Morici v Hashfast Technologies
Case5:14-cv-00087

http://198.27.67.106/hashfast.pdf

A lot of these doom and gloom 'mining is the devil' approaches fail to take into consideration what is happening right now.  In the last two hours BTC has shed %20 of it's value...TWENTY PERCENT people!
For a retail investor who has say 5-10k to work with this is a nightmare.  Imagine two people who began their BTC investment today.  One guy bought 8k worth of hardware and started and the other one bought
7BTC.  Now of course no investment is judged by what happens in such a small time frame but that having been said...

Which one of those two people do you think is having a worse day?
Yes, I know there are plenty of days where it runs the exact opposite.  But even on those days the guy mining can watch his existing and new BTC go up too!

I am still really new here and learning but from what I have seen there is a negative bias towards mining that seems to have it's own agenda.
JMO.

+1, what Kendog said.

After a little fiddling, you will be very happy.

Respectfully, you've been just as guilty of that. It's been a very eye opening thread, to say the least.

I have no dog in this fight, just wish there could be some sort of dialogue..."hey, this is what you've done wrong, and here is the evidence" and counters of "We haven't been perfect, and here's how we're working to improve."

Name calling doesn't restore BTC or help reputations.

If I was zumzero I would be banned. Why the hell do you think I am zumzero when I've been posting on here for 4 months? Is everybody zumzero?

You are a fool. Admin has access to my ISP address and zumzeros, mine has remained the same for 4 months, zumzero lives in another part of the country to me and his IP is banned. Do you get that? Too much for your little brain crumbs?

Tell us how many weeks you think are in a year again, last time you worked it out to be 48 didn't you.

Well, I just read through all 27 pages of this disaster of a thread.

Can someone take the time to distill exactly what the "scam" is?

I get that they delayed products a long time and had questionable refund practices during the delay, but is that it? Is there something wrong with the products themselves?

So, they possibly could have seen this opportunity as a marketing move more so than anything else? "Lets do it, we will get a lot of great publicity even if it is total BS."

That would require them to actually own as much hash rate they're selling.  That's asking quite a lot from "cloud mining" services.

The same folks would really be pissed off if they learnt that while at Inside Bitcoins (LV) I told Josh excellent talk and later congratulated him/BFL for filling all the back-orders.

A clear distinction in Tom's case is that there weren't absolutely unambiguous statements made to customers that any refunds would be the full amount of Bitcoin paid.  In the case of HastFast case people (thought they) learned from bASIC and asked for, and received, clarification on this point. HF had learned too, and made all the right promises— full refunds of the amounts paid, investor funded, MPP to cover reasonable increases in difficulty, a named professional design time, etc.

Perhaps the mistake that people keep making isn't that they're failing to as a particular question or sniff out a particular red-flag. Perhaps the problem is just trusting at all for something this substantial when failure leaves the defaulting party holding all the cards (and all the coin).

Next time someone shows up asking for pre-orders with promises development paid by investors not pre-orders and full Bitcoin refunds we should demand using a trustless multisig escrow in the blockchain to eliminate the risk of a failure to make good on the promises.

There is clearly a PATTERN.

If you can't moderate based on that what good is it having moderation.

There is a concerted effort to defame people and lie and having had to report more than 20 to 30 of these alone from Inaba on my reputation at what point does a sanction get implemented? I get you are busy and have a life and all but at some point you know what is happening here right. I am just one person that has been lied about continuously by the "pro"BFL types and Inaba himself.

What can you do? Warn em. Ban em. Right? It isn't about freedom of speech or openness it about people purposefully intending to derail every thread that negatively reflects the REALITY of the BFL situation. At some point you have to be an honest arbiter in this do you not?

The future of others is also the future of Bitcoin.

If small independent miners keep losing their shirts on deals like this we'll end up in a case where only huge consolidated operations with captive manufacturing will be profitable. The end result would be an enormous centralization of hash-power which would undermine the security assumptions in Bitcoin, and result in the ultimate failure of the cryptocurrency... which wouldn't be in the interest of anyone currently mining or holding coins.

Besides, the future actions of others may include my friends and future friends. Not everything is about making a profit denominated in coins or dollars.

"I'd be treated with more respect if I paid 18K at a car dealership." isn't a thread created by BFL pitching their ASIC.

The other is though, heck if I remember why it was moved— and it was _probably_ me that did it, as I think I've done most of the thread moves in the form. If it was it might have been because by the end of it was totally offtopic and I wanted people to start new ones, or it could have just been a mistake.  I'll ask that it be moved back.

A lot of both the PRO and ANTI BFL people behaved in ways that made me think they were double-agents really shilling for the opposite side. I've seldom seen behavior so reprehensible.

Hm? Link me to some of them.

You are off by orders of magnitude. AMD sells less than 1M high end (game grade) videocards per quarter. And thats AMD, consider the bazillion OEM's that sell cards that are price competitive, yet are much lower volume, probably in same ballpark if not below some bitcoin asic manufacturers 6 months from here. Sure, AMD and nVidia will have a volume pricing advantage, but its not going to matter for this comparison, and its not going to be anywhere near a factor 2x.


Packaging is priced per ball typically. The bitcoin asics arent that high pin count, there is no way it would cost more than $10 per chip. More likely $2-5 in volume. FWIW, I calculated using $10 in packaging cost, though I think $2 is probably closer once they achieve volume's of 100K's.

As for MCM's. If it were more expensive to package 4 dies in a chip than doing 4 chips, why would they?  You might argue for watercooling that the cooling is significantly cheaper, but even KnC is using MCM's with off the shelve air cooling.


Its not going to suck for everyone all the time, which is what matters. And yield shouldnt be a problem, considering these chips have dozens of "cores" that can be disabled if defective. They should achieve very near 100% yield if you allow a few bad cores per chip. Anyway, I assumed 90% yields, which is probably low for these chips.


Monarch doesnt have a PSU. SHould miners include that in their ROI calculation? Yeah. WIll they? Doubtful.  Many still have piles of PSU's. And even if you dont, a PSU doesnt become worthless after one year or when mining is no longer profitable. As for case, look at KnC. Just 2 sheets of plied aluminum. Cant cost more than $10 in volume, if that. You can buy full ATX cases with fans for that much.

BTW, chip cooling is included in that BOM. In fact, its about the most expensive part of the videocard.


I dont think so.


Yes there has to be a profit margin to pay the overhead. Im calculating BOM. In most businesses a 10% margin is what it takes to operate. Put it at 20% if you want. But keep in mind, once difficulty has gone up that much that market prices approach marginal cost, the alternative for those asic vendors is shutting their doors.


Lets check back in 24 months.