The concept of peer review doesn't eliminate clever lying or clever deception or incomplete paper. The point of establishing my scenario for CV has to do with the idea that we need court debates. Peer reviewed papers aren't strong enough.  So you don't understand the concept of peer review. Great.
You sort of proved my point there. Someone competent at reading a paper (a peer) can easily see through clever lying, deception, or an incomplete paper. An Audi mechanic talking nonsense to a Mercedes mechanic wouldn't fly, the same thing applies.
This is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Tens of millions of doctors, a profession known for their lack of intelligence are being tricked or have all banded together to push this agenda that is detrimental to themselves. Of the tens of millions of bad actors out there, theres not a single one with a heavy conscience that is blowing the whistle on this global conspiracy. No, you're right. We've got tens of millions of bad actors from every country, all lying in order to work overtime, with pay cuts, and in a more stressful environment. I'm on board and I'm also inquiring as to whether oxygen is a conspiracy. I've never seen it, could be a bunch of guys lying to me. Please find me papers explaining oxygen suitable for a 10 year old to understand, but it also must be comprehensive. If I don't understand it, I'll reject it. Now that I think of it, I've never actually seen my lungs either, doctors very well could be lying that we even have lungs, in which case it'd be impossible to have pneumonia. |
|
|
|
That's all "Sort of" True but in the last several weeks we've all heard quite a bit of blabbing in the media where otherwise intelligent medical doctors talk about "models."
And suddenly they are way, WAY out o their depth and saying ridiculous things and thinking they are an expert. But they don't know how stupid the things they say really are. Many other examples of this sort of issue.
You'd have to give specific examples. I've mentioned a few times that the media may have a plausible interest in lying. They could likely get away with a misrepresented detail that is true as long as you don't interpret it the way they are insinuating, but a straight out falsehood would likely get called out immediately and have them condemned. There may be financial incentive in having the most sensational news story, but thats only as long as you don't lose face and end up missing out on this entire cash cow.
Even if it is only millions of times vs your billions, could you give us a few legal sites for Coronavirus... pertaining to proof of its existence and that it has done any damage?
Do obituaries count or do you want to see actual death certificates? I don't know that thats public information. I could also link you to the CDC's statistics but I'm sure you're capable of finding that on your own. Scientific peer review is great. Let's see a paper on CV. Remember, there are tons of peer reviewed papers for evolution, but few of these papers take into account that there isn't any real random in the universe. So evolution is programming. In the same way, have the papers for CV taken into account the true background of things? Or are there loads of assumptions in all of it?
The assumptions you are talking about are background information it is assumed that their audience understands. Scientific journals are written to peers that are understood to have a similar level of understanding as the author. Just because they don't hold your hand through the first 6 years of intro to medical school material doesn't mean its not valid. The jury of random people isn't the important part. The important part has to do with the threat placed on the witnesses to tell the absolute truth, so that we see when they finally must admit that they are making a bunch of assumptions and guesses... that maybe look good, but really aren't known to be true.
Again, do you know how difficult it is to have a global conspiracy? Think of some of the valid conspiracy theories that have some residue of evidence to them, and evaluate how many people are "in the know". Loose lips sink ships, and we've got millions of potential squeaky wheels. The simple example of this is the 99% that would have died of something in Italy, but because CV symptoms were there - which symptoms match all kinds of other flu and pneumonia, as well - they attributed the deaths to CV. Then later, when it became apparent to the public that nobody knows if they died of CV, and after the pandemic lie had taken hold, they admitted that they didn't know for sure if it was CV. So, why is it different now? Same thing might still be happening. We need strict court controls with threats to make the witnesses show the facts.
Every pathologist and forensic scientist is laughing hysterically at you. This isn't the 1600s, the cause of death listed as an imbalance of humors doesn't fly. People specialize for a reason. And the field of medical science alone shows this to be true... with all kinds of doctors specializing in all kinds of different things. And this is exactly the problem. A literal handful of people were specialists in CV, and the rest of the doctors believed what they said... without proof. And the governments believed the doctors. And the people believed the medical. But if there was proof, let us see it. This stuff is a world problem, not a little local town somewhere.
My background is nuclear physics. Because I've specialized, I am not confident that I could give you an answer on an advanced topic of relativity or thermodynamics, but I could certainly follow another specialist explaining because I have the foundation that leads up to the concepts. Lets say there are actual experts specifically on corona viruses, SARS, MERS, etc, they'd be able to portray every bit of what they're thinking to someone who has a background in virology or infectious diseases. An Audi mechanic talking nonsense to a Mercedes mechanic wouldn't fly, the same thing applies. Nobody knows yet if it Coronavirus or Covid-19, and to what extent. Covid-19 might be present, but the tests are still in their early stages to even prove this. However, testing positive for Covid-19 doesn't make one dangerous, necessarily. Everybody has all kinds of other viruses, as well. Even the sick aren't known to be sick from CV, even if they are CV positive, and have the symptoms. Something else with similar symptoms might be what is making them sick.
If you go into an ER bleeding out of your gunshot wound, they don't go searching for a brain hemorrhage as the cause of your low blood pressure. I really don't know how to reply to this, because I can't think of an explanation other than who cares? If there is Covid19 and also LeprechaunDisease which also looks, behaves, has similar symptoms, and fatalities, does it matter if we say everyone be careful of Covid versus be careful of Covid and LeprechaunDisease? The fact of peer reviews doesn't make sense, because there are so many variables that can be guessed at. The thing that needs to be done is that courtroom like proof needs to be ascertained. And not only once, but thousands of times, all recorded in the Federal and State court case books with court sites so that people can go and see what the results were and why. Do you have any of those for CV? Were they detailed enough? So you don't understand the concept of peer review. Great. You have a severe lack of understanding of the sophistication of modern medical science. Doctors, radiologists, pathologists, virologists, etc. They don't just phone it in and pull diagnosis out of their asses. Why are we not questioning the authenticity of water PH testers? That stupid piece of paper turned red, but I'm not convinced my water is acidic. Your only valid point so far is that people have the capability of lying. I'm not an expert on human behavior, but I'm just making a guess based on my experiences that people usually lie for some sort of benefit. If the tens of millions of people covering and reaffirming this lie are doing so at their own expense, I'm stumped. I think I'm done trying to establish your train of thought and where things went off the rails because there was no point that was on track. I'm just curious, can you establish the entire story for your alternate scenario? Whats the motive for lying, whos benefiting, how are they planting this fake information and for what purpose? How are they avoiding being caught, etc. |
|
|
|
|
Your whole jury scenario has literally happened a billion times already. A courtroom of your peers in a scientific field are other doctors that look at the same images and evidence and go, oh yeah yep thats what that is right there. My specialty isn't in the medical field, none of my posts have been about saying I am the absolute authority on the matter and you shall bend to my whim. What I am confident enough about is the scientific process and peer review procedures. They are absolutely more brutal and stringent than you could possibly imagine. You think a jury of random people would do a better job than a half of a million medical researchers with egos the size of the planet that would love a chance to say, excuse me but you're wrong. Science is brutal, despite what you see on those fake 100 person trials that are reported daily on the news, real scientists will leave 0 doubt with anything they come to a conclusion on before saying a single word to anyone. When they are wrong is when they are working on an incorrect assumption, and thats when the thousand egos jump in ready to crush their mistakes. If their mistakes aren't understandable, they've lost funding, future jobs, etc. You're literally betting your life with each paper your publish. You're allowed to make mistakes, but not make mistakes due to negligence or malintent.
People specialize for a reason. A single human can't live long enough to learn everything. It doesn't matter if you don't understand how trivial it is for someone who knows what they're doing to identify 50 strains of flu as easily as you could point out different models of cars on the road. It'll take me four years to properly explain to you why light from the sun takes 30,000 years to reach our happy little planet. It'd take X number of years for a medical professional to give you a proper answer on why they came to the conclusions they came to. It'll take an electrician X years to explain to a medical professional why their power is out. I dont let electricians advise me on Covid, and I don't let medical professionals advise me on home electrical codes. You either trust what they come together as a group to come up with or shut up and become a medical professional yourself that can put them in their place when they make mistakes properly.
|
|
|
|
|
I dont think anyone has got the physical checks yet. If I'm not mistaken, two days ago was the first batch of payments and that was only to people who had direct deposit setup (money sent directly to bank, no mailed physical check).
|
|
|
|
The black community is predisposed to certain health conditions. It's not that the virus is "racist", anyone with the health conditions that African Americans commonly have is at risk so it isn't dependent on race. Certain cities in the U.S, New Orleans comes to mind, have people with issues related to hypertension, obesity, high blood pressure, heart disease, ect. It's not racist to point this out because socioeconomic factors that contribute to this, not race. Tony Fauci was on national TV saying the exact same thing and so was the Surgeon General Jerome Adams who's black himself.
Disease likes crowded urban and lower income areas. Lower income also typically means less likely to seek preventative medical treatment, in addition to what Gyfts mentioned. One hypothesis besides the socioeconomic factor (unhealthy foods are cheaper) is that certain conditions such as the water retention that comes along with some health conditions mentioned may have increased survival rates on slave ships that came across to North America. This would leave their ancestors more genetically aligned for conditions that increase corona virus fatalities. |
|
|
|
Del Bigtree isn't a doctor, hes a TV producer. I'll also pass on having the producers of Grey's Anatomy interpret my MRIs. I get the whole lets question authority, look for probable cause, motives, etc thing, but that isn't really applicable here. Do I believe that CNN would report something inaccurate and cause a panic for the sake of ratings? Absolutely. Would the CDC or other real medical institutions? No... they're working harder for less pay as a result. While I can appreciate the expertise you've accumulated observing the population of your local walmart, I suppose I have a few questions regarding your scientific process that lead you to the conclusions you've come to. What has been the exposure in your area so far? If you're in American Samoa your empirical study may be less meaningful than if you were in Ohio. How do you know that no one in that Walmart is sick? Have you observed them for 14 days, screening them for symptoms, and recorded the results? The 94% / 99% thing is absolute nonsense, the numbers do not make any realistic sense. New York alone has had 11,000 Corona virus deaths, meaning about 10500 were terminally ill to begin with? in 2017 155,000 people died in New York of all causes. Old age, heart disease, cancer, etc. https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/2017/#mortin 2016 154,000 people died in New York of all causes. https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/2016/table31a.htmin 2015 154,000 people as well https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/2015/table31a.htmCorona virus alone in less than 2 months has made up 7% of the state's yearly deaths. Yet 94% of those that die are terminally ill right? I have not had anyone that I know personally die from covid, but I also don't know anyone that has personally died in a house fire, and while I'm suspicious that house fires don't actually exist, I'm not ready to call them myths just yet. I've an ER nurse neighbor and my own personal doctors confirming what all of the liars and amateurs are. Find your own nurse neighbors and doctors if you don't want to listen to main stream media. Your question of asking if the shutdowns are worthwhile, and comparing it to the 2017-2018 flu is valid. I bet you could do some modeling and predict some number of deaths that will occur due to economic decline. The direction you're heading is one of "which sources do we trust" which isn't a great direction to go considering your sources for the 2017-2018 flu statistics you're using to support your idea are the same. Don't make this a crazy thread, keep at finding the actual cost of the shutdown. |
|
|
|
Are you another one of these jokers who don't look at the news, and have to have everything spoon-fed to them before they can understand any of it? Nope, I'm one of the jokers that has worked with people in the world's leading medical facility (Johns Hopkins), have personally devoted more than half of my life to the pursuit of higher science, and know the time and effort spent by the liars and amateurs that are trying to get us through this. We were able to chat earlier about comparing the 2017-2018 flu and whether the hysteria and shutdown was worth it, but its tough to have any real discussion when you can make up your own information and disregard what most people would consider authorities on a subject with a question authority kick. The CDC were the ones who said 80,000 died from the 2017-2018 flu, how do we know it wasn't actually 7 and that corona virus is 3700x worse if we're going to pick and choose reliable sources. But you're right, it makes more sense to believe you with your extensive medical background, strong understanding of math, and physically impossible statistics that come from nowhere. I could happily find you the financial burden the government takes on when someone requires extensive medical care and or dies and quantify people's lives with dollars to show just how many lives are worth the US economy, but I feel like it might be a waste of time. |
|
|
|
I go to the store looking for an item. I can’t find it. I call one of the stockers over, and he goes right to it and says, “Here it is.” Guess what. It was right where I was looking, but I didn't see it. It can happen to anyone. So don't feel bad. The experts said a bunch of CV deaths in Italy. They said a bunch of CV deaths in the States. Then we found out that the testing was flawed, and that 99% of the deaths in Italy were going to die from something else anyway, and 94% in the USA. "Oh but this. Oh, but that." The experts lied, or they weren't experts. So get over the fact that we don't have experts for this, or else we have a bunch of liars. I'm curious about your 99% were going to die anyway claim, but I guess I really don't care because thats absolute nonsense. So the many thousands of people that have devoted their lives to medicine have all corroborated this elaborate hoax without incentive. I suppose its sort of like that time Firemen decided to convince people fires were real for job security. I honestly hope that you are able to remain so blissfully ignorant about the whole situation, and don't end up having to rely on one of those liars to try to keep you alive. |
|
|
|
Look outside your imagination. Nobody has any proof that there is more than a bunch of talk that is not based in fact. I don't get this whole, "lets not listen to the experts" thing. Letting a mechanic do your dental work while your McDonalds fry cook does your taxes is sort of counter intuitive. The medical tech earning $40k/year and living in a tent to keep their family from exposure I'm sure is lying about what they're seeing to support the... pay cuts they're receiving nationwide. Doctors don't get a bonus check for working people up into a frenzy, they have absolutely nothing to gain out of this so theres no motive for them to lie. |
|
|
|
Good point! But we don't know that. Remember that in the great Spanish flu 1918-1920, when there was no more room for the sick indoors, they housed them in tents, outside. The outside people were those who recovered easier and better. It's all a guess that the rules for Covid-19 protection are doing any good. They might be exactly the thing that is making CV worse. If the media hadn't hyped CV, and there were no pandemic action at all, the deaths and illnesses might be way lower that 2017-18. Obviously, we can't test both ways. I'd be curious as to where you found statistics on recovery rates of people outdoors versus indoors, but lets assume its true. Its not a guess that the rules for Covid19 protection are helping, we come to understandings of something by studying it and drawing conclusions. We apply those conclusions, and watch for a result. Putting a cork in your ass does not have the same effect on your health as washing your hands, and there are good reasons that we come to that conclusion. We actually knew about the concept of social distancing and measures that are in place now during the 1918 flu, and we have complete data that we can look back at in the same way we can look back at the 2017-2018 flu to compare cities where strict measures were put in place and where they weren't. I'll let you look it up if you are interested so you can pick your source of choice. |
|
|
|
Exactly! Do what you want. Lots of people stay home when they feel sick. But it isn't worth shutting the economy down for something that wouldn't have been any more disastrous than 2017-2018. Stay at work so that the real disaster is avoided. My point was more that you're comparing the end result and discarding what got us to that point. There could have been 20 million tiger deaths on 4/12/2020 (it was a really big city) had they not stayed indoors while awaiting their capture. Following health professional's guidelines and seeing a positive result is the expected result, it doesn't mean that everything would have been fine if we ignore them. The 2017-2018 flu has at this moment killed more people than corona virus in the US correct. Its also killed more people than every single war that has not yet happened including World War 3, 4, and 5 combined. I'll be happy to raise a glass and toast with you when the total death count of corona virus stays below that of the 2017-2018 flu. I know we're kind of shifting topics around a bit, but one of the bigger concerns is covid19's incubation period to your point. You're contagious before you feel sick and stay home. You get the flu and in a day or two you feel like hell and are on your couch eating soup. Covid19 you can be out for a jog kissing everyone you pass by on the lips for a week before you get any symptoms, if you get any symptoms at all. There are people going in for imaging after car crashes and finding covid19 related lung damage although they have no symptoms. The economy is important, but its easier to go back to your job in a month if you're not dead, or in a better far more likely scenario after you've incurred a lifetime of crippling hospital debt. |
|
|
|
Are you missing the second part of the OP The numbers were wrong from the beginning. So, more than likely, people are becoming more sick from lack of exercise, just sitting around at home. Fourteen days is standard for many colds and influenza. The fact that Fauci is back-watering shows that there is a misunderstanding in the whole pandemic. It might not even be a pandemic at all. 4/11/2020: Warning Citizens! The local zoo has had 20 tigers escape, they mauled their handlers and have exhibited aggression to humans in the past, please stay indoors! 4/12/2020: Thank you for staying indoors, the tigers have been captured. 4/13/2020: So you're telling me that there were 0 tiger fatalities? What a rip off, its like we didn't need to stay indoors at all. |
|
|
|
The thing that you are missing is, when people don't find the product they want at one Walmart, they travel to the rest of them. Right, and thats why its unfortunate that we needed mandated shutdowns and stay at home orders. The government had to step in and say cut that out because people either weren't smart enough or just didn't care enough to manage a potential threat to themselves and others. Keep in mind we're also comparing numbers looking back on a year versus from the very start of it. Corona virus isn't a game of Russian roulette where you instantly have it or you dont and then it kills you immediately or leaves you unharmed. I'm fairly confident I can say that no one that contracted Corona virus yesterday, or even the day prior is dead today because of it. The margin of safety 14 day period which is typically the longest incubation period for a corona virus means that everything that we're looking at statistics wise today is roughly 14 days behind the actual situation. ~14 days from now the number infected and the death rate will be an indication of what happened today. I'll point out that thats a bit misleading as it can incubate and start having ill effects before 14 days, but its a reasonable figure for the sake of example. |
|
|
|
Walmart workers aren't getting any sicker than usual, even though many don't wear masks, and more people are visiting them more often to see if they have some TP, etc., in yet. I doubt you'd be able to find the numbers of illness in the Walmart employee demographic to analyze what it means. One could also say the number of visits to the store are down significantly (that data is available), Walmart workers may not be wearing masks (though they are now I believe) but their customers are and to what extent thats helping, etc. Walmart workers with health concerns during a regular flu season can get a flu shot rather than hole up in their houses waiting for it to pass. |
|
|
|
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018/archive.htmCDC estimates that the burden of illness during the 2017–2018 season was also high with an estimated 48.8 million people getting sick with influenza, 22.7 million people going to a health care provider, 959,000 hospitalizations, and 79,400 deaths from influenza (Table 1). The number of cases of influenza-associated illness that occurred last season was the highest since the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, when an estimated 60 million people were sick with influenza (6).
The 2017–2018 influenza season was additionally atypical in that it was severe for all ages of the population (5). The burden of influenza and the rates of influenza-associated hospitalization are generally higher for the very young and the very old, and while this was also true during the 2017–2018 season, rates of hospitalization in all age groups were the highest seasonal rates seen since hospital-based surveillance was expanded in 2005 to include all ages (Table 2). This translated into an estimated 11.5 million cases of influenza in children, 30 million cases of influenza in working age adults (aged 18-64 years), and more than 7.3 million cases in adults aged 65 years and older. So we break that down over a year, and we get 80,000 killed out of 48.8 million infected. We're currently at 1/3rd of the fatalities with 81 times fewer cases in 1/10th of the time span. In addition, theres no vaccine so the 20 year olds with asthma or nearly any typically fairly benign ailment that normally get a flu shot to completely avoid the chance of hospitalization from the flu don't have that option this time around. Fauci revising from 240k to 60k or however many predicted deaths is a good thing... that doesn't mean the shutdowns weren't warranted, that means they're working. I hope the figures drop even further and its fuel for the people who think this was a waste of time, as ignorance is a luxury only afforded to those that have it good.
|
|
|
|
|
Hey guys, just figured I'd check by here to see if anyone was interested in selling me a $300 Sur La Table gift card for BTC. I'd sift through high discount deals on paxful or similar gift card sites, but I'd rather just deal with a reputable member here and not have to worry about chargebacks or buying a giftcard scammed off of someone's grandmother by a fake IRS robocall.
*edit*
Found what I was after from Williams Sonoma
|
|
|
|
|
As someone who is not the parent of a 6 year old kid that has to love their kids artwork for support, I have to say they're rather good. I'd certainly encourage their talent if they enjoy drawing.
|
|
|
|
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, our healthcare system is absolute garbage. Theres so much stupid legal red tape and profiteering at the expense of citizens. Something is absolutely wrong when you compare all of the countries in the world and see plenty with very comparable healthcare standards at 1/10th the cost where the government isn't footing the bill, its just between the patient and the hospital which charges a fair amount to compensate their staff and equipment. I have a friend who is a young veterinarian that ended up with a lifetime of medical debt for a 3 day visit for admittedly a fairly serious surgery, but on the other hand she had performed the same operation on horses for 1/20th the cost. While horses can't sue you for malpractice if something goes wrong, you still stand the risk of getting kicked in the head so that should count for something. I have a fully functioning lab that has home built equipment on par with functionality on par with big pharmaceutical companies. I use X-Ray spectroscopy to verify crystalline spacing at the atomic level to verify that what I've synthesized is what it should be. Even still, I'm still not comfortable giving anything I make to humans as I can't be 100% certain about purity. Some legal red tape is there for a reason, and some of it is nonsense. No one seems to be willing to go case by case and evaluate what makes sense to stay on the books from a human safety standpoint, and what was the result of some lobbiest finding out a congressman had an affair and extorting them into getting something passed. |
|
|
|
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-update-fda-and-ftc-warn-seven-companies-selling-fraudulent-products-claim-treat-orThe FDA and FTC jointly issued warning letters to Vital Silver, Quinessence Aromatherapy Ltd., Xephyr, LLC doing business as N-Ergetics, GuruNanda, LLC, Vivify Holistic Clinic, Herbal Amy LLC, and The Jim Bakker Show. The products cited in these warning letters are teas, essential oils, tinctures and colloidal silver. The FDA has previously warned that colloidal silver is not safe or effective for treating any disease or condition. The FDA and FTC requested companies respond in 48 hours describing the specific steps they have taken to correct the violations. Companies that sell products that fraudulently claim to prevent, treat or cure COVID-19 may be subject to legal action, including but not limited to seizure or injunction.
|
|
|
|
We need government to drop regulations for any small person/business to make any products, and provide any services. If this were the case, small product producers would have to make quality, or people will go somewhere else. The result would be that business could get back to normal. I've been trying to make epinephrine and insulin in my back yard, and they've been telling me no  In addition, I got my nuclear reactor shut down years ago while I was still building it. DHS' concern was more that I was using a local river for cooling, even though it was a closed loop system! Damn government. Congratulations! If you can do this as a small business, think of all the success millions of other small business people would have if government regs were gone! I know, I could produce 14 trillion joules at a cost of 0.68 cents per Kilowatt Hour. Epipens are $800 last I checked, and I can make my own for under $10 + time (and whatever an autoinjector costs) making insulin wasn't actually that profitable but it was interesting. The cost of doing it and not knowing what I was doing would be hundreds of millions of dollars at a minimum though, so I guess I kind of understand why there weren't thrilled about it. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
