Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware

[jml25]

That's a fascinating thread that I've been following since the beginning. Without it, I'd have never ordered any chips. I know SB did provide the heatsink, and for all I know provided financial support. I guess I missed how he's "working with Kano on getting K16 support into the 'normal' cgminer". I doubt that's entirely accurate.

On another note, I appreciate the re-posting of the email, but without the refund link, it didn't help much. (I totally understand why the link should not be posted in public).

But I can't request a refund until I get the email! I sent an email request last night to SB requesting a copy, but still nothing. Sent another email this morning signed with the original transaction address.

As if this situation isn't bad enough, I HAVE TO BEG FOR THE EMAIL?! Please Sir, May I Have the Email? Given the "terms" of the refund, I'm not sure I'll go for it. But it would be nice to be given the option like everyone else.

I'd also like to add that his latest update/email is kind of confusing. How are we to make an informed decision regarding refunds if there is a "second part" to the update. There are many unanswered questions, and not enough info to make a a choice.

Sheesh!  <-- poor substitute for the string of obscenities I wanted to type.

This was Kano's quote from that thread that was relevant:

The manual fix (that I also did on Steamboats system just to check that wasn't the cause of problems there)
https://github.com/ckolivas/cgminer/commit/d470828fb3681c0ebadea0d7cb0fab1bf465df46#README

This can be inferred to mean he was working on a K16 steamboat had to try and troubleshoot. Getting the K16 stuff merged into the main cgminer is a huge huge deal for those who move forward with the klondike stuff and it appears that steamboat is at least involved with that work in some meaningful way.

My personal guess on the second update is he paid for a reservation on an assembly line and is trying to recoup some of the money back from that (potentially offering a partial refund on assembly) - or he's trying to actually get a discount on the chips whose orders are retained (as suggested in previous posts).

[markm]

Lets exercise both sides of our imaginations shall we?

Maybe we'll find he is getting us not only refunds but also some kind of compensation.

Maybe he is balancing Yifu's ki or even Rei-ki (the reification of ki?!?!) and the re-balanced Yifu is going to realise that letting ASICminer out-do him in amount of coupons issued to make up for price-vs-ROI miscalculations just isn't competitive corporate behavior...

-MarkM-

[ibminer]

Lets exercise both sides of our imaginations shall we?

Maybe we'll find he is getting us not only refunds but also some kind of compensation.

Maybe he is balancing Yifu's ki or even Rei-ki (the reification of ki?!?!) and the re-balanced Yifu is going to realise that letting ASICminer out-do him in amount of coupons issued to make up for price-vs-ROI miscalculations just isn't competitive corporate behavior...

-MarkM-

He could be attempting to string everyone along in an effort to dissuade people from refunding, mentioning 'possible' commensation plans - while making no guarantees anything will be given to us from Yifu... hoping the chips arrive soon. If this is the case, I can't say I blame him - he's trying to preserve a company plan that had been setup for success and was somewhat smashed apart by delays from Avalon & Yifu.

He could be attempting to work out a super awesome deal with Yifu for next gen chips or extra chips that have been refunded from other group buys that Yifu is sitting on now... which would add some additional income into LSD if people assembled the extra chips with LSD, but maybe Yifu just wants the chips for his own mining farm?   Maybe he's just going to sell them on alibaba?  lol

He could be <enter random text here>

who knows...

Its all speculation, which I have also done... none of us know what is going on 'behind the scenes' (if anything). I do wish SB would post some of these conversations with Yifu and the content of them - so we can all be a part of the thought process, as SB mentioned in one of the recent posts.

I would like to personally thank those of you who have remained polite and courteous in spite of the current situation. We understand how disheartening this is, and appreciate you for thoroughly thinking this through with us to determine the best approach to take.

But we are not in this 'together', SB is running the show and we all just need to sit down and shut up.
 ^ I hate this mentality, but that seems to be the best/only course of action at the moment to avoid yelling at each other and whipping ourselves up in a frenzy

In the end, we all already gave our trust to SB a while ago - the chips are delayed and there is apparently no fully working klondike... it is interesting to speculate what would have happened if the chips did arrive on time, and the klondikes didn't work all of this time. Would everyone be ripping apart the BKK thread or speculating why SB isn't moving to another design?  

'Bitcoinland' is a mess      This is not a fun hobby at all   and DEFINITELY not good for our chi.       

The only thing I have to look forward to is attempting to mod an overpriced usb erupter this weekend, and I'm sure I'll destroy it  

I'm going to shut up and sit down now and hope for the best.

Good luck everyone  
**closes eyes**

[kostagr33k]

'Bitcoinland' is a mess     This is not a fun hobby at all   and DEFINITELY not good for our chi.   

I don't think thats the case, in my opinion. Bitcoin has always intrigued me and now with non-normal mining (moving away from GPU) I find it even more interesting.

I feel everything in life happens for a reason. We should all learn from whats happened (Avalon is not the only one we have learned from) and hopefully will come out ahead in the future. How many of us actually thought BTC would skyrocket like this and we are in a position to benefit from it? I feel Bitcoin in the long run could be amazing and Im just glad I got in on the early stages.

I hope to be able to reference this post in 5-10 years and see if my thoughts held up or not!


Anyway, we are all speculating at this point and I can only hope for the best. Theres nothing I (or any of us) can do about it and I trust Steamboat will get us what we need from Yifu, and who knows maybe it will be well worth the hassle we've been through!


kosta

[Unacceptable]

My point of view:

I need miners,any way shape or form,my calcs tell me I need 260GH per Petahash of network speed to achieve 1 BTC per day.

So,I'll keep whatever Steamboat can deliver   

Yes,they are late,due to NO fault of Steamboat.

These miners will still make me BTC in the long run.At 35 watts per unit (4.5GH),its still a great deal.

I have money invested in other miners as well & between all those miners the ROI will be made up on these 

I have great faith in Steamboat,I have talked to him by phone & conversed with him via PM,in the beginning,& will go with whatever decision he makes.

Hang in there Steamboat !!!!!!!!!! Keep moving forward !!!!!!!!!!!! 

[jesse11]

My point of view:

I need miners,any way shape or form,my calcs tell me I need 260GH per Petahash of network speed to achieve 1 BTC per day.

So,I'll keep whatever Steamboat can deliver    

Yes,they are late,due to NO fault of Steamboat.

These miners will still make me BTC in the long run.At 35 watts per unit (4.5GH),its still a great deal.

I have money invested in other miners as well & between all those miners the ROI will be made up on these  

I have great faith in Steamboat,I have talked to him by phone & conversed with him via PM,in the beginning,& will go with whatever decision he makes.

Hang in there Steamboat !!!!!!!!!! Keep moving forward !!!!!!!!!!!!  

My point of view also,  

        I received the e-mail to apply for a refund, I'm here to stay and receive what I bought from Steamboat. ASIC Chips and fully assembled Klondike K16 Boards(Fusion 16 Bitcoin Miners), firmware pre-installation, and stability testing. I'm here to Mine BTC and when I receive my miners I'll post Hashing Rates and BTC Mined!  

[ScaryHash]

My point of view:

I need miners,any way shape or form,my calcs tell me I need 260GH per Petahash of network speed to achieve 1 BTC per day.

So,I'll keep whatever Steamboat can deliver    

Yes,they are late,due to NO fault of Steamboat.

These miners will still make me BTC in the long run.At 35 watts per unit (4.5GH),its still a great deal.

I have money invested in other miners as well & between all those miners the ROI will be made up on these  

I have great faith in Steamboat,I have talked to him by phone & conversed with him via PM,in the beginning,& will go with whatever decision he makes.

Hang in there Steamboat !!!!!!!!!! Keep moving forward !!!!!!!!!!!!  

My point of view also,  

        I received the e-mail to apply for a refund, I'm here to stay and receive what I bought from Steamboat. ASIC Chips and fully assembled Klondike K16 Boards(Fusion 16 Bitcoin Miners), firmware pre-installation, and stability testing. I'm here to Mine BTC and when I receive my miners I'll post Hashing Rates and BTC Mined!  

I'm glad some other smart people have come to the same conclusions as I have, and have actually bothered to do some actual calculations, instead of jumping to conclusions.

[nightengale]

Sadly, your ability to mine still relies on Yifu getting the chips to Steamboat within a reasonable period of time. That's the part of the equation that I have absolutely no faith in, so I've put in for refunds. Hopefully Steamboat can work something out on the PCBs and assembly.

But the weakest link in the situation is Yifu, so as much faith as I have in Steamboat, Yifu can continue to ruin this for everyone for who knows how long.

[bystander]

Sadly, your ability to mine still relies on Yifu getting the chips to Steamboat within a reasonable period of time. That's the part of the equation that I have absolutely no faith in, so I've put in for refunds. Hopefully Steamboat can work something out on the PCBs and assembly.

But the weakest link in the situation is Yifu, so as much faith as I have in Steamboat, Yifu can continue to ruin this for everyone for who knows how long.

Agree, Yifu's failure is the root of all this and group buyers are taking the brunt of it.  Steamboat's willingness to come through for us is much appreciated.  Have no choice but to put in a chip refund request myself; I've refunded all of my buyers last week from an internal groupbuy.  While it's been rather sobering these last 12 weeks, it's quite a learning experience.

[driksson]

I will gladly buy these chips at an 80% discount in a few weeks when he has stock, and refunded all the group buys. I mean, 800k chips "in shipping" thats getting refunded now lots of them.
He will have to sell them.. Also for him to look at gen 2, and gen 3 and finalise avalon 3 mini production.
These chips will be very cheap soon im sure.. (one of the main reasons i want a refund, i wouldnt mind mining with them, but not at this stage and price per GH).

[intense]

So we get 95% back for the chips. Would I get my shipping costs and assembly costs refunded as well. I don't expect parts costs to be reimbursed if they've already been purchased (I'm in batch 4), but if they haven't been purchased yet would they also be refunded?

[driksson]

So we get 95% back for the chips. Would I get my shipping costs and assembly costs refunded as well. I don't expect parts costs to be reimbursed if they've already been purchased (I'm in batch 4), but if they haven't been purchased yet would they also be refunded?

I think, correct me if i'm wrong, steamboat is asking yifu for compensation.. And until he knows yifus standpoint fully, he has not decided how to do on assembly/hardware/shipping cost refunds. I'm not part of his assembly buy, but i'm thinking, shipping+assembly can be refunded and you can be owner of unassembled hardware in his warehouse without it being shipped to you?

[mtbitcoin]

Were there any updates on the refunds for shipping + Assembly?

Cheers

[ibminer]

Were there any updates on the refunds for shipping + Assembly?

Cheers

Not to my knowledge, and also no news release by Yifu as SB seemed to be expecting.

[alfabitcoin]

I just have read on SebastianJu group buy that one of his batch changed status to -Prepare shipping.

[ionstorm]

I just have read on SebastianJu group buy that one of his batch changed status to -Prepare shipping.

Wow great news, batch 1 & 2 from steamboat were ordered before SebastianJu's first batch!  Maybe we'll be mining next week!

[mtbitcoin]

I just have read on SebastianJu group buy that one of his batch changed status to -Prepare shipping.

Wow great news, batch 1 & 2 from steamboat were ordered before SebastianJu's first batch!  Maybe we'll be mining next week!

Steamboat, an update on the batch shipping (if any or none) would be great .... I understand that a lot of things are not within your direct control but at the very least some sort of communication ..

[silicont]

I need information regarding the potential refund of build expenses before I can make a decision on chip refunds.

[cardcomm]

I need information regarding the potential refund of build expenses before I can make a decision on chip refunds.

Yeah, that IS vital information. Hopefully part two of the update will be posted soon...

[Unacceptable]

My point of view:

I need miners,any way shape or form,my calcs tell me I need 260GH per Petahash of network speed to achieve 1 BTC per day.

So,I'll keep whatever Steamboat can deliver    

Yes,they are late,due to NO fault of Steamboat.

These miners will still make me BTC in the long run.At 35 watts per unit (4.5GH),its still a great deal.

I have money invested in other miners as well & between all those miners the ROI will be made up on these  

I have great faith in Steamboat,I have talked to him by phone & conversed with him via PM,in the beginning,& will go with whatever decision he makes.

Hang in there Steamboat !!!!!!!!!! Keep moving forward !!!!!!!!!!!!  

My point of view also,  

        I received the e-mail to apply for a refund, I'm here to stay and receive what I bought from Steamboat. ASIC Chips and fully assembled Klondike K16 Boards(Fusion 16 Bitcoin Miners), firmware pre-installation, and stability testing. I'm here to Mine BTC and when I receive my miners I'll post Hashing Rates and BTC Mined!  

I'm glad some other smart people have come to the same conclusions as I have, and have actually bothered to do some actual calculations, instead of jumping to conclusions.

I've been mining since June 2011,when GPU's first were able to mine & folks said "You'll never get ROI,too many mining,blah blah blah".

I invested $1000 in GPU's,mobo's & CPU's & started mining with 2GH,ended up with 4.6GH.Guess what I made almost $4000 with that setup  

So,here we go again!!!!!!!!!