Greek Bonds can get you 0.5%/week.

Pirate 'might' be safer though.

Hey,

I can get a crate of 100 Ipads from China for $200/each. I don't have the money this week, but can sell them for $400/each within the week. I need someone to lend me $20,000. I'll give you back $21,400 next week. 7%. I'll just keep the extra $18,600.
Next week, I might be able to get 2 crates, some with my money, and some with another loan.


Point being RETAIL businesses have huge MarkUps. Earning 7% per week is nothing in retail. The profit depends on the overhead.

Franchises usually operate in 3% for the Franchisee. Not per week but overall for each and every sale. Per hour, per day, per week, per month, per year.


Just trying to show that the 'rate' isn't crazy. Sustainability will be 'ONCE' the market is saturated with Ipads.

And that is just Retail, now think ComEX.

Is it possible to be an 'illegal' operation? Yes.  Is it possible for it to be a legal operation? Yes.   

But gossip and fud goes over so much better.

Take a seat on the fence and watch the show.

Mystery Science Theater 2000.

Referencing the Bold highlight.

LOL, Irony...

Indecision may or may not be my problem. ~ Buffett

People who think too much before they act don't act too much. ~ Buffett

And I try to give the best bang for the buck. I love performing more than anything else. ~ Buffett

Indecision may or may not be my problem. ~ Buffett

It takes no more time to see the good side of life than it takes to see the bad. ~ Buffett

Older and wiser voices can help you find the right path, if you are only willing to listen. ~ Buffett

Quitting doesn't enter my mind. ~ Buffet

I sell escapism. ~ Buffet

Jimmy that is.

You know at a lumber yard, there is a lot of waste (byproducts). Lumber yards figured out how to use this waste to increase the efficiency.

Question:

In order to get a hash at the current difficulty some Input(x) is hashed can compared to the difficulty requirement, Output(y) = equal required difficulty? If so then Block(N), if not dev/null?

Point being, if you saved the Input(x) and the resulting Output(y) for all hashes, couldn't there be a way to use the waste?

I thinks there might be a way. Isn't that data useful in any way?

And that is the whole Frigging Point of why you don't disclose Business Models if others can't figure them out.

NOW, ask very nicely and he might sell Franchises... lol

5 Million Up front, 7.1% royalties.  j/k

I might be confused here. Are you saying making 7%/week is illegal? or paying 7%/week is illegal?

OMG, don't you guys know what markups are in Retail? Lets start sending everybody to jail, they're all ponzi's.

Can we start with Cell Phone companies?

Oh, how about MP that charges $5 per fill and people routinely buy $50 cards. That is 10% right there.

But I see how it is, if it walks like a Duck, quacks like a Duck, it's a Goose.

LOL, yea most TOS have a 'whatever' we decide clause.

You ever see the sign at a Valet parking place that they are not responsible for etc..., etc...?

IT'S a LIE.

You can say one thing, but the courts decide if it is actually what you intended.

Otherwise their would be no need of civil courts. You could just point to TOS and say didn't you read the sign.

MTGOX as far as I know take an appropriate response in their Terms of Use. Reception of tainted coins 'might' kick off a AML Identity request. They as far as I know, do not require you to identify where you received coins (nor should you tell them, you should only tell properly Identified LE Officers if you wish). You may be required to identify. The problem there is that you could send coins to everybody at MTGOX forcing the AML requirements on everybody. That might not be good for business. Especially when people are often required to identify multiple times.

I mean seriously MTGOX is requiring tougher rules than Banks. They might as well just become one and get it over with. I can open an account here with a DL and SSN. Some 'illegals' can open accounts here with just a consulate ID and not even be a citizen. Pretty soon, Americans will be using foreign banks overseas for ease of use. Unfortunately many of them won't take US Citizens because of the insane requirements being imposed on them by the FED.

I was more inclined to mean 'other' businesses that use the tactic of freezing and re-claiming coins deemed 'tainted'.

You are right in that the free market should take care of this but the free market also includes the use of lawyers to speed up decisions.

Plus: Think of the unemployment rate and GDP. Imagine all the people that need to be hired and money needing to be spent when lawyers get involved.

That alone might keep organizations from trying 'self help' methods and just wait for LE Inquiries before taking actions.

What happened to the days when Businesses required a warrant to take actions rather than just 'you follow our rules or else' threats?

We need to get back on track to appropriate rules and stop this craziness. Lets start with Lawyers and Lobbyists before we bring out the guns to take the country back.

You know what is sad? The 'terrorists' won on 9/11. They successfully have taken away our Liberties by forcing us to pass the Patriot Act and allowing our government to do anything they want under the guise of National Security.

Prying back that power that was given to them is going to be hard. Bitcoin is a start, to prove the uselessness of the rules.

Yes, this is when I first came across it. MTGOX froze an account of some poor guy that bought coins off of TH and sent to MTGOX. It seems that a lot of 'tainted' coins came from TH. The unfortunate account holder at MTGOX that received them would bear the punishment if decided to be employed by an individual or company.

I think what might need to happen is to set up a 'legal attack fund' for businesses that resort to 'self help' in freezing coins, accounts, and coins.  You know why real Banks and Exchanges don't freeze and take stolen money back if they deemed something suspicious without a warrant and/or subpoena to do so?  BECAUSE they will get sued into Bankruptcy oblivion.

Maybe that would stop some of this insanity.

Would there be interest in a fund of this sort. We can head over to Legal and set one up with a lawyer.

And now for the Rest of the Story ~ Paul Harvey


IT Admin was issued a memo to report to the CFO's office.

CFO inquires: "How much money are we talking here?"

IT Admin: "100's of Thousands"

CFO: "Your not fired, but lets do it covertly and boost the Companies bottom line."

IT Admin: "Yes, sir."

Well that is nice, hint but don't slander. It is an improvement though.

And what is it with 'investors', 'lenders', 'traders', etc... Searching the internet for their investigative techniques. You realize that even for a Lexis Nexus search your starting information needs to be confirmed. It is the internet. Do you get all your investing information from it? If you were to invest any significant sum with anybody, you might want to actually meet them and confirm information. You can't rely on PP accounts, email headers, IP addresses, scanned images of DL's, etc... as a form of identity. That might reduce a risk (at least a little) but they are not scribed in stone. Geesh... waiting for someone to use Barack Obama, he could get a PP account, Bank Account, and even provide a Birth Certificate since it was posted for the whole world to see.

Truly paranoid people will even expect their computers to be compromised and load it full of information for people to speculate on and lead them on wild goose chases.

If you really want to know, go and find out. But until then, you must rely on his actions to date. He has done what he said he was going to do.

I am willing to bet when everything comes to light there will be some "WTF's I got that one wrong" going on here.

Make a list of 'ALL' possibilities and start checking them off but keep them to yourselves until you can prove something. Go ahead and talk among the various cabal's or w/e but don't put them in a public forum that is searched via the google.bot

Yes, I can agree it is ok to try to trace the coins. People do it for many reasons. People even do it with IRL dollars: http://www.wheresgeorge.com/ I can also certainly understand wanting to get your coins back. You know, I once left my physical wallet on a bar once. I went back to get it and low and behold, it was gone. There was about 200 dollars in it plus all my id. Do you know who I blamed the most?  ME, I was an idiot. Did I want to get it back? Yes. Did I expect to get it back? No.

But what if I saw a guy exiting the bar with the wallet in his hand? Is he the thief? Or did he just call the police and was walking outside to give it to the officers?  (Just saying that 'self help' from an un-objective person usually has bad results.)

So, yes do all the tracing and tracking that you want. Try to find out what happened and prevent it from happening again.

There was someone here that lost 100 BTC from some unknown reason from his computer. He immediately tried tracking the coins but didn't seem to care how the coins where stolen. He deleted his drive and started fresh.

This doesn't mean I don't want to stop thieves. I don't want thieves getting away with theft. There are just two methodologies to stoping them.

1) Make it easy to track and retrieve the coins from thefts. (The unintended consequences of this will destroy the whole community)

2) Make it impossible for the thieves from stealing them in the first place. (Can't see a flaw in this one and the encrypted wallet is along this line)

You know what attracts me to BTC? The fact that I have Wallets that can't be stolen to a mathematical certainty. NO, virus can get them. Absolutely, no one can get them. Utilizing a shared secret, there are wallets that I can't get unless others agree to let me get them and they can't get them unless I agree. (Defeats the Rubber Hose Decryption Methods).

The whole point is don't keep BTC in a hot wallet or even on a computer connected to the internet that you can't afford to lose. Hell, don't even keep them on a computer that can get stolen.

Bitcoin is an almost perfect safe deposit box. Stop giving people the keys to the boxes.

Plus business that require a float, could certainly have an insurance fund for loss of the float. IF it takes 18K for a float, then have 18K in a cold wallet just incase.

Hey Dawg,

How are you? Is Hawaii still good for business?  I like your show. You always get your man. Your wife looks mean though.

Nice to see that you like Bitcoins. Will you be taking them for Bail-Bonds? I bet that will go over really well here.

More importantly, if a system is put in place to determine coins tainted and reclaim them from vendors and exchanges, what happens when BTC are declared 'illegal' buy governments or institutions?

They now have methods of taking the coins away.

As far as making untraceable coins, it is already being done. Where are all the Casascius coins?  Where are they recorded in the Blockchain when traded? Trading of wallet.dat(s) when properly secured by non-forgable methods will be huge. You don't even need to check on the internet for the casascius coins still being there. Anyone with a copy of the blockchain can do it.

Making coins of similar or better can be done by almost anyone. So there isn't even a central supplier of the coins.

And in reality all the blockchain does is show transfer of funds, it can't show the intent or purpose of the transfer. Is it a donation? a payment for legal services? a payment for illegal services? a kickstarter? a winning raffle?

Please make this 'tainted' business go away. It will harm the community. I would think that the people trying to enforce this 'tainted' business know the flaws to it. So, I tend to start thinking on why they are supporting it. It raises questions as to the reasons for their support of it.

See, you might not have that option. If you have used 1 address publicly or even privately ( the private person might make it public), they 'Anyone' could just send you coins. You don't have the option of refusing to accept them. The Blockchain accepts them on your behalf.    Now, you are in a position of proving you didn't know that you weren't expecting them.

i.e. YOU have been FRAMED for something you did not do. Try telling people that someone just gave them to you.

BTW: I have at times randomly just given coins to people without their knowledge that I was going to send them coins. This can be fun. It can mess with statistics, financial reports, reporting of losses and gains. I do it to try to get people to realize some fallacies in the accounting and use of addresses. Am I harming anyone? No, I think not. I'm just giving them BTC, it's not my fault that they have used faulty methods for accounting.

To my knowledge, none of the coins have been 'tainted'.

You do realize that 1 "tainted" BTC is actually 100,000,000 Million tainted coins if separated and sent properly.

Can we have a 'little person', say: "De Plane, De Plane" ?

If this was international waters, you would probably get a lot of interest. What jurisdiction does it fall under?

This is true for both. The level of security implemented is 'usually' a direct correlation to the value of the item(s) being protected.

So if you leave your running Ferrari in Detroit unprotected, don't be surprised it is stolen. If you leave your running Ferrari in Detroit with a Tank protecting it, you might be surprised if it is stolen.

No, Your #2 Scenario is wrong. I just believe that there should be shared responsibility for the theft but punishing everyone that could possibly come into contact with the coins is also wrong.

i.e. Goto down town Detroit in a Ferrari leave the keys in the car, the car running, the doors open, and leave for the day. The thief that steals the car is doing wrong, but the owner shares some responsibility. In fact, this is a well known insurance scam. The owner is expecting the car to get stolen. Sometime these type of thefts are prearranged.

This is very complicated and hard to prove much of anything. Lets drop the 'tainted' coins idea. Now if someone steals 18K Coins to an address and immediately sells from that address to a verified MTGOX account, then we can 'start' to talk. But, who is going to do that?  But other than that, this is a bad idea.

Ok, I'll accept that. I would assume you would report it to the Police and let everybody know what is the Police Report Number is and who is the case officer that people reporting the coins can contact. What is the Police Report number in this case and who is the case officer?
Or is this just 'self help' here?



Ok, the owners of the faucet have committed a crime in this scenario and should be prosecuted. Or are you saying: Knowingly? If so, I can guarantee that everyone will say they didn't knowingly do it.



This sort of makes sense, but soon enough you are talking about the majority of the community acting to return the coins because after awhile the 'tainted' coins will be in everyones wallet.

But more importantly, this couldn't be enforce 'equally' as some will return and some won't return. Quickly creating an imbalance where people that do return are screwing themselves compared to others that don't return. Not to mention isolating the coins from the wallet takes work and isn't supported in the official client. Coin Control could help in this but this takes work to do so not only does the honest person lose his money, he also loses his time and effort value.




It 'might' do that. But it is more likely that innocent victims will be labeled and possibly prosecuted for something they had nothing to do with.

BTW: Do you have 'stolen' coins in your wallet? Do you know how to answer that question and find out? Should the average John Q Public?


You will eventually run across the occasional guy that just screams to get caught but more often than not, it will be the end receiver.

Yes, to the Greek People. Sorry for mistaking the Greek Government as being run by the 'People'. That was foolish of me.