"[7:25:46 PM] Dan Hughes - eMunie: They can complain, the complainers are the ones that will get us into trouble selling children"


My problem was not with whether child slavery is an issue. It was with Dan suggesting that the complainers (e.g. me) had nefarious intentions. He basically said that if you have a problem with how he's planned things, then you are obviously a criminal wanting to use the system for nasty things.

It's a cheap way of discrediting your critics.

I hope you can see the difference.

Could you provide links please? I don't remember this at all.


edit: to be honest it has nothing to do with my post anyway. When I said I'd put in a lot of effort, I meant when I went back to the chatbox and explained my reasons, and also my posts on this forum, outlining in detail why I left.

I still dont know what your referring to though.

I assure you I hold no delusions about stopping emunie. I can however undo some of the damage I did promoting it, by now presenting the facts. This was all I intended and I'm reasonably content that I've done so to the best of my ability (though I'd have liked to do it on your forum too).

No one should complain about that unless they don't want the facts out there.

If people would stop trying to hide the truth while asking for money, then we could get along very well.

We're talking about the IPO which will be held long before (if ever) the code is released.

If Dan wants to reward himself more, he should be open about doing so.

I believe the java is "obfuscated" (I am not a coder as Peachy has so eloquently pointed out)

I see you've gone back and edited this post so I'll reply to it.

What is shows is that Dan considers other peoples views as dangerous to his agenda and therefore he accuses them of having nefarious intent (child slavery of all things).

I've put a lot of effort into explaining my many reasons for leaving. Of course I cant speak for the founders, but I'd think you'd have realised by now the various possibilities. You are doing the same thing that Dan, Visin and others have done: trying to misrepresent people to make their reasons disappear or seem ludicrous.

Shame on you.

Ironically, you have sidestepped my question.


I guess we're done here.

Anyone reading that thread will quickly see whos moral character is lacking.

This constant accusation of "NSA-supported behaviors" is frankly ludicrous and makes you look quite ridiculous.

Why don't you address my concerns rather than attacking me?

Tell me something, what do you think he gains by leaving the names of innocents in the post? Since he's such an evil genius, there must be something.

Or perhaps he just made a mistake in the heat of emotion, like so many round here. 

My experience of MrV would suggest this to me. YMMV.

You accuse me of being a child while ranting like one. It seems all you can do is attack me personally rather than present facts as they are. Shame.

Heres a few facts for you:

I was always near the top of the earnings list so have nothing to complain about on a personal level.

The damning material showed Dan's true beliefs about other peoples ideas and therefore is very relevant. Not damning on its own maybe, but relevant nonetheless.

I'm glad Dan has now fixed the "bug" where he was getting 10x more than everyone else. I hope future investors will keep a close eye on this.

This was only one of my reasons for leaving, as you well know.

I have no regrets for having left as I followed my conscience and continue to do so.

Ah, no I cant defend that. He should have blotted them out. My apologies, I thought you were talking about the material in general.



None of which changes my mind about MrV's principles, as I have already explained.

As I have pointed out, I didn't defend MrV until after your accusation, so don' try and use it as evidence. Your mind is obviously clouded at the moment. I suggest you take a step back before posting again.

As I've already stated, MrV is definitely a man of principles.


Tell me, do you think Dan's words above are relevant to a future investor?

The link that you refer to does not include material from this private conversation at all. I wrote that post before I'd even read the skype conversation.

Dans identity was released by him, not me. It's no secret. So he hasn't released mine. That's hardly merit for a medal now is it? Besides which no one accused him of doing so.

The first time I defended MrV was AFTER your post.

The rest of your post is just gibberish quite honestly. Maybe you should go calm down before you post again.

On MrV's principles


MrV gave up hours of his life every day for 8 (?) months in order to help develop emunie for free.

When he realised that the developer was unworthy of his trust, he threw that all away to follow his conscience.

He now finds himself in possession of damning material, showing the developer as he truly is which is obviously relevant to prospective investors. He decides to publish this material knowing full well his ex-colleagues will react just like they have.


I don't think it's MrV's integrity which is in question here.

How so? I quoted a post made on a public forum. It showed Dans name and his words. Both are already in the public realm.

Also, I haven't defended anyone (so far).


Honestly the way people throw around accusations of being "NSA", perhaps Godwin's Law should be updated to include it.

By the way, congratulations on your meteoric rise from Newbie to Founder in less that one month. That's quite an achievement.

Also, it's nice to see you're actually capable of disagreeing with someone.

1: I haven't posted anything from a private conversation. I believe everything above was posted in a public forum.

2: Ive never badgered you in a conversation, you must be thinking about someone else.

3: Your opinion of me is irrelevant. If you want to argue against my points, do so.

4: I'm not an American and have no wish to be.

5: Dan knows my identity. Posting in a public forum with your real name is foolish in my opinion.

I thought I had explained this already but apparently not. Please read:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=439045.msg4930738#msg4930738

Apparently I haven't explained myself enough and certain people are still insisting that I left because of one reason (emunie corp).
I hope they can understand the following:

tl:dr Dan Hughes cannot be trusted and his project is faulty.



On Trust.


Let's take a look at a few facts about emunie.

1: It has one developer. We have to TRUST this developer that their isnt anything in the code that we don't know about. I do not mean malicious code (although that is possible) I mean code which favours him and makes him more money at the expense of others**. We also have to TRUST that this developer won't roll over at the first threat and create a back door for the authorities, because:

2: It is closed source. We have to TRUST the developer when he says it will one day be released. Many people have suggested having a third party check the source, or signing a contract promising to open source at some point, and they have been IGNORED by the developer every time.

3: The EDRC: a group of "founders" who will hold the money from the investment for the buffer system and all further development. For this we have to TRUST them (including Visin, Fuserleers partner...see above).

4: eMunie Ltd: This is the developer and whoever else is on the board of this corporation (who are they btw?) getting in bed with one of the most ruthless and dangerous criminal cartels in history (Her Majesty Queen Elisabeth II and her government) and agreeing to play by their rules. We have to TRUST the developer when he says he will simply close the company if it becomes necessary.
edit: It has been pointed out to me that my assumptions regarding business law are exactly that, assumptions. I'll leave this struck out unless I find evidence otherwise. I still have concerns, but they may be nothing to do with being a Ltd company, but rather Dan being public and a central point of attack.

5: We have to TRUST the developer that his system will work since the core of it is not yet written nor tested and yet he is gathering investments.



I think anyone would agree that emunie is based on a large amount of trust in the dev and his partner. It has been stated that these things are necessary in emunie's case, and to a certain degree I agree with this. What this illustrates to me is that emunie is faulty from the base up.

I have come to believe that Fuserleer does not deserve this trust and this is why I withdrew my investment and resigned as a mod.







1: I emailed Dan when I quit giving him in general terms the reason. I then joined the shoutbox and gave more detailed reasons in defence of accusations of fakery and cowardice from Visin and a beta tester.

2: Since I had already made it clear that the people who left had had very little contact (one of them asked me why I had left), this is nothing but an attempt by Dan to defame us in front of his beta-testers/founders.

3: Concerns about the direction emunie had taken had been brought up in the shoutbox before. Also, see 1.

4: see 3 and 1

5: Deletion of posts/threads was commonplace and questions from mods were discouraged by Dans right hand man and forum administrator Visin. I had previously said I would give up my moderator status rather than have my freedom of speech constrained by it. Certain subjects were "fogged over" and it was when I started to speak about them that my account was banned.

6: see 5.

--------




Another lie/half truth. After I posted this video, I was lying in bed and started to be concerned that it might just cause more arguments and bad feeling. So I got back up, turned on my PC and asked Visin if I should perhaps take it down. I forget his exact words but the message was that no I should not. Then Dan joined the shoutbox and after explaining this to him, he said something like "good. the more the better", referring to the anger/hurt it may cause Pinarello.




More lies. Fuserleer is quite happy antagonising people as can be seen in the original Nxt thread. It's a well known fact that there's a very easy way to make him angry. That is by mentioning 3 little letters: N, x and t. He also has a very low opinion of the users of this board, and claims he can run his project without them. I wonder where he thinks his investors came from?


What the above (and being a part of the emunie team) has shown me is that this person will say anything to promote/protect his project, no matter who it hurts or whether it's even true. At the same time he will attempt to create an image of himself as an innocent.


Fuserleer tells himself and others that he is changing the world. I have no idea what his original motives were, but if he thinks he will change the world with lies and censoring of truth, then he is delusional at best. There are enough lies and scheming in this world already thank you and I thought this community was working against that.

-----------------


** I'd like to ask Fuserleer if he's fixed the *bug* whereby his 2 hatchers receive at least 10x more earnings that everyone else?
The first time someone posted a chart of these earnings, there were 2 which had scores of approximately 300 each. The rest ranged from 30 to 0. Dan admitted the first was his. Then it was pointed out that the second one had "fuser" in the address (a vanity address). Dan claimed this wasn't his and made a show of asking for the private key from whoever it belonged to (no one came forward). This was supposedly a random event, coincidentally happening the first time anyone posted the charts.

What Dan failed to remember is that he had already, a few weeks previously, posted a screenshot of his vanity address with the word "fuser" in it.

This is where 50% of all gains will go, to these hatchers...




Trust?



I would also still like a reasonable reply to the points raised here:

http://forum.emunie.com/index.php?/topic/1343-what-happens-when-the-demand-dries-up/

[7:25:46 PM] Dan Hughes - eMunie: They can complain, the complainers are the ones that will get us into trouble selling children


Straight from the horses mouth, if you don't agree with Dan Hughes, you're a seller of children. Dan, you have outdone yourself on this one.



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=439045.msg4930738#msg4930738