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Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

on: April 15, 2013, 09:22:34 PM

Quote from: Mike Christ on April 15, 2013, 09:17:30 PM Quote from: kokjo on April 15, 2013, 09:13:57 PM on my little piece of land i will not make roads, and after that abuse others without contributing. i could also begin to take money for passing my 50 meters of road, or other complicated things. And what will you do when I refuse to pay your toll? Kick my ass? Ha ha ha! you would be trespassing on my private property. American laws(which we have not accepted, i know) says i could shoot you.

782

Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

on: April 15, 2013, 09:19:27 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 15, 2013, 09:15:54 PM Quote from: kokjo on April 15, 2013, 09:13:57 PM Quote from: Mike Christ on April 15, 2013, 09:09:59 PM Quote from: kokjo on April 15, 2013, 09:07:39 PM Quote from: Mike Christ on April 15, 2013, 09:05:37 PM Then why not just keep the money and decide what you do with your "tax" on your own? Infrastructure. Who will pay for the roads? You will. You have to pay for the roads with or without a tax. You're assuming people are too stupid to fix their own roads, and must pay a man to wear a badge and use their money to pay a private business to build the roads. Why not cut the middle man out and fund the roads voluntarily? on my little piece of land i will not make roads, and after that abuse others without contributing. i could also begin to take money for passing my 50 meters of road, or other complicated things. So, what you're saying is, you'll only contribute to society if forced to, and only if others are forced to as well? What a good little socialist. im saying shit could get ugly, if stuff does not gets handled from a "central"-point. its essentially game theory, there are no simple solutions.

783

Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

on: April 15, 2013, 09:15:42 PM

it would be much better, if we all just decided to make roads, and then force people to pay.

784

Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

on: April 15, 2013, 09:13:57 PM

Quote from: Mike Christ on April 15, 2013, 09:09:59 PM Quote from: kokjo on April 15, 2013, 09:07:39 PM Quote from: Mike Christ on April 15, 2013, 09:05:37 PM Then why not just keep the money and decide what you do with your "tax" on your own? Infrastructure. Who will pay for the roads? You will. You have to pay for the roads with or without a tax. You're assuming people are too stupid to fix their own roads, and must pay a man to wear a badge and use their money to pay a private business to build the roads. Why not cut the middle man out and fund the roads voluntarily? on my little piece of land i will not make roads, and after that abuse others without contributing. i could also begin to take money for passing my 50 meters of road, or other complicated things.

785

Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

on: April 15, 2013, 09:07:39 PM

Quote from: Mike Christ on April 15, 2013, 09:05:37 PM Then why not just keep the money and decide what you do with your "tax" on your own? Infrastructure. Who will pay for the roads?

786

Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

on: April 15, 2013, 09:03:51 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 15, 2013, 08:52:39 PM Rights are reciprocal agreements. You cannot expect to get that which you do not give. i just did. in anycase then, consider taxes then. I want all people to pay taxes, and i will pay too, and we(the people) will decide what to do with the pile of money.

787

Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

on: April 15, 2013, 08:44:33 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 15, 2013, 08:38:28 PM Quote from: kokjo on April 15, 2013, 08:36:26 PM should we allow murder? Well, that depends. Would you like to be murdered? no i would not. BUT if i said i could not agree with his no murders principle, i would have less happiness. im fairly certain no sane person would allow murder, but a hypothetical person could be pro-murder, and we could there for not make the general rule "no murders" without stepping on someones toes.

788

Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

on: April 15, 2013, 08:36:26 PM

should we allow murder?

789

Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

on: April 15, 2013, 08:28:19 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 15, 2013, 08:25:24 PM Quote from: kokjo on April 15, 2013, 08:23:47 PM I don't think i would be happy in a libertarian society, it would be way too chaotic. I love how you completely invalidate your entire post with that last sentence. im only saying that his logic also applies to a libertarian society, and it is therefor not acceptable. sure i could live in it, but i would not be like this:

790

Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

on: April 15, 2013, 08:23:47 PM

Quote from: Mike Christ on April 15, 2013, 08:14:09 PM Quote from: kokjo on April 15, 2013, 08:11:40 PM https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white I don't see how you're making that connection. have you ever heard of compromises? or that happyness is not a binary thing? you claim that there would be a 50% population would be 0% happy and the other 50% would be 100% happy. would a 75% 80%-happy, and 25% 50%-happy population, be good enough for you? Compromises must always be made. I don't think i would be happy in a libertarian society, it would be way too chaotic.

791

Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

on: April 15, 2013, 08:11:40 PM

Quote from: Mike Christ on April 15, 2013, 08:05:59 PM Quote from: kokjo on April 15, 2013, 08:01:34 PM Quote from: Mike Christ on April 15, 2013, 07:57:15 PM Quote from: MysteryMiner on April 15, 2013, 07:44:56 PM Uncontrolled capitalistic economy is even worse. All it cares about is profit and it ignores nations needs and higher principles. Since when does an abstract concept such as a nation have needs or principles? Isn't it the individual who has needs and principles? And wouldn't all those needs and principles be different? And if this is all true, wouldn't capitalism, which appeals only to a person's needs, and can be thwarted with an individual's principles, be a lot better than a system that requires everyone to be the same person for it to work? We'll never know, since capitalism has never existed (excluding the Icelanders) in its intended form. There is no regulated free market. That is an oxymoron. higher principles are stuff like moral, fairness, right to own property, and other things there is not just bare survival. That's the kicker; neither you or I agree on many things. Imagine us trying to setup a nation together. At least 50% of that nation's people will be unhappy, while the other half can't figure out why the 1st half is complaining--after all, they got their way, and their way is just the way they wanted! So a nation with 50% of people in agreement with 100% of law invented for 100% of its citizens does not equate into a nation with a like mind. A nation is simply an abstraction, an imaginary line drawn in the dirt, and yet dares to represent the individual. How? How could it? It cannot. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

792

Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

on: April 15, 2013, 08:01:34 PM

Quote from: Mike Christ on April 15, 2013, 07:57:15 PM Quote from: MysteryMiner on April 15, 2013, 07:44:56 PM Uncontrolled capitalistic economy is even worse. All it cares about is profit and it ignores nations needs and higher principles. Since when does an abstract concept such as a nation have needs or principles? Isn't it the individual who has needs and principles? And wouldn't all those needs and principles be different? And if this is all true, wouldn't capitalism, which appeals only to a person's needs, and can be thwarted with an individual's principles, be a lot better than a system that requires everyone to be the same person for it to work? We'll never know, since capitalism has never existed (excluding the Icelanders) in its intended form. There is no regulated free market. That is an oxymoron. higher principles are stuff like moral, fairness, right to own property, and other things there is not just bare survival.

793

Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Help needed : New to Ubuntu, no idea how to install Bitcoin

on: April 15, 2013, 07:36:19 PM

Quote from: nameless888 on April 15, 2013, 07:22:47 PM Quote from: kokjo on April 15, 2013, 07:16:10 PM Quote from: nameless888 on April 15, 2013, 07:09:57 PM Quote from: kokjo on April 15, 2013, 07:07:03 PM use the ppa Yeah I tried that too but wasn't sure exactly how to do it, sorry I forgot. But you have to remember you're talking to a complete n00b here when it comes to ubuntu. Can you or anyone else post a step by step please, or a link that fully explains how to do it? in the terminal run this command, to add the bitcoin repo: Code: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin and then update: Code: sudo apt-get update and then, to install bitcoin: Code: sudo apt-get install bitcoin Doesn't work, because it needs these files and the pages are down : http://ppa.launchpad.net/stretch/bitcoin/ubuntu/dists/quantal/main/source/Sources http://ppa.launchpad.net/stretch/bitcoin/ubuntu/dists/quantal/main/binary-i386/Packages This was actually one of the main reasons I didn't switch to linux ages ago. The lack of .exe files for things. edit : Thanks Coincrazy, but the instructions in that video are the same and it can't find the files due to pages that are down. Full text is : Quote You are about to add the following PPA to your system: Bitcoin and related applications. More info: https://launchpad.net/~stretch/+archive/bitcoin Press [ENTER] to continue or ctrl-c to cancel adding it gpg: keyring `/tmp/tmpn7kkby/secring.gpg' created gpg: keyring `/tmp/tmpn7kkby/pubring.gpg' created gpg: requesting key A4FF3776 from hkp server keyserver.ubuntu.com gpg: /tmp/tmpn7kkby/trustdb.gpg: trustdb created gpg: key A4FF3776: public key "Launchpad PPA for David Armstrong" imported gpg: Total number processed: 1 gpg: imported: 1 (RSA: 1) OK nameless@nameless-ThinkPad-T61:~$ sudo apt-get update Ign http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security InRelease Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal InRelease Ign http://extras.ubuntu.com quantal InRelease Ign http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal InRelease Get:1 http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security Release.gpg [933 B] Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal InRelease Hit http://extras.ubuntu.com quantal Release.gpg Ign http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates InRelease Get:2 http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security Release [49.6 kB] Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal InRelease Hit http://extras.ubuntu.com quantal Release Ign http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports InRelease Hit http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal Release.gpg Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal Release.gpg Hit http://extras.ubuntu.com quantal/main Sources Hit http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal Release.gpg Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates Release.gpg Hit http://extras.ubuntu.com quantal/main i386 Packages Get:3 http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/main Sources [39.0 kB] Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal Release.gpg Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports Release.gpg Hit http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal Release Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal Release Get:4 http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/restricted Sources [1,833 B] Hit http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal Release Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates Release Get:5 http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/universe Sources [16.1 kB] Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal Release Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports Release Get:6 http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/multiverse Sources [704 B] Hit http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal/main Sources Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/main Sources Get:7 http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/main i386 Packages [105 kB] Hit http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal/main i386 Packages Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/restricted Sources Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/universe Sources Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/multiverse Sources Get:8 http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/restricted i386 Packages [3,531 B] Hit http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal/main Sources Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/main i386 Packages Ign http://extras.ubuntu.com quantal/main Translation-en_GB Get:9 http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/universe i386 Packages [45.8 kB] Hit http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal/main i386 Packages Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/restricted i386 Packages Ign http://extras.ubuntu.com quantal/main Translation-en Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/universe i386 Packages Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/multiverse i386 Packages Get:10 http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/multiverse i386 Packages [1,402 B] Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/main Translation-en_GB Hit http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/main Translation-en Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/main Translation-en Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/multiverse Translation-en_GB Hit http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/multiverse Translation-en Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/multiverse Translation-en Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/restricted Translation-en_GB Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/restricted Translation-en Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/universe Translation-en_GB Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal/universe Translation-en Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/main Sources Hit http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/restricted Translation-en Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/restricted Sources Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/universe Sources Hit http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/universe Translation-en Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/multiverse Sources Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/main i386 Packages Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/restricted i386 Packages Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/universe i386 Packages Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/multiverse i386 Packages Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/main Translation-en Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/multiverse Translation-en Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/restricted Translation-en Ign http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/main Translation-en_GB Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/universe Translation-en Ign http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/multiverse Translation-en_GB Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/main Sources Ign http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/restricted Translation-en_GB Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/restricted Sources Ign http://security.ubuntu.com quantal-security/universe Translation-en_GB Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/universe Sources Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/multiverse Sources Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/main i386 Packages Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/restricted i386 Packages Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/universe i386 Packages Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal/main Translation-en_GB Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/multiverse i386 Packages Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal/main Translation-en Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal/main Translation-en_GB Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal/main Translation-en Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/main Translation-en Err http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal/main Sources 404 Not Found Err http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal/main i386 Packages 404 Not Found Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/multiverse Translation-en Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal/main Translation-en_GB Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net quantal/main Translation-en Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/restricted Translation-en Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/universe Translation-en Ign http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/main Translation-en_GB Ign http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/multiverse Translation-en_GB Ign http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/restricted Translation-en_GB Ign http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-updates/universe Translation-en_GB Ign http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/main Translation-en_GB Ign http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/multiverse Translation-en_GB Ign http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/restricted Translation-en_GB Ign http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com quantal-backports/universe Translation-en_GB Fetched 263 kB in 9s (27.5 kB/s) W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/stretch/bitcoin/ubuntu/dists/quantal/main/source/Sources 404 Not Found W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/stretch/bitcoin/ubuntu/dists/quantal/main/binary-i386/Packages 404 Not Found E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead. nameless@nameless-ThinkPad-T61:~$ sudo apt-get install bitcoin Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done E: Unable to locate package bitcoin try: sudo apt-get install bitcoin-qt

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Other / Off-topic / Re: Proof dank is jesus

on: April 15, 2013, 07:20:46 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 15, 2013, 07:16:52 PM Ladies and gentlemen, we have a new Jesus! My previous statement saying dank should be a philosopher, was wrong. He is an artist.

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Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Help needed : New to Ubuntu, no idea how to install Bitcoin

on: April 15, 2013, 07:16:10 PM

Quote from: nameless888 on April 15, 2013, 07:09:57 PM Quote from: kokjo on April 15, 2013, 07:07:03 PM use the ppa Yeah I tried that too but wasn't sure exactly how to do it, sorry I forgot. But you have to remember you're talking to a complete n00b here when it comes to ubuntu. Can you or anyone else post a step by step please, or a link that fully explains how to do it? in the terminal run this command, to add the bitcoin repo: Code: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin and then update: Code: sudo apt-get update and then, to install bitcoin: Code: sudo apt-get install bitcoin

796

Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Help needed : New to Ubuntu, no idea how to install Bitcoin

on: April 15, 2013, 07:07:03 PM

Quote from: nameless888 on April 15, 2013, 07:04:41 PM Hi there. So I decided I'd check out linux for the first time, and installed the ubuntu 12.10 demo on a USB. It seemed to work well so I thought I'd partition then install it, but I messed up the partition and totally destroyed my windows installation. I'm on a thinkpad T61 with no CD either, so even pressing the thinkvantage button to try to reinstall it failed, but luckily I still had the USB with ubuntu, so here I am after installing it, almost completely clueless and new to ubuntu/linux, but stuck with it. So I have bitcoin-0.8.1-linux, which took an effort to even extract from the tar.gz, and also the original bitcoin-0.8.1-linux.tar.gz file. Other than that I'm stuffed. Tried using extracting methods via the terminal after searching around a bit, but there's threads from years back with older ubuntu versions, and they're talking about extracting it but the GUI doesn't even show up, and that natty has to be switched to maverick in some area. Please tell me it's easier than that, and please help me get this thing working on linux. Thanks loads of you can help! I also lost my first wallet.dat but the only thing I'm really going to lose is the bitcoins from 2nd place on bunny run, so not too bad I guess! use the ppa

797

Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much?

on: April 15, 2013, 07:02:27 PM

Quote from: cypher-punk on April 15, 2013, 07:00:10 PM Quote from: kokjo on April 15, 2013, 06:58:58 PM Quote from: cypher-punk on April 15, 2013, 06:49:32 PM Well - anyhow. Please give us the public record of monies that Israelis paid for Arab lands in recent history to back up all of the above political statements. Thank You, Sir. oh, how nice colored text. only S3052 is allowed to do that. he is Iraeli by any chance? Yeah? IT WAS A KIND SUGGESTION TO STOP USING FANCY COLORED LETTERS BECAUSE THEY ANNOY ME

798

Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much?

on: April 15, 2013, 06:58:58 PM

Quote from: cypher-punk on April 15, 2013, 06:49:32 PM Well - anyhow. Please give us the public record of monies that Israelis paid for Arab lands in recent history to back up all of the above political statements. Thank You, Sir. oh, how nice colored text. only S3052 is allowed to do that.

799

Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much?

on: April 15, 2013, 06:46:52 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 15, 2013, 06:43:43 PM Quote from: cypher-punk on April 15, 2013, 06:40:01 PM You mean like Mr. Adolf Hitler had a somewhat similar claim on Poland, Ukraine, Stalingrad, Moscow, Paris? Like that kind of "claim" by any chance? Or maybe I misspelled "claim" as a legal term... under [wtf] law. I am not sure. This is a complete non-sequitur. You really need to start quoting the posts you're replying to, so we have a chance of piecing together wtf you're saying. shit! i did not notice, maybe thats why im having a hard time understanding him.

800

Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much?

on: April 15, 2013, 06:20:41 PM

Quote from: Mike Christ on April 15, 2013, 06:15:33 PM It means an illegitimate body is writing the word on legitimacy. Quote from: Rassah on April 15, 2013, 06:13:02 PM It's only illegal in the same way a king coming over, taking over your property, claiming it's his, and setting up rules is illegal. They just decided to make the king be electable by a representable body, and put term limits on him. So, really, by your definition, almost no government would be legal. I agree. No government can legitimize itself. And it's not my definition; my professor's the one who made the connection. This is a chicken-and-egg problem. chickens exist, governments are legal.

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