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421  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [DEAD] Coiledcoin - yet another cryptocurrency, but with OP_EVAL! on: January 06, 2012, 03:03:44 PM
I'll part by quoting another popular pool operator on the subject: "Wow, luke defended users from the new altchain while I was sleeping Smiley" People here who are irritated that they won't get to make-money-fast on a new altchain should realize that most bitcoin users will not share their outrage.
For the record, the pool owner in question is Tycho and the pool he owns is Deepbit, which controls between 40% and 50%+ of all Bitcoin mining power. It's basically Bitcoin or bust from here on out.

Woah, you're making it sound like you wrote any of that to begin with. As far as I could tell, your contribution to CoiledCoin was primarily rebranding (and the marketing of it as an altcoin).  The more interesting features should be available in bitcoin because thats where you got them from.  Luke wrote more of CoiledCoin than you did.
They should be available in Bitcoin given that's where they came from originally, but they're not and it's not clear they will be any time soon, which is the whole reason I launched CoiledCoin in the first place.
422  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Pool Ops are now the Alt Currency Police on: January 06, 2012, 02:55:00 PM
Luke's pool has far less than 51% of the hashing power of the top ten pools combined, and is not even the largest of the top ten pools. There are a number of pools that could all by themself "fix" Luke's attack.
Judging from his comments in #bitcoin, I think that Tycho is basically in agreement with Luke's actions here, and since Deepbit makes up 40-50% of the total Bitcoin mining power by itself...
423  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Redefining opcodes and OP_EVAL proposal on: January 06, 2012, 02:10:59 PM
Currently I think this script would validate (and may even pass isStandard()?). But when the new proposal comes in OP_NOP1 will be redefined as OP_EVAL and the script will no longer validate.

If this script was included in the blockchain then validation would fail for new clients during the initial blockchain download.
The plan was to only treat OP_NOP1 as OP_EVAL for blocks with timestamps after the switch-on time, and to make sure that well over 50% of miners will know to reject blocks containing such scripts by that time. OP_EVAL is probably going to be replaced by a different proposal, but that uses the same approach to dealing with transactions which are valid under the old rules but not the new.
424  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Bitparking Merged Mining Pool (PPS, 50G/s, BTC, NMC, I0C, IXC) on: January 06, 2012, 01:12:09 PM
All users that mined coiled coins on the mmpool have been compensated BTC at the rate of 0.0002 btc per coiled coin. This has been credited to your bitcoin balance. Sorry for the inconvenience of resetting your addresses for such a short lived chain.
Sorry it all went horribly wrong like this. I really wasn't expecting a 51% attack by one of the major pools.
425  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Pool Ops are now the Alt Currency Police on: January 06, 2012, 12:16:16 PM
link to some evidence he was involved in this??
Link. There are others, plus his messages in IRC though he's been pressuring people into not quoting those.
426  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Pool Ops are now the Alt Currency Police on: January 06, 2012, 12:00:45 PM
brute forcing and getting a longer chain doesn't "break" the currency does it?  sure, luke or whomever gets the generated coins that other miners originally assumed they got but the currency itself could keep on going after, right?
He's preventing anyone from getting blocks or performing transactions and has no incentive to stop, so it's kind of dead. He was also hinting in IRC that he might do the same to I0coin and Ixcoin and has more than enough hash power to do so, but it's possible he was joking.

was it that bitcoin was only able to sneak through this phase because at the time there was no familiarity/fear of proof-of-work crypto currencies, no competitors to knock it down and no 100s of ghash/s excess capacity?
No-one had the required financial incentive to attack it in this way.
427  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [RELEASED] Coiledcoin - yet another cryptocurrency, but with OP_EVAL! on: January 06, 2012, 10:52:00 AM
I'm pretty sympathetic to the scam charge.  Exchange support and trading on day zero? Really??
Apparently BTC-E can set up a new exchange quite quickly, though I still have no idea how they found out about Coiledcoin in the first place. Developing the tools to do interesting things with OP_EVAL and suitable lightweight clients is a bit slower and fairly pointless unless there's some way to actually process transactions.

Touting features that had been introduced to mainline bitcoin, developed and QAed entirely by other people, but just not made it through QA into release yet as big advances?  Really??
Last time I looked, the Bitcoin developers and pool owners were bickering over the details of how to actually implement these features. Also, you're forgetting that in the process of developing this I found and reported an easy remotely-exploitable node crashing bug in one of those features "QAed entirely by other people".

And it now sounds like we have a great chance here how to figure out how to combat a >50% attacker who is denying transactions—  but fortunately before there where many suckers^wpeople who sunk a lot of hard earned money into it.
I'd basically already come to the conclusion that all the approaches usually proposed were wildly unrealistic even for something with as much support as Bitcoin.

My understanding is that OP_EVAL is being added to Bitcoin without risk of forking the blockchain, because Satoshi envisioned it in advance and therefore the code that old nodes run already supports it, just not as a standard transaction (this means that unless they upgrade they will not include OP_EVAL transactions in blocks they generate, but still they will verify blocks that others generate with OP_EVAL transactions inside as conforming with the protocol, right?)
Sort of. OP_EVAL was in the process of being added to Bitcoin by having new nodes include verified OP_EVAL transactions into blocks but without bothering to verify that existing uses of OP_EVAL inside blocks are actually valid until the switch-over date. So basically, until switch-over malicious miners can spend OP_EVAL transactions that they shouldn't be able to. However, its not safe to switch it on until much more than 50% of the mining power understand OP_EVAL and they must all turn it on at once. Last time I looked the Bitcoin network was nowhere near achieving this.

However, OP_EVAL is being abandoned by Bitcoin in favour of something incompatible and more limited called "pay to script hash" that requires going through that process again, and I'm not sure the replacement will get as much support from pools. Also, luke-jr's pushing for a legacy-free variant of that similar to what I'm using for Coiledcoin and has been threatening to refuse to mine normal Bitcoin transactions after the turn-on date for P2SH, which will make it harder to spend Bitcoins from pre-P2SH addresses. It's all a bit political.
428  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [349 GH] Eligius pool: ~0Fee SMPPS, no reg, RollNtime, hop OK, BTC+NMC merged! on: January 06, 2012, 10:15:52 AM
make better alt chains?
Not really practical unfortunately. Bitcoin itself is vulnerable to the exact same attack, you just need more hashpower, and all the solutions that anyone's been able to find just cause worse problems. (Yep, for the low low price of a few million dollars anyone that wants to can completely shut down Bitcoin and stop any transactions from being processed. Thankfully no-one seems to care that much.)

It's great to know that we have good people like Luke watching out for us.

I'm still trying to figure out what happened to the 20-odd blocks I lost that all had numerous confirmations from the network, yet turned invalid....and still continue, as I am keeping my miners up.

You're getting orphaned. Standard bitcoin chain decision code won't switch off your own chain and onto something else unless the something else is _longer_, being tied isn't enough.  If someone outpaces the reset of the network by enough of a factor it's unlikely anyone else will get any blocks in even without any modification to ignore third party blocks.
On the other hand, if he saw multiply confirmed blocks getting orphaned then it pretty much confirms that luke-jr was intentionally rewriting history. That's vanishingly unlikely to happen otherwise even at ludicrous block rates; it's the whole reason that Bitcoin and the other altcoins based on it work in the first place.
429  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [RELEASED] Coiledcoin - yet another cryptocurrency, but with OP_EVAL! on: January 06, 2012, 12:32:26 AM
LOL exchange opens at BTC-E.Com about 5hrs later after launch. WTF this is planned as heck pump and dump ?
Your guess is actually as good as mine on this one. Wasn't expecting anyone to set up an exchange this soon, they must have a lot of practice at it.
430  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [RELEASED] Coiledcoin - yet another cryptocurrency, but with OP_EVAL! on: January 05, 2012, 10:42:23 PM
Too late already did
Wow, that's actually quite a clever logo idea.

Hopefully this will be worth something soon, so far it seems I own 40% of all mined coins Wink
A big concentration you've got there, though I guess there's not much excitement about new altcoins anymore. To be honest I've no idea what's going to happen; exchanges weren't particularly high up the priority list compared to getting it out there and getting the tools for people to do interesting things with it.
431  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [RELEASED] Coiledcoin - yet another cryptocurrency, but with OP_EVAL! on: January 05, 2012, 07:25:16 PM
You can register accounts with Coiled Coin addresses at mmpool and they'll start receiving coins once I've tested and enabled it.
Thank you, hopefully this ought to work OK. (The testing version of the chain was merged mined from the start, partly so I could work out some bugs with supporting multiple chains in some unrelated code, but obviously until the difficulty increases things will be a tad interesting.)

Also, it looks like I screwed up and changed the genesis block back to 50 CLCs at some point, then forgot to change it back. Oh well.
432  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Coiledcoin - yet another cryptocurrency, but with OP_EVAL! on: January 05, 2012, 05:32:54 PM
Logo ?
There's a placeholder at www.coiledcoin.org but it really wants replacing.
433  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Coiledcoin - yet another cryptocurrency, but with OP_EVAL! on: January 05, 2012, 05:22:28 PM
OK, so this is somewhat later than originally anticipated, partly because of a slight last minute change and mostly because the Windows build is really slow, but it's out:

Windows release
Windows installer
Linux release
Source code
 
The website is coming eventually.
434  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Coiledcoin - yet another cryptocurrency, but with OP_EVAL! on: January 05, 2012, 04:01:18 PM
It's receiver pays for fees too isn't it? Or did I misread somewhere?
In a way. The sender's side of the transaction is the same size no matter how complex the rules are - the actual script is only included when the transaction is spent, so the receiver pays any extra fees that result from them choosing to have more complex restrictions on how it can be spent.
435  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Coiledcoin - yet another cryptocurrency, but with OP_EVAL! on: January 05, 2012, 03:36:10 PM
So what is OP_EVAL?
It's a way of letting you send to addresses that have more complicated restrictions on how the coins can then be spent - such as requiring signatures from multiple people or devices - without the sender having to worry about what the exact requirements are. It also makes it easier to, for example, set up an escrow arrangement where some coins can only be transferred either with the agreement of either the buyer and seller, or by the escrow agent and one of the two parties agreeing - so the escrow provider can't just run off with them. Sadly the tools to actually make this kind of escrow possible aren't quite ready yet.

There's a good technical description here. It was originally going into Bitcoin, but I think they've pretty much abandoned it in favour of something similar which may or may not get enough support. It's all a tad messy on their end right now.

Do you plan to add support for Open Transactions?
Not really. That'd probably best be done externally by someone with more experience with Open Transactions, if at all.
436  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Coiledcoin - yet another cryptocurrency, but with OP_EVAL! on: January 05, 2012, 01:24:49 PM
Fail ScamCoin altchain is fail.

We need the exchange to open ASAP. These will be worth 10 BTC each !

Buy, buy, buy !!!
Well, we'll see what happens - partly depends if anyone manages to launch any interesting services with it.
437  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Coiledcoin - yet another cryptocurrency, but with OP_EVAL! on: January 05, 2012, 01:16:00 PM
Where is the client for linux? what miners can we use to mine your coin in linux?

Thank you
There'll be source and clients for Windows and Linux once the chain actually officially launches; got the build process for them setup already. Any standard Bitcoin miner will work. This is a slightly rushed launch so I unfortunately don't have a public client out for a test version of the chain. (Obviously there's my private one which could in theory be released but it's probably not a good idea.)
438  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / [DEAD] Coiledcoin - yet another cryptocurrency, but with OP_EVAL! on: January 05, 2012, 11:19:56 AM
Well, looks like this is pretty much dead courtesy of a >51% attack by Luke Jr. The more interesting features should in theory be available in Bitcoin eventually - including the removal of existing legacy Bitcoin addresses if Luke Jr gets his way (he was threatening to refuse to mine transactions using them). No idea when though and I certainly won't be developing the tools to make use of them.

Since there aren't quite enough shamefully Bitcoin-cloning cryptocurrencies out there yet, I'm launching another one - Coiledcoin. It has all the features you might expect from a modern Bitcoin clone, plus a handful more:

  • Merged mining and OP_EVAL support from the start
  • No legacy addresses. Anyone and anywhere that can pay to a Coiledcoin address can pay to one that requires signatures from multiple parties to spend, such as an escrow account or a business account requiring approval from two managers. It makes no difference to the sender - all addresses use OP_EVAL and look the same. (The infrastructure to spend these is fairly poor right now though.)
  • Block every 2 minutes on average, difficulty adjustment of up to 100% up/50% down every 720 blocks (nominally 24 hours), ArtForz timestamp exploit fixed.
  • 10 CLC reward per block initially, halving every 525000 blocks (nominally 2 years) until it reaches 1 CLC where it will remain forever. This is an inflationary coin, at least until you take coin loss into account.
  • Minimal 1337 50 CLC premine in the genesis block
  • Note that internally Coiledcoin addresses and transactions are formatted differently to normal Bitcoin clones. Do not use Bitcoin tools like vanitygen or PoolServerJ's workmaker support to create new addresses or transactions, and do not import keys with pywallet either. In theory you can safely use PoolServerJ for merged mining with Coiledcoin as an aux chain, just don't turn on workmaker for the Coiledcoin aux chain - it'll look like it works but the payouts will be unspendable.
  • More neat stuff (instant payments, light clients, possibly wallet protection services that require confirmation of large spends, etc) coming soon once I or someone else gets around to writing it.
  • Not sure what the initial difficulty will be yet, most likely 16

Download it from here
Windows release
Windows installer
Linux release
Source code

Not sure if there'll be a pool available at the time of launch yet though. If not, once the difficulty rises and the block rate drops off you can use merged mining to solo mine it at the same time as mining Bitcoins on p2pool. In addition to those instructions, you need to set rpcuser, rpcpassword and server in coiledcoin.conf, run the Coiledcoin client, and when starting p2pool add "--merged-url http://127.0.0.1:8367/ --merged-userpass user:password" to the end of the p2pool command line. (Also, I'd recommend setting your RPC password to something stronger than "password" for security reasons!) Again, do not pooled mine on Coiledcoin with p2pool - it should stop you but payouts would be unspendable.

Edit: Apparently I'm not as 1337 as I thought; forgot to change the premine back from the rather smaller 50 CLC.
439  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoins are not, in practice, fungible on: December 30, 2011, 03:04:32 PM
Why is mtgox still locking down those accounts? The bitcoins were probably sold long ago at Tradehill.
Almost certainly - that's where the person depositing them reckoned they got them from originally. Though in theory I guess the amount of tainted bitcoins should be increasing over time until we hit the point where Mt Gox give up...
440  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Bitcoins are not, in practice, fungible on: December 30, 2011, 01:36:51 PM
Something interesting happened in #mtgox last night. A user got their account locked down and MagicalTux said that the reason for it was that the coins could be traced back to a theft a long time ago. He unlocked the account in question, but it means that the widely-held assumption that Bitcoins are fungible - that it doesn't matter which you get paid with - isn't true and hasn't been for some time. Some Bitcoins are tainted and will cause you problems when you try to exchange them while others aren't, and there's no easy way to tell which is which just by looking at them. (Wonder if there's a way to require payment with recently-mined bitcoins...)

I have no idea whether or how this will affect Bitcoin though.
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