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Since the chips STILL are not here, I have requested a full refund for all my chips in group buys 1,2,3,4 and 5 through the form.
Also, I've requested assembly refunds (if any), as well.
Please check your e-mail steambizzle as well.
It was a good try in good faith. These things happen. Hell, I've lost way more in the stock market, this is nothing.
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You ever think he might be trying to find a way out of this & is still in limbo of what he can devulge to us  Just do what you gotta do,I have confidence things will work out.Until Y I FU ships chips or refunds,what choice is there................. BTW,I waited over a year for my BFL unit & had communication the whole way from BFL/Josh.To me this is "a walk in the park "  I don't see how he should take 3 weeks to get the chip refunds in order, while SebastianJu and Zefir handled it to full conclusion in a matter of days. Stop glorifying steamboat, he's doing a shit job.What's the point of "communication" if the end result does not change? So, you had a year's worth of communication from BFL? How did the communication change the result from January to March, if no shipping? What about the communication in March? Did it change the end result in April? I highly doubt it, because I have BFL stuff on order too. Nothing has changed, month to month. So, communication with nothing new is absolutely worthless. Why do you need an update every other day? To communicate that nothing has changed? That's worthless. Obviously, nothing has changed since the last update, so what is there to report? That more people are waiting for the refund? That Yifu isn't doing jack? I really do not see the point of all this vitriol. You want personal, up to the minute service? Get a dog that will hang around and give you updates every minute. |
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Maybe he's having the same problem as Yifu. He has the Mafia following him and knocking on the door of people he knows/does business with. Maybe we'll get a knock on our doors too... Mafia dude: Hey, did you give a loan or buy stuff from some guy named Steamboat? You : Well, umm...yeah, but the stuff never came from China. Mafia dude: It will never come, sucka !! Cuz I broke his legs and stole his cash !  |
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I'm still willing to pay $20 each to grief people who are still waiting for BFL preorders by jacking up the difficulty slightly.
If I were in government I'd definitely mandate "a USB block erupter in every home". [/troll]
So, if I have a BFL order that has not shipped yet, and I keep buying block erupters, does that mean I'm griefing myself? |
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For reference, that guy got refunded too, so far everyone who has asked for it has gotten a refund. He just posted a few minutes ago about getting refunded. That is just piss poor customer service. The dude should not have to post on the forums and practically beg for notice to get a refund. Pathetic customer service on BitSynComm's part. I'm still waiting to hear update 2 from Steamboat, as I'm sure he's trying to straighten things out with Yifu, but I can tell you I'd rather not be dealing with BitSyncomm right now. We'll see who actually ships first, BFL or BitSyncomm. So far, it looks like there is very little difference. They both overpromise and underdeliver. |
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If Avalon ever ships we'll have a lot of assembled K16s and the firmware will get sorted out quickly. I'll even dust off my PICkit 3 and MPLAB if I have to.
Well, they hash, but at a reduced rate. We could still be debugging and hashing. Not ideal, but better than nothing. |
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I don't think everyone needs to.abandon. For the sake of community development. I'd say we finish the project. If a handful exist that's okay. I understand people are MIA as well as nerve racked. That is why I believe wr need fresh hands and eyes on this project.
Absolutely! I'm not advocating we abandon the project. But there's no point in continuing the design using first-generation Avalon chips. They are obsolete. At this point, with an assembled board in hand, if you mine forever, you will not make back the cost of the miner. However, we can retarget for a different chip and, at the very least, break even. The design is fully functional, the only thing that needs to be finished is firmware. I have two boards hashing with only one side (with 8 chips) at about 3Ghps, ~3% ER (without USB ferrite beads), chips overclocked to 375MHz with no overvolt. Other side on each board has few chips that do not respond, but this is because those chips were poorly soldered. And on every board it's different side. Tried to fix it yesterday, but was unsuccessful, and now waiting for solder wick and isopropylalcohol. I've also tried some modifications in firmware for 16 chips, but it wasn't really usable. The board with that did hash faster, but had around 20% ER - which is a firmware and poorly assembled chips problem, not the design one. Now waiting with this until I fix the other side, then will continue working on FW. Tried also to contact one of the companies, that claimed to have fully working board (with firmware that hash with all 16 chips), but they did not respond. Anyone here can guess why. About the ROI, it really is gone now, but you have to take into account, that BTC price will likely go up, so even if you lose now, you can gain later. Especially if you've already made an investment in the HW, chips etc. Edit: And about changing the HW for next gen Avalon chips (or any other chips), who is going to make this? Bkk seems to be gone (probably get sick of all the events regarding chips delivery, companies taking advantage of opensource project and giving nothing back) and there is noone (even in the group of those companies, which started their business on this) who is able to make this change. Is it not possible for you guys to use TerraHash's stuff? They said they have working k16's with less than 1% error rates. What Terrahash stuff? They have used stuff that Bkk made as opensource. To be absolutely clear on this, I've wrote to them about mine board with 4 chips assembled hashing at 400MHz with around 0.6% ER, when they were asking me via PM about the changes in HW I made to get it working. They were not able to fix even this for the whole time. They claimed even here on this forum, that the design is wrong. Later, when they did claimed at 5th of September, that they do have a working board, and the only issue there is I2C, I've wrote them again, asking what firmware changes do they made to hash with all 16 chips and that low error rate. They didn't even bother to wrote me back. So what do they actually have? Nothing? Lies? Zipiju, I think you're doing a great job and a service to the community. Unfortunately, it's been a LONG time since I've done any assembly/firmware type programming, so I'm totally sort of out of touch with that aspect of it. But, I'm sure whatever you decide will be a much better solution than what we have now. If you need anything, beer, movie tickets, cheap hookers, lemme know and I'll see what I can do. See if you can get in touch with Steamboat, he is also working on assembly for a group buy, which of course has been delayed. But, I think he has a machine assembled K16 miner which should have better soldering consistency. Pls post a donation address.  |
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So now the chips are on their way finally, but people that have requested a refund were "conveniently" too late??
Wow...
So sowwy, we aweady shipp you order....
That is seriouly messed up.
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Please stop posting wild and misleading claims without showing any calculations. Below is calculated with 4500 mh/s, $.0.10 electricity, and 33% per month increase in difficulty rating for one K16 starting at 100 million difficulty.
33% difficulty increase per month is laughable. From August 3rd to September 4th of this year, we've seen a 232% increase. How can you try to calculate @ 33% per month when the last month has been 232% increase? Obviously 232% per month is unsustainable LONG term. But if HashFast, KNC, Bitfury and BFL continue to make miners with significant hashpower, this increase can last long enough to make these 110 nm chips lose over half of their assembled value. To not accept this likely outcome is to look at this situation with rose colored glasses. I agree with you that 232% increase per month in difficulty is not really sustainable. And, I am not looking at this through rose colored glasses. It is, of course, infinitely debatable whether actually ANY ASIC that won't start mining past October 2013 will actually make ROI, assuming current BTC prices. And that is the rub, which some people choose to not accept, BTC price increases. Like it or not, the conversion rate between Yen and $$ USD actually matters to financial markets, like Tokyo and Wall St. Similarly, the BTC to $$ or Euro exchange rate DOES matter. It's one thing for BTC to be at $100/BTC, and quite another for the exchange rate to drop to $15/BTC. The Bitcoin universe does not exist by itself, despite wishful thinking. You have to consider exchange rate, for the simple reason that If BTC dropped to zero value/Euro or $$, NOBODY would be mining it. Looking at extreme scenarios gives you a good idea of what the real value of something is. Similarly, if BTC went to $1000/BTC, it would be on every news headline. Look what happened when it hit over $200/BTC earlier this year. Bitcoin started being in the news. That is what some people do not understand. If BTC dropped to zero value/Euro or $$, NOBODY would be mining it. So it is absurd to ignore the fact that BTC has recently increased in value, and it would be absurd to NOT include that in ROI calculations. |
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Do you actually bother to READ anything besides criticizing $ signs??
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Yea, at this point only if the chips actually WERE free would we be able to make any money. This is so fucking awful.
Please stop posting wild and misleading claims without showing any calculations. Below is calculated with 4500 mh/s, $.0.10 electricity, and 33% per month increase in difficulty rating for one K16 starting at 100 million difficulty. As anybody can see, the situation is nowhere near as the naysayers predict. Breakeven is at 15 weeks, even using really negative assumptions. Assuming $300 for one K16 and no overclocking potential at all, therefore 32 W for K16. Go to https://bitclockers.com/calc and put in your own numbers if your electricity cost is different. It's not hard to actually do some calculations. 24 hours 1 month 1 year 90 days Est difficulty: 100,000,000 133,000,000 3,063,512,746 232,522,578 BTC earned: 0.02263114 0.67893416 2.62879227 1.56021646 Revenue: $ 2.89 $ 86.83 $ 336.20 $ 199.54 Power cost: $ 0.08 $ 2.30 $ 28.03 $ 6.91 Net revenue: $ 2.82 $ 84.52 $ 308.16 $ 192.62 Bitcoins per day: 0.02263114 BTC Generate a block every: 3 years 1 weeks 5 days 16 hours 8 mins 37 seconds Break even in: 15 weeks 1 days 11 hours 27 mins 37 seconds Break even on: Monday 23rd of December 2013 04:54:09 PM Net at 90 days: $ -46.43 |
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Here's my speculation
April - dev boards and excuses
May - dev boards and more excuses
June - updates related to the new chips with lower power draw
July - possible production with new chips
August - delays because of ill preparation for mass assembly
September - production quality pre-orders start shipping
Jan/Feb 2014 - production quality pre-orders finish shipping
March 2014 - mini rig assembled :p
I think the irony of bumping up a 5 month old thread is that the SHIT about this just does not stop, and it has not changed or gotten any better. That should tell you something. It hasn't changed, ain't ever gonna change, and the crap will just stay the same, forever. |
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Good points.
I think another point that needs to be made is that we are really on the forefront here, in terms of the technology that has been developed, and in the process of being deployed.
That's really what you've paid for, to actually BE on the bleeding edge of technology. What people may (or may not) have realized is that by being in on this group buy, it's is not just a simple matter of you pay for a product and it arrives, turnkey, like you would if you order it on Amazon.com. That's not the way it works.
This is what it means to be on the bleeding edge of technology deployment:
1) Things may not go according to plan.
2) There may be delays in the deployment, functioning, and sometimes even basic stupid stuff, like shipping and delivery.
3) It may take longer than you, or for that matter, anybody else, has actually planned, and/or it may cost more (let's hope not).
This is what being at the forefront of technology is all about. The going is usually not easy.
That's usually when the weak hands are shaken out, and the tough get going. I've been trying to solve some of the USB configuration problems, because I want to have the system that drives the miners ready for when they get here.
It has been quite an experience, and I've been learning a lot of stuff about unix and cgminer. I don't have it fully sorted out yet, but it has been fun. There are lot of other people putting in significant amounts of time to get this done. It has been a wonderful experience to observe the community effort and be a small part of it.
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...
3 block erupter USB detected, but it's hashing really slow, like 100 Mh/s each.
...
Sigh, I spent a reasonable amount of time over more than a month resolving this (and commenting about it in the cgminer thread) It's a libusb bug (ckolivas also recently found another one ... in libusb ... and change the usbutils.c to work around it) The 100MH/s simply means the libusb you are using is no good. It's timeouts don't work You really do need to use current cgminer ... not an old version of it. Or ... the explanation I put in the README before ckolivas finally added the working libusb source to the cgminer source rather than linking against a system installed version. The manual fix (that I also did on Steamboats system just to check that wasn't the cause of problems there) https://github.com/ckolivas/cgminer/commit/d470828fb3681c0ebadea0d7cb0fab1bf465df46#READMEThank you Kano ! Really appreciate this man ! Again, I'm a Linux and compiling nOOb, so I'm learning as I go. Since I don't have a K16 (grrrr at idiots in charge of mismanaged chip company)..., I'm using USB erupters to try to iron out usb bugs...thanks a bunch again !! The klondike gethub has cgminer up to 3.3.1, I would have thought that was fairly new, but, I guess not ! Can I just get the new source code and replace the version 3.3.1 source file with the 3.4.0 one in the Klondike directory and compile it? Also, where to you add this line?? I don't understand this part... Now when you configure cgminer as listed further below in the build + instructions, for all the USB devices you must add libusb as follows: + LIBUSB_CFLAGS="-I./libusb/libusb-1.0.16-rc10/libusb" LIBUSB_LIBS="./libusb/libusb-1.0.16-rc10/libusb/.libs/libusb-1.0.a -ludev" where does this LIBUSB_CFLAGS command go?? I have no clue... Thank you. |
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My point of view: I need miners,any way shape or form,my calcs tell me I need 260GH per Petahash of network speed to achieve 1 BTC per day. So,I'll keep whatever Steamboat can deliver  Yes,they are late,due to NO fault of Steamboat. These miners will still make me BTC in the long run.At 35 watts per unit (4.5GH),its still a great deal. I have money invested in other miners as well & between all those miners the ROI will be made up on these I have great faith in Steamboat,I have talked to him by phone & conversed with him via PM,in the beginning,& will go with whatever decision he makes. Hang in there Steamboat !!!!!!!!!! Keep moving forward !!!!!!!!!!!! My point of view also, I received the e-mail to apply for a refund, I'm here to stay and receive what I bought from Steamboat. ASIC Chips and fully assembled Klondike K16 Boards(Fusion 16 Bitcoin Miners), firmware pre-installation, and stability testing. I'm here to Mine BTC and when I receive my miners I'll post Hashing Rates and BTC Mined! I'm glad some other smart people have come to the same conclusions as I have, and have actually bothered to do some actual calculations, instead of jumping to conclusions. |
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I guess I read that on the cgminer README.
Thanks for pointing that out Dunkelheit667
You guys are godly ! At least, I think so. Ok so I did: sudo groupadd plugdev (wasn't necessary, plugdev was already installed). then sudo usermod -G plugdev -a `whoami` then sudo cp 01-cgminer.rules /etc/udev/rules.d/ Then rebooted. 3 block erupter USB detected, but it's hashing really slow, like 100 Mh/s each. Doesn't really matter at this point for the speed, I just wanted to see if the Klondike-Icarus hybrid compile would detect and hash using some kind of USB units. I'll try again later with a pure Icarus compile, and see if there is any difference. But, this may be some kind of progress, I hope. Did I mention you are godly? (I'm learning unix on the fly here....) |
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I'm sure the K16 will be working just fine. There are lots of people working on this, and the hardware errors are no worse than an overheated block erupter, like 1-3%. I've managed to compile a unix version of a cgminer 3.3.1 with klondike enabled, as per Bkkcoins instructions, and it seems to be working just fine, I just need a K16 or Fusion 16 to test it out. Yes there will be bumps in the road, but that's just the way it is. With Steamboat and a bunch of other people working on this, I'm confident these units will be hashing before my BFL order gets here ...hahahahaha Now that people are happy with their refund processing, that will leave more chips for those of use who stuck it out.  |
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Haven't tried server. Here's an update:
I used Ubuntu 12.04 32 bit Client, and installed it. I then git-cloned cgminer and compiled it with the necessary flags, downloading all dependencies except libusb (keeping what Ubuntu installed).
This is working for me flawlessly with multiple USB units.
Hi Vesperwillow Thanks for posting that. I'm also trying to get cgminer to work on Linux Mint 14, which is based on Ubuntu 12.04 (mines 64 bit).. Anyway, did you have to download any additional drivers for the block erupter USBs? Mine keeps saying it does not detect device 2:8, but I plug in another one and it says does not detect USB device 2:9 , etc.. It is detecting something, but for whatever reason not running them. This is a cgminer 3.3.1 fresh compile with --icarus-enabled --disable-adl Thanks in advance. |
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Yes I just compiled and got a segmentation fault. I was assuming that it was due to a graphics driver issue, because my cgminer (with gpu) does the same thing, while my cgminer-nogpu does not do this when I compile it under Linux Mint 14. How do you get cgminer to compile with no gpu support, but with klondike support and icarus support? I wanna test Klondike compiled version actually runs, but I don't have a Klondike, so I want to compile it for icarus as well. Hi guys, I've got cgminer compiled and it's working quite good on x64 and RPi. API working as well. Things I've done: Cloned repo here https://github.com/bkkcoins/cgminer-klondikeThen in the folder: ./automake.sh ./configure --disable-opencl --disable-adl --enable-klondike make Just one problem - when I connect more than one K16, it wont start, just freezes where it says CGMiner version ... With one it's hashing OK. Anyone had success with this? Thanks. [/quote] Ok Zipiju thanks a lot !!! I used your suggestion (but without the ./automake.sh cuz it was not working) and added the following ./configure --disable-opencl --disable-adl --enable-klondike --enable-icarus make it compiles and runs just fine. I wanted icarus devices to test USB functionality, and I happen to have 3 USB block erupters handy...so... When no USB erupters are plugged in, it does nothing. When I plug in 1 usb erupter directly into the computer, it says "USB init open device failed, err -3, you dont have priviledge to access - AMU device 2:8" Then I plug in the second one, and it detects it and says "USB init open device failed, err -3, you dont have priviledge to access - AMU device 2:9" Then I plug in the 3rd one, and it detects it and says ""USB init open device failed, err -3, you dont have priviledge to access - AMU device 2:10" So, the USB detection is working, that's what I'm guessing anyway. Whatever version of the usb library is working, and it seems to be detecting, at least, it detects Icarus devices. I think that's good news. Weird, so I've created a strange Klondike, Icarus hybrid. My guess is since the usb detection is working, it should detect Klondike's as well.... I'm connected to my pool but I usually have configuration problems with USB Block erupters and CGminer (I use BFG miner under windows to run my USB block erupters)... Gonna work on getting them working Under linux just for kicks. If you have any USB erupters or can borrow one, try it. I am not a Unix expert by any stretch of the imagination... |
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