Who knows. Just checked (well that is a lie it is an automatic check every midnight) and BitSimple has every single satoshi it is expected to have. Of course that doesn't really matter to anyone except the company and investors because BitSimple never holds any user bitcoins. We believe they are safest IN YOUR WALLET. So we will buy them with no confirmations right from any wallet you might be using. If you want to buy bitcoins we will send them directly to your wallet. If BitSimple was robbed blind tomorrow the only one who would lose anything is investors. Then again they are the ones who profit so that is only fair right? |
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