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We would fork, and if our fork was better, Gavin's version would fade away. Everyone currently holding Bitcoins has an incentive to keep the rules consistent.
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Guys, the questions must be "smart and relevant" and some questions just don't fit the profile. keep trying. The topic is forex trading with brokers that accept liberty reserve.
If it looks like a ponzi scheme to you then please do more research on forex.
Remember: Smart and relevant.
Please forgive my stupid irrelevance.  You're saying we should participate in your proprietary investment plan, which has excellent initial returns. But we don't know exactly what your program does, and all questions regarding your identity and previous claims are off-topic. I appreciate the research advice, but I'm not doubting anything you are saying about forex itself. I'm doubting you personally. I really don't want this to come across as a personal attack, you seem nice, but anyone making claims like these should be subject to the same scrutiny. |
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Note: The system has been running for 7 days since September 09, 2011. It already reached 16% profit. My profit goal was reached in only 1 week vs the 4 week period.
Any questions?
Do you see how to an outside observer this might look exactly like a Ponzi scheme? |
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Global warming, if it is in fact a problem and being caused by human activity, is a tragedy of the commons that can only be dealt with by government. The problem is that a collection of governments is no different than a collection of people: there is nothing to enforce compliance among them to a plan them without a higher authority.
The minarchic variant of libertarianism accepts the legitimacy of government action to prevent destruction of the commons, so in this sense is no different than how other political ideologies would deal with global warming.
Tragedy of the commons? Get rid of the commons. Make everything privately owned. Problem solved. I CLAIM ALL AIR IN THE NAME OF EXPLODICLE! |
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Looks really cool! I just registered and my coins are on their way right now.  I'm a huge fan of Bitcoin prediction markets in general, so if there's anything I can do to help, PM me or post here! |
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I don't ignore anyone. I might get frustrated with you, but you only need one brilliant post to get on my good side.  |
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Times like this, I'm glad Satoshi is gone and hope he never comes back.
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Using taxes to engineer society in this way requires a government that can make these decisions rationally. I have little hope that such a thing is likely to ever exist.
There is hope: Futarchy. Take for example this global warming debate. Let us create prediction markets for global temperature, contingent on global emissions levels. People will bet on these markets, and based on these predictions governments could determine a transparently optimized emissions cap. If global warming really is a myth, then on average the conservatives here would make money AND raise the cap so high as to be irrelevant. The problem, up until now, is that long-term bets require you hand over inflating currency so rational people would rarely use them. Why invest in negative-sum markets? Bitcoin helps with this since eventually it will appreciate in value as quickly as the Bitcoin economy growth, making savings (and bets) more attractive. |
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The girl with 50 gp is a bad example because that would essentially be a selective head tax, which are generally frowned upon by society at large. Taxing some gold while she engages in state-protected commerce is a whole different story; she never agreed to the tax, but her purchases are partially enabled by the people around her and she was aware of local taxes when she decided to spend her gold there. So I'd consider the arbitrary seizure of her gold to be far worse than most real-life taxes.
I can give 50 gp to my neighbor right now. You taxing me didn't enable me to do so. That's a non sequitur. If I want to acquire personal security or voluntarily pay into a system that protects my rights, I don't have a problem with that. Taxes are not voluntary. And even if I were aware that taxes in my locale existed, still doesn't justify its application. I've had robbers in my neighborhood too, but that doesn't justify theft does it? In the event you just give 50 gp to your neighbor, that's just a gift, and we're in agreement. I can't think of an ethical justification for gift taxes. In the event you wish to engage in a deal, you have to pay a transaction cost: A) pay in the form of % chance you will be cheated/robbed B) pay a third party to meditate in the event of a dispute/fight If you guys can actually build a society where people can easily make this choice for everyday business, I'm in. I'm willing to help achieve it with peaceful means like cryptocurrency. Heck, I'd even be willing to try private courts if someone proposed it where I live. But until I see proof that it actually works, making people pay for the courts necessitated by their commerce seems legit. |
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A State is the embodiment of a society; all your rights and freedoms are provided by the state.
I disagree with that point. Human beings already have universal rights, and most states protect them. But no state can grant or take away your rights; only respect or abuse them. That being said I still agree with your central thesis. Laws are just societal norms that have put down on paper. I wouldn't go so far as to argue for/against strong property rights either, although some people on this forum might. The girl with 50 gp is a bad example because that would essentially be a selective head tax, which are generally frowned upon by society at large. Taxing some gold while she engages in state-protected commerce is a whole different story; she never agreed to the tax, but her purchases are partially enabled by the people around her and she was aware of local taxes when she decided to spend her gold there. So I'd consider the arbitrary seizure of her gold to be far worse than most real-life taxes. |
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I've asked this on a couple other threads, but I haven't yet seen an explanation: why do the wallets need to be operated by a participant in the anonymity scheme? If you used existing online wallet services, your coins would be mixed with those belonging to thousands of other uninvolved people. This would bootstrap off currently more popular services and look like normal commerce to an outside observer.
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If you like socialized health care, why have it on a federal level instead of at the state level?
Cablepair: didn't Jesus say to give your OWN money to the poor? Fiscal conservatism is not incompatible with Christianity. And who is saying we should allow corporations to destroy the Earth? That's completely irrelevant and misrepresents your opposition.
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It's the same systemic bias lots of nerdy computer projects have. Please excuse the following potentially racist speculation: black people have more trouble acquiring the money, encouragement, and time to be a computer hobbyist. Bitcoin is still a luxury.
It's a problem. In fact, a group of people frequently abused by cops, voters, and regressive inflation taxes might have a lot to gain from Bitcoin. So what can we do to counter this bias?
A. Nothing. If/when Bitcoin goes mainstream, everyone will use it anyways.
B. Focus on projects which will benefit black people.
C. Inform blacks in your community about Bitcoin.
D. Donate Bitcoins or Bitcoin-related USD profits to black charities. That will get their attention! :-)
Probably more I didn't think of. The main benefit is of course that the internet is post-racial, and the efforts of racists here will inevitably fail. In not kept down, blacks will rise up.
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In my mind that first post was sung by Alanis Morissette.  |
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Its use is so wide spread already that it would be impossible for them to stamp out but government may use it to help them pay off their debts.
lol how hilarious would it be if the USA government and most citizens amassed huge debts in USD, then Bitcoin "wins" and the USD crashes, and they effortlessly pay off their now-meaningless debt. Ha HA shoulda lent in GOLD, bitches! Thanks for all the consumer goods! Yeah, real funny. Right up until the point that, at best, all the factories in China that make our consumer products are nationalized and retooled for products never intended to come to the US. What then, once your Iphone breaks? And that is assuming that they don't decide to invade to take whatever they can find in payment. Wars have started for much less. And there is no case in history wherein the national monetary system collapsing did not result in civil unrest or a civil war, or fascism. Be very careful what you wish for, young man. You might just get it. Sorry, I didn't mean to offend with my crude gallows humor. I agree with your analysis, but this wouldn't happen overnight - surely the powers that be would work something out in the meantime. |
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Getting an empty wallet wont help, unless the online wallet service automatically shuffles the sent and received coins with each other.
To simplify my question:
1. It costs 5% so why would somebody with 'clean' coins launder them?
2. If all the coins in the laundry are dirty, aren't you just receiving someone else's dirty coins? Do the laundries have some way to get 'fresh' coins?
3. Say you received coins that cops KNOW were used in a drug sale. Is "No officer, those are just the coins I received when I was laundering my coins... for fun...?" a valid defense? What could you say?
These services don't seem very wise to me...
Some services do shuffle coins. You can check which ones by sending them some money and watching to see if it gets moved into a larger wallet. The ones with cold storage should be more likely to mix coins. 1. Any desire for privacy. Buying porn, booze, dildos... 2. The exchanges would be a good source of fresh coins, since they do get shuffled there and have a large pool. Automated services are happy to accept "dirty" coins. 3. Lawyer up. You have a case, but by then you're already in trouble. IANAL but I think they would have to prove each crime (drugs and laundering), not just that you committed at least one of them. You should encrypt every wallet you want kept private. |
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If Magic The Gathering Online Exchange wins their case, will this even be considered an issue? They're trying (and some what succeeding) to convince the courts that BC is commodity and therefore not subject to currency laws.
Also, besides spreading your BC around, why would any one need to launder an anonymous currency?
It's not anonymous. If you don't intentionally cover your tracks, your transactions can be tracked. So if you want to buy something using Bitcoins from MtGox, the mafia (or whoever) could pressure MtGox into revealing your receiving address. From there they just follow the block chain. Forgive me, the two statements were meant to made separate from each other. How could you be found out if you didnt use an exchange like Magic The Gathering Online Exchange? Depends on how you obtain them and use them. Potential vulnerabilities include your mining pool operator giving up your IP address, vendors giving up your snail mail address, etc. Regarding the MtGox case, I still think these services are important even if it's legal. There are many reasons to want privacy besides breaking the law. |
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Its use is so wide spread already that it would be impossible for them to stamp out but government may use it to help them pay off their debts.
lol how hilarious would it be if the USA government and most citizens amassed huge debts in USD, then Bitcoin "wins" and the USD crashes, and they effortlessly pay off their now-meaningless debt. Ha HA shoulda lent in GOLD, bitches! Thanks for all the consumer goods! |
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If Magic The Gathering Online Exchange wins their case, will this even be considered an issue? They're trying (and some what succeeding) to convince the courts that BC is commodity and therefore not subject to currency laws.
Also, besides spreading your BC around, why would any one need to launder an anonymous currency?
It's not anonymous. If you don't intentionally cover your tracks, your transactions can be tracked. So if you want to buy something using Bitcoins from MtGox, the mafia (or whoever) could pressure MtGox into revealing your receiving address. From there they just follow the block chain. |
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Presumably the bitcoins moving though laundry services are (disproportate to the rest of BTC economy) ill-gotten gains. There is a reason they are willing to pay 5% right?
So, while these laundry services can disconnect you from bitcoins that were your own ill gotten gains, doesn't it probably link you to other crimes instead? Wouldn't just depositing your coins into fresh MtGox account (that you only connected to over TOR) and withdrawing them a few days later be much more effective, because you would be mixing them with legitimate coins (and for a smaller %)?
The laundry service doesn't need to use its own wallet. It could use several of the free online wallet services. The mybitcoin incident illustrated why one would need to use multiple. So long as some of the services along the "chain" preserve your privacy, you should remain anonymous. Kinda like Tor for money. All you are paying for is technical expertise and better strategies like random timed transfers and multiple branches. Right? Maybe I've missed something. |
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