I dont see an exponential growth here. https://blockchain.info/en/charts/blocks-size?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=1&address=If people give up on bitcoin because the picked the wrong client... oh my. Whatcha gonna do about it? Its not like they are forced to use bitcoin core. Whats wrong with multibit or electrum? There are so many different wallets. So, if this has been discussed a thousand times, what where the "conclusions", and if the case, why no solution has been taken yet?
I am using Electrum at the moment and find it very comfortable.
The problem of course is security.
This exactly is the solution. Whats the problem with security ? I also can't understand how I can trust the developers of it, how can I know they don't know my passwords and security passphrase, but at the moment, seeing my funds are very low, it's ok.
How can you trust the devs of bitcoin core? You cant unless you can read the code. Same with electrum. https://github.com/spesmilo/electrumSame with every OpenSource tool you use. You either trust yourself to understand the code or you trust those that claim they understand the code. One thing is the Bitcoin Core, another one is somebody developing an online wallet. They put the code online, but how do I know that code is the same they use on their server? About the exponential growth, this is what I wrote: "This is probably (and hopefully) going to grow exponentially as the number of transactions is quite directly connected with the number of users." |
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You don't need to download the wallet on your PC, there are other options.
Also you can torrent the blockchain and save time.
Godlike you are trying to spread FUD in a weird way.
I am not trying anything. I also don't know what is FUD. Also, please read the post: I am using Electrum. A NEW user that just wants to understand how Bitcoin works, will much probably use the Bitcoin Wallet because he believes it's the most up to date or secure or official or anything. And what does he meet? Hours and hours of download before he can make any operation. |
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Yes I know this has been "discussed" a thousand times already, but still... the blockchain is growing by around 1GB per month. This is probably (and hopefully) going to grow exponentially as the number of transactions is quite directly connected with the number of users. I don't even want to think when Bitcoin will enter Wall Street... But many people immediately give up with Bitcoin though, when they see their Wallet client is taking ages to sync, but also hard disk space consumption is becoming annoyingly heavy. This puts Bitcoin on track for investors etc, but puts off track common people that would like to enter the currency. So, if this has been discussed a thousand times, what where the "conclusions", and if the case, why no solution has been taken yet? I am using Electrum at the moment and find it very comfortable. The problem of course is security. I also can't understand how I can trust the developers of it, how can I know they don't know my passwords and security passphrase, but at the moment, seeing my funds are very low, it's ok. |
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im doing a test right now..
i hav my own rig mining and i have bought some cloudhash aswell.. (matching hash amounts)
24 hour results
cloudhash amount i can withdraw is 20% lower then my own rigs rewards
if i can remember to come back to this topic ill keep it updated
(but of course you have to account for electric fee that the cloudhash charges, so im not too shocked)
Ye, and you have to subtract electricity in your own "income" from mining as well... and see if it really pays back... unless you are stealing electricity  |
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. you are presumptuous to say the least.
I might suggest that, if you are the kind of person that expects others to act in your best interest, then Bitcoin may not yet be ready for you. Or to SouthPark it... 'You're gonna have a baaad time" You didn't understand the sense of this thread. And I explained it really clearly. Think of it. Yeah, I thought of [sic] it. You jumped into a deal before thinking it through. Now you seem to be looking to others that you think should have saved you from yourself. You need to take responsibility for your own actions in Bitcoin. Ain't nobody else gonna do it for you. It's the Wild West out here - you need to act with appropriate forethought and trepidation, lest you get taken advantage of. caveat emptor before tempus fugit Thank you, I've already stated that I'm noob and in a subsequent post that I've been idiot. But you look idiot too, at this point. Because you know, I'm not the only one who put some money in PBMiner, there are other people who have put much more than me, and probably some more are thinking to put money in it. That's why I wrote this thread. Maybe you can catch it now. |
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Have you calculated reinvesting the dividends? Like on Cryptsy, you can buy fractions of a mining share.
So what if you reinvested the payouts on a weekly basis?
Theoretically you'd get exponential growth. Perhaps this would work? Could you do the math on something like this?
That would probably fix it. The problem is: you will never then have BTC, you will only have GHs until the end of times. Let's say you buy 1000 GHs. These 1000 GHs after the first month give you 0.799 BTC. You buy 0.799 of GHs (no matter how much it is). Now you have 1000 GHs that will never catch up the investment, AND 0.799 of GHs that will never catch up the investment I just trashed 150 Euro like an idiot, I can admit it. But I wonder all those people in there with thousands of GHs... how comes they didn't make the count before buying so much of it? I am not familiar with the service you are using, but on Cryptsy you can trade your mining shares back to BTC at any given time. So eventually, if you reinvest the dividends your 1 share will be 2, then 4, then 16, then 256. Or probably less because of the increase in mining difficulty. But eventually, you could cash in these shares for BTC. I calculated that if you reinvested the dividends on a weekly basis, after a few years you'd be generating like 1 BTC per day. Of course, this doesn't take into account the increase in difficulty, the decrease in share values, and of course the risk that Cryptsy gets Goxxed. So as intrigued as I have been about mining, my experiences have only lost me BTC. The good news is that after a year I'll get my principal back, so it shouldn't be a loss...but I ain't gonna get ri BTCh But watch: if you cash back your BTC, somebody else is losing. So, while you CAN do something by TRADING, you can't do anything by mining. It's just another asset you are trading, but in general that asset value is nothing. The only real winner is the cloud mining service. |
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When a miner solves a block,
they get the block reward + all fees from
the transactions in that block.
If they don't solve the block, they get nothing.
I see, thank you  |
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no block rewards, but they will get transaction fees (third time I'm saying this).
Pay attention much?
Sorry but they get transaction fees on Bitcoins they mined, if I'm not wrong again. Why would they want to keep mining when no more Bitcoins are extracted? Yes you are wrong again There is a difference between block rewards and transaction fees. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_feesNo, I don't think I am so stupid, sorry Transaction fee = miner gets it on any transaction people do. Block reward = when new Bitcoins are discovered. You didn't understand my question. I put it another way: transaction fees are given to miners based on the bitcoins they mined or by solely the fact that they are mining? |
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no block rewards, but they will get transaction fees (third time I'm saying this).
Pay attention much?
Sorry but they get transaction fees on Bitcoins they mined, if I'm not wrong again. Why would they want to keep mining when no more Bitcoins are extracted? |
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So the bubble will explode once the last Bitcoin will be mined?
What bubble? The last Bitcoin won't be mined until the year 2140 or so. And at that time, miners will be profiting from transaction fees. That's cool, but I can't understand how it is possible that you don't see it: no more mining -> no more secure network -> manipulable transactions. Also, you state the last one will be mined in 2140. I don't know if that includes the Moore Law, but even then, it probably doesn't include possible (or probable) biggest jumps in technology, like quantum computers, that are right behind the corner. They could be available in 10 years probably (if they are not already, I know there are some going around but people are not sure they are quantum). Who said no more mining? You misunderstood. Re-read what I said earlier: You ALWAYS need mining. As long as Bitcoin exists, a miner will mine a new block about every 10 minutes. I think you are confusing mining with block rewards. They are 2 different things. Successfully mining a block gives you a reward, but that reward decreases over the years until there is mining with no block rewards. The block rewards (new bitcoins) will stop being issued in 2140, but there will still be transactions, blocks, and mining... just no new coins. Got it? (Moore's law has nothing to do with any of this.) So just to keep Bitcoin up and running somebody will always have to mine, right? Without any reward. I guess somebody will take the task. |
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So the bubble will explode once the last Bitcoin will be mined?
What bubble? The last Bitcoin won't be mined until the year 2140 or so. And at that time, miners will be profiting from transaction fees. That's cool, but I can't understand how it is possible that you don't see it: no more mining -> no more secure network -> manipulable transactions. Also, you state the last one will be mined in 2140. I don't know if that includes the Moore Law, but even then, it probably doesn't include possible (or probable) biggest jumps in technology, like quantum computers, that are right behind the corner. They could be available in 10 years probably (if they are not already, I know there are some going around but people are not sure they are quantum). |
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Look, I have made plenty of mistakes in my life but I didn't think to blame the other person(s) for them. If my grandma would get a bad deal on a phone contract is certainly would be tragic and sad, however it would be her fault 100%, especially if the seller didn't make her any promises which he didn't keep.
I like to see how some people completely fail to understand that somebody can't know everything on the world, and, in this example, also fail to understand that some people become older and simply can't understand new stuff. Good luck, big ballz dude. |
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2) the whole reason for doing so is to secure the network.
LOLWUT? That's the purpose of mining. *People* mine for profit, but mining secures the network which is good for anyone that has BTC. Also, even at these prices, there is still the potential to profit long-term, and Bitcoin can only exist long-term so long as there are miners and the network is secure and...you get the idea. Honestly not. Not because I am an expert, but because it doesn't make sense to me. Soon, costs for mining will be prohibitive and people will stop mining. Is then Bitcoin going to collapse? I don't think so. And, for the little I know, I don't think it's true that mining is necessary to secure the network, but if you point me to an article I'll be glad to read about this. You are correct, you are not an expert. This post definitely qualifies you as a noob. The fact that mining secures the network Is one of the most basic things about Bitcoin and one of the most essential. https://bitcoin.org/en/faq#how-does-mining-help-secure-bitcoinI only see mining needed until there won't be enough transactions to prevent somebody manipulating the blockchain. As of today there are already tens of thousands of transactions every day, but technically I don't know if they are enough to prevent it. Number of transactions has nothing to do with if the blockchain can be manipulated. Transactions are bundled into blocks, and each block is linked to the previous with a cryptographic hash to form a chain of blocks (hence the term "blockchain") You ALWAYS need mining to find the solution to the next's block hash, to put it in simple terms. This is how Bitcoin works. So the bubble will explode once the last Bitcoin will be mined? |
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2) the whole reason for doing so is to secure the network.
LOLWUT? That's the purpose of mining. *People* mine for profit, but mining secures the network which is good for anyone that has BTC. Also, even at these prices, there is still the potential to profit long-term, and Bitcoin can only exist long-term so long as there are miners and the network is secure and...you get the idea. Honestly not. Not because I am an expert, but because it doesn't make sense to me. Soon, costs for mining will be prohibitive and people will stop mining. Is then Bitcoin going to collapse? I don't think so. And, for the little I know, I don't think it's true that mining is necessary to secure the network, but if you point me to an article I'll be glad to read about this. You are correct, you are not an expert. This post definitely qualifies you as a noob. The fact that mining secures the network Is one of the most basic things about Bitcoin and one of the most essential. https://bitcoin.org/en/faq#how-does-mining-help-secure-bitcoinI only see mining needed until there won't be enough transactions to prevent somebody manipulating the blockchain. As of today there are already tens of thousands of transactions every day, but technically I don't know if they are enough to prevent it. And btw, you don't offend me by calling me a noob, as I stated it already, you only look childish and frustrated  |
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Honestly not.
Not because I am an expert, but because it doesn't make sense to me.
Soon, costs for mining will be prohibitive and people will stop mining.
Is then Bitcoin going to collapse? I don't think so.
And, for the little I know, I don't think it's true that mining is necessary to secure the network, but if you point me to an article I'll be glad to read about this.
You have no idea what you're talking about. A portion of miners leave -> difficulty adjustment -> it is profitable for them again. Stop talking, please. I'm running a few smaller miners and donating whatever they mine. I'm doing it to support the network, like most people should do. Mh so tell me, what will happen when all the Bitcoin will be mined? |
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2) the whole reason for doing so is to secure the network.
LOLWUT? That's the purpose of mining. *People* mine for profit, but mining secures the network which is good for anyone that has BTC. Also, even at these prices, there is still the potential to profit long-term, and Bitcoin can only exist long-term so long as there are miners and the network is secure and...you get the idea. Honestly not. Not because I am an expert, but because it doesn't make sense to me. Soon, costs for mining will be prohibitive and people will stop mining. Is then Bitcoin going to collapse? I don't think so. And, for the little I know, I don't think it's true that mining is necessary to secure the network, but if you point me to an article I'll be glad to read about this. |
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Cloud mining isn't a scam.
Mining itself just isn't as profitable to the average Bitcoiner anymore.
Yes, and soon it won't be profitable for anybody, unless they bring out some equipment much more cheap and much more economic, and anyway, also then, it will only last few months before becoming useless. |
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2) the whole reason for doing so is to secure the network.
LOLWUT? |
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. you are presumptuous to say the least.
I might suggest that, if you are the kind of person that expects others to act in your best interest, then Bitcoin may not yet be ready for you. Or to SouthPark it... 'You're gonna have a baaad time" You didn't understand the sense of this thread. And I explained it really clearly. Think of it. |
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How are renters responsible for your incompetence and lack of knowledge in basic math/logic again?
Put it as you want, they show that you can EARN, while in effect you earn nothing. By earning, of course, everybody means earning more than what you invest. EVERYBODY means that. And yes, they take advantage of people ignorance. That does not make them worth a single penny more, if you ask me. And if you appreciate these people I despise you. Just to be more clear: if somebody goes to your grandma and sells her some useless phone contract with higher prices teasing her in believing that she will spend less, do you think your grandma is an idiot or that scammers must be punished? If my grandma is presented with the specs and decides to purchase the useless phone contract without any convincing then yes, it's Darwinism at its best. I hope you will never make any mistake in your life... you are presumptuous to say the least. |
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