You can't compare the wattage on a BFL with an Avalon. An Avalon is a self-contained mining device. Add in the wattage for the laptop and the BFL is less efficient than an Avalon! ROFLMAO.
You are probably wrong in a couple of asumptions. For starters you can use something smaller than a laptop, eg. a Raspberry Pi. Secondly you only need the one to talk to the 5GHs, 25GHs, or 50Ghs products, at the high end power consumption the controlling computer becomes insignificant. That's not what the demo showed, now was it? They showed the power draw minus the computer, which is not a fair comparison to a complete Avalon. Ok, add 2.5 watts and $50 for a raspberry Pi to control your BFL rigs. I enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing but this horse has been beat so savagely that it more resembles ground beef than a horse. |
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For a single module a 2.5A 12V wallwart will suffice.
Power Stacking will possible through high current screw terminals or 6Pin VGA Bridge cables (not decided yet).
That way 3-4 Modules could be powered through one 6 Pin VGA Connector.
I would like to suggest that in addition to a barrel jack and 6-pin PCI-e Mini-Fit Jr power connector, that the board also have connectors to accept 12V power from a 4-pin Molex, and also from a SATA-style power connector. Heck, add in some screw terminals too. Also, an on-board header to power a fan would be a nice touch. Software-controlled fanspeed would be even nicer. I'm not sure what the part cost is but it might be cheaper across the runs to support one interface and use adapters for odd-ball combinations. 4-pin Molex would work well combined with some 6-pin PCIe to Molex adapters. |
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we have sent him 47220 usd for two servers the 19th of march from our company account.after signing the contract and got confirmation he has received the money,
i ve waited the delivery.Last saturday 13th of April 2013 was the deadline ,he started not pick up phone nor emails replies since last week.
and i have asked for refund since monday this week without any success.
I am in process now to get the authorities involved.
the delaware adress is only a mailbox,he is operating from philadelphia, and it seems he has already lost a part of my money in gambling
we have sent him 47220 usd for two servers the 19th of march from our company account.after signing the contract and got confirmation he has received the money,
i ve waited the delivery.Last saturday 13th of April 2013 was the deadline ,he started not pick up phone nor emails replies since last week.
we have sent him 47220 usd for two servers the 19th of march from our company account.
sent him 47220 usd
wow, I think I need to let this sink in for a while. Sorry about your losses and good luck getting your money back. I’m surprised he didn’t ask you to pay in BTC. I imagine this should be able to be resolved in an amicable manner. That being said it sounds like you didn't do your due diligence on the product that they were selling. They pretty clearly state what they are selling(overclocked Intel x86 servers + Tesla GPGPU cards) and anyone could have done the calculations given the plethora of information on the web regarding BTC mining on CPUs and GPU. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparisonI've seen you posting around here rabidly searching for a way to jump on the BTC money train. You might want to slow down a bit, read some more and then accept that you are likely not going to see instant results. I don't mean this as an insult but you let your greed drive you and overpower rational thinking. For $47,220 you could have worked with Zefir to acquire 3,000-5,000 Avalon ASICs and then plowed your remaining funds into hiring an engineer(burnin?) to design and program the board. You'd end up with ~1-1.5 TH/s by July if Avalon, Zefir and burnin all proceed without delay. Still a gamble as these boards could be worthless in 6 months but you might make your ROI and then some before then. and see now on his facebook page, he is playing the smart guy by posting a 50miner screenshot how pathetic he is and gambler ,he has alrerady lost 14000 of my 47k this guy is definitvly a fraud, i m seeking to put him in jail or anything similar because these guys are ruining the economy This is where you went wrong. You asked for information and it sounds like in the end they racked up a bunch of Ivy Bridge CPUs with Tesla cards and achieved ~6 GH/s. You did the math, came to the conclusion that this wasn't profitable, so you then opted for the super secret 'Google' machine that you had no test results for. Chances are the "Google" machine is just another rack-mount solution that is tailored to Google's specifications. I suspect he is quoting the sum of the "GHz" across all the CPUs and GPUs. It is misinformation but I don't believe they were attempting to commit fraud. It sounds like a case of a sales person not knowing their product(most sales people) and a discouraged customer who filled in the lack of information with their dreams. You messed up. You bought an expensive but useless product due to not asking for enough information. You backed down at their "Google says we can't test it but we can sell it" and handed over your money. Apologize and find a way to extract yourself from this situation with minimal money losses. |
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we have sent him 47220 usd for two servers the 19th of march from our company account.after signing the contract and got confirmation he has received the money,
i ve waited the delivery.Last saturday 13th of April 2013 was the deadline ,he started not pick up phone nor emails replies since last week.
and i have asked for refund since monday this week without any success.
I am in process now to get the authorities involved.
the delaware adress is only a mailbox,he is operating from philadelphia, and it seems he has already lost a part of my money in gambling
we have sent him 47220 usd for two servers the 19th of march from our company account.after signing the contract and got confirmation he has received the money,
i ve waited the delivery.Last saturday 13th of April 2013 was the deadline ,he started not pick up phone nor emails replies since last week.
we have sent him 47220 usd for two servers the 19th of march from our company account.
sent him 47220 usd
wow, I think I need to let this sink in for a while. Sorry about your losses and good luck getting your money back. I’m surprised he didn’t ask you to pay in BTC. I imagine this should be able to be resolved in an amicable manner. That being said it sounds like you didn't do your due diligence on the product that they were selling. They pretty clearly state what they are selling(overclocked Intel x86 servers + Tesla GPGPU cards) and anyone could have done the calculations given the plethora of information on the web regarding BTC mining on CPUs and GPU. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparisonI've seen you posting around here rabidly searching for a way to jump on the BTC money train. You might want to slow down a bit, read some more and then accept that you are likely not going to see instant results. I don't mean this as an insult but you let your greed drive you and overpower rational thinking. For $47,220 you could have worked with Zefir to acquire 3,000-5,000 Avalon ASICs and then plowed your remaining funds into hiring an engineer(burnin?) to design and program the board. You'd end up with ~1-1.5 TH/s by July if Avalon, Zefir and burnin all proceed without delay. Still a gamble as these boards could be worthless in 6 months but you might make your ROI and then some before then. |
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how many layers this PCB should be? I suppose 4 layers, one would be the GND?
Actually, cheap 2x layers PCB - more then enough. 2 layers, is it easy to copy? Yes, easy. Lot of China facility's will be happy to do 10*10 cm2, 2 layers PCB for .... $0,6...1,0 each with QTY of 100x It's standard price. Hi Alex, you mean to say bring the exact pcb to china and ask them to produced exactly the same and pcb costs is only $0.6 to $1.00? wow that is quite a bit of saving.. compares to the BOM . I believe AlexBBB is stating that if you provide the PCB design file(EAGLE file, etc) then you can have it reproduced cheaply. When Avalon releases their designs you will be able to hand over the PCB design files and have them mass produced if you wanted. Same goes for this project if they are open sourced. |
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I am not sure if I should purchase chips from Zefir and have them forwarded to burnin or if burnin will acquire the chips for me. Waiting on a response back from burnin.
Zefir has mentioned before he can forward them directly to burnin  Ok, in that case just waiting on a little bit of info from burnin before I pull the trigger. edit: If burnin's information is satisfactory I expect I'll be in for 200 chips @ 17.2 BTC. |
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I am not sure if I should purchase chips from Zefir and have them forwarded to burnin or if burnin will acquire the chips for me. Waiting on a response back from burnin.
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Elsewhere people are still buying MMQs. That is like 15 BTC per 1 GH/s at the current exchange rate. I wouldn't be surprised if this auction went to 150 BTC.
I think the same... the whole communication about the price is too high only founds on the assumption that the difficulty will rise very high. I dont believe this in the near future. First, Asicminer cant possibly deploy 250TH. Its too much for the net, the >50 attack comes between and selling them all would only lead to Asicminer mining themselves being more and more worthless. So selling will be limited. Then... which Asiccompany was able to meet their promises always? Asicminer had plans to be way further, BFL should have ship since a long time... but now everyone assumes this will happen in the next weeks? I dont think so. I think even with 100BTC the buyer will make its break even and then pure profit. I might be wrong but the past seems to show that the plans of asiccompanies mostly not come true. Even though i would love if Asicminer would be able to deploy much more hashinpower. Keep in mind ASICMINER'ss options are not just limited to 1) online 250 TH/s 2) sell 250 TH/s. I believe their goal is to online sufficient hardware to maintain a certain percentage of the network. Because Avalon/BFL are so slow to the market, ASICMINER could sell 100 TH/s and online 150 TH/s and not pose a 50% attack. I also imagine BFL would see a massive wave of refunds if ASICMINER starts selling their 10 GH/s boards via a normal website shopping cart. That might spur BFL along a bit as they see their potential profits plummet over time. Youre right... Asicminer could still hold the majority of mining power and sell so much to push competition out. The problem is that they would need to create many many machines. 25000 Erupter Blades with 10GH/s each. This sounds too much to be manageable in a short timeframe. When i see the speed of the past deployment when it still gone forward... But maybe they surprise... Manufacturing the blades is the easy part. Setting them up though and powering them.. that is ~1300 kW/hr of power for 15,000 blades. That's quite the powerbill =) |
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Elsewhere people are still buying MMQs. That is like 15 BTC per 1 GH/s at the current exchange rate. I wouldn't be surprised if this auction went to 150 BTC.
I think the same... the whole communication about the price is too high only founds on the assumption that the difficulty will rise very high. I dont believe this in the near future. First, Asicminer cant possibly deploy 250TH. Its too much for the net, the >50 attack comes between and selling them all would only lead to Asicminer mining themselves being more and more worthless. So selling will be limited. Then... which Asiccompany was able to meet their promises always? Asicminer had plans to be way further, BFL should have ship since a long time... but now everyone assumes this will happen in the next weeks? I dont think so. I think even with 100BTC the buyer will make its break even and then pure profit. I might be wrong but the past seems to show that the plans of asiccompanies mostly not come true. Even though i would love if Asicminer would be able to deploy much more hashinpower. Keep in mind ASICMINER'ss options are not just limited to 1) online 250 TH/s 2) sell 250 TH/s. I believe their goal is to online sufficient hardware to maintain a certain percentage of the network. Because Avalon/BFL are so slow to the market, ASICMINER could sell 100 TH/s and online 150 TH/s and not pose a 50% attack. I also imagine BFL would see a massive wave of refunds if ASICMINER starts selling their 10 GH/s boards via a normal website shopping cart. That might spur BFL along a bit as they see their potential profits plummet over time. |
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I don't know why but I feel I have to play devil's advocate.
To start with, let me say that I feel the price is too high really, but people will be people.
However, why is everyone is saying break even of 49 days is something awful? This is a 10GHash miner running at about 90W. It will still be profitable past 150M difficulty (1200THash). Assuming that it does break even after 60 days, and at that point Avalon batch 2 has fully arrived, and BFL has shipped something, you will still be making money for a long time to come, assuming price doesn't plummet to $10 (in which case tons of people are going to be unhappy).
It's not the buy of the century which is why I suggested caution earlier, but it's certainly not a bad deal even at a slightly inflated price.
For the sake of argument, here's my counter. 49 days assumes the difficulty does not change. Assuming ASICMINER onlines their next 50 TH/s and Avalon's next batch of 20 TH/s ships at the same time, you are looking maybe 120 TH/s on the network. You're now talking a ~100 day ROI. This isn't too bad, and I suspect by the time the network hits 120 TH/s you will have paid off the majority of the cost for one of these boards, if ASICMINER ships within a few days of the auction ending. However, ASICMINER plans on a 200 TH/s deployment after this 50 TH/s deployment which will then result in a 4x difficulty increase and you're now talking a 1 year ROI. None of this factors in BFL which, if they ever deliver, has I believe several hundred TH/s of orders to fulfill. In the end if you receive your board in the next month I think you'll pay 30-40 BTC. I feel the real price for these boards will be around 10-20 BTC as you're going to end up with serious issues around profitability in a few months. |
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The lowest bid @ 32 BTC has a payoff period of 49 days at current difficulty. The problem is I think ASICMINER plans on selling/mining with another 250 TH/s in the coming months. This is a gamble but I don't think it'll payoff like 1st wave Avalon orders did.
It sounds like there will be a few more auctions and then ASICMINER will set a price and sell some more boards in bulk. At that time I might be interested in a group buy.
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I can swing a 2 module Avalon, 3 module was just a bit too much for my BTC stash.
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I would suggest using a trusted member from the community to work as an escrow holder and chip distributor. 780 BTC is a significant amount to trust to a random individual. Perhaps setup something like minimum 1,000 chips to reduce the workload on the escrow holder and provide them a percentage fee to make it worth their while to deal with shipping and such.
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Interesting concept. Flip the chips, slap a heatsink onto the PCB and perhaps you have something. I'm not EE but I suspect something like this could work. No clue how effective power and signal integrity would be over the pinned connections. Maybe someone can chime in on that.
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Hi Guys,
I'm an electronics HW design engineer with around 10years exp. The company I work for has designed mil spec electronics HW including mil spec ASICs.
Prototype ASICs are usually epoxy encased. The picture could be showing a BGA type Epoxy encased ASIC, hence the rounded side. BGA devices have the pins at the bottom.
Plastic encapsulation, with sharp square edges, doesn't occur until mass production.
TH components are commonly used throughout the prototype stage. The switch to Full SMD design happens later during mass production.
The TH components near the pictured ASICs could be, as mentioned before... micro-controller based ICs.
Just my 2 cents.
So english? Do you think this is legit? Lol He is saying it is possible, at a prototyping stage, to have a board and ICs that look like those given by CedarTec. That however doesn't confirm whether or not CedarTec is legit or an 'elaborate' scam. If they provided information like Avalon did such as the contracts with their foundry, verification of correctness and such, it would help to dispel all the 'scam, it's a scam, obvious scam' comments. |
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I'd buy one if they're under $50.
You want 300Mh/s for $50? That's called a 5830. These would be far easier to manage. I personally would rather deal with the logistics of powering 15 300 MH/s 2.5w USB sticks than powering my 7 650 MH/s 275w HD 5970s. |
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Meh. At the current exchange rate you're still going to make your ROI in a couple of days. If after that you want to sell it, let me know. Been mining since 2011, there are ups and downs, I weather the downs for the ups.
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Please publish whatever information you can regarding costs from Avalon. I'm interested in the boards but depending on the heatsink costs and shipping costs I might just want the completed/tested boards.
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GPU/FPGA miners have already become the minority with regards to hashing throughput. Sure, I don't have actual numbers, but we're around 60 TH/s at the moment compared to ~20 TH/s a few months ago. Even if the remaining GPU/FPGA miners leave, it would have a minimal affect on BTC. It does concern me though that mining has gone from a hobbyist project to a concentrated business so quickly. More, cheaper mining devices would help push this off a bit.
Actually, that is false. The majority of the network as it stands right now (over 60 TH) is still comprised of GPUs and FPGAs. Avalon has only 19-20 TH in the wild and ASICMiner only has online about 7 TH at this time. Of course, this is subject to grow in the next weeks, but still, that only accounts for ~26-27 TH of the entire network. Unless there are some ghost ASICs hashing away in a hidden Illuminati bunker, most of the network is still made up of old tech. The recent growth spurt the network went through (and I'm talking about the last couple of weeks) is due to the price going to insane heights and luring in more GPU miners from the general public. Ok so at this time let's just say ASICs form 50% of the network. If the 25-30 TH/s of GPU/FPGA users leave, in a few weeks they will be happily replaced by the 2nd wave of ASICMINER and 2nd wave of Avalon users. The price won't collapse as the same amount of BTC are generated each day. The amount of BTC changing hands on the exchanges are not affected by the 3600 coins minted each day. The network won't be any less secure than it was pre-ASIC. Nothing would change. |
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Given how your photos show you have packaged chips, you can demo your prototype to eliminate most of the concerns people have. I am curious how you are mounting your heatsink to the chips shown given the lack of convenient holes through the PCBs around your chips.
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