Of course, we are all going to die sometime, and some people have pretty good ideas when their life is coming short, but other people do not have very many ideas about how many years that they might have left.

If you do not have any clear indications that you are going to die in the coming 4 of years, then most people should invest in some bitcoin, and sure it could take a while to set up accounts and all of that... so then once you are in, and then you determine approximately how much of a stake that you want, then it is a matter of how to do it - whether a lump sum, DCA, buying on dips or some combination of that. 

There are advantages and disadvantages to each, and frequently DCA is amongst the best for someone who just wants to manage cashflow, but ongoing investment into BTC does put your timeline 4 years from the date of each of your investments, so sometimes a lump sum would be good, especially if you already have the money and you know how much you want to put in

Another thing is that past performance does not guarantee future results, including getting 10x in 5 years, and maybe you just break even or maybe you just get 6% per year for the next 5 years.

To me, it does not make sense to put too high of expectations ONLY on  the upside potential, but it is good to attempt to be somewhat realistic in terms of how much to allocate into BTC and how to go about it in terms of your own situation including but not limited to cashflow issues.


Hm?  I don't know how people believe that there is "for sure" with anything, especially related to investing and the future.

You may have been misunderstanding the kind of disagreement that I was having with goldkingcoiner, because initially, when he posted his chart with down arrows and he proclaimed that he thought that we might be in 2018 - I thought that perhaps he had just made a mistake or perhaps a joke.


So, initially, I was just seeking clarification including my assertion that it's not too likely that we are in 2018... .  but instead of explaining himself, goldkingcoiner went into combative mode including wiffle waffling all over the place and even changing his position... and even waffling more when the BTC price went against his nonsense.

For sure, I consider myself to have pretty low levels of conviction for a lot of the shorter-term price movement ideas, and frequently I meander in a kind of 50/50 territory with many of my deviations being less than 5% on one side or another - and sure most of the time I am either erroring on the side of bullish or even not really talking too much about my sense that we might be going down (although I am not really holding back anyhow because most of the times I do lean towards UPpity - even if it seems that there are a lot of short term DOWNity pressures).

So frequently, I am criticizing others who are coming out with high levels of certainty, and I have even criticized you on that basis a few times - which surely is one of the risks that can come about when you plot price predictions on charts because they might start to imply higher levels of confidence than what you had even originally intended to communicate.

So, you are very rarely going to find me with short term predictions that go much above 55%, although recently I believe that I have had some higher levels of confidence.. so let's take the example of the BTC price range that we were recently in, largely between about $30k and $42k.  So my own confidence levels about whether the so far bottom of $28,600 was "in" would fluctuate regarding where we were at in that particular price range, and surely, I had a theory that if BTC prices sufficiently bounced to the upside out of that range, then my confidence levels would go up regarding the bottom of $28,600 being "in."

By the way, I hardly give any shits about whether I am correct or not, even though surely I prefer UP rather than DOWN, but in the end, I appreciate that there are powerful forces out there that have the capabilities to manipulate BTC prices towards the DOWNity for many years if they were able to garner such support within their organizations to continue such attacks.. so anyhow, I am not wedded to some stupid ass BTC price predictions about the future having high levels of having to play out, even if they have a lot of convincing underlying explanations for their validity - referring to stock to flow, 4 year fractal and exponential s-curve adoption based on metcalfe principles and networking effects as the three categories of the currently most convincing BTC price prediction frameworks that need to be taken into account when attempting to even fuck around with BTC price predictions.. does not even mean that you need to believe in the models, but you (not referring to any specific you) better fucking take them into account when you are poo pooing them.


Again.. you seem to be assigning way higher levels of confidence than me, and those are the kinds of confidence levels that I will usually criticize the fuck out of, whether to the UPside or the DOWNside, even though I do let a lot of what I perceive to be the overly bullishness towards the UPside slide more frequently than I would for the same overly confident DOWNside assertions (and I believe I have good reasons to do that.. because no matter what, we have the underlying UPside price pressure dynamics, especially the exponential s-curve adoption aspect, whether peeps want to believe or acknowledge or not.



Your confidence numbers seem to be way higher than mine... but maybe it also could be depending upon the question that might be presented..sometimes if we are talking time and how much movement, we are going to get very different confidence levels depending on how far we might be moving from our current position - whether referring to time or to quantity of movement.


Seems like an error to me to be considering the matter like that.  Bitcoin is not a mature asset, and there seem to be a considerably great need to account for exponential s-curve adoption and also consider how networking effects are playing out..which includes considering Lindy effects.. and also includes considering metcalfe principles, too.

Seems to me that if you even try to treat subsequent years in similar ways to earlier years, then you are lacking in some of your appreciating for some of the real world underlying dynamics of bitcoin including that bitcoin is no run of the mill asset class, either.  It involves the addition of a new asset class that is paradigm shifting (meaning that we never ever ever had such an asset class in the past), and bitcoin has inspired all kinds of imitators and snake oil salesmen and a lot of noise and misleading aspects around it, but the fact that bitcoin is NOT broken in spite of ongoing attacks against it (sure frequently subtle), creates a kind of unpredictable aspect in terms of the "gradually and then suddenly" component to it, as well... so in that sense, all years cannot be treated the same, even if you are trying to be objective about it, you are missing the point by trying to apply a mathematical model that is failing/refusing to account for on the ground realities.


Fair enough that hedging sometimes can be helpful...and also making comparisons can be helpful too, if you are able to make reasonable comparisons rather than finding a pattern that looks the same but might still fail to account for some broader underlying principles in terms of how that previous pattern might have gotten there in the first place.  

Sure, sometimes I may well talk a decently big game about patterns and underlying principles, but I hardly ever change my largely blind system of buying on the way down and selling on the way up, including allowing the BTC price to come to me, and also with the passage of time, both my spreads and my increments have gotten much BIGGER - even though this latest correction from $64,895 to $28,600 and the bouncing around within such correction had caused my increments to largely shrink back to their $1k intervals - but I kept my spreads the same (at around $6k) even though I had been  somewhat tempted to shrink those too.. because as you can likely appreciate a spread of $6k in the $30k territories ends up being 2x as BIG (in terms of percentage) as it is in the $60k territories, but I just allowed the whole spread matter to stay in place as a kind of convenient excuse that just allows my longer term goals to become more and more realized in terms of permitting (or causing) the spreads to get BIGGER and MOAR BIGGER with the passage of time, including BTC price increases and even accounting for percentages, too - even though many of us should be able to appreciate that even if we have perceptions of bitcoin having a lot of ongoing and inevitable volatility for many years to come, such volatility is still likely (and perceptibly) reducing with the passage of time, too..even though BIGGER players are coming into bitcoin and attempting to play with BIGGER numbers and hopefully getting reckt MOAR worser, too.  hopefully.


I understand that Willy Woo is not much of a fan of Stock to flow, but surely Willy does have a lot of great analysis, too.


Sure, there were a lot of seemingly premature proclamations that we had entered into a bear market, and part of the rationale was having a greater than 30% price correction, and in early 2021, there was a shit-ton of bullshit assertions that greater than 30% price corrections were no longer possible or some nonsense like that, and we even got quite a bit of that baloney in this thread, and so as soon as BTC corrected more than 30% many folks started either predicting doom and gloom or accepting the various doom and gloom theories including quite a few smart peeps with decent analysis, too.

So you can imagine that if 30% was the threshold of entering into a bear market, then more than 50% correction put nails in the coffin to "unambiguously" confirm the three year or whatever bear market bullshit propaganda.. and of course, we may well know that there were a decent number of folks who wanted to perpetuate such nonsense in order to get some shakening of the coins from folks who otherwise were NOT too likely to be easily shaken from their coins... but surely a lot of folks did get shaken.. those gullible fucks.

By the way, I am not even asserting that we might not be in a bear market, even though to me the odds seem against it.  I am not even saying that the top of $64,895 might not be in, even though to me the odds seem against it.  We cannot really know for sure if we are in a bear market or a bull market until after the fact, and surely I cannot even see that the stock to flow or the 4 year fractal models have been broken, so you are not going to so easily cause me to concede that we are enterring into a bear market, even though there was some time that the odds were not looking good for staying in a bull market - especially when we were getting into the low $30ks and staying there a long time (including the temporary dips into the upper $20ks).. but yeah, it is not over until it is over.. even though I probably had less than 50% confidence that the $28,600 bottom would hold when we were in the sub $31ks, but when the BTC price got back into the  mid $30ks my confidence went back into the 51%-52% territories, and then when it went into the upper $30ks my confidence bounced around 55% and when BTC prices got over $46k, my confidence went from about 56.5% to about 62.5%, and currently my confidence is around 63.5%.. hahahahahaha.. which is pretty fucking high for me, so I might have to take a chill pill and bring down my expectations a wee bit more.

Actually, it seems better for me to attempt to gravitate back towards 50/50 ideas in regards to short term BTC price directions - but again, surely my level of confidence is going to depend on the questions that are being asked in terms of if the $28,600 bottom is in or what are the chances that we break above $53k or what might be the other resistance points, because in some sense, if the BTC rice is allowed to get avove a certain threshold, such as $53k or something else, then it is going to be a whole hell of a lot more difficult for beartwats to actually keep the BTC price from making new ATHs.. and in that regard, you are probably of a similar mind as me in terms of the difficulties to stop the momentum once the BTC price gets above certain price points, but even then we might get into upper 60% territories in my mind, but you might start assigning way higher odds such as in the upper 90%s which I would consider to be gambling (or pie in the sky) rather than being realistic (with yourself).


Cannot really argue with you about these points, even though there are institutions that are all over the place on these questions, too.  Some institutions are more enlightened and aggressive regarding their BTC accumulation/holdings (and probably Michael Saylor has helped some of them to learn and see a model), and there are still plenty of institutions that are quite a bit more distracted, including getting distracted into shitcoins and even giving more weight to regulatory concerns than those concerns likely deserve - even though time will tell on those matters, too.. and some will be somewhat in bitcoin (including even a measly 1%) and some will be still sitting on the sidelines waiting for better investment vehicles or waiting for even wider practices of investing into bitcoin (rather than considering Saylor to be a looney.... which even some of us longer term bitcoiners consider Saylor to be a bit looney, too.. hahahahahaha.. even though Saylor is not likely wrong, he is just way more leveraged than the vast majority of normies should be... but of course, neither he nor his company is a normie in terms of cashflows and abilities to generate and employ debt.. ).

Oh my..... You may well end up getting your posts removed from this thread OgNasty..  not a common feat to accomplish to have posts removed from the WO thread, but shilling products historically have been nipped in the bud.

Of course, you are not merely shilling your product, you are attempting to pump your reputation too.. which also seems a strange thing to be attempting to do in these here parts.  

I am not sure if anyone reported you yet, but it seems to be getting beyond tolerance levels of how we tend to roll here, if you had not noticed.. and you are coming off like a newbie with such nonsense pump talkenings to ruin dee moo (set a bad example, too).

Maybe you cannot help yourself?


Well that question was already answered.  In essence, the data that you had shown did not look spooky nor similar (based on other underlying concepts in bitcoinlandia.. including the various currently credible BTC prediction models that should have allowed you to reasonably conclude that we not be in 2018 at this here time), but you argued about it anyhow...hahahaha

That does not sound like a very self-oriented plan.  Who wants to fail/refuse to retire?

Part of getting to fuck you status seems to be a kind of retirement.. but maybe you are thinking about retirement differently?  I understand that you can still have projects and still be in a kind of fuck you status.

Are you, Elwar, going to screw things up in such a way that we (royal of course) have to completely reconsider what is "fuck you" status?

 


You are coming around, richy...   




Well good thing that you had your "insightful" DOWNity theory hedged.

 

Thanks for the context, and I purposefully provided high potential investment levels to try to help to imagine a way that someone who might be somewhat down and out might still garner up a good amount of money and how that could ended up being life changing money had it just sat for a long time.  Sure, it would be harder to arrive at higher levels of returns with $10 to $50 (the reality) as compared with $500 to $2,500 - even though my numbers were a bit of a conceptual stretch...

Oh for sure, some one who bought a mere 10 BTC or 50BTC in 2011 for $1 per bitcoin would be doing pretty damned well at these BTC prices, too.. and sure a forced HODL situation may well be the ONLY way that someone who is already struggling with having a home might be able to NOT have weak hands a variety of times in the past 10 years.. 10 years is a long time for someone with potentially weak hands to show their will power to HODL through it.



I surely understand that part, and that is part of the reason that I mention that some people would ONLY have a possibility of becoming rich from bitcoin by a kind of forced HODL.. such as losing their keys and then reuniting many years later.


Actually, you are correct we witness those kinds of bitter no coiners all the time who cannot get over their having had sold too much too  soon and frequently selling their whole fucking stash believing that they are a genius.. but then seeing how lacking in genius status that time ends up showing them to have been.



Gosh.. I do know that people can have their various kinds of specialties, but frequently there might be needs to have knowledge in a variety of areas, and gosh if some guys might have gotten distracted by some of the technological aspects. .. and may even be geniuses, but then get caught up in shitcoins because they have troubles really appreciating the sound money angle of bitcoin... not even saying that bitcoin maximalists will even always know or understand what they are investing in with any kind of in depth insight pertaining to many angles in which bitcoin can be appreciated.


I don't even know if any of the off-puttedness needs to be addressed.  The good, bad and the ugly can come to bitcoin, and no one can stop them. I have no desires to change the world, but there are ways to fit in and to attempt to take advantage of what is there.  I don't give too many shits about some of the scaredy cats who failed/refused to invest in bitcoin and even maybe they are still hostile to bitcoin because there are a bunch of meanies on the interwebs.  The longer they wait, the more they are going to fail/refuse to help themselves, and bitcoin no doesn't care if they have to buy it at $1.65 million rather than getting at dirt cheap bargain prices of $47,500 while supplies last at these prices.




As bitcoin adoption get's larger it encompasses every kind of person in the world, whether we like them or not.
Sure bitcoin seems to have started from a kind of niche group of cyber nerds and druggies or whoever found some early use for it, and whether they have accumulated coins or not, no one should give any shits.. they have to protect themselves and their stash if they have any... sure some people got removed from their coins through nefarious means, too..., It's not easy to be your own bank and surely there are loopholes and weaknesses in some of the interface and even wallet mechanisms.  Sometimes HODLers might not even want to discuss how they hold their coins, which is fair too.

There have always been criticisms of various kinds of user interfaces challenges, too... and having more options in how to hold your coins has not always led to easy to use - and many people just say fuck it and hold their coins on Robinhood or something like that - and many of us realize those are holding vouchers rather than actual coins, but some people feel better about getting BTC price exposure through various 3rd party vehicles rather than trying to learn some of the more complicated technicalities in the various ways to hold your coins or to use your bitcoin or even to purposefully hide your wealth, if that's what floats your boat..

And, we also know that some people have gotten tricked in the past in terms of believing that there was a decent amount of privacy in their bitcoin holdings, but then there can be some weak links in terms of how public might be their holdings in terms of the chain of custody and then if there are some disadvantages that might come if trying to obscure the chain of custody.

There are a lot of people who are freely attempting to educate others or to learn, and even participation in forum like this can be helpful to both share knowledge and attempt to learn from others, but sometimes there can be bad information, too... So of course personal responsibility remains a thing for any of us who get involved in bitcoin and some people get scared by all of this, or maybe they feel that they do not have time because they are working 3 dead end jobs and they do not have time to learn.. and those are personal choices too.. even though some people have started out with very shitty situations and have difficulties getting out of their shitty situation, and perhaps bitcoin can help or perhaps bitcoin can cause them to have even worse situations because they use it as a way to gamble rather than figuring out a way to use bitcoin as a reasonable and prudent investment or otherwise learn about various ways to potentially personally and directly profit from it without over doing the matter and contributing to causing a good thing to play out in bad ways in their personal life and the way that they ended up approaching the whole bitcoin matter (and hopefully not getting too distracted by shitcoins, but hey peeps are going to do what they are going to do.


You can think about it like that if you want... and many many many times, I might be arguing with someone or telling them to fuck off or even telling them that they have a lot of dumb ideas, so they might get pissed off at me, even while at the same time, I may well be sharing information to suggest the various conceptual ideas that they might need to consider in order for them to be in a better position to help themselves.

I don't even claim to know everything or to necessarily be right, but I do believe that it can be very helpful for each person to figure out particulars of their own situation such as their cashflow, their other investments, their view of bitcoin as compared with their other investments, their timeline, their risk tolerance and their skills, time and abilities to learn, plan, strategize and tweak along the way including figuring out the extent to which to trade or use financial tools (which are likely more advanced and unnecessary techniques).  It can be very very difficult and challenging just to figure out the answers to the various above categories of questions. and then to come up with some practical and personalized plans, and no one is going to give any shits about them so peeps need to attempt to figure out ways to help themselves and tailor their strategies and don't get emotional about other peeps on the interwebs, even if we might be calling them dumb the whole time .. and some people learn how to learn and learn how to not get emotional and to still be able to sort the wheat from the chaff in terms of both information available and how to share information in ways that help them to learn better.

I write novels of posts all the time, and sure sometimes I want to help others, but frequently I am just helping myself to attempt to better think through ideas.. and sure there might be some attempts to give back and sure there is some luxury in terms of NOT having to make money off of the shared information.  A lot of people work for free or somewhat free in bitcoin.. including that there might be ways that they generate some income  from services, but there may well be a lot of free stuff that is provided and all over the place for guys/gals/institutions that are willing to look for it and sort through some of the better stuff out there.



A lot of things might look like a cult when first learning about them and looking from the outside, and sure there are folks who have been involved in bitcoin for nearly 10 years and they still believe that it is a cult and whatever, they can believe whatever they like.. or get distracted by misleading framings...

I frequently have proclaimed that there is always quite a bit of truth in any myth, in any propaganda framing, and even in conspiracy theories.. .and so surely critical thinking skills can come in quite handy in terms of NOT getting too wrapped up by misleading framings, even if there is likely a decent amount of truth in the misleading framings..

Many of the misleading framings (talking points) are recirculated in bitcoin through the years, and sometimes there may well be beliefs that some battles have been resolved, but they come back again and again.  Sometimes there might be some cult feelings in regard to bitcoin because some dumbass talking point might get raised and some long time bitcoiner might seem to go a bit batshit crazy in reaction to the raised  (or re-raised) talking point, and the newbie may consider that the talking point had a lot of good points, but the long time bitcoiner just cursorily dismissed them, therefore, it feels like a cult.. blah blah blah... the bitcoiner did not back up his points, and he used "fuck" a lot in his response.



I don't feel any such an obligation.  Sure, sometimes there might be some usefulness in explaining some things or pointing out resources, and one reason that bitcoin does not have a marketing team is because it does not need it.  There are quite a few people willing to market for free and even if they don't market, bitcoin will market itself with its sound money y principles and value is going to gravitate into it, whether it is marketed or not and whether people recognize the value of it or not... so each person is responsible to figure out his/her own position and how to strategize their accumulation of BTC to get a stake, how much of a stake they believe they need/want (if any.. sure they can make the dumbass mistake of allocating none if they want) and how to manage their stake (perhaps changing) over time in order to NOT get too much shaken out of their desired stake too soon.


For sure, I share information.. but I am ONLY going to go so far in terms of helping out people who might believe that they do not want to be helped.. people also need to engage in some efforts to attempt to help themselves, and sure if the little old lady is crossing the road I may well help her.. but I am not going to necessarily suggest that she goes on the other side of the road if she believes it is better on her side of the road (even if I might believe otherwise), and sure I might spend a little time to educate her, but I only have so much time, too, and she may well be better off talking to someone she knows rather than a passing by stranger, such as me.


Sometimes we are not in a position to learn, and surely there are ONLY so many hours in the day.

Maybe it would be a good idea to learn coding for someone who is younger, but it might not be a good use of time for someone who is older, even if it still could be helpful to that older person but it might not be a good use of time to learn coding.  discretionary of course.  Some young people have no interest in learning anything that seems like it might be work, so they like to learn through osmosis, but still does not mean that they might not profit a lot from taking some classes on a certain topic.  Sometimes you do not know what you do not know, but sometimes it is not useful to learn certain things depending on where you might be in life.

Of course, I frequently will tell some no coiners or pre-coiners to figure out their various personal circumstances first, and as a newbie it is good to invest 1% to 10% of your investment portfolio into bitcoin, but of course, people can do whatever they like, even though I suggest 1% to 10% as a kind of beginner guide but also realizing that one is going to learn and even understand bitcoin way more once they go through an active process of setting up some accounts and establishing a basic beginner stake and then after doing all that the person would be in a better position to learn about if to increase the stake or to keep it the same or even to understand themselves (financial and psychological circumstance) much better through such active interactions.



No problem.. I am too talkative (some people refer to it as "wordy" which sometimes I deny), sometimes.


There is only so much time in the day, and each of us take different journeys.. and I am not even suggesting that there is no value in various shitcoin projects.. but I can make choices for myself for how to spend my time.  Sometimes I will see some kind of shitcoin project, and then I wonder where is the bitcoin connection?  Why do they need to print a coin, and I suppose another thing is that if my investment in bitcoin (and other investments that I have that are not in shitcoins) are doing quite well, then why do I need to add another level of complexity.. but sure, if there are some projects that you are able to identify as personally interesting, then sure it might not be any skin off your back to invest time and money into such project and maybe even flip it into more satoshis.. if it does not cause you to feel guilty.. sometimes I see stuff that I consider to be potentially profitable, but i find it morally questionable to get involved in such projects... so sometimes I don't want to compromise myself or even bring such ambiguity to my own thinking about my own behaviors...

I recall that I had various points in my life in which I was pursuing activities, and not even wanting to get financial compensation - or thinking about making BIG bucks by jumping through x, y and z hoops.. and so sometimes I find it to be quite amazing that I got involved in bitcoin in the way that I have.. and maybe getting richie is kind of a side bonus and not a central focus, even though when I put money into bitcoin  I was hoping at least to try to have an over all return that averaged around 6% per year which would put my bitcoin investment on par with my traditional investments into stocks (and other stuff that I had over the years).. but I was also o.k. to take the gamble to potentially lose the money that I invested into bitcoin, but it seemed to be a place that had decent upside potential that may or may not pay off, but was still interesting to study along the way..


hahahaha we are all balls of mess when getting into it, and sometimes people can go through very similar experiences, but they talk about it (or describe it) in much different ways, so it could cause some curiosity regarding why they may have framed their history, their present or their future prospects in such a way.

Sometimes we might conclude:  "something is wrong with this picture" and then other times, there could be an explanation as English being a second language... and sometimes, it is just that the person might have some experiences that cause difficulties/challenges to see the subject matter in any other way.

There are some members on this forum (or in this thread) that we have been having variations of the same argument for years, and sometimes it could just be time to just give up, but other times, the variations of the same argument come through in differing ways because bitcoin is not in the same position as it was the last time we treated the topic (whether a year ago or some other timeframe) and each of us also might not even be the same persons (some say bots), even if we keep going back to similar spins of our earlier arguments.

Part of the conversation might include:
"Didn't we already cover this two years ago?"

Even though I did send you a merit, I do believe that it is a bit unfair to pick 10 years as an investment timeline, and probably something like 8 years would be a more fair representation..


Posts take time, too....

hahahahaha


How's your short going PMcoiner?

 


Yeah, but dee botsie-bot already does noews enuff... to establish dat u b in dee whiney curmudgeon categories rather than in dee active ongoing BTC investor one... so in udder wurds, u be half as richie as you could have been if uie-pooie had not been so whimpy and whiney.

 

 

Is it funny, or ironic, that a scary tax matter is the ONLY thing that you are responding to, and you just conveniently ignore the points about clarifying the difference between the whiney curmudgeon strategy as compared with the ongoing active investor strategy who ended up with more than 2x as many bitcoin as the curmudgeon (42 BTC for the ongoing active investor versus 20 BTC for the whiney curmudgeon).  

You don't consider that having twice as many BTC makes any kind of meaningful difference, and instead you want to focus on taxes because you had handicapped ur own lil selfie through too much scaredy-cattedness in the way that you failed/refused to reasonably invest in BTC in the long term.

You were a scaredy cat in 2014/2015 who failed refused to take a reasonably aggressive BTC strategy by praying for a mere hail Mary effect - and you continue to fail/refuse to take a reasonably aggressive BTC strategy through the subsequent 6 years and just wait and hope that BTC saves your stingy little ass when you could have engaged in a wee bit more aggressive bitcoin investment strategy in which you could have helped to save ur lil selfie from your stingy self.

You conveniently forgot to say no homo, you fuck.

I knew that you really liked me, on the inside.   


Of course, if you are going to propose differing models then you should be attempting to frame decent aspects of your differing models into reality rather than just pie in the sky bullshit.

For example, if we might be attempting to hone in on both getting to fuck you status or even figuring out what might be minimum entry level into fuck you status, I hardly find your descriptions of what it is like to be 10x, 100x or even 1,000x higher than the entry-level to be very concrete or relatable, even if there are some bguys/gals here who have likely reached those various higher levels and have also developed their own various peculiarities in terms of needing and wanting to have way more than entry level fuck you status.


Yes.. we know that bitcoin tends to be quite volatile, so when you are whining about the supposed inevitability of bitcoin going down further that seems a bit much, and maybe it is worse when the BTC price has already come down quite a bit and the MOAR DOWNity is not as inevitable as you seem to be wanting to make it out to be... while you are proclaiming that you are right all the time.. which likely does talk some people into either selling coins or failing to buy as many coins as they would have otherwise... but sure, I don't have a lot of sympathy for peeps who go along with guys on the interwebs even if they are persuasive as you sometimes can be with your frequent fear-mongering whining baloney.


Good for you.

Stocking up and really preparing (or maybe even over-preparing) for UPpity seems to NOT have been your style, either.

You must really like my earlier example of the whining curmudgeon who ONLY bought 20 BTC and the ongoing BTC investor who ended up getting 42BTC by merely DCAing for the 6 years that the curmudgeon whiner sat on his hands.  Remind you of anyone?

by the way, the whining cumudgeon who ONLY has 20BTC might feel quite reserved to sell any BTC, but they active BTC investor has 22 more BTC, and merely one of those 22BTC covers all of his costs of investing into BTC, so selling 1 or 2 BTC may well not cause such active investor to stop from enjoying the extra wealth that he has accumulated by actively investing, even if he may well have to pay taxes on almost everything that he cashes out because his tax basis is only around $867 when the price is $46,500-ish - or whatever price that s/he decides to shave off a wee bit of profits.. so having an extra 22 BTC ($1 million in value at current spot price) is not necessarily going to cause a whole hell of a lot of lost sleep if taxes might end up being in a 15% to 20% arena in cashing out $50k or $100k (in the event that s/he does decide to do it).. so if s/he ends up cashing out $100k, there is still $900k in extra profits (over the amount of profits of the curmudgeon) even if s/he was ONLY able to take away $80k and had to pay nearly $20k in taxes... .so maybe the curmudgeon has forced his lil selfie into being a curmudgeon because s/he failed/refused to invest more (or over invest) in order that the active BTC investor does not need to worry about taxes or whatever... s/he is still way better off, especially as compared with the whiner / curmudgeon.



I doubt that we really need to get into the selling at a loss issues.

There seems to be more questions about how much and how to invest and then whether it takes $2million or $10million or some higher amount to reach entry level fuck you status.. so there should be some kinds of reasonable presumptions that it could take several years - at least a whole cycle or two to reach those fuck you levels, unless you are getting into bitcoin in shorter time horizons (shorter than 4 years) and I doubt that even you are suggesting that kind of an approach to BTC investing... you seem to be more lacking in ongoing investing in fantasizing about some early lump sum bringing you to fuck you status after more cycles (or some pie in the sky pumpening hope of 1,000x price appreciation)..so seem that getting into loss issues is not even anything in the ballpark of our previous discussions in regards to getting to fuck you status and then managing fuck you status, once there (in order NOT to fall out of such status, hopefully).


Good for you.  We (royal of course) already figured out that you are a kind of guy who way the fuck under invested, so you have put ur own lil selfie into your own false dilemma that does not affect those of us who had been more assertive (or aggressive) in our approach to BTC.

Relative assertiveness (aggressiveness) has paid off stupendously for many of us even if past performance does not guarantee future performance, BTC does seem to continue to be a kind of investment that will continue to reward those who are a bit more assertive and aggressive in regards to establishing their BTC holdings - and I am not even suggesting to use leverage or even to cause cashflow issues in terms of preferable practices of maintaining a relatively strong and continuous BTC DCAing.. and sure entry level for that might be $25 to $100 per week, but even more aggressive strategies might increase the amounts and not necessarily put BIG dents on the personal budget (ongoing cashflow concerns).


Good for Uie-poo-ie in your hypothetical contemplation of the matter.  I think that you get so focused on how to manage your supposed high level of wealth and seem to downplay the getting there part.  So surely getting there is almost all of the battle that a vast majority of normie folks face, and once the normie folks get to fuck you status or even multiples above fuck you status then they can do whatever the fuck they want to maintain such status.  Sure there are potential issues about prematurely pulling the fuck you lever and not having enough actual value to account for all the expenses, including potential taxes, and to the extent that you are focusing ur lil selfie on my problems in having to pay taxes, you seem to be continue to want to get caught up in some kind of concern that likely does not even seem to be a concern... haven't I mentioned a lot of times, that i have enough to live fairly well and in my current lifestyle without even cashing out any BTC, so part of my ongoing dilemma has been to figure out more ways to spend more money...so I really don't mind having that thing that you perceive as a problem that I do not perceive as a problem including concerns that I am going to run out of money or have to get booted out of fuck you status.. so that is not any kind of problem for this kitty cat...even if you may well be preoccupied by a selling on the way up strategy.


Sure... could be... right now federal tax rates are about 15% for long term capital gains in the US of A... and then depending on which state a person is in, there may well be additional capital gains taxes for the same transactions.

For sure diminishes the chances that any china attack is actually taking place or that they would be able to feasibly pull it off if they had been attempting to employ some kind of set up... Just seems less feasible to have any kind of chance of success if some kind of spiraling down hashrate were not also part of the formula.. and if hashrate is being purposefully kept off line for many months, there surely would be a lot of lost revenue from that angle, too.... so surely, the likelihood of any kind of meaningful china attack seems less and less plausible with these facts..

....and gosh, think about the whole matter in terms of what appears to be china really fucking their own people over again (this time from the mining angle) but even from the angle of having so much potential bitcoin power within their jurisdiction..that they seem to have fucked away their lil selfies, too..   I am not even saying that Chinese government people are dumb.. they are likely quite smart, but perhaps even too smart for their own good... I am sure that they have a few more plays up their sleeve.. but still?  level of likely success with some of their future plays in comparison to their various past plays?   


I am glad that I have reduced the percentage of my exposure on exchanges over the years.. I mean the percentage of my overall BTC value (that includes fiat value that is already largely dedicated to BTC in some kind of way) that is off exchanges has gone quite a bit up as compared/contrasted to the percentage of my overall value that is on exchanges.. but still it does sometimes creep towards adding up to a lot of value kept on exchanges, especially if considering that there might be various buy/sell orders that are already preset that go quite a bit of distance in each direction.. while at the same time.. if the BTC price goes from around $4k during the March 2020 dippening to an all time high of nearly $65k (within about 13 months), the quantity of moving around BTC (and dollars) might not have changed very much in the whole scheme of things, but the value of the account(s) would have gone up tremendously based on the mere fact that the BTC prices had gone up around 16x within a bit over a year's time. 

Of course the May 2021 price drop of BTC by more than 50% and even our current BTC prices floating in a kind of 30% below the top price arena (talking about $46k folks) does not really bring any kind of meaningful resolution of the issues regarding how much value ends up appreciating on exchanges, including the fact that there can be issues of moving money on and off of exchanges on a regular basis (whether bitcoin or cash), including the fact the money on the exchanges is not completely idle if it is taking up space in terms of various preset buy/sell orders.. and perhaps giving some flexibility beyond the preset orders.. so sometimes, I might have around 10% to 40% extra value on exchanges besides what is already folded into buy/sell orders, but that extra quantity on exchanges provides me with some flexibility too in terms of some spontaneously playing around with buy/sell order sizes or even if I might want to play with some arbitrage between exchanges or even to cause one exchange to become overly allocated in either BTC or in cash because of my own real world purposes (imagined or real.. hahahaha)... 

At some time soon, I will likely disclose some of my shenanigans of my imaged or real activities in the fucking around with moving value around, and so not wanting to sound desperate, but some UPpity in price would likely cause some of the putting to rest some of the real world dynamics and greater comforts for me to disclosed what had happened and what is in the process of "happening."  You got no real or meaningful complaints from me, even though sometimes we can imagine way better or favorable circumstances to attempt to achieve various kinds of moving around of value... so for example, if a guy were to want to buy a RR or some other utility thingie of value/pleasure.. then seems to me that such BTC HODLer kind of a guy gets way pleasure and psychological comfort in term being able to play around with such value as the BTC price be going UPpity rather than being in a correction zone.. but why we going to complain about ONLY being 3x UPpity rather than 6.5x UPpity if any of us were to have had our hands forced to cash out some of our lil fiends within the lower UPpity zone rather than the higher UPpity zone (not saying any of that happened to me, this time around.. but something like that did happen to me in November/December 2018.. and sure, I could whine and blame king daddy for that.. but it's all on me and my gambling in terms of thinking that I could cash out some of the needed cash at any time that I needed in late 2018 or early 2019, and when such lil fiend went from $6k to $4k in almost a flash (in mid November 2018), there was a realization that cashflows were not going to be met if just allowing the whims of the market matter to play out.. so mistakes were made in some of that attempt to manage cashflows and to allow a wee bit too much of the cashflow to ride in bitcoinlandia rather than cashola.. and cannot really have a lot of regrets even knowing that the cards could have been played a wee bit MOAR better -- and surely some luck (might be labelled as less than good luck) involved with that whole gambling process, too)..

Some guys just seem to love maintaining a J.O.B.

I think that they just like picking up normie girls there during the times that it is more difficult to play the baller angle.   

Regarding $50k, I am kind of thinking that there might be a bit of a spurt up to $53k, if it comes at some point, but I am also thinking that $50k does not matter so much because we have already gravitated at $46k long enough to know that the bottom is quite likely to be "in" so the poll has become irrelevant in regards to feasibly reaching the downside... so whether $50k takes a few hours or a month to play out, it seems that we are at least going to get that far, and then perhaps there might be a bit of resistance between $53k and $58k and getting above $58k will likely cause difficulties in keeping the bad boy down.. and gosh it may well already be too late to keep the bad boy down since we crossed over $46k.. but I hate to be too presumptuous, too.


Ok fair enough that some of us are going to have differing ideas about bare minimum entry level fuck you status, but I doubt that it is very useful to consider the matter in terms of what material level items that you have even though that is surely part of the formula to be able to have basic necessities such as food, housing and basic securities.

Yet the crux of entry level fuck you status is about being able to have control over how you spend your time, so sure some peeps do feel that they have control in maintaining a JOB.. but there is a kind of presumption that fuck you status allows you to either not have any kind of job at all or to freely choose which days to work or not and what contracts to enter into and when to do them and to control the terms of the contracts that are entered into.. so sure there is a kind of presumption that the level of wealth is sufficient to at least to cause food, housing and basic securities to be a kind of given, and material wealth beyond the basics would be at the discretion of the person but not necessarily general ideas of reaching entry level fuck you status.


Yes.. spot price of BTC at $46k does provide about $1.6 million in principle which could presume a formula of getting around 3% per year price appreciation of $50k per year income.. .. personally I believe it is risky to use spot price, and peeps in bitcoin have historically fucked up pretty damned BIGGEDly when using spot price to figure their wealth, but hey do what you want.


Of course, it is good to consider and even deploy various protection attempts for even very extreme scenarios, but I really doubt that it is prudent to base any kind of high percentage of your life preparations on outrageous and extreme scenarios and let the perfect be the enemy of the good. In other words, there are a whole hell of a lot of ways to achieve entry level fuck you status short of having all angles 100% covered.. and many of us already live in ways that we are NOT prepared for all angles but we can still live very happy lives and continue to prepare even if we were to be at some kind of fuck you status that might not be perfect in every way.

For example, if a guy has had an income level of around $50k, and he believes that $50k is going to get him by for many years into the future, he may well get to the point that his wealth is at a level that can generate $100k per year, but he is ONLY planning to draw $50k, so the other $50k keeps folding in and compounding so that he always feels that he has a kind of 2x cushion.. of course, the numbers can vary in terms of how much is perceived to be needed, how much of a cushion might be needed and even to tweak and make adjustments along the way in terms of possible consumption levels and/or ways to generate income that might not be anything outside of quite voluntary - even if you may say that you love greeting people at Walmart for 20 hours per week; it is quite enjoyable... hahahaaha


Soon^tm

Funny thing about some people who might have a vision, they frequently will have lack of stick-with-it-ness or even lose their conviction.  Another problem if a person is materially lacking in basic comforts such as a home, regular meals and maybe even has some bad habits, then those kinds of peeps will have tendencies to cave or cash in their profits...

so even if that guy was able to gardner together $500 to $2.5k to buy a BIG BTC investment, his getting 5x to 10x profits which would have been $2,500 to $25k - depending on how much he invested, would still have amounted to chicken feed in the event that he would have been able to HODL all the way through to present times - which surely is almost an impossible hope for a guy in such a position, unless he were to actually physically lose access to his coins and then regain such access at a later date.

If the second scenario were to have occurred, he likely would not have deserved such rags to riches, but many of us do surely love a rags to riches story, even if he would have blew the fuck out of $30 million to $120 million too, but gosh would have taken him a lot longer to blow such levels of accidental (and likely undeserved - repeating myself) wealth.



I agree with both of those points (or are there three points?) that investing in something needs money, and there can sometimes be annoyance and distractions by the lifestyle choices of the peeps who might have some of the right ideas but are not really setting good role model examples in other ways.

You know that does remind me of some similar dynamics here on the interwebs, sometimes.  Sometimes some of us BTC maximalists can be annoying as fuck in terms of turning off newbies who have differring views about either how to get into bitcoin or to have creative approaches to complementing their bitcoin investment with shitcoins.  And, sure sometimes they might not be wrong with their overall approach, but vigorous debates on the interwebs (not know each other personally) can surely create some turnoffs and even some people may end up taking actions of either NOT buying bitcoin or betting against bitcoin because they get into some interpersonal battles - and jeez I heard Peter Schiff interviewing with Pompliano yesterday or so, and that little twat Schiff was making some decent points about diversification, but he did seem to be somewhat distracted by some pride ideas, including that he did not want to pump the bags of the bag holders such as Pomp and others... I do agree that there are several spots in that interview that Pomp had lost a lot of humbleness (which was kind of childish and not really a good look), but still people (BTC HODLers) can sometimes get a bit arrogant and have desires to rub it in a wee bit more than they probably should - even if it might well feel good at the time to enforce the "I told you so" idea with some actual performance metrics.

Sure I understand that you druggie buddies (roommates) were personal turn offs for somewhat other reasons, but still we can sometimes get distracted by personalities and lifestyles rather than appreciating some of the underlying facts (and broader underlying forces) for what they are.

Regarding money.. I mean holy shit... Sometimes when I was in College, I was scared as fuck to be investing very aggressively in anything, and I recall cashing in some of my investments (what a fucking dumb fuck I have been in my life to consider that giving some investments 8 years or more to ride caused them to be eligible for cashing out for expenses rather than folding them into other investments.. what a dumb fuck I have been sometimes, too), so I can appreciate difficulties in investing even modest amounts of something like $25 to $100 per week - when there can be some extended periods of time of decently tight cashflows.

I also had considered that investing in my education was important (which was true), and I had some hostilities in terms of engaging in some kinds of work, merely to improve my cashflow because sometimes I took voluntary positions (and not receiving any cash) to improve my resume and to get connections and experiences in higher status brain work categories rather than potentially pigeonholing my lil selfie into manual labor type experiences... but in the end meant. pretty damned low levels of cashflow from time to time and difficulties to invest into anything besides making sure all the monthly (or whatever) bills are met.



For sure, can be interesting to have some exposure and rub elbows in certain aspects of the bitcoin scene... and yeah, the BTC community can be a bit seemingly small in some areas, even big cities or countries have some tight circles of those who are "in the know" about certain parts.


Yeah.. one thing is having exposure to people interested in a variety of broader interests, but another thing is that minds and thinking can become very befuddled and muddled when involved in a variety of shitcoins and perhaps not even recognizing and/appreciating bitcoin's foundational investment theses.

I have some friends/relatives who are quite distracted in a variety of shitcoins and shit (crypto) projects, and frequently I find it difficult to relate, and I just have to stop the conversation because I cannot take it for very long.  Sure, I will play around with it for a while in real life, but it becomes quite annoying to be talking past other people in real life.. and frustrating on both sides, I can tell because even those other people seem quite disinclined to continue to pursue the topic.. because I don't give a whole hell of a lot of ground in my position either.. but I get frustrated by repeating and going back to basics and we are not communicating.. it's not sinking in from either direction.. and sometimes I wonder if any progress at all had been made to talk about these topics with peeps in real life.  

By the way, if I would be more open minded (and I do consider myself to be somewhat open minded to explore various angles), probably my own thinking would have become more muddled.. for example, getting involved in doge coin, BCH/BSV, ethereum or various shit projects, could be very time consuming and even occupy a whole hell of a lot of brain space, those kinds of explorations would actually cause me to lose focus on some of the important aspects of bitcoin and perhaps even start to believe that there is some value in the various technically innovative ways to scam others (or even to scam oneself with pump and dump smoke and mirrors nonsense).


Yes.. much more clear, now, about what you meant, and sure, I was not necessarily fishing for a lot of your various sordid details, so it surely is up to you regarding how much to share or how to present the matters, but sometimes there surely can be confusion when summaries are made that do not provide some levels of context.  We all have that issue in terms of the more details that we give, the more we are inviting our lil selfies to be criticized for what we did and also for presenting some points in ways that could be read in more than one way.


Fair enough... Lot's of virus on the minds of people, so really difficult to avoid the topic, and I am still of the position that there is information that goes in so many directions that it is enough to piss off people no matter what their stance - and sometimes there might be some questions regarding whether the division is sown or even allowed to fester in ways that are "on purpose" based on some other things going on that a lot of us can see the money printing issues. so having battles on all kinds of levels and from all kinds of angles does not really necessarily stop the ship from going down (or struggling stupendously) while bitcoin chugs along

.....and sure, there have been a lot of direct and indirect attacks on bitcoin too.... but we also have people in various positions of power, so not everyone is really clearly on one side or another.. which in the end, seems that more and more people find out about bitcoin, even when the news is bad and the attacks against it are seemingly great, so in that regard, sometimes the bitcoin price ends up soaring during seemingly bad news, such as making bitcoin illegal in the USA which also makes little sense, when you think about it... are they really going to go there.. of course, they can do what they want, but there is going to be backlashes, even if some dumbass draconian (impossible to follow) laws related to bitcoin end up passing.

Whoazza..

could be.

Hopefully, you don't jinx it again Philip - like you did to $70k.... (you fuck)


1st.. Many times it is better to attempt to get along (especially with neighbors) rather than battling.. but whatever, you do you.

2nd... I suppose that maybe my earlier conjectures may have been wrongedly.  Based on your various earlier disclosures, I had considered that maybe you had around 500 to 900 BTC, so your various recent sales would have had decent chances of bringing your stash below 500 BTC.. but what do I know?.  Of course, you do not need to disclose anything, but you are the one who already made all kinds of disclosures based on your own will - to the extent that you have any that goes beyond getting emotional about things.. and blah blah blah.  ahahahahaha

Anyhow, 400 to 500 BTC would put your BTC stash at $18 million to $23 million, and sure of course, you seem to have other assets too, including property, but if you are suggesting that you are in the $100 million plus club then if that wealth were only in BTC then it would be in the 2,200 BTC ballpark, but of course, if you have wealth in other property/assets, then surely 1,500 or so BTC could still allow you to fall into a $100 million plus networth club.... not that it matters too much, but some things just do not seem to add up, especially given some of you historical petty nonsense.. but whatever, you do you... which you do seem to like to bolster and exaggerate for effect, and some guys do seem to appreciate your some what predictably unpredictable emotional outbursts.


hahahahahaha

no homo... and I am not even sure if I am trying to help you out here.. but surely could be helpful to some other members to see some of your all over the place outbursts playing out from time to time (it's not that they can go back and review your historical fantasy-landia postenings..... pooof!!!!!!).



I don't really disagree with any of your points aysg76, but surely there are limits in terms of how much lump sum investing that anyone can do, and surely those who engage in more aggressive DCA strategies are likely to have decent payouts but it could still take a few bitcoin cycles for all of it to pay off in strongly measurable ways (and no guarantee, either).

Surely $25 or $100 per week would have been very good for the past 9 years or so, and even you seem to be recognizing that there are likely to be lower levels of UPside in terms of magnitude in which any guy's ongoing BTC investment is going to magnify.. so surely I would not be arguing or discouraging any ongoing and even aggressive BTC accumulation strategy.. but gosh it could take a while to accumulate even 1 BTC.. even though you are correct that accumulating 1BTC is likely going to be better than investing the same fiat in some other investments whether it takes 4 years, 8 years or some other longer time frame to accumulate 1 BTC (referring to newbies who may well have a tight cashflow).

And, so ultimately the punchline does remain that once a person recognizes BTC as a good investment to do what s/he can in terms of the level of aggressiveness that he can afford to do without putting his own finances at risk in terms of getting into trouble with covering expenses...or having to draw from his BTC stash that is of any time that is NOT of his own choosing.. and with BTC it is probably much better to be able to allow it to ride for a while before starting to draw from it (so each of us do have to be careful in terms of NOT over investing, too).

Hahahaha  it's funny how some people seem to get so much glee to talk about other people who they are supposedly ignoring, but cannot resist to read that ideas of such other people whom they had been supposedly ignoring but cannot resist commenting back, as a bonus.

 



There are some people like that, but I doubt that too many people are claiming to NOT be affected at all, but still the point remains that if the cushion is so god damned great and there remains a decent amount of confidence in the strength of the underlying investment, then why get so worked up about what are likely somewhat normal cycles that take place in this particular asset class.. Yes, it got corrected by around 56% for that whole damned cycle and some of that took place in very short periods of time.. but it was likely not even as close as bad as your panicking little whinny FUD spreading ass was making it out to be...especially if you consider the actual context of having had gone up around 6.5x in about 7 months, and then the worst of the correction still had the price of bitcoin up nearly 3x from that starting point.. and sure some whiners like you were proclaiming some high levels of certainty that for sure we were going to get down to less than 2x up and even only 50% up, which still would have been up and should have all been appreciated for buying opportunities rather than crying about the sky supposedly falling when it did not end up happening, and the buying opportunities were likely anywhere in those most doldrums of times of 40% to 56% correction areas that could start to look like pretty decent bargains after more time passes and perhaps even we never get back to anything even near those prices ever again... perhaps? perhaps?  none of us know and even uie poo-ie seem to recognize that sometimes BTC prices do not come back down to their correction prices that had occurred during a bull market.

But sure you had several times clearly and unambiguously and even way the fuck prematurely proclaimed that we were in a bear market.. which is a bunch of bullshit if you were trying to get people to either sell some or all of their bitcoin after an already crash or to cause vulnerable peeps to not buy during the time that they should have been buying.  Hard to really feel sorry for you, when you seem to have pretty damned great inclinations to run as soon as we are anywhere near the trenches and especially that you seem to be trying to get others to run along with you before they are even feeling any inclinations to run.. but whatever, you do you, you whiner who frequently wants to reframe history during the sunnier days to suggest that you were with us the whole time.. blah blah blah.




Ok.. you might be coming around a bit to appreciate that there is a bit of an entry-level idea and to be move off of your your $6 million bullshit from earlier (which would be $12 million-ish now).

By the way, I am suggesting $2 million to be an attempt at a broad-appeal common man fuck you status, and surely attempt to capture a lot of people.. surely not the more elite or the ones with already high standards that they want to (hesitant to say "need to") maintain.

If we are talking about 3rd world countries, it is quite likely that we could still have a lot of folks with quite less than $2million as their entry-level into fuck you status, even $500k-ish or perhaps lower.  $500k of principle couple very well generate $1,667 per month of passive income and surely be enough to live quite well in a lot of places around the world without ever having to work again...

I might need to remind you that the entry level to fuck you status is merely getting to a point that you can live off of the income without ever having to work again.  It does not mean that you are at the top of society or whatever other extra bullshit requirements that you are seeming to want to attribute to entry-level fuck you status.


Again, seems that you are engaged in a decent amount of unnecessary muddying.  Of course, at various times in the past, we had talked about various levels of richie status, so I am not even denying or ignoring the various higher levels of richie status beyond the general entry level fuck you status.. which seems to be currently at $2 million.  

Furthermore your various ways of describing how to maintain your principle or to generate value off of your principle can be applied at any level of income, you don't need $10million to employ some of those various optional techniques if you so choose.


Money is not necessarily a problem at the entry level of $2 million, either...so sure you can buy more things with more money.. but whatever those are just higher levels and again just seeming to muddy the points.. and I am not even saying that people should not want to aspire to having higher levels of richie.. and perhaps higher levels of richie will come anyhow after the fuck you entry level had already been reached.

Let's say for example, someone was already getting pretty damned close to fuck you status when BTC prices were moving around in the $8-$9k range, so when BTC prices got above $10k and stayed there, then moved from $10k to nearly $65k, there could be arguments that at that point, such person had gone to around 8x of the entry-level fuck you status, at least based on the BTC spot price, and sure when the BTC price corrected back down to 30k-ish the person was ONLY around 4x above entry level fuck you status, and sure there might have been some fears developing that the BTC price could drop as low as $15k which would have been close to only 2x entry-level fuck you status.  So surely the level of richie status may have been affected, but there still was a pretty decent level of cushion beyond the entry-level fuck you status .. including that the materiality of the matter did not ever go much more below 4x fuck you entry level so the fear of going down lower did not end up materializing...

Were precautions needed for such person that would not have been necessary for people who had already been at 10x fuck you status around $8-$9k, sure, so surely the person lower on the richie status level was going to feel somewhat more insecure as compared with the guy who had 10x more value, but the points seem to be way more abstract than some of the more basic discussions that I believe that we are attempting to have hear in terms of ideas of broader appeal such as even just figuring out how much it might take to get to fuck you status and perhaps how to attempt to maintain such status or not to pull the fuck you lever too soon rather than getting into too many personal details that have to do with the lifestyles of the rich and famous that are 10x higher or even 100x higher than entry level fuck you status.



oh gawd....  

You seem to be suggesting that lower levels do not count and that peeps need to asprie to the higher levels that you describe..

Whatever.. you can do that if you want.. that's your choice (well that is if you can accumulate enough bitcoin and otherwise have timeline abilities to reasonably accomplish or aspire to those matters).  Seems like way smaller niche areas, and sure some guys might aspire to such.. but I personally believe it is much more interesting to talk about subjects of more broad appeal, including considering how newbies might be grappling with basic BTC accumulation techniques.. and even getting to basic fuck you status level might be something that they see that could be possible 30 years down the road, but they might want to try to employ smarter tactics to cut that timeline in half or even less if possible too..   there are plenty of people who are still contemplating how to get off of zero and just have something like a $25 per week accumulation status.. so maybe just getting to fuck you status remains quite a thing to attempt to achieve (and might even seem a stretch - rather than considering those higher levels that may or may not come after first getting to entry level fuck you status)..



Sure.. no problem.  

I don't necessarily have any problem with some people who may have employed techniques that just sit on their investment for many years and aspire for bitcoin to go up while NOT investing more.

The more active way of ongoingly investing in BTC seems to be a better approach (both historically and likely into the future), in my humble bumble opinion.

Let's say that you are describing a pretty damned realistic situation in which a guy accumulated up to 20 BTC by August 2015.  Personally, I believe that such guy could have accumulated way more BTC during that time if he had some meaningful level of conviction about BTC, but let's say that he had some reservations about investing too much into BTC, so he had ONLY accumulated 20 BTC because he was a wee bit of a scaredy cat in regards to investing too much into BTC.. so he considers $5k invested ($250 per BTC) to be enough... and he will just sit on his 20 BTC and frequently whine that he did not buy more BTC or that the BTC price is not getting to $10 million fast enough...

Let's compare that whiny curmudgeon guy (not anyone I specifically know... with a name Biodom hahahahaha) to the guy who bought 20 BTC by August 2015, and so maybe the non-whiner guy had been lacking some conviction about BTC prior to August 2015, but by August 2015, that guy decides to develop a more activist and ongoing strategy in regards to his BTC accumulation that has a chance of accelerating his getting to fuck you status and not just relying upon a "hail Mary" approach that only relies upon the 20 BTC sufficiently appreciating in value, and the non whiny BTC activist guy considers that it is really not any kind of skin off of his back to continue to invest into BTC with an additional $100 per week to add to his end of 2015 stash of 20 BTC... and just to see where the whole BTC investment goes with such an ongoing relatively small adding to his stash.

The non-whiner ongoing BTC activist investor guy is going to be way the fuck ahead of the reserved curmudgeon guy, even though he would have had to put quite a bit more fiat into BTC over the subsequent 6 years, until present.

So the BTC activist investor guy is not waiting for any kind of "hail Mary" "what ifs" but instead is taking the bull by the horns in terms of his ongoing conviction about BTC in terms of regularly attempting to building his BTC stashed amount.. so he does not have to whine about hoping to get rich faster because even though he had always had some reservations about bitcoin, he had some appreciation  that the BTC price would have good chances of continuing to go up, so considered that regularly and ongoing investment in BTC would likely be a good thing, even if it was a mediocre amount.  

So with $100 per week, his total additional investment into BTC would have been $31,400, and he would have accumulated nearly another 22 BTC, so his total BTC stash would have reached 42 BTC for a total investment of $36,400 (about $867 per BTC).

I am not even proclaiming that 42 BTC gets the BTC activist investor guy to entry-level fuck you status because even though the spot price of 42 BTC as I type this post (price at $45,400) would be about $1.9 million, I do not believe that given BTC's ongoing and likely inevitable volatility, it is prudent to value BTC wealth in terms of spot price.  And I personally believe that currently 42 BTC only brings such guy about half way to entry-level fuck you status (only going by his BTC stash and not other wealth that he may well have).

However, based on some of the presumptions of my earlier post/chart it seems pretty likely that in another 4 years, such activist BTC investor guy will be unambiguously in entry-level fuck you status based on his currently accumulated BTC stash, and sure it would be discretionary whether he would want to continue to regularly put money into BTC until he clearly has reached such status or merely to let his BTC investment ride - and surely it is possible that the approximate 52x price appreciation of his BTC investment ($45,400/$867) his caused a considerable amount of skewing of his overall investment portfolio to have become quite lopsided on the BTC side of the ledger.. which is also discretionary regarding if he would like to just let that skewedness ride (let the winner ride) or to reallocate before reaching entry-level fuck you status.  

Of course, there are some other possible ways to manage the value of a BTC investment, and surely, even though I am personally hostile towards any need to diversify within crypto into non-btc coins, I am not necessarily hostile towards diversifying in other investments, even if historically we have seen all other assets perform less well than bitcoin over the longer time frames.  I personally feel that I have been somewhat spoiled in my own already existing diversification that existed prior to getting into bitcoin - so even though my BTC value has disproportionately appreciated compared to my various traditional investments, I have not found any kind of compelling motivation to diversify out of BTC kin order to attempt to gain more security in terms of some of my traditional assets serving some kind of role to off set some of the ongoing and inevitable BTC volatility.

None of these are easy choices, and surely they are somewhat personalized, so surely diversifying out of some BTC along the way, might cause some greater comfort in terms of some ongoing volatility concerns, but also may well cause it to take longer to get to entry-level fuck you status (and of course, all assets/investments besides just BTC should be considered anyhow when trying to figure out whether or not entry-level fuck you status has been reached)..

Fair enough that I would prefer NOT to be repetitive or redundant, if possible.

We could give it another term, but then the meaning might get lost, no?

What about a poll or a thread in which we attempt to find a better way of describing what we mean and meaning what we say?

Any suggestion(s)?

"Fuck you" status is meant to describe getting to a financial position in which there is absolutely no need to carry out any kind of work - except on your own terms.. frequently used to describe a situation in which someone is either forced into a job or carrying out various contracts or running a business for money or some kind of frequent occurrence of having to maintain medical insurance (at least in the US - and maybe some other places that might get medical insurance through their work).

Of course, there are various retirement systems too that cause people to work while the amount of value in those systems grow, and people are likely penalized if they stop working.. and the benefit level might go down if there are long periods of not contributing into the system (and surely age requirements before drawing from such systems are even possible). 

The factors to be weighed in getting to fuck you status are going to differ based on individual circumstances for sure - and the example that I used with Biodom was his own statements from a few years ago in which he was seeming to be somewhat argumentative (for argument sake it seems) in regards to even how much it might take in his particular case to get to fuck you status, with him seeming to want to suggest that my numbers were way too low to even be practical for a guy like him, and he had required something like 6x or more principle for the entry level to fuck you status that I had then described as being entry level at $1 million (sure sometime after March 2020, I thought it was more accurate to raise that entry level number to $2 million to account for some of the seeming craziness of the new world monetary circumstances that had then come to greater light).

By the way, even though it may seem that I get a lot of pleasure out of frequently using the word "fuck", I surely would prefer if we were able to get a better descriptor that may well even keep the seemingly repetitiveness of using the same word over and over down....

By the way, people like to use descriptors such as financial independence or passive income status.. and those surely do not seem very accurate in their descriptiveness.. so maybe I have been using "fuck you" status for so long that I have dumbed my own lil selfie out of creative word use? perhaps? perhaps?

Anyone? Anyone?

Huh?

I doubt that the battle (war) is going to be over any time soon, and I have troubles understanding why you would be experiencing so much supposed pain.

You say that you are ready for UP, but you tend to spend so much time focusing on down, causing at least this cat to conclude that you have failed/refused to significantly prepare ur lil selfie for UP.

Just think about the whole matter - nearly 8 years involved in bitcoinlandia, and gosh so many opportunities to prepare for UP.. and even to already be in stupendous profits and perhaps even not giving any shitslandia whether you might happen to be up 65x or 30x or 45x (I am just using an average cost per BTC of $1k for shorthand, acknowledging that actual performance may well vary even though there were extended times to buy way below $1k, including that we spent a lot of time in the mid $200s in 2015).

So, sure I can understand if you understashed your sats then you might be way short of fuck you status.

Let's say that you have only stacked around 10 BTC, so you are kind of feeling that you are only 1/10 of the way to fuck you status (that is if we use something like $22k as our bottom BTC price) to get to $2million.  But sure, you have the additional problem of having something like $10/$12 million or so to be your personal entry-level fuck you status, so sure your calculations are different and you are feeling that you need 5-6x more than what some others here (normies) might consider as their entry level fuck you status... so then with that high of a threshold, you may well need 500 BTC - so maybe that is why you are feeling that you want to immediately have 10x or 100x higher prices from here.

But most of us realize that there is no straight UP, and perhaps this cycle might be a stretch, but within the next cycle or two, you should have pretty decent chances of getting a lot closer to those 10x to 100x higher prices from here.. nothing is guaranteed, but sure seems within reach.

No matter what, I would think that anyone who has been in BTC for 8 years should be in a decently better place, even if s/he only managed to stack less than 10 BTC during that time - not even saying that my measly proximity towards getting to 0.21BTC puts me in the same league, in terms of my relative level of wealth, but I do feel much better off for my near 8 years in BTClandia and the profit levels of having had exposure to BTC versus my other traditional investments that have way under performed BTC during that time (or ever for that matter)...

Well, I am glad that you are not putting your whole stash of 0.0158 BTC at risk merely based on your likely to be nonsense hunches, inclinations and seeming confusion regarding betting against a likely bull market.  

I will vouch for your irresponsible and seemingly vacuous character, so in that regard, I am quite confident that you already gambled away any kinds of meaningful returns (beyond having the story) that you had gotten on your 80x leverage.

 

You did not hit any nerve of mine.. ...

We are engaging in a discussion, you wannabe dumb twat.

Now, if you start pumping some shitcoin.. beyond your seeming to cherish the USD, then I may well get a weeeeeeee bit MOAR worked up, but we don't seem to be there, yet.

Let's see how ur lil downity prediction plays out and the supposed story switching fact that you did not sell any lillie fiends.. nor fail to pee pare ur lil selfie sufficiently for the UPpity that has decently good odds of happening... by the way, I change my previous acceptance of 50/50 to more likely 51/49 (or some other variation that favors UPpity) because if we are in a bull market  (which seems that we are) the odds of UPpity tend to be greater than the odds of DOWNity, yet I will concede that largely (besides our seemingly currently valid BTC price prediction models) we cannot really know for sure whether or not we are in a bull market until after the fact.


Another Edit from me:
Yes.. I recall the seeming circumstances of such post.  

At this point, you are just seeming to be in a combative mood, so seems to be fair game to combat with you a wee bit about your historical fame points as well, no?  - to throw it in as bonus discussion points.  

Further Edit - you just keep adding to your above post:

hahahahaha

This is another sign that you are having difficulties containing ur feewwings on the interwebs...   which was the same thingie-ma-jiggie that I recall you pulling when people had been making fun of your user name a ways back... such as referring to you as PMqueennocoiner... hahahaha

What you are supplementarily describing in this post does not seem seem to fit into any kind of 2018 pattern.  Do you even bitcoin?  Were you even here in 2018?

I am not even saying that what you are suggesting might not happen, but you still seem to be implying that the $64,895 top is in.. are you saying that?


Nothing wrong with trading, and surely leveraging can magnify an already dumb point of view, if you are sticking with your point of view and even if you were to be selling a large portion of your coins in order to play your point of view that may be 50/50 odds of playing out, at best... but whatever, do what you are going to do, and I have known quite a few gamblers who have fucked up their lives by NOT playing more prudent strategies, but whatever, if you believe that you have good odds for betting on DOWNity from here, the so be it.. you may well get it right, but I should not place your odds at any better than 50/50 and hopefully you would know better to buy back in a reasonable time.. but the fact that you are selling in these prices probably shows that you are not too attached to the concept of reasonable.

 


Saw this additional point after writing my above response, and sure... I say "fair enough" to that way of looking at the matter, but at the same time, I find no need to change any further of my above response.

Also PS, I just noticed that you changed my name, you childish little dweeb (soon to be whining no coiner).. and I remember how sensitive you had been in some earlier posts when peeps in this here thread had been making fun of your name.. hahahahaha... you are showing that you deserve to be made fun of, even if you did happen to make a killing on 80x leverage, one time... at least, that's what you told us.  You are an irresponsible role model who deserves a batslap for being duuuuuuuuummmmbbbbb.

 



#justpointing it out




 

Oh my.

Are you suggesting DOWNity from here?

Your arrows on that chart are pointing DOWNity, and seems to me that there had been a lot of people suggesting that $64,895 was the top, but after our dip to $28,600 and thereafter our recent recovery into the $46ks, the opinions have been converting into "the bottom is in"...

Though maybe you are a holdout who prefers to go contrary to the opinions of the masses (refering to masses of bitcoiners), no?.

Seems to me (and surely many of the regular normie bitcoiner peeps, including in this thread) have been considering that we are more in a kind of 2017 price-pattern location.. maybe even around mid-2017.. or maybe more like a middle of 2013 pattern (that would suggest only a mere 4x to 5x more from the recent top of $64,895) rather than anywhere resembling a 2018 pattern, yet I am not proclaiming to be any kind of real expert, soothsayer nor to have wisdom of the crowds to validate the point.. but maybe also the various seemingly credible BTC price prediction models seem to be backing a claim that the top is not in, yet?

Are you using leverage to back up your hunches goldkingcoiner in order that you will more quickly convert ur lil selfie from a coiner to a gold-nocoiner?  80x works sometimes, right?

Edited post prior to seeing goldkingcoiner's below response.