Bitmain launches the Z9 Equihash miner

[dmwardjr]

I dont think you realize that you cant stop this from happening.

I'm the type who believe's, "One person can actually make a difference."  If I can instill that same belief in others, who in turn pass it forward and instill it in others... then 1+1+1+1, etc... equals "infinity."  That's how networks grow.

[madmartyk]

No one has mentioned a group that really wants ASICs to hit the market for all algos, and that is the gamers.  They have been bitching about the prices of GPUs going higher and higher because of miners.

I have been through it all, GPUs, Gridseed blades, Antminers, more GPUs, and on and on.  My son, who is a gamer has been doing nothing but bitching about the high price of GPUs, so he is pro ASIC.

As I said before, it's clear that Bitmain can now produce an ASIC for any algo.  No one is complaining about Baikal miners, why because they are not Bitmain.  But yet they are multi-algo miners.

Just watch, if there is another algo with a high value coin attached to it, there will be an ASIC for it.  Now you have FPGAs coming out that can mine any algo.  What are the pro GPU people going to do then?

[dmwardjr]

No one has mentioned a group that really wants ASICs to hit the market for all algos, and that is the gamers.  They have been bitching about the prices of GPUs going higher and higher because of miners.

I have been through it all, GPUs, Gridseed blades, Antminers, more GPUs, and on and on.  My son, who is a gamer has been doing nothing but bitching about the high price of GPUs, so he is pro ASIC.

As I said before, it's clear that Bitmain can now produce an ASIC for any algo.  No one is complaining about Baikal miners, why because they are not Bitmain.  But yet they are multi-algo miners.

Just watch, if there is another algo with a high value coin attached to it, there will be an ASIC for it.  Now you have FPGAs coming out that can mine any algo.  What are the pro GPU people going to do then?

I see FPGA in the same category as GPU.  Are they dominantly controlled by ONE company?  Even if they were, aren't they used for more than one purpose like GPU's?  Can they be easily banned by governments like ASIC's can when shipped into a country?  I'm even thinking about buying some myself.  Takes some "know how" though or relying on someone else who Knows how.

[NetfetMiningCompany]

No one has mentioned a group that really wants ASICs to hit the market for all algos, and that is the gamers.  They have been bitching about the prices of GPUs going higher and higher because of miners.

I have been through it all, GPUs, Gridseed blades, Antminers, more GPUs, and on and on.  My son, who is a gamer has been doing nothing but bitching about the high price of GPUs, so he is pro ASIC.

As I said before, it's clear that Bitmain can now produce an ASIC for any algo.  No one is complaining about Baikal miners, why because they are not Bitmain.  But yet they are multi-algo miners.

Just watch, if there is another algo with a high value coin attached to it, there will be an ASIC for it.  Now you have FPGAs coming out that can mine any algo.  What are the pro GPU people going to do then?

Well said. Whats funny is that GPU architecture design is only owned by 2 companies. There are literally more ASIC manufacturers designing chips then there are GPU. AMD and Nvidia own the entire GPU market by design. Similar to how Sony basically had all rights to the compact disc, when it was created. Hence the Sony stamp. Well intel a little bit with onboard cpu/gpu schematics. Think they are getting into GPU design as well. There will be no difference when asic go mainstream like GPU. It will just be the top couple companies selling schematics to 3rd party to build their own, just like AMD/Nvidia. There is literally no difference. How do i know this? Because this has been the entire evolution cycle of modern computing.

[Max Likelihood]

No one has mentioned a group that really wants ASICs to hit the market for all algos, and that is the gamers.  They have been bitching about the prices of GPUs going higher and higher because of miners.

I have been through it all, GPUs, Gridseed blades, Antminers, more GPUs, and on and on.  My son, who is a gamer has been doing nothing but bitching about the high price of GPUs, so he is pro ASIC.

As I said before, it's clear that Bitmain can now produce an ASIC for any algo.  No one is complaining about Baikal miners, why because they are not Bitmain.  But yet they are multi-algo miners.

Just watch, if there is another algo with a high value coin attached to it, there will be an ASIC for it.  Now you have FPGAs coming out that can mine any algo.  What are the pro GPU people going to do then?

I see FPGA in the same category as GPU.  Are they dominantly controlled by ONE company?  Even if they were, aren't they used for more than one purpose like GPU's?  Can they be easily banned by governments like ASIC's can when shipped into a country?  I'm even thinking about buying some myself.  Takes some "know how" though or relying on someone else who Knows how.

The point of competition induced by multiple FPGA suppliers is an important one. This will ultimately drive price down over the long run.

[dmwardjr]

The point of competition induced by multiple FPGA suppliers is an important one. This will ultimately drive price down over the long run.

Agreed....  Thanks for posting...

[heavyarms1912]

I see more of spam in this thread now.  At least I see some content related to the topic from @dmwardjr

People are not stupid in general.  However, people can be misinformed and take wrong decisions and in interest to protect their own they will passively support an idea for a short term gain.  
There will be people who might have been tempted to grab ASICs in first batches, in a hope to get their ROI soon and then profit.  Forking will affect them and so they are not going to support the idea in first place.  Also, ASIC mining is simpler than GPU mining too.

But here's a food for thought,
Bitmain/xyz mfg sells an ASIC 10K hashes or whatever at $1000 now.
I guess we can all agree that they are leading the pack by a huge margin in ASIC industry for crypto mining? Sooner or later the other small-scale ASIC mfg will be put out of business.  Then the same xyz mfg is going to sell a 100G ASIC for $20k and these are the only ASICs they manufacture now.  Who will be able to afford such ASICs?  Hello, centralization.

Now one may argue a bigshot company who has $1 Million will be able to get thousands of GPUs instead of buying tens of ASICs but here's the deal. Managing thousands of GPUs and hundreds of rigs needs enormous amount of power, infrastructure and maintenance costs.  Management is difficult.  GPUs won't be priced at $20k.  They serve multiple purpose and are not targeted to a single community.

The only positive thing I see about ASIC mining is reduced power consumption and carbon footprint.  In all other cases it's facilitating centralization and moving away from the basic idea of decentralized crypto.

[dmwardjr]

I see more of spam in this thread now.  At least I see some content related to the topic from @dmwardjr

People are not stupid in general.  However, people can be misinformed and take wrong decisions and in interest to protect their own they will passively support an idea for a short term gain.  
There will be people who might have been tempted to grab ASICs in first batches, in a hope to get their ROI soon and then profit.  Forking will cause them to have 2nd thoughts on those ASICs so they are not going to support the idea in first place.  Also, ASIC mining is simpler than GPU mining too.

But here's a food for thought,
Bitmain/xyz mfg sells an ASIC 10K hashes or whatever at $1000 now.
I guess we can all agree that they are leading the pack by a huge margin in ASIC industry for crypto mining? Sooner or later the other small-scale ASIC mfg will be put out of business.  Then the same xyz mfg is going to sell a 100G ASIC for $20k and these are the only ASICs they manufacture now.  Who will be able to afford such ASICs?  Hello, centralization.

Now one may argue a bigshot company who has $1 Million will be able to get thousands of GPUs instead of buying tens of ASICs but here's the deal. Managing thousands of GPUs and hundreds of rigs needs enormous amount of power, infrastructure and maintenance costs.  Management is difficult.  GPUs won't be priced at $20k.  They serve multiple purpose and are not targeted to a single community.

The only positive thing I see about ASIC mining is reduced power consumption and carbon footprint.  In all other cases it's facilitating centralization and moving away from the basic idea.

ONE OF THE BEST LOGICAL COMMENTS I"VE SEEN YET!!!!

[NetfetMiningCompany]

Every industry that gets popular gets dominated by the major players. Crypto is no different. If a coin is GPU only, then people will just fill up warehouses with GPU. This whole idea that one type of computer over the other causes a centralization issue, is a far fetch argument. Its not like all major GPU coins dont have 1000s of gpus pointed to it by a single person. A FB admin in a group im in produces a few hundred k a month with his properties. All GPU. How is he not centralizing things? There really isnt a difference. The people with money own every industry. Bitmain doesnt own all of the hash power for every coin they make machines for. Ethermine.org dominates the entire ether network.

[dmwardjr]

Every industry that gets popular gets dominated by the major players. Crypto is no different. If a coin is GPU only, then people will just fill up warehouses with GPU. This whole idea that one type of computer over the other causes a centralization issue, is a far fetch argument. Its not like all major GPU coins dont have 1000s of gpus pointed to it by a single person. A FB admin in a group im in produces a few hundred k a month with his properties. All GPU. How is he not centralizing things? There really isnt a difference. The people with money own every industry. Bitmain doesnt own all of the hash power for every coin they make machines for.

When a manufacturer can earn more by not selling the product they manufacture, they will sell only as much hardware as they cannot put into service for themselves (or whatever they need for momentary cash flow). That is their greatest incentive - and the monopolizing tendency is relentless.

The large-scale miner’s incentive aligns best with profit, and that’s only a shallow alignment to the broader goals of the Zcash project.

So, you prefer to compete with BITMAIN and its ASIC's rather than a few large DISTRIBUTED GPU farms here and there?

[heavyarms1912]

Every industry that gets popular gets dominated by the major players. Crypto is no different. If a coin is GPU only, then people will just fill up warehouses with GPU. There really isnt a difference. The people with money own every industry.

Yes, true and the money is now with Bitmain so let us give them control?

All we can do is limit it.  Hence, it's ASIC resistance and not ASIC proof .  If we keep forking every x months and nobody buy those ASICs there will be no incentive after a few iterations of ASICs.
Eventually they'll wear out.  Right now they dump the old gen HW to us while they refresh their own inventory with better stuff.

[NetfetMiningCompany]

Every industry that gets popular gets dominated by the major players. Crypto is no different. If a coin is GPU only, then people will just fill up warehouses with GPU. There really isnt a difference. The people with money own every industry.

Yes, true and the money is now with Bitmain so let us give them control?

All we can do is limit it.  Hence, it's ASIC resistance and not ASIC proof .  If we keep forking every x months and nobody buy those ASICs there will be no incentive after a few iterations of ASICs.
Eventually they'll wear out.  Right now they dump the old gen HW to us while they refresh their own inventory with better stuff.

Theres no one stopping anyone from designing their own asics. Its not like AMD and Nvidia cant do the same. Why dont they? Its a huge illogical flaw in the ASIC debate. Anyone can make them. Texas Instruments design the chips for Bitmain. No one hates them for example. Literally the only reason its happening is because they have free reign.

[dmwardjr]

Every industry that gets popular gets dominated by the major players. Crypto is no different. If a coin is GPU only, then people will just fill up warehouses with GPU. There really isnt a difference. The people with money own every industry.

Yes, true and the money is now with Bitmain so let us give them control?

All we can do is limit it.  Hence, it's ASIC resistance and not ASIC proof .  If we keep forking every x months and nobody buy those ASICs there will be no incentive after a few iterations of ASICs.
Eventually they'll wear out.  Right now they dump the old gen HW to us while they refresh their own inventory with better stuff.

Theres no one stopping anyone from designing their own asics. Its not like AMD and Nvidia cant do the same. Why dont they? Its a huge illogical flaw in the ASIC debate. Anyone can make them. Texas Instruments design the chips for Bitmain. No one hates them for example. Literally the only reason its happening is because they have free reign.

Your choice:  Compete with BITMAIN and its ASIC's or a few large DISTRIBUTED/DECENTALIZED GPU farms here and there?

[heavyarms1912]

Every industry that gets popular gets dominated by the major players. Crypto is no different. If a coin is GPU only, then people will just fill up warehouses with GPU. There really isnt a difference. The people with money own every industry.

Yes, true and the money is now with Bitmain so let us give them control?

All we can do is limit it.  Hence, it's ASIC resistance and not ASIC proof .  If we keep forking every x months and nobody buy those ASICs there will be no incentive after a few iterations of ASICs.
Eventually they'll wear out.  Right now they dump the old gen HW to us while they refresh their own inventory with better stuff.

Theres no one stopping anyone from designing their own asics. Its not like AMD and Nvidia cant do the same. Why dont they? Its a huge illogical flaw in the ASIC debate. Anyone can make them. Texas Instruments design the chips for Bitmain. No one hates them for example. Literally the only reason its happening is because they have free reign.

I believe, Intel, NVIDIA and AMD have other stuff to deal with and profiting is not the only aim they have.  Designing and mfg ASICs takes lot of capital and investment (primarily R&D).  Improving from an existing design is much cheaper.

[NetfetMiningCompany]

It's a big "?" when you dont see these GPU makers designing chips for mining. They are clearly proficient in creating amazing products, yet mining isnt a priority for AMD or Nvidia. The Nvidia CEO even asked retailers to stop selling GPUs in bulk to miners. Even they dont think GPU mining is the way to go. They are not pushing ANY kind of innovation for PC mining aside from a handful of companies. Like Biostar and Asus. Its just odd. If it was the answer, why arent the biggest players in the industry supporting it full force. The "mining" cards wont even come with a warranty. Its why I have a lot of respect for Nvidia. They want AI, space travel and quantum computing.

[dmwardjr]

It's a big "?" when you dont see these GPU makers designing chips for mining. They are clearly proficient in creating amazing products, yet mining isnt a priority for AMD or Nvidia. The Nvidia CEO even asked retailers to stop selling GPUs in bulk to miners. Even they dont think GPU mining is the way to go. They are not pushing ANY kind of innovation for PC mining aside from a handful of companies. Like Biostar and Asus. Its just odd. If it was the answer, why arent the biggest players in the industry supporting it full force. The "mining" cards wont even come with a warranty.

Who knows...   Maybe it's FUD in the technology...  FUD in governments...  Who knows...

[dmwardjr]

It's time for me to get back to my mining room remodel.  I'll check in later.

Cheers,

Happy Mining!

[heavyarms1912]

It's a big "?" when you dont see these GPU makers designing chips for mining. They are clearly proficient in creating amazing products, yet mining isnt a priority for AMD or Nvidia. The Nvidia CEO even asked retailers to stop selling GPUs in bulk to miners. Even they dont think GPU mining is the way to go. They are not pushing ANY kind of innovation for PC mining aside from a handful of companies. Like Biostar and Asus. Its just odd. If it was the answer, why arent the biggest players in the industry supporting it full force. The "mining" cards wont even come with a warranty.

They don't believe crypto is the future yet?  Deep learning, AI, robotics, autonomous driving are their main focus areas?

[NetfetMiningCompany]

It's a big "?" when you dont see these GPU makers designing chips for mining. They are clearly proficient in creating amazing products, yet mining isnt a priority for AMD or Nvidia. The Nvidia CEO even asked retailers to stop selling GPUs in bulk to miners. Even they dont think GPU mining is the way to go. They are not pushing ANY kind of innovation for PC mining aside from a handful of companies. Like Biostar and Asus. Its just odd. If it was the answer, why arent the biggest players in the industry supporting it full force. The "mining" cards wont even come with a warranty.

They don't believe crypto is the future yet?  Deep learning, AI, robotics, autonomous driving are their main focus areas?

I would say not as much as the users of the coins believe.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/qveb7w/nvidia-will-focus-on-gaming-because-cryptocurrencies-are-volatile

https://www.thestreet.com/investing/stocks/nvidia-ceo-crypto-comments-throw-chip-stocks-into-focus-friday-14586907

https://www.coindesk.com/amd-sees-long-term-leveling-off-cryptocurrency-mining-demand/

"AMD shares ultimately dropped 12 percent, from $14.25 at closing on Tuesday to as low as $12.43 in after hours trading. This coincides with the investment communities highly cautionary stance towards AMD's exposure to the volatile and potentially fleeting cryptocurrency market.

Plus, AMD forecasted a decrease in cryptocurrency-related revenues for the fourth quarter, expecting its fourth quarter revenues to decrease by 15 percent from the third quarter, give or take three percent."

https://news.bitcoin.com/cryptocurrency-mining-accounted-for-10-of-amds-overall-revenue-in-q1-2018/

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-crypto-mining-isnt-as-big-a-part-of-our-business-as-reported-2018-03-27

https://www.investopedia.com/news/reduction-cryptocurrency-mining-could-be-trouble-amd-and-nvidia/

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/26/analyst-slashes-amd-nvidia-price-targets-on-new-cryptocurrency-mining-chip-from-china.html

Neither Giant cares to react enough to fight against it and they are the ones GPU miners should be thankful too. A bit odd, eh? They have no intentions of competing with Bitmain in this avenue.

Hate to say it, but my opinion is formed because the main players dont even see it as revolutionary right now. They want other things. Its just not as a big as people want it to be. Maybe in a few years. This is why Bitmain dominates. There just isnt enough interest from other companies. Its funny how others perceive me as this ASIC pushing shill when all im speaking is the truth. Amazing isnt it . I just dont understand the thought that GPU will take over. There still only 2 companies designing architecture for video cards where ASIC chips are being developed by more companies every day. All of the other GPU manufacturers outside of AMD and Nvidia are sitting on their hands waiting to buy the next schematic. How can this possibly sustain mining. Its just been Polaris and Pascal for years. Its a clear sign that the industry is shifting. One could say the ASIC designers like Texas Instruments are the true pioneers of the industry creating machines designed for the purpose. GPUs get bigger...ASICS get smaller...There is literally no one else aside from the few ASIC pioneers that are pushing the mining side of design forward. These chips are marvels of engineering.

[NetfetMiningCompany]

Anyway. Glad to see a level head to discuss with. I dont really favor either. I use both but 90% of my stock is GPU.