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hat bitfinex irgendwas mit substanz veröffentlicht ?
adressen der gehackten wallets ?
die nummer des reports bei pilizei? damit man mal was nachprüfen kann?
ihr argument für den haircut ist ja, dass bei einem konkurs ja auch alle die zur zeit coins dort haben, haften und damit in die konkursmasse fallen.
Und sie daher auch mit einem 36% cut rechnen müssen.
Jetzt wäre es natürlich nett und fair
die zahlen offenzulegen. Gibts da was ?
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In Reply:
People always bailout out other people!
This is a fundamental certainty, which makes human existence possible.
You cannot have children or raise offspring without complete acceptance of the fundamental principle of bailing out people.
I can tell, if, you are making that argument you going to be terrible father or mother!
means ? you teach your kids that bail out is the way to go ? and to acept it ? so if your kids do a crime or fail you bail them out ? and not let them deal with consequences ? |
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Not really,
"The DAO" are the Party, who requested the Fork in Ethereum Blockchain from the Ethereum Foundation.
They are fully and completely obligated to operate in manner that boosts the price of the forked blockchain.
Because, they are Party who needed the forked blockchain and they have to ensure that the forked blockchain is commercially successful.
i guess the question wasnt here is the fork rightful or not . the question is by training the dao with the white attack or black attack . was it a theft like theDao said and the foundation said too. and if so is it still theft on the etc chain? can the originaly holder of the dao demand there stolen ether back now? from the white hat attackers that was asked . |
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------------------------------------------------------------------- The DAO mandate------------------------------------------------------- The DAO mandate: is to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" price and to maximise the valuation of ETH price. This gives the authority to people running "The DAO" to take actions that increase the valuation of the tokens and ETH. Under, this latter mandate, the recovery of obsolete unsupported ETC can be done, so long as the ETC is disposed off, in order to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" and ETH. Of course, people will disagree with this, but it is August and I'm sure everyone not on holiday is pretty bored  Your point A) The DAO is to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" price and to maximise the valuation of ETH price. Yes - But on the old chain or the new chain? Original DAO was on the Ethereum Classic chain. The DAO had the function of rewarding investors of the DAO. Maximisation of investors funds involve redistributing ETC to all DAO holders. Your point B) Under, this latter mandate, the recovery of obsolete unsupported ETC can be done, so long as the ETC is disposed off, in order to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" and ETH. Disposing ETC would result in scarcity of the coins on the ETC chain. This would not maximise the valuation of ETH however maximise the valuation of ETC. id guess what aplys for the black hat attack aplys for the white hat attack too? http://www.coindesk.com/sue-dao-hacker/ |
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Zum zweiten: Ich habe das Wort WETTE gelesen  --> Bedingungen??? 1. Wette: btc-e.com wird mindestens einmal gehackt bis 01.01.2018 (18:00 UTC). JA oder NEIN? Standpunkt frei wählbar. Einsatz bis zu 0,5 BTC. 2. Wette: wir haben beim Bitcoin preis ein neues ATH bis 01.01.2017 (17:00 UTC). JA oder NEIN? Standpunkt frei wählbar. Einsatz bis zu 0,5 BTC. bei beiden wetten 2-of-3 (1 Mediator) oder 2-of-4 (2 Mediatoren) muti-sig bitte. EDIT: ich kann bitmixer.io wirklich empfehlen. gerade wieder selber verwendet. auch die berechnung wie viel auf der zieladresse nun wirklich ankommt wenn man einen bestimmten betrag auf die mixadresse sendet funktioniert. EDIT2: ich möchte bitcoins mit bargeld (frisch aus bankomat) kaufen. welche möglichkeiten habe ich in D? wie komme ich an bitcoins mit bargeld ran? soll zur information und weiterer verbreitung in D dienen.Okidoki, bei #1 mache ich nicht mit. Bei #2 bin ich mit 0,1 BTC dabei und wette gegen ein neues ATH Zu deinem EDIT2 --> Ich würde mal hier ein paar Leute fragen und anschreiben, dann kommst du sicher an BTC gegen Bargeld. BTW, darf ich https://www.bitcoinbon.at empfehlen. Bargeld | Tabaktrafik in AT = BTCtrafik in austria stimmt habe ich selbst schon gemacht hat aber ein tageslimit von 500 euro sowie ich mich erinner bekommst einen bon und kannst die dann online auf dein wallet buchen lassen aber wie gesagt nur 500 euro pro tag oder so |
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a vew thoughts i have on the case too:
i know that the ethereum foundation would like to see this as a inside case, which is or was intented to be solved in the crypto world. words like we are govering, code is law and so on. we show the world we deal with our case ourselfs.
but as the past in crypto showed the law of the real world does not see it like that. gox ...... if something is a theft the law enforcment steps in.
and befor the fork in the rush the white hat attacker did exactly what the black hat one did.
they call the first attack theft . if it was theft ( delema of code is law on the dao) the second one is also theft.
now the name of the white hat one is public.
there has to be only one prefork DAO holder who sues or reports . then the ethereum devs involved will have a big problem
its not like one just took a few dollars. its millions.
i would have thought the white hat attackers "goodies" would announce what they plan for the dao ETc. but no word so far.
the ethereum prefork thought with rolling back all will be solved. and evidence will be gone. but ETC is alive.
then a friend said some of the things that happened after the fork. leaks of skype conversations on the ether channel. show at least the need for investigation. market manipulation.
was it intented ? posts that leading people of "now ETH" whos statements can and did impact the price, where followed by lines in the skype leak, "got free ETC, go and sell them . already did. that will crash ETC ". i am not sure if they were just kidding but an investigation will for sure show.
i dont know that much about market law but some said that might be not legal . even if they didnt intent to
but profited.
i dont know
but it will for sure be interesting to see what will happen next
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the situation now is:
ETC didnt do the roll back. what was called a theft, by the first black hat attacker ,is the same mechanism as the white hat one.
if the code is law as they dao creators say, the etc of both attacks belong to the attackers.
now the white hat attackers said we do this not to keep them we are the " goodies" we are reversing just wrongful duing.
like you say its interesting what this guys do now with it.
and its interesting to see what the original dao holders will do ?
the fork was done to deal with it once and for ever. but with the failed fork now and the 2 chains the problem is still there.
it has to be solved on the ETC chain.
let say one of the original DAO holders sue them and they know a name of the white hat attackers they have i guess a good chance to win this.
or not . becouse the code alowed it and it was on the dao page .code is lawl.
its realy an interesting case
and if one dao holder reports it might be a legal problem too.
I also want to know how the DAO Ethereum can be returned to the original DAO holders. Will that be dumped? Alex Van de Sande didnt do a statement on this as far as i know. but i guess he is the one to ask ..... this is also a interesting link on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4w9wo2/please_approve_my_operation_vbuterin_signed/but i dont know if its comfirmed or just fake. but every ETC holder and eth devs do hold ETC can dump. will they do it ? hmmm maybe. but if they do they help ETC . a coin stays alive if you trade it . sell or buy doesnt matter. for every seller there is a buyer. visa versa |
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Well, and eth still finish?
No, and with big security fail.
Now, devs working on etc to make a safe blockchain.
And eth unfinish too, forked, with hater users like u.
Your missing the point...this coin called etc is incomplete...so its is far from classic! lol pumpy every coin is incomplete. ask a dev. lol |
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Let me get this quite straight before I have a laugh attack: You want a lot of people, ETC investors all, to sign a "petition" so the ETH hackers who stole the ETC will return what they stole? Do you even realize how funny that is? Do you think a few hundred -or thousand, or hundred of thousand- signatures will make them to reconsider and become good guys all of a sudden --assuming they are not fully convinced they have been just smarter than you and the other victims? OK, after almost getting sick of laughing so hard, thanks for showing me that naivety still exists... to call it by it most innocent name, of course. W.O.W... Wrong - I want DAO holders to sign the petition which basically outlines that members of the Ethereum white hat hacker team should return the 7.2 million ETC back to DAO Investors. The ETC funds held by them is currently worth 18 million dollars and this issue isn't being brought to light. What are they planning to do with it? Is it not that it is also theirs? The white hackers only did a service to transfer the funds so that the attacker cannot get them. Now that it is all over they want it back. Do you think they still have the right to claim what is on the old chain even though they were bailed out in the fork? They can double everything? I am now confused. If they don't present a clear point of view people would just think they are planning to use them for themselves or something. Is it not there funds in the first place? Being DAO holders they are eligible to have a share of the ETH stored in the DAO. Please explain why you think otherwise because I might have missed something. the fork was done with the thought that the second chain would die fast but it is still alive. on the "befor fork chain" the "white hat attacker " ,one name is known publicly its a memeber of the ethereum foundation, used the same way to drain the ether of the dao contract out of it . to keep it save for the holders. so no criminal could take them. the situation now is: ETC didnt do the roll back. what was called a theft, by the first black hat attacker ,is the same mechanism as the white hat one. if the code is law as they dao creators say, the etc of both attacks belong to the attackers. now the white hat attackers said we do this not to keep them we are the " goodies" we are reversing just wrongful duing. like you say its interesting what this guys do now with it. and its interesting to see what the original dao holders will do ? the fork was done to deal with it once and for ever. but with the failed fork now and the 2 chains the problem is still there. it has to be solved on the ETC chain. let say one of the original DAO holders sue them and they know a name of the white hat attackers they have i guess a good chance to win this. or not . becouse the code alowed it and it was on the dao page .code is lawl. its realy an interesting case and if one dao holder reports it might be a legal problem too. |
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question: why do the miners still mine ETH? with that diff bomp on the chain. did the ethereum team tell of it. befor they did that ? i didnt know of it. well and pos means there are no more miners needed ? right? are miners now careful ? with investing ? i watched that video https://youtu.be/OGGW9ozE-ys?list=PLPQwGV1aLnTs1Ct0aZR7nKNaHHM8WAeAZand it seems to me that the ETH guys say for them it doesnt matter what or whom they kick off the ship. as long as they get to success. i mean the one guy sounded like no matter what, we change it. rules , principles ........ and so on. fork it ... thats very scary for a to be world computer they say consensus. but if its a world computer and every one on earth will or shall be part of it it must be demorcatic it cant be dictatoric. otherwise it leads to slavery of the masses. how about a young man in africas bush does he have a voice in this worldcomputer voting ? or only the big holders of ETH ? edit: i found the tweet it was martin köppelmann in the show : and he tweeted this: https://twitter.com/koeppelmann/status/760997201048850432so he thinks devs dont need the miners ? |
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You do realize that the "replay theft" (where did you get the 7.5m figure?) was a combination of the hasty hardfork and the ineptitude of some exchanges and/or users? Is ETH going to roll that back too? Because that's what you seem to be suggesting. ETC doesn't care, but ETH the crime-fighting network does, so they fork again now?
plus the ETH fork did not report the thief , did nothing to find him/she, didnt investigate who was it. and i guess on the ETH forked chain all evidence of the theft is gone. According to ETC proponents, 1) there was no "thief" 2) there was no "theft" because "code is law" and now the hacker is the rightful owner of his (ETC) tokens. So there is no reason to investigate according to ETC folks (hacker might be one of them). BTW: Have those ETH bastards even magically erased all that evidence of non theft from the pre fork chain? BTW2: You cannot have your cake and eat it... sorry i should have said so called thief , so called theft, becoue were i live a person is innocent till proven guilty. the fork was selfjustic. no jury , no fakts on the table , no investigation. |
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Anyone have the link to the Ethereum Classic slack channel? If there is one, it would also be helpful to update the OP to include that link under the community links section.  EDIT: found it on the website, here it is for anyone wondering: https://ethereumclassic.herokuapp.comI joined this earlier today. 500+ members, all the ETC heavyweights are there plotting and scheming in plain public view. Go join them. Available now: ETC Block Explorer at http://gastracker.io/
I'm now on redit as -greenuser- Slack tomorrow. Love the artwork Charles Warm wishes Paula really...who? when? and finally how? what if i said im etc dev, would everyone be ok with that  ....did you guys vote on your new leaders or can anyone add code to etc and you will all add it? do you all share the same vision as any new dev? if not will you fork to a new coin..perhaps digital ethereum...DETH lol hi pumpy the fork thing to change the past is the ETH thing. to fork for a technikal reason to fix a bug is all the other coins thing. |
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Yelp, I'd agree, because no-one is going to want to build a business around a Network that does not care about criminal activity.
lol Money doesn't care about criminal activity! Money is Neutral with N like in Nature. Does Nature care about criminal activities? If Money isn't neutral that is not Money but coupons, vouchers, stamps, checks, tickets, bonds, certificates, notes, tokens... everything you want, but not Money! Money should account for everything that is in the economy and certainly crime is a part of every economy. There are many efficient ways to fight crime but destroying money isn't one of them because you'll make more harm than good! A bitcoin in the hand of a criminal has same purchasing power like other bitcoins. Well, that is money! Yeah, Bitcoin was 1st crypto coin - there was no choice. Now, business minded people can pick from up to 300 Alts Coins and when presented with this kind of choice? Business minded people will not build a business on a Network, which does not care about criminal activity. Ethereum has set a new "Gold Standard", by taking measures to prove to business minded people, that they won't passively accept criminal activity on the Network. this is bs immutability would be gold standard what biz wants to run on a chain that can be rolled back and with a roll back be on risk that your biz data gets setback to beginning ? happend to all the child daos they call it now colaterals some got there investment back but others the colaterals have to fear if or if not they get there invest back not becouse of the attacker no they got on risk with it becouse of the fork. and the fork didnt do good to all of us Quite wrong! Businesses spend huge amounts of money to ensure they avoid being the victims of criminal activity. A Network, that does care about criminal activity, is a Network no-one will want to build a business on. ETC statistics of not caring about criminal activity are: 1) DAO theft of 3.5 million coins, they don't care about it on the ETC Network. 2) Replay theft of 7.5 million coins, they don't care about it on the ETC Network. You do realize that the "replay theft" (where did you get the 7.5m figure?) was a combination of the hasty hardfork and the ineptitude of some exchanges and/or users? Is ETH going to roll that back too? Because that's what you seem to be suggesting. ETC doesn't care, but ETH the crime-fighting network does, so they fork again now? plus the ETH fork did not report the thief , did nothing to find him/she, didnt investigate who was it. and i guess on the ETH forked chain all evidence of the theft is gone. |
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i just watched this show: https://youtu.be/OGGW9ozE-ys?list=PLPQwGV1aLnTs1Ct0aZR7nKNaHHM8WAeAZand while watching it i get the impression that ETH will not run by ethical standards one of the eth guys said they will fork any time they think its nesseary and the mayority rules but this fork now showed its the mayority of power not the mayority of people. etc has a lot of open quetions. every one can see that. but then etc is just a couple of weeks old. sort of abondoned from its father and familie suddenly . not even ment to stay alive. i think with time a lot of devs will see the options etc gives first pow vs pos same chain that will be interesting or vote system for me personaly eth acts brutal sort of if you are not with us you are against us |
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Quite wrong!
Businesses spend huge amounts of money to ensure they avoid being the victims of criminal activity.
A Network, that does care about criminal activity, is a Network no-one will want to build a business on.
ETC statistics of not caring about criminal activity are:
1) DAO theft of 3.5 million coins, they don't care about it on the ETC Network.
2) Replay theft of 7.5 million coins, they don't care about it on the ETC Network. There has been over a billion dollars of theft in the Bitcoin ecosystem. When are the care police going to show up there? Should I hold my breath? Last years BTC's price slumped below $173 dollars. Clearly, not caring about criminal activity, has and does wipe Billions of dollars off a crypto currencies Market Capitalisation. wake up crime will always harm here and there eth ´s fork did not change that but payed the to big to fail there investment back but integrity has value |
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Yelp, I'd agree, because no-one is going to want to build a business around a Network that does not care about criminal activity.
lol Money doesn't care about criminal activity! Money is Neutral with N like in Nature. Does Nature care about criminal activities? If Money isn't neutral that is not Money but coupons, vouchers, stamps, checks, tickets, bonds, certificates, notes, tokens... everything you want, but not Money! Money should account for everything that is in the economy and certainly crime is a part of every economy. There are many efficient ways to fight crime but destroying money isn't one of them because you'll make more harm than good! A bitcoin in the hand of a criminal has same purchasing power like other bitcoins. Well, that is money! Yeah, Bitcoin was 1st crypto coin - there was no choice. Now, business minded people can pick from up to 300 Alts Coins and when presented with this kind of choice? Business minded people will not build a business on a Network, which does not care about criminal activity. Ethereum has set a new "Gold Standard", by taking measures to prove to business minded people, that they won't passively accept criminal activity on the Network. this is bs immutability would be gold standard what biz wants to run on a chain that can be rolled back and with a roll back be on risk that your biz data gets setback to beginning ? happend to all the child daos they call it now colaterals some got there investment back but others the colaterals have to fear if or if not they get there invest back not becouse of the attacker no they got on risk with it becouse of the fork. and the fork didnt do good to all of us |
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