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721  Economy / Speculation / Re: November 2013 Bubble Analysis on: November 27, 2013, 05:18:18 AM
I agree with most of your post, but I think we are well into the early adopter phase, if not through it already -- actually this timing is what worries me the most.

I misspoke, the 'chasm' is between the early adopters and early majority, and given that, perhaps you are right-- I don't think so, I tend to think we are just crossing into the early adopter stage, only. That's how the infrastructure is getting rolled out for the 1 or 2 out of 100 to be able to use it. Even at early adopter stage, the usability must be pretty decent, and it's just now coming-of-age at the most basic levels. Even those are lacking-- the best example is the exchanges, and some merchant services-- still no remittances, micropayments, escrow, et al. While at early innovator stages, it was really only a very tiny subset that was able to fit the requirements for usage.

If you subscribe to the ideas of 'Crossing the Chasm', then what might the chasm represent? Would it be the question of how does a regular Joe use bitcoin? I think that's a reasonable place holder, and one for which Bitoin still has a long way to go. Remember, early adopters are some 13% of the market. There is no way we have made large inroads to that group. We are probably still well under 1% adoption, though the media is covering this realm.

The chasm with regard to the population of early adopter bitcoin speculators and early majority bitcoin speculators, as I understand your terms, was the period in 2011 when the  trustworthiness and utility of bitcoin exchanges was very much in doubt. During the early adoption period exchanges were non existent or not somewhere that I felt really safe storing coins. According, I put June 2011 at the trough of the chasm for adopting bitcoin speculators.

The chasm with regard to the underlying economy may be upon us. As informed speculators we can envision the replacement of legacy financial infrastructure with bitcoin. I see very impressive transaction volume reported by coinometrics.
722  Economy / Speculation / Re: November 2013 Bubble Analysis on: November 27, 2013, 01:05:48 AM
Hello, I'm a newer poster here-- just want to say hello and thank you for your dialogue and share a few of mine own thoughts. What an awesome thread! Slippery Slope, thank you and others for such careful and thoughtful analysis.

As stated, we have now seen the confirmed continuation within what appears to be the suggested trajectory (parabolic or however you wish to define it). While the nearly horizontal channel between approximately 750 - 850 held for several days, the breakout gives us further evidence that another doubling may reasonably occur, as stated. The fact that it was more horizontal should indicate greater strength at the breakout.

Perhaps the retracement to 450 from 900 will not ultimately be part of this bubble's character, if, in hindsight we are looking at one or even 2 more doublings in the coming weeks?

Or, else, the echo bubble idea seems reasonable, too.  While media continues to cover Bitcoin, it certainly seems to be lessening, in cascading and diminishing reflections, as does volume. These two things should be increasing, if I understand the principles correctly, creating the fuel to drive price through resistance.
Hi and welcome to our forum!

Regarding the depth of the retracement from the next peak, I look at the depth chart, Fibonacci ratios and historical price support levels. My current tactic is to await a pull back and buy some more fractional bitcoin at lower than peak prices. I am resolved not to sell or spend any investment bitcoins until at least 2017.

Remember to figure volume on at least three exchanges nowadays: BTC China, MtGox and BitStamp. Media is important when getting the word out but at this point I think it is personal networking, e.g. word of mouth that motivates new speculators to buy bitcoin. That networking is what I model with logistic adoption S curves.
723  Economy / Speculation / Re: November 2013 Bubble Analysis on: November 26, 2013, 07:09:03 PM
Onward to a new peak.

Evidence mounts that the November 18 peak was not conclusively collapsed. I expect a larger following bubble. Price doubling rates may again prove to be a good indicator when it comes to predicting the next price peak and date.

724  Economy / Speculation / Re: How many bitcoin parabolic rise and bubble crash have you been through? 1, 2, 3? on: November 26, 2013, 05:46:39 AM
All of them.

My strategy is to buy some more throughout 2014 and hold until at least 2017.
725  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 26, 2013, 04:14:35 AM
MtGox pulling china along at the moment testing $850.
726  Economy / Speculation / Re: November 2013 Bubble Analysis on: November 24, 2013, 01:05:36 PM
So what do you guys make of the current double top near 900$??
There is no bubble that i know of that has had a double top after a more then 50% retraction. Isnt it a bubble after all? Is it one of the often cited but rarely observed "echo bubbles"?
I have been buying fractions during the dips given the growing possibility that the November peak was not collapsed with enough emphasis thus serving as a base for another even greater blowoff rally. It would be technically very significant if the price breaks the all time high on respective exchanges. This breakthrough could occur within days given the strength of the buyers.

At the moment, every one of my small purchases shows a profit.
727  Economy / Economics / Re: Monthly average USD/bitcoin price & trend on: November 23, 2013, 07:44:05 PM
Your log regression line looks similar to the one I plotted with a logistic function. In particular it is notable that 1000 is expected by Q1 2013 and 10000 is expected about a year later.
728  Economy / Speculation / Re: Accumulating coins on: November 22, 2013, 03:39:14 PM
Interesting that 2013 is probably the last year in which speculators will typically buy whole coins.

As new funds become available to me, I try to buy fractions anytime there is not a bubble underway. Bubbles are easy to see and widely predicted here. I do not buy in the week leading up to the bubble peak, rather I wait until the bubble crashes to ensure that my purchases are made at a better valuation.

For example, I bought fractions from 300 to 488 using Coinbase earlier this month, then waited for the bubble to peak, then bought more from 511 to 622. If prices fall below 675 I plan to buy more, otherwise I will wait a bit.
729  Economy / Economics / Re: Monthly average USD/bitcoin price & trend on: November 22, 2013, 03:23:44 PM
I bet most of the readers believe I have the upper hand, and also I think so.

Indeed.
730  Economy / Economics / Re: rpietila public diary -- Episode II on: November 21, 2013, 06:08:41 PM
I have a strategy, which does not involve a stop-loss. It involves a concept called creep from last May. Wink I am still short the coins..

..but I have to say it hurts. Just like it hurt after selling in September and seeing the price go up. When enough people have this realization, perhaps we will see singularity after all.  Shocked

I agree that the market looks way overbought in regard to the consensus log trend price growth.

However, I will be making additional fractional purchases as circumstances and opportunities permit through at least June 2014.
731  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen. on: November 21, 2013, 04:33:04 PM
This thread is like a room of wonders in the fantasy palace aspect of the bitcoin speculation phenomenon.

The top post should be enshrined.    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=12156.msg169751#msg169751

Quote
The world just isn't going to be the same and we have been blessed as the pioneers.

Fittingly, it was written during the rational exuberance leading up to the greatest bitcoin bubble. Word was spreading, and the bold assumption that a digital virtual currency could replace the world's financial infrastructure, allowed calculations estimating the fantastic ultimate valuation of a bitcoin. At the time, miners and speculators active on this forum routinely held 50 or more bitcoins.

The irony of the anonymous author's vision is how much longer it would take for growing number of speculators to get the message.

But here we are today, at the threshold of the milestone $1,000. Think about safeguarding, accumulating, transacting your resources for the benefit of your loved ones, and perhaps too, some significant purpose.
732  Economy / Economics / Re: rpietila public diary -- Episode II on: November 21, 2013, 03:46:41 PM
My buy some more and hold strategy worked so far. I dribbled out quite a few fractional buys: 511, 601, 598, 622, 606, 593, 600 and 607. Currently, MtGox is surging upwards, beyond $700 as I finish this.

I am worried about Risto's big bet that prices are going lower.

If the current technical stock pattern turns out to be a triangle, as was the case back in April, then maybe a midpoint price between the high of 900 and low of 453, equals 676.5. My tactic in this pattern is to buy some more fractions below 675 - if indeed it ever does.
733  Economy / Economics / Re: rpietila public diary -- Episode II on: November 21, 2013, 03:12:46 PM
My buy some more and hold strategy worked so far. I dribbled out quite a few fractional buys: 511, 601, 598, 622, 606, 593, 600 and 607. Currently, MtGox is surging upwards, beyond $700 as I finish this.

I am worried about Risto's big bet that prices are going lower.
734  Economy / Speculation / Re: This is the growth of a payment processor on: November 20, 2013, 05:39:11 PM
Not a startup, but in terms of market share, number or regular users etc. it's comparable.

+1

For the curious, I published a logistic model of bitcoin adoption by speculators https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArD8rjI3DD1WdGhDN3FBWFptTlZTREN0cFkxZ3JHTnc. The model does not predict the maximum bitcoin price, rather it says when exponential price growth ends for your guess of maximum price. I plotted four plausible maximum per bitcoin prices in USD: 40,000 , 100,000 , 1,000,000 and 5,000,000 . The curves show that exponential growth can continue for a few more years.
735  Economy / Speculation / Re: November 2013 Bubble Analysis on: November 20, 2013, 05:26:07 PM
I'm not saying that it will go that low, but it's possible. From the 10k coins seen in Gox order books, now there
are about 33k, and as holders will see the price not going up significantly, they might decide to sell more before
the price drops further, in a cascading effect. And then we may see multiple aborted new bubbles and capitulations.


Second, you completely fail to acknowledge the tremendous buying pressure at several support stops along the way.   There are hundreds of millions of dollars sitting on the sidelines now that would KILL to buy at $60 and much higher.

+1  I see it very unlikely that we will drop below our April highs (the buy pressure below that is enormous). I see nothing technically nor fundamentally at the moment that would suggest that. We just got ahead of ourselves, and this will happen many times going forward as news waves of new money come into the game, and the traders play off this, as far as they can.
Ditto to all that. I just bought a fraction more.
736  Economy / Speculation / Re: November 2013 Bubble Analysis on: November 20, 2013, 10:26:25 AM
Recall that we waited 6 days for the bottom in the April bubble.

I believe that this bubble has more in common with the April bubble than with the great bitcoin bubble of June 2011.



As Coinbase intermittently permits, I am buying small amounts.
737  Economy / Speculation / Re: November 2013 Bubble Analysis on: November 20, 2013, 09:21:49 AM
. . . However, we are testing support at $500 (Gox) and that looks like it very well may not hold.

If that support does not hold then we could be on a slower drip down.  It looks at least like we are not going to consolidate in the 700s, so I do not think we will be going up to new highs in the next couple of weeks. Of course, I could be absolutely wrong. But right now, I'd take that bet that we are going lower for a while (not like in April) before getting our legs back. And the longer we go down, the longer its going to take us to go back up. We very well might not see ATHs until 2014.

Agree with your interpretation of overnight price action. Perhaps other commentators would too.

Although BTC China has been trending down towards their post-peak low, this recent down leg was propelled by large sell orders on MtGox.
738  Economy / Speculation / Re: November 2013 Bubble Analysis on: November 20, 2013, 09:13:33 AM
Great thread with good accuracy! Respect you called it right.
Quote
we might expect one more doubling with the peak very roughly around $1000

Here is some contribution of mine. I would say your approach is better because it is universal, while I was trying to make out indicators of the final stages of a bubble by looking at it graphically. The disadvantage of it is that you have to accomodate bubbles you want to compare in the same image to keep the ratio. Read all about how I did it here: https://www.tradingview.com/v/sptX03Sf/

Update: The Final trend line (not in version of upper picture) turned out exactly 83.0° and is typical for the last slope increase before collapse. It started from 498$ and was finally crossed by the falling candle body at 706$. The candle closed below the trendline, which is, if you read my methodoligy beyond this link cryteria for calling the burst. I have to admit anecdotely that I sold at 580$, not going all the way with my method. I could have gained another 20%.
Degrees of Craziness indeed. I believe that we are both measuring the same phenomenon.

There is actually decades-long financial science behind this sort of bubble analysis: http://arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/9903321. The theory is that the crash hazard rate rapidly increases at the bubble peak, and that is what we are indirectly measuring via your angles, Bolinger outliers as described above, and my own doubling duration times.
739  Economy / Speculation / Re: November 2013 Bubble Analysis on: November 20, 2013, 08:07:31 AM
with more sophisticated players in the market, the bubbles may be less violent or damaging with faster consolidation
They already are, in a way.

* June 2011 peaked at 7x the value it had 1 month before and then dropped by 90% at its worst.

* April 2013 peaked at 5x compared to 1 month before and bottomed at 70% less.

* November 2013 I would've expected to see peaking at about 4x, but China helped it do 5.21x again, so another -65%, -70% movement is possible now.

A new post bubble low of 475 was recently reached on MtGox, so the bubble is not yet fully collapsed.
740  Economy / Economics / Re: Monthly average USD/bitcoin price & trend on: November 19, 2013, 09:14:49 PM
There is a very compelling argument right now that the recent price movement is driven by fundamentals because of China's recent en masse entry to the buyers market.

Fitting to a trendline has no relationship to these fundamentals, and if we are to believe that there is something technologically-transformative or revolutionary about Bitcoin, then the fundamentals are the dominant factor in driving long-term pricing. This is not pork bellies, barrels of oil, or frozen concentrated orange juice.

I understand bitcoin speculation fundamentals as per your example. Clearly the price is driven upwards at this point by exponentially increasing numbers of speculators. See my logistic model of speculator adoption of bitcoin - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=322058.msg3549092#msg3549092

And I distinguish the fundamentals of the underlying bitcoin economy as very well presented by http://coinometrics.com/bitcoin/btix .

Regression fitting and other sorts of technical analysis abstract out the underlying phenomena and simply model the behavior of informed and uninformed traders. Technical analysis is good at predicting bitcoin price bubbles and for giving us the best possible predictions about future bitcoin valuations.
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