Don't patronize Betcoin until they pay jasonort for the win. If they don't pay go play some other place.
Betcoins pathetic stance on the issue has already been made clear. They tried to shame Jason into accepting their decision right off the bat. Then they censored nearly all posts criticizing BetsoftGaming and locked his initial thread: https://www.betcoin.ag/should-pay-line-have-won-jackpot-glam-lifeAfter deleting my comments that I naturally re-posted right away I had this conversation with Andrew about his imaginary intern: (10:15:47) twitchyseal: hey andrew, you know anything about my vanishing post?
(10:17:21) Betcoin Andrew: Our casino providers do an excellent job and are used by the top online casinos. We cannot have those type of comments about them in the forum as they are constantly reviewing our website.
(10:17:26) *** Betcoin Andrew left the chat ***
(10:17:36) *** twitchyseal has rated the chat Bad ***
(10:17:44) twitchyseal: are you deleting them?
(10:18:16) *** Betcoin Andrew joined the chat ***
(10:18:23) Betcoin Andrew: An intern is. Why post the same thing 10 times?
(10:18:40) twitchyseal: because it kept vanishing and i think its useful info
(10:18:45) twitchyseal: was any of it inaccurate?
(10:18:52) Betcoin Andrew: twitchy your time is valuable man I have been telling you this for over a year.
(10:18:58) twitchyseal: i know
(10:19:03) twitchyseal: im glad you appreciate that
(10:19:19) Betcoin Andrew: You should man.
(10:19:21) twitchyseal: im glad you dont take things personal, im just being honest
(10:19:34) twitchyseal: so is there something false about my statement?
(10:19:40) Betcoin Andrew: It may not be much to you, but posting that 10 times and having it deleted 10 times is a waste of time.
(10:19:47) Betcoin Andrew: Certainly you understand that right?
(10:19:57) twitchyseal: agree, so you won't delete it anymore?
(10:20:09) Betcoin Andrew: Wow
(10:20:20) Betcoin Andrew: Alright I have some work to do. My time is very valuable.
(10:20:25) *** Betcoin Andrew left the chat **
Eventually they banned me for the 273rd time.  |
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Vegascasino.io did not provide licence info on their site, be careful.
Live Chat representative said they do not have info about licence at the moment.
They also run unofficial Novomatic games on their site.
What do you mean by "they didn't provide license info"? It looks like they do not have valid licence, if they have licence number is not available on the site. Not having a license and being licensed by curacao are basically the same thing and imo shouldn't be considered an indication of a casinos integrity. |
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-snip-
I don't get why people choose to play on these junky games that have such high house edges.
-snip-
It's the aggressive affiliate model they all use. "Tell everyone how awesome we are and you get 20-40% of their losses for life" Google Bitcoin Casino for thousands of shitty affiliate sites that rank casinos on their page by nothing other than which sites are giving them the biggest cut. (there are a few that do put admirable effort into protecting the player, but they are rare) House edge is not even available for the majority of games. |
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Bitcoin Casinos with Betsoft Progressive Jackpot Slots
Incomplete
4grinz.com
7bitcasino.com
betchain.com
betchan.com
betcoin.ag
bitcasino.io
bitcoin penguin
bitstarz
btc casino
cloudbet
fortune jack
limoplay
mbit casino
oshi
sportsbet.io
vegas casino
Any suggestions or volunteers to help organize this stuff is appreciated.
Just wanted to point out that Sportsbet.io, Vegascasino.io and Bitcasino.io are all operated by the same company at CoinGaming.io. An opinion from either of those sites should suffice, since they are all owned by the same company. I doubt they would split on something like that. Anyway, I will send mBitCasino an email later and see what they think. I'll post their response once I get it. My guess for cloudbet is that they won't care, since withdraws take forever and they don't seem to care about that either. Cool, good work. Got a reply from sportsbet Hey TwitchySeal,
We will contact our platform provider CoinGaming and get a reply asap about this issue. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
I thought mBitCasino was also the same CoinGaming, but now they look different I guess. |
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Here's a more recent issue dooglus brought up. After an extensive review and research, Betcoin Poker was able to pinpoint the programming error that caused the rake overcharges from 10/30/15-12/9/15 and is providing refunds to players or a Daily Coin Ticket based on the following criteria. If a player played at Betcoin Poker using the 100% rakeback promo, the player will technically owe funds to Betcoin. Instead of taking these funds from the player account, the player can create a ticket requesting a Daily Coin Ticket in lieu of the account review. Each player requesting a refund of the overcharged rake must create a ticket here: www.betcoin.ag/support. The review of the player account will take up to 10 business days to complete. If the player owes Betcoin funds, the player's account will be deducted those funds, however if the player chooses to accept a ticket in lieu of a review, the player will be awarded the ticket. I don't think I fully understand. Are you saying that you may have accidentally taken too much money from me, but in order to find out whether you did I have to forego a free tournament entry? How am I meant to know whether the value of the proposed bribe is bigger or smaller than the amount you accidentally took from me before you tell me how much you took from me? Couldn't you just tell me how much you took? It shouldn't be too hard to make a list of how much each player is short: Loop over all the hands in the affected period { Calculate the amount of rake taken Subtract the amount of rake that should have been taken Assign the difference to the relevant player totals } If that's too much, could you maybe send me my hand history over the relevant period so I can do the math for myself please? Thanks. Please respond. Please make the site playable for 10.5.8 mac users, using puffin is just not a option.
Wanted to update you here as we are working on a very exciting version for mobile and web play which will benefit all of our mac users greatly.
Unfortunately, Betcoin ignores them in the official "Betcoin Threads", and refuses to address the scam accusation threads.
If betcoin won't address the issues anywhere else, I think it's reasonable to bring them here to the people who choose to promote Betcoin. |
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Larger players in bitcoin gambling need to step up and deliver better experiences rather than run garbage real money software and the players need to demand more. For example, players should demand that betcoin.ag proves ownership of 5000 BTC before trying their jackpot games.
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Yes, they will continue to offer Betsoft games they are sister casino of Bitcasino.
Yeah, I guess they are both coingaming.io sites and will react the same, but how is that related to how they react to the Betsoft issue? |
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So if I get this right, betsoft is the service which provides the gaming platform to those sites right ?
Betsoft provides the software. Casinos usually offer many different software providers (Endorphina, Amatic, GameArt for example) It's really just one big affiliate tree, the software provider is at the top. SoftwareProviders--->Casino (Sites)--->Affiliate Sites----Player How was the user able to win the jackpot if it was unwinnable in the first case ?
I posted some cliffs here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1236667.msg15376629#msg15376629Our response is continuing to build our provably fair casino which features games coded and designed from scratch. Larger players in bitcoin gambling need to step up and deliver better experiences rather than run garbage real money software and the players need to demand more. For example, players should demand that betcoin.ag proves ownership of 5000 BTC before trying their jackpot games. It's also pathetic that all these sites advertise "provably fair" when they have one provably fair game and then run that sort of software.
Ultimately it is up to the players to be responsible given how many safe options there are to choose from.
Betsoft Gaming is the polar opposite of a site like PrimeDice. It literally couldn't not be any less transparent is probably nothing. But it's also one of, if not the biggest software provider for Bitcoin Casinos. wtf? I recently made a post criticizing Betsoft on Betcoin.ag forums. Here's my comment: Betsoft and Endorphina games would never get approved by any major regulator because they don't meet some of the most basic regulations. (posting rtp, independant reels, flashing higher paying symbols at a higher rate than they actually hit)
They are as transparent as a Brick Wall.
The more legit providers you find on the floor in ac or vegas like netent won't provide for a site that is completely unregulated site or they would lose their license in multiple jurisdictions (like NJ and NV) which translates to a shitload of money. Here's the chat transcript with Betcoin support after it vanished/I reposted it a bunch of times: (10:15:47) twitchyseal: hey andrew, you know anything about my vanishing post?
(10:17:21) Betcoin Andrew: Our casino providers do an excellent job and are used by the top online casinos. We cannot have those type of comments about them in the forum as they are constantly reviewing our website.
(10:17:26) *** Betcoin Andrew left the chat ***
(10:17:36) *** twitchyseal has rated the chat Bad ***
(10:17:44) twitchyseal: are you deleting them?
(10:18:16) *** Betcoin Andrew joined the chat ***
(10:18:23) Betcoin Andrew: An intern is. Why post the same thing 10 times?
(10:18:40) twitchyseal: because it kept vanishing and i think its useful info
(10:18:45) twitchyseal: was any of it inaccurate?
(10:18:52) Betcoin Andrew: twitchy your time is valuable man I have been telling you this for over a year.
(10:18:58) twitchyseal: i know
(10:19:03) twitchyseal: im glad you appreciate that
(10:19:19) Betcoin Andrew: You should man.
(10:19:21) twitchyseal: im glad you dont take things personal, im just being honest
(10:19:34) twitchyseal: so is there something false about my statement?
(10:19:40) Betcoin Andrew: It may not be much to you, but posting that 10 times and having it deleted 10 times is a waste of time.
(10:19:47) Betcoin Andrew: Certainly you understand that right?
(10:19:57) twitchyseal: agree, so you won't delete it anymore?
(10:20:09) Betcoin Andrew: Wow
(10:20:20) Betcoin Andrew: Alright I have some work to do. My time is very valuable.
(10:20:25) *** Betcoin Andrew left the chat **
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Recently a player at Betcoin appeared to hit a jackpot worth over 500 BTC and did not get paid. The Scam Accusation Thread can be found HERESince starting the thread, information about Betsoft Gaming has been brought to the public's attention that should be taken very seriously. It seems very possible that many of the biggest progressive Jackpots (worth thousands of Bitcoin) are unwinnable despite 1-2% of each bet increasing its respective fund. When a Betcoin.ag user met all qualifications for the jackpot, he was given multiple excuses for not being paid that contradicted the paytable. Without notice or explanation, Betsoft changed the rules days later. The owner of casinolistings.com has been tracking Betsoft progressives on Bodog.com, found that smaller jackpots (denomination independent) for a few hundred USD were hitting regularly while other denominations were never hit but continue to grow. Many smaller casinos (like Betcoin.ag) have progressive Jackpots advertised worth over 5,000 BTC in total, and have ignored requests to prove these funds are in tact. Betsoft surrendered it's Class 1 license from the reputable Alderny jurisdiction in summer 2014 after being investigated. Several major affiliate sites have issued warnings to their players. I think we should be questioning any site that chooses to continue to offer these games. In this un/barely-regulated environment, if players don't demand to be treated fairly, they shouldn't expect to be treated fairly. Unregulated doesn't mean we have to accept unethical. https://www.casinolistings.com/news/2016/06/warning-avoid-all-betsoft-slots-and-casino-games <---This is the site that has collected jackpot data. http://www.latestcasinobonuses.com/article/warning-betsoft-progressives-problemhttp://www.gpwa.org/forum/casinolistings-issues-betsoft-gaming-warning-227986.html http://vegasclick.com/online/betsoft-jackpot-issue http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71002
I encourage all players to contact their favorite Bitcoin Casinos directly and ask them how these issues will affect their relationship with Betsoft gaming and report back. I will copy any responses and add them to this OP.
I encourage all sites to respond to this thread directly.
Regarding situation with Betsoft games - till further investigation we disabled all games with jackpots from our casino section.
We are already in negotiation with all parties involved and looking forward for more details.
Betsoft Progressive Slots: 1. Good Girl Bad Girl 2. At the Copa 3. Greedy Goblins 4. Mr. Vegas 5. Slot Angels 6. The Glam Life 7. Tycoons 8. The Treasure Room
Bitcoin Casinos with Betsoft Progressive Jackpot Slots4grinz.com 7bitcasino.com betchain.com betchan.com betcoin.ag bitcasino.io - Betsoft Jackpot Games Disabled, Investigation Underwaybitcoin penguin bitstarz btc casino cloudbet fortune jack limoplay mbit casino oshi sportsbet.io - Betsoft Jackpot Games Disabled, Investigation Underwayvegascasino.io - Betsoft Jackpot Games Disabled, Investigation Underway |
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Sorry Cmols, heres a recap with less words for you (did you figure out your VIP level yet? or do you still need help):
Last July-Oct, I was playing most of my WPN tourneys on Betcoin.
I was missing around 2-4k usd in rakeback/vip rewards.
Betcoin said they were right and then (attempted to) ignore me. I raised hell because I knew I was right, they banned me because I wouldn't go away etc.
Mid-March they unbanned me for some reason (honestly no idea why). First thing I did was bump my ticket. They asked how much I was missing, I said 2.5-5btc depending on some factors. They paid me 3 btc and upgraded my VIP level.
By the way, I have no doubt I could of demanded some amount of Bitcoin back in October and just moved on. Instead I attempted to try to get them to find a solution and also repay every affected player. Obviously I wasn't successful.
Now, Xiao seems to be implying that these issues are fixed. I'd like to know why he is now assuming that these issues are in the past...is it because nobody is complaining? Or because Betcoin started giving a shit about an issue they previously did not and decided to fix the problem rather than just pay the players who realized what was going on and fuck the rest?
The reason so few have ever complained is because so few are even aware. There is no easy way for a player to track their WPN tournament play. Betcoin offers nothing, sharkscope offers limited data, and PT4/HEM2 is not reliable when it comes to re-entries, rebuys, add-ons etc. It's a pain in the ass to figure out how much is missing, and an even bigger pain in the ass dealing with William and Andrew who, if you're lucky, will eventually pick a number out of the air and pay up.
It's a whole lot easier to just play and see how much you get back, and not think twice about it, which is what pretty much everyone that still plays at betcoin chooses to do. This is not acceptable.
-If you want to keep track on your own, here are the types I believe are most likely to not reward appropriately:
High buyin special tourneys like the $1m guar, Cage and Sunday Specials.
Any re-entries
Satellites that end while still in late reg
PS If you satellite into a tournament and get auto-regged, you don't get rewarded. However, if you register for the target event directly with cash and then win the seat, you should be rewarded and receive the value of the seat in cash.
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I have never understood take back % how does it work ? Like if I lose 100btc what do I get back ? And why do you do take back ? To attract people or ?
In poker you aren't playing against the house, you're playing against other players. Instead of a "house edge" the house takes a commision based on how big the pot is (in cash games) or on how much the buyin is (for tournaments). As part of the loyalty program/affiliate program, Betcoin returns a % of the commision they take to the player/affiliate. Unfortunately, Betcoin doesn't return the % they advertise. Instead of adjusting what they advertise, or returning what they advertise, they choose to lie about it and cover it up. Because of the nature of the game, most players do not realize they are being shorted. Twitchy, look at the way you phrase things. Just because Betcoin made an error in rake almost 1 year ago and has corrected it long ago, doesn't mean they have continued to do so. You said "Unfortunately, Betcoin doesn't return the % they advertise." A non libelous way of putting it should have been "Unfortunately, Betcoin didn't return the % they advertised." Because obviously the rake thing hasn't been a problem for a long time now. I'm not referring to the time Betcoin increased the rake accidentally, then lied about it/ignored it for months. They fixed that (you're welcome, by the way) Read closely. I'm helping the players, not hurting them. |
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All Fun-casino games are based on "Provably Fair" technology, which guarantees fairness of winning/loss.
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ This is false. Do you understand? ok, remark here "All casino SoftSwiss games are Provably Fair" So let's say it's not 100% decentralized, that would be correct.
Great, we're making progress! I started editing your OP for you, there's still some work to do though: Welcome to Fun-casino, first decentralized Bitcoin casino.Decentralized casinos don't exist.
Casino software works on Blockchain technology, which guarantees its players placing bets, winning, and withdrawing their winnings instantly, staying anonymous within the system. All Fun-casino games are based on "Provably Fair" technology, which guarantees fairness of winning/loss.
Casino offers high-quality games from world-famous game providers: Betsoft gaming, Endorphina, Ezugi, Pocket Dice, SoftSwiss. [/url]The quality and fairness of games are proven by iTech Labs certificate.
Once all Fair games rules observed, Fun-casino guarantees instant withdrawal to its players. If not, player always has a chance to play again following the rules to get their money back.
you are so kind spending your time on this, thank you but still if necessary that can be done by our team itself 
You haven't changed you OP yet.
You should do that since it's advertising things about your site which are not true.
Right?
Hello?
Why are you ignoring me?
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For those that are too skeptical to check out the long accusation thread: Betcoin player hits progressive Jackpot worth over BTC500, Betsoft won't pay and Betcoin attempts to cover it up with lies[/url] Pretty serious accusation against Betcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1517648.0Cliffs: JasonOrt bets max with .5 denom on Glam-Life and triggers 4 extra spins. On 4th spin he gets 5 yacht symbols and wins 1000 credits, not jackpot. Pay table says:  (No other rules found anywhere about Jackpot) A) Betcoin tells him he was not eligible because it was a free spin and attempt to shame him by telling him most players know what he does not: most players understand that it is a bonus or free round and there are different outcomes because of that. Then lock his thread: https://www.betcoin.ag/should-pay-line-have-won-jackpot-glam-life, and delete most of the comments. Jasons Defense:GreedyGoblins is another slot with a progressive Jackpot offered by the same service provider. Here you can see they clarify that even though the freespin round offers multipliers, the jackpot can not be multiplied. This implies that the jackpot is not excluded during free spins. 
B) Betsoft Gaming tells him he was not eligible because he did not bet max with the highest denomination.Thank you for your inquiry. We can confirm that your win was correct in this situation. A maximum bet for this game is the highest denomination which is 1.00, whereas in this particular round, you bet 0.50, even though you chose 'Max Bet', the jackpot is only won when it is the maximum bet (1.00). Jasons Defense:Every denomination clearly has an independant jackpot. When you switch denominations, the jackpot changes. On casinolistings.com they track bovadas Glam Life Jackpot. It's clear they are independant and all denominations are eligible:  The owner of casinolistings.com also chimed in: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1517648.msg15313569#msg15313569
Finally we have the comments of plo8monster, Betcoins lone site "pro" and the father half of the father/son chat mods. While being discussed in chat he sided with Betcoin immediately: plo8monster: thats totally not true lol ungod ... the bonus max out at 1000chips, and the vendor has that rule .. betcoin dont pay it the vendor does ... you guys all jump on bandwagon ... but these are vendors that do sports and casino games ..... I dont have time to get into this tonight ...but the vendor limits bonus wins @ 1000 chips .... if he were spending his money and made that spin he would be Phat with coin
After the story was clear, 2 days later, he made these statements: plo8monster: i told you im not gonna to join that conversation ..im a poker pro smart enuf not to play slots ...i played maybe 10 times in my life
plo8monster: i am not knowledgable about slots
plo8monster: slots is not something i can help with i know zero about them
plo8monster: I had a roomate at that time playing my slots and showing me how with my bonuses ... but i am not a slots player
plo8monster: why ya gotta be such a biiiish twitchy
plo8monster: this issue with Jason is NOT MY BUSINESS ... how many times must i tell you same thing it is waste of time
Hopefully Betcoin will have time to respond to this sometime between thanking users for kind words and going home for the weekend. Oh almost forgot, the jackpot was 1,007,249.91 credits at .5mbtc denomination. (503.6249 BTC current value of ~$383,000) |
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I have never understood take back % how does it work ? Like if I lose 100btc what do I get back ? And why do you do take back ? To attract people or ?
In poker you aren't playing against the house, you're playing against other players. Instead of a "house edge" the house takes a commision based on how big the pot is (in cash games) or on how much the buyin is (for tournaments). As part of the loyalty program/affiliate program, Betcoin returns a % of the commision they take to the player/affiliate. Unfortunately, Betcoin doesn't return the % they advertise. Instead of adjusting what they advertise, or returning what they advertise, they choose to lie about it and cover it up. Because of the nature of the game, most players do not realize they are being shorted. |
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You are fully aware they don't pay the rakeback as advertised. (I was missing over $2k, they lied about it and ignored me)
I also think players deserve to know:
-Community is heavily censored and full of scammers.
- They have been converting usd/btc at more than 10% under market rate.
- Current scam accusation involving Betcoin siding with software provider over a 500+ btc jackpot. Look into it and make your own opinion.
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