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Any thoughts on the discouragement of holding these bonds for extended periods of time? Should I not worry about this? Or find another way to discourage this?
I would also like to not run this operation at a loss, so the difference between the mining PPS and the payout PPS would help pay the powerbill. Ideally these will be running on my Enterpoint Cairnsmore quads(the first of which arrived today) so the powerbill should be manageable($4/month).
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I really doubt if anyone will use it the way you describe.
Personally I have invested around 24 BTC on glbse (planning on buying more bitcoin) and consider myself as a small investor.
At the moment I have around 0.11 BTC in my balance.
For 0.003 BTC each I can buy 36 of your shares, they will give me 0.000004574320992 BTC a day extra, on a year it is 0.00166962716208
0.00166962716208 / 24 * 100 = 0,006956779842% extra profit.
/edit
Your bitdust profit/day is wrong, should be 0.0000063532235831
Will give me 0.0002287160489916 a day, 0.083481357881934 a year.
0.083481357881934 / 24 * 100 = 0.347838991174725% extra profit for me.
For smaller investors it will be better, someone with a total of 2.4 BTC invested will have 3.478% extra profit.
I made a mistake in the initial calculations. Easier to script/debug/run versus plugging things in to a calculator. edit: In the end this would let people min/max their GLBSE balances versus letting their dust do nothing. I understand in the end we are talking trivial fractions of a USD. It would be roughly equivalent to purchasing fractions of a normal mining share for those people who check the GLBSE like a hawk. |
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90% PPS, 110% PPS, 1% PPS, who cares?! You could just offer 1% PPS of 1 MH/s instead of 100% PPS of 10 KH/s...  Odd numbers just make it more difficult for investors to calculate how much the "standard" of 1 MH/s would cost. Also your calculations seem weird: Why do 1% of something generate completely different amounts of BTC and not just 0.01 * [revenue of 1 MH/s]?! Also I don't get why people should be discouraged to hold 100 bitdust shares instead of 1 YABMC share for example. It would be even better, since there might be more liquidity. I can't take the time but I have this gut feeling that you complain about non-100% PPS bonds so I'll take your complaining with a grain of salt. Odd numbers don't matter to scripts, only humans. Regarding discouraging individuals from holding these bonds for long durations, my goal here is not to create another mining company that directly competes with the more efficient operations out there such as YABMC. Instead, my goal is to compliment their services by giving their users a place to store their bitdust while waiting to generate enough to purchase something useful. Liquidity should be provided by users frequently buying in and selling out for short periods of time. |
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Bitdust is a growing problem on the GLBSE.* Those fractions of a Bitcoin that are paid up as dividends from mining stocks/bonds and other investments just sit, gathering dust, instead of earning you more bitdust.
I propose to create a sub-1MH/s mining bond with the purpose of permitting owners of normal sized investment stocks/bonds to generate a small profit on their dividend bit dust. Below is a sample concept that I may move forward with if there is interest.
Normal mining bond.
1 share = 1.0 MH/s
1 MH/s/day generates 0.000012706447166. BTC/day @ difficult = 1,583,178, blockreward=50 BTC
price/share = ~0.3 BTC.
Bitdust
1 share = 0.01 MH/s = 10 KH/s.
10 KH/s/day generates 0.000000127064472 BTC/day @ difficult = 1,583,178, blockreward=50 BTC
price/share = ~0.003 BTC
I am willing to put this together for fun. These bonds would not pay out at 100% PPS in an attempt to discourage individuals from holding these bonds for extended durations. I think something in the 80-90% PPS range will encourage people to pick up bigger bonds when they acquire enough bitdust to buy 1 MH/s or whatever is the entry-level bond value at the time.
I'll go about automating payments so that I can pay out on a daily basis. I have yet to decide on the amount of hashing power I would throw at this but my farm is currently averaging around 13-14 GH/s. I would doubt more than a few hundred MH/s of these 10 KH/s shares could be absorbed by the GLBSE but that's just me pulling numbers out of my.. hat. The point is though that this is essentially a mining bond and I've got plenty of hardware to scale if desired.
Thoughts?
*- may or may not be true. Who cares?
edit1: Changed 1 MH/s/day generated from 0.00063532235831 to 0.000012706447166.
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Received my board. Sounds like it is a pretty paperweight for the next few days  Looks good though and I look forward to getting it up and running, even at only 50 MHz. |
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edit; the other thing to bear in mind is that ASIC will not be the 600%~(math check needed) increase in efficiency that cpu to gpu was.
Agreed. It could be much more than that. much more than that over FPGA? I'm very limited in my knowledge on the matter but I just don't see it. Ztex for example is ~40 watts at 860MH(x 4 chips @45nm). I'd hazard to guess a 65nm or larger(likely 90nm+ in BFL's build) asic is going to be what? 12w+ per chip and 800-1600MH? 12w for 1600MH/s is way too high... Regards, BF Labs Inc. On the watts or mh/s? Did you expect a clear answer? |
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What made you decide to go with Icarus bitstream over say, Ztex?
I believe they built this board like a pair of Icarus boards on one PCB. It sounds like 1 FPGA may communicate through another? Not certain. |
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P2Pool? No fees and you keep the transaction fees.  and 90% PPS. Don't forget that critical fact. Love the concept of p2pool, don't love the lower rewards. |
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Something to consider would be a modular approach through the standardized shipping container. You need three connections: power, connectivity, water(technically two, in/out). You can seal these units up so you won't have to cool an entire building. A 20' container has 19' by 8' by 8' of internal volume. Internally run a water to air heat exchanger, have a small network stack and treat each container like a mini datacenter.
In the end, if you were to achieve your $1m IPO, you'll still be looking at not even filling out one of these containers. Just putting 8 42U racks in to this container and filling all that capacity with FPGAs would easily blow through $1m. For giggles, if the BFL Mini-rig were a 4U unit costing $15k consuming 1.2 kW and generating 25 GH/s, that lets you put $150k of gear in a rack with 2U available for watchdog/switch. $900k gives you 6 racks with this stack leaving $100k for the container, power distribution, networking stack and heat exchanger. That generates 1.5 TH/s, sucks down down 72 kW of juice and another 7 kW of juice for cooling(COP of 10:1).
So yeah. When talking about datacenter stuff, $1m doesn't really buy a whole lot when 1 rack of gear costs $150k. This was 5 minutes of armchair thinking and it's already sounding like you have much larger plans in your mind than what is capable.
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Just received an email to confirm my shipping address. hopefully it'll be here sometime next week mining away even at something like 400 MH/s |
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I think you missed a digit. To cool a 100kW load you would need around 28-29 tons of cooling. I might have missed a note about this somewhere in the wall of text, just thought I'd let you know this though. Cooling 100kW with a/c is not cheap.
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Thanks for the updates  |
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Sell just enough to cover most of the power bill. The rest get invested in various interest generating locations with the goal of the interest from my investments covering power. It's a bitcoin snowball!
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Great news. The frequent updates are a welcome sight/read. Best of luck ramping up those core frequencies |
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I am very jealous indeed. I do plan on getting a 7970 soon. I just decided. So if 71% asic quality is good... what is bad? How well would a 100% clock?
100% is very very very rare. Those cards are worth top dollar. I'd say average is low 70's. Theres the 7970 owners thread which lists all of the ASIC qualities people have gotten to give you an idea. I was scowering ebay for an 80% by messaging the owners, but a majority were average. But this was a deal I couldn't turn down. (I would've if it was < 70% though. Close!) A 100% card would have a crazy high clock with stock volts. But under water it doesn't matter much. Most chips behave the same, because the core stays <40C compared to 80C. I think asic quality makes the most difference at higher temps. (granted if you have 70C water passing over your card from a CRAZY clock, lol..) Thanks for the response. I ended up just googling it. Since gpuz is techpowerup software I just went there. Found some threads about people posting their scores. Several had 7970's in the 90% area. When I do get a 7970, I might check this and return it if I don't like it.How can you do that ? More specifically, how can you do that in the UK ... How I would do it is buy a 7970. Install 7970. Open gpuz. Check asic quality. If it was 70%+ I would probably just be lazy and keep it. If I got a 50% I would return it and buy another in hopes it was better. Can you not return items in the uk? Newegg in the US has great customer service. I have read, as I don't have the money, that some people will buy like 3-4 gpu's and then see which one that clocks best for them and return the rest. That is so damn wrong. |
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Thanks for the info guys. Ended up buying 200 BTC off Andrew Vorobyov as I needed the coins quick. I'll check out the websites linked, I'll eventually need a way to go the other way and liquidate some coins once I tire of hoarding my mining output.
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Look guys - BFL are really busy this week and next week trying to ship the first batch of mini rigs.
Can you please show some consideration and muster some constraint, and postpone this time-consuming show-and-tell thing until after the the first batch of the mini rigs has been shipped?
Thank you.
Are you serious? What is a day of one person's time going to do when they have a estimated delivery of 12-15 weeks? Given past performance tack on another 6 weeks for good measure.. |
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What's the fastest way to go about doing this? Skimming this sub-forum makes it sound like Mt. Gox is broken/slow and Tradehill is gone. I'd prefer an automated exchange versus having to make half a dozen trades to fill out my order. I'm looking to buy roughly 200 -250BTC in one order. Anyone have an exchange/process they've had good success with?
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Decided to just stop checking p2pool over the weekend as I got tired of seeing how few blocks were solved. Came back to see someone just ramped up to 19 GH/s to take the lead on p2pool.info...
"I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very short mining career. If you give me back the spot of top hasher I won't care. I won't buy more FPGAs and GPUs. But if you don't, I will feel threatened, I will buy more FPGAs and my wallet will hurt even more than it does. Don't make me do terrible things to my wallet."
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You're pretty much maxing out the capabilities of the 5970. You could probably push 950-1000 MHz with an increase in voltage to 1.25v or so but your power consumption is going to spike. I personally run mine right now at 800 MHz core, 500MHz memory with stock volts to get the highest MH/w efficiency. I find it more helpful to just run them at conservative clocks, cool temperatures(I'm around 45-50C core temps, 55-60C VRM temps) and let them run forever. I had around 40 days up-time on my watercooled rig before I moved it to another location. Now in a more permanent location I fully expect 4-6 months up-time before I sell the cards off. Note: I found a 120mm fan cooling the back of the card by the PCIe connector helps to cool the PCB and VRM for that core. I have 3 cards per rig and just plop the fan on top of the cards to blow down on all three. Otherwise just let the cards grind away |
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