BEHWHFbjrfa1NefCvNEKF1vXYaxRMiEAQu

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yes, you have... send me 1 bay from an address who have at least 2kk bay on it, and I'll send you 50k bay back.

Nobody will hire you with no feedback on Odesk. That's my point. Nobody will buy from you on ebay with low feedback. Etc.

"See..what you don't understand is that if I have the money. Why would I look for job? or if I have $600 why would I buy something that costs $300? It makes more sense to just visit Ebay or other store and buy one that costs $500 instead of throwing double money in escrow."

You are really stupid just by writing this. As a freelancer you are making YOUR money by doing various jobs for employers. Gosh.

BTW, the main reason people buy something on Ebay is because it's cheaper, not because they don't have money. Are you stupid? How the fuck can you say that somebody is buying things on ebay because they don't have money to buy at higher price?

Are you that type? "Mneah, I'm not going to buy this cheap cell phone because I afford to pay twice the price for the same phone in the same condition somewhere else"

Just to rap up the last 2 pages,

Person A wants to buy an expensive donkey at 3000 but they do not have 6000 for the dd, pretty simple stuff they do not have enough to make the purchase lol

Now person A wants to buy something they can actually afford lets say a donkey fart for 50, now she has enough for the fart and pays 100 total which 50 will return on a successful trade,  if it is their first deals.

All goes well with the deal for person A and she continues to buy what she can infact afford!!! 10 deals laters she wants to buy her 3000 donkey but because A  has been a good girl she now only needs (3500ish) total because she is slightly trusted further down the road after x amount of completed deals, person A WILL BECOME TRUSTED because she was trust worthy.

(A market built on trust as described)

Few deals more person A would not need to deposit hardly anything i hope that is  easy to understand

You are quite correct... it's possible to have no deposit, or 10X deposit for that matter - or once timelocks are implemented to have payments occur on a pre-defined schedule.  So for example, if you are an unknown seller with an unknown reputation - it's quite possible that you would have to do a full double-deposit escrow contract to attract buyers given your lack of reputation... in time you wouldn't need that.  

With smart contracts it should be possible to also have a 'normal' escrow account as well (provided said party was trusted by both individuals) with a multisig account defined.  If either party fails to accept, but the pre-determined arbiter does accept both sides... then the contract is fulfilled and the deposits returned.  As far as payment for services, etc. it would be easy to simply set up something where until cancelled by either party a specific amount is paid out per week... up to the maximum.  If escrow is not involved and payment is one-way, then the remaining funds would be returned (at least as I understand the Halo whitepapers... I admit that I haven't actually attempted to code such a contract myself).

As with everything, it's just meaningless conjecture on all sides until we have the tools in our hands and can start trying out different options and providing feedback to David and the rest of the team as far as options/improvements that are necessary for our various prospective uses.  It's quite easy to imagine that the purposes for which I am excited about using this marketplace are different from someone else's... it's also possible that once we've gotten more familiar with the interface and options - we'll have even more ideas for application which are currently unimaginable.

On the contrary, you are wrong...

For example as an employer on a freelancing marketplace, I don't give a shit about your skills as a freelancer with no good feedback. I'm looking for somebody who is TRUSTING his skill and is dedicated to finish the work in time and deliver as advertised.

For example as a seller, I won't sell you shit if you don't have a proper feedback and you are willing to pay trough paypal. I won't take that chargeback chance.

For example as a buyer, I will pay an escrow fee just be sure that your cell phone is working as advertised. That won't be a problem.


You are WRONG. You are looking from a "scammer" perspective. "Is he willing to do that? Ofc not if he's not a honest person"
I get it, there are sellers and buyer who can't afford escrow service. So what? Does that make the service "good for nothing"? That's plain STUPID!!!!


Stop looking from that perspective, and be creative. On top of that, stop thinking short time. "Look, the volatility...." Gosh...

@qawzsx : Why I'm here ? Probably because i own some BitBays, followed the project because i found the concept interesting, now I'm kind of genuinely concerned about the business model of the Decentralized MarketPlace and how the Escrow System works because it will be the backbone of the system.

Personnaly i think the adoption and wide use of the coin is essential to its developement.

And we haven't even talked about volatility of BitBay and this problem combined with the escrow time regarding Vendor and Buyer...

Be realistic, let's take the example of Alibaba, it is a system that allow Vendors to minimize their investment in sales structure, maximize their visibility and cut through intermediaries in exchange of Alibaba fees.

I doubt a lot of Vendors of Alibaba would switch to a system that require provision of everything sold at the level of sales, meaning a Vendor has to escrow also his benefices and his shipping costs and he is not guaranteed fully to get money in the end.

In case of a problem with the buyer, which is not able to free the escrow for some reasons, technical, personal or any reason possible the Vendor lost everything...Transactions are also about security and reliability of payment, I am not sure we can call an escrow something that implies a risk of loosing the money if something happen to the buyer.

Anyway, you have to think of BitBay as competing with other sales channels, try to have a business owner point of view, escrow and immobilizing funds, bear the risk of lost funds while the product is shipped.

I don't see it very attractive compared to the other sales channel for Vendors.

And for buyers either...You have to own 2 times the value of what you buy ?

Come on, people are supposed to buy BitBay coins to use the system, think about that, you think it will be fine for average people to invest 2 times the value they want to buy BitBays from fiat ?

You try to explain that BitBay is a system only made for people that have already a lot of money to guarantee the reliability and that prefer to use BitBay because they like cryptocurrencies...
Okay then but so we can't hope BitBay will go mainstream and will be widely used, and that price of coin will grow and be pegged to Dollar, because i think all these aspects are depending of the large adoption and wide use of BitBay, for me it is like shooting yourself in the foot...

Well .. im too sceptical about the future .. im selling part of my coins just in case

I can tell you what will happen simply, Vendors will end by overcharging price of items to take in account the escrow they have to keep immobilized or they will bypass the escrow by asking the buyer to FE (Finalize Early) his transaction before the item is shipped, meaning the system will become quite useless because it is too expensive to bear for a lot of Buyers and Vendors

On a business model, for a Vendor that ship items that are received in about 2 weeks let's say, bear the escrow and the guarantee fund is enormous for 2 weeks...it is not really business friendly...only a Vendor starting with a large amount of cash for escrow will be able to do business constantly...And let's not speak about the issue to grow your business, the situation is even worse regards the requirements for growing the business.

In the end i think the system will destroy itself because the only options for Vendors will be to price items expensive or to bypass the escrow, and yet it is not very confortable for them.

As another user said there is also the problem of scalability, for little items it is fine to make an escrow of a few dollars, but not all the buyers will have 2 times the money of what they are buying when we speaks of thousands $, for a company it will be also a hell for accounting, i don't see small companies having enough money to adopt the system either...

My point is that it will be hard to put the system mainstream in these conditions for sure.

As i suppose the moderation or arbitration of transaction is not an option seeing the FAQ, there are perhaps others way to explore, community votes or supervision in case of dispute on a transaction, possibility of modification or configuration of the escrow to free only a part of it as it is done in business when you pay an advance on an order and pay the rest after to be able to negotiate between parties if needed.

Well, I've seen the exact same thing constantly (referring to either BTC or LTC usually) in the trollbox at BTC-E since the day it opened basically.  I'm sure if it the actual stock market exchanges had a trollbox/forum you'd see that said about everything from SLV to AAPL.

Of course, if you consider BTC, LTC, DRK, XMR, etc. to be 'sh*tcoins' - then I understand and agree with your point - I've seen it said with all of them at some point in the past year.  


Well, I guess I'm more conservative a 'spender' than many - but as a buyer I would consider myself not able to afford something I couldn't deposit the same amount for, and I definitely wouldn't want to deal with a seller that had nothing to their name but the item itself.  On the other hand, there's nothing to say you can't offer something without double-deposit escrow... it's just that you will then be accepting 100% of the risk yourself.

I could easily see that happening in cases of repeat business... i.e. if you do $1000 of 'good trades' you're given access to my "special customer offerings" which are presented as non-escrow'd contracts, but restricted to specific addresses.  Not sure if that's possible initially, but I could easily see it being possible eventually.

To me it's more of a case of asking if vendors would prefer deposits (which are refunded on all successful contracts) at a risk of loss in cases of fraud, or would prefer to pay ~15% (of revenue, not just profits) in fees and ancillary charges on every successful sale, and only hopefully get those refunded in the case of fraud - in which they still are out their items.

For a specific example:

I have something to sell for $100.  With smart contracts I require $100 in cash/BAY and my object... for a sale I require a buyer with $200.  My potential loss is $200, but so is theirs... so while possible for something smaller... it's less and less likely someone is going to pay $200 just to get a $100 item and screw me over - as they will still risk being blacklisted (non-whitelisted if you prefer).  If everything does go well... I sell my item and get my $100 back - plus I get to keep all $100 from the sale.  If my margin is 50% I'm actually only risking that someone would rather pay $200 to make me lose $150... which could happen, but not very often unless people that hate money are more prevalent than I believe.  My potential profit in the sale is $50, so I only have to make 3 successful sales to compensate for each incident of fraud.

On ebay I list the same item.  Now I'm going to have to pay around $11 for the sale itself (assuming only 'value pak' listing upgrades)... and another $3.20 if using PayPal (possibly up to $5 if using a regular CC processor).  In this case the risk is less for me - I'm basically just risking $50 per sale (my overhead).  However my profit margin is reduced by $14.20... so I'm making $35.80 per successful sale... which would still require 2 sales to 'survive' one complete loss.  This is better, but the risk that fraud represents to the buyer is almost nothing - they damage their reputation, but they can also simply create another account and start over.

In order to be as profitable on ebay, I would need to list my items for around 20% more than I would on BitBay... in order to make the same amout of profit.  This should result in lower priced goods on BitBay than the same items sold via other means.  Although the volume of buyers initially would make this a non-issue for most vendors, as the marketplace grows it should even out and potentially shift to BitBay's favor.

Regardless, in order to get 'free' stuff via BitBay the fraudster will lose 100% of the value of the item every time... vs losing nothing but their 'reputation' somewhere else.  If someone scams me for my item on ebay... they can literally turn around and sell it via another account and make ~$85 in pure profit.  That's a big incentive to commit the fraud - especially if you have 1000 fake accounts for doing this.

With smart contracts even if the item were 'flipped', the best they could hope for is a 66% loss... but to even get that, they'd have to put up an additional $100 of their own money.  So they'd essentially be paying $300 of their own money for each $100 of someone else's they received.  I consistently underestimate human stupidity... but I'm pretty sure that won't last very long even if there are a few bad seeds to begin with.

Here is the whitepaper on the double escrow tech

http://blackhalo.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/whitepaper_twosided.pdf

You can elaborate a lot of scenarii in my point of view.

Competition is one of the things that could be a problem, big Vendors with a good amount of money would be able to kill little Vendors pretty easily.

Once again theorically it is okay but you seem to not suspect how twisted are some people in these Markets activities.

So okay the buyer will lost money but perhaps he can afford that and not the other party...We don't live in a world of equity and egality...

As i said first the issue is the need to put 2 times the money in escrow for the buyer, if i want to buy an item at 1000 $ i have to own more money for the escrow, clearly not possible for everyone...

Then for Vendor, so if i want to sell an item because i need some money....first i need to have some money to put in escrow...If i want to sell an item at 1000 $ i have to own money and keep the money immobilized for some time...clearly not possible for everyone.

And now let's assume these points are achieved by both parties the problem stays competition....Let's take the example of the guitar given earlier, There is a large Vendor of guitars and you want to start a little shop yourself.

Well, it seems pretty easy to shut you down in 2-3 transactions abuse and it won't cost so much to a well established Vendor...Sure he willl pay two times the item price, but he still got the item and the poor little Vendor on the other side got nothing and lost his item...And I don't think he will try ever again to sell something on BitBay after that...

Hi Everyone

Hope everyone had a great weekend. The FAQ is being formatted right now by the lads in Taiwan and will be added on to the OP post in the next hour or so. It is several pages long, so they may choose to post it as a follow up post to avoid the wall of text effect. It will also be available as a dedicated section of the new website, which will be launching Wednesday.

thanks

BitBay Team

Hi Everyone

Please refrain from quoting trolls such as Barabas, J099, & AltcoinUK.  It just means we have to delete respected member posts also, and we of course would prefer not to delete posts from legitimate members of the community.

We have a busy week coming up. The thread is well over 100 pages now and people have occasionally had a hard time finding the specific information that has been given, so we are assembling a FAQ to gather this information into one place. Understandably, the Bay & Halo tech is new and not fully understood, so we felt it was important to consolidate this information in one place, along with some smart contract Q & A examples, etc.

The new website is on track to launch in the middle of the the week, and David has indicated that the new features in the wallet he has been discussing with you here on the thread will also be finished, enabling the wallet release.

We'll be posting the FAQ late afternoon CET on Monday and by then we should have more info on both the new website launch and the wallet release.

December can be a slow month in crypto, but it will  not be for Bay : -) Our marketing department has been developing some innovative and fun competitions for the community in December based on smart contract building, community outreach and more, with some nice Bay bounties for the winners as Christmas approaches. More info on that to come.

BitBay team

I have been staking consistently since the wallet was made available.  I am wondering if you updated correctly?  Did you create a new wallet address before you sent to yourself (might be a dumb question but I don't see it in the screenshots)?  Is your wallet encrypted but not open for staking?  

There are a few possibilities here...

To the original poster, try creating a new address and sending all your coins to yourself.  This will make a single, larger input of coins with a better chance at staking (since coinAge is no longer a variable).