I think this deserves a requote. Mike is smart to make everything public, it's strange how people will get so focused on one mode of thinking that they cannot see the forest through the trees. In some way I could understand Vic's mode of thinking, he has a large amount of investment in PayCoin and is watching it drop in price daily and feels helpless and wants someone to blame.
ViK from BadBitcoin.org and I have been having a series of written debates back and forth via email.
I'm publishing them here.
First Email with ResponsesViK,
You do realise that when all this is over, you will have destroyed much confidence across the entire industry, and caused additional damage to an innovative company and entrepeneur for no benefit to anybody – including yourself. Your reputation will be toast, your work wasted, and a trail of damage and individual losses in your wake.
I am aware that my reputation and that of Coin Fire is truly on the line with this series of reports and investigations.
I am intimately aware that my personal losses will be great in the event I am incorrect. We are working to open source our entire financial state on our site.
Your early stuff, where it was all a revelation to you, finding press releases are sometimes over egged seemed ok, but then you failed to read T&C’s and felt like we were all being scammed. That wasn’t true, we all fully understood those software based returns, the hashlets were priced accordingly. You went on to believe it was a ponzi – well that’s one helluva electricity bill for a ponzi.
The unpaid electric bill doesn’t mean it wasn’t fractional mining and evidence to support that will be made available in the future.
It seems that in your naivety, you also believe the BCT forum users as truthful, but I can tell you that no serious player in this industry uses BCT except rarely, and believes nothing that they read on there without doing their own diligence. I haven’t put a post on there in over a year, it just attracts trolls and abuse, whoever posts.
Please, show me direct information we obtained from BCT in regards to this investigation? Our information has been sourced from government sources, those intimately involved as employees of GAW and other reliable sources.
My own background is one of serious IT, business, networks, security and forensics. I am security cleared and key worker status to nuclear power levels, and I have a knowledge of the bitcoin space that you could only envy, and so when I read your articles, and see the damage you do, and I find no truth in them, it makes me angry as hell. You are an amateur in this industry, but the damage you are doing is far from amateurish. I ran a BBS as early as 1990, opened my first computer service business in 1993, I’ve worked for nearly all the major companies in IT that you’ve ever heard of, and have founded and sold on many companies over the years, so I understand business, accountancy, legitimacy and can spot a scam from 100 metres away. I’ve also understood Bitcoin for 4 years, and the change it will bring to society. I am an ardent socialist. My diverse team have similar and varied qualifications to do what we do.
This is your opinion and irrelevant to my fact-finding operations.
To your own qualifications to do what you do – do you have any skills or experience that would justify your self appointed position? You are so in over your head.
Cryptocurrency was around for years before you even heard of it and yet you crown yourself the king of scam exposers and go on a witchhunt against Josh Garza and GAW without any consideration of the damage to this entire movement. It is inexcusable, and you have a duty to stop this vicious unwarranted campaign right now. You should perhaps take a course in investigative journalism, where they will teach you to consider the wider picture, the implications and consequences of your reporting, and ethics.
Once again, your opinion. I have never once declared Coin Fire the king of scam exposers. Nor have we engaged in a witch hunt. We simply report the news. Do you have relevant information here?
Public reporting has consequences. We are fully aware of these consequences, but our skills obviate risk, we get our facts 100% right, and source all our own information and evidence, including using some very powerful tools, and subscriptions to higher level information providers. We also get asked often by police forces to assist in investigations. We would never misreport about a public company because of the inevitable legal repercussions, so we get it right. We also consider the damage we may do if we get it wrong, or cause a ‘run’ or ‘panic’ as this can soon turn any legitimate operator into a failure simply by giving a dog a bad name, as you have almost done with this campaign of yours. Unprofessional doesn’t even begin to describe your reporting.
More personal opinion. Please, show me verifiable and true proof that you have helped investigators and law enforcement officials for assistance in investigations.
You are wrong about GAW, and you are wrong to cause these issues in an industry, where we are all, with the exception of yourself, directing our efforts toward mass adoption and ultimately the demise of central banking. Cryptocurrency is more important than your blog, you, or I, and your duty should be to help protect users, and the industry, not to create a self fulfilling prophecy by your actions.
It isn’t my duty to protect investments, My duty is with the news.
Please, show me where we have ever stated it is Coin Fire’s mission to protect investments. It is our job to report the news, fairly, objectively, transparently and honestly.
You have done some serious damage Mr Johnson, and you have also personally cost me and our project a lot of money and time. I want compensation for that, and compensation for the other honest investors into Zencloud, Hashlets and Paycoin, and that is why I aim to rally support for a legal challenge to your campaign
Don’t worry about letting us know your lawyers details, we’ll readily get them when we need them, and without your input – if you have a lawyer that is. There is nothing we can’t find out about you when we decide we need the information – it’s what we do. Just be grateful that we have ethics, and would never lower those ethical standards.
Once again, we are simply reporting the news. Your personal losses and poor investment choices are your own.
Again, more threats of legal action without action mean nothing.
The best thing you could do now is to retract some of your reports, cease this damaging rift causing campaign and re-evaluate your ethics and aims. Your aim in this space should be to help, not to damage. We help to educate users to the many scams out there, and give them personal help in tracing their stolen coins. We work with financial authorities worldwide, we are followed and contacted by Police and regulators, because we are a solid source of facts, and we happily supply case files to authorities on request.
We will not retract statements that we have verified as true.
Our ethics are on the website. Everyone can see them.
Again, provide proof you help authorities in investigations.
Consider what you do – and is it really just. Josh has a family to support as well, and he has never set out to scam anybody.
If you decide that you will reconsider this hate camapign of yours, then I am also prepared to reconsider this legal challenge – because I have integrity.
Personal opinions, once again. Facts are what we deal in.
If you’d like to bring a civil action against us, once again, you are more than welcome to do so.
Second Email with ResponsesViK,
Although Josh is now bound to SEC and FBI agreements regarding a lot of stuff, info still comes out.
You have ardently claimed that the SEC investigations are not real, yet here, you admit that they are. Which way is it?
Further evidence that Josh was not making hollow claims, and that these things were happening. Perhaps there was the wrong choice of terms, using the word partnership, but what other word best describes it?
Please, show the full evidence.
Now do you start to get how much harm you are doing and have done, and how much was actually really due to happen before you did all this. The crypto industry is a lot looser in it’s use of terms, and is evolving on a daily basis. Much has also been affected by btc price volatility, and that wasn’t josh’s fault either, although to be honest mate, all this is also serving to reduce overall confidence.
The Gyft thing as well, this was denied publicly by Vinny, the gyft ceo, but not until you had started this disinformation campaign, and just to save face by that ceo, though the claim was later verified by those hacked emails.
You, yourself, stated the hacked emails were not information that could be verified. Coin Fire never ran anything from those hacked / leaked emails. Not one item.
We have seen the full range of emails for Mr. Garza based on warrants and subpoenas. I can assure you that the Gyft information was trumped up. Nothing more than an affiliate program.
Once again, Coin Fire never reported on GoCoin. We never once posted anything casting doubt on that agreement. Please, show me where we said otherwise.
You have so far done a lot of unwarranted and unwelcome damage – but it’s never too late to help undo some of that. You personally owe it to all those people who stand to lose a lot of money due to your campaign, and your kudos would certainly benefit.
One guy has lost his daughters entire college fund to this debarcle. It just didn’t need to be that way, it shouldn’t have happened. You are squarely responsible, and I don’t know how you reconcile that.
We simply reported the facts. It is not my job to protect your investment. My job is to simply share the facts.
We are not responsible for the investments people make. We don’t offer investment advice. We simply report the facts.
I absolutely hate all this animosity, I have better things to do – but if you are going to continue to falsely accuse GAW, Josh Garza and Paycoin, then I for one am going to come squarely to their defense. It is a stated aim of Badbitcoin.org to help clear a path for the good actors, and I stand by that.
Yet, you continue to attack us on every platform. Please, provide proof our statements are false accusations.
Third email with responsesViK,
Strictly Confidential and Without Prejudice.
Literally has no legal bearing.
This really is the final time, that I want to spend my time appealing to your common sense and sense of honour, which I quite strangely, still think you may possess.
I’m sure you are becoming pretty aware that you have done a lot of damage, and that you have published a great many untruths, slurs and just plain lies, but you really don’t seem to know when to give up. I think it is telling that Josh Garza avoids even mentioning you and won’t discuss these matters with you – even privately, and that you should maybe read between the lines on this.
As stated in all of the previous messages of this thread, we have simply reported the truth. The complete and whole truth.
I think you should get your facts correct. Your holiness Mr. Gawd himself emailed me just the other day. Want proof? I can easily forward it.
He reached out, in a time of desperation to have us present information that he believed would solidify others against the Paycoin Foundation.
The information that you’ve been spoonfed, especially by disgruntled ex-employees of GAW is currently very much in question, and any journalist, or law officer knows that information from people with their own agenda is usually not to be trusted, and can normally be disregarded.
99% of our information comes directly from government documents themselves. Not from ex-employees. We simply hear the stories from them. We haven’t ran information from them. We simply use the information they tell us to match with information we have already obtained. It has no bearing on our reporting 99% of the time.
We have been very careful not to report, and so disrupt the ongoing FBI investigations into these matters, and we were made aware of that investigation as early as 11th March.
Regarding the SEC investigation. At the time you reported a SEC investigation, there was none. This investigation as well as the FBI investigation was by invitation as part of the process of refuting allegations of fraud, clarifying compliance issues, investigating hacks by as it turns out these same employees, and came at a later date.
Sorry – but those really are the facts, we knew a lot of that already, and those facts are now emerging in full technicolour.
ViK, are you truly so delusional that you believe a “no name”, “pointless” site as you have stated in the past really had the ability to bring down the powers of the United States Government upon Josh?
The investigation WAS taking place before our reporting began. If you truly believe that our reporting somehow made them suddenly begin investigating then you believe Coin Fire to be infinitely more influential than you have been stating publicly.
We have never reported on an FBI aspect. If you truly believe GAW invited the SEC to look at operations then why did they obtain a subpoena?
Companies that volunteer information aren’t forced to turn it over via a subpoena.
Also, why did Josh outright and publicly state he was NOT complying with the subpoena and request for investor information?
Does that sound like someone who volunteered information and ASKED the SEC to investigate?
Are you aware of how these investigations work?
I think you may also begin to realise, as I have, that you could simply have been used as a platform by certain people to further their own agenda, and I really think you should look into these peoples connections and aims before simply believing them. I’m sure that none of them would rush to your defense if it comes to it.
This aspect could fortunately for you be your ‘get out of jail free’ card, and since I promise to keep this email and conversation confidential, it will also give you a chance to deploy that excuse in your defense.
Again, our information comes from government sources. Sources we are not legally obligated under shield laws to reveal. Here in the United States laws protect this sort of thing.
I’m just too stable to harbour vindictiveness, lifes too short, my wife is on dialysis and awaiting a kidney transplant, and I have all that to contend with as well as administering Badbitcoin.org, keeping the team busy and spending half my day verifying information, responding to reports and filing full reports to the FCA and the Met’
Yet, you still email repeatedly, you continue to ask others to attack us on social media.
A lot of stuff you’ve done and said has made my blood boil, and I hate that you’ve been able to cause me those levels of stress, so a solution has to be found. This witch hunt of yours just has to end, and ideally end for all the right reasons, and an apology is definitely in order for the damaging reports you’ve made, that have hurt innocent people.
I do say stuff on impulse like everybody, but I assure you that I also make things happen if that proves to be the only solution.
The threat at the last sentence made this extra fun to read.
Having said all that – it’s all your choice, we’ve been here before, and you have chosen to continue your crusade despite the weight of evidence telling you that you were on the wrong side of this, and sadly I expect you will continue based on your track record. It isn’t about winning or losing, there are no winners, the damage caused is immense to all parties, and none of us come out this smiling at this time, but there really is a final opportunity for you to mitigate this damage.
Our job isn’t to mitigate the damage. It is to report the news and the facts.
The worst case scenario for you is if the larger holders of XPY get their $20, GAW get rich, and decide to use some of that wealth toward legal matters. There are some damned angry investors out there, a damned angry and unforgiving CEO, and you are currently in prime place to become the focus of that aggression.
Another threat?
Do the right thing please. What is right in your perspective now may not be the best route for you, so step back and look at the situation from a 3rd partys viewpoint and it may look a little different. There is no shame in admitting you were misled, and mistaken, as long as you learn from that, in fact it is only an honourable man that is ever strong enough to admit that they got it wrong, and that garners respect.
I hope you remember this statement for your own sake.
It’s your choice where all this goes from here, but as you have nothing left supporting your allegations, you should really plan your most graceful exit from this folly. You will certainly earn my respect if you choose the right route, even at this late stage when I, especially don’t need to offer this.
Enough – I’m tired.
Once again, we have no exit to make and plenty of materials have supported our allegations. I’d suggest you go read Vice. They are a mainstream media organization who vetted the documents and even released the unredacted version that you initially called fake.
Regards - ViK
vik@badbitcoin.org Ps. Since you may not already know, the wording at the top of this correspondence is important and is respected in law.
No, the wording at the top isn’t and just to be sure, I forwarded this on to our attorneys and we will be publishing the full series of emails online with my responses so that others can see your veiled threats and childish games.
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