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561  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: October 14, 2015, 05:28:14 PM
its around 240 when gemini start, and then rises every to 250 today. if you have other theory... pls inform

It's been showing an upward trend for longer than that. It looks to me that it's been rising (more or less) since 22 September. My theory? 22 September is Chesney Hawke's birthday. How could that not be bullish?!
562  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gemini's launch is a failure, so is bitcoin on: October 14, 2015, 04:44:51 PM
... with no risk that my personal details (except possibly my email address) end up being hacked, or, possibly worse, on a government's database. ...

Since you're 'not in the US' (not a US citizen?) this is sort of moot, but out of curiosity, what 'personal details' [unrelated to money laundering/tax evasion] do you worry about appearing in 'a government's database'? I mean, the ones that aren't already there?

>I reject without hesitation the argument that only criminals have something to hide.
So do I, so do I... That's [partly] why I've never suggested such a thing. OTOH, I'm somewhat at a loss as to what AML/KYC requirements you find to be particularly intrusive, and why the risk of said [damaging personal information] coming to light outweighs the reward of knowing that 99% of the trades aren't fake, that Anon won't front-run/otherwise bitch up your trades, or vanish into the interwebs with your coin without so much as okthxbi.
Could you elaborate?

I'm worried about any personal details being on any database. Not because I'm unreasonably paranoid (though that's certainly arguable) but because the more information outside my control, the harder it is for me to manage it. I live in a jurisdiction where there are pretty robust privacy laws, so I'm not too worried about sharing financial information with my government (or other European governments) - I have a relatively high degree of confidence that my information will be used for the advertised purpose, and not sold or leaked to other parties - but it still makes sense to limit the information I share. I'm not going to give out personal data willy nilly - there would have to be a compelling reason for me to do so.

Your second paragraph, 99% of trades are fake? I assume this is conversational, like your "proof" earlier? Yeah, of course your general point is correct - Gemini is safer than a non-regulated exchange. That's why I hope institutional investors in BTC will increase, that's why I welcome Gemini. But in order for me to trade there I need to locate ID documents (what documents do they need? Will mine be acceptable?), send them (or copies - do they need to be notarised?), wait for them to be received, approved, etc. All for trading a few BTC. When I'm already trading quite happily elsewhere.

Seriously, I'd love to be part of Gemini's target audience. If I had the money, I would trade there. But I'm not going to go through the AML/KYC hassle for the sake of a few BTC. And I strongly suspect that most people will display similar inertia. They'll all have slightly different reasons, but the outcome will be the same - most people will continue trading on the exchange(s) they know, until/unless there's a compelling reason not to. And yet-another-new-exchange, even one targeted at institutional investors, is not a compelling reason.
563  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gemini's launch is a failure, so is bitcoin on: October 14, 2015, 03:01:42 PM
Perhaps 'proof' is too strong a word.  I meant proof in its purely conversational sense, more like 'show.'
Rigorous proof is hard, but a nod, you know, is as good as a wink to a blind horse.

As far as your lack of interest, I'm guessing you're not a part of Gemini's target demographic, 'institutional investors' (who, as I was led to believe, are chompin' at the bit to buy bitcoins, lacking only a legitimate, 'institutional investor'-friendly portal like Gemini).

As to there 'hopefully [being] money out there that wants the safety and security of a heavily regulated exchange"? Why wouldn't one want to trade on a safe, regulated exchange? Do investors typically crave risk without potential reward? Or are you obliquely referencing the criminal element, those who've 'managed to avoid the AML/KYC hoops'?

I'm almost certainly not a part of Gemini's target demographic, and I imagine very few Bitcointalk posters are either - though I seem to recall one poster who claimed to work at a fairly high level for one branch of JP Morgan. Gemini have gone to a great deal of trouble to ensure that they've jumped through the regulatory hoops necessary for US institutional investors to feel comfortable trading there. I'm not in the US, I'm not an institutional investor, and the BTC I'd be prepared to trade on one exchange is fairly meagre, so there's little advantage to me trading at Gemini.

Obviously rational traders want to reduce exchange risk as far as possible. But for many of us part of that risk is derived from, not mitigated by, regulation. I can transfer a few BTC to an exchange, trade a bit, and then transfer my BTC back to my control quickly and easily, with no risk that my personal details (except possibly my email address) end up being hacked, or, possibly worse, on a government's database. That's convenient, and also reassuring. I don't have the wealth to justify trading on Gemini - if I did, I could afford to consult legal counsel and take legal action as appropriate if they "shared" my personal information with hackers (and remember that that information would be far more extensive due to AML/KYC requirements). I'm not obliquely referencing the criminal element - I reject without hesitation the argument that only criminals have something to hide. To limit my risk I'd like to avoid sharing my financial information as much as possible. Obviously I have to share some information in some cases - when I take out a mortgage, etc. But a mortgage is a big thing, much bigger than the limited amount I'd risk on any one exchange. Fortunately there are still exchanges available to me that offer a far less onerous option.
564  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gemini's launch is a failure, so is bitcoin on: October 14, 2015, 09:44:10 AM
how can you judge already that Gemini is a fail when it's recently launched?
give it more time and let more people see how Gemini will perform in the coming months

You're right, in a way.  Nothing wrong with Gemini--reasonable trading fees, US based (not in Kurdistan/Somalia/Mom's basement), known people backing it (as in "not Anon & Nony"), banking support, insured, regulated, etc., etc. What else can anyone want?
And yet... Dead.
People not flocking to Gemini proves what many have been telling you for years: exchanges fake volume.  But not just tweak it a bit, not just Chinese exchanges, not just 'a few' exchanges, and not just sometimes--all exchanges, most of the volume, all the time.
Gemini can't [fake volume] because regulated & unwilling to play fast & loose, so seems dead Undecided



How does people not flocking to Gemini prove that exchanges fake volume?

I'm pretty certain some exchanges do fake volume, but I'm at a loss to see how action at Gemini (or the lack thereof) proves anything. I think Gemini is a great development for Bitcoin but I'm not going to trade there anytime soon - and my reasons have absolutely nothing to do with volume, fake or otherwise, at Gemini or elsewhere. There's inertia associated with moving exchange - why should people move from an exchange they're comfortable with (where they've either managed to avoid the AML/KYC hoops or they've already jumped through them once and would prefer not to do it again at a new exchange) unless there's a compelling reason? There's hopefully money out there that wants the safety and security of a heavily regulated exchange - but I doubt there's significant overlap between that and money already on unregulated/less-regulated exchanges.
565  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitstamp the new OKCOIN 2.0 volume manipulators. Fake Wall observer. on: October 12, 2015, 01:14:48 PM
Everyone with half a brain knows the whole btc economy is fake. The real volume is maybe a few hundred btc per day being traded globally. If that's not failing I don't know what is.

"The real volume is maybe.... If that's not failing..."

OK, so you don't know what the real volume is, but you do know that if it is as low as you think it is, it's failing? It seems to me that the first thing you should be doing is dispensing with that "maybe" by finding out what the real volume really is. Other wise your post is nonsensical.
566  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: [CATALOG] Good websites to Invest My Bitcoins? on: October 12, 2015, 01:05:24 PM
Here you can invest without risk:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171677.0

Ain't no such thing as a risk-free investment.

The closest thing to a risk-free investment is a government bond where the risk is considered so small as to be negligible.

As soon as transfer control of our assets to someone else there's a risk that they'll default in some way. That's as true of governments and multinational corporations as it is of some random dude on the internet (though the risk itself, while always present, would probably be considered to be far higher in the latter case).

Yea but we want to earn money here. I dont know about his investment program.

But I know this for a fact: without risk there is no reward, this is true for everything in life.

Absolutely - I'm definitely not saying "don't invest", I'm just calling out the idea that an investment can be risk-free (and, related to that, that we should probably regard claims to the contrary with the utmost caution).
567  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: [CATALOG] Good websites to Invest My Bitcoins? on: October 12, 2015, 11:50:53 AM
Here you can invest without risk:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171677.0

Ain't no such thing as a risk-free investment.

The closest thing to a risk-free investment is a government bond where the risk is considered so small as to be negligible.

As soon as transfer control of our assets to someone else there's a risk that they'll default in some way. That's as true of governments and multinational corporations as it is of some random dude on the internet (though the risk itself, while always present, would probably be considered to be far higher in the latter case).
568  Economy / Speculation / Re: BTC Halving Price Effect Timing on: October 12, 2015, 10:42:10 AM
The first and the last time btc halved in Nov'2013, price movement began in May'2013, a full 6 months prior to the halving. That is an accepted fact around the forum.

For LTC's last halving in Sep'2015, price movement began in July'2015, about 2 months prior to the halving.

For the next btc halving in July'2016, I don't expect a huge price movement until a month before it happens. Primarily because everyone's expecting a moon rocket ride, which it won't be, and because IT"S THE BITCOIN tm.

Did bitcoin price peak around Nov 2013 and drop since then?

The block reward reduction was a year earlier, in November 2012.

There wasn't a November 2012 peak. There was a price increase (back to USD10+) in the 6 months prior to the halfing, as talks_cheep mentioned, but it had tailed off - price was flat - by November. There was another increase (USD100+) from January 2013, though the degree that this was due to the reduced supply kicking in, increased demand prompted by willybot, or other factors - is probably still open to debate (personally I think willybot is overrated, but I suspect I'm in a minority).

569  Economy / Speculation / Re: We will break $200 again on: October 12, 2015, 10:29:22 AM
When will the last coins be sold?

They said before 2016 Christmas but I don't know if this info is still accurate.

It is still accurate: 

Quote
The auction will take place during a six-hour period Nov. 5 from 8 a.m. to 2 p.m. EST. Bids will be accepted by email from pre-registered bidders only. The bitcoins are being offered in 22 blocks: 21 blocks of 2,000 bitcoins and 1 block of just over 2,341 bitcoins. The winning bidder(s) will be notified Nov. 6.
570  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gentlemen, i think it's safe to say we're the new halving elite on: October 11, 2015, 10:33:59 AM
In the future when pretty much all the coins have been mined. People put an estimate for how much the market cap of bitcoin will be, and then divide by 21 million to get the value per coin, and they will buy if it's significantly higher than what it is now. So the price is essentially completely dictated by the total possible value of all bitcoins, divided by 21 million.

The error in your reasoning is that all those 21m bitcoins will be available to you if you are willing to pay the market price.
I’m Hoarding Bitcoins, and No You Can’t Have Any

Secondly if you look at the halving from a dollar value demand perspective and assume that currently all mined bitcoins are sold immediately:
3600BTC x 250$ = currently 900,000$ demand per day.

Now lets assume that the dollar value demand is still the same after the halving and that all mined bitcoins are still sold immediately (1800BTC instead of 3600BTC).
Something has to move. The dollar value of a bitcoin has to double to 500$ or the current holders need to be willing to supply those extra 1800BTC per day. Each day, every day.

It will likely be a combination of the two.
or satoshi can volunteer to sell 1800 btc per day to keep the price level.

What do you think is the likelihood - in percentage terms - of that happening, and why? (Personally, I'd assess the chance to be vanishingly small - so small as to be not worth considering - but I'm interested in the reasoning behind higher values).
571  Economy / Services / Re: [OPEN] [HIGHEST PAY] COINUT.COM ★ Signature Campaign ★ Pay per post ★ Weekly ★ on: October 09, 2015, 11:22:52 AM
i interest to join

Name: paraka
Post: 820
Activity: 266
Position: Sr. Member
Coinut Username: paraka
Hey dude, I think slot for senior member full right now

slot Senior are Full at the moment

Check the google docs file to see that

i see in OP

Spots available:
Full member : 17
Sr. member : 11 
Hero member and up :2

I doubt they edit the OP that frequently. Like kostya.ash said, check the Google doc.
572  Economy / Speculation / Re: quiet before the storm. $18000 coming! on: October 09, 2015, 09:20:47 AM
I see that almost everyone is "waiting" this price and no ask for facts which can give hopes that this price (or at leas another near it) will arrive. In other words, I'm happy if this price will become true, but where is based the OP in giving this price? Only in the words "There simply is too much demand"? I don't remember in three years "life" with bitcoin, someone which have found (even only one time) which exact price will have bitcoin in the future (like it has made in this thread). For more, using only 6 words as a fact.

I can make the same thing in another thread telling not 1800 us dollar as a price but 10 000 us dollar. I will use much more words to protect and argument my "prediction" (let's tell about 50). Would you believe me?

I'm fairly certain the OP was being satirical. Subsequent posters... maybe not so much!
573  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Man Behind Week-Long Bitcoin Attacks Reveals Himself on: October 09, 2015, 08:25:32 AM
More than anything i like people that says the truth even in the faces of strong oppositions.
If i may ask, why did you do it? and what do you intend to achieve?
I want to tell you that bitcoin is too weak for you lifetime savings
Good to understand your reason but now that you know about its weakness how do we make it strong because there is possibility that a lot of people might die of one ailment or the other if they loss their bitcoins especially those that have put their life investment in it.

What drew me to Bitcoin initially is that it gives me control over my finances. With that control comes responsibility. If anyone has put all their life savings in Bitcoin, they need to take responsibility for that.

However, I remain to be convinced that people are that naïve, and in sufficient numbers, to warrant the excuse amaclin has offered.
574  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Man Behind Week-Long Bitcoin Attacks Reveals Himself on: October 09, 2015, 07:57:04 AM
More than anything i like people that says the truth even in the faces of strong oppositions.
If i may ask, why did you do it? and what do you intend to achieve?
I want to tell you that bitcoin is too weak for you lifetime savings

Uh, OK. Are many Bitcoin users keeping their lifetime savings in BTC? What proportion of users are we talking about? And how did you find this out?

How has this proportion changed as your efforts to educate users progress?
575  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: October 08, 2015, 11:57:05 AM
90 minutes to go now, right?

This is the most boring reaction to a sorta major event yet, I bet we won't even have a dump...

ok so what should i do now ?

a. buy and wait 4 digit

b. sell and wait 2 digit

c. do nothing



This is a trick question, right?! HODL!

More seriously, I've been either buying BTC or selling puts (various strikes, but break even around 220+) whenever the price drops close to USD 200. Right now I'm hodling. I've no intention of selling anytime soon, if ever.
576  Economy / Exchanges / Re: Gemini opens 08 Oct for trading!! on: October 08, 2015, 11:53:57 AM
Much ado about this today is October 8, has the exchange started? Also i can not see the website anywhere.

Opens in a few hours, I think (I'm about 4-5 hours ahead of New York - I've not checked but it must be 7am, 8am in NY).

Here's their website, but their blog is probably more interesting for the next few hours!
Thank you for sharing this as i almost got lost looking for this in this forum. But why did you say is probably more interesting for the next few hours!

Aha! Just because there won't be any trading going on until the exchange officially opens! Though I guess if you could rustle up an invite it might be quite interesting to see what the main site looks like (I've not bothered with an invite - I'm not in the US, and I strongly suspect my net wealth is far too low for me to be interesting to Gemini, or for their exchange to be of much use to me).
577  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Scrypt.CC | Scrypt Cloud Mining on: October 08, 2015, 11:11:01 AM

Thanks! What I'm seeing is similar to what I'd expect to see from, say, Slush's mining pool - is there some way to link the TXs to an individual piece of mining hardware, or to a specific individual/organisation that controls the miner? (Apologies if it's obvious and I'm missing it, it's been a long time since I mined).

Edit: it occurs to me that an alternative is to tally up the total AntPool hashpower and compare it with what Hashnest customers believe they should be getting. Is that possible?

LMGTFY it's better if you go on the offical hashnest tread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=766448.0 and read, and

post there requests about this service, as this is not on topic here....

yes this thread is to discuss about scam ..

Cesmak, British - apologies.
578  Economy / Exchanges / Re: Gemini opens 08 Oct for trading!! on: October 08, 2015, 11:09:41 AM
Much ado about this today is October 8, has the exchange started? Also i can not see the website anywhere.

Opens in a few hours, I think (I'm about 4-5 hours ahead of New York - I've not checked but it must be 7am, 8am in NY).

Here's their website, but their blog is probably more interesting for the next few hours!
579  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: October 08, 2015, 09:01:52 AM
What would be the point to announce their launch just a few days in advance other than a pump? They could have announced it when it went live.

Drum up some publicity before it opens so people will sign up when it opens.

And provide all the invasive KYC details to the almighty NYC regulators.

We can choose to avoid heavily regulated exchanges. That doesn't mean other people want to, and it doesn't mean that an exchange positioning itself in terms of regulatory compliance is a bad thing. It's just another choice. Choice is good, even if it's not beneficial to a limited group of people (us) in the short term.
580  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Scrypt.CC | Scrypt Cloud Mining on: October 08, 2015, 08:50:53 AM

Thanks! What I'm seeing is similar to what I'd expect to see from, say, Slush's mining pool - is there some way to link the TXs to an individual piece of mining hardware, or to a specific individual/organisation that controls the miner? (Apologies if it's obvious and I'm missing it, it's been a long time since I mined).

Edit: it occurs to me that an alternative is to tally up the total AntPool hashpower and compare it with what Hashnest customers believe they should be getting. Is that possible?
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