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2081  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Pro-Trump rioters breach Capitol, forcing lockdown; one person shot... on: January 24, 2021, 10:57:01 AM


I already tried explaining to him what the ACLED was.  Guess I failed.
2082  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 25th Amendment after Trump supporters riot in the Capital on: January 24, 2021, 07:24:23 AM
There is no reason to have 25,000 troops in DC.
The reason was to secure the inauguration.

There was no credible evidence there was going to be violence on any scale (beyond the 'normal' violence we see in Democrat-run cities every day), let alone the scale that would require 25,000 troops to stop the violence.

Yes, there was.  The Capital was attacked 2 weeks earlier, the goal was to stop the winner of the election from becoming president.  The inauguration was their literal last chance.

Some of the people arrested for storming the capital were planning more attacks (like the guy with the horns)
A bunch of different LE agencies said they were aware of multiple plans to attack the inauguration.

An FBI memo for example:
"The FBI received information about an identified armed group intending to travel to Washington, DC on 16 January. They have warned that if Congress attempts to remove POTUS via the 25th Amendment, a huge uprising will occur."

All major social media platforms reported users planning attacks.

let alone the scale that would require 25,000 troops to stop the violence.

The goal isn't to have enough troops to win a battle against domestic terrorists, it's to make the terrorists not even bother trying.  The event running smoothly was a matter of national security.


The US did not have this many troops guarding DC when it was at War, including during the Civil War.
And in 1814 there were only 5,500 American troops.  And they burned down the capital.  (I consider both our statements here irrelevant)

The presence of this many troops has nothing to do with the riots, it is a show of force on the part of Democrats.

It has to do with the threat of another terrorist attack.  And yes, it was a show of force, to discourage anyone from even attempting to try something.   But the troops were requested by the people that are directly responsible for protecting the inauguration - Capital Police, the FBI and Secret Service.  


Look, considering the circumstances "they should have had the inauguration online or something" is a valid argument, "they should've had the inauguration with less security" is just silly.

To see for yourself, all you need to do is ask yourself what your stance would be if it were a Republican being inaugurated under the same circumstances and the Democrats criticizing them for having too many troops protecting the event.
2083  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Joe Biden is President of the United States of America on: January 23, 2021, 10:29:11 PM


 President for a very short time.

What happened to the whole "Trump dissolved the country last Summer and now he's president of the new country" theory?  That was my favorite.
2084  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 25th Amendment after Trump supporters riot in the Capital on: January 23, 2021, 09:43:34 PM
I think the purpose was to prevent any kind of protests against Biden during his inauguration, and obviously, this is concerning.

- two weeks earlier the Capital was attacked, for the first time since the British attacked it, in attempt to stop Biden from becoming president.
- they still haven't caught whoever left the pipe bombs
- there has been tons of online chatter planning similar attacks
- Biden, Harris, Obama, Bush, Clintons, Pelosi - all the main villains of every qanon conspiracy theory all in the same place at the same time

Don't worry, since nothing horrible happened there will be plenty of opportunity for people to protest whatever they want.

None of your points are relevant to the concern that the military presence was meant to stifle American's ability to exercise their first amendment right to protest. The United States is not China. The threat of a few extremists committing violence is not a reason to prevent Americans from voicing their concerns. The Chinese government used the actions of a few violent extremists many years ago to suppress the rights of their citizens, including the right to privacy, and to think freely (the violent extremists have been used as the basis for sending millions of minorities to concentration/reeducation camps).

None of your points are relevant to why there was so much security during inauguration since it wasn't to stifle American's ability to exercise their first amendment right to protest, it was about National Security.  The military is present at every inauguration and SOTU, my points were just explaining why they had the threat level so much higher than previous ones.

Consider what your response would be if this were Trumps inauguration.  Mine would be the same - I don't think yours would though.


2085  Other / Politics & Society / Re: US Capitol Stormers Are Now On No-Fly List And Crying At Airports on: January 22, 2021, 07:56:30 PM
You should take them seriously because they clearly are competent and did their research.  I'm not sure why you are saying otherwise.

They are competent, why exactly?

They said Ahmaud Arbery was out jogging, not that he was 'just out for a jog' (it's not the same thing) citing a NY Times article along with the police report and letter from the Georgia DA. They also said that the shooters suspected him of breaking into homes.

No, they are exactly the same thing. Out for a jog, out jogging, literally synonymous. He was a fleeing criminal, not out jogging. The initial reports were that he was lynched while out for a jog which obviously turned out not to be true so they're reporting the initial info that was wrong. It's like saying school shooter is just going to class, perhaps an evading felon in a police chase is just going for a drive. He wasn't out jogging, he was fleeing after he was caught trespassing and probably stealing.


They cited the Louisville Government press release saying that it wasn't the wrong home.

From your own report that you cited, this is the exact quote:

Quote
Louisville, Kentucky, police raided the wrong home while attempting to serve a warrant and exchanged gunfire with one of the occupants; his partner, Breonna Taylor, a 26-year-old paramedic who was sleeping at the time, was shot and killed by the officers

This is completely 100% false. She was not sleeping, and it was not the wrong home. Taylor's name was on the warrant. Can you please explain to me why you're not getting this? It's like you're refusing to acknowledge they got the facts wrong. It doesn't matter what they cite -- their assertion is wrong.


The semantics arguments are so tedious.  You didn't literally say that but you have been implying it over and over.

You don't want to answer because you don't have a good answer.

I've noticed that you keep ignoring AOC's tweet on "peaceful" protests or that Nancy Pelosi sided with antifa/BLM rioters by calling DHS officers "stormtroopers "for the crime of guarding a federal court house, perhaps no good answer on that?

But set that aside - my argument is this: Democratic politicians and disingenuous liberals completely ignored months of rioting by BLM over a fentanyl junkie that would have died anyways because they were too woke for their own good. Every republican is firm on condemning the capitol riots. Trump condemned it, Ted Cruz condemned it, and not a single elected US Republican (to my knowledge at least) has came out and endorsed those riots. Democrats, on the other hand, would rather play this "mostly" peaceful semantics game to white wash the months of riots, lootings, burning of apartment buildings, assaults of police officer, ect. Instead of recognizing that violence is bad regardless of what the ends are, they continue to normalize it while in the same breath accusing Trump of inciting the capitol riots. Meanwhile, you had Kamala Harris posting a link to the Minnesota freedom fund which was designed to bail out rioters that were charged on riot related offenses. Maybe I'm not getting this, but you explain to me how this is reasonable because I'm all ears.

My argument is basically -- be consistent, like normal people, and be outraged when you see violence regardless of what the cause is. The capitol riots were terrible and it's a bad look for conservatives when a bunch of hillbillies with diabetes storm the capitol. ALSO, it is terrible when BLM riots burn cities for months with democratic politicians turning the blind eye or actively encourage them. Fair enough?

Quick note on Trump and the riots - I think Trump is responsible for raising the temperature and so were Republicans who tried to contest the election results in the house/senate. Could you make the argument that had they not done this, the capitol riots wouldn't have happened? Absolutely -- I would probably agree. But, as soon as the violence struck, Republicans were all pretty much on board that this was terrible and that everyone involved should get the book thrown at them. So why do dems feel the need to be so trepidatious when it comes to BLM rioting? Well, probably has to do with the wokeness that's laced inside the modern democratic platform. Just a guess.  

We've already debated the details of the George Flloyd shooting, no need to go through this all over again.

All I'm trying to say is that it seems like your perception of BLM protests is way off from reality.  Nothing to do with whether or not you agree with the movement, or what politicians have  said about it, or even the specific police shootings.

As I've said before - I know many people who have participated, I've witnessed many of them myself, and what you describe only matches what I see on the media - but not in real life.  Peaceful protests don't make for good ratings or clicks.
Yes, there are crazy, radical, violent people - but there are tons more normal people that are protesting because they genuinely believe they are doing good.  The violence pisses them off a lot more than you think.

And to make sure I'm not falling victim to my own bias or luck, I put genuine effort into trying to change my own views.  My best sources are that study you read the beginning of the introduction to and my personal experiences.  You won't read the data because of the introduction and you there's no reason for you to take my word - that's fine, but I think if you were to decide and try and disprove yourself it won't be too difficult.



2086  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 25th Amendment after Trump supporters riot in the Capital on: January 22, 2021, 05:55:09 PM
I think the purpose was to prevent any kind of protests against Biden during his inauguration, and obviously, this is concerning.

- two weeks earlier the Capital was attacked, for the first time since the British attacked it, in attempt to stop Biden from becoming president.
- they still haven't caught whoever left the pipe bombs
- there has been tons of online chatter planning similar attacks
- Biden, Harris, Obama, Bush, Clintons, Pelosi - all the main villains of every qanon conspiracy theory all in the same place at the same time

Don't worry, since nothing horrible happened there will be plenty of opportunity for people to protest whatever they want.
2087  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Joe Biden is President of the United States of America on: January 22, 2021, 04:35:14 PM
Tzupys actual group chat from inauguration day

2088  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Post your favorite Biden/Harris Memes here on: January 22, 2021, 11:06:12 AM
2089  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The Kracken! on: January 22, 2021, 08:04:34 AM
wow, it's on themarshallreport.wordpress.com, seems legit.  I guess you were right all along Tash.

That's pretty messed up to dissolve the country your president of without telling everyone in July and then campaigning for months for the November election for a country that no longer exists.  Way to waste everyones time Trump.

It's too bad the USA founders didn't put something in the constitution so that there were checks and balances on the President so he couldn't do something like dissolve the whole country and then start a new one so he couldn't lose an election.

Oh well, I guess Trump Steven Miller are the founders of the United States of America.

So will they chant "S - A, S - A, S - A!" at the olympics?  Or "Sah!, Sah!, Sah!'

And do they have a flag yet?  I hope they don't go with anything swastika related, that would make things awkward for the athletes during the olympics.

2090  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The Kracken! on: January 22, 2021, 04:01:29 AM
Soooo.. Whatever happened with that Kracken thing?

New evidence, obtained during the 5th January election in Georgia, required dropping cases, which were based on older evidence.
The cases might be refiled, with the claims based on the newer evidence (foreign interference, fake ballots created in the names of those who didn't vote).

Nope.

None of that is happening, ever.

It never had a chance of happening, not even for one second.

We're witnessing the last death throes of Trumptards still in denial.

I think we're approaching the point where the people who were normal before Trump and then joined the cult are, for the most part, waking up and realizing what happened leaving behind mostly just the people like BADecker that were conspiracy theorists before Trump and will continue to be conspiracy theorists for the rest of their lives.  Hell of a 2016-2020 they had.
2091  Other / Politics & Society / Re: US Capitol Stormers Are Now On No-Fly List And Crying At Airports on: January 21, 2021, 05:43:41 AM
Answer me this -- if someone can be so incompetent to not even do the most basic research into two high profile killings (The ACLED, that is), why in the world would I take anything they have to say seriously?

You should take them seriously because they clearly are competent and did their research.  I'm not sure why you are saying otherwise.

They use citations for everything.  There's probably 100 citations in the introduction alone.  Media reports, police reports, press releases, literally anything that they aren't the source for (like their data) has a citation.  This is literally what it looks like when something is well sourced.

They can regurgitate two falsehoods without even reading in two pages about the Ahmaud Arbery shooting where they falsely claim he was just out for a jog,

They said Ahmaud Arbery was out jogging, not that he was 'just out for a jog' (it's not the same thing) citing a NY Times article along with the police report and letter from the Georgia DA.

They also said that the shooters suspected him of breaking into homes.

and the Breonna Taylor shooting where they falsely claim the police had executed the wrong search warrant.

They cited the Louisville Government press release saying that it wasn't the wrong home.




Why do you keep trying this?



what is your credible source that has demonstrated to you that I am wrong when I say "the vast majority of BLM protests had zero violence".  

You don't have one, do you?  I've looked, genuinely tried to disprove myself, but It's just outrage media that's politically convenient for those who make pwning the libs a priority to believe.
I never said the majority of BLM protests were not peaceful.

The semantics arguments are so tedious.  You didn't literally say that but you have been implying it over and over.

You don't want to answer because you don't have a good answer.
2092  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Joe Biden is President of the United States of America on: January 21, 2021, 03:40:29 AM
White House Hides Biden Inauguration Stream After Massive Downvotes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGuH381Fr6w

Got a tabloid article for you, I know how you love tabloids:

'What happened to the coup?' QAnon and Co in crisis as Biden is sworn in without the violent Trump 'storm' they were expecting to foil handover at the last minute - as one lonesome MAGA fan outside NY State house holds out to the end

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9168995/QAnon-followers-crisis-Joe-Biden-sworn-in.html

2093  Other / Politics & Society / Re: US Capitol Stormers Are Now On No-Fly List And Crying At Airports on: January 21, 2021, 01:38:23 AM
Because it's a terrible take to assign arbitrary percentages

They aren't arbitrary percentages.  The ACLED is transparent in their methodology and explain it in excruciating detail. https://acleddata.com/acleddatanew/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2020/10/ACLED_USAMethodology_2020.pdf

Every different type of event, how they code it, what the definition of 'violence' is, what makes something an 'protest', 'counter protest' or 'riot' or 'demonstration', how the data is collected, what tools they use, all of the raw data itself - all of it is public. 

I've read that data before and immediately assumed it was a left wing think tank.
They aren't a left wing think tank.  It's basically a non profit project that monitors civil rest globally mostly tracking stuff like potential coups in the middle of Africa.  They're transparent about where their funding comes from and what they do, it's very easy to find.

The capitol hill riot was a singular event, BLM riots went on for months unchecked and then legitimized by democratic politicians lmao. As if it could not get worse.

The violent protests resulted in thousands of arrests.  The movement was legitimized by millions of people around the world supporting it. 

Anyway, since the dozens of protests I claim to have witnessed with my own eyes and the data collected by ACLED from 10,000+ protests over the summer are not credible enough for you - what is your credible source that has demonstrated to you that I am wrong when I say "the vast majority of BLM protests had zero violence". 

You don't have one, do you?  I've looked, genuinely tried to disprove myself, but It's just outrage media that's politically convenient for those who make pwning the libs a priority to believe.  There's definitely violence, and it's a serious issue, but it's painfully obvious that by far, the vast majority of BLM protests have been peaceful - as in not a single punch, broken window, nothing.



2094  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 51% of Americans approve of Trump! on: January 20, 2021, 10:30:07 PM
despite what you may read in right wing media - they're just trying to get you fired up (and it seems to be working).

Ladies and gentleman of the forum, refer hereby to what I said previously about liberals’ attempts to rationalize me away.

In fact, as a perspicacious observer with no political party attachments, I myself independently reached my above-quoted conclusion.  I actually have not seen anyone else saying what I said; I am the first and only, to the best of my knowledge.  If anyone else said the same thing, I must have missed it.  But no—that cannot be!—it is impossible!  I must be regurgitating agitprop from some mysterious dark force, vaguely identified as “right-wing media”.

Just remember that I am the same nullius whose cultural and political forum oeuvre more usually consists of neoclassical nude statues of Phryne, Nietzschean condemnations of Christianity, rage against American world-police invasions of countries that are not America, and anti-feminist tirades that squarely blame men for inventing feminism.  (Because I know history.  Feminism is men’s fault, and men need to take responsibility for that.)  Surely, I am one to parrot whatever the “right-wing media” (!) brainwashed me to say.  Roll Eyes

I might have believed you a couple months ago.  But now I think that you were trying to appear as if you had no preference at all who won the election when in reality you very much wanted Trump to win.  

But it seems like you basically stopped trying.  A few weeks ago you started getting sloppy, repeating right wing media talking points basically word for wor and framing everything as if the Liberals are evil and Conservatives the victims.  And recently you've just been openly pushing right wing debunked conspiracy theories as if they were settled fact.  Pretty sure you're a Trump supporter and you've been one all along.  I've noticed similar transformations in OgNasty and Mindtrust since the election happened.  Trump really attracts the angry internet trolls.



2095  Other / Politics & Society / Re: How will Trump leave the White House? on: January 20, 2021, 06:58:48 PM
Gold




Joe there is a price to collect, will you dare entering, or do a runner and retire on a Chinese beach?

No need to leave, Joe Biden cancelled inaugural parade.

Quote
How will Trump leave the White House?
He wont no reason to leave, trust blockchain tech.

He can not step down until this election is legally settled fair and square.

Is this sufficient security for a little ceremony?

Who will be brave enough to enter?


gold
2096  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Trump Pardons on: January 20, 2021, 05:34:21 PM

"We're gonna build the wall and Mexico is gonna pay for it!"

"They'll pay for it later!"

"The military will pay for it!"

"You will pay for it"

"My Chief Strategist will run a charity scam to build the wall, keep your money and then I'll pardon him!"
2097  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 51% of Americans approve of Trump! on: January 20, 2021, 05:14:20 PM
Newsflash:  As of 20 January 2021, Rasmussen Reports has Trump at 51% approval.  Although their index of his approval is still negative, they measure him as having the approval of a majority of Americans, with approval now (barely) exceeding disapproval by a statistically significant amount.

I observe that as the Biden inauguration has approached, Trump’s numbers have slowly increased by a statistically significant amount.
You seem to be only considering the single poll from Rasmussen.  Look at all their previous polls: https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/trump_approval_index_history

Also you should consider many pollsters instead of just one.  Here are the results of nearly every poll since he's been elected (although it doesn't include the ones that just came out today):



And how he compares to previous Presidents:

2098  Other / Politics & Society / Re: How will Trump leave the White House? on: January 20, 2021, 03:59:54 PM
Trump will leave the White House. Joe Biden's campaign manager was insinuating that he would need to physically remove Trump earlier is pure partisan bullshit. He said something alone the lines of "The WH has the power to remove trespassers". Give it a break.

I would have said the same thing a couple of months ago. But now seeing how desperately Trump is trying the create a narrative of election fraud when there is none, I wouldn't be surprised if he calls on his supporters to create a "CHAZ" (WHAZ?) around the White House to defend him.

suchmoon was not far off
2099  Other / Politics & Society / Re: US Capitol Stormers Are Now On No-Fly List And Crying At Airports on: January 20, 2021, 03:18:09 PM
I'm surprised they were so focused on the Trump supporters considering they have just a tad bit of work to do in regards to tightening up their security protocol.

These were the people that literally stormed the Capital during a joint session of congress the day before.  Killed a cop, attacked journalists, broke into and stole from Congress members offices and desks on the floor, chanted 'hang Mike Pence', brought a noose, built a gallows, etc...

Pfft, amateur numbers. Try 5 dead cops by a BLM radical in 2016 in the span of an hour or over 30 dead during summer BLM riots. But don't worry, that was legitimized by democrats so terrorism only works one way. I'm not saying the rioters didn't deserve it. The TSA is useless posturing. If you told me what the chance was of a capitol rioter blowing up a plane was, anything other than zero would be shocking. TSA doesn't exist to protect anyone, just as a deterrent. Probably put them on a no fly-list so they wouldn't flee perhaps. Or, they could be a security risk. Who knows, that wasn't my main point.


It was legitimized by the literally millions of peaceful protesters around the world.  Trying to lump the 95% of BLM protests that had no violence at all with the 5% that did is as irrational as trying to say that Trump rallies from 2016-2020 were all about violence, hanging Mike Pence and overthrowing the government.  So why do you keep doing it?



2100  Other / Politics & Society / Re: How will Trump leave the White House? on: January 20, 2021, 11:31:35 AM
Trump blew the deficient, but the only silver lining is the economic growth. You can raise taxes, cut spending, or grow the economy to counteract the debt. Raising taxes can kill jobs so not the best approach, and Trump obviously didn't cut spending, but he did grow the economy at a reasonable rate.

We're lucky that he inherited a stable economy and didn't run it into the ground. The economy by most metrics (GDP, employment, etc) was growing at roughly the same pace from 2010 through 2019. It didn't need tax cuts. It needed a budget surplus and room to cut interest rates for dealing with the next crisis. Instead he started a trade war he couldn't win.


And here's the official final score of the stock market he never stopped bragging about:

(Dow Jones)
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