Sorry about that people! We had a DoS against one of MoneyPot's website features which didn't handle the load well and unfortunately was on the same physical box as the API server which briefly took it down for a while. I've flipped that over to a different host, and things are dandy so far =)  Looks like I still have a lot of work to do on our infrastructure side of things, sorry about any inconveniences. I'm also going to put a bit more effort into isolating services, so we don't see one outage bring everything down like that. Next week I'll be focusing heavily on security and reliability of MP

Glad you like it, we've been trying to make it as useful as possible for that. However as always, keep more than day-to-day spending coins offline and we're still not at the level of stability where we can promise 100% uptime. But glad you liking our wallet features



The loss is 100% covered by investors. If players at that casino had made lost, the investors would've won. But from the casinos point of view, they make the exact same amount of money regardless of player win/loss. (Actually, it's probably better for them if players win! That way they're more likely to come back)

Good idea, we'll have a setting for this. Maybe even to disable the chart all-together (and replace it with text) for people who are primarily just chatting

I've embedded a muut forum into moneypot:   https://www.moneypot.com/forum mainly as a place for developers to post questions and have some developer discussions. But feel free to post any general stuff there as well

Nah, it's probably trying to condition you into getting thrills from losing ;d

Love what you've done, some really great ideas there. I especially like the leaderboard breakup.

Hope you guys do really well! Let me know if there's ever anything I can help with

If you're asking for help, it probably would help if you tell us the report details, otherwise we're flying blind  =)

If the report is along the lines of: "Hey, your entropy is bad. I can "feel" it." just ignore them, I get them on a weekly basis. People mean well, and often do believe they can predict the outcome but unless your sole source of entropy is a 301 page on random.org, it's basically impossible for a human regardless how weak it is.


I plugged your red pay-table into the MoneyPot plinko API to generate this bet:
https://www.moneypot.com/bets/4244628

As you can see, it shows a house edge of 1.76% with the chance of landing on 130x to be 1 in 2048 (and even more often, if you consider 130 or greater!). Which makes it rare, but not exceedingly so.

Not to say your site doesn't have security holes, but be extremely careful in your analysis of "1 of 25000" to not fall into the trap of implicitly searching for thousands of possible patterns that would trigger your "omg" alarms. It's a weekly occurrence that someone brings up a really unusual streak on bustabit, like   1.23x followed by 4.56x followed by 7.89x and then claim the game is clearly rigged as that particular occurrence has a one in a billion chance of happening, but they're searching for a billion patterns over that time.

For what it's worth, I know the feeling of losing money and dealing with the uncertainty if it was real or legitimate, it's really the whole reason I created MoneyPot. The hardest was once paying a 90 BTC loss in one single day, without knowing if I got cheated or not. Both players that won that day never came, but the site has remained profitable ever since so I'm pretty sure it was the bitch named variance  =)

(and Dooglus has a similar story but on a far, far more epic scale)

 
If you're worried, I'd highly recommend paying for a professional security review. I saw earlier you had a max win of almost 50 BTC. Doing a rough estimate, my maths tells me you should have roughly a 2778 BTC bankroll to safely back that up, that's a non-trivial amount of money. (I can figure out the exact required according to the generalized kelly if you like)

Due to popular demand, we have added a color switcher:

https://www.bustabit.com/play-new

We're defaulting to white, with the option of going black to help ease the transition. Any more feedback? If there's no complaints in the next few days we will start default to  /play-new

That's right, there's no permission required to create MoneyPot app (which is kind of the beauty of it). Just hit "Create an app" in the footer, and you're free to use our API!  I wasn't aware of MiniDice until today =)

If you authorize the site, it will appear in your "Apps" table, but unless you do that it will be hidden (so it's up to apps to individually promote themselves). If the app does do something really unique or special or a lot of fun, I'd be more than happy to feature them (like DustDice and BetterBets). There's a few up-and-coming apps which are looking great, so we'll definitely see that list expand.



Thanks, that means a lot. I hope your investment does well. Just remember, if you're not ok with losing the money, you're definitely investing too much. I don't mean to scare anyone, but it really is a very high-risk investment.  =)

Hey, I just verified the domain. The point of the verification, is to make sure they own the domain (e.g. I don't want people pretending to be an existing site) rather than I'm partnered with them in any way.


But the actual MoneyPot system itself is completely open (Even if I don't verify the domain), anyone is allowed to use it. It's up to you, as the user if you want to authorize the app and how much money you want to deposit into it. That's why all apps have a balance, they can only use that money as opposed to using your actual MoneyPot balance (or investment).

Perhaps I should create a better splash screen which says exactly what apps can and can not do. But basically they can:

* Bet with ONLY the money you give them
* See your username
* See how much money they can spend
* See a deposit address, that is specifically tied to their app


So as you can see, it's more or less perfectly safe to play at even the most evil casino as long as you only authorize them with a little amount of money. That said, I'm regularly keeping an eye out on the behavior of casinos using our API, and will not put up with any that have untowards behavior.


Also as an investor, you'll be glad to know all bets are verified to make sure they are +EV and less than the kelly criterion, so you too are protected against bad actors.

Yeah, agree. Ideally we'd take continual snapshots of all figures for the purpose of charting and showing incremental losses/profits/wagered. However at the moment, we have a backlog of over 50 issues and API feature requests, that purely due to time constraints it has to be pushed back a bit. It's a good idea however to do what arallmuus just did, and record your own snapshot and see the progress from there =)

Once we get around to it, we'll definitely do it though and backfill it with the data we already store.

Thanks for the suggestions, we're working as fast as we can while maintaining the security and reliability of the site.

You brought up my site with incorrect information, I just wanted to set the record straight. =)

Again, the private investors never transferred a satoshi. It was just a gentleman's agreement, before my time, to share the profits and/or losses. The investors had no solvency concerns, as the money never left their wallets.


Sounds like a good idea, as it's getting a bit off topic here =)

I think you are intentionally misframing the debate. As a casino owner, I routinely recommend competitors and I have absolutely zero hostility any of them, in fact, I've even helped a number of them set up clones of bustabit using our source code. And just today today I was talking on chat about how much I like playing luckyb.it, I think PrimeDice is one of the most trustworthy sites out there, etc. I've told a number of investors that from a pure maths point of view, PRC and bitdice.me are strictly better investments than MP (due to higher bankroll turnover). I think JD has the best site operator out there, period . etc.

And yes, I'm concerned about DaDice's solvency and would not recommend anyone to play there until they sort it out. Feel free to deride me for being a jealous competitor, but we both know that's nonsense.



We already covered this. The private investors transferred zero coins, they only agreed to pay if the site took a loss and be paid if the site made money. The site made money, they got paid. End of story. What do you want, proof of 0 coins?

Well, the client-seed should be changed each roll to something random either manually (which is crazy tedious) or by a client you trust/verify (ideally a browser plugin, or third-party)

But even with the same client seed it's really not as easy for an operator to cheat, as you'd imagine. That's because the nash for a casino is to not cheat, because if someone knew you were cheating they could do the opposite bet, and *destroy* you. I don't imagine many site operators would be insane enough to cheat this way.

(Although, no sites ever sign an indisputable proof of hashes so any provably fair disputes quickly degrades into a he-said-she-said fight)

So its really just best if the client uses a different random seed each bet to avoid any doubts.

I personally think the simplicity of verification is one of the most important properties of any provably fair scheme. And generally, I think that actually means not using a nonce. I'd rather just audit them by verify a few big bets, than trying to keep a big history history of my bets and follow a convoluted scheme. By far preferable to this, would be userscript that does it for me, in real time.

Even with nonce schemes, which do make it easy to generate a list of bet outcomes (which is of limited use, if you don't keep track of your bet amounts/direction/target) it's amazing how few people actually do verify bets. Some very successful sites have operated for months (accidentally) not being provably fair before anyone even noticed. Or just last week, I spent about ~30 minutes writing a verifier for 64blocks and gave up due to the complexity (e.g. every new game, scrape 64 bitcoin blocks(?!) and verify a complex chain that works both forward and backwards). I have no doubt that's completely fair, with nice properties but when even I, the person who implemented the original scheme it's based on (in bustabit) (which was originally largely Dooglus/Eric's idea) can't be bothered to finish writing the code it's unlikely many people in the world have.

That said, I do think these guys should just go with a nonce scheme unless they're going to build an easy to check browser plugin that set a random client seed, and verifies each bet

Some big bets today on DustDice, if you're one of the lucky MP investors you'll have got your share of around 10 BTC =)

NLNico is spot on. One extra benefit of going nonceless is that it is hugely easier to verify each bet with a script (or verify the script) as there's no history (bet direction, bet size, result) to accumulate, you can just on-demand verify each bet.

Or if you're planning on releasing something like a userscript or a browser plugin that automatically verifies bets, I'd definitely go nonceless (it can check immediately, as you play). Or if you're expecting people to verify batches themselves by hand, I'd go with a JD-style nonce.

That's basically right. From an app-developers perspective, it matters not if the gambler wins or loses: They make exactly the same. However the investors still need a cut (otherwise they wouldn't invest). So it's the 50% split is of what remains after paying the investor enough.


MoneyPot.com pays for that in its entirety.

Yeah, that should be pretty easy with the custom API, basically you just get the total amount of outcomes 2^32, and divide it into 6 equal ranges (say of: 715827882). So if the outcome is between  [0, 715827883) ... horse 1 wins. If the outcome is between [715827883, 1431655764), horse number 2 wins etc. That would be the payouts you send to us. Also you can then use the provably fair outcome we give you as some sort of seed to do your animation, which gives that final result.


Hope that's clear

We've been working hard on a new theme, what do you guys think?
 https://www.bustabit.com/play-new

Next we'll add some stars as background, and the ability to toggle to a white theme