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2501  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: [LTC] Adding new 7950 to cgminer or GUIMiner-scrypt on: April 13, 2013, 06:39:51 PM
Silly questions but have you tried to reseat the card and really push those PCIe connectors in.  Obviously Windows doesn't see the card.  If those PCIe connectors aren't snapped in all the way the card may still have the fans spin but it may not be detected or will have an exclamation point in device manager.
2502  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Hashrate and BFL on: April 13, 2013, 10:53:45 AM
They said they would use a testnet to test and not mine with them

Having said that, they would probably use Inaba's pool if they were going to mine.
2503  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-12 Roger Ver Rocks on FoxBusiness!! on: April 13, 2013, 09:45:01 AM
"Don't confuse it with a real monetary system because it's not"

So my dad, who recently retired, should be supporting a real monetary system like the USD?  So he can watch the last 40+ years of his savings become worthless in 5 years?

I'm sorry Professor, you really have spent too much time with Gilligan.

Hope the Professor doesn't piss off the wrong haxxors - eh nevermind, those big banks are to big to fail...
2504  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Advice on first rig build on: April 13, 2013, 09:14:55 AM
Very nice for somebody who has never built a rig.

The PSU should be able to handle 4 7970s doing BTC no problem, especially if you downclock the RAM to save power & Heat.  LTC on the other hand uses high memory clocks and a moderate core overclock, so 1300 should handle it, but don't CPU Mine.

I would suggest getting powered riser/extender so you're not pulling so much power through the motherboard.  The cards will pull 12v current up to 75W I believe through each PCIe slot, so you should add 1 or 2 powered risers to be safe.

Haven't tried Win 8 for mining so I can't comment.  Win 7 works perfectly fine for me.
2505  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Best OS for mining? on: April 13, 2013, 08:48:20 AM
I have run and got top hashing rates on Windows.  Just disable/remove all the bloatware that Windows comes with. Disable/stop all services/apps you don't need and you'll be ok.

there is no way you can get windows to run as fast as my centos box, simply no way.  xorg uses 99.7% of the power of my machine with only .299999% being used to support ALL other programs. and it's stable and can run for many months without any need to touch it.  could probably run years.

You and that Centos 5.....  Ignorance is bliss huh?

I have a MSI 890FXA-GD70 that ran for over 1 year without rebooting in Win 7 x64.  Only reason I shut it down was to clean the fans and switch to Stratum with the newer CGMiner (11/12).  Since switching to the newer stratum I left it on the original CGMiner from back in November - so that's another 6 months without even stopping CGMiner.  I'm making 1245 MH/s with 4 6870s on a 620W PSU.

I'm sure many Gentoo/Ubuntu/BAMT users have similar stories.  No need to make crap up... you don't get gold stars or cookies for it.
2506  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Hi - Please help my friend in getting back his 30,000 bitcoins! on: April 13, 2013, 08:32:04 AM
Yeah the soap thing is more important than 30k BTC
2507  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [25000 GH] BTC Guild - PPS/PPLNS with TxFees, Stratum+Vardiff ASIC Tested on: April 13, 2013, 08:11:33 AM
Yes know about your "little project".  Actually I sat there staring at the forecast 2 weeks ago with a caculator and 2 excel sheets open calculating thing - felt like I was back in my stats class  Cheesy

Perhaps I should heed Meni's advice and split the babies up.  I was hoping my ASICs would be here by now and I could have moved onto enjoying my life and not constantly checking GPU temps  Grin
2508  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: I think BFL deserves a bit more benefit of the doubt on: April 13, 2013, 07:51:44 AM

It's clear from your rebuttal that no amount of proof will get you to change your opinion.  I might have agreed with you 4 months ago (look at my posts).  The stuff coming directly from them makes me think otherwise now.

I bolded the single point I thought was the most egregious, contentious part I found in your argument.  Over-promising is saying like UPS saying your package will get there Tuesday, but i gets there Wednesday in your case.  Willful deceit would be like UPS advertising 3 day service and delivering every single package 9 days laters for every single customer.

And if you think nobody lost money on this then there is no point for anybody else posting anything else here since you have your head.... in the sand.  The forums are full of stories of people who have changed their lifestyle and behavior to invest in what they think is the future.  Perhaps you should read more.

I can appreciate what your saying. It would most certainly be possible to change my opinion and don't mean to be hard headed, but I feel like I have a valid point and am waiting for just 1 person to agree with me.  I guess I'm all alone.

In your analogy you give the UPS example of delivering your package a day later vs being triple the time frame due to false advertising.   However, if in that case, if UPS offered every customer a refund who was not happy with the service of having to wait so long to get the package in exchange for not delivering the package and returning it to its point of origin, would this still be considered willful deceit since they therefore didn't profit by the false advertising?

Also a few other things that come to mind regarding the lifestyle changers you mentioned,
 
1) Aren't those customers who don't ask for refunds validating that they believe BFL will deliver and actually choose to live with the delay?
2) Couldn't the case be made that its a risky proposition to make lifestyle changing decisions based on a get rich quick scheme that is marketed specifically as a pre-order?

Now things that would change my mind would be something of the order of,

1) not having the option to get a refund if requested upon going over the stated time frame
2) not having an option to get a refund if the agreed to quality was not delivered
3) the company folding up shop and disappearing with the money before product was delivered.
4) not having the option to get a refund if they are not being responsive to customer inquires in a timely manner

Thats about all I can think of.  

So far, I cant honestly say that any of those criteria have been met.  Therefore the worst I can say about them in good conscience is that they have over promised people in the past.  While I think this is not a good business practice, and is ultimately self defeating, I see no better option for fulfilling my desire to have a mining machine based on ASIC technology in the immediate future.  

Either one of two things will happen, because they cant honestly delay shipping those things much longer before having a mass exodus.  1) The will start shipping and I'll have been correct.  or 2) They will disappear with everyone's money and I'll have been 100% wrong.  

Considering this is their 2nd round of mining machines, i simply find it highly unlikely they would be scammers.  If so, this is the longest most elaborate scam since Enron.  


How can you own a business and not know the legalities of fraud?  I had to take a medical ethics course in med school so of course lawyers taught us all the legal mumbo jumbo like fiduciary trust.  Going back to the UPS example.  If a company willfully represents as shipping in 3 days and can be shown in court to ship consistently at 9 days (ie excluding acts of God) then that company will be charged with fraud irrespective of refunds.  If a gas station owner only gives you 9 gallons but you pay for 10, and he does this for everybody, he will be charged with fraud even if he offered a refund to anybody who complained.  Judges are reasonable and will not penalize businesses that have things happen out of their hands.  Numerically, how many times has the shipping estimated been pushed back?  Probably well over 25 times.  Come on even Diablo 3 wasn't like that.

I have a medical license and I worked 1/2 way through my realtor's license and CA is the toughest state to get any kind of license.  If BFL was based it CA it would have been shut down by now or at least be under investigation.

I honestly want the company to succeed.  I want their product (as much as other make fun and say it will burn down your house).  Even Yifu wants BFL to get their stuff out.  I don't like being lied to.  Had they been honest and not said shipping next week back last October I would have bought the BTC I spent to buy the Single at that time (even if it had gone up from $6 to $10 $800 is nothing for me).  I calculated I would get my BTC back into my wallet quickly.  6 months late and all I get is a voucher for stuff that got inflate in price?  Um, I want my lost coins.  I don't care if BTC is $2 or $200, I wanted more BTC in my wallet and I don't have it.
2509  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: The irony on: April 13, 2013, 07:09:17 AM
Yeah but 80% of the crazy crap was invented in the US last century.  We just have bad follow through cuz we're lazy.  Leave it to a Japanese guy  Cheesy
2510  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [25000 GH] BTC Guild - PPS/PPLNS with TxFees, Stratum+Vardiff ASIC Tested on: April 13, 2013, 07:07:35 AM
Actually OOC would you be able to put up graph of BTCGuild PPLNS luck for the past week if you have access to the info.  I'm curious.
2511  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [CLOSED] MtRed (PPS, LP+, API, 0 FEE) STRATUM on mine.mtred.com:3333 on: April 13, 2013, 07:06:27 AM
So again, my apologies for jumping the gun with erroneous data. 
I rarely see such good humoured apologies on this forum, it's nice to see.

I generally don't make those kinds of mistakes, but, it happens.

Thanks organofcorti for finding the error!

-wk

I on the other hand always make these sorts of mistakes, which is why I'm good at finding them Wink

Now kiss and make up.
2512  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [25000 GH] BTC Guild - PPS/PPLNS with TxFees, Stratum+Vardiff ASIC Tested on: April 13, 2013, 07:05:23 AM
Horrible luck today.  50BTC has as many blocks in the last 6 hours with only 40% of the hashrate.  Even Bitminter is close as far as blocks found.  I need to be banned from luck based mining.  This is why I don't join lotto pools - I would screw my friends over.

Maybe eleuthria could pay you to mine elsewhere? Wink

It's not the first time I posted the possibility of that.  I mean I know I'm being a narcisist to think I can control the mining world but I plotted out the data in an excel file and it was disturbing how close to 1 the r factor was.  I jump on a PPLNS or DGM pool and they go from positive luck to negative.  I even posted a pic I think showing BTC Guild finding 30 blocks a round and the round I join with just 1 round before closing it only has 1 block lol.

I'll shut up now before I get death threats.

But I will entertain offers from pool ops to sabotage other pools (I did it to Bitminter last week for that 37 million block).  Yes, I went to Bitminter for the first time, pointed all my rigs and got essentially nothing for 8 hours of 22GH mining on a 37 million share block.
2513  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: ASIC mining - would it worth to jump in? on: April 13, 2013, 06:56:43 AM
Are there any existing ASIC devices available those are ready for shipping and are verified to generate profit?

Sadly, at this time, no.  Hence all the squabbling.
2514  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: BUying 7970's Which do you recommend... why? on: April 13, 2013, 06:49:13 AM
I guess I haven't checked the other warranties, but Diamond is 1 year - had a 6990 die completely on me, and they bounced RMA coverage for it.  We're not talking dead fan here due to abuse - just died one day.

I guess I hadn't really looked into detail on these - figured all reference boards had the same warranty, like everything used to!


Are you in the US?  My retail Diamond 7970 says 5 years and I registered it on day 2.  Of course what the box says and real world are 2 separate things, but I am just 10 miles from their CA headquarters and can raise hell Tongue
2515  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: i bought 6pcs 5870s for $50 on: April 13, 2013, 06:46:02 AM
You would probably be better off making 2 3 card rigs.  Yes there is more cost for the base systems, but heat management will be easier, and you can get 2 600 PSUs for less than the 1200W PSU.  The ability to spread the heat out by keeping 2 rigs apart is key, unless you live in a cold area.  6 5870s will let you cook eggs Tongue
2516  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad of an idea is this? on: April 13, 2013, 06:40:58 AM
You can almost double your profits by spending 300 on a 7950 (~600 kh/s) instead of 160 on a 7850 (~320).  You'd also have a card that will be easier to sell back in the future (IMO) as the 7950 is a much superior video card.  The 7850 w/o crossfire is already struggling on some of the newer PC games.

I might do that. I just have to wait a bit longer to get enough. I'm still using my trusty old 560ti for games Smiley

So you think the other parts are fine? Will I need more RAM? RAM is cheap as chips, so I don't mind that.

The PSU in the link you provided is crap.  Look at the 12V ratings.  First it is split into 2 12v rails. 2nd, each rail provides only 20Amps.  Unless you're a pro always try to get a single rail PSU.  My Antec Neo Eco 520W PSUs put out more 12V power than that crappy 600W.

If you don't absolutely need the case, I would say just build an open system (assuming no kids or pets).  You can have it mine on top of a cardboard box no problem.  Spend the $60 on a good PSU.  A quality 600W PSU would be able to power 2 7950s no problem.  This crappy one might even choke after 3 months of 24/7 just running one 7950.  I guarantee it will not be quiet or efficient.  Plus it would have crappy ripple leading to instability in overclock.  Bottom line the PSU is the most important part, more than the card.

2nd, the mobo/cpu is fine, only problem is 1GB of DDR.  You would need to to run Win 7 x64.  So either run 32 bit or go to Win XP or Linux.
2517  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [25000 GH] BTC Guild - PPS/PPLNS with TxFees, Stratum+Vardiff ASIC Tested on: April 13, 2013, 06:29:41 AM
Horrible luck today.  50BTC has as many blocks in the last 6 hours with only 40% of the hashrate.  Even Bitminter is close as far as blocks found.  I need to be banned from luck based mining.  This is why I don't join lotto pools - I would screw my friends over.
2518  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: I think BFL deserves a bit more benefit of the doubt on: April 13, 2013, 06:24:04 AM

So, observation A: the OP has little to no clue about engineering or electronics, yet is trying to make a decision based on his expertise in these areas. Doomed to fail. Avalon is the working version, so by definition it is better designed than BFL.

observation B: Avalon didn't spend any money marketing because their product sells itself. BFL has no product and they are selling investments in BFL, so their brochures have to be very shiny to pull in the dough. Pictures of products that do not exist, promises of riches, and sowing the fear that people will miss out if the don't invest now.

Looks like BFL snared another investor.

a) If your saying I have no clue about engineering or electronics, that would be an incorrect assumption.  My earlier statement said that I had not heard of Butterflylabs, not that I had not heard of asics.  I'm not claiming to be an expert, however, I do understand the process generally speaking, have some general knowledge in logic circuits, and programming.  I also understand the process of designing and manufacturing circuit boards from a high level perspective.  I understand that asics are basically the end of the road when it comes to mining and that no better technology currently exists to preform the calculations in a better,faster,cheaper way then an asic. 

b) It is a fallacy to claim that just because someone put a bit of time on their marketing that their product doesn't exist.

So we are back to my original statement, was this over promised? Yes, it is clear that either by under-experienced mis-judgement, in the actual complexities and overall timeline, of producing and putting together such a complex product from the ground up (the more likely scenario in my mind) or by willful misinformation(hard to believe), this product was promised and not delivered according to the timeframe that was understood by all parties who were very early "investors" as you would like to call them.  Yes, I get it.  That will be enough to piss anyone off to the point of OP claiming they will "burn in hell" for the wrongs they have inflicted on society. 

And the point I have been trying to make is that, while yes, this is not good business practice to over promise, it doesn't merit the level of negativity that I'm reading a lot of the haters spewing out.  Thus far, no one has lost any actual money, other then forgone profits of being first to market.  However, I still maintain that if your buying a mining rig solely for the purpose of getting that one or two month advantage over everyone else, then you need to re-evaluate your strategy, as mining isn't a short term venture.  It is a long term game. 

I have done the math, and even if the difficulty goes up to over 300M which i think is unlikely, and the btc price crashes to under $50, you will still be able to make 100% money back in less then 12 months. 

So I say, being first to market really doesn't matter as much as most people think it does.  Yes, you will not make $5,000 / day, become the next bitcoin millionare and retire at 35 but that is honestly pure delusion that anyone would think that that kind of a return should be expected in the first place. 


It's clear from your rebuttal that no amount of proof will get you to change your opinion.  I might have agreed with you 4 months ago (look at my posts).  The stuff coming directly from them makes me think otherwise now.

I bolded the single point I thought was the most egregious, contentious part I found in your argument.  Over-promising is saying like UPS saying your package will get there Tuesday, but i gets there Wednesday in your case.  Willful deceit would be like UPS advertising 3 day service and delivering every single package 9 days laters for every single customer.

And if you think nobody lost money on this then there is no point for anybody else posting anything else here since you have your head.... in the sand.  The forums are full of stories of people who have changed their lifestyle and behavior to invest in what they think is the future.  Perhaps you should read more.
2519  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: The irony on: April 13, 2013, 06:11:11 AM
Are you referring to the Federal Reserve?
2520  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The proudhon song (bitcoin is a bubble) on: April 13, 2013, 02:47:24 AM
Very nice, you were right (sort of).
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