Let me say a few things, Zhou Tong. I don't know if Bitcoinica was properly registered and where, but if it was, then CJH should be a member of the company and we should be able to see his name on some documents, or otherwise he shouldn't get access to the password, which is the company's assets, right? If you are not careful with that, then you have to prepare for the consequences, which is what you're experiencing now:you are unable to prove your innocence. For another, providing that you told the truth about the hacking incident, you were still being irresponsible for not properly storing the company's funds in cold wallets.
Whatever maybe the case, try to stay low key, your return will not be something worth celebrating about as many people, especially victims of the hacking incident, will remain suspicious about you.
The "password" to the LastPass account was found in the source code leaked by genjix. I didn't set it or leak the source code. I have only heard of "innocent until proven guilty", not the other way round. Plus, how can innocence ever be proven? I can get a police clearance tomorrow, if you like. EDIT: Clearly CJH is an outsider. Even I am not the member of the company. I sold Bitcoinica in 2011. "Innocent until proven guilty" only works when you are facing a possible prosecution, doesn't apply when you're trying to get people's trust for your business. Okay you may not give him the password, but how did you figure out it was him who did the hack? Did you have any evidence against him? I was not asking for trust. I will build something that requires little trust (such as open source app, for example). There was a credit card of Bitcoinica's accountant in the LastPass account used to pay some bills. CJH used that card to purchase stuff on Amazon shipped to a freight forwarder with his real name. The confirmation email was sent to the sock puppet email account. I explained it 11 months ago and no one read. |
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Let me say a few things, Zhou Tong. I don't know if Bitcoinica was properly registered and where, but if it was, then CJH should be a member of the company and we should be able to see his name on some documents, or otherwise he shouldn't get access to the password, which is the company's assets, right? If you are not careful with that, then you have to prepare for the consequences, which is what you're experiencing now:you are unable to prove your innocence. For another, providing that you told the truth about the hacking incident, you were still being irresponsible for not properly storing the company's funds in cold wallets.
Whatever maybe the case, try to stay low key, your return will not be something worth celebrating about as many people, especially victims of the hacking incident, will remain suspicious about you.
The "password" to the LastPass account was found in the source code leaked by genjix. I didn't set it or leak the source code. I have only heard of "innocent until proven guilty", not the other way round. Plus, how can innocence ever be proven? I can get a police clearance tomorrow, if you like. EDIT: Clearly CJH is an outsider. Even I am not the member of the company. I sold Bitcoinica in 2011. |
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Lesson for aspiring Bitcoin scammers: When caught red-handed, just make up bizarre fairytales with shakespearean characters and amazing coincidences. You'll get a free pass and will be praised by the community. It's a scam made up (fairly successfully) by AurumXchange. Look at who has the money right now: AurumXchange has my $40K and Mt. Gox has Bitcoinica creditors' over $2 million worth of Bitcoins. (I'm not saying Mt. Gox is wrong or anything. It's merely a fact.) I have nothing (and 5000 BTC LESS in my pocket). Thank you for your sarcasm. I believe the free pass and praise will be more valuable if you identify the real scammer correctly. If you are the victim who is the real scammer? Your made up friend in china? You answered your own question. If you are not believing me, there's no way I can answer your questions. Both of your posts are phrased similar to: "Is Goat the hacker? Or is Goat too afraid to admit it?" CJH is a real person. I shopped at his Taobao store before. He hacked Bitcoinica and admitted it and returned majority of the funds. I don't think he's living with any gains from the hack now. But he can no longer be contacted regardless. How did your friend get your password? Did he hack you or use vilonce? Or did you give it to him? The password was heavily re-used. He could easy find out if he used plain text password in any of his websites. EDIT: It seems that you have almost zero knowledge for the entire incident. I'm back in this forum to contribute, not arguing things that were already clarified long ago. If you really have that many questions to ask, please email bitcointalk@zhoutong.com. I will try my best to entertain your request. Thanks! EDIT 2: CJH is not my friend. I don't have a friend like him. He gave me advice on anti-fraud payment systems on QQ and I paid him. He wouldn't help out of friendship. |
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Lesson for aspiring Bitcoin scammers: When caught red-handed, just make up bizarre fairytales with shakespearean characters and amazing coincidences. You'll get a free pass and will be praised by the community. It's a scam made up (fairly successfully) by AurumXchange. Look at who has the money right now: AurumXchange has my $40K and Mt. Gox has Bitcoinica creditors' over $2 million worth of Bitcoins. (I'm not saying Mt. Gox is wrong or anything. It's merely a fact.) I have nothing (and 5000 BTC LESS in my pocket). Thank you for your sarcasm. I believe the free pass and praise will be more valuable if you identify the real scammer correctly. If you are the victim who is the real scammer? Your made up friend in china? You answered your own question. If you are not believing me, there's no way I can answer your questions. Both of your posts are phrased similar to: "Is Goat the hacker? Or is Goat too afraid to admit it?" CJH is a real person. I shopped at his Taobao store before. He hacked Bitcoinica and admitted it and returned majority of the funds. I don't think he's living with any gains from the hack now. But he can no longer be contacted regardless. |
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Yeah, zhoutong isn't a bad guy. Maybe a few holes in the original code, then followed up by new ownership that were more careless and - boom - shit storm.
Still, zhoutong made a valuable contribution to the bitcoin community with good intentions.
welcome back.
The code may be bad (a lot better now), but that's not the direct cause of the hacks. The infrastructure is a bigger problem. As I was the only guy building infrastructure, I will take the responsibility. Objectives for my next project: - Test code ratio: 1.5 : 1 - LOC/M: 5-6 - Leave infrastructure to a more experienced sysadmin/security professional that I personally know Thanks for the trust and support! |
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Lesson for aspiring Bitcoin scammers: When caught red-handed, just make up bizarre fairytales with shakespearean characters and amazing coincidences. You'll get a free pass and will be praised by the community. It's a scam made up (fairly successfully) by AurumXchange. Look at who has the money right now: AurumXchange has my $40K and Mt. Gox has Bitcoinica creditors' over $2 million worth of Bitcoins. (I'm not saying Mt. Gox is wrong or anything. It's merely a fact.) I have nothing (and 5000 BTC LESS in my pocket). Thank you for your sarcasm. I believe the free pass and praise will be more valuable if you identify the real scammer correctly. |
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Oh look who it is.
How is the Chinese relic hunter multi-billionaire triad boss über hacker?
Unfortunately he can't be reached any more. It's always easy to just go offline forever. He did return majority of the funds, just not in the right combination of USD and BTC. I don't think he enjoys the incident. He is/was living in Heilongjiang Province, which is too cold for me to even travel there (I go to China only during fall or winter). I don't think the address is where he lives though. I believe he was referring to you, could be wrong though. Made up people often live in cold places. Just look at Santa. Matthew the two time scammer tag troll you paid trying to make you look like the victim in all of this is not going to work out too well. It would be best to assist in cleaning up your first mess (bitcoinica and its "hack") before you make a new project. I'm pragmatic - I want to maximize my value for the community. Unfortunately there's really nothing much I can do to accelerate Bitcoinica's liquidation. I wasn't even a shareholder or creditor (so I can't sue them for compensation or anything). So instead of hoping for the best with something I really don't have the capacity to do, I'm thinking of doing something that's 1) good for Bitcoin and 2) not requiring much trust. |
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Oh look who it is.
How is the Chinese relic hunter multi-billionaire triad boss über hacker?
Unfortunately he can't be reached any more. It's always easy to just go offline forever. He did return majority of the funds, just not in the right combination of USD and BTC. I don't think he enjoys the incident. He is/was living in Heilongjiang Province, which is too cold for me to even travel there (I go to China only during fall or winter). I don't think the address is where he lives though. |
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You say that there is no place to short bitcoins but Bitfinex is up and running using your code from Bitcoinica.
Have you checked that out?
You can buy Put options through MPEX. It's not quite the Addictive nature of margin trading ala bitcoinica but definitely has a place in a solid financial plan. And dare I say that the security model inspires. Yeah, I like MPEX's model. I think it'll inspire me a lot if I'm going to start another Bitcoin venture (IF). |
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You say that there is no place to short bitcoins but Bitfinex is up and running using your code from Bitcoinica.
Have you checked that out?
Yes. I'm not so sure whether the code is based on Bitcoinica. Anyway, I think there's still no trading venue that has the amount of trades that Bitcoinica had. At its peak Bitcoinica had 150000 BTC open interest. That's what I mean by "viable way of shorting". |
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...
I know a lot of people are being hurt by the incident. So is me. I really hope that my previous compensation was valuable and useful to the people being hurt. 5000 BTC at peak Bitcoin price was several multiples of Bitcoinica's sale price but I had no regret for doing something I could to help people in need....[/size]
Answer me this please. The main reason Bitcoinica fund haven't been returned yet is because the database of who is owed what has "vanished". How have you managed to pay a fair share of 5000btc to creditors if nobody else can ? I had made a claim to you very early but, Your form was poorly constructed to account for open positions You didn't read the note field. And proceeded to full payment the day later. You've skipped over my claim in the same way you've paid bogus claims. I hold you and your imaginary friend "Chen" as the only suspect to that last theft (With a mountain of evidences). Zhou can you please post a copy of your police report of your charges against Chen? Or did you not file a report because he is not a real person? Neither. I didn't because I was not a victim. I didn't assume the obligation to do this as a former developer of Bitcoinica. Also, he did return majority of the hacked funds, but in the wrong form of assets unfortunately (he sold some Bitcoins). In any case, almost all distributable assets are with Mt. Gox now. I'm not here to judge whether they should withhold the funds or not, as I don't know anything about the liquidator. |
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...
I know a lot of people are being hurt by the incident. So is me. I really hope that my previous compensation was valuable and useful to the people being hurt. 5000 BTC at peak Bitcoin price was several multiples of Bitcoinica's sale price but I had no regret for doing something I could to help people in need....[/size]
Answer me this please. The main reason Bitcoinica fund haven't been returned yet is because the database of who is owed what has "vanished". How have you managed to pay a fair share of 5000btc to creditors if nobody else can ? I had made a claim to you very early but, Your form was poorly constructed to account for open positions You didn't read the note field. And proceeded to full payment the day later. You've skipped over my claim in the same way you've paid bogus claims. I hold you and your imaginary friend "Chen" as the only suspect to that last theft (With a mountain of evidences). OK. The 5000 BTC is my personal funds, so I get to decide how to distribute and allocate. You are Bitcoinica's creditor, not mine. At the beginning it was not meant to be a replacement of Bitcoinica's compensation claim. I just wanted to help, whether equitable or not. I assumed everyone was honest. I didn't have the time to carefully examine each claim, so I went through very quickly to filter bonus ones. Since I believe it's better to pass a bonus claim rather than fail an honest claim, my standard was not strict. I'm sorry if you think the process is unfair. But that's over 80% of my entire Bitcoin savings. Mt. Gox is currently withholding Bitcoinica's assets distributable to Bitcoinica creditors including at least 20000 BTC (I'm not sure of the exact numbers). That's where the money should come from. I was just making a donation to people who were affected. |
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I had a question that repentance had answered previously, but I wanted to get clarification.
When AurumXChange locked up your funds (was it like $50,000?), you said they never gave it back (even to this day), but repentance said it wasn't your funds but your friends, so there is no way to get it back. Can you clarify?
Honestly, I don't care about those funds or your friend, I just don't like the idea of MtGox, AurumXChange, etc jacking funds from people whenever they personally feel it's legitimate to do so (without any legal request to do so) and then never answering questions about it later.
Where did that money even go?
I was doing a LR->USD exchange for a Singapore friend (total $100K, and $30K in XMLGold, $40K in AurumXChange, and the rest OTC). He paid me $100K in LR and I paid my friend $100K in full (taking a huge loss), so the $40K should be mine. It's a transfer from my LR account to my bank account. It's never a third-party transfer like some other said. At that time, I told CJH (the Bitcoinica hacker) about AurumXChange's accusation (I had to tell). He decided to withhold $40K from the payment to Patrick Murck. I asked him not to, but he persisted. Later, he gave me a verified Alipay account with $40K equivalent in CNY. I didn't bother to touch the funds because AurumXChange was lying to me about their correspondence. (To date I still haven't received a single email from them, despite their false claims on the forum). Now CJH is gone (phone: powered off, QQ: offline, email: no response) and the Alipay account got its password changed (most likely by him after withdrawing the funds). So AurumXChange has succeeded in ripping off $40K by using the coincidence of Bitcoinica hack and my Singapore trip (I can even show anyone my passport stamps of leaving Australia during the hack, PM me). There was no AML investigation and I didn't receive anything. I allowed them to send to Bitcoinica because I felt it's better in Bitcoinica creditors' hands rather than theirs. No matter how they feel about whether it's an insider job or not (it's not), they have my full consent to send money to Bitcoinica. (Even if it's really an insider job, the money should also be sent to Bitcoinica, with or without my consent). But they clearly didn't do anything and kept the funds for themselves. I'm no longer mad at them but I still hope AurumXchange can do the right thing. I will take the reputation hit as a punishment for not choosing business partners carefully (the Bitcoinica Consultancy) and it's understandable that AurumXchange wanted to do good for the community by revealing suspects. Thank you for clarifying what I had suspected. I don't feel so bad for how I originally reacted to them now. Thank you for your trust and support. I have updated my previous reply with travel proof. |
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I had a question that repentance had answered previously, but I wanted to get clarification.
When AurumXChange locked up your funds (was it like $50,000?), you said they never gave it back (even to this day), but repentance said it wasn't your funds but your friends, so there is no way to get it back. Can you clarify?
Honestly, I don't care about those funds or your friend, I just don't like the idea of MtGox, AurumXChange, etc jacking funds from people whenever they personally feel it's legitimate to do so (without any legal request to do so) and then never answering questions about it later.
Where did that money even go?
I was doing a LR->USD exchange for a Singapore friend (total $100K, and $30K in XMLGold, $40K in AurumXChange, and the rest OTC). He paid me $100K in LR and I paid my friend $100K in full (taking a huge loss), so the $40K should be mine. It's a transfer from my LR account to my bank account. It's never a third-party transfer like some other said. At that time, I told CJH (the Bitcoinica hacker) about AurumXChange's accusation (I had to tell). He decided to withhold $40K from the payment to Patrick Murck. I asked him not to, but he persisted. Later, he gave me a verified Alipay account with $40K equivalent in CNY. I didn't bother to touch the funds because AurumXChange was lying to me about their correspondence. (To date I still haven't received a single email from them, despite their false claims on the forum). Now CJH is gone (phone: powered off, QQ: offline, email: no response) and the Alipay account got its password changed (most likely by him after withdrawing the funds). So AurumXChange has succeeded in ripping off $40K by using the coincidence of Bitcoinica hack and my Singapore trip (I can even show anyone my passport stamps of leaving Australia during the hack, PM me). There was no AML investigation and I didn't receive anything. I allowed them to send to Bitcoinica because I felt it's better in Bitcoinica creditors' hands rather than theirs. No matter how they feel about whether it's an insider job or not (it's not), they have my full consent to send money to Bitcoinica. (Even if it's really an insider job, the money should also be sent to Bitcoinica, with or without my consent). But they clearly didn't do anything and kept the funds for themselves. I'm no longer mad at them but I still hope AurumXchange can do the right thing. I will take the reputation hit as a punishment for not choosing business partners carefully (the Bitcoinica Consultancy) and it's understandable that AurumXchange wanted to do good for the community by revealing suspects. EDIT WITH PROOF: Bitcoinica was hacked on July 13 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93074.0Depart Australia:
(Passport Number blocked off)  Enter Australia:(Passport Number blocked off)  Flight Ticket:(Frequent Flyer number and Ticket number blocked off) (Note that the original flight were oversold, so I travelled on the 14th of July instead of 13th.)  |
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ZT, how do u feel about the funder of bitcoinica is now a funder of coinlab?
I have nothing but gratefulness for Tihan. Regardless of the result, he literally changed my life. I wouldn't ever call myself an entrepreneur without his support. For the CoinLab thing, I really have no comment at the moment. I didn't follow this company very closely. So, how old are you now, and how much coins do you currently hold, if it's no secret? I'm 18 years old. I personally hold less than 100 BTC and I have given my family a 100 BTC gold-plated bar plus 28 Casascius Series I coins (so technically no longer mine). I have sold the 1000 BTC during the recent price spike for some investment in a new company (unrelated to Bitcoin or domains). Another (minor) reason was that I felt that Bitcoin was overpriced. |
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ZT, how do u feel about the funder of bitcoinica is now a funder of coinlab?
I have nothing but gratefulness for Tihan. Regardless of the result, he literally changed my life. I wouldn't ever call myself an entrepreneur without his support. For the CoinLab thing, I really have no comment at the moment. I didn't follow this company very closely. |
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Great to have you back. Thanks for the music videos in the meantime!
The videos were made by ZhouTonged. Completely different person. I assumed the quoted reply was sarcasm. But if not, yeah, totally different. |
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Fascinating! It seems like no one can ever really stay away from this place. I guess the next thread will be started by Pirate or Clipse.
I'm a little disturbed by the fact that I'm being compared to users with scammer tags. But anyway, hope Satoshi will be back soon. |
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Great to have you back. Thanks for the music videos in the meantime!
I'm pretty sure that I don't deserve the attribution of the videos. I didn't have time to enjoy them but I will when I'm bored. |
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It has been exactly 345 days since I left Bitcoin ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81581.0). Nothing really has changed, except the soaring prices (it doesn't have a lot to do with me other than seeing my out-of-pocket 5,000 BTC personal compensation is valued at >$1 million at peak, that was over 80% of my entire Bitcoin savings and I didn't purchase more after the incident). Bitcoinica LP is still not liquidated with zero progress of the fund return. In fact, I have been following the forum for some time (I changed my forum account password to resist my temptation to login again). I have been searching my name every 9 days ever since I logged out last time. When I left Bitcoin, I felt that I was not adding value to the economy by developing Bitcoinica because speculation is a zero-sum game. But now after seeing speculative activity sky-rocketing without a viable solution to short Bitcoin: I'm feeling a bit regretful that I sold Bitcoinica. Without selling Bitcoinica, the Linode hack would still happen, but the platform can still survive with the profits it generated. There wouldn't be the Rackspace hack or the Mt. Gox hack because the email server wouldn't be compromised and the source code wouldn't be leaked by an insider. The platform might still be around to serve Bitcoiners by maintaining the price stability more effectively than a single long-only exchange. But that's daydream. I'm not going to start another Bitcoin exchange. Bitcoin is not just a speculative vehicle. It's the first currency/commodity/whatever with both 1) strictly limited quantities and 2) native mechanism to be transmitted over data networks. We desperately need killer apps that make Bitcoin a truly global alternative currency that replaces some of the functions of the traditional banking system. (Note that I'm not so ambitious that Bitcoin will replace fiat currencies. I think it's more beneficial to the world economy by being a parallel/alternative currency, like gold. This is just an opinion, though.) The Bitcoin community has given me nightmares (mainly the reputation hit) but I'm never giving up on Bitcoin. True believers are going to be believers forever. I don't really have any clear ideas at the moment, but I'll be more than happy to build a killer app for Bitcoin from stratch. If you have any thoughts, feel free to PM me or email me at bitcointalk@zhoutong.com. I'm also answering any questions you have in this thread. I really hope that I can provide valuable service to the community and regain the lost trust/reputation by building something really useful. PS> Despite my repeated clarifications, I want to say the same thing again:
As I had no financial interest in Bitcoinica LP after early 2012, I had no savings that were owed or distributable to Bitcoinica creditors other than the 5000 BTC compensation out of my personal funds. As I was neither the director nor an owner of any Bitcoinica-related entity since then, I had no power to do anything to help the creditors.
I know a lot of people are being hurt by the incident. So is me. I really hope that my previous compensation was valuable and useful to the people being hurt. 5000 BTC at peak Bitcoin price was several multiples of Bitcoinica's sale price but I had no regret for doing something I could to help people in need. |
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