I was right when I signaled two weeks ago at #kncminer channel that the Saturn seems to work better in higher temperature.
Now many people confirm it.
Going from 40-42 C to 48.5-50 C moves avg from 267 to 274 (at cgminer AND at the pool) and WU from 3850-3900 to 4010.
just plain crazy isn't? My rig room is at 84 degree F, and my saturn is running the best it's ever ran.... btcg stats: miner_knc 256.86 GH/s 44,536k (99.83%) when before w/ extra fans and a/c I was at 220/230GH/s max at btcg.... Dam, now I am starting to wonder about the earlier firmwares that ran w/ low error rates, but low hashing too, maybe with this "HEATING" solution they might run even better than .97? |
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I was right when I signaled two weeks ago at #kncminer channel that the Saturn seems to work better in higher temperature.
Now many people confirm it.
Going from 40-42 C to 48.5-50 C moves avg from 267 to 274 (at cgminer AND at the pool) and WU from 3850-3900 to 4010.
just plain crazy isn't? My rig room is at 84 degree F, and my saturn is running the best it's ever ran.... btcg stats: miner_knc 256.86 GH/s 44,536k (99.83%) when before w/ extra fans and a/c I was at 220/230GH/s max at btcg.... |
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Well I still am getting the "Running (Connect to CGMiner API failed)" error from the web GUI.
Yes, I have cleared the cash on the browser, AND used a different browser.
More importantly I can tell it isn't doing anything because the pool isn't getting much work.
Looks like 0.96 isn't up to prime time for my Mercury. Going back to 0.95 because at least that was hashing something. Unless there is something else to do to get 0.96 to work?
Thanks,
_theJestre
I have similar problems with my Saturn. Download bertmod and check the stats of your VRMs. You might have a bad unit or two. I have 3 bad VRMs out of my two boards. My guess is that with BAD VRMs you cannot update to the higher fw, probably because they are more well adjusted to work with the VRMs, and since some VRMs are not functioning [properly, or at all, like in my case], its causing the later fw to not work. The only fw I can get running stable is fw 0.9.4. Out of my Saturn, I am averaging 150gh/s. Check with the bertmod patch, you might need to RMA the board. Or you could try all the tricks the good folks here have discussed. I've tried them all (other then disabling fans), and nothing fixed it. Bertmod: http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/6183-bertmod-0-2-unofficial-firmware-mod-feedback-threadI don't know if your problem is related, but I am now starting to suspect that a little extra heat (rather than cooling) and now as of recently, tightening down (slightly) on the heat sink crossmember screws (WHICH MOST LIKELY PUSHES THE CHIP DOWN AS WELL) has improved performance ON SOME machines....I suspect on yours, and I don't know DIDDLY (other than Bo), that you will probably find some of the screws on the crossmember for the heatsink can use a little tightening.....which in turn will probably make the chip have better contact to the board, then you will notice change in VRM stats...HOPEFULLY. Disclosure...I KNOW NOTHING. good luck. |
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Hotter is better! I had a supplemental house fan & turned it off. ASICs fans are unplugged. Only left the tilted case fans on. FW 9.7 and Enablecores afterwards. No Bertmod yet. HW error rate was 19% before. Hashrate was mid-250s before. WU was 3900ish before. Considering putting the case back on also...    fiatkiller, you are bold w/ turning off heat sink fans....but i have to agree.... miner_knc 250.75 GH/s 44,156k (99.83%) my stats above on btcguild....AFTER TURNING OFF THE A/C....asic temps went up, but so did the HASHING as shown above... something that would normally range around 220GH/s is now a solid 250+GH/s, and yes, since error rate went from around 20% to now under 15%, that difference caused less wasted shares and more good share= higher hash rate at server. YAY! wish I had one that was super like phoenix1969's, who has 3 saturns all above 270GH/s, but I am now happy with my unit though and no a/c.... ps asic temps went from low to mid 40'c, to now upper 40's to low 50's celsius... |
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this "higher temp = higher performance" doesnt make a lot of sense. Design aside, there are only two factors affecting performance:
- clockspeed. Is this variable on KnC? Can it be measured?
- number of functional cores/ % of HW errors. Does this go down as temps go up?
Thats it. The rest is statistical noise.
sense or not. i have one jupiter that reacts in the same way. additional cooling with a big box-fan on top of the miner = cgminer crashes every 5 min. without box-fan = cgminer stable / higher avg GH. Can it be electrical interference from the fan's motor? They have quite a strong electromagnetic field when running. It's probably a effect called temperature inversion. 28nm logic gets faster with higher temperatures. http://siliconsaint.blogspot.com/2012/07/temperature-inversion-in-deep-sub.html?m=1I don't think so... That phenomenon might make it possible to clock a chip faster at a higher temperature, but it should not effect the speed of a chip that is clocked at a constant speed. Right? I honestly think it's a VRM thing... not an asic thing..  I would think that as long as the voltage from the VRM is above the chip's lower operating threshold, it should not make any difference, unless they are being overclocked heavily. could it be that the VRMs operate more efficiently at slightly higher temps and automatically provide slighlty higher amps without software/firmware instruction to do so....I do notice that the under performing chip has 2 cores with lower output volt. and current.....and that actually changes just by running the a/c and/or turning it off p.s. saturn is on a apc ups, so can't be wall flucs |
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Thought I would share this and maybe some here can even update it with new retailers.... http://coinmap.org/ |
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this "higher temp = higher performance" doesnt make a lot of sense. Design aside, there are only two factors affecting performance:
- clockspeed. Is this variable on KnC? Can it be measured?
- number of functional cores/ % of HW errors. Does this go down as temps go up?
Thats it. The rest is statistical noise.
sense or not. i have one jupiter that reacts in the same way. additional cooling with a big box-fan on top of the miner = cgminer crashes every 5 min. without box-fan = cgminer stable / higher avg GH. Can it be electrical interference from the fan's motor? They have quite a strong electromagnetic field when running. It's probably a effect called temperature inversion. 28nm logic gets faster with higher temperatures. http://siliconsaint.blogspot.com/2012/07/temperature-inversion-in-deep-sub.html?m=1Learn a new thing everyday, thanks hypermega for that nice find. |
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Also, how can I change the background color in putty or Linux?
Click on the icon of two connected computers in the upper left corner of the Putty window, and select 'Change Settings' from them menu. In the configuration dialog, select 'Window->Colors', and change any of the colors as you will. Thanks. I always hated white on black. Harder to read to me. I like dark font on lighter backgrounds. Also, been playing around with making the ASICs warmer. Best results so far are with case fans tilted towards the BBB and ASIC fans unplugged, but I still have a small house fan on Low at the empty end of the Saturn case tilted down to provide cooling for the VRM chips mainly. Temps are 46 & 41. WU is 4006(best ever), avg hashrate is 257(same as best ever), error rate is still high at over 18%, but best ever. This is after over 300K shares. I may actually turn the house fan off next, but that makes me nervous. Glad to hear the max temp is around 105C for the ASICs. well guess you are another anomaly, welcome to the club. just a guess, but maybe warmer temps allow the VRMs to do their jobs more effciently....look at your betmod stats to see any changes in input/out current and output volt.... |
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Some tips to overclock?
thanks
little that I know, you can only use firmware updates. I think I saw on irc some guys chatting away, or was it here, about having reversed engineered KNC's code.....there might be some real computer literates out there hacking away but nothing concrete yet.... |
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nemo, I actually had added 2 high cfm 140mm computer case fans, 1 for each board/chip on my Saturn. And it cooled the chips...no noticeable gain, no noticeable decline in performance neither. But at the time I wasn't considering or thinking yet about hotter is better at the time, so I wasn't paying attention to that. All I noticed was that I added those 2 fans it did cool it, but no performance gain.
So my Saturn came with .95. I did all the suggested mods, not happy went to .96 and was somewhat satisfied, ended with .97 but has high error rate.
So I have gone direct with power supply to asic boards (lost the knc extenders). Supposedly less resistance blah blah....nothing. More cooling with a large fan over head facing down, nothing.
So then soy suggested .90 blah blah....I gave it a whirl (even though some early units had fried on this firmware) and whamo, LOW ERRORS
HIGH HASH RATE (both on cgminer and at the pool server)....I was happy...for like 20 minutes til it crashed.....worked my way all the way back to .97 (which at this point works the best for me) but hashes with a 20% error rate, which is bad.....
So I have kept a journal of all changes, times, stats (temp, wu, hw etc etc etc), and saw that .90 performed the best, and per bertmod, showed output volt slightly higher, and output current way higher (like 50A+, and yeah I was scared), and temps were definitely higher like 52c...
so then I think people on the board have been mentioning ball arrays, and shipping possibly harming chip and chips seating better with heat (put asic board in oven or something) blah blah then a few post about heat making it better....
So all I did was unplug the large fan, the 2 added high cfm case fans and turn off the a/c unit in the office, and the number I noticed the most was less errors....slowly down to like 14%- 15%, which is still high but better than 20%. Slightly higher chip temps, and even slight higher watt usage.....throughout most of the stable mining on this saturn (usually .94 and up) 1 chip with 100% cores enabled and the "problem" chip with 0 upto 10 cores disabled
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this "higher temp = higher performance" doesnt make a lot of sense. Design aside, there are only two factors affecting performance:
- clockspeed. Is this variable on KnC? Can it be measured?
- number of functional cores/ % of HW errors. Does this go down as temps go up?
Thats it. The rest is statistical noise.
well believe it or not, my Saturn actually runs better warmer....maybe with heat things expand, and as some have said in earlier posting, maybe that help "seat" chip better, maybe heat make solder melt/soften and chip makes better contact..... all I know is that slightly warmer has actually produced slightly better numbers.....fwiw |
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 BAM... slow one still not quite done climbing, but Ewikis a happy camper now! all 0.97, and no doggone fans... not even the case fans, only the heatsink fans! ok, then, I guess those will go next.... |
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ps, even at the server it is showing improved hash rate....thanks phoenix1969.
I also, what I noticed the with the increased heat the output current has increased...which is what I suspect as a culprit for some miners, or rather a low output is indicative of a problem.
But now with the temp rise, what has happened, the chip with disabled cores is down to just 1 disabled...
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EUREKA!
I just discovered something.
They don't like to be OVERCOOLED either!
funny i was having the same thought after seeing them cooled and no real change, as well as others mentioning that they ran their unit hot on .90, that it might allow chip to seat better in solder or something like that.... what stats u got phoenix1969? its too early to tell because it will take time for my averages to come up, but it looks to be the final tweak, like it may end up 275, 280+, 280+ im optimistic, but definitely see an increase, and within 2 mins... all I did was shut my boxfan off I was all proud of my 32C temps, lol...they like 55 So I removed the high cfm computer fans that I had added for cooling, as well as shut down the a/c, temps on chips went for 40 and 45c to 46c and 49.5 c and it is hashing slightly faster and well as slightly better WU and error rate has improved from 20% to 15%....can't believe cooling it was NOT HELPING.....weird. |
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do you need to run enablecores.bin on .97, not sure? Anyone?
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seems like you box has same 20% HW error rate as my saturn....it is firmware related i believe, then again, i don't know diddly.
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wtf is there work week tuesday,wednesday, thursday. and thats it?  funny, just read an article about how no one in sweden really even knows what bitcoin is or about. Some lady even had her swedish bank acct. frozen due to some btc sale. |
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EUREKA!
I just discovered something.
They don't like to be OVERCOOLED either!
funny i was having the same thought after seeing them cooled and no real change, as well as others mentioning that they ran their unit hot on .90, that it might allow chip to seat better in solder or something like that.... what stats u got phoenix1969? |
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crazyguy, I have paid. thanks. will pm shortly with shipping info.
These ship out today friday october 25?
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