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I think the real difference of opinion here comes from you earning USD and needing to convert to bitcoin before you use it. I earn mostly BTC, so I'm coming from a position of plenty of bitcoin and not so much USD.
Yes, a small portion of my btc income is from mining, but I also do programming work for people all over the world and prefer bitcoin. It sure beats 6+% fees for paypal (regular fees plus currency conversion fees).
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it is not game over, but it is not time to buy or hold. based on all the fundamentals, bitcoin is worth A LOT LESS than 94x the dollar. Until oil(or major commodity) is sold for bitcoin, this is a speculative price that has no basis in reality.
I also think a bitcoin can be worth 0 dollars and still not be game over.
1 bitcoin can be worth 1 barrel of oil.
a dollar is worthless. . . a bitcoin is a global currency and is worth way more than 200 dollars. Currency only has value if you can actually buy things. Other than gambling and drugs, there isn't much you can currently buy with bitcoins. I get so sick of hearing this. Bitcoinstore.com has over half a million products, 90% of which I can't find cheaper elsewhere. Coinabul.com, bitcoincommodities.com sell precious metals at decent prices Foodler.com, pizza4coins.com delivers food to your door Those are just off the top of my head. There are many more. I pay for 95% of my online purchases with Bitcoin. "Lifetime Sales:$536,732 / 6,239 BTC." More money passes through a walmart in a dead mall. IN A DAY. Coinabul.com, bitcoincommodities.com sell precious metals at decent prices: If Bitcoin is a sound store of value, why would anyone bother with precious metals? Irrelevant. Foodler.com: Instantly converts your Bitcoin to USD. Sells nothing/makes nothing. Protip: Sell your Bitcoin for USD -- order from *any* restaurant/pay on delivery. Pizza4coins.com: Dead. No pizza for me. TL;DR: Sorry, i can only think of two scenarios where Bitcoin is more convenient than $: SR & gambling. Possibly laundering money, though i wouldn't know. bitcoinstore- only a few months old, growing steadily precious metals- ever heard of diversification  foodler.... it's cheaper than converting to USD first pizzaforcoins.com.... sorry, wrong url... like I said, off the top of my head But, keep yourself painted in the drugs and gambling box. It will make coins cheaper for me. Oh wait, if bitcoin is only god for drugs and gambling in your mind, why are you here? Are you a gambler or a drug addict? |
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iirc Bitcoin prices weren't negative before May 2013. If they were negative I would have snapped them indefinitely and stored the associated fiat in a warehouse  Its a simple patten overlay and the 2013 price is not shown only the flow pattern. Current price isn't 12 either. Very elementary and simple to understand, but i guess still to technical for some. That's the problem. There is no valid technical explanation for this plot. It is an arbitrary alignment of two different data series. What's the reason you didn't align the beginning of the run up? Let me guess, you tried that but it didn't support your point well enough. |
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it is not game over, but it is not time to buy or hold. based on all the fundamentals, bitcoin is worth A LOT LESS than 94x the dollar. Until oil(or major commodity) is sold for bitcoin, this is a speculative price that has no basis in reality.
I also think a bitcoin can be worth 0 dollars and still not be game over.
1 bitcoin can be worth 1 barrel of oil.
a dollar is worthless. . . a bitcoin is a global currency and is worth way more than 200 dollars. Currency only has value if you can actually buy things. Other than gambling and drugs, there isn't much you can currently buy with bitcoins. I get so sick of hearing this. Bitcoinstore.com has over half a million products, 90% of which I can't find cheaper elsewhere. Coinabul.com, bitcoincommodities.com sell precious metals at decent prices Foodler.com, pizza4coins.com delivers food to your door Those are just off the top of my head. There are many more. I pay for 95% of my online purchases with Bitcoin. |
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Stop thread necromancy. And those who sold at 5$ bought back in at 2$ so yeah, they are pretty happy right about now  I have no problem with thread necromancy when it brings up an example from the past that people can learn from. Those who are focused on the short term will be burnt in this market. |
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Here is your proof, I just sent a Bitcoin to 1BitcoinDiesWithSHA256As0f09062013 and will spend it in less than 24 hours. That would mean that I successfully broken up SHA256.
I will give you all 24 hours to sell all bitcoins and avoid a major loss.
- Lophie
Timer removed. End time: 2013-06-10+3:00:00UTC
Nice try, but even if that was a valid address, it is not SHA256 that secures coins. It only is used to confirm blocks, not to sign transactions. |
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At least you are not buying dollars with your bitcoins.
My prediction is that by August the dollar will be half the value it is today. Though it may take some time for that value drop to be noticed as it spreads throughout the economy. But it will be felt.
How is that going to happen with a long term trend reversal forming on all major stock indices? When stocks go down, the dollar rises. What could possibly trigger hyperinflation at this point in time? The Federal Reserve is currently buying 73% of Treasury Notes, which are used to print money for the Federal Reserve who turns around and buys 74% of Treasury Notes which are used to print money for the Federal Reserve who turns around and buys 75% of Treasury Notes...etc... It is estimated that at the current rate, the Federal Reserve will be buying 100% of Treasury Notes by mid July. What this means is that no other country is willing to buy our debt. The only way our debt can be funded at that point is from printing money. Printing enough money to fund our government means the value of our currency will go down by that much on a daily basis. It will not be pretty. Even if the Federal Reserve stops buying our Treasury Notes...we only have 27% of the customers we used to have. In order to entice the other 73% into buying we have to sell cheap. Or jack up the interest paid on our debt. Can you provide a source that demonstrates your claim that interest in bonds from entities other than the Fed is falling? I'm not saying it's incorrect, I've just not seen any evidence. |
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At least you are not buying dollars with your bitcoins.
My prediction is that by August the dollar will be half the value it is today. Though it may take some time for that value drop to be noticed as it spreads throughout the economy. But it will be felt.
How is that going to happen with a long term trend reversal forming on all major stock indices? When stocks go down, the dollar rises. What could possibly trigger hyperinflation at this point in time? |
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safe and have small spread
Right up until it isn't. |
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That is hard to say, remember Moore's law
Moore's law is the observation that, over the history of computing hardware, the number of transistors on integrated circuits doubles approximately every two years.
Right, that's a doubling of efficiency every 18 months (not 2 years). That is a far stretch from a 40X increase in efficiency. Edit: The 2 year figure is correct for halving transistor size, but other improvements in transistor technology have led to a doubling in performance/watt every 18 months. |
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wow, those bid walls to 105 are impressive, do you think it could be this that scaring the whales?  more and more coins to market, less and less fiat - less than 13 million now... Zoom out... it's not so bad yet.  |
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Then you don't understand the hardware industry. ---- Glad to hear your explanation. But please remember, in the design, mining is a zero-sum game. So low-level ASICs have no way out.
Ordinary people are not supposed to mine. Mining is a professional industry. and as such requires special skills to do efficiently. Do you refuse to use a credit card because VISA won't let you process transactions yourself? Well with bitcoin you always have the option, but if you don't have the skills you will be wasting time and money ---- VISA is not a mining agency. It's just a card organization. And you can not process the transactions yourself. VISA is a centralize system but Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer system. They are not the same. My point is it is hard for people to experience the whole Bitcoin process. and it will be harder for people to acquire bitcoin by fiat money as the gov will close the doors.
And my point is bitcoin isn't about mining. Mining is just something some people do to keep bitcoin running. But you seem to believe Bitcoin is pointless unless everybody can mine. Of course, Bitcoin is not about mining. My point is, if more people can mine, it will be easier for them to join in the game, and the whole system will be healthy. Imagine some organizations to control the money supply in bitcoin society because they have super ASICs. Decentralization does not mean everybody is equal. Yes, one entity controlling most of the mining power is a threat to bitcoin. However, the current reality of the ASIC market doesn't leave much room for that possibility. |
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Thanks. I found this well written blog post about the bitcoin bubble: http://konradsgraf.com/blog1/2013/4/6/hyper-monetization-questioning-the-bitcoin-bubble-bubble.htmlI especially liked "To imagine how different this is from a classic asset bubble, it would be as if not only the price of bubble-era houses were rising, but also that their actual sought-after qualities as houses were improving spontaneously at the same time. Such houses might sprout new rooms with no one building them, with new paint jobs appearing mysteriously overnight without any painters having visited." Except any improvements in the bitcoin ecosystem are made by people. Yes, you can benefit without participating (other than holding btc), but that doesn't make those improvements spontaneously appear. |
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You sure spend a lot of time talking about price for someone who doesn't give a fuck about it.
Well , isn't that because people here in the economy sub section only think about price? Good news , bad news , the only thing affected is the price. Nobody cares about the number of transaction , actual companies dealing in bitcoins. Price will have to skyrocket for mass adoption and new start-ups to flock in. Let's asumme that ATM is launched and functional. First thing people are going to say is "price will skyrocket" only a few will say , i'm burning my credit card. And about my free time , I have lots of it. I can afford the luxury of doing nothig while I'm attending university for my second "piece of paper" as i like to call it. So you don't care about it, but you talk about it just to fit in? That's sad. As for Nobody cares about the number of transaction , actual companies dealing in bitcoins.
That's just not true. I monitor both of these. You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about this community that just don't hold. |
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Ok , I won't get it and I refuse to undestrand why bitcoin price has to go down in order to bounce back to 110+.
Second. I refuse to undestand how some of you can preach is a store of value when you expect it's value to halve in one- two weeks time.
Dude... it has only been above 30 for three months now. Unless you bought in the middle of a hype cycle you have at least tripled your money at these prices. However, I'm guessing based on your posts that you in fact did buy during the hype cycle. Don't worry... in 6 months to a year we'll have another one. Zoom the fuck out and relax. Based on my post you could have understand that I don't give a f** about price. I only bought coins for use and all. And opened a new wallet every time so I really don't have a clue how many bitcoins I still have in reality. Whats i'm only intereste right now is its evolution. (and the people behind) You sure spend a lot of time talking about price for someone who doesn't give a fuck about it. |
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Ok , I won't get it and I refuse to undestrand why bitcoin price has to go down in order to bounce back to 110+.
Second. I refuse to undestand how some of you can preach is a store of value when you expect it's value to halve in one- two weeks time.
Dude... it has only been above 30 for three months now. Unless you bought in the middle of a hype cycle you have at least tripled your money at these prices. However, I'm guessing based on your posts that you in fact did buy during the hype cycle. Don't worry... in 6 months to a year we'll have another one. Zoom the fuck out and relax. |
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People who went "all in" at 50 do care.
I'm all in and I don't give a shit. I will fall and raise with BTC Ideology is clouding your judgment. Selling high and buying more of what you believe in lower, is a smarter move. Only if you are able to predict the future. |
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The problem now is that any rally will have low volume until certain thresholds are passed and people feel safe buying in again. During that time, any work can be undone overnight by a dumper/manipulator. So it's a wasted investment at this stage.
The best metric for me would be a map of the largest holders of BTC -- I know this is impossible, but we can at least track the BTC/address density. Once can assume if this is decreasing then there are less whales / dumpers, all other things being equal.
Look up bitcoin days destroyed. |
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8.50000?
 37.2 |
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Hoarding is just another word for "saving"...Something more people with traditional fiat should do.
+1 |
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