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341  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Tenebrix, a CPU-friendly, GPU-hostile cryptocurrency on: October 03, 2011, 07:49:25 PM
Wouldn't you first investigate as to whether it was the employee or some third-party Evil h4x0r ? ~__^
342  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Tenebrix, a CPU-friendly, GPU-hostile cryptocurrency on: October 03, 2011, 07:43:59 PM
Well, if he does it right, he can actually claim that it was done by a trojan Wink
343  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Tenebrix, a CPU-friendly, GPU-hostile cryptocurrency on: October 03, 2011, 07:26:02 PM
With expenses of zero, your profit is INFINIIITEEE! Cheesy
344  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Announce] Fairbrix relaunched! on: October 03, 2011, 06:54:41 PM
Frankly, I think that FRX taking a different approach makes for more interesting experiment, but that does not necessarily mean a more viable cryptocoin.
345  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Tenebrix, a CPU-friendly, GPU-hostile cryptocurrency on: October 03, 2011, 06:52:42 PM
http://ark.intel.com/products/52224

Has hyper-threading, so up to 4, but I would advise no more than 3 unless it is a dedicated TBX mining station.
346  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Do not invest in alternate cryptocurrencies or you will lose money! on: October 03, 2011, 06:51:17 PM
Not impossible, and way worth it due to sheer image bonus. The Darkside Transaction Mixer...mmmmmm... tastes like candy.
347  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANNOUNCE, short one] Alt-currency Tenebrix now also traded on: October 03, 2011, 06:46:50 PM
Please roll this laundry service ASAP because that is what we need to get the value high enough etc. !!! Cannot wait for tenebrix to reach 100 usd !!


I am currently standing by for some expert feedback, then, should it turn out to be in the "can be done with crypto already used in x-coins" range, I will publish a very general raw description for people to poke holes in. After that, I will need some code power

BTW, the laundry will be opensource, so people who so desire will be able to roll a BTC one (though of course, they won't have a huge-arse buffer to guarantee "history unbinding")
348  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANNOUNCE, short one] Alt-currency Tenebrix now also traded on: October 03, 2011, 06:44:30 PM
All of the reasons to do tenebrix apply to fairbrix and solidcoin2.  So, why get on a chain with 6 years worth of mining awarded to one person?  I'm positive bitcoin wouldn't be where it is today had Satoshi simply given himself a six year bonus upfront.

Well, did Satoshi intend to launch a huge transaction-mixer ?

Also, he didn't give it to himself upfront but got it nonetheless - not that anyone should give a fuck because unless he's batshit loco, he has a vested interest in not crashing BTC market.

Also, I'm unconvinced the algorithm is not viable on a GPU.  It seems to scale with clock rate of my CPU and number of GPUs.  Just like a normal bitcoin miner.  I'll look further this weekend but first impression is it should run well enough on GPU -- it's just that nobody has ported the C code to OpenCL yet.

Dear sweet Cthulhu in the sea, we have a whole thread about how does TBX behave on GPUs in the alt. forum.
Please discuss it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=45849.0
349  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANNOUNCE, short one] Alt-currency Tenebrix now also traded on: October 03, 2011, 06:39:56 PM
I am a graphic designer, not a cop or a judge, so I cannot assess the legality of activities of my future service's users, especially relative to laws of jurisdictions I have never been to, and never will.

I do however think that the unique position of launching a "neo-coin" grants one the ability to procure a huge mass of coins and forever lock them in a huge "relatively clean coin buffer" for just such a service, and operate said service in a manner that nominally, that mass of coins remains out of market proper forever.
Such set-up would allow the "laundry" to guarantee the client that they will never receive "their own" coins from the service, that the coins they get will always have a history completely unbound from their preceding activities.

I believe opportunity for creation of such a service to be unique and far more worthy than "premining a reasonabl-ish amount and/or leveraging first-adopter privilege, then cashing out"

P.S.:
Also, good sir, I can handle being accused of various unwholesome things - my hide is thick, but by insinuating that I am "normal people", you have insulted me greatly.
350  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANNOUNCE, short one] Alt-currency Tenebrix now also traded on: October 03, 2011, 06:25:27 PM
Quote from: Lolcust
P.S.:
Also, monopolization (or at least, stronger oligopolization) of supply is virtually guaranteed to lead to increase in per-coin price.

So you are looking to cash out soon I assume ?

No.

I intend to start a huge abstract-quasi-value-token "laundry" (aka Geist and Brix Transaction History Exchange Society) , which would be quite unprecedented at this scale. I would also like to implement it in a fairly innovative manner, but that I can't say much about yet (Unlike certain someone, I only make claims I know for certain to be at least theoretically possible)



351  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Do not invest in alternate cryptocurrencies or you will lose money! on: October 03, 2011, 06:20:31 PM
Personally, I would think that for your coins the best long term plan is to plan setting up your laundries either on the orbit or on the visible side of the moon.

Why not the dark side of the moon ? Methinks that getting comm signals there is not impossible ,and it's so much more stylish ^__^

I'll keep visible side of the moon for ads.
352  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANNOUNCE, short one] Alt-currency Tenebrix now also traded on: October 03, 2011, 06:16:17 PM
if anything, you can run TBX on the CPU of your GPU-mining rig at idle priority, thus mining both TBX and any GPU-coin at the same time. TBX literally puts a miner in your miner so you can mine while you mine.

Great idea -- good thing I opted for a Athlon 2 instead of a Sempron in my mining rig :-D

Maybe I should put "we put a miner in your miner so you can mine while you mine" somewhere on the site ?

I was just alluding to a small money supply leading to deflation.  I assume deflation to be a good thing, but I suppose some would disagree.

The thing with x-flation arguments in bitcoin/altcoins is that what (would eventually happen) to BTC isn't real deflation, and isn't even "monetary" deflation in the way it usually happened in history.

Also, classical economic arguments simply cannot apply because bit-coinomy (and x-coinomy) isn't a proper "autonomous" State economy, but is a kind of thing that dwells inside State economies and "in places between them".

BTW, since the amount of criticism I receive for removing the upper coin generation limits is about twice the amount I receive for premine (I just on principle no longer read PMs and emails that have words inflation/deflation in them because quite frankly I feel like I'm trying to generate proof of work based on re-iteration of same arguments), I am thinking of tweaking TBX and GEG in a manner that it will have an additional "pseudo-deflationary" factor without cutting miner subsidies (principles are principles)

P.S.:
Also, monopolization (or at least, stronger oligopolization) of supply is virtually guaranteed to lead to increase in per-coin price irrespective of whether there is an upper "production ceiling" or not
353  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: CPU Mining - Who will emerge Dominant? on: October 03, 2011, 05:59:09 PM
Guys, could someone repost that ^^^ to some 1337 h4x0r forum ?
354  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANNOUNCE, short one] Alt-currency Tenebrix now also traded on: October 03, 2011, 05:37:41 PM
The way Tenebrix is set up, wouldn't the only big players in the mining sector be those that could afford super-specialized hardware?  Or am I understanding this the opposite of its intention -- that the only real mining hardware supported in Tenebrix is commonplace CPUs?

No, you're somewhat thinking on a price-abstracted level, that's the "pwoblem"

Let's see... Imagine a Tenebrix specialized mining device that costs Y dollars (just making custom gadgetry, not to consider the R&D costs) and outperforms, let's say, an i7-based rig by a factor of 100.

However, an i7 rig costs 0.0001Y. Thus, ceteris paribus, the dude with Specialized Mining Device would be inferior since his box is so damn expensive.

CPUs are cheap due to economies of scales involved in their production, which imposes a  combination of maximum price / minimum Performance Increase Factor any other device must have to compete.

So far, there is only family of semi-specialized gadgetry that might have the "right" combination of price and performance  that hypothetically might make them a bit better at TBX that CPUs are APUs which are basically "angry CPUs on horse  GPU steroids".

Also, you may accuse me of any number of things, but "miner hostility is not one of them"  - if anything, you can run TBX on the CPU of your GPU-mining rig at idle priority, thus mining both TBX and any GPU-coin at the same time. TBX literally puts a miner in your miner so you can mine while you mine.


Because the more proprietary and costly hardware becomes for effective mining, the more the larger percentage of mining will fall into the hands of few people which equates to eventual monopoly or central control.

See above

Also, consider this - CPUs GPUs and FPGAs all have uses outside mining TBX so should you quit mining, you can sell them.

Dedicated custom-designed TBX cruncher will be almost useless at anything else, making economic prospects of dedicated TBX mining devices even more unsound.

If you keep the hardware selection rather wide (as it is with Bitcoin), it is a good idea IMO to severely limit the total coin supply -- this seems to me to be in place to directly address the problem of eventual monopoly over the network.  I think the idea is that by the time any entity gets the necessary hardware organized for monopolization, all the coins will be in circulation and then currency holders will simply subdivide and lower costs of goods / services.  This is where deflation comes in?

I think you confuse problem of monopolization of coin supply (and bitcoin supply is already oligopolistic, with about 5-7 pools running all the show) and the issue of (not really sorta-kinda) deflation which is another can of worms.

Actually it shouldn't matter if someone figures out how to use FPGAs or GPUs to mine tenebrix. The faster the network goes, the higher the difficulty, unless someone fairbrixes tenebrix, haha.

The appeal of TBX is that you are likely to be able to get quite some by using the spare cycles your mining rig is just wasting while you mine other coins, your employer's equipment which is far more likely to be CPU-dominated and not GPU-dominated, and your PS-3 which might be somewhere around a high-end Phenom CPU in terms of Tenebrix prowess.

And yes, TBX adoption is intended to be sperad-out among a greater number of smaller, CPU-loving devices, and not relatively rare and expensive GPU-centric machines or some lab-borne exotica.

Fortunately, current state of affair is that the majority of specialized TBX equipment would be economically unsound.
355  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FAIRBRIX - Announcement - CPU friendly - GPU hostile - Tiny premine on: October 03, 2011, 05:15:36 PM
The current leading theory appears to be "EC strike" by an unknown hacker.
356  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Zortiflex: a new alternate cryptocurrency that will make you rich! on: October 03, 2011, 05:02:32 PM
Gotta disagree with you there.
Namecoin, ixcoin, i0coin, SC,  and tenebrix have all made me money.
It's more of a question of how long to invest in them.


Half the time someone hasn't even bothered to spend 5 minutes on the code to change all the name/comments/file references from "bitcoin" to "scamcoin".

Okay, okay, files will be renamed in next release, I pwomis !


They have all been made to make someone money and/or make an illegal (in many countries) laundering service.

Now, with all due respect, this is just FUD / slightly dramatic advertising (whichever you like more, though something can be both ~__^)

There is currently no jurisdiction that would recognize x-coins and/or WoW gold and/or exotic postage stamps as valid money, and there is not a single case where an operator of a "ephemeral un-backed token transaction mixing system" was convicted (FFS, bitcoinlaundry is run by an American in the open, IIRC, so what?)

So calling it a "laundry" is the same as calling bicoins "money" - a fairly inaccurate oversimplification done to ease communication.
 
357  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Possible 51% Attack on fairbrix (fbx) on: October 03, 2011, 04:30:14 PM
Let's rename fairbrix into Hax since a hacker now controls the biggest stash (and possibly still has quite a share in net performance)

BTW, that would give the rebranded fairbrix a ready-made mascot

358  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Tenebrix, a CPU-friendly, GPU-hostile cryptocurrency on: October 03, 2011, 04:28:04 PM
Well, should the need arise, TBX could make a PoW "update" + "anti-blockspam" at nHeight > x, right ?

Also, I'd feel bad about throwing out PS 3 hobbyists completely (I'd be quite content with making dedicated PS3 farms comparatively uncompetitive while leaving opportunistic gamers in) Wink
359  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Tenebrix, a CPU-friendly, GPU-hostile cryptocurrency on: October 03, 2011, 04:04:37 PM
Good doggie.

Now play dead.

Good puppet master.

Now go pump and dump them brix !!! Wonder why TBX price is so low now  Roll Eyes

On another note, what about our genius' revelation ? BitcoinExpress said that virtually all these CPU only currencies can easily be made into GPU currencies by IE9 hardware accelerator !? How true is that for Tenebrix ?

If that's the case they should release this for everyone to use.

The script source code is here: http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/GRAY/Crypt-Scrypt-0.05/src/src/lib/crypto/crypto_scrypt-sse.c

But...  this algorithm is supposed to be memory-hard but only takes 7MB of RAM on my system? (minerd.exe)  But maybe memory-hard in this instance refers to cache size on the CPU?  GPUs are based around something requiring large amounts of sequential memory access, and if the data is not constantly being reused but instead overwritten GPU computing might be inefficient.  An easy way of destroying GPU efficiency is just to make an algorithm require it to access memory randomly instead of sequentially.

It should be pointed out that there is nothing impossible in doing  mining through a browser app, irrespective of whether that is cpu or gpu mining, and that browser-mining does not itself make scrypt GPU-friendly

(but it does bring up an interesting question as to possibility for mining-enabled "rich content" banners that bring you both ad-money and coinsez)

as to TBX memhardness, this is relevant https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=45849.0
360  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Possible 51% Attack on fairbrix (fbx) on: October 03, 2011, 03:55:58 PM
Thank you for looking into this.  From what you're saying, it doesn't look like different build conflicting with each other, but rather an intentional fork.

Do you believe that another relaunch, this time with proper announcements and builds for everyone, would crack the nut against potential attackers?  Or is this proof that new chains are so subject to attack that it just isn't worth it?
Enough relaunches.
The chain is doing ok now and the attacker has got a vested interest in playing it easy if he doesn't want to loose the benefit of his loot. I would even expect that he keeps mining with enough power to protect the chain so as to make sure that his coins make it to the next stage.
It's like if this chain started with 30k coins premined. Irritating but not overly so. That is still way under the 7M+ in Tenebrix.

While I don't care much either way (all them fricks my lappie mined are gone in both cases) the situation of "explicit malicious agent has about 30 000" and situation of  "a dude who does alt-chains for fun and a slightly pie-esque laundry project has about 7 mils" is different in more ways than just the numbers.
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