@Theymos Do you know someone able to access the database of glbse so that you can make a backup just in case? I dont want to hear at one time that all data is lost or something. Or that i have to join a new platform to get my shares and joining the new platform wouldnt be good for me.
Can you reveal the usernames of the glbse-shareholders? Are they reputated forummembers? Maybe they should say some words too when they know more.
As part of the "Nefario gets hit by a bus" plan, 4 of 5 shareholders selected by Nefario could maybe get Nefario's passwords and wallet if Nefario is incompetent enough to have not prevented this attack already. I already tried this route, though, and only 2-3 applicable shareholders are willing to do it. I don't know how else you'd get the database. I don't want to publish the shareholder list. Many people who opposed Nefario would like to remain anonymous, and even the people who supported him are decent enough people who I don't want to "out". Some of the shareholders did comment in this thread without saying that they're shareholders. |
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However, if Nefario is being compelled to do these things under threat of force (govt), should he still be given the scammer tag? Normally the burden of proof would be on him to prove he's under duress, but what if he's not allowed to, again under threat of force? That was one of my first concerns with the situation with Nefario/Goat, and it still is now.
Laws and regulations are a pain, and make things a lot more complicated than they need to be.
First of all, while he could be under legal pressure, I don't think that's the most likely possibility. He was spending money on hiring programmers as recently as two weeks ago. IMO it's most likely that he was just scared by his lawyer. [05/10/2012 17:24:11] <nefario> meeting lawyer on wed. for the details [05/10/2012 18:05:04] <nefario> xxx: we COULD go against what my lawyer says [05/10/2012 18:05:07] <nefario> the result would be [05/10/2012 18:05:11] <nefario> GLBSE gets shut down [05/10/2012 18:05:16] <nefario> and I get imprisoned It sounds to me like his TYGRR action was a response to his lawyer's concerns, not a legal order. [05/10/2012 17:10:36] <nefario> goat had to be taken off GLBSE ASAP, codes was the quickest thing I could come up with [05/10/2012 17:51:38] <nefario> xxx: I didn't get to talk to you about what the lawyer recommended on Goat Even if he is under legal pressure, he took the CEO job while knowing the legal risks. The first version of the GLBSE client was called "blackMarket". I wouldn't blame him for choosing freedom over shareholder interests, but I can blame him for getting himself into this situation. Also, assuming he's being manipulated by the government now, Nefario can't be trusted until we know the real story and we're sure he's not still being manipulated by the government. |
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This raises the question: What is the bus factor of Bitcointalk? 4-5. The database backups can be decrypted by me, justmoon, Gavin, Sirius, and Satoshi. The encrypted backups are distributed among many people. |
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what was nefario's reasoning for closing GLBSE?
[05/10/2012 16:25:51] <nefario> what MY problem actually is [05/10/2012 16:25:54] <nefario> 1) [05/10/2012 16:26:00] <nefario> AML [05/10/2012 16:26:01] <nefario> 2) [05/10/2012 16:26:03] <nefario> tax [05/10/2012 16:26:05] <nefario> 3) [05/10/2012 16:26:07] <nefario> regulations [05/10/2012 16:26:09] <nefario> in that order [05/10/2012 16:32:52] <nefario> I don't need your approval for this, I don't have much choice He managed to convince some of you to support him, so he must have had a good argument, what was it?
Nefario promised to start a 100% legal stock exchange after GLBSE is closed and transfer the BitcoinGlobal shares over. Clearly, this will be super successful.  [05/10/2012 17:43:33] <shareholder 1> lets just trust nefario and gets going. [05/10/2012 17:49:27] <shareholder 2> i truly think that if we reveal the plans to make it legit, this will turn around support in the community (at least the bright side of it) and new investments would flow if needed [05/10/2012 18:53:41] <shareholder 2> of clourse you can do what you want, but it would be better for you and everyone to help the wind down of glbse in a clean way Some other shareholders became resigned to GLBSE's fate and were at least somewhat convinced by Nefario's dreams of BitcoinGlobal's future. |
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When were you planning on disclosing this aspect of your role in relation to the sale of your stake in GLBSE?
I mentioned it briefly in my sale thread. And I've mentioned it before in other places. Theymos, as treasurer, shouldn't you be the one to disperse the funds to their rightful owners? Why would you be sending the funds to Nefario in the first place, even if you had no knowledge of his treachery?
I don't have the user database. Nefario has defrauded me and others in several different ways and deserves a scammer tag.
- He has stated that he would ignore any motion to remove him as CEO.
One thing I constantly warn people about is self-censorship. If you think it is a good thing to remove Nefario as CEO, then put up a motion, and let him ignore it and take responsibility for this. By not putting up a motion because "he would ignore it", you are simply letting him go on as CEO. Please do not censor yourself, and do what you think is right for GLBSE regardless of what you think Nefario might do then. That could protect you in the future. (disclaimer: I don't have any coin or share on GLBSE) Theymos, please read this post. I also urge you not to give any BTC to Nefario. Thanks. I tried to remove him as CEO, but there wasn't enough shareholder support. 5-6 people supported removing him against three (including Nefario) who didn't, but our side didn't have enough shares for a motion. Three large shareholders weren't at the meeting, so it was difficult to get the 51% required. Later on in the meeting, Nefario somehow managed to convince 1-2 of the people who had supported removing Nefario, which is how he was able to pass a motion to order me to give him the treasury funds. So I doubt a motion to remove Nefario is possible now even if the absent shareholders voted. It doesn't matter anyway, since Nefario said that he would ignore the shareholders and shut down GLBSE. And shutting down GLBSE is against the bylaws, so he needs a 66% vote. He didn't even pursue a 50% vote. What would I do with the money if I kept it? I don't have the user database. |
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Bottom of the first page for me. Indeed they are. Love it or hate it but bitcointalk does deserve a spot on the first page of search results for "bitcoin". Too bad that G was driven insane recently by SEO guys. According to SEO people advising me the latest iteration of G algo makes no sense whatsoever, quality of SERP's is very bad. G basically brings random low quality websites on top while burying hiqh quality authority websites. G reportedly slowly comes back to its senses after the last update but not by much so far. Too bad that they have sacrificed search results relevance in favor of hell knows what.
One suggestion I heard is that they make more money on ads by having worse search results quality and thus pushing people to click on paid ads (that are suddenly more relevant than natural search) and by making people click on pages 2 3 4 etc... in search of something relevant.
I've noticed that Google's quality has declined over the past couple of years. From time to time I try to use a different search engine, but they all seem worse than Google. Maybe searching has just become more difficult. |
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(Round 53 will be only ~4 days long. The top 10 bidders in round 52 will get slots there.)
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In order to collect more money for the creation of good forum software, the forum is selling ad space in the area beneath the first post of every topic page. Ads this week will be allowed to contain any non-annoying HTML/CSS style. No images, JavaScript, or animation (no marquee or blinking). Ads must appear 3 or fewer lines tall in my browser. Ads will be prefixed with "Advertisement:". Ad text may not contain lies, misrepresentation, or inappropriate language. Ads may not link directly to any NSFW page. Ads may be rejected for other reasons. There are 10 total ad slots which are randomly rotated. So one ad slot has a one in ten chance of appearing. Eight of the slots are for sale here. Ads appear only on topic pages with more than one post, and only for people using the default theme. The ad lasts 7 days starting from when I put it up. StatsExact historical impression counts per slot: https://bitcointalk.org/adrotate.php?adstatsEfficacy stats: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54182.0Info about the current ad slots: https://bitcointalk.org/adrotate.php?adinfoAuction rulesPost your bids in this thread. Prices must be stated in BTC per slot. You must state the max number of slots you want. When the auction ends, the highest bidders will have their slots filled until all eight slots are filled. So if someone bids for 8 slots @ 5 BTC and this is the highest bid, then he'll get all 8 slots. If the two highest bids are 8 slots @ 4 BTC and 1 slot @ 5 BTC, then the first person will get 7 slots and the second person will get 1 slot. - When you post a bid, the bids in your previous posts are considered to be automatically canceled. You can put multiple bids in one post, however. - All bid prices must be evenly divisible by 0.25. - The bidding starts at 0.5. - The auction end time is 17:00:00 on October 14, UTC. Countdown. (The end time may be extended -- see below.) - If two people bid at the same price, the person who bid first will have his slots filled first. - Bids are considered invalid and will be ignored if they do not specify both a price and a max quantity, or if they could not possibly win any slots If any valid bids occur less than 30 minutes before the auction end time, then the auction will be extended by 30 minutes. If any valid bids occur less than 30 minutes before the new end time, then the auction will be extended again, etc. The time will not extend beyond 6 hours total. You must pay for your slots within 24 hours of receiving the payment address. Otherwise your slots may be sold to someone else. |
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Could you clarify this a bit please theymos. How did he have access to the user deposits? If he was "borrowing" them without authorisation, that's straight up embezzlement regardless of whether he intended to return them at a later time. When did the shareholders become aware that he was spending user deposits and how did you become aware of his intention to replace them with money from BitcoinGlobal? I'm confused about whether the shareholders effectively authorised him taking a "loan" from the business post hoc by agreeing that he would pay back the misappropriated funds from BG money.
I hate to say it, but if you send Nefario user funds knowing full well that he has already misappropriated funds, you're laying yourself wide open to liability. His access to funds needs to be blocked and a way of returning user deposits worked out which doesn't involve Nefario.
Nefario has always held onto most of the user funds so he could top up the hot wallet when necessary. Exactly what funds I should hold was never clearly-defined. I ended up holding all BitcoinGlobal cash on hand plus some of the user funds for when Nefario was away and the hot wallet needed to be refilled. I assume he's spending user deposits. Maybe he's using his own money, but I don't think he has enough to cover lawyer fees. He said in the meeting that he wants BitcoinGlobal to pay for the lawyer. |
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We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order. What nonsense. I hold a very small percentage of user funds. 600-800 BTC. He can't even start paying back users without that? And I already said I'd send that part to him. He hasn't given me an address yet. |
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These ads are now up. Thanks!
The top 10 bidders will get a few extra days.
I'll post a new auction thread tomorrow.
20 cablepair - OK
2 usagi - UNPAID
2 Akemashite Omedetou - OK
1 PsychoticBoy - UNPAID
.88 Pirate Cove OK -- paid extra, thanks!
.77 Garr255 - Donated instead. Thanks!
.5 xchrix - OK
.5 Mobius - OK
.42 jga - OK
.4 tgmarks - OK
.3 slush - OK
.3 wmx.support _ Donated instead. Thanks!
.25 wmXchange - Donated instead. Thanks!
.25 mc_lovin - OK
.21 kano - OK
.2 Luceo - OK
.2 Grix - OK
.2 DeathAndTaxes - OK
.17 OneVillain - OK
.15 Cryptostocks - OK
.14 Kumala - OK
.11 kakobrekla - OK
.11 Goat - UNPAID
.1 TangibleCryptography - OK
.1 edd - OK
.1 CoinLab - OK
.1 segabtc - OK
.1 caramon - OK
.1 shad0wbitz - OK
.09 Micon - OK
.07 FreeMoney - OK
.05 Inaba - OK
.05 rate5 - OK
.05 boonies4u - OK
.05 MrTeal - OK
.05 bitcoinhu - Donated instead. Thanks!
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@Theymos
You said you are managing the cash reserves... so why did you allow that nefario take money for lawyer from there? Or what does this "manage" include?
He didn't inform me. He illegally spent GLBSE user deposits with the expectation that he would replace this money from the BitcoinGlobal treasury later. Which he's unfortunately correct about -- I can't withhold the money from him when this means that there won't be enough money for GLBSE users. But GLBSE doesn't have a lot of money (only about 600 BTC IIRC). If he continues paying for stuff, this money will run out. |
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So if you want to remain anonymous, you go penniless?
Yes. It's a terrible betrayal. Can you believe that some of the shareholders think that this will be, "the cleanest shutdown in Bitcoin history"? |
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Identity meaning what exactly? Will my login credentials and deposit address suffice?
MtGox-style AML documents. |
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GLBSE should have been a black market operation, no offense. The fact that the founder is known and visible and that the exchange is centralized is a big red flag.
Agreed. I always argued that GLBSE should be an unregulated platform for trades. |
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Theymos, at least you had the sense to attempt to liquidate your involvement. Thank you for the info.
I knew Nefario was a terrible businessman and that his plans were stupid (which is why I was selling), but I didn't know he was this stupid. I wish I would have sold for 0.06 when I had the chance. I actually didn't have that much invested, fortunately. Most of that 23% I was selling were shares I was selling for others. |
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Even with a very small balance?
Yes according to Nefario. |
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GLBSE user funds are more or less safe, but I have bad news from the GLBSE shareholder meeting.
Nefario has, without a shareholder motion and in violation of the bylaws and GLBSE ToS, decided to close down GLBSE. Users will be able to collect deposits only after submitting identity info. A similar system to the one that Goat was forced to use will be provided so that assets can be traded elsewhere.
He is also illegally using user deposits to pay for his lawyer. If he continues, the GLBSE cash reserves (which I manage) will not be enough to cover costs and GLBSE will be in debt to users.
I'm very sorry about this, but those shareholders who are sane are helpless against Nefario and the insane shareholders who for some mind-boggling reason think that closing down GLBSE in this way will help both themselves and GLBSE users.
Since Nefario refuses to give complete details about his legal concerns and he has been acting strangely, I feel that it is somewhat possible that Nefario is working under some sort of plea bargain and is gathering IDs for future prosecution.
Nefario has defrauded me and others in several different ways and deserves a scammer tag.
- The BitcoinGlobal bylaws state that BitcoinGlobal's purpose is to operate GLBSE. By shutting down GLBSE without amending the bylaws, Nefario has violated the bylaws.
- He has stated that he would ignore any motion to remove him as CEO.
- He is knowingly making BitcoinGlobal shares worthless, violating his fiduciary duty.
- He is refusing to release my GLBSE balance without my ID, which I did not agree to.
Since my GLBSE shares are now worthless, it should be obvious that I had no knowledge of this before now.
I urge everyone to never work with Nefario again. A Bitcoin stock exchange is a good idea, though. I hope that someone will create something better than GLBSE and MPEx.
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I restored that topic to off-topic. I was on the fence about it, but allowed it to stay deleted because it has no real substance and the author often seems to be trolling.
A list of post removals isn't difficult. I'll write it later.
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Since size is no longer a problem, I increased the allowed number of characters in signatures to 2000. I strongly disapprove of the signature change. I have my own threads I would like to advertise in my signature and I can't because there is not enough room now.
Use a smaller font. |
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