That "someone else" also has to invest the resources, time, money and effort in the mining process. You can't get something for nothing. If you stop mining it is because you don't value the expected return on investment. Again, when you mine and hold you are buying the bitcoin because you value it more than the prevailing exchange rate. If you didn't think the current or projected exchange rate would be profitable then you would simply stop mining.
There's a fundamental difference between holding something, buying and selling that I feel is being lost here. If you are a miner you are not just "holding" the bitcoin you generate. You are actually purchasing them with your time, money, effort and resources. |
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Its not the same, because one affects the market price and one doesn't.
If I hypothetically mined 1,000,000 BTC today, the market cap would increase by ~$11,000,000 but that does not mean $11,000,000 was absorbed. If I tried to sell it on MtGox I would destroy the market.
See my clarification at post #9 above. You can't "hypothetically mine" bitcoin. It takes real resources that cost time, money and effort. When you invest these resources you are buying the product when you choose not to sell it. I was using that as an example because its harder to see the effect of not selling when its 1 btc vs a much larger number. If you had not "invested the resources" it would still have come into existence, simply for someone else. That is different than actively buying and selling on the open market. That "someone else" also has to invest the resources, time, money and effort in the mining process. You can't get something for nothing. If you stop mining it is because you don't value the expected return on investment. Again, when you mine and hold you are buying the bitcoin because you value it more than the prevailing exchange rate. If you didn't think the current or projected exchange rate would be profitable then you would simply stop mining. |
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When you don't sell them you are signaling to the market that you value them more than the $11 - hence you are buying them.
No, buying is buying ... not selling is not selling. If someone gives me an apple that they grew, I didn't buy it. But if that same apple would be sold at the market for 2 dollars, and you could only get apples at the market, that person can either give you the apple or two dollars. Same same. Its not the same, because one affects the market price and one doesn't. If I hypothetically mined 1,000,000 BTC today, the market cap would increase by ~$11,000,000 but that does not mean $11,000,000 was absorbed. If I tried to sell it on MtGox I would destroy the market. See my clarification at post #9 above. You can't "hypothetically mine" bitcoin. It takes real resources that cost time, money and effort. When you invest these resources you are buying the product when you choose not to sell it. |
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50 new bitcoins enter the total supply every ten minutes. You are implying every miner sell their BTC as soon as they mine them This is of course false, so far i have sold 0 BTC for example. When you don't sell them you are signaling to the market that you value them more than the $11 - hence you are buying them. Further clarification: when you refuse to sell your newly-mined coins you have essentially bought them with your expended resources and investment in the mining process. When you refuse to sell you are valuing the product of your efforts and resources more than the current exchange rate. |
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50 new bitcoins enter the total supply every ten minutes. You are implying every miner sell their BTC as soon as they mine them This is of course false, so far i have sold 0 BTC for example. When you don't sell them you are signaling to the market that you value them more than the $11 - hence you are buying them. Well theoretically yes, but without the hassle to move euros on an exchange  Yes, and the new buyers have to buy from somebody else because they cannot buy from you. |
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50 new bitcoins enter the total supply every ten minutes. You are implying every miner sell their BTC as soon as they mine them This is of course false, so far i have sold 0 BTC for example. When you don't sell them you are signaling to the market that you value them more than the $11 - hence you are buying them. |
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Im sure there is a very obvious reason, but here goes anyway: Why do TradeHill and MtGox (and the rest) dont use GoogleCheckout if it works for this guy?
Because Google Checkout allows chargebacks. This guy won't be in business long before the scammers hit it and chargebacks come back in a fury. At that point Google will shut down his account and he will be stuck with a big bill. Buy your bitcoins while you can but don't be the last guy in line...  |
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Here's just a fun, back-of-the-envelope, statistic: 50 new bitcoins enter the total supply every ten minutes. This is 300 per hour or 7,200 per day. The current USD price of bitcoin is around $11. That's $79,200 of new supply that is created and absorbed every day. This means that when the price of bitcion is above $11 then more than $79,200 of new money is flowing into bitcoin. When the price drops less than $11 then the amount of new money entering bitcoin is less than $79,200 per day. Pretty impressive. Bitcoin is gaining fans at the rate of $79,200 per day or $2,376,000 per month at the current rate. So don't despair when you see the price stay flat for an extended period of time.  |
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Greed is good. It is our desire to improve our lives. It is our desire to create and produce those things that others would voluntarily trade for. This process enriches both the lives of ourselves and of others. It is only when fraud, deceit, plunder and murder are used that greed becomes bad.
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It's pointless trying to convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced. if you believe in bitcoin buy it - if not, don't. Only time will tell.
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Most places will say "what's that?" to which I tell them "visit www.BitcoinTraining.com for more info - I think you might like it." The worst they can say is "no" and then you can decide if you want to continue doing business with them. Here's an example: I'm using a "form submission to email" service. I've asked them the bitcoin question above. If they say "no" then I will move my business to www.FormMail.com which does accept bitcoin for payment. Try offering bitcoin for every payment you make - it's a great way to introduce it to more people and businesses. Anybody else have any ideas that have worked for you? |
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FWIW, I mined 10,000,000 ShitCoins before I took it public.
It never caught on
LOL |
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On my list of concerns, my worry over the personal assets of Satoshi is just slightly more important than what I'm going to make for dinner this evening.
If it does concern you, like the other poster said, go mine XICoin, for Satoshi probably has none of them! In fact, why don't all the communists get together and create Communacoin, they can ensure nobody has more than X% above anyone else, that the supply of them increase indefinitely (making everyone richer forever), that purchases will only be for "socially beneficial purposes," and all the evil, unfair free-market jerks won't get to own any at all!
In all seriousness, it would make no sense at all for Satoshi to step forward and disclose anything about himself. It is obscenely smart for him to have disappeared and here's hoping he lives out his days in peace, wealth, and comfort, reflecting upon the incredible invention he has bestowed upon mankind.
+1 |
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Wow! Lot's of people crying about other people's money. If Satoshi does own that much BTC I think he is drastically underpaid. Bitcoin has the potential to bring more freedom and liberty to mankind than we have seen maybe in our lifetimes. Seriously, if you don't like bitcoin don't buy it. I don't care what Satoshi does with his money - it's none of my business. If he dumps it on the market I will buy as much as I can.
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Bitcoin is what it is. In my humble opinion I believe your questions are irrelevant in that it doesn't matter what the answers are.
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Thanks for all the positive response to the talk, guys! I recorded the talk myself from the soundboard and with a second HD camera. If we don't end up getting the CCC-streamed one to work right on the video sites I can sync and mux them myself and get a different recording up. Best, Jeffrey Paul < sneak@datavibe.net> http://sneak.datavibe.nethttp://twitter.com/sneakatdatavibe5539 AD00 DE4C 42F3 AFE1 1575 0524 43F4 DF2A 55C2 Awesome! Great talk and many thanks! Trader Steve |
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Can someone change this video to a different format or post it on YouTube? I'm afraid many folks will not be able to view this great video.
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Wait until you hear them complain about some aspect of the banking system, PayPal, transaction fees, government, etc., and then say "check out bitcoin, it solves a lot of those problems." Then send them to http://www.BitcoinTraining.com for more info. |
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