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We don't have a futures market but we have a big spot market, which is Mt. Gox. The nature of Bitcoin allows spot trading to be easily done.
Bitcoinica has the right to determine the prices for everyone trading on the platform. We are pegged to Mt. Gox prices at the moment, because it's in our best interest to do so (until we have another exchange to effectively hedge on). We never make any guarantees on price accuracy but we are showing every single price point (especially extreme price points) in our charts since the site was launched!
Bitcoinica has traded over 8 million Bitcoins since launch. The business is highly sustainable and scalable. So we seriously want to act responsibly for our customers.
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going long on bitcoinica is getting quite expensive per day per 100 btc....
If you use exchange feature you don't have to pay interest. If you borrow money to buy the 100 BTC then you need to pay 25 cents per day at current interest rate. yet right now a short pays nothing. i am not clear why borrowing btc to sell also does not cost something let alone pays most of the time. how do you calculate such things? edited to add: i just sent some btc from bitcoinica to an address and it has said pending for the last 42 minutes... odd that something has to sit like that for so long. I should have seen it at least hit the network right away or are you doing something manually? BTC costs less to get (depending on available customer deposits) and USD costs more. The interest rate difference determines the swap. |
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going long on bitcoinica is getting quite expensive per day per 100 btc....
If you use exchange feature you don't have to pay interest. If you borrow money to buy the 100 BTC then you need to pay 25 cents per day at current interest rate. |
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In a foreign exchange market, you always have a position.
By holding only fiat, you are implicitly short BTC. As BTC goes down, the purchasing power of your fiat, relative to BTC goes up. That is, you can buy more BTC with the same fiat at the lower BTC price.
"Short," in the Bitcoinica sense, treats BTC like a commodity, loaning coins to you to sell now and allowing you to buy them back later.
So, the bottom line is this: do you view BTC as a currency or as a commodity?
Forex brokers don't understand like this. You can short EUR/CHF with USD with your broker. There's no implicit shorting or whatever. Bitcoinica uses the same understanding - your currency account is used to back your leveraged position, and the position itself is an entirely different thing. If other markets are liquid enough, maybe one day you can short NMC/LTC with a mix of BTC and USD. |
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Doing this can result in your Bitcoinica account being closed. We don't allow fraudulent orders that try to cheat the pricing bot.
We are rolling out a major rewrite of our order matching engine for much faster order processing to eliminate the possibility of fraudulent orders.
EDIT: We closed one account during the early days of Bitcoinica because of fraudulent trading. After that, we implemented pricing algorithm version 2, and it's harder to manipulate the price now. We are going to release pricing algorithm version 4 soon.
fraudulent orders??? LOL, it is you who is defrauding your customers by not accepting all orders - like a casino that asks you to leave if you are winning too much. cheat the pricing bot??? BWAHAHA, the 'pricing bot' forces you to pay a 2% spread when MtGox has a spread a tenth of that and you don't even have to pay it - who is cheating who? Mt. Gox spread isn't always effective spread. If the order is 0.1 ฿ it shouldn't be counted. Try looking for 50 ฿ liquidity on each side, and then add your Mt. Gox fee. Is Bitcoinica expensive after all? If you're paying 0.6% on Mt. Gox, you can almost always get a better deal on Bitcoinica. |
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Ouch. That has to sting. So "generous" of them to offer a whole year of service. I will never do business with Linode.
They knew we would never do business with Linode again. So the credit is pretty much worthless. |
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This post is intended to inform all interested parties about Linode's response to Bitcoinica. [829136] LINODE SECURITY BREACH -- $222,520 STOLEN
Status Opened Last Updated Closed On Regarding
CLOSED 21 days ago by bitcoinica 17 hours ago by tasaro 17 hours ago by tasaro Other Dear Zhou,
The entire Linode team would like to sincerely apologize for the security incident that affected your account. We let you down, and this is not the quality of service that we ourselves and our customers expect and deserve.
We want you to know that security has always been one of Linode's top priorities. Our entire team has dedicated themselves these past few weeks towards improving our procedures and policies relating to platform security.
As an act of good faith we have applied one year of service credit to your account. All of us are truly sorry for any inconvenience you incurred. We appreciate your business and hope that you will continue to host with Linode in the future.
Sincerely,
Thomas Asaro
Vice President
Linode |
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i used 50 like example because that is the chunk used on bitcoinica and now the 5000 you wont be all hedged you only hedge a part because of that when there is a major change in the marker the hedge on bitcoinica goes over 100%
if bitcoinica is not designed to move the price why offer leverage ? remove the sell and buy buttons and put some sitting ducks
bitcoinica to liquid give me a break 20 000 btc traded in last 24h that amount of bitcoins can be moved by a single user
if you go to the point take or leave it there is not much i can say on that other that leave it
If you buy or sell 5000 BTC now I can guarantee you more than 90% will be hedged, and you will move the price. The over-100% hedging has nothing to do with this. Bitcoinica is more liquid than Mt. Gox. (Bitcoinica liquidity = Bitcoinica dark pool + Mt. Gox order book) Again, liquidity has nothing to do with volume. We are going to release our limit order book and all executed trades to the public. Will announce the details soon. |
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I am sorry, until you stop abusing the English language and start forming complete thoughts, I give up.
how i explain you this lets say we have this perfect situation where the price is 5 usd the sell is 4,99 buy is 5,01 low awesome spread  a 50 btc buy or sell will move the price 0,02 USD now i make a sell order at 12:00:00 for 50 btc and you make a buy order at 12:00:02 for 50 btc our orders are not internally matched because my order was 2 seconds earlier that yours my order gets executed the sell price goes down at 4,97 you buy order get executed the buy price goes to 5,03 this did change the price if our orders get internally matched nothing have changed and you or me have to spend additionally bitcoin to move the price u get my point ? Firstly, if it's 5000 btc not 50, I can guarantee that it will be hedged. Secondly, Bitcoinica was not designed to move the price. With the same amount of money, you almost always end up with more bought Bitcoins on Bitcoinica (without leverage). That's because your orders are being executed in 50 ฿ blocks. Thirdly, you can move the price more effectively at smaller exchanges. Bitcoinica is just too liquid for you. It depends on your definition of trading. You have the choice, but you can't prevent others from getting a better deal than you. |
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Forex has no centralized market. So this guarantee is simply invalid. Any citations?
nobody wants to trade where all order have internal matching, especially in a market like this when a buy or sell can change the current price preventing any matching if i sell the 50 at 4.82 the price goes down so is impossible to match my order with a buy order at same price, internal matching is reducing the impact i have on bitcoin market you tend to forget that you forget that we need market swing to make decent money but also you forget that when there are no swing the volume on bitcoinica drops like a rock If it's impossible to match, we will sell at Mt. Gox. That's guaranteed! We either match your order with another Bitcoinica customer or another Mt. Gox customer. There's no difference in market impact. |
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We hope to. We have nowhere to copy the good ideas from.
any forex/CFD can give you some ideas, they have stuff like 100% order execution you can copy that Forex has no centralized market. So this guarantee is simply invalid. Any citations? |
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It's not a time buffer but an amount buffer. We don't disclose the exact amount, but it's definitely under 1000 ฿.
internal matching go against the users everybody loses only bitcoinica wins money by saving mtgox fees, user dont have a alternative to bitcoinica and have to eat this crap, lets hope somebody make a alternative and you get some competition We hope to. We have nowhere to copy the good ideas from. |
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a couple of days ago finally got out of the nightmare scenario of being trapped in a large high $5s base price long position on Bitcoinica which would have been fine as my ZT price was in the $2s originally & I was happy to wait long term & could have kept it at 1:1 leverage np, until that was he unilaterally decided to start taxing long positions with swap charges, to me this is just Bitcoin wild west no rules rule - I'm waiting to see if his stated registration goes through because once it does I intend to claim back that swap money just removed from my account by changing without notice the conditions under which it was deposited & making my position long term untenable so that I had to close it for a big loss as I believe this sort of action is totally illegitimate in any jurisdiction
anyone else who's suffered because of this pse to let me know & we can coordinate to recuperate this blatant rip off with damages also for overall position loss if it hadn't happened once we were locked in
it's so nice atm to finally be out of that & tomorrow off for a long weekend without having to follow every price movement & the feeling of having trusted way too much money to someone who just makes the rules up to suit themselves as they go along, honestly I was amazed to get anything back out at all in that scenario - never again!
We can offer a refund if you were charged any swap for a position that you established before the rule change provided there is no new positions established after that. By continue using our service, you have already signaled the acceptance of the new rule. |
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I think they would match internally against buyers first, since they then don't have to pay a gox transaction fee.
I understand why they would want to do that...I'm just not sure if they realize it is at odds with the whole nature and point of shorting to begin with. If a person's transactions have no real effect on the market, it is incredibly easy to fuck with people if you know there are a lot of people leveraged (recent starfish problem, and now an "interest" problem).
Also...in the real world 10,000 leveraged buys is a 10k move in the marketplace. If you do that on bitcoinica, you're exposing yourself to 10k risk without the real world benefit of just buying 10k shares.
We match internally only when we can. If one customer buys 100 and the other sells 50. We just buy 50 from the market, instead of buying 100 and then selling 50, which merely removes liquidity and increases transaction costs. Like I said, I understand why you do it. What is your window to buffer a matched order? It's not a time buffer but an amount buffer. We don't disclose the exact amount, but it's definitely under 1000 ฿. |
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I think they would match internally against buyers first, since they then don't have to pay a gox transaction fee.
I understand why they would want to do that...I'm just not sure if they realize it is at odds with the whole nature and point of shorting to begin with. If a person's transactions have no real effect on the market, it is incredibly easy to fuck with people if you know there are a lot of people leveraged (recent starfish problem, and now an "interest" problem).
Also...in the real world 10,000 leveraged buys is a 10k move in the marketplace. If you do that on bitcoinica, you're exposing yourself to 10k risk without the real world benefit of just buying 10k shares.
We match internally only when we can. If one customer buys 100 and the other sells 50. We just buy 50 from the market, instead of buying 100 and then selling 50, which merely removes liquidity and increases transaction costs. |
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Doing this can result in your Bitcoinica account being closed. We don't allow fraudulent orders that try to cheat the pricing bot.
We are rolling out a major rewrite of our order matching engine for much faster order processing to eliminate the possibility of fraudulent orders.
EDIT: We closed one account during the early days of Bitcoinica because of fraudulent trading. After that, we implemented pricing algorithm version 2, and it's harder to manipulate the price now. We are going to release pricing algorithm version 4 soon.
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well it's been over 8 hours now & I haven't heard anything, not that I was expecting to of course & I'm still unable to withdraw my slowly dwindling Net Value balance now at $350.99 or liquidate or do anything at all on my Bitcoinica account & yes a base price of $4,389,544,719,889,099,776 hmmm - a little steep maybe  Try this: Buy 0.03 ฿, and the liquidate again. Try this: just restore my $351.70 Net Value so that I can withdraw it & please to remove your crazy false Active Positions on my account, plus fix your coding so that it actually does maths instead of "Active Positions ~ Amount = 9.99200722162641e-16" just what is that FFS! when I have a zero position! is all the back end coded like this? over 10 hours now... & no satisfaction  I have already cleared up the position and all the funds in your account are available for withdrawal. Thank you for your patience! Did I somehow do you wrong and end up on your ignore list? I've tried to be courteous, but I've been waiting almost a week for anything from Bitcoinica support, I posted in the Zero-Spread thread (even defending you against someone who said you were trying to rip us off) probably close to a week ago as well and you never responded, I posted on this thread three days ago, I PMed you with a link to my post describing what happened and inquiring whether my position could be restored (150BTC short, base was around 4.845) with my account name (matharis), and despite answering multiple other people's questions in the meantime, here I sit with my questions unanswered. I would have previously recommended Bitcoinica for people who wanted to trade bitcoins, but now all I can think about is the deplorable customer service that I have yet to even receive. This is beyond ridiculous, you respond to the crazy guy who is trying to sue you, but you won't even give me the time of day? Edited to change steal to rip off and to include what my position was. Hi, I'm really sorry about this. I thought I had compensated everyone affected. In your case, you should be liquidated at $5.4+ because the market price actually went there. If you have any stop orders which were executed at high prices, you can receive $0.13 per BTC for them. Otherwise, there's nothing wrong with our ask ticks. |
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Just wondering can I use my bitcoinica address as my p2pool payout address? p2pool pays out through generations like in solomining.
I will verify for you on this. However, I personally don't recommend you doing such things. You should collect mining profits in your own wallet. |
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Because of liquidity and volatility issues, even forced margin call trading might not happen fast enough for some accounts. It is then possible to lose more than you have in your account. As a result you would then have a negative balance and owe Bitcoinica money
Having 10X leverage means you can end up owing a lot more than you ever wanted to.
Now what ends up happening is some traders will go negative and just open a new account. That's a problem for Bitcoinica, as I've seen mentioned before, so it may end up that identity (and maybe a credit check even) will be necessary for highly leveraged (5X) accounts or eventually for all accounts even someday.
When this sort of negative balance situation happens, it is the traders fault or the service providers fault? Should the trader really be liable for more than their deposit? Customers are liable for negative balances in the case of stock and futures brokers. Any margin trading policy should include a statement that the trader is liable for more than the deposit. It's not the service provider's fault because sometimes the liquidity is not enough to support forced liquidations, especially when the overnight/weekend gap occurs. (The price can jump up or down a few percent without any trading volume in between.) |
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well it's been over 8 hours now & I haven't heard anything, not that I was expecting to of course & I'm still unable to withdraw my slowly dwindling Net Value balance now at $350.99 or liquidate or do anything at all on my Bitcoinica account & yes a base price of $4,389,544,719,889,099,776 hmmm - a little steep maybe Try this: Buy 0.03 ฿, and the liquidate again. Try this: just restore my $351.70 Net Value so that I can withdraw it & please to remove your crazy false Active Positions on my account, plus fix your coding so that it actually does maths instead of "Active Positions ~ Amount = 9.99200722162641e-16" just what is that FFS! when I have a zero position! is all the back end coded like this? over 10 hours now... & no satisfaction I have already cleared up the position and all the funds in your account are available for withdrawal. Thank you for your patience! |
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