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2041  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: bitinstant paycard on: August 20, 2012, 02:24:54 AM
As awesome as it is to be able to actually -buy- things with my bitcoins, the very concept of creating this alternative decentralized currency free of the issues of credit cards, merely to add those issues on for convenience again is mind-numbing. I'll take one, don't get me wrong, because I love spending bitcoins-- but isn't this like being a cop and doing coke that you confiscate? Shouldn't we feel like we're destroying Bitcoin by not making it work in -other- ways, or is this going to be the way that gets it working more? Thoughts anyone?
Good point. The big huge plus is it means bitcoin can be used for every day transactions so its a foot in the door. The transaction fees will push folks towards using bitcoin directly, any smartphone or PC can do that, the main hurdle is getting them accepted and in use.

I suppose so. I retract my initial inquiry entirely. It seems as long as we can 'sneak it in" and people say "If I use bitcoins, I can't spend them!", this can always be that slap in the face they need. That said, I feel really sorry for -any- company trying to offer these services because it seems like they're only going to be defrauded. I hope I'm wrong.

Why would the issuer be defrauded?  They have your bitcoins, and they can claw back anything they pay to a vendor.  I'm surprised it took this long for someone to see that.
2042  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: bitinstant paycard on: August 20, 2012, 02:22:04 AM
As awesome as it is to be able to actually -buy- things with my bitcoins, the very concept of creating this alternative decentralized currency free of the issues of credit cards, merely to add those issues on for convenience again is mind-numbing. I'll take one, don't get me wrong, because I love spending bitcoins-- but isn't this like being a cop and doing coke that you confiscate? Shouldn't we feel like we're destroying Bitcoin by not making it work in -other- ways, or is this going to be the way that gets it working more? Thoughts anyone?

This seems silly to me.  As a credit card user, I absolutely love credit cards.  They are super convenient, and totally free (if you don't carry a balance and don't have an annual fee).  Having a credit (debit) card that converts from bitcoin on the fly is super awesome.

As a vendor, however, credit cards blow ass.  They have insane fees, they are slow, and they have chargebacks.

I'll be happy to pay bitcoin to any vendor that accepts bitcoin, but I'll be just as happy to use a credit card with any vendor that doesn't.  Their problems, not mine.
2043  Economy / Speculation / Re: The recurring trouble-cycle of bitcoins, and why I'm here. on: August 20, 2012, 12:05:04 AM

What we have now is that people know something is wrong, in their gut, they are a bit resentful of how much is being stolen directly from them, and they instinctively have the impulse to speculate because their store of "value" buys less and less every year.  

i totally agree with this and it's my supposition that this entire rise off the $2 level has been driven by this market instinct and NOT pirate.  i'm constantly amazed by how ppl around here panic based on such concocted theories and comments from a ponzi schemer and scammer.

In general, people have very predictable preferences.

1 - They are in control.
2 - They aren't in control, but someone is.
3 - No one is in control, shit just happens.

People can obviously see that #1 isn't true for most things, so they go with #2 because they like it better than #3.  This is why insane conspiracy theories are so common and popular.
2044  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The original Bitcoin client sucks. on: August 19, 2012, 07:32:58 PM
3) It would also be useful if the Satoshi client was refactored into three independent components:

* the library
* the node
* the client/GUI
What we have here is the classic old money/new money split.

Old money wants control and protection of their hard-won assets.

New money wants a toolset to integrate with their means of producing, well, new money.

This will not be easy to reconcille. If you want to see how this worked here look no furter than the recent sidelining of Armory by the use of compressed keys in the wallet.

Old money want protection first of all. Therefore they will push for the almost paranoidal security stance. The best example is the use of the deterministic build system Gitian. This is an exact opposite what a system integrator would need.

Deterministic builders were pretty much discredited long ago, approximately during Star Wars, then under the name of "Deterministic Ada compilers." But they recently had a revival amongst those unfamiliar with the history of the computer science.

I'm going to predict that the refactoring of the existing Satoshi legacy code will not occur for a long time.

wtf?
2045  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [400GH/s] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool on: August 19, 2012, 03:40:09 PM
So what happens if I get no shares for a block on BTC does that also mean no shares on namecoin?

Namecoin is not pooled.

If you are running a local namecoind instance, your namecoin earnings, if any, go straight into that wallet.  Namecoin difficulty is currently at about a million, so don't expect a whole lot if you are a smaller operation.  I think my moderately sized p2pool setup is picking up a namecoin block every other month, on average.
2046  Economy / Auctions / Re: 2* 3 Oz Silver - Starting at 50% Spot on: August 18, 2012, 11:04:42 PM
4.5 BTC
2047  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: no balance per address shown in bitcoin-qt? on: August 17, 2012, 11:21:53 AM
The stock client isn't really intended for that.  If you want a safe offline wallet, use Armory or just generate keys with vanitygen and use blockexplorer to track the balances.
2048  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Proposal (+ Proof of Concept Software): AES-Encrypted Bitcoin Private Keys on: August 16, 2012, 06:23:21 AM
* The 32 bits of salt will simply be the first 32 bits of SHA256(the expected bitcoin address in ASCII) to double as a typo check.
* The KDF will be scrypt with the following parameters: N=1024, r=8, p=1, and a derived key length of 64 bytes.

The selection of the parameters of scrypt are meant to make the encryption approximate a CPU's cost of generating a bitcoin address, at least within an order of magnitude or three.  One bit is available for specifying different scrypt parameters - at whichever point this is isn't enough, I believe it ought to be done with a new prefix (e.g. 6P instead of 6p) so compatibility and strength is visible to the user.

The defaults for scrypt are N=214, r=8, p=1.  (From the original presentation in 2009).  I wouldn't go any lower unless you are pretty sure that these need to be usable on devices with less than 16 MB RAM available.

In my opinion, the salt should be random and stored in the output.  If you base the salt on the output, then you need the encrypted key and the public key both to recover the private key.  This isn't an overwhelming requirement, but still seems silly.
2049  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Chip designs that could impact Bitcoin: 3D stacking on: August 15, 2012, 12:06:15 PM
@kjj -  Grin

It's probable the extra energy comes from Zero Point Energy.

Quote
Energy in space was battering the atoms and effecting (the electrons orbital shifts) their movements
According to Robert S. Mulliken in noting anomolies in the Red Shift

Max Plank, Albert Einstein, Otto Stern, Walther Nernst recognized that this pervasive (Zero Point) energy was a universal phenomena and intrinsic to space.

Werner Heisenberg understood that Planck's Constant was actually the measurement of the uncertainty in position of subatomic particles. By 1962, it was realized that this uncertainty of position was caused by the battering from "the Zero Point Energy".

In 1987, Hal Puthoff showed that electrons stayed in their orbits and did not go either spinning out or spinning in due to expended energy precisely because of the energy they received from the Zero Point Energy.

Zero Point Energy is 10^95 ergs/cm^3
It has Permattivity, Evo (Absolute dielectric constant); Permiability, Uva (absolute magnetic constant); Intrinsic impedance, Z = {Evo/Uva}^1/3

Nope.  Electrons are held in orbit by exchanging photons with the nucleus.  There is no mystery about it.  The photons involved are not part of the zero point field, they are (by definition) the excess photons above and beyond zero point levels.  QED calculations on this match experimental data to as many decimal places as we are capable of calculating and measuring, which is quite a few.

I'm about as sympathetic a person as you'll ever find towards alternate physics and free energy investigation.  But the current physics is not the result of a conspiracy or a mistake.  It is correct in every way that we know how to look at it, and has resisted our every attempt to poke holes in it.  So far.
2050  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: How Large is BTCST exposure? on: August 15, 2012, 04:25:21 AM
which day of the week does he pay out the interest? just for me to know when to look for a default...

if you take 500k bitcoin at a 6% interest per week that would make 10M bitcoin in only one year - more than in existence...

Which would be a huge bummer if he ever needed, for some ungodly reason, to accumulate all of the payout before making it.
2051  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Chip designs that could impact Bitcoin: 3D stacking on: August 15, 2012, 04:23:38 AM
...
I only brought it up as speculation for cooling the 3D CPU stack, maybe a bit tongue in cheek, but now I'm defending anomolous physics claims.  Shocked

...somewhat unconvincingly.
What keeps an electron in it's orbit around a proton? What prevents it's orbit from decaying or the electron flying off?

Erm.  These questions have been answered.  Like 50 years ago.

In order, they are the electric force, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (or the Pauli Exclusion Principle, if you prefer a different german) and the electric force.

Classical mechanics lost.  I was unhappy about it too, just like I imagine you are going to be some day.  But unless Puthoff and company can some up with a testable prediction that goes in favor of SED, the winner is going to remain QED.
2052  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Chip designs that could impact Bitcoin: 3D stacking on: August 14, 2012, 10:45:14 PM
IIRC The chip used for the Raspberry PI was built using a similar idea. It doesn't sound as advanced but generally similar. Broadcom mounted the dies for the GPU and RAM on top of the CPU in the same SoC package.

This is POP packaging.  Part on Part.  It takes two normal chips, fully encased as usual, and stacks them, usually using something like BGA.  They are different dies, built at different times, and probably in different fabs, then assembled later.

3D chips are different.  A typical flat chip is made up of dozens of layers of depositation and etching.  You start with a bare wafer, and etch part of it away, then deposit a thin layer on top of that, then etch part of that away, then deposit another layer, and etch, etc, etc.  You end up with a flat 2D structure of 3D objects, made all at once.

A real 3D chip has layers of groups of layers, creating a 3D structure of 3D objects.

Right now, we have problems moving heat out of the chips we have, and not so much problems with a lack of transistors available on a die.  But that's how progress works, the best we can do is the product of a whole pile of limitations, and people are busy fighting back all of them.  In time, 3D chips will become just "chips", just like color TVs all became just "TVs".
2053  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [8 BTC Bounty] Update bitcoind build script for v0.6.3 on Centos 32-bit & 64-bit on: August 14, 2012, 04:25:03 PM
Im on CentOS 5.7 and all I get is "FATAL: install glibc-static"... so I checked and it seems that there are only RPMs for CentOS 6 :/
Do you perhaps have an fix for this?

Same in CentOS 5.8.  Yum does not know a package named glibc-static, rpmfind.net only knows it for CentOS 6 with version 2.12 compared to version 2.5 of regular glibc installed on 5.8.
2054  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Bitcoin-Qt, the future Bitcoin client GUI [user input needed] on: August 14, 2012, 03:14:56 PM
The new release looks much better but I still can't find out how much the total fees are to send coins.
My wallet has 0.52390169 BTC and I tried to spend it and got the message "Total exceeds your balance when the .01  BTC tranasaction fee is included" Fair enough so I reduced the spend to 0.51390169 and the get the message "Total exceeds your balance when the .23 BTC tranasaction fee is included"
This doesn't seem right or fair.
How do I calculate what the TOTAL fees are going to be?

There really isn't any way to tell.  The system doesn't know what fees will be needed until it makes an attempt at the knapsack problem of selecting the transactions to redeem.

And yeah, there should maybe be a special case for emptying a wallet, but there isn't.
2055  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Proposal (+ Proof of Concept Software): AES-Encrypted Bitcoin Private Keys on: August 13, 2012, 07:58:11 PM
This looks good to me.  Most of the objections that I had while reading it were dealt with later on.

The KDF is still an issue though.  Best practice would be to just use PBKDF2 and embed the salt for that in the output.  64 bits of salt doesn't fatally lengthen the encrypted key.

If using PBKDF2 with salt as the KDF, AES is overkill.  At that point, considering the random plaintext, XOR would be just as much security.  But AES is cheap in this context, so might as well.
2056  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin network hashrate PetaFLOPS 195.66 vs Worlds supercomp 16.32 petaflops/s on: August 11, 2012, 04:11:59 AM
And we have another noob comparing cpu with gpu, comparing bitcoin mining with things wich require tons of memory and super fast connections between cores...

The next comparison will be "omg a ferrari is better than a tir for hauling things: it goes much faster than the tir!"?
Check that again, the table states figures are a corrected value to give a flops representation of non floating point operations. In terms of hashes per second bitcoin is well ahead of any other system, good luck using that as a benchmark though, I doubt you'll find many takers.

Correction is the root of all evil.

There are three people standing in a line.  Would you weigh them and then use a table to give the "corrected value" of the number of people?  Or would you count them?  Counting is easy, the FLOP count for bitcoin is still zero.  Zero FLOPS, zero FLOPD, zero FLOPY.

If you still insist on "correcting" the value, explain your correction scheme, and justify why you picked it instead of the other options available to you.*  Do you convert by considering how many integer operations it would take to emulate the corresponding floating point operation in the same chip?  Do you look at the idle FPU and calculate how much work it could be doing if it was doing work?

Do you take work distribution and networking into account?  Why or why not?  "Official" FLOPS scores are found by using a brutal test suite that requires an extensive amount of coordination and control, while bitcoin is looking for a magic needle with an army of needle factories, each of which is allowed to run with almost zero coordination.  The bitcoin network is simply not suitable for LINPACK.

Bitcoin is an amazing system, and viewed as a whole, the network uses a staggering amount of computing power.  But all of that power is being applied to a problem that was chosen very carefully to allow the network to exist and function.  We are awesome at what we do, the best in the world by leaps and bounds, and not even the largest HPC clusters can match what we do.  But we can't match what they do either.

* Yes, I am fully aware that no one in this thread is doing the correction.  My point is that the correction is unphysical, even when your source is trying really hard to do it well.
2057  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Theory (Byzantine Generals and Beyond) on: August 11, 2012, 03:30:32 AM
I don't think that bitcoin is going to be very useful, academically speaking.  It really isn't for that.

Bitcoin appears to solve certain well-studied problems in the academic field of distributed computing in a novel way. So I don't think I agree with you here.

There is a reason nobody working on digital currency (academics or otherwise) had been able to come up with a truly robust digital currency (until Bitcoin). The reason is that Bitcoin really does solve some very hard, old problems in novel ways.

What I'm getting at is that there are two ways to consider the word "solved".  Addition was solved in the sense that it could be used in the real world thousands of years ago.  But it wasn't solved in the academic sense until Cantor, Peano, et al. proved that it really did what everyone already knew it did, and that wasn't that much more than a hundred years ago.

Most of bitcoin is architecture and engineering, not science.  People study buildings to understand what works and what doesn't, but a building doesn't "solve" or "prove" anything in the way that you could stick Q.E.D. at the end of it.
2058  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Theory (Byzantine Generals and Beyond) on: August 10, 2012, 08:24:18 PM
I don't think that bitcoin is going to be very useful, academically speaking.  It really isn't for that.

Bitcoin is more like a "good enough" system, one intended to be used in the real world.  It produces approximations to perfection, but never is perfect.

For example, bitcoin doesn't prove, or even attempt to fully prove that a block is final, but as more blocks pile up, we can become increasingly confident that it won't be overruled.  But never totally sure, because every block back to the last checkpoint in theory could be replaced if a better chain is found tomorrow.

By the way, "good enough" isn't a bad thing.  Engineering is the art of understanding tolerances, and of understanding that nothing is absolute, to make things that are "good enough" for the real world.  Bitcoin is an outstanding example of engineering in that sense.
2059  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Mining, a flawed concept coming home to roost? on: August 10, 2012, 08:08:39 PM
if you could control about 10 Thash/s currently you would have voting power and could you not obtain that by gaining control of Deepbit, 50BTC, Ozcoin and BTCGuild?

Let's say you could.  Then what would you do with this voting power?

Well, what I would do is muster a DDOS attack on www.sesamestreet.org, but that's just me.

The more important question is what would a group of professional Russian hackers do? The answer to that is forge a million BTC and use the proceeds to underwrite an expansion of their criminal enterprises.

An even more scary possibility is that the Schumerites would take over the network and deploy armageddon: delete half the coins and quadruple spend the other half, or just transfer everyone's coins randomly between different addresses. Now, THAT would be FUD.

Yeah, except that bitcoin totally doesn't work that way.  Getting 51% of the network lets you prevent or reorder spends.  Not make fake coins.

If you can verify, you can do whatever you want. If you want a million coins just transfer other coins to your own addresses. When the transactions come up for vote, all your machines approve the transactions. If you want to delete coins, transfer them to an invalid address and approve the transactions.

Yeah, except that bitcoin totally doesn't work that way.

Verification doesn't mean what you think it means.  Miners don't approve transactions, they check to make sure that they are valid, cryptographically.  If a miner creates a block with an invalid transaction, the rest of the network will reject that block.  Even if the attacker has 51% or 100% of the hashing power in the network.

A slightly less simple version is that you spend a transaction by proving that you possess the private key that corresponds to the public key embedded in that transaction's output.  You don't prove it to your local miner, you prove it to everyone in the entire universe at the same time.
2060  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Mining, a flawed concept coming home to roost? on: August 10, 2012, 07:01:48 PM
if you could control about 10 Thash/s currently you would have voting power and could you not obtain that by gaining control of Deepbit, 50BTC, Ozcoin and BTCGuild?

Let's say you could.  Then what would you do with this voting power?

Well, what I would do is muster a DDOS attack on www.sesamestreet.org, but that's just me.

The more important question is what would a group of professional Russian hackers do? The answer to that is forge a million BTC and use the proceeds to underwrite an expansion of their criminal enterprises.

An even more scary possibility is that the Schumerites would take over the network and deploy armageddon: delete half the coins and quadruple spend the other half, or just transfer everyone's coins randomly between different addresses. Now, THAT would be FUD.



Yeah, except that bitcoin totally doesn't work that way.  Getting 51% of the network lets you prevent or reorder spends.  Not make fake coins.
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