Hate to say it, but my opinion is formed because the main players dont even see it as revolutionary right now. They want other things. Its just not as a big as people want it to be. Maybe in a few years. This is why Bitmain dominates. There just isnt enough interest from other companies. Its funny how others perceive me as this ASIC pushing shill when all im speaking is the truth. Amazing isnt it  . I just dont understand the thought that GPU will take over. There still only 2 companies designing architecture for video cards where ASIC chips are being developed by more companies every day. All of the other GPU manufacturers outside of AMD and Nvidia are sitting on their hands waiting to buy the next schematic. How can this possibly sustain mining. Its just been Polaris and Pascal for years. Its a clear sign that the industry is shifting. One could say the ASIC designers like Texas Instruments are the true pioneers of the industry creating machines designed for the purpose. There is literally no one else aside from the few ASIC pioneers that are pushing the mining side of design forward. These chips are marvels of engineering. So, more or less, you are "implying," surrender to Sir BITMAIN {Giving them full control of mining and trading speculation as a result} because they supposedly "care about crypto" and it's going somewhere? Since, AMD and NVIDIA may not publicly support crypto in your eyes? That's FAR from the truth! I prefer de-centralized mining not controlled by one manufacturer. Was on break. Going back downstairs to the mining room remodel. Later... |
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It's time for me to get back to my mining room remodel. I'll check in later.
Cheers,
Happy Mining!
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It's a big "?" when you dont see these GPU makers designing chips for mining. They are clearly proficient in creating amazing products, yet mining isnt a priority for AMD or Nvidia. The Nvidia CEO even asked retailers to stop selling GPUs in bulk to miners. Even they dont think GPU mining is the way to go. They are not pushing ANY kind of innovation for PC mining aside from a handful of companies. Like Biostar and Asus. Its just odd. If it was the answer, why arent the biggest players in the industry supporting it full force. The "mining" cards wont even come with a warranty.
Who knows... Maybe it's FUD in the technology... FUD in governments... Who knows... |
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Every industry that gets popular gets dominated by the major players. Crypto is no different. If a coin is GPU only, then people will just fill up warehouses with GPU. There really isnt a difference. The people with money own every industry.
Yes, true and the money is now with Bitmain so let us give them control? All we can do is limit it. Hence, it's ASIC resistance and not ASIC proof  . If we keep forking every x months and nobody buy those ASICs there will be no incentive after a few iterations of ASICs. Eventually they'll wear out. Right now they dump the old gen HW to us while they refresh their own inventory with better stuff. Theres no one stopping anyone from designing their own asics. Its not like AMD and Nvidia cant do the same. Why dont they? Its a huge illogical flaw in the ASIC debate. Anyone can make them. Texas Instruments design the chips for Bitmain. No one hates them for example. Literally the only reason its happening is because they have free reign. Your choice: Compete with BITMAIN and its ASIC's or a few large DISTRIBUTED/DECENTALIZED GPU farms here and there? |
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Every industry that gets popular gets dominated by the major players. Crypto is no different. If a coin is GPU only, then people will just fill up warehouses with GPU. This whole idea that one type of computer over the other causes a centralization issue, is a far fetch argument. Its not like all major GPU coins dont have 1000s of gpus pointed to it by a single person. A FB admin in a group im in produces a few hundred k a month with his properties. All GPU. How is he not centralizing things? There really isnt a difference. The people with money own every industry. Bitmain doesnt own all of the hash power for every coin they make machines for.
When a manufacturer can earn more by not selling the product they manufacture, they will sell only as much hardware as they cannot put into service for themselves (or whatever they need for momentary cash flow). That is their greatest incentive - and the monopolizing tendency is relentless. The large-scale miner’s incentive aligns best with profit, and that’s only a shallow alignment to the broader goals of the Zcash project. So, you prefer to compete with BITMAIN and its ASIC's rather than a few large DISTRIBUTED GPU farms here and there? |
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I see more of spam in this thread now. At least I see some content related to the topic from @dmwardjr
People are not stupid in general. However, people can be misinformed and take wrong decisions and in interest to protect their own they will passively support an idea for a short term gain.
There will be people who might have been tempted to grab ASICs in first batches, in a hope to get their ROI soon and then profit. Forking will cause them to have 2nd thoughts on those ASICs so they are not going to support the idea in first place. Also, ASIC mining is simpler than GPU mining too.
But here's a food for thought,
Bitmain/xyz mfg sells an ASIC 10K hashes or whatever at $1000 now.
I guess we can all agree that they are leading the pack by a huge margin in ASIC industry for crypto mining? Sooner or later the other small-scale ASIC mfg will be put out of business. Then the same xyz mfg is going to sell a 100G ASIC for $20k and these are the only ASICs they manufacture now. Who will be able to afford such ASICs? Hello, centralization.
Now one may argue a bigshot company who has $1 Million will be able to get thousands of GPUs instead of buying tens of ASICs but here's the deal. Managing thousands of GPUs and hundreds of rigs needs enormous amount of power, infrastructure and maintenance costs. Management is difficult. GPUs won't be priced at $20k. They serve multiple purpose and are not targeted to a single community.
The only positive thing I see about ASIC mining is reduced power consumption and carbon footprint. In all other cases it's facilitating centralization and moving away from the basic idea.
ONE OF THE BEST LOGICAL COMMENTS I"VE SEEN YET!!!! |
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The point of competition induced by multiple FPGA suppliers is an important one. This will ultimately drive price down over the long run.
Agreed.... Thanks for posting... |
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No one has mentioned a group that really wants ASICs to hit the market for all algos, and that is the gamers. They have been bitching about the prices of GPUs going higher and higher because of miners.
I have been through it all, GPUs, Gridseed blades, Antminers, more GPUs, and on and on. My son, who is a gamer has been doing nothing but bitching about the high price of GPUs, so he is pro ASIC.
As I said before, it's clear that Bitmain can now produce an ASIC for any algo. No one is complaining about Baikal miners, why because they are not Bitmain. But yet they are multi-algo miners.
Just watch, if there is another algo with a high value coin attached to it, there will be an ASIC for it. Now you have FPGAs coming out that can mine any algo. What are the pro GPU people going to do then?
I see FPGA in the same category as GPU. Are they dominantly controlled by ONE company? Even if they were, aren't they used for more than one purpose like GPU's? Can they be easily banned by governments like ASIC's can when shipped into a country? I'm even thinking about buying some myself. Takes some "know how" though or relying on someone else who Knows how. |
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I dont think you realize that you cant stop this from happening.
I'm the type who believe's, "One person can actually make a difference." If I can instill that same belief in others, who in turn pass it forward and instill it in others... then 1+1+1+1, etc... equals "infinity." That's how networks grow. |
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I've already seen the thread, keep posting pics, Im thinking of rebuilding half the garage for mining! ^^
Cool... If and/or when you do get it going, please feel free to post photos with comments to update us with what you have going on so we all can learn from one another. |
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Because the logical approach to finding a resolution is to just fork, fork, fork, fork, fork.Damn a new machine? fork fork fork.....So they going to fork again after the next machine? Maybe? 3rd....Nope. Its a waste of money and time and pointless venture. People CANNOT stop evolution of the computer.
Come on now, Net... Really bro? Let's THINK through this logically how about it? Several PoW coins are actively researching PROG PoW RIGHT NOW as we speak. I "KNOW" this because I'm in direct communication with developers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6B-ZCyP6K8&t=1sIt's not logical to draw conclusions without gathering EVERYTHING on a subject first. No? So, please don't assume the worst and simply give up. What you FAIL to point out is there is also an EVOLUTION IN SOFTWARE: Same video to point out "evolution" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6B-ZCyP6K8&t=1s |
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It was a good call to sell them, I kept mine to the bitter end! haha I think the main reason I dont mind asic's is because I want to use my GPU's in FOG-computing projects like sonm.io. Its a better use of the resources imo! I will reinstall my gpu rigs soon to be ready for testnet release in june! (The only service available in test will still be mining IaaS, as a test deal/task (profit switching) ). You make a lot of good points, but keep the caps and red text on the downlow please  I may have edited some other points while you were creating your post. Yeah, I saw the writing on the wall in mid January, 2016 and sold. I did keep 7 of them just in case Bitcoin were to moon; and it did to $20,000K. Now, I gave those 7 x S7's to my dad. I also gave him eight 6 card R9 380 rigs (they're old) while helping him build a mining closet. Which see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2865914.0EDIT: By the way, CAPS were only for emphasis, Bro. Not yelling at you by any means, Sir. Much respect... |
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Net,
The real discussion currently is “do we want a Bitmain run network or a GPU network”. If you cannot legitimately say “yes, I want a Bitmain centralized network” then you’re not really pro-ASIC in the current market.
Keep in mind, there is a difference between a BITMAIN run network and an ASIC run network. Cause as I said previously, "ASIC would be fine "IF" {and it's a big if} the manufacturing of ASIC's were not CENTRALIZED, if governments did not pose a risk of banning ASIC's when they are shipped into their country, [GPU's are not so easily banned; as they have multiple purposes], and manufacturers pulling shenanigans in regards to better hardware while selling the scraps to unwary greedy driven miners trying to make a buck while being oblivious to the true "end" of what Bitmain works towards. Which is lining their own pockets at the expense of unwary individuals who are being seriously taken advantage of."
BITMAIN, is a MULT-Billion dollar company who can afford to pay trolls to come on here and market their products while also spreading propaganda of how ASIC's are better for the network (Selling pitch) all while ignoring everything else on the subject to determine if BITMAIN's idea of an ASIC network is really an ASIC network. Sounds like a BITMAIN network to me.
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Although it may seem that this guy dmwardjr is talking to himself, he is actually fighting for all of us GPU miners.
If nobody voices out concerns like this, there is no chance that GPU mining will survive and ASICs backed by profit-oriented companies will take over the mining scene. I'm glad dmwardjr is here and actively posting in this thread if anything to raise awareness. Keep on fighting the good fight!
Can you honestly say that if ASIC were as readily available and as affordable as GPUs you wouldnt use them? Did you read my post above? " ASIC would be fine "IF" {and it's a big if} the manufacturing of ASIC's were not CENTRALIZED, if governments did not pose a risk of banning ASIC's when they are shipped into their country, [GPU's are not so easily banned; as they have multiple purposes], and manufacturers pulling shenanigans in regards to better hardware while selling the scraps to unwary greedy driven miners trying to make a buck while being oblivious to the true "end" of what Bitmain works towards. Which is lining their own pockets at the expense of unwary individuals who are being seriously taken advantage of." |
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Although it may seem that this guy dmwardjr is talking to himself, he is actually fighting for all of us GPU miners.
If nobody voices out concerns like this, there is no chance that GPU mining will survive and ASICs backed by profit-oriented companies will take over the mining scene. I'm glad dmwardjr is here and actively posting in this thread if anything to raise awareness. Keep on fighting the good fight!
Nice to see someone who GETS IT. |
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Look dmwardjr, I've learned a lot from you in the early days, you actually inspired me to build my own mining room back in the day, but I gotta say you seem a little off the railz regarding this issue!
Hi cryptotore, I "respectfully" request to please refrain from "off the rails," Sir. I'll try to discuss with you:
No problem... In my mind ASIC's is good because its the most efficient tech available to date. This means that a network consisting of asics are less vulnerable to takeover from governments/companies. Simply because they cant produce more efficient hardware in secret, and take over the network.
That's your mind... However, the "company" to take it over would be BITMAIN. I'm not saying BITMAIN is in league with the Chinese Government. I don't believe they are. I'm saying BITMAIN is the "Company" to takeover PoW coins. With that comes RISKS of 51% attack, Giving them increased power in the trading space as a Composite Group sitting behind the scenes and manipulates the coins to your disadvantage if you do not understand the game as he plays it; and to your great profit if you do understand it. However, MOST don't understand it as some of us do and BITMAIN wins again by manipulating not only the mining market but the trading market as well.  Bitmain (and others) could have chosen not to sell these machines, and basically taken over the network in secret if they wanted to.
GPUs are WAY more available to get then ASICs. To say GPUs are currently hard to get is incorrect. Sure there was a month or 2 when they were overpriced, that was due to the high demand when they had a ROI of 90 days. Even then you could still buy a smaller graphics card, they were not ALL sold out. The 1070/1080 TIs were the hard ones to get, other models were more available. What advantage would we have if everyone moved to ASICs? It would just raise the current bar for everyone, reduce us to one supplier of hardware, and starts a arms race. Atleast with GPUs we are all on a level playing field without having to worry someone will have a GPU that does x100 the hashrate for 1/10th the power. All the hardware is relatively close to each other in terms of performance, keeping the difficulty from ramping up x10-x100. ASICs dont save power, they dont make the network more secure, they are limited in availability, only have 3 to 6 month warrantys, run loud and hot, manufacturers keep a large number of the them for themselves and keep secret other rigs that are far better then sell them as new later while replacing them with new hardware, etc... This is suppose to be a ASIC resistant coin, why dont you ASIC people go mine other ASIC coins available. Ohhhh ya thats right, you cant make your money back off them ASIC coins anymore because of the difficulty have ramped up so much. So you want to come and ruin Zcash’s difficulty with ASICs to make a quick buck and act like its the future of mining. I'm HERE to tell you, that QUICK buck is an ILLUSION.As you KNOW, I've been in the space for a while and have had a LOT of experience with BITMAIN. My LAST round of ASIC's I bought from them was 42 x Bitmain S7's in late 2015. All of which I sold in February 2016 and never looked back. I USED to be the one to DEFEND them when they were attacked by others and I believe you KNOW this. THEN I TOOK THE RED PILL AND WOKE UP in February, 2016!!! I did a LOT of research and weighing pros and cons of GPU versus ASIC. ASIC would be fine "IF" {and it's a big if} the manufacturing of ASIC's were not CENTRALIZED, if governments did not pose a risk of banning ASIC's when they are shipped into their country, [GPU's are not so easily banned; as they have multiple purposes], and manufacturers pulling shenanigans in regards to better hardware while selling the scraps to unwary greedy driven miners trying to make a buck while being oblivious to the true "end" of what Bitmain works towards. Which is lining their own pockets at the expense of unwary individuals who are being seriously taken advantage of. |
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Cryptomined, gives Zooko a lesson on INTEGRITY... ROFL
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The Pro ASIC Moderator who banned me:
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